Should they stay or should they go? An expert's guide to the Parthenon Marbles spat • FRANCE 24
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- čas přidán 30. 11. 2023
- This week, the British prime minister was accused of "losing his marbles" by the opposition for refusing to talk to his Greek counterpart. Rishi Sunak cancelled a planned meeting with Kyriakos Mitsotakis because the Greek prime minister had told a reporter he wanted to discuss the possibility of Britain giving back the Ancient Greek sculptures, known as the both the Parthenon Marbles and the Elgin Marbles. Setting out both sides of the argument is our Perspective guest, Alexander Herman. He's the author of "The Parthenon Marbles Dispute" and director of the Institute of Art and Law. He spoke to FRANCE 24's Gavin Lee.
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My government's behaviour is always pretty awful, but this episode is just particularly petty. The sculptures were stolen from Greece by a rampant imperial power which regarded itself as a cut above the rest of the world. Now that reality has re-asserted itself, and most Britons realise we are just another country, they should be returned to their home. We have the technology to 3D print exact recreations, which 99% of visitors to the British Museum would not recognise as copies.
actually that is not quite true. the last thing i would like to do is defend the actions of a colonial power that has set the stage for most upheaval happening in the world today BUT: the sculptures were not stolen but obtained legally by the lord of elgin from their rightful owners as greece did not exist as a country at the time. after the venetian bombing and the near destruction of the parthenon in the 16th century most of the sculptures were still lying on the ground and turning into powder for building material for houses and churches. thousands of statues and dozens of temples have been destroyed in such way. the sculptures were the lucky ones. it is an honor that they should be housed in such a magnificent place and being viewed and appreciated by millions of people. modern greece has no claim to them...
@@gamotheos well the remain sculptures are in perfect condition in Athens museum i saw them my self , so that argument that they used as material for houses is just ridicules , people back then they new how important historically this sculptures was they just did not have the power to stop a thief
@@gamotheosA colonial power that civilised the world, and brought many societies out of the stone age and ignorance. You're welcome btw.
They weren't stolen you oikophobe, they were bought from the Ottomans.
It wasn't stolen. The Ottoman Empire, the government of the day, gave it / sold it to Lord Elgin. I prefer the other argument, it should be seen as a whole and so should be returned.
A countries art is its soul. The marbles belong in Athens. Just as all of the 'stolen, bought, borrowed etc' Its irrelevant and dishonest to hang onto them.
The worlds museums can have a replica with videos and even AI could be used.
Its morally right to act with dignity and integrity.
Well when Elgin brought them to Britain they were in danger of being broken up , How do you think they got damaged ? by the fairies
In my opinion they should be returned, they belong in Greece. The Greek government should pay for marble copies to be made and given to the British museum so the world can see the copies. That way everybody wins.
If i had stolen from you then i ("the thieve") would come back and sell it to you.... You find this a win win? You had be stolen and you must pay....
Well Im wondering why we have prisons.... All the thieves must be free give them the stolens and pay them😂
@@mariap8684accept it wasn’t stolen
How did he saved them? They were cut out with hammers and he destroyed them. Some sunk too.
A thieving Pom from 200 years ago who illegally sold it to the complicit government at the time does not hold up even today
The ones in Athens weren't destroyed so how could they have been destroyed they were stolen from the Greek people the rightful owners return them back.
As long as there is a minimum infrastructure to keep them safe, originals should obviously be in their home country. The museum can have exact copies as a cheap way for their audience to observe them.
Rofl, Athens has an amazing museum for the Acropolis marbles already
Return them to Greece.. obviously.
Must return them back to Greece of course , they belong there at the acropolis
Send back our national treasures....Parthenon Marbles.....Thefs Give them back...
Ελληνάκο μου εσύ. Μεγαλύτεροι κλέφτες από τα πατριωτάκια σου δεν υπάρχουν
The king wore the Greek tie a few days after ….the king is ultimately in charge and now he wore the tie days after the statues will be sent back ….all PM and members of parliament brown nose and jump when the king says or even hints ….
Perhaps you should return the other Parthenon marbles that are in the Louvre?
Probably safer in the British museum for now.
They are stolen...end of story!
They were privately purchased by the Earl of Elgin for his private collection. Later he sold them to the British Museum. Paid for fair and square, if Greece wants them then they can pay for them!
Museums are places where objects are exhibited, which were found or come from, the place that surrounds them. We would not think of the Beijing museum exhibiting Beethoven's original musicscores, even if 1,000,000,000 Chinese people visited them, or the Nairobi museum exhibiting Viking ships.
In 1800, when Elgin first saw the Acropolis, the Parthenon, and its cultures, my country was under Islamic occupation. However, the sculptures were there in their high position, from -500 to +1800, i.e. for 2300 years. Even the Islamists did not think to touch them.
Elgin presented false documents to the islamic governor of Athens. While the real document from the leader of the islamists in Constantinople gave him the right to draw them, and to put back in their place some that had fallen down, (strange for islamists, but true), he took huge saws and sawed them!
How about rescue! Is sawing the marble of an ancient temple salvage?
He wanted them to decorate his mansion in Scotland. His wife was in on it. She was together and chose which ones she liked to decorate her gardens. In a letter back to Scotland to her father, she wrote:
"Papa, today one of the Greek transport workers told me that last night he thought he heard one of the female statues crying".
This alone shows the sorrow of the Greeks for the theft that took place in front of their eyes, without them being able to react.
The sculptures were transported by ships. One of them sank due to greed, like an overload, and the sculptures remained at the bottom of the sea. When they were finally recovered again and arrived in Scotland, the thief had lost so much money that he had to sell them.
The British museum would not dare today to put on display a painting from a Ukrainian museum stolen by the Russians. In 1815 the Laws regarding antiquities were very different from today's.
If Hitler hypothetically occupied England in 1942 and the crown jewels of England were taken by a Japanese general, and today they were in the Tokyo museum, would the later liberated England ask for them back or not?
And let me not mention the bleach that was thrown back on the sculptures in 1930, to remove the blackness that had settled on them from London's atmospheric pollution, bleach that ate away at the limestone and erased its details from the faces and clothing of the sculptures.
Englishmen! You were a Roman province! I am sure there are thousands of Roman artefacts in your lands, both earlier and later, to display in a truly BRITISH Museum.
Anything else you exhibit that has been transferred in a questionable manner from areas you have dominated, or were dominated by others, contrary to the wishes of the local people, is the product of theft and you must return it.
After all, a visit to Athens costs the same as a visit to London. And just as we do not visit Panama to see Notre Dame, nor Moscow for the Pyramids of Egypt, it is equally crazy to say that we visit London to see the sculptures of the Parthenon that a thief took there.
We, the nation of all Greeks we ask them back since 1832, when we got back our liberty from islamic law of occupation. For once in history be on the right side of history, acknowledge the right of our demand, and return them back, even with all the damages they suffer the last 200 years. Our majestic Acropolis Museum has pré-réservated places for each one of them.
Πω πω !!!! θαυμάσια ανάλυση ευχαριστούμε
I'm Greek and I think that Britain should keep the sculptures IF AND ONLY IF they can built a Parthenon!
The prime minister has lost his marbles. 😂😂
If Greeks focused on arguments and not on disparaging the UK and the British, I would be in favor of their return.
"You can't be Greek because you don't think like us." Those wonderful democratic Neoellines.
who said that ?
@@Panos835 Read my earlier comment down below.
Give it back now the game are over now!!!!!
Ha ha ha, we're monopolizing the discussion about the stolen Parthenon sculptures (which the uneducated call "Elgin or Parthenon *marbles"),* so you can forget about the rest of the thousands of stolen Greek antiquities that are in other museums around the world, including French.
And Jesus answered them, "Give what belongs to Caesar..."
valid arguments I would love to see them in Greece , maybe a deal can be made that a few months in the UK a tour display , then residing back home in Greece, Museums are important , hope something can be arrange so both sides can be happy,
Best solution would be for the British Museum to return the sculptures and the Acropolis Museum sends them all the reproductions they have. This way the British museum still displays the reproductions which are highly accurate works of art themselves, just not original.
Even if visit to the british museum is free, think of revenues from tourists flying into Britain, staying and eating generated due to stolen artefacts and sculptures heavily contributing to british economy which could have benefitted countries whom these were plundered from by means of tourism. Also a "grand" collection of artefacts at one place is a nonargument in front of them being preserved and exhibited in their places of origin, in terms of novelty as well as ethics, ethos, justness and and adventure. But nothing in this matter sticks out as ugly as colonialist plunder associated with the whole thieves' market.
easy GO
A clever approach this via the Mona Lisa, if, in the same breath, Mitsotakis hadn't muttered "they are essentially stolen", which is the Kryptonite... still, he did handle the aftermath not too shabbilly, unlike the other guy...
I can't understand. The Mona Lisa is rightfully owned by France. Italy even gave it back promptly when it was stolen. There's no doubt about the fact Leonardo donated to the king of France
@@antoniousai1989 It's the reunification aspect he was putting forward, not the ownership one...
They should go. It's a matter of artistic integrity.
No is since 1830s they have been asking
Sunak is becoming a disappointment!
Greece should have played it differently. We should have convinced them to loan them back for a few weeks then never return them back. This is the only way to deal with this theft.
Άλλος ένας κουτοπόνηρος Βαλκάνιος.
they were removed legally, greece can certainly ask for their return, and we can certainly decline that request, end of !
Removed legally? :) Did you asked the Greek people?
Not at all, they were smuggled. And certainly Greeks did not give any consent
Lie, they were removed illegally as British historians concluded.
More like they were stolen "legally" XDD
Paid to be rescued. Lets go along with that. But not paid enough, to be kept. Is a rescuer, a keeper too? Sounds fishy...
As a Greek, I am perfectly happy with the sculptures staying in the British museum. The British seem to have more intellectual curiosity and a better academic spirit about classical Greece than modern Greeks who prefer cappuccino and ΠΡΟΠΟ. Furthermore, the childish behavior of Greeks online, which includes abusive comments about Britain and racism at Sunak, has been a turnoff. Final verdict: Keep them!
if you are Greek, which I doubt, and think this way, not caring about the theft of your cultural heritage, then you belong to the category you describe
The majority of British say they should be returned and a Greek says no ?
You're not a Greek
You are definitely not Greek..
🚨 Rishi Sunak burner account 🚨
@@giorgismaximos8662 They weren't stolen you clown, they were purchased from the Ottomans, who owned them by right of conquest; they are staying in Britain, so suk deepo.
This is the most ridiculous comment ever. And British go to pubs and get wasted. What is your point? I've been to the British museum most artifacts are not even from Britain. They profit from treasures which are not theirs. Its a disgrace. I admire the British ppl and I believe they can be better than that