Your D&D Prep Question is Wrong
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2020
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"prepare situations not plots" -The Alexandrian, a really good blog about D&D stuff and 5e
TRUTH! World building instead of story crafting is the best GM prep. Run the simulation and let the players create the story.
I know something that has helped my dming immensely is having a set calendar, events WILL happen in the world without player intervention. Depending on where they are, they may not even hear about something big for a couple days. Travelers are going to be a great source of information and I want to have a use for taverns other than 'you eat and you sleep'.
Totally agree. The players should be where the camera is, not the center of the universe. Having a living world independent of them is so important. I love your tales at the inn idea, very cool.
I just got done playing in a friend’s mini-campaign of Electric Bastionland last week. He sent out a survey about what we liked or disliked. I basically told him what you covered here. There was a complex mystery of an NPC family tragedy at the heart of what should have been a simple mission to steal an object from a dead part of the city in order to pay off our debts. However, we kept getting stuck in dialogue scenes that felt like obligatory exposition to get us to the next scene. There was some point-crawl aspects to the adventure, but in the end, all points seemed to be leading to one end point.
This is something he and I have talked about for years. He’s coming around, but slowly. A couple of years ago I remember him complaining about a judge in a DCC game not giving them any direction about where to go, what to do. I told him his PC is supposed to go looking for the adventure based on what he wants, ask around town for rumors, see why no one goes in that forest, etc. Old school play assumes players are self-directed and self-motivated. Recently he’s been playing in a Curse of Strahd campaign and found it terribly railroad-y though so I have hope. It’s just when he’s behind the screen he still seems to have the urge to provide plot resolution.
Also, I agree with Hedgehobbit above. A beginning ref doesn’t need to map and detail whole continents and historical timelines. They just need to scratch out a small area map with a couple towns, various wilderness areas, three decent-sized adventure locations, a dozen NPCs (with known exploitable motives), some random encounter tables for wilderness, city, and dungeons, 2-3 factions, and a healthy rumor table. It takes a little bit of (enjoyable) work, but once it’s set up you’re golden. The setting should reveal itself in the equipment lists, the treasure found, and the curated monsters discovered.
Thanks for finally making this. I'd enjoy more videos about your methodology for putting together a campaign and essential choices you need to make building a world.
The game I'm running is morphing along with the players and what they do
I bought Cults of Chaos, I recommend it, it's good
Thanks!
I always start with a map and then I populate the world with random dungeons and a few quest lines then I use things like the Deck of Encounters or Book of Challenges to give me random adventures to fill in any space I might have missed. Doing it like this allows me to track events and gives enough randomness to make the world feel real without overloading me with having to make a ton of adventures. Top all this off with a load of random encounter charts for whatever environment your players might find themselves in and you're set. After all that I wing it hard mode and let my characters drive the story. The best part about allowing your characters to drive the narrative is they feel really smart when they come up with something and you then weave that into the story plus it takes some of the load off your shoulders.
Totalmente de acuerdo. Si tienes una historia estupenda que contar escribe relatos. Y si quieres ponerte intenso interpretando un papel, únete a un grupo de teatro. En ambos casos estás desperdiciando tu inquietud artística jugando a rol.
Además, la “novela” que pueda surgir de n cerebros improvisando cada uno hacia una dirección diferente, suele acabar en una basura simplona llena de lugares comunes y tópicos, sin ningún interés.
Give the stories a place to live and they will.
Here's a real D&D story:
"Hahahaha, you rolled three 1's in a row. Let's toast Jim's cursed elf!"
"Jim's cursed elf!"
(drinks beer while ordering a burger)
I'm Co-DMing a West Marches (wilderness exploration sandbox) campaign and I had to explain to one of my fellow DMs for his first session running in it he shouldn't have a fully-fledged adventure planned out and should rely on random encounters and potential landmarks that the players can find based on where they decide to go. The session he ran went well but he still has a bit to go; he's been influenced too much by CR.
This is great as long as the players answer the call to adventure and engage with the world. I am not here to play Tavern Simulator.
Tavern simulator might not be fun for e levels but it sure is fun for a breather or two
I came here for Meatball and learned some useful stuff in the process.
Great vid mate enjoyed this
Despite lack of cats.
Did you not watch the video to the end?
@@RPGPundit I was gonna pass on this one without cats... Glad you saved for me! (just kidding, I watch all your videos, Pundit, the cats are just bonuses)
I just have great to see meatball
And give my best to Chungus!!!
So adventure modules should really be more like tiny setting books.
Arent all the best ones ?
@@ronniejdio9411 I've just recently started DMing so I never looked at published adventure modules in detail. Can you recommend any good ones along the lines of what Pundit is saying?
@@Dyrnwyn well his books are great. But everything I love is OLD asf
Dungeon magazine did a top 100 and modules list but below are my personal.fav but with any adventure homebrew it into you campaign
Keep on the borderlands
Slave pits of the under city and the whole slavers series even though the finale sucks
Master of the desert nomads and its sequel temple of death
The descent into the depths of the earth / vault of the drow/ and the epic conclusion which could literally be a full campaign on it's own queen of the demon web pits
Another full campaign in it's own right is lost caverns of tsjocanth
CZcams channels cover some of the mythology of these modules and the villians within and add immeasurable depth and detail you wont get in the older module but can add with just a few notes.
And you can tweet each one to be more custom for your campaign. The you tube dungeon craft channel does a full series in tweaking the keep on the borderlands and it makes the module exciting even for ppl who have played for 30+ years.
Noooo! Bring back the droopy tripod! It had more "character" than a storybook campaign.
I thought he was just leaning the phone against a teakettle or something...
An interesting debate. I feel that a DM can be a storyteller, with some limitations. The first being that players have equal (or greater) agency than the DM. As you say, the main role of the DM is to create a world in which the group experiences the fun of play. The PCs are the heroes and set the agenda, though initially at a low level. Through play they rise to importance. A module can have story elements but should mainly focus on sandbox and potential, not scripted events and walls of text to read.
But there's a trap there. The Players can't possibly have equal or greater agency than the GM, if the GM is a "Storyteller", unless the players STOP BEING PLAYERS and start getting to decide things beyond what their character does in the world. If they start getting to edit or change the world as players, on the meta level, making things up that the GM is forced to agree to.
At that point, you are NOT playing an RPG anymore. Instead, you're engaging "storygaming". Which is an entirely different hobby, and also a kind of cultural terrorism.
Because I mean, with the "GM as Storyteller" model there are two options: Either the player characters can only get to change things in-character that the GM ALLOWS them to change, or the players can OVERRULE the GM's story and change things whether or not he wanted to. The former is just a Railroad With Illusionism. The latter is Storygaming and thus NOT AN RPG. Also, an abomination against all western civilization.
@@RPGPundit as always an interesting and series of insightful comments. I particularly liked your take on the illusion of player power. I feel there is space for a DM to come up with a sandbox and some high level story, for example orc invasion, king assassination, realm in peril....whilst giving some control to players at a lower level. I do not advocate a detailed multi page novel. Sitting through a six hour session in which the dm waffles on with their story for over four hours is awful. Of course the majority of play should be emergent from the PCs interacting with the sandbox. Player agency is the ability to decide where to go, what to do. The Dm responding to the players comments. On the fly seat of your pants sessions are better than scripted adventures. I think we are actually mostly in agreement....although maybe my soul has been placed in peril by reading indy small press RPGs
What are the minimum things you need to make something on par with Lion & Dragon? Besides some NPC and factions. I tend to not know how to limit my scope and get into a endless worldbuilding trap. Do you have any advice for this?
I don't agree with this, there is nothing wrong with running planned adventures as long as your players are okay with that, it all depends on the group that's playing together, there isn't one way to run a game, there are as many ways to run a game as there are groups of people playing.
I made this book, listen, and memorize these novel things, and play my heroes. _KNOW MY FUNNY NAMES_
It seems like this is a long-winded way to say that rail-roading is bad. Obviously D&D has had scenarios from the beginning which were stories which were meant to be followed to some degree. For my part, I have noticed that at least the first generation of "story-games" allow some leeway in how much of the "story" is crafted by players and the GM. It gets harder and harder to follow these debates when it seems to just be more based on politics than the games themselves, and that observation goes for both sides. Now excuse me, I'm gonna go play Lion and Dragon *and* Dungeon World.
I think what he is saying is not just that railroading is bad, but the "grand story" style prep technique leads to railroading - which, yes, is bad (or, at least, boring to any good player).
my players level indicate how much agency they have in the living world in my mind, and the events more than likely happen. so 1st level are very powerful with a 1% chance of influencing the monarchy and a 20th level character has a 20% chance of influencing the vote of the board of rulers. 10th level is very powerful, not just as a character, but also as influencer of kingdom happenings--from trend setting to sports teams names
The reality of the situation is that the DM doesn't need to know more about the game world than the players. And the players only need to know what they can see during the game. It's a pointless waste of time to develop a complex world before play begins. As much of that information will never be used, or worse, will end up being something other than what the players would prefer.
For example, if a DM creates a world full of complex court intrigue and the players have no interest in those sort of things, then all that work will be wasted. Better to wait a few sessions and see what the players like before creating the game world. And only create the world around the players as the players branch out to explore a wider area.
Sounds like you have small minded players, which is unfortunate, because you sound like a great DM
@@jim4mayor1 My #1 goal in RPGs is to start playing as soon as possible. If the DM can avoid any unnecessary work before the first session then that will help with this. It's just more efficient to put off setting design as long as possible, when you have a better feel for how the actual campaign is going and what your players prefer.
Well, it is possible to create only a small part of the world, where the PCs will be based, and then grow from that as necessary. That works better in certain types of settings than others. Usually, for that to work very well, the area they start in has to be fairly marginal, away from larger events having a big or immediate impact, so that's also something to think about.
Either way, you have to end up doing the work. You're right that you shouldn't emphasize too much on making a bunch of lore that will never impact your game, but creating a certain amount of social, political and historical context in your world is also something that can be mined in unexpected ways as the campaign progresses.
@@RPGPundit nothing brings a party into intrigue with the court like sending the Captain of the Queens Guard and all his men along with the court wizard to "invite" them to an early brunch with her majesty to discuss matters of state.
More than one way to skin a Meatball! :-)
Meh. Each gaming group can decide the style of play that fits them best. Some players enjoy immersing themselves in a narrative crafted in advance by their GM. If that works for them and they're having fun, great. If another group wants a true sandbox where the players completely drive the story, awesome. Either way, if everyone's having a good time no one has the right to tell them that they're doing it "wrong".
This is ok with new players to a certain extent. Once they find their own way though it's time to get out of the way.
Thats what i cant stand about the 5th edition huge modules..The are very railraody and basically are a large novel for the Dm and players to read..I cant stand those types of adventures..RPGs should be sandbox worlds where the players can run around in and the Dm just sets the rules and the story happens organically..If the players refuse to go on the adventure the Dm has to trick them or force them to follow along ...Wizards should of made packs of various things .Like, a city and area ..castle and dungeon etc that the Dm can plug into their world and expand upon..The true enjoyement of DnD is to live out a fantasy persona that makes their own decisions and have fun exploring the world and all it has to offer not spending huge amount of time in the Dms novel just basically watching what happens and rolling a few times
In my experience Sandboxes only work with excellent Players, something that is about as rare, if not more so then good DMs, contrary to popular belief. I like to run a sandbox game, with overarching forces that manipulate the world. You usually get one, maybe two, PC's that will take initiative and alter your world. Those people should be valued. But in a vacuum I agree with you completely. As a DM I love being challenged!
The trick is to insert multiple threads, big and small. Some rumours and talk lead to either unimportant red herrings, suitable jobs to keep the money flowing, or awesome secrets which shake the very foundations of the kingdom.. Let the players follow whatever thread they want. Since NPCs may oppose their wishes, there will be conflict so set up some combat stats ahead of time at an appropriate level: a few ineffectual "mall cops", more substantial goons, or a band of seasoned mercenaries or monsters. Allow your threads (and the opponents) to be insertable regardless of the kingdom or the terrain.
There is nothing wrong with running the modules, as long as everybody is on board with it, if your players agree to playing the module then they have to put in some effort into making characters that will go on that adventure, if your players aren't into that then you probably shouldn't do that (or don't play with them)
In my opinion, DMs are not storytellers (and a roleplaying game is not best played as a storytelling game. If you want to play a storytelling game, there are games designed as storytelling games that do that much better). A GM places challenges in front of the players, the players try to solve the challenges, and after you are done playing, then you can tell the story (or stories) about what happened at the table. As a byproduct of play, a story may emerge.
It occurred to me recently that, at some time in the past (maybe around 3rd edition of D&D?), professional writers took over the design and adventure making of D&D; as opposed to the original D&D material which was written by a shoe repairman and a security guard, and other wargaming hobbyists. Sometime around then the game became about telling stories (which is just what you would expect a writer to be interested in) rather than the exploration of maps by PCs and combat with fierce creatures to obtain treasure [in a hexcrawl or a dungeon delve]. Video game influences (which are much more linier or like chose your own adventures) also began to influence TTRPG design [for the worse in my opinion]. Modules began to be written as movement from plot point to plot point, rather than allowing characters to roam around in the sandbox pursuing their own ideas and motivations. It seems like this was around the time that the term "railroading" arose and was used as a derogatory term by those of us who had grown up playing the open world/sandbox type of campaign to describe these ‘plot driven’ 'straightjackets' type of adventures. The linked videos are a great example of this point of view (which I agree with): czcams.com/video/4c9BoqE-jeY/video.html and czcams.com/video/PIQpVNbLwuE/video.html
The story is what happens at [or away from] the table AFTER they game is finished for the evening, when tales are told of what happened during the game. When I hear GMs, game designers and others talking about the three-act structure, overlaid by the Shakespearian five act structure, and then talking about the realization moment in screenplays [coming at approximately page 80], and the climax of the story, and [heaven help us] the denouement, etc., etc., I know that I am listening to someone who likely learned to play after the rise of the 'storytelling/video game' type of adventure.
Back in 1974, when age 10 to 25 year old 'kids' were putting together their D&D worlds and building sandboxes for others to play in, we/they had little formal education about story structure and the like [and wouldn't have thought about using it in the design of a 'dungeon' or wilderness adventure anyway], but we/they knew enough to create challenges for players to overcome, which creates the environment for conflict (which is critical to drama), and with players having created motivated characters who were seeking fame and fortune, and were placed in such a sandbox environment, they organically created story through play. Look at things like the Judges Guild materials from the late 70s. They are filled with locations, creatures, NPCs, random tables and such and not plot points, a main narrative, etc. A DM is not a storyteller and RPGs are best used as role playing games, and not storytelling games.
Meatball!
I wish I could have seen your videos when I first started running games a few years ago, Wizards doesn't include important advice like this in their books and I've steadily come to dislike them.
Finally someone else who knows what is going on.
Wait you prep?
I just flip tarot cards.
Try Chronicles of the Outlands by Better Games.
Big Chungus?
Chungus is busy sitting on her throne. See my twitter feed for details.
Another youtuber I'm subbed to just made a vid with a similar premise (here: czcams.com/video/39_MORIRIY4/video.html ). Was there like a prompt somewhere that started it or is the two just a coincidence?
It takes you months? Dude, I can prepare in 1 hour and be ready to play using the method you describe as "illusionism". Players don't know the difference, it's just a game. Needing MONTHS to prepare is insane. Furthermore, it is pointless to prepare for things that will never come up during the game. The setting is not a real place, it's fiction. Here's the difference, in the real world, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, it does make a sound. But in the game world it doesn't. The only sounds that exist and matter are the ones the PCs can hear. Start small and build out rather than spending months creating a whole world that may or may not ever get used. The idea of world building is fine but this idea that it must all be set in stone prior to starting a campaign is nuts.
You don't know what you're missing.
Dude, you must run the most boring games Imaginable. I have played at tables run like this. I stayed two sessions and left. Why do i want to play some random farmer who kills ants all week long. The point of being in a RPG setting at all is that your characters have the CHANCE to change the world, if they push hard and dont mess up.
I like trolling like this. It's the complete package with the really dumb username and the immediate launch into insults. It's not super common any more and has a vintage, classic appeal. Nice work
@@kadensmith5367 I have been running Games since 1st edition. Define Thac0., please.