Is this the best paramotor engine ever? The first true four stroke alternative!
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Miroslav Svec, lead designer at SCOUT paramotors shares first-hand information about a brand new engine prototype....
4-Stroke
single cylinder
240cc
prototype by EOS engines Austria (www.eos-engine.com)
Installed in SCOUT carbon paramotor (www.scoutparamotor.com)
Tested by SCOUT team (pilots Miroslav Svec and Peter Szabo)
engine weight 14.4 kg with exhaust
power 27 HP
fuel consumption 2 litres per hour (86kg pilot + paramotor on 22sqm Ozone Viper 3)
Feel free to have any question at info@scoutparamotor.com
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Is this still in development ? I would love to see a 4 stroke alternative succeed.
Wow! Rock on Miro, what a great project. If this turns out to be as good as you hope, it'll change the entire industry for the better. I'm excited!
Hey eric, love seeing all the paramotor dudes around the comment section, such a tight community
It's been a year... Has it?
March 31st 2017 - "I'll keep you updated". Jan 2018 - Any updates?
Interesting stuff! Looking forward to future updates
I'm WAY excited for this. This puts SCOUT in great position with the Icarus Challenge. You pump gas and get amazing range. I come from dirt bike culture and fly paramotors now. When Yamaha led out with the YZF426 and won with it the rest was history. That linear power, cleaner burn, and fuel economy matched with great power is fantastic!
yes this would be the ultimate Icarus paramotor....but it must be reliable and time is needed to prove it.
Hopefully it's reliable like the old Honda XR motor. And hopefully they use a good titanium valve so they don't stretch out.
Single piece forge- not the bonded.
I'm a rider, too, who is also knocking around this as my next sport. Plus, how cool to travel with it and fly all over the US. Nonetheless, SCOUT is the best by far. Safety, anti--torgue. Now a 4S? Nice! That's the one I'll buy. Like you, I believe in 4S. Maybe Yamaha, or Honda or Kawi should build these. If they did, you know they'd be fast and last. PERIOD! I want a Hayabusa PPG!
SCOUT paramotor any tangible updates on the 4 stroke Miro?
Awesome. Thx for the update. It looks promising.
Wow! That engine sounded as quiet as a police motorcycle engine! Very nice! thanks for sharing.
'Bailey' in the UK have been producing 4-stroke engine paramotors here in the UK for nearly twenty years, they even use the same GY6 Honda engine as a base, the one Scout has used here (re-engineered crank case). I even made my own machine based on this engine about eight years ago (check out my video's). Good engine, bit heavy though!
can't wait to see one in person.
when can we expect an update on this project?
Hurry up and get this thing dialed in because I'm wanting to pull the trigger on a scout and I like the idea of the 4 stroke better. I've been flying hang gliders for 7 years and I need something else to get me off the ground on calm days.
Awsome!! I love the Scout gear. Four stroke is the way for sure , I fly a F.B. Trike now with the four stroke Swiss Auto and love the sense of security over the two stroke. I wish I were younger because I would love to fly the back packs again so I could fly a Scout. Any way, keep building premium stuff Scout. (:
Big question over current two strokes: Does it run on 92 octane automobile pump gas? Our premium is ethanol free but many places aren't, will this motor be ok on ethanol blended fuels?
about the 4stroke?? Is it preforming wel now?
So no fuel/oil mixing required? Does it have a closed oil system or is it total loss?
Is it possible to supercharger one of these engines to help at high altitude? I know back in the dat the P51 Mustang supercharged it's Merlin engine and that boosted performance dramatically.
CAN YOU PLZ DO AN UPDATE VIDEO ON THIS ENGINE PLZ THANK YOU
Is it fuel injected that would be the way to go as you climb it adjust the A/F ratio.
Cool unbelievable cant wait for release
😂
Terry at Falcon 4stroke here..good work on the project, do not be detracted by downer comments. Do not try to incorporate every suggestion from would-be buyers. Return-to-LZ reliability, heat control & manageable weight are the most important features, everything else is a bonus. EFI is fine but will not produce more power than a well tuned carb. EFI is reliable but when issues arise it will be frustrating and expensive to owners. I would prefer to see the familiar Walbro pumper matched to the motor. Baily's 4stroke entry to the US market was a disaster and spoiled the 4 stroke foot-launch trend for years. Study this and don't repeat:)
I more thought..this is a process, maybe better to not share all prototype problems. This candor will be used against you by other marketers in the future. Quietly solve the problems and support the engine once it's introduced officially. Be truthful always with your buyers and you will do well.
Yes you are right. Carb at the beginning for sure...
We do not mind sharing our path to make the engine market-ready. Roland from EOS agreed to play a fair and honest game and all the issues must be solved before selling to customers. We do not mind them knowing how much trouble it takes to tune an engine...
I greatly appreciate the honesty in your process. I am not motorized yet, but am likely to go with Team Scout when I become motorized.
SCOUT paramotor This is the kind of comment that makes me twice as likely to buy a SCOUT.
Don’t agree re letting people know the development process. I think it adds to the overall trust.
While it may not produce more power, this does have advantages in that the carb does not have to be manually adjusted when changing site elevation by doing it automatically. This will save maintenance and wear on the engine by avoiding running lean or rich and ruining the piston or wasting fuel operating in a choked condition in higher altitudes. Efi is not rocket science to troubleshoot and if readily available automobile or motorcycle components can be incorporated, this would greatly reduce costs by avoiding the use of 'special parts' exclusive to paramotors. As a first engine, i would certainly consider s small added premium that would become neglibile over time.
have the used a crank weight to help with the idle?
did they balance the crank to prevent vibration?
also
is anyone considering e start?
best of luck
im watching the progress
have a great day
I need this now!!
When will you have this product on the market?
Sir what do you think about fresh breeze is that a good motor I'm new to this sport and would like to get gear for normal country cruising not a lot of maneuver
While I would sometimes choose design options I respect other manufacturers.
I am sorry but I cannot give advice which paramotor is good or bad. My goal is to share my reasoning and teach you how to make your qualified judgment what is the paramotor for you:
czcams.com/video/EfNU9v1FyEs/video.html
Today we start shooting another set of videos about frame geometry. Small details that most pilots never thought about but yet they are so important...
Any updates on this engine?
great to see progression !
push for a dry sump oil system and EFI !
Can't wait to see 4-stroke engines a regular thing on paramotors!!
so 7 months later , do you have any updates yet ? I'm considering to get some PPG training next year and would really appreciate 4 stroke engine after my graduation , i don't like the noise of 2 strokes.
+TerraBiker I very much hope we only need one more week...
One more week for some relevant updates... Still far from serial production.
Do not postpone this sport! Get a 2stroke and have fun. Upgrade later!
How did the weight compare? Power to weight ratio?
Update?
This looks really good.
Of all claims though, I want to see the engine on a scale. 15 kgs all up weight for a 240cc 4 stroke is VERY light, this kind of figure is rarely achieved by 2-strokes of similar displacement.
Any word on when this engine will be available? Any word on estimated TBO
Are there any updates? How is testing going?
Reminds me of my scooter engine. The sound of it. Did this ever get going?
So I'm guessing the issue of engine outs is greatly reduced with the 4 stroke? Btw, will this come with an e-start? And are we looking at 6-12 months roughly before this thing is ready to be released, or do you think it'll be 12+ months?
Scout Paramotor : I believe somewhere you said people can get into this sport now with one of the existing engines, and upgrade to the 4-stroke engine later. Since I'm not familiar with this sport yet... but just got totally jazzed by watching your 30 geometry + other videos... I have no idea how modular these paramotors are (your brand or others). Please explain what will likely be involved in upgrading to the 4-stroke engine... including which parts will need to be replaced (in addition to the engine of course). And please also just say a few words about how modular and "mix-and-match" these paramotor products are. Though I have no experience with paramotors yet, I have been a private pilot for many years... not that I expect that to make the learning process that much easier.
This is probably not the place to ask, but let me also ask whether what I would want to do with my paramotor is actually practical or not. I will describe my tentative plans here:
#1: I may fly here in modest altitude places for a while (4000 to 11000 feet), but the application I really need one of these paramotors for is to explore extremely remote locations in the Adacama Andes in northern Chile. Thought this area extends all the way to the pacific ocean (0 foot altitude), the lowest altitude passes between many of the andes mountains in this area range from 15000 to 18000 feet, with mountain tops from 15000 to 26000 feet. While I don't expect to climb as high as the highest peak (over 26000 feet), I would like to be able to explore many peaks in the 15000 to 23000 foot range if feasible. Yes, obviously I'll have to carry a small oxygen bottle and breathing mask.... just as I would in the small single-engine airplane that I'm planning to buy (pipistrel virus sw with 912iS engine). One guy flew one of these airplanes over the top of Mount Everest, the crazy SOB, while on a solo flying trip around the world! The reason this airplane isn't sufficient for all my needs is... I won't be able to land any regular airplane on/near the top/rim of any/many of these mountains/volcanoes, whereas obviously not much room is needed to land and stop one of these paramotors.
#2: I would want to fly for as many hours as possible each trip (and the greatest distance possible too). Typically zero human beings live or work within tens to hundreds of miles of these peaks, so the logistics get vastly less hassle the further each flight can last.
#3: If one was to run out of fuel near the top of one of these mountains (say 20,000 feet for talking purposes), how far can one glide for every 1000 feet of lost altitude? In other words, what is the glide ratio for a heavily loaded craft (but zero fuel remaining) at high altitudes (15000 ~ 20000 feet). The idea is... if one can glide far enough, one could plan longer excursions by planning trips that consume all fuel (followed by gliding back to the starting points at lower altitudes (typically 10,000 to 15,000 feet).
#4: What kind of paramotor would you configure for such a purpose? That is, assuming there is such a thing.
#5: What considerations need I consider?
#6: Yes, I'm insane... but I lived and worked at high altitude observatories for many years of my life. So I'm a bit less insane than you imagine.
Thanks in advance for the information!
NOTE: To give you an idea of the kind of place and geology I'm talking about, click the following links to see a few photos:
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_altiplano_0011.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_valley_of_death.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_laguna_verde.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_valley_0011.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_alma_0011.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_paranal_0011h2.jpg
- www.maxreason.com/chile_atacama_paranal_0012.jpg
Hi there - Any update on this? :)
What's wrong with the bailey v5? Already a good 4stroke alternative on the market.
Děkuji Miroslav... great update 😊
+Heis aPilot we have some more stories to add already. Things are moving with this engine...
Sounds fantastic mate!
cheers..
Would love to know how this project is coming along.
Me and you both. Will be a good day when 4 stroke becomes main stream
So it’s been almost 2yrs since this post and SCOUT Paramotors isn’t currently offering a 4 stroke engine. Were your predictions of it being the best Paramotor engine a bit off? I like the idea of the 4 strokes as well, but only Blackhawk seems to be selling them, at least from what I’m seeing so far. Any updates on this engine?
When can I buy it on the Carbon Scout please?
March 2020 - Where's this motor at?
I would like to see Liquid Piston produce a rotary paramotor that is lightweight, powerful and fuel efficient.
Very interested, hope it won't take too long before we see it on the market, this is what we want in ppg. Bailey V5 sure great stuff, but heavier, and less power. Great to see Eos working on this.
I start to save right away, definitely something I would buy.
But, I really hope they take a look into fuel injection if there is anything they can optimize for ppg. That would be a game changer if it came in a nice package.
+Casper Nilsson it will take long. It's not fair to let the customers test the engine...
Yeah, I can wait the time needed, I know how many years it can take to make a reliable engine. And always nice to have something to look forward to.
I've been watching paramotor videos for about a month now and Woody mentioned prop torque. Prop torque causing the craft to turn. Has anyone considered dual counter spinning props? Or is it not worth the extra engineering and weight?
czcams.com/video/4LbyWoGGPFc/video.html ;)
Looks like the EOS Quattro 4 stroke is alive and looking to be released soon. Are you guys involved in the testing? Any plans to add this as an optional engine on future Scout purchases?
How long until we can get one
Hi Miro, whats the news on this engine? Is it going into production? Will the engine be available on its own and at what price?
Is it available? I don't see it on the website, and two years have passed...
Unfortunately not yet. Still in development. Seems to be more difficult than expected.
I'd be curious to see how this stacks up against the Nitro Tornado that was recently announced. If I can fly with a 4-stroke I will over a 2-stroke any day. However, I'm a big guy and I need a lot of thrust. I was even playing around with the idea of figuring out how to get the tornado mounted on the scout if possible. LOL
4 years on, any updates?
Whatever happened to this engine? A year and a half later I cannot see it on the website, did it not work out?
I would be so great, but still I don't see it for sale on their website... What happened?
what's your average speed when u burn about 2 litter fuel per hour?
Jan 10, 2020. Any updates? I’m guessing it didn’t go so well. Hopefully someday we’ll have reliable 4 stroke.
What's wrong with the Bailey v5
Any upates on this?
I've been doing a bunch of research on the engines and that's just a GY6 (150cc 250cc) engine they come in mopeds. it just doesn't have the CVT Drive.
Maybe it was a possibly nice alternative in 2017. Now it's more time to improve electric paramotors. Still loving the video, thank you! :)
Game changer fo sho. What is the rpm range?
any more up dates it's 2020 now brother?
Please make an update video with insights from your testing...you said that you intend to put 100 hours on this motor within two months...and that was 3 months ago. This 4 stroke game changer is such an interesting topic. Please give us an update even if there isn't anything new to share we still want to know what's happening.
Im excited! I would be more excited for EFI though. KTM is releasing a EFI 2 stroke this year which is awesome! The performance as well as range gains from a 2 stroke EFI engine would be monumental. Especially with how the sports environment changes so dramatically just in 1 flight. EFI would change the game. An actual developed and reliable EFI 2 stroke engine (not a EFI kit) in the industry would be unparalleled. I think we are about to see a lot of innovation come down the pipe line in coming years.
www.ecotrons.com/products/paramotor_engine_fuel_injection_kit/
Can we use 100 cc engine
Don't think that you should have the intake next to exhaust minor change could put the carburator facing up to get fresh air. Its getting heated air and also less oxygen..!
Lots less noise too with better fuel mileage with the new motor. I was wondering when it was coming out, probable price could be cheaper too! Don't have to wind it out launching it!
3 Kids? Good on you! (Me too ;) )
Trochu moc záběrů na ukecaného :-) designera a málo na motor - chce to vidět ho ze všech stran, parametry atp.
Love the sound of that engine! Any updates yet?
Ditto, updates please?
Damn this sounds a dream to fly.. silky smooth transition I expect... hhhhhhmmmmmm I want one!!
Hey Miro... What happened to the follow up to this 4 stroke motor?
The project is still alive. We did one update video last year.
Current status:
Exhaust problems solved
Lubrication problems seem to be fine but needs more testing
Engine increased from 240 to 290cc
New cylinder head with 4 valves instead of 2
Now facing some issues with cooling
3 prototypes being build now in the eos factory in austria. Hope to have the motor back for testing soon.
@@SCOUTaviation cheers dude... Thanks for a prompt reply 🙂
Greetings from Sweden 🇸🇪
Any updates?
Moin! Whats the status of this engine? Greetings from Germany. Ingo
Any updates????
Any updates on the production status for this motor? :)
Just saw the update video! Looks promising. I hope it all works out. It sounds like you are wanting to implement something similar to an oil catch can :)
www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/CTS_Turbo_MK7_Golf_R_8V_S3_Catch_Can_Kit-4863-581.html
That's seems to be a good engine, for now though I will stick to my trusty 185 monster with over 500 hrs. on it with out a rebuild. Good luck with it, might be the real deal.
As said in the video numerous times: The Vittorazi Moster Plus is the best engine on the market so far. Maybe until this comes out....
Any new updates?
Any time frame on this engine release? I'm looking to get into paramotoring soon
It would not be fair to let the customers test the engine... It will take time.
I will post some more update on this topic
I am not asking to test the engine, just wondering how long you think until it will be released. Thanks
I think what he is saying is, if they bring them out without fully testing them then the customers would be the ones testing and that would be a disaster.
Could it compete with a direct injected 2 stroke?
+David Vermillion there are a few experiments with fuel injection on two strokes but none of them made it to serial production... At least what I know.
I agree with fuel injection.... top it up with coaxial counter rotation smaller dual props and you have ultimate paramotor
czcams.com/video/4LbyWoGGPFc/video.html
Do me a favour - if I'm not mistaken this is a GY6 157 QMJ based engine - probably the commonest 4 stroke scooter motor on the planet made by dozens of China based manufacturers turning out clones of the original Honda engine it's based on. 18 to 20.5hp depending on what overbore kit you go for. Paul Bailey in the UK did it years ago with 5 versions. Looks like another CNC crankcase and overbore to me!
Have you tried Bailey Aviation 4-stroke? It is there on the market for ages. Same story: linear, fuel-efficient, quiet, etc. The paramotor update of some classic Honda in fact.
Does not come close in power and weight
Really interested. I like 4-strokes, but Bailey is a bit underpowered for me. Is it possible to compare the tech data? (There is nothing yet on EOS site).
Also: is it injector or still carb? I am very looking forward the injector motors, since I believe it has to improve start and run (the way it did in cars industry).
Thanks you!
It still isn't out though, right?
The top end looks exactly like a Bailey to me. Are they the same?
+Scott Harcourt the EOS is derived from Kymco scooter engine
SCOUT paramotor so thats a yes then !
Sounds like a lot more fine tuning necessary before sales.
Yup, looks like GY6 Scooter yet again, but I don't see fan cooling for the oil. Maybe more oil than a Bailey, but essentially looks the same. Same exhaust issues too. Donor Engine costs a few Hundred dollars. Nice $$$.
New update to this topic here: czcams.com/video/biSEx6dU5xU/video.html
Well done. Please manufacture to scale of interest!
I have been a PAP man for 4 paramotors (PA125, F200, Moster and now Thor250) in a row but this 4-stroke would be my ticket to change the frame too! Where do I send the money? ;)
haha, keep it for a while...
When will it get fuel injection?
Update PLZ.
Is it much Heavier than the same CC engine in a two stroke???
+randy beard you can't compare 2 stroke cc with 4 stroke cc.
This is a 240cc 4S with 26.5 HP.
It matches weight and power of 185cc 2S engines.
You have for sale now? ..
Far from it.
New cylinder and head to be tested now.
Capacity increased to 290cc
Has nobody ever heard of Bailey? They've been making 4 stroke motors for years, i'm going to fly mine this afternoon.
+General Disaster sure we had. I was even considering that for myself. The weight would not be a big issue but it had little power.
I have been waiting for a powerful 4 stroke for long...
How is this working out now?
It's a piece of crap
You should redirect the exhaust to the rear to reduce the noise.
Wirmish, if you redirected the exhaust to the rear then the exhaust would go through the prop area, perhaps that’s not a good idea. I really don’t know. It sounds like it might not be a good idea.
Nice
how about increasing the compression, but adding a flywheel weight for good balance and helping keep a consistent idle.
i would rather not sacrifice power.
titanium exhaust would help too.
as far as engine internals usually a forged connecting rod, crank ,and piston and good size bearings
stainless valves are tough too
cheers
+dimitri we already have a ton of new updates. Wait for the next video...
What is the displacement of this motor?
+Michael Dose 240cc
Thank you, I would have guessed something like that, but that is an excellent power to displacement ratio. Weight too of course. And still only 2 liters per hour, remarkable.
Why wasn't it tested with a three blade prop? Wouldn't it have been quieter, smoother and improve overall performance?
Price?