Jonathan Pageau on icons, political dehumanisation, and befriending Jordan Peterson | The Sacred
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Jonathan Pageau is a French Canadian icon carver, public speaker and CZcamsr exploring the symbolic patterns that underlie our experience of the world.
He spoke about his journey to creating religious art, the different ways people on the political spectrum dehumanise each other, and his friendship with Jordan Peterson.
Read the full transcript here: www.theosthink...
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I never tire of hearing Jonathan's story
So grateful that I have found your podcast. Jonathan Pageau has had a profound influence on me as an artist and as a Christian. Being an artist in a Protestant church I felt that my faith and art were incompatible. I even declared to my wife that I would never paint for church. In the end God has his way and I now lead a small group of fellow creators in my Protestant church. It’s my prayer that the art we create reflects the mysteries of our beautiful, scandalous faith.
This is so wonderful to hear - and welcome!
It's 11:45 pm and i graduated med school today... it was a very long day and I can't watch this tonight but this will be what I'll watch during breakfast tomorrow! Thank you for uploading! Pageau’s work is always full of small golden nuggets.
Congratulations!
Regarding Jonathan's work: It's full of small golden nuggets until you realize that he lead you right inside a huge gold mine. At first it seems like he is dropping small insights, but with time you start to see that he actually paints a deeply coherent, magical and grand picture of the universe. 😄
Congratulations!
I love this guy. God bless you Jonathan.
Great guest, Jonathan always has profoundly deep and practical knowledge to share
Great episode! Please get him on again for an update interview!
Great conversation. Thank you Elizabeth and Jonathan. I have been following, watching and listening to Jonathan for a few years now. It has been and continues to be for my own quest a reawakening to the mythological, the symbolic and the imaginal. Jonathan has reintroduced the visual in iconography as 'windows to eternity/heaven' as a visual story telling framing for the patterns of reality and the sacred for me and my own journey with Christ.
Inspired by this I am attempting to return the use of Words back towards the sacred. In this endeavour I am much influenced by the likes of Martin Shaw, Malcolm Guite and Jon Moriarty. Thanks again!
You've got a new subscribers. It's great hearing an enthusiastic host who clearly is asking thoughfull questions she is genuinely interested in hearing the answers to. Jonathan is inspiring!!
🙏lovely 💚🧡thank you Elisabeth for asking Jonathan just those questions ..as I sense it .. he was able to clarify them in a different manner ..😻maybe with even one more degree of honestly than he might not always feel comfortable to do in the other dominatig male contexts.I really needed that degree of adjustment..
0:00 Introduction
2:27 What Is Sacred?
3:45 A: A form of participation in what is 1. Beyond you 2. Binds you. The Eucharist.
5:27 Johnathan Pageau
French from Quebec
1960-1970 Church emptied
Secular
Protestant Evangelicals convent to Orthodox Christianity ☦️
8:24 Creative Child, Artist from Very Young. Parents were Willing to learn.
9:36 Contemporary Art to Workshop to giving up to Discovering Beautiful Art.
13:34 Scripture
Light and Dark Side
Morality is downstream from Reality set in God
17:28 One of the problems I had was the Purpose of what I was doing.
18:25 Art is so fetishized. The Beauty of functional Art. Iconography.
20:20 Orthodox Church ⛪️
22:00 Giant Poem, Cosmic Dance.
23:07 Wife still generally Protestant, parents are intellectually curious.
26:52 How The World Exists, Truth.
27:50 Patterns, Waves, Magical Place. Fractals.
29:27 Winds of Change
Left Wing - Exhaustion
Right Wing - Crisis of Meaning
36:25 Goal Driven, Despondency.
37:52 Industrial Revolution 🏭
39:54 Public Space Women.
41:22 Call Out Evil without explosion 💥 42:40
Right Leaner: Dehumanize The Stranger
Left Leaner: Dehumanize Tradition
*Post-Talk Assessment*
46:44 Straight Talk
Eucharist
Church
Transcendent Meeting Mundane
Great interview. New to the channel, but I absolutely love Jonathan. In this realm, he is a true and honest genius. Thanks for shining a light
Could you please reach out to Paul Vanderklay he’s had an on going conversation with Jonathan Pageau. I think he can bring something fresh to your ongoing conversation sent the sacred. Great convo thank you.
The left AND the right dehumanize people. Yes exactly. It’s so sad. Why are we like this?
Bravo. Great conversation with Jonathan Pageau. Authentic and thoughtful. Thank you.
Honestly, I say it as an old woman, I always found men's conversations (not the subjects on sports, cars though! )very interesting.....
Brilliant, thank you so much for this conversation Elizabeth.
Excellent interview questions. I enjoyed your conversation with Jonathan Pageau.
Fantastic interview, Elizabeth. You have a high quality of articulation that appreciates the medium. Thank you!
First time on this channel, still at the intro, but I really like this question: "what is sacred to you?"
It seems like a question that would either get you into a real conversation with anyone, or otherwise get them to think about this for perhaps the first time.
thoroughly enjoyed this one
First time listening to this podcast. Fantastic and the conversation is so calming. So good.
Great conversation.
Great interview. Jonathan is sharp as always :)!
Thanks for the interview. Good stuff
I think it's important to note that at 20:46 he's not calling the Syrian and Coptic churches Nestorian, but that those schisms created the Coptic, Syrian, and Nestorian churches.
Hi Elizabeth. I have only just discovered your podcast although I have been aware of, and respected, your work for 🎉some time. I am an ageing Anglican parish priest nearing retirement and in the last few years have begun to have a number of conversations with young people (that's anyone under the age of 40 to me) about questions related to the sacred. Young adults are being baptised in my Worcestershire parishes quite regularly and I will run a confirmation group in the new year for young teenagers a number of whom have volunteered themselves for this (I have had the conversations with them as well) and we are classic conservative country parishes in our styles of worship etc.
I feel that there is something in the wind that has changed. I am going to retire in the coming year because I find the task of being a parish priest quite exhausting. The institution has big problems. But I hope to be priestly in the sense of doing lots of holy listening as I feel you do here.
Just one thing on connecting. Due to some failures in technology I have more or less dropped out of social media and really do not miss it. WhatsApp groups with friends and family are an exception and I do a lot of CZcams listening. I don't know if you have reflected on this in your work and in your wish to engender good public conversations.
I really enjoyed that.
Thank you
Great interview! Jonathan's framing of the human experience as inherently participatory might be the entry-way into revelatory knowledge. That is, to understand reality, we can't be an objective viewpoint from the outside a la material reductionism. We are embedded in reality and therefore participating actors in the whole cascading sequence of causality. What does the entire picture of causality look like? That's a pretty large and fundamental category! But it can exist as a perceivable global event. What is the highest category, that encompasses all? It's most high, and most "mundane".
Dear Elizabeth, Thank you very much for you podcast. I agree that there is a lack of female voices in this general discussion. This is a massive problem for men too. What "men" desperately needs is a more specific female voice that makes sense to us. Women can not blame us for this astronomical absence: "And this kind of constellation of thinkers who are trying to recapture or reconnect with a more traditionalist or conservative or post-liberal set of ideas, which are mainly men, which I genuinely find fascinating. I also think there are edges of that which I find very troubling and very contemptuous and very excluding and exclusive."
“….we totally threw the Mother of God out the window…”
and the feminine with it…..
There needs to be an in-depth conversation.
Did anybody catch the name and title of the book about the monk mentioned by Jonathan
Laurus by Eugene Vodoladzkin
@@gabimartens799 thank you!!❤️
14:15 "Morality is downstream from what Christianity really is."
49:06 "[Christianity] is downstream from morality."
Oh dear. Maybe you misspoke, but swapping them around like that creates a very, very different statement.
What’s the song in the beginning?
If you're looking for female voices in this sphere, check out Annie Crawford.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Jonathan’s one liners makes women grab their pens...noted...
Watching this when you guys are at 666 subscribers just saying
Perhaps a sign you should check out Jonathan Pageau's video on the symbolism of 666 🙂
@@MrZadokthePriest I'm subbed to Jonathan and love his video on the symbolism of 666. It's why I had to make a comment on the video lol