Scud running Nightmare!
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2023
- Tips and strategies that will help you survive an emergency scud running situation in very low clouds and visibility.
To read more about my international ferry flying adventures check out my books "Ferry Pilot" and "Dangerous Flights"
Signed copies available at kerrymccauley.com/
Or on Amazon. www.amazon.com/Ferry-Pilot-Li...
To go skydiving with Kerry McCauley visit www.skydivetwincities.com/
I read Eric "Winkle" Brown's autobiography, and he described - when he was starting out - landing in a field rather than take his chances in IMC with rising terrain.
If the first pilot to land a jet on an aircraft carrier does that, it's pretty good advice.
He’s right
After a 30+ year career as and airline pilot I took up paramotoring. The lure of class "G"s 1 mile viz and clear of clouds always beckons. Low weather on a PPG rig produces some of the coolest experiences I've ever had in aviation. Nonetheless, I know fellow PPGG pilots who have been trapped on top for hours on end and several that have just had to descend using a cell phone map or GPS and hope for the best. Florida? Can be tricky this time of the year, especially with west winds. There's almost always an inversion. If the sun can't get to the ground, fog conditions can continue for many hours and blow the forecasters predictions out of the water.
one thing I would like to add: DO NOT do any abrupt maneuvers after you have slowed down - you might end up in a stall.
Also... know what the MSA is for the area and for the area ahead and decide early enough if you want to push it further. Putting the plane down early is probably the best you can do.
Very true.
@@KerryDMcCauleyC172 SP has a stall-speed of 68kts at 60° bank - which is at about the best glide speed, too
Excellent analysis and suggestions!
Dave, 55 years flying and 28,000 accident/incident free hours
Thanks Dave! I spent a lot of time down low thinking about it.
@@KerryDMcCauleyI did some dumb things my first 1,500 hours, but I always flew out of harms way-and survived🤞🙏🏻. After 2,500 hours I was at the airlines. Flew higher! Had some close calls in 40 years, but rigorous airline training saved the day!🤞🙏🏻. Now flying my 1947 v tail bonanza, at age 70. Gotta be careful, since my luck-bucket is almost empty 🤪
@@davidmangold1838 can you share with us what one of those close airline calls involved? Sounds like you got the training that saved your life and perhaps others!!! Stories are great because you can choose to do one of 2 things, 1) listen to them and put them in the 9 lives piggy-bank or 2) ignore them and regret you did all the way to the life off switch.
That uncontrollable shaking is a scary thing to experience. I once made an unexpected 360 in a car while on a freeway exit, luckily without hitting anything. When I finally managed to stop the car, I couldn't stop my knees from shaking, nor could I step out of the car. My legs were jelly. Must be 10 times worse escaping a plane crash.
This happened to me once as a teenager too. I was driving on the interstate when I suddenly lost traction due to hydroplaning. Somehow my car managed to enter several 360 spins. I still remember seeing road, barrier wall, car headlights, road, wall, headlights, etc at least three times. When I finally stopped spinning, I was facing the correct way in the middle lane and a tractor trailer and other traffic flew past me, still going 60+mph! I was able to exit and pulled over and had to wait while my body dumped all of the adrenaline it built up in that moment. Cheers fellow experiencer of crazy car action.🎉
Me too, I was stupid enough to get stuck on railroad tracks, thinking, the car is going to start, the car is going to start. It started and I was able to roll off the tracks about 100 ft before the freighter went by. I was shaking so bad I had to get out and sit down on the curb.
Megz? Like in forgetting to push or pull a door? All I remember, the car spin took forever, but counter steering, breaking/releasing etc. happened at lightspeed. After that, realization of near death kicks in and the shaking begins. Life changing event for me. Just like skydiving or flying, but no candidate for repeat. Made me cautious at age 21. @@dave-d-grunt
@@jingle1161 I thought you may be someone I know that had the same experience. I’m glad you came out ok.
Great video, and I agree it’s high time we had this conversation! I think the strategies for getting out of a scud-running mess as you’ve outlined are good ones: slow down, don’t outrun your visibility, and make an emergency landing if possible or necessary. Another strategy to keep you safe while flying low to the ground: use a moving map device (ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot) to screen for obstacles ahead of you. If you have a savvy passenger, they can watch the moving map and suggest course corrections around towers and terrain while you fly with eyes forward.
Kerry, I initially subscribed early in your channel because I love your books, but I’m really glad you’re posting regular videos with great content. Keep it up!
More like this please! It's so much faster to learn from your 30 years of ferrying than it is to make the same mistakes ourselves!
Definitely do a video on accidental VFR into IMC: what to do in practice. Take the same approach of "other people have told us to avoid the situation, so I'll focus on what you should do if despite the warnings you end up in it"
Aspects to cover: how to get a pop up IFR clearance from ATC while flying, avoiding spatial disorientation especially for those not used to flying in the soup, avoiding icing, getting back into VFR safely
It'll probably depend hugely on the aircraft's equipment, so maybe cover several strategies going from IFR certified aircraft down to almost no avionics. e.g. Full glass cockpit with GPS / six pack with old nav radios and maybe a smartphone / no attitude indicator or nav radios at all.
Good idea! I'll get right on it.
Good talk Kerry. The slow down tip is key. The majority of my experience is in Alaska. I agree that the tools and talent are key as well. It’s also legal to land on any public road in Alaska…. I have landed plenty of times and waited for weather(smaller private aircraft-mine)…..usually these things were not very common as generally if weather was that bad I never attempted the flight to begin with, but sometimes it is necessary to go take a look in a vast wilderness where the wx reports are ever changing or nonexistent. Every flight is of course unique and not all practices fit in all situations ……the topics you covered here are very relevant in a lot of scenarios and can avert a bad ending in many situations.
I’ve landed on the road twice: once it was intentional and I had previously looked the area over for wire &telephone poles. The other time I landed on the highway in Alaska, but I could see no telephone poles or wires as I slowed to 50 mph. I landed in a straight stretch, pulled off the road and spent the night. Next day it was CAVU. Wires and poles should make you tremble!
I've only landed on a road once. No emergency, just flying a cub around and it was lunchtime!
Not a pilot - but I learn a great deal from your presentations. As an engineer - it's about "situational awareness" & "risk assessment/management."
Thanks Kerry always excited when your videos drop
I think far too many pilots fly till they run out of visibility to fly in....
often, it is far safer to find a small open area & do what you would do in an engine out rather than attempt to scudrun at treetop level... I think too often, we miss viable off-fields in order to keep on flying into an ever more dangerous environment..
don't know, maybe having a pre-determined condition set after which you consciously switch your mindset to searching for somewhere to put down might be a good idea?
There’s a reason they’re called “sucker holes”
The problem is that even if you have a personal rule you're likely to break it when the time comes. Good idea still though.
Excellent! The 1/3rd idea is very good. Slowing way down with a bit of flap is also crucial/
And if It all goes to hell LAND wings level flaps down seatbelt super tight doors unlatched.
Thanks for making a youtube channel. I love hearing about your flying experiences.
Get an instrument rating and practice often, this greatly reduces chances. Anybody that flies even close to marginal VFR is asking for it.
Great stuff Kerry,
We all sometimes get into situations we dont expect, good to have some knowledge on useful what to do’s. Never surrender!!
I haven't flown or instructed in years, but I wish I had given that talk to my students.
Thanks Terry for the education. You are right. No one talked about this subject before. It’s very helpful.
We learn by talking through potential problems and solutions.
Wise words. Avoid first and practice your skills in case you get caught. Land while you can. I remember flying under phone wires in a homebuilt that had engine power problems. Maiden flight for me in that plane. Enough power to fly in the ground effect. Under the phone wires was the only option other than a climb stall spin. Saw a crop duster pilot fly under wires one day and never forgot it. It saved my life. Scary though. Landed at first opportunity and damaged the plane but was unscathed.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’ll try to remember every word!
Thanks for watching!
I’ve done a lot of scud running in my bush pilot days,but the proliferation of cell and wind towers these days scare the hell out of me!
This video is a service to the community.
Sure you "not Supposed to" , but it happens, and better to be prepared.
Your strategies are well thought out and should be in every pilot's bag of tricks.
Thx for the great tips, my fav is fly the GPS track and altitude backwards. you have a really nice channel here. I sure miss the dangerous flights show.
Excellent, Kerry. Solid advice. Greatly appreciated. You have succinctly and concisely covered preyy much what everyone else seems to not want to talk about, and perhaps that is down a simple lack of experience. Thank you.
The "don't talk about it because it will just encourage pilots to do it" mentality just blows me away.
@@KerryDMcCauley 100% agree and sadly we see this in other aspects of even basic training.
@@KerryDMcCauley It's like some parents who don't talk to their kids about sex, drugs, and alcohol. Head in the sand, pretending that will keep them safe. Quite the opposite. Better to equip them with knowledge and some ways to navigate challenging situations.
I've done this a couple times but would only do this in my area of the world. The Puget Sound and my understanding and ability to recognize where I was at based upon the shorelines was my only superpower in scud running in my backyard. I have only done this when it had to be done.
Being familiar with the area is a big factor.
Hit 100k today . thanks for the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over last months.started with 8k in February
What a great video! Thank you Sir!
Glad you liked it!
Important information on a subject few are willing to discuss.
I think my definition of scud running is a little different and your video made it clear why. In weather, one rule that I’ve never violated is to always have two ways out if forward progress is no longer feasible. If I get down to one escape route, I turn around. I now realize this rule generally prevents me from flying into the type of scud you discuss. I don’t live and seldom fly where there are mountains, though, and can see where this rule has its limitations.
An EFIS will go a long way even with little IFR training. Having all flight info in one place means you just need to stare, not scan.
You’ve won a new subscriber!
Interestingly enough, I've been trying out an EFIS TA app on my phone. In a pinch, it might be better than nothing.
fixed wing is a real dilema, helicopter,...put it on the ground, any ground. even water gives you another roll of the dice and whilst you are walking/swimming, you can think of an excuse for this mess. ego control also helps.
Excellent video and tips.
I think your suggestion to land off field is the best advice. Too many cell towers out there.
Life Saving information !!! Thank u!
Deteriorating weather can suck you in, especially if you are getting close to your destination. As the visibility gets bad, it gets harder to see the even worse conditions just a short way ahead. I got myself in trouble that way as a low time pilot in the early seventies. Wound up putting the 7AC Champ I was flying into a rough farm field. I should have turned around earlier when I still could, but even a rough landing is better than a crash.
This was excellent advice.
Well said. If you stay above a road, you will not hit a tower.
Excellent advice. I'd like to be able to say that I've never gotten myself in this situation, but that would be a lie. The only thing that saved me then as a relatively low time private pilot, was the training I got, a whopping 3 hrs of IFR, only 1.5 in real IFR. It never happened again. And I can relate to the shaking knees.
Those are the best lessons!
There's a video on CZcams somewhere of a couple of guys flying into low ceilings in a kit plane with virtually no instrumentation. It was a bush plane with huge tires, and the flight was to land on some sand dune somewhere or something like that. Rather than just landing they went into the clouds. It worked out, but it's remarkable how off-airport landing in these situations is often not even considered. By far the safest choice in many circumstances.
I ferried a Super Cub on Tundra tires once from Florida to Minnesota. he weather was terrible but I felt good that I could land that plane anywhere!
Well done. Not many pilots are talking about scud running, it's an experience that many pilots don't ever want to experience. I found myself scud running over the Gulf of Mexico many years ago while delivering a Cessna 206 from Florida to Belize. It was fun until I was down to about 100 feet AGL. I finally climbed up and got above the mess . All ended well but if I was over land it would have been a different story.
Great pragmatic advice. Shouldn't get into that situation but if you do it's all about having thought in advance about having a few tricks up your sleeve to maximise your chance of surviving.
On my last training flight before I did my PPL checkride, my instructor had me plan a 30 mile VFR trip to a grass strip airport. After checking weather, preflight and review, we took off from our home airport. A mile or two out my CFI put the 'foggles' on me and said I ran into some unintentional IMC weather. She had me navigate to the grass strip and we ''broke out" of IMC right at pattern altitude where she then pulled the throttle to idle. We landed in the grass (my first time) with a simulated engine out after similated IMC. I passed my checkride the next day.
Back in the early 80s I was skiing at Stevens Pass Washington. The Highway at Stevens pass is is 4300 feet. The weather ceiling was only a couple hundred feet above the highway. On the chairlift I heard a light airplane scud running along the highway. I looked toward the highway and saw a light aircraft flying through the pass. The noise was very clear, then it went quiet. Just down the west side of the hill from the pass the highway took a sharp curve to the right. When I got home from a great day skiing the news reported a light aircraft crashing into the trees just west of the summit. It turns out the pilot was a CAP member/pilot. He was quick enough to pull the yoke back and stall the aircraft into the tree tops. He walked away but the airplane was not reusable.
excellent info, thank you sir
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you!
Outstanding 👌🙏🙏🙏👍🫢🛩️
I recall my late father telling me of a trip to Calgary from the north, as he approached Calgary the weather getting worse, thick snow falling, very low vis and ceiling, Calgary reported below IFR limits, so he landed in a random farmers field near the hi-way and hitched a ride into the city, of course that wouldn't have worked as well in a twin but was fine since he was flying a Helio Courier.
I flew seaplane charter for 20 years in the south Louisiana oil field. I kept a pair of Ray Ban amber shooter's glasses with my map. When skud running I would wear them and get just enough extra visibility to avoid the towers.
Kerry, I would also mention the use of an autopilot if equipped. Altitude hold/heading mode, stay above the MEA and declare an emergency. Think about how many crashes involving spatial disorientation in aircraft equipped with good autopilots.
That's a good idea, I should have mentioned it.
Excellent point. I meant to mention it in my own comment last night then got distracted. Locking in your altitude and heading and then using your heading bug to steer your airplane to best flight conditions dramatically reduces pilot workload and sphincter tone.
I was a passenger with a vfr pilot that went scud running in the Fraser R valley on way to the Abbotsford air show one time. He threw me a map in back seat of the Seneca and asked if I could figure out where we were from looking out the window at towns about 500 ft below. We got to the show but it was tense and that cured me of flying with amateur pilots, vfr, and light recip aircraft.
Interesting. What year was this? I fly out of Abbotsford all the time and am interested in the details of your flight. Makes me wonder why the pilot didn't contact ATC and ask for vectors...
MT i think it was 1993. We flew from small field S of CGY to KEL in Seneca borrowed from pilots friend, the first aft. He had sold his C206 so had nothing to fly. Then KEL to ABB next day. Got to around Hope and he decided to go low below cloud layer. May as well go scud running. Everybody else flying VFR behind us turned around. Recall he had way underestimated time on his flight plan which i questioned at breakfast but i'm not the pilot. After map episode at 500 ' AGL and maybe 2x FP time had been elapsed we were still going W so i said why dont you contact ABB tower or some ATC since he couldnt explain why we were in the air so long. ABB ATC asked him to IDENT and said we were just passing 5 km to the N so make a L turn, another L turn and cleared to land. And you're holding up the show so make it fast. He made a nice landing but not much else. So im done with amateur pilots, VFR, planes under 1000 hp, and private planes in IMC. Feel lucky not to be another cross on that mtn on av maps near Hope. Im a bit nervous on B737 -800 and Q400 now. Happy flying. @@markthibault8579
@@robertrpenny Thanks for sharing. It's a shame you had such an experience. There are a lot of much more safety-minded pilots who would have flown very differently, likely those who opted to turn back when the ceiling went too low.
MT i know there are safe pilots out there but i dont have the motivation to sort them all out. And dont want to hand them a XLS spreadsheet to fill in before we go. I happened to speak to the subject pilots cousin (also a pilot) after returning to CGY and he said the guy has been chewed out by most ATC in W. Cda and NW USA for infractions so you're a lucky gambler. But of course i did not know.
The difference between accidental VFR flight into clouds and flying into IMC with a clearance? Commitment. The commitment to look at your instrument, maybe have your autopilot help manage your workload, and to climb away consistently. It's not easy to understand why people do not flip their mental switch to get themselves out of the pickle, but instead meander and try to stay visual when they can't. (Let's not assume there is icing or too much convection.)
👍✅ Another great video full of hard earned life saving info!
Glad it was helpful!
The “full flaps” advice is not correct. In most aircraft (140, 150, 152, 172, 182, PA-28 etc) full flaps will only add drag, not lift. You cannot fly slower with 40* than you can with 20* in a 172, you’ll just need more power to maintain level flight, which will decrease your endurance.
The point of full flaps is to fly slower. The stall speed in my 182 is 2 knots slower with full flaps than with 20 degrees. Not much but still slower. Although 20 degrees would probably work just fine.
This episode reminds me how seasoned instructors at my club taked about barnstorming during the theoretical classes.
Rule #1 of barnstorming - you don't do any barnstorming, because you can lose your life and kill your passenger, and it is totally illegal of course.
Rule #2: if you break rule #1, at least do your illegal and highly despicable action with some considerations to safety:
- overfly and check the area for obstacles and rising terrain, plan the flight path mentally
- maintain high speed (VA) on the high speed descent, don't cut the power completely at the lowest part of the flight profile
- aim for an area well before the "barn", not the barn itself
- level off with smooth control movements, no jerky moves, high speed = small pitch changes, greater control forces
- go into a climb smoothly, no zoom climb, watch the speed and obstacled
- absolutely and positively no steep turns at low heights below 300 feet, unless you are a psycho that nobody will talk to afterwards
- 2 passes maximum, because more passes = spectators are less interested, and also more passes = more opportunities to get yourself killed - it's just not worth to push your luck for diminishing returns.
Rule #3: always remember Rule #1 is the master rule.
Well said, option 3 has probably saved a lot of lives. Everybody SHOULD be able to fly straight and level using basic instruments, but getting into IMC is not a great way to test of your abilities. Even if landing does not go perfectly, walking away from a damaged aircraft is an activity restricted to the living.
Much better to land than to push a bad situation.
I did a paramotor scud run at an airport lol. I took off when thin spots started appearing. After circling it seem to have got worse so I landed. The pilot trying to get out safely was happy when I told him I was going to check it out haha. Well we were grounded for maybe 30 minutes more, amazing flight over the class G clouds I love it.
I would say if we're honest, pretty much every pilot with any real experience has done it at least once... probably more than once. The video makes some very good points related to what one should do as the conditions worsen, but my personal advice to any new pilots is to just not do it unless you are REALLY proficient on the panel. Thanks for the video.
Oh definitely. I just hope this video scares some young pilot from being stupid someday.
I picked up other option this year. I went to fly school and get my instrument rating.
Good advice. There is a scale perception phenomenon in flight, you might find yourself veering off to avoid a mountain even though it is still five miles away from you. We are trained to fear potential obstacles at low altitude but in this situation it a far less danger than losing sight of the ground. Also pilots should not look at instrument flight as a rating that has to be achieved and maintained. At least know how to control the airplane without horizon reference and even with a Garmin 296 you can avoid terrain and possibly get out of the situation.
I had a colleague who would scud run all over Oregon LOTS OF Clouds on the coast so he would fly up the river valleys then pop up his last flight though he hit a line that was crossing the river .. and was killed. IF your not IFR proficient you just need to do what you said stay away from Scud running at all costs.
I scud run a lot...well used to. And I never did it without the ability to pop up and go IFR.
Too many pilots in Alaska fly into clouds a meet cumulo-granite. With a cub or any slow aircraft it is easier to land an wait it out than killing yourself and any passenger. Good advice is if you see a place to land do it. Don't be proud. Soloed in 1967 and still doing it. But I have to say I've done it and more than once. You have good advice.
My first year in Alaska back in 1984. I would get back to base feeling like your friend three or four times a week. Especially since if you didn't make destination you didn't get paid.
As a ferry pilot I had the pressure to fly like you did. We just don't have the luxury to sit around and wait for perfect weather, we have to at the very least go take a look. Always interesting when you land and your hand is shaking just a bit.
@@KerryDMcCauley your advice is probably controversial. But definitely needed.
The one thing I was told to learn, that improve my flying more than anything else. Was retracting flaps before touching the runway. I was flying the Cessna 207's at the time and their design of flap control was easy to do this with. I also learned to do it on the the Cessna 208B. I learned comfortably to do it 10 feet off the ground. Also waiting to use the flap till entering the White arc on takeoff. It made crosswind landings and takeoffs unbelievably easier.
I see so many videos that if they just retract the flaps they would have been fine. Again this is for crosswinds. Although I did it quite often trying to stay in tune.
Flying so low, if things go wrong, you don't even have enough time to say "Oh Shit"- Kerry McCauley (Dangerous Flights)
And it's still true.
I've been wondering if you have a well equipped plane but no ifr skills. Could you use the autopilot to get out of the situation by climbing with it stable through the clouds?
Yes you could provided you know how to use the autopilot well enough to get yourself out of trouble. probably a better idea than pushing down scary low.
Is there any ATC of the flight you showed of the guy fling into the clouds? wow that looks like a mess!!
I haven't been able to find any.
Dan Gryder has a video with interviews of the pilot's family/friends as well as a little bit of ATC audio. The poor kid was disoriented and in way over his head. czcams.com/video/fo_xKXuAkh0/video.html
Personally, if I ever got into GA [Part 91] I would mandatorily have a MEL of TCAS, Radio altimeter and an ILS approach system. Practice IFR in VFR all the time. That way you don't have to worry about punching into the soup/clouds going VFR into IMC.
A wise man once said: "If you get yourself in situations like this, you're stupid". Many years ago a friend of mine used to scud run, because of "get-itis", until a small hill found him. RIP
Where does the term “ scud running “ from . What part of these words do apply to the low minimum VFR flight
I agree it is up for discussion. Yes, weather prediction is not perfect. Transition to IMC from marginal VMC, from VFR to IFR, is also dangerous. VMC demands flying lower if unable to maintain VMC at present altitude. Yes, they are mostly killed by flying too high. Yes, don't fly into the clouds is key. I flew Ag in Pawnees, Army medevac in Hueys, and pipelines in small Cessnas with a 200' AGL waiver. Low, even for 17,000 hours, need not be scary. The return on the same GPS track is a good tactic, but nearest may be through worstest. Landing, for me, was not the last resort. On a 3500 mile pipeline loop there is going to be weather somewhere. Try laying up close to weather with a precautionary landing at a crop duster's strip, airport with or without facilities, or road and go again after it passes over or moves on if a fast moving cold front. Good lesson Kerry, and one that needs more exposure.
As an old Huey crew chief before I became a pilot sitting in the back with guys like you taught me volumes.
I had some IFR training after my Private rating was complete. Unfortunately, my instructor disappeared. No, really, No one knew where he was. He simply left without telling anyone where he was going. Anyway, I remained an SCP (severe clear pilot). For me the joy of flying is the view. The destination is secondary.
Nothing wrong with that!
So EMS helicopter pilots do “one of the most dangerous things a pilot can do” all the time?
Pretty much. I have a lot of friends that are EMS helicopter pilots and have they got some stories!
I was taught close to the ground is scud running
I here you and all, but I have to question a man sitting in a 65 degree room with a sweater on lol
Because it was only 20 degrees outside! Old guys like me gotta stay warm.
Great video. Cite that Heli vid carrying the bride and groom lower and lower and straight into the ground. Dont do it!
"It's mah right ter fly when I wawnt to! Ain't no gubmint gone ter tell me what ter do!"
Damn skippy!
@@KerryDMcCauley Damn tootin'!
One tip I can pass on when scud running in mountainous terrain and you can't see ahead is stay over and follow a highway or major road to avoid flying into a mountain. Highways don't go into mountains.
Not a bad tip. Of course sometimes they do go into mountains (tunnel)
IFR = I Follow Roads 😉
@@KerryDMcCauley Don't forget us old scud runners carry a Rand McNally road maps. Shows the tunnels & comes in handy reading the road signs. Helps to have a copilot with binoculars.
I remember when my friend and famous aviatrix, Edna Gardner Whyte, told me in 1985, "Scud runnin' will kill your ass."
When scud running, be sure and count the towers and power lines to avoid them and maintain situation awareness.
I am a helicopter and fixed wing CFI. In helicopter operations and "work flying", low level air work is very common, just as in fixed wing ag-operations. My flight instructor back in the days was an ex-vietnam pilot with a small, but very successful training school in Connecticut, he was known for simulating all those events during flight training. Practising "scud-running" off airport is difficult, as it is often illegal. We did it anyways and is was a great learning and added at lot to flight safety. Practicing U-Turns at low speeds can be done at altitude. Some "nap-of-the-eath-training" at slow speed and full flaps can be practiced over large airfields. Use your flight training to practice this stuff, it may one day safe your life. Some other tips to instructors:
- Treat every take-off and landing as a (simulated) short field landing/ Take off. This will sharpen the skills for off-airport landings.
- Teach your students to be very comfortable mauevering at very low airspeeds all the way into stalls/ spin. It is a lot less scary than you may think.
- If you have the chance, do some extended low-level flights with them in terrain
- Practice off airport approaches as much as possible
It is a lot of fun and it will help your students to handle situations like this a lot better if needed... Practice, practice, practice
I wish more pilots received training like this but sadly the training seems to be going in the other direction. Never fly with even the slightest thing wrong with the aircraft or anything less than perfect weather. The problem with that is that if anything ever goes wrong they have no experience to draw from.
@@KerryDMcCauley It is our job as instructors to prepare our students AND to filter out personalities not fit for the job. I once had a 65 year old student and I told him straight out: You are not fit to carry passengers on your own as a PIC... We ended up flying together with me as a safety pilot whenever he had passengers... He loved it! Flying has many facets and it is not about showing off... It is enjoying the magic of flying.
When you know how to hang a door I will listen to you……
Geeze, tough crowd. I didn't hang it.
not going to lie, im pretty terrified. going for my ppl soon.
In skydiving we have a saying, "respect the dirt and you won't get hurt" I'll try and come with a clever saying for this!
Taboo topic but agree that it should be discussed.
Nothing should be taboo. We learn by talking about everything.
This discussion is taboo in the community because it should never be attempted. A lot of us have done it, including myself. It doesn’t excuse the offense.
Personally I see two glaring deficiencies in modern training - teaching decision making skills and actual navigation.
If more emphasis was placed on actually learning meteorology, navigation, and the ATC system instead of $600 “pass your written” classes perhaps young pilots would be more confident in making go/no go decisions.
I personally know private pilots who did not solo for 30+ hours and took their checkride at 100+ hours and have an additional 150+ hours of PIC time who still do not possess the necessary skills to make an informed go/no go decision.
One would think with that much training those skills would have been cultivated.
I am instrument-rated and have a fair amount of time over 27 years of private flying. I quit flying IFR a few years ago simply because I wasn’t doing it enough to stay what I consider proficient. Currency isn’t always adequate for proficiency.
The most valuable benefit from my instrument rating has overwhelmingly been decision making skills.
Get your instrument ticket. Don’t scud run. Just don’t do it.
100 percent agree. So much time is wasted training students on stupid facts that don't matter especially when it comes to analyzing the weather. I've been flying small aircraft all over the world for over 40 years and I've never once needed to know the difference between advection fog and radiation fog. Or what an occluded front is. I could go on and on.
What they need to teach pilots is how to look up and analyze forecasts, how much faith you should put in them, and how to determine how fast weather systems like thunderstorms are moving.
And where your outs are in case the forecast is wrong.
If you aren’t comfortable flying the gauges you shouldn’t be scud running, period. Birds climb to safety and live, people descend and often die.
This is what Kobe Bryant was doing when he crashed his chopper and he didn’t even have a license to fly.
He wasn't the the one flying the helicopter.
There's only 2 rules for scud running. Stay directly over a hwy or railroad and if you lose contact with the highway. Climb climb climb. Cloud base us irrelevant. Forward visibility is all you have. If you can't climb out, stay on the ground and don't go near an airplane. Kobe Bryant pilot was scud running
The problem with that is that some pilots don't have the skills to fly in IMC.
Ya, I get it that this is about "survival" but as pilots we must always have a out. If you don't have a IFR rating and the clouds can close in behind you are committing suicide. Some suicides are not successful but don't count on it.
The problem is when does the poor visibility turn into a cloud? Pretty much when you can't see the ground anymore. Then things are getting worse at 120 mile an hour! Well just turn around right? Good luck you are already low to the ground, with no visual reference, with the hopes that you make the best coordinated turn of your life.
If your airspeed goes you stall and die. If you descend a little bit you hit the ground and die. You climb a little you may never get back to visual conditions you lose control of the aircraft and you die.
I like the last comment. Be SCARED, very scared and if you don't have a out STOP! Be a pessimist! You can never trust the weather and you should be checking the weather behind you too to make sure you have a retreat.
Been there Kerry (and many have !). Great discussion about the 'elephant in the room'. At least, I would say, realise the seriousness of the situation early and ASK for help. It's a scary place to be, between low clouds and tree tops in poor visibility but you have to make a plan if you've been caught out, be active rather than get suckered into the inevitable 'loss of situational awareness'. This was my recent, very unexpected encounter with the fluffy stuff czcams.com/video/ps9SyIfShiw/video.html
Kerry did you see the call out to you in Dan Gryder’s probable cause video. Welcome to the internet.
Ha, just watched it. I like the way he totally misrepresented what that video was about.
@@KerryDMcCauley Yeah totally agree. Doesn't matter, Dan likes to take down his videos after a few days anyway.
Happened to me maybe Twice. Both times were really scary and totally unavoidable and irresponsible.
Experience comes from bad decisions. That's why I'm so experienced!
How about VFR over the top? Just kidding doesn’t yell at me.
I don't understand this disorientation in the clouds. If you know how to read your instrument and you know to trust them over your own head you should never lose control. it should be as simple as flying the instrument. A pilot with just a couple hundred hours should have enough instrument experience to fly by the instrument at least to keep the plane level, in fact, one instrument should be all you need to not lose control. The problem is new pilots are not being trained to trust the instrument at all times. the only way you lose control in the clouds is if you are not flying the instruments in fact if you run into a cloud for some reason do not look outside not even for a few sec just fly the instrument, you have everything you need right in front of you. I am not saying to cloud flying without the proper rating, what I am saying is if new pilots got trained properly they should have no problem if they eff up and get into a cloud. They should move to instruments only, the instruments tell them if they are going up or down, left or right, pitch, and attitude of the plane, they tell you everything you need to stay level and go up or down to get out of the clouds. you need to practice this type of flying all the time, I understand why you can get disorientated in the clouds I get why humans are not built for that, what I don't understand is why pilots don't just fly by the instrument the second they find themself in the clouds. This should be drilled into their head in new pilot training if not they are doing it wrong.
The problem is that once you get a case of the "leans" it's VERY hard to trust your instruments. I've had the leans a time or two and let me tell you keeping the wings level is crazy hard!
I think a lot of the issue is the fear response overwhelming your normal rational brain.
Every Private student should get some actual IMC time, the leans are real and you need to know you can ignore them and trust your panel. Foggles or hood are not the same! If the cloud tops aren’t too high, you should also be able to keep the wings straight while you confess and climb above to VMC conditions. Have an out always.
IFR is for Airliners! Not Single Pilot amatuers.
Just fly over or inside. Stupid to think even this way. Just climb and go home.
The problem is with pilots without an IFR rating pushing the weather and getting in over their heads.It's easy to say just don't do it but it happens all the time.