Why The US Prison System Is The Worst In The Developed World | American Reaction
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 09. 2022
- Thank you for watching me, a humble American, react to Why The US Prison System Is The Worst In The Developed World. What an interesting perspective!
Thanks for subscribing for more UK reactions!
Honestly regarding the “what would the family think” - it actually doesnt matter, the government’s job is not to make them feel better but to fix the problem - the best way to fix it is by preventing it from happening again by helping the criminal to reintegrate into functioning society - if you do what the family wants, you will be there with another family in a few year cuz he did it again.
As for people trying to get in - that does happen, though usually through petty crime such as burglary - its sorta a new start for these people as usually it would only be attempted by someone in a no way out situation such as massive debt (which they can then work on fixing inside the prison)
While I agree with rehabilitating prisoners murderers shouldn’t be afforded this luxury at all
@@definitelynotatroll246 the thing is - where do you drive the line. Accident? Self Defense? Crime of passion? Its not that simple and more often than not the murderer regrets it just as much as anyone else - should they still be responsible? Absolutely. Do they deserve to never have a chance to do better? I dont think so
@@FuFightersStudio I get what you’re saying, question do you think they are giving this treatment to that guy who killed all those kids on that island?
@@FuFightersStudio and do you think he deserves to be rehabilitated?
The more I learn about the US, the more I despair. I know there are many good, even great people among you but US ethics, principles and governance are no better that those you routinely criticise such as China and India. The US is definitely not the land of the free, it's the land of the greedy where even a human life has a monetary value. Where the population is exploited by the super-wealthy. We used to call it slavery, we now see it as the American way of life.
Not sure about India. India is a democracy with some faults. I don't know enough about India to compare it to the US in detail.
But China is an autocracy. There is no freedom of anything in China. And maybe it has a lower incarceration rate than the US, but that is because they don't want to support such a prison system for smaller crimes like many drug related crimes. They have a lot of political prisoners though, while the US has none or close to none. And of course they oppress certain ethnic minorities much worse then that and use prison camps to do so. You do not have to imprison that many people to oppress a society, you just have to imprison the right ones.
That's how even the Soviet Union got away with imprisoning less people. You only have to imprison the few that try to rise up now and then once your regime is established.
All true but just remember that the citizens don't deserve the largest part of the blame for this. Some percentage of blame for not staying engaged in the political process, we definitely deserve. Fair enough. But the people at the top have been slowly rigging this system against us for decades. They underfund our education system on purpose so as a society we get dumber and dumber. They make sure that we're so overworked we don't have time to research who the best candidates are. We barely have time to watch the news.... which has really more become news entertainment since it became a 24/7 cable affair. Our media is owned by the top 1% so the messages they're always pumping out get indoctrinated into the minds of the people. And we all just sleepwalk through life hoping not to wake up and be forced to really see and feel how bad they're fucking us over. When you wake up from the Matrix-like life you've been living and realize the reality of it, it's a mind fuck.
George Carlin was incredible to have seen and been talking about all this decades ago.
Don’t forget the Quantanamo prisons.
Most, if not all, haven’t been judged. They’re sitting in cages and haven’t had their cases tested in a trial before a judge.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 💯% truth. Just the existence of that place is an injustice and against international laws. Horrific humanitarian crimes have happened there and they can't even really be held accountable for the place since they purposely placed it off US soil, if I'm understanding it right. The few stories that have come out of that place have been horror stories.
My 51 year old childish hopeful brain still wants to hope that things will get better on earth but I've lived too long and seen too much and I just don't think that's how things will go. As the climate gets worse and more people start to suffer from the effects, human behavior will begin to devolve into wars over land, water and likely power, too.
What will happen to me in that new world? What can I do but sit here and wait? And, as a disabled middle-aged old fart, I'm absolutely terrified.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 I also recall George W Bush suspending the right of habeas corpus in the early 2000s after 911 specifically so they could indefinitely detain prisoners in that place. Habeas corpus was the right of everyone in the US, citizen or not, enemy combatant or not, to request a fair trial and an attorney. I'm assuming they've unsuspended it at this point but knowing the US govt, my assumptions are really built on a house of cards. 🤦🤷
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” (Fyodor Dostoevsky)
He knew what he was talking about: he himself had been in prison for four years.
In his time, in the 1850s, it was customary for those sentenced to imprisonment to be given an additional corporal punishment: 500, 1000 or 2000 strokes of the cane.
Described in: Dostoevsky - The House of the Dead.
Not Dostoevsky, but Voltaire
The way the police behave is a good indicator of how the population behaves too , if the police are heavy handed and trigger happy ..... It's because they need to be ... welcome to America
@@djdeemz7651 In a few isolated cases that might be true, but overall, american cops are way too rash and trigger happy, they lack the training to know how to de-escalate situations, American police officers recieve only a fraction of the training their European equivalents do, for example in FInland you have to complete a 3 year long education that is purpose built, in the US according to my research the purpose built education takes between 4-6 months, which is just laughable!
'A nation's decency and humanity is shown by how it (the nation) treats the weakest and most vulnerable'.
This is not to say that "prisoners" are always the most vulnerable. Just meant in general terms. (spoken by some Swedish Prime Minister in the 1960:s
In the Nordic countries the punishment is taking away their freedom. The inmates are treated fairly and with dignity and the emphasis is layed on rehabilitation. Cause we know that the Inmate can become our neighbour someday. Inmates also keeps their citizenrights during the sentence and have the right to vote for government from inside the prison.
Yes you`re correct
Same in Germany: The Punishment is taking away your freedom. Every prisoner will get released some day, so every citizen has to ask themselfe: Do I want a fromer prisoner in my neighborhood who was treated humanly in prison and was given the possibility to learn a productive non criminal life or do I want a neighbor who was held like an animal in prison?
@@stirbjoernwesterhever6223 Not all prisoners can be released. Some of them just can't be released to society.
Second longest prison sentence in Finland has been 22 years. He got life sentence at age of 25 for murdering elder person. He was released in 2012. Only a month later he murdered his drinking buddy. He's still in prison. So, he has been in prison for 30+ years.
@@UltraCasualPenguin That is true, but imprisonment after your senteced punishment is no longer punishment but protection of the public and in Germany the conditions have to be better than in prison and a judge must prove the necessitiy from time to time.
part of the punishment is removal of freedom, and that should translate to politics. if you're incarcerated you don't get to have a say in terms of government. it's part of the price for criminality.
There is a basic difference between the concept of imprisonment in the U.S. and Europe: The U.S. aims for punishment of the criminal. In the EU, the criminal should be rehabilitated and returned to society. That difference explains a great deal.
The US prison system is, unfortunately, revenge-based - the usual reference being what the family of the victims might want. To make things worse, a large chunk of it is also profit-based.
In comparison, the Norwegian prison system is rehabilitation-based. As a result they have only 20% of released prisoners return to prison within 5 years (called recidivism rate), compared to the 'Murican rate of over 70%.
The actual "secret": 'Murican prisons are in the business of creating returning customers!
The US is fast becoming an inhumane slavery state! In comparison, Norway IS Utopia.
Same in Canada
And the U.S. prisons are often for profit!
One day they are expected to be able to be your neighbor. Do you want them treated inhumanely and get more pissed off at society, more stigmatized? Even more criminal than when they went into prison?
@@user-lv6rn9cf8m That's exactly why countries like Finland and Norway have completely changed their system.
"What kind of person you want as coworker/neighbour?"
The "what would the family think" question. As a German the consensus is: "Torturing or killing someone will not undo the deed, reforming the perpetrator will prevent other others from suffering."
And because reintegration is the goal there are no lists of known murders, rapists and the like.
The American system breeds criminals, desensitized and brutal. If a person was in jail and sees the feels the need to do it again, he will do a *lot* to prevent being caught, and this can include torture and murder. And even knowing someone who went to an American prison will change the way that person commits a crime.
I'm German and I think the German system is too soft. Especially for crimes like rape. I think there should be a list. Especially for those touching minors. Those ppl don't deserve "rehabilitation " and in most cases they just continue doing it
@@Angelika5378 It's always so easy to judge if you're on the sidelines.
"and in most cases they just continue doing it"
That's false.
There is a reason why we don't have public shaming as a punishment any more.
Make a list and then try to remove someone from it who is innocent, when the list has gone public.
Such list will mark a person for live and will guide people to discriminate against the persons on the list or even if they only have a similar name.
@@boelwerkr good to know that you prefer child molesters to run free instead of them being in prison or a psychiatric institution.
Offenders should be on a list as soon as they commit the crime a 2nd time at the minimum.
1 time can be fals accusations but not 2
@@Angelika5378 "good to know that you prefer child molesters to run free instead of them being in prison or a psychiatric institution."
Tell me you have no clue about the german justice system without telling me you have no clue about the german justice system.
The most important principle is this:
Rehabilitation isn't about "deserving" it's about social cost. A member of the workforce produces a lot of value over his worklife. Locking a person up for live removes that economic potential. If a person can be rehabilitated, doing so is an economic benefit to society.
If we can take a rapist, even one of pedophile persuasion, and transform them into an upstanding citizen then that's a good thing. And we should do it.
The only case were rehabilitation isn't the solution is were it doesn't work. In Germany such people are kept in the socalled "Geschlossene Anstalten". Legally this internment is not a punishment but a protection of society, which may seem like hair-splitting, but it means that there is no way of getting out (and "run free") other than proving your successfull rehabilitation (which may prove complicated).
@@YunoGasai-cj6us but rapists don't change. You can try rehabilitation after one offence but not multiple ! How many chances do you want to give someone who is ruining peoples lives?? Also i said the german system is too soft. Not everyone can be rehabilitated. Not everyone wants to be. They can work at the prisons. We don't need them in society. Pedophiles that act on their urges should be chemically castrated and locked up forever
I live in the UK and my next door neighbour was in prison for 4 years after an attempted murder (there is more to it but that takes to long) he was able to come out of prison for the day to go to work at a company that his social worker acquired for him after the first three years and also come back to his house to sort things out, he could also see his kids. Anyway he's been out for two years now and he's not done anything against the law, he's a nice man, loves his kids. He said he deserved the punishment he got for what he did, he felt guilty about it and that he shouldn't have gotten so angry before talking it out with the guy he almost killed and that he would never do it again.
Yeah, most European countries do it similar to that. The Finnish example is probably the same. The guy probably served something like 15 years and is now a year or so from being completely released.
People have to be punished, but they also should not be destroyed and you have to help them back into society.
US prisons instead try to break people, then throw them back on the street without any preparation and on top set up some rules to make it harder for them to get on their feet. And they do it for very minor crimes in comparison.
Most people agree that a murderer has to be punished in a really notable way. But a drug user or small dealer (most likely dealing to support his own use). Who is is victim? People that wanted to buy drugs themselves? There isn't a need for a sever punishment to satisfy any social need for justice. It is much more important to enable these people to lead a different live.
Forced labour in the American prison system where the inmates have no choice is slavery, nothing less than that. What is sickening is the American government then turns around and criticises the Chinese prison system for....wait for it....forced labour. The whole concept of slavery in American prisons is abhorrent and cruel. Your constitution had an amendment, the 13th which made slavery illegal.....except in prisons where it is still legal. As a non-American I know this, what surprises me is Americans see nothing wrong with slavery.
I think that we British and other Europeans, are HORRIFIED to see prisoners
walking around in chains ! Something never ever seen here !Totally dehumanising.
Here, prisoners dont even attend court hearings in chains or handcuffs
and always wearing their own clothes for the occasion.
@@marycarver1542 Isn't it, 'innocent till proven guilty.'?
A work camp where the prisoners get abused mentally and physically, while in an unbearable climate, doing no paid forced labor. This description fits the gulag's from the Sovjet Union and also of the prisons in Texas
what does make sense is prisoners needing to do comunity service, but prison can not pocket a cent from anything. prisoners get paid to go to store etc, and to kinda pay back for the upkeep of the institution. That would requiere suprise visits and documenting stuff, so it cant turn corrupt.
@@DageLV Repaying their debt to society, absolutely. But it should be sort of a bonus. You get to work and earn money if you behave, and those who can't stay proper, could use that privilege. Because that's what it is, a privilege.
No wonder the US is the richest country in the world the government and corporations treat the population so badly.
Over here ( in England ) I`ve often wondered how Brexit ( our departure from the European Union ) politicians justify their move. I also very frequently hear - from people that voted Brexit - that we should be `freed from the shackles of the European Union` and able to trade independently with any nation we like - very in particularly with the United States.
I ask them if they think that the United States has not noticed that us Britons are paid a National Minimum Wage of very close to £10:00 per hour, that we have a statutory entitlement to 5 weeks paid holidays per year, and that we also are entitled to a number of paid `sick days` per year. My question to them is, `why would an American Company come here and employe British workers under such terms and conditions ? Yet it is the relatively poor Briton that voted to leave the European Union.
Lizz Truss ( our new Prime Minister ) and her new Chancellor of the Exchequer - Kwazi Kwarteng - are on record as saying that us English are overvalued in the workplace.
My point is that those who voted to leave the EU on a promise of getting something out of the United States have been fooled - on the grounds that we are going to have to put up with the same working conditions as you over there, come a trade deal.
@@dogwithwigwamz.7320 Before the European Union the UK used trade a lot more with Australia and New Zealand. I know the UK and Australia recently signed a trade deal but I don't know what it enta8ls. I guess it includes goods that the Europeans said could only be got from them.
Hi, Heather. What you say seems like a sound Ideology. But pause and think. New Zealand and Australia are both as far as one may get in the world.
More to this, their combined population is no more than half that of the UK. The European Union serviced 47% of our entire Export Industry ( whilst the UK purchased / serviced 8% of EU exports ).
Suppose, then, the UK and the EU mutually agreed not to trade a single dollar.
The European Union would lose 8 cents out of each dollar whilst the UK would lose 48 cents.
As I surmised, yours is a sound ideology.
Please feel free to rebutt.
@@dogwithwigwamz.7320 I know it's best for the UK to trade with the European Union as it's much closer. I'm only stating facts that have occurred and I have no ideology. I have not stated my own opinions.
@@heatherfruin5050 Yes, that might have been the case, but... that was still based on the Commonwealth and more colonization-based thinking.
In the meantime, a lot has changed in those aspects - and to the better.
I remember a German talkshow where a murderer was invited after he could the prison after 20 years. He shared his mindset he had at the time when he murdered someone not trying to excuse anything. Now, he is involved in working with young people, that are on a similar path he was when he was young, He can help more than someone without such a background. His objective is to avoid that one of the kids will do the same, although he knows, that he will never know the reached that goal.
A lot of prisoners could be a valuable asset for society as social workers. Because no matter how much you study, you will never fully grasp the mindset of someone who lived in poverty or was heavily abused as a child unless you experience something somewhat similar. Having a social worker with the same socio-economical background as some offenders/ potential future offenders may prevent a lot of crimes to be done from the get go, because in that way you can speak their language and deliver the message in a way it can actually reach those people.
Just to get the point across of how bad the US prison system is:
It would literally violate the first article in the german constitution by default.
Article 1: "Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state authority to respect and protect it."
The US prison system also violates multiple articles of the European Convention on Human Rights
When I read our German constitution for the first time, I didn't give the first article any thought and took it for granted. Over the years I have become more and more aware of the effect these two sentences have on our lives.
Throughout human history, most or all constitutions have had (and mostly still have) the unwritten preamble "Human Dignity? - What about it?"
"Human Dignity"™-- Made in Germany
Also in Italy it would violate two artcles of our constituton. The third: "All citizens have equal social dignity and are equal in front of the law, without any distinction on the base of sex, race, language, religion, political opinions, personal and social conditions. [...]" and the thirteenth: "The personal liberty is inviolable. [...] Is to be punished every phisical or moral violence on people with their liberty restricted. [...]"
@@RalfSteffensalso germany is one of the few, if not the only state where an attempt to run away from prisson is not punished because germans understand the desire of liberty we have inside
and still you have stories of a dude burning in his cell in a german police station and coviniently no cameras were filming ... there are some really crazy stories of "unsolved deaths" in prison, police arrest or detainment, that make you realize, we do have some corrupt and brutal cops and prison guards here in germany aswell. but the overall atmosphere is much more easy going compared to the us, no doubt about it.
Slavery, period.
Instead of education and rehabilitation, slavery.
Greetings from Germany.
The last time we put forced labour on prisoners everyone had a problem with it, deserved I must say. And now they do the same.
When Albert Einstein fled from Nazi Germany to the US he was asked after some weeks, how he likes his new home. He said: "I left Barbaria an arrived in Dollaria." Still true.
The question "what would the family think" can easily be turned around if you think one step further.
Imagine someone commits a crime (not necessarily for murder, maybe something less) and goes to prison. There, they serve their sentence in an environment where no effort is made to rehabilitate them, where instead they're set up to learn that violence rules the world because that's how they're treated by the guards and other inmates. Then, after they're released, they end up murdering someone.
What would the family of *that* victim think, knowing they might still be alive if the prison had actually made an effort to turn the criminal into a better person?
what if the family thinks about committing crimes themselves
But actually that is another criticism of the US justice system as the families of the victims have next to no compensation which for some families can be a real game changer.
Some countries in Europe are experimenting with more reconciliation between criminal and victim which can actually be very emotionally devastating and massively increase the amount of guilt. US prison systems often do the opposite and eliminate guilt. If you get tortured way worse than what you did then you will not feel regretful for your actions, you'll just feel angry at the system.
The country that is working on reconciliation the hardest right now is Czechia who has quite a complicated ritual for that.
Also, what about the families of the many prisoners that are murdered inside prison?
You said it right. This mostly European prison systems probably wouldn't work in the US right now, because you lack any form of social security. Prisons in Europe are still that - prisons. We in Germany have little to no incentive to go to jail willingly, because, as comfortable as they look, life outside is still better than inside. You are still restricted and a prisoner, people often seem to forget that. Nations should always look critically at themselves if they think prisons in other nations look comfortable. That says some serious things about your own country and none of them are good.
But also there is a much more powerful thing to deter crime and it goes back to the very definition of "crime" which is the social contract. There is a social contract that everyone kind of signs with society on what they do and what they can expect. "Crime" is when that social contract is broken. The Norwegian prison system is build with that in mind, that restoring the social contract is the way to rehabilitate people. That they make it clear what society is expecting of them and what is and isn't acceptable.
When the state breaks the social contract you will get revolts. In a way strikes are that as well when the corporation breaks the social contract it has with it's workers. The social contract is that workers are expected to live a comfortable life cause they life in a "rich" country and if the companies don't fulfill that end of the social contract the workers won't do it either.
there is an interview of a norwegian father on the internet somewhere (whos child was killed) talking about the "how does the family feel" thing. he said it wont bring his boy back, so why should another person suffer more i believe.
Yes, that was in the film/documantairy "Where to invade next" by Michael Moore.The murderer was Breivik, who committed a mass shooting on teenagers on an island.
I can see that. The American in me wants to say if it was my loved one I want them to suffer like I'm suffering. but yeah at the end of the day my loved one isn't coming back and I'm just losing myself to vengeance. I'm a bit conflicted now thinking about it.
@@neffyg35 There is a difference between the very humane feeling of wanting to attack the person who made you (or a loved one) suffer and letting the need for revenge take over your conscience and integrity. In the US, the latter is considered normal when, in fact, it is not.
@@carmenl163 Long time ago I read an article about how US families felt after the murdered of a loved one was finally executed. Reactions were all over the board. From people who said it was a waste of one more life, to people who felt avenged, people who said it didn't do anything to them but left glad that person was no longer a threat to society... overall I think it was a 50/50 between betwen who felt it positively or negatively, but among the 50% that felt it was a positive thing, relatively few of them fel it was personnally helping them dealing with the loss of their loved one. So overall even people directly affected by it feel that the Death penalty is not a positive thing, on an emotionnal level.
But yeah, Americans are taught to believe it's a requirement of sort.
"There are two ways to interpret every law, one for the rich, and one for the rest of us" is such a powerful quote
In the U.K. I think the aim is to rehabilitate particularly in cases where it’s not life imprisonment. Because when the prisoners are released, if they’ve lost all their family and friends, can’t find work… these are triggers to reoffend. They need a support system, income, somewhere to live, a reason to not commit crime again.
You can still punish people. But you have to try and break the cycle. Norway ‘s system is very impressive.
Yup. A prisoner with no outlook after release is more likely to reoffend. If all you know is selling pot at the street corner, guess what you do when you get out.
"What would the victim's family think..." For many years now (including the 3 I spent in the US) I have the very strong impression - and I don't mean to offend anyone here - that the American society has been conditioned to think of the justice system as a means of revenge. I've listened to many Victim Impact Staements and press statements of family members and that was the overall feeling: they want the perpetrator to suffer, somehow that gives them satisfaction. And look where it takes you people. i don't know who said it, but he was very right: an eye for an eye - that will result in a world of blind people. I'm sorry but I have a very low opinion on people who want others to suffer because they themselves have suffered. As if a second wrong will make the first one right. The European ideal is to make society better as a whole and the best satisfaction a victim's family member can have is that the community did it's best to make their world better and safer. I think there's no better way to honor the victim's life or pain then to use it to achieve something good.
And you know what? Even the "innocent until proven guilty" is sometimes just a concept without reality. Do you know how many African American and Latino people sit in jail for nothing? Only because the state appointed lawyers will tell them to plead guilty, even when they're not. "If you plead not guilty and the jurors don't like you, you'll end up getting a far worse sentence". It's no accident that while the incidence of crime is pretty much the same for all races, one in three black men will go through the grind of the justice system on some way! Then they'll get out (those who do) and find themselves with almost zero opportunities to get a job, rent a home, their voting right is gone, they'll never get a passport, they're not allowed to work certain jobs and so on. They did nothing wrong, they've been duped into taking a guilty plea while innocent and their future is destroyed. Oh, and according to the US Academy of Sciences statistically 4 % of the people sitting on Death Row at any time are innocent.
And they claim to be the most Christian nation on Earth! They make fun of Europeans for being unbelieving atheists, they don't go to church, they don't pray in schools and they don't say a table blessing before eating. How religious they are! But when a crime is committed, they hysterically demand revenge and punishment! In general, the death penalty and extremely long prison sentences, zero tolerance laws, ruthlessness, etc. are supported in religious states. etc.
They are not even real Christians, just hypocrites. They believe that Christianity is when a person goes to church on Sundays and sings "Jesus loves you!" Or the demands to bring back the school prayer, or the practice of the table blessing. Or a lot of bible reading.
The reality is that this is not what Christianity is all about! It's just a hypocritical exterior. Christianity means the daily practice of love, forgiveness and compassion. Christianity should be a way of life. From this point of view, Europeans are much more Christian than Americans.
@@antiglobalist8229 many will say that not all Americans are like that. True, and all due respect to those who don't act and speak like that. But a clear majority falls into that sick category and every single national election is clear proof of that. Try getting elected to a national office as an openly atheist person! Try getting elected as someone who doesn't promise to be "tough on crime"! It's not going to happen. Religious discrimination might not be enshrined in law but it is so deeply rooted in societal thinking that it comes to the same: if you're not a Christian you won't get anywhere, in fact in many places, states and regions you are not eligible even for a school board membership unless you're a Bible thumping bigot. Somehow they all bought into this sick logic that religion - specifically Christianity - is the only key to morality and whoever doesn't adhere to that religion has to be an immoral person. Sometimes I don't understand why they hate Taliban and other Muslim extremists so much, because apart from some tenets of religion, when it comes to society, morality, women's and children's rights, justice and law they would agree on most things.
4% death row people were only proven innocent
there could be a lot more who were actually innocent
an even larger amount could have gotten to the sentence for petty crimes
@@supermaximglitchy1 You are right! 50% of all death penalties are overturned in a higher court.
Referring to American prisons; there is one state we lived in where visitors of inmates were required to pay $1.00 per day charged to inmates before they could visit them. The visitor could also put money into a commissary account so the prisoner could purchase instant coffee, chips, socks, underwear, teeshirts, etc. since they were unable to earn money or have it sent. In return the prisoners were treated like animals and a great percentage had severe mental illnesses since we don't have help for these people in the U.S. when they are on the outside. They all come out far worse and more damaged than when they went in. They go right back to the self harmful behavior they went in for; driving intoxicated and/or using illicit drugs to self medicate. No Therapy with rehabilitation programs. The jails and prisons are filthy and dangerous and mentally ill people prone to stress get pushed over the edge ending up with lice, scabies, same sex rape and PTSD on top of their other conditions. Many are thrown I isolation - a black square hole 4x4 with a small hole to urinate and deficate. No light or interaction for days sometimes weeks. Bread and water. No pillow, no blanket and freezing. This was a womens prison I witnessed south of Richmond, Virginia.
We have a similar discrimination in Australia towards the aboriginal people. It’s disgusting and vile. The difference is our prison system is not for profit. I don’t know which is worse.
Slavery it seems was never abolished in the States, maybe just given a different name.
It's interesting to see how ingrained the retribution mentality is in you. But you have to remember that these these nordic countries work to benefit society as a whole. The US is all about individual satisfaction.
Thanks bro! Good video and reaction! But like in both Norway and Finland "the murderers" do not roam free!! They do hard time for a long period before they are allowed to these "open" prisons. And most of all, you really have to earn it! And if you do not behave/follow the rules to the point, your ass is in "the big house" right away. The biggest difference is to treat people normally and support their future life out side of the prison. To put it simply, what kind of a neighbor do you prefer? A former convict with a job and maybe a family or one with out "anything"/any means to make it in the society? Best regards from Finland!
For the question "what would the families of the victim think?"
A culture with a prison system built around punishment above rehabilitation goes hand in hand with an infused desire for vengeance. In germany for example it absolutely doesn't matter what the families might think. The system is built, there is a catalogue of punishments for certain crimes and the extend is decided by the actual case. For example: If someone comits a crime what is punished by law with prison up to a year, the judge will look at the intention, the circumstances, the methods and will decide if it's one year what would be the maximum or maybe half a year or 2-4 months. There is also no Jury in germany. Citizens with no exams of law studies have to get their noses out of such decisions. Vengeance have no place in questions about a human existance.
What I'm missing in the original video is another bad incentive: Disenfranchisement of prisoners even after they finished their sentence. This makes it an easy way to get rid of voter groups you don't like, and I believe this is one reason for exploding numbers in the US. After all it's released to the public by now that this was the reason why Nixon started the war on drugs in the first place. This also doesn't happen in other countries.
The thing is I'm sure when it comes to the numbers in prison the response from a number of Americans will be "USA NUMBER 1!"
Those guys probably also think that all other countries let their criminals run rampant as a result of having fewer prisoners.
Not to mention the racism inhgerent to the system that the video also hinted at.
Norwegian here, I am so proud of our prison system!
The whole US system of lobbying and 'donations' needs to change; in just about any other civilised country, what goes on in the USA would be considered corruption and the people involved would be - if they were lucky - sacked from their jobs.
This!
Look into Portugal's drug policies, I feel like you'd be interested
They basically decriminalized all usage and used law enforcement funds that came free for non-profit addiction centers if I remember correctly
In UK we have not had the death penalty since late 50s early 60s. We are about rehabilitation because it works for most. Our inmates can earn money in many ways. Our prison guards are not allowed to harm a prisoner.
Unfortunately, many Americans (including victims and their families) aren't really interested in actually finding the guilty party as much as they feel an unstoppable urge to find someone to blame - i. e. a scapegoat.
-- How often do the police zero in too quickly on a "person of interest" just to seem effective?
-- How often is evidence that might confirm innocence deemed inadmissable in court and willfully withheld to strengthen the prosecutor's case?
-- How often are financially disadvantaged suspects
--- 1.) unable to make bail, and therefore forced to remain in jail ("innocent until proven guilty" be damned)
--- 2.) dependent on an often overworked and/or disinterested public defender, because they can't afford independent legal representation, or
--- 3.) strong-armed into accepting a plea bargain - even though they really are innocent - simply because it's more convenient for everyone else involved?
So many Americans are being bamboozled by the *illusion* of (personal) safety, that they actually confuse it with real justice.
I live in Denmark and work in the Correctional Service. We are similar to Norway in this respect. We always think that the inmate should go out and be someone's neighbor, colleague, etc. That is why rehabilitation is at the top of our work
In my town about 3 people broke out of the prison. I am living pretty close to the prison. One of the convicts wanted to go back inside, since he was rather dragged out against his will. They didn't let him go in, so to make sure not to get into further trouble, he called someone for help. Keeping the people informed of what did happen, so he wouldn't get into further trouble. Also, breaking out of prison is not a crime. Only the damage you are doing, while breaking out is a crime. I am glad I don't live in the US.
i saw yesterday online about Prison in the Netherland. The Netherland has 7000 empty Prison cells. The goverment already sell Prision. Close to Amsterdam bought the University a Prison. Today is in the Prison a Campus from the Haarlem University, And Start Up Firms, Company's rent the cells, also student can use cells for meetings. A another Prison is today a 5 Star Hotel. You can also rent for events some Prison from the goverment, Then empty Prison cost also money.The Netherland has only 54 Inamtes per 100 000 Inhabitants. In Europe is reahbilitation importend and not punshment. So they i have it easier to find jobs and apartment to start a new life.
The whole of northwestern Europe has the same philosophy to a more or lesser extent. Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Austria are in this group (in that order, I believe).
is it true that former prisoners lose their right to vote? losing ones freedom is supposed to be the punishment, not going to jail FOR punishment, at least in a forward thinking freedom loving country!!
Yeah it is true... though not for all states, but ...
"As of 2008, over 5.3 million people in the United States were denied the right to vote due to felony disenfranchisement.[17] In the national elections in 2012, the various state felony disenfranchisement laws together blocked an estimated 5.85 million felons from voting, up from 1.2 million in 1976. This comprised 2.5% of the potential voters in general. The state with the highest number of disenfranchised voters was Florida, with 1.5 million disenfranchised[18] because of a current or previous felony conviction, over 10% of the voting age citizens, including the 774,000 disenfranchised only because of outstanding financial obligations. In October 2020, it was estimated that 5.1 million citizens were disenfranchised for the 2020 presidential election on account of a felony conviction, 1 in 44 citizens.
taken from ("en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_the_United_States)
In Germany there are a few crimes for what the judge can stripe the right to vote, if the judge ordered this in special cases.
@@stirbjoernwesterhever6223 yes superfew crimes: treason, hightreason and crimes infringing the integrity of the voting process - that's all.
@@Balleehuuu Wait, combine this with the two-party system and the party currently in power could just make new laws targeted specifically at incriminating, imprisoning and thus disenfranchising people who are more likely to vote for the opposing party.
@@BunjiKugashira42 I'd like the federal government and by that I mean the democrats to make some changes here, but for what I know this is something state legislative is responsible for and a law on federal level to deal with that problem would be very unusal. Combine that with the fact bringing forward a law which can be polemicized as being "soft on crime" will not stick well with huge part of the undecided voters in rural areas, I find it very unlikely to happen - no matter the possible positive outcomes ...
If you watch the series (Inside the world's toughest prisons) about the guy (previously incarcerated for life in the UK for a crime he didn't commit) that goes into prisons the world over to see what it's like as an inmate, it gives you a very good perspective of how each country perceives criminals and what it hopes to do with them. Countries like Norway are also in this program and they show in detail exactly why these facilities are so effective at rehabilitation opposed to punishment and correction.
What is also interesting is that the death penalty is literally a human rights violation.
I recommend videos showing these systems in more detail. Like "What German Prisons Do Differently" by Vera Institute of Justice. Compared it's like a spa resort. But it is a high risk prison allowing murderers working in their kitchen with butcher's knifes or in workshops with welding equipment, drilling machines or saw. Young prisoners often study there or got job training with fully state recognized examinations.
When you hear and read this, it's like you're in a horror movie. What is being done is a violation of human rights of the highest order. Since one comes already in prison if one has a fly on the wall clapped. And for the work 12 cents per hour to pay unimaginable. That is slavery at the highest level. These operators should themselves be brought to justice for crime, because it is nothing else. Criminals enslave criminals, only these criminals do not sit in cells but in their offices and count their money.
"'...guilty people take plea deals..." ... my poor summer child.
Question: Does these "plea deals" exists anywhere else than USA? Like in Finland it doesn't matter at all if you plea guilty. They still have to prove that you're guilty and the court decides the punishment, not the prosecutor.
@@kimnicenot sure. In Portugal is the same as in Finland
6:40 (ish) - you mention about trying to think about things from all sides, and how it makes sense to have a lower pay rate in prison because room and board is already funded.
What that video missed out (surprisingly), and what many people don't know, is that most prisons fall under a "Pay-to-Stay" system. I think currently only two States have repealed the system, and a handful of States have restricted it to only "The worst crimes". But for a great many of those who have spent time in prison, they can expect to receive a bill for their room and board after they leave, and find themselves back in front of a judge of they fail to keep up payments.
Imagine a prisoner gets released and now lives in the house next to you. Quiz: Would you rather want him...
A) ...to be aggressive and violent, because he learned to be to survive in prison and be bored all day because no one will employ him
B) ...to be calm, self reflected and educated and have a job already arranged before he even left prison?
The difference between the systems is simple. In the rest of the world, prisons are an expense. In the US, money is earned with it. So the more there are in prison, the more I earn. More laundry, more food, more for everything. So no money for therapy or guidance to stay out of prison. But outside the prison a life as bad as possible.... so that you get back in prison as soon as possible. Businesslike
There are some services that should never be in the hands of private companies: Education, Health and I suppose Prisons as well.
Basically every single aspect of the bare nececities of a social system
Hello there! I just watched a program on Finnish TV. It appears that some of our prisoners are being taught how to go grocery shopping and how to prepare ordinary meals for themselves. It was much appreciated by the inmates, many of whom had no idea even of how to fry an egg. These days the prisoners are being taught all kinds of practical skills that they lack and that will help them to adjust to life outside once they have served their sentence.
Seems like a good idea to me. The courses also activate them and make them feel that they can accomplish something positive, perhaps even gives them a better self-image, all of which may reduce the likelihood of their coming back to prison. It also steers them more into having an ordinary life with a future.
In addition, they can of course learn all kinds of skills (computer science is very popular) or take university courses to obtain some academic degree. This looks very unrealistic, but with high literacy skills and small groups, it is feasible.
Revenge and punishment (beyond incarceration) seem totally justified at first glance, but an eye for an eye, and capital punishment are signs of a fanatical mindset, a fanatical person, group or state.
I guess the best way to rationally think about "what the family wants" would be to compare it to the "an eye for an eye makes the world blind" kind of metaphor.
What society needs and what a few individuals want is not necessarily the same, just like justice isn't synonymous with revenge.
The worst thing is that they are still using the death penalty.
The thing is, I see arguments for and against capital punishment. So much that I don't want to be in charge of implementing or abolishing it. It's just too big of a decision and both sides have their pros and cons.
@@HappyBeezerStudios There is no pro to the death penalty. There is not one single argument that a civil society would support. All the so-called 'pros' are defeated by statistics.
regarding the “what would the family think” it doesnt matter ... the american way of "eye for an eye" is what makes you think that way ... punishment doesnt help anyone expect peoples worst feelings.
It goes pretty well in line with american "I" culture opposed to european "we" culture.
In this regard, you should watch some videos about prison in other countries - i.e. "What German Prisons Do Differently", and/or even better, "Norway's Humane Prisons (Maximum Security Halden Prison)"
The crimminal justice system in the U.S. is Crimminal
Now that you know how you shouldn't do it in the US they should take a look at how other countries do it. How their prisons look, how their prisoners are treated etc.
They most certainly should yet they most definitely won't
I think an important thing to bear in mind is, I'd say, the two largest factors to why people commit crimes would be, desperation, and lack of empathy. It's easier for a human to hurt another if they feel that human isn't part of their group. In other words, if someone doesn't feel they're part of society, or see themselves as a subculture, it's generally easier to justify committing crimes. Brutal punishment only teaches people to not get caught, and as far as deterrent... It only raises the bar of how angry or desperate someone needs to become till they pop. It's like the healthcare system over there. People don't do it till they have no choice. Similarly your criminals are going to be more desperate on average.
Solving the problem, can only be achieved through social engagement, understanding. Even though that goes against our nature a lot of the time. We're oft vengeful creatures. But that simply doesn't solve anything.
It is this sort of disgusting corruption that made me leave the country.
3:38 this sadly sounds like most CZcams sections.
Love your videos
Great reactions Ryan. How about the incarcerated being paid better & most of what they earn sent home to their families, so they are not such a burden on the state.? My ex husband was a Prison officer (guard) here in the UK & he always felt that that would be the right thing to do. BTW congrats on the birth of your little one
The Netherlands is the complete opposite of this. They nearly ran out of prisoners, seven years ago!
The USoA government has laws against importing goods made by other countries' prisons, yet a large part of USoA government products they rely on are made by their own prison inmates - while also giving a pay-off to the prison owners and/ore administrators.
In the USoA it is common for prisons to be privately owned, it is also common for judges, and other authorities, to own a share of the prisons they are sending those they sentence to - so the more people they send to their prinons the more money they make from them!
Just another example of the inherent corruption of the country that has fooled so many into thinking their THE example of "freedom", when they often don't even make the top 20 of "free" listings.
I amfromUK and cannot believe these people are chained together, that they are fed poor food. You wouldn't believe the difference over here. They have their rights no matter what they have done, their food is the same as everyone else's is
The relatives should be asking why the government didn't do anything upfront
Ryan , Last time I watched your video reaction you made me laugh so much . This one on the American Prison system made me cry and I could feel the pain in your eyes . Thank you young man for being who you are . Love to you and yours from me and mine .🍀
The point is that we try to protect society by doing our best to make sure they never see the value of doing crime again, it protects the possibility of future victims rater than past ones...
But it doesn't work because so many get released and reoffend within a year. Even the ones that don't want to just get fucked over because even after being released they are still tried like a prisoner in terms of their rights and opportunities.
Added fact, the for-profit prisons have been caught, keeping their best working prisoners. It is not uncommon for a skilled prisoner to be denied early release and often has prisons invented accusations, just to gain the most money.
if you treat people worse than cattle, don't be surprised at the result! Greetings from Germany
This is one of the most educational and interesting videos I’ve seen for sometime
I truly believe that America is at the same stage as Victorian Britain in most policies but with a few modern conveniences. What mean by this is that healthcare is profit-led and can often lead to death or life destruction in its pursuit of profit over individuals. As this video shows in regards to prisons it’s all about profit and slave labour. The attitude and misdirection that politicians and certain influential figures use towards its second amendment. I could rant on but I hope someone eventually gets a backbone over the pond and actually gets America into a place of true democracy and moral standing, because it is so far away from it at this point in time
A lot of US military equipment is made by prisoners. Battle helmets, uniforms, body armor etc. Some being sold to foreign armed forces and despite the fact that under US law it's illegal to import goods made by foreign inmates.
20:08 depends on the way of thinking, because treating a criminal like a human being helps to avoid the same criminal to commit crimes again. And most importantly ruining another life won't get your mate back, under any circumstances
Hello from Norway, the land of the Vikings 😃 You should react to prisons in Norway 😇 We care alot about rehabilitation and reintegration 🙂 A few Americans have visited some of our prisons, and they were very positive 🥰 (sorry about my bad english/spelling). Best of wishes coming your way 😀
Please note, that the "slop" may be healthier that what you eat, the sheer amount of chemicals in your food, even chips ( or fries to you ) has an insane amount of chemicals in them, whereas most other countries contain only potato !
I might be wrong on this, but the crappy food you eat, fuels you hospital rates, which in turn increases your health insurance of which i am totally in shock about, healthcare is a right, not a privelege !!
( note, there was a comparison done between McDonals UK vs US portions and ingredients will prove it to you ! )
Some Americans still live like they did 2000 years ago. In the Old Testament.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. If you hurt me, I'll hurt you.
That's why more guns are sold in America than anywhere else.
We were in Indiana for 3 weeks and saw a lot of signs with ...... supporters. America first, but only if you're white and wealthy.
I'd rather let someone die than introduce universal health insurance. What is often said is "Why should I pay for it when other people are sick". And when your own child dies because you can't afford treatment, then it was God's will.
Those who are not rich and are studying have to pay a loan for the next 20 years, which they would not need in most European countries, since universities are either free or very cheap.
The freest country? maybe, but only if you can afford it.
Otherwise you go to work for minimum wage and will be still proud that they made you employee of the month.
Sometimes i think that americans be kept artificially stupid by their politicians, the tv stations and the churches.
Slaves were also proud when their owner praised them or their owner got more power.
They thought they were superior to other slaves, but in the end they only were just slaves too.
i once listened to an interview of someone who was in solitary confinement. the guy took YEARS to recover from his months long stay. note that his offence was fairly mionor (i think he got a bit rowdy somwhere), he wasnt a adult and was thrown in solitary confinement for no other reason than saying no one too many times....
his was still recovering by the time of the intervie.....
the fact that the guy who did the interview also did one with (i think a soldier) who flat out listed solitary confinment as a way they used to break terrorists is not helping at all.
My question to all americans is, imagine a former prisoner moved in to your neighbourhood, would you prefer that, during his time in prison, he had been treated as an animal, abused and humiliated on a daily basis, or would you prefer that he had been treated humanely and been given the opportunity to get himself an education and a basis upon which to become a productive member of society? Which alternative would make you feel safer?
By the way people from all over the globe can see whats going on in USAs prisons. That has an effect on opinions on the so called land of the free. You can judge a country's development by how they are treating their prisoners.
8th amendment:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Ask are you after justice or revenge?
If you wanna learn more about this topic I highly suggest watching - ''Larry Lawton, Toughest Prisons - My Time in the Toughest Prisons | 114 |''. Love the reactions, I watch more then few of your channels it is rly educational and fun content.
My country has a prison, but also a place used to rehab, and people do get judged on how likely it is they commit another crime, and also if murderer has clearly no empathy the penalty will get much harsher since those people are higher risk to let go. But there is a cap of 20+ years max in prison
In my country, a prison guard who strikes a prisoner without valid reason (self-defense, riot) will be considered guilty of blow and injury, compared to the wounds, he can be condemned to prison...
Prisons should be state owned. They should cost to sustain. That would pressure the government to make reforms to have less prisoners.
It’s definitely not the drugs. In countries like Germany even weed is highly illegal everywhere. We still don’teven nearly have that many prisoners per 100.000. and our prisons look more like a motel room. Plus the rate of people getting in and out and back into prison is way lower here, because we’re not punishing prisoners, we’re re-socializing them lol
he meant that in the US drug related crimes are punished severely. instead gere in germany, even though drugs are illegal as well, you seldom get a long prison sentence, if you get any at all. depends a little were you live. in berlin sentencing un generel is much less high than in bavaria. same laws, different outcome in a federal state.
@@lilg2300 bot True at all lol
He was talking about the specific campaign "War on drugs" the US have been running for decades now, I watched a documentary on it a couple of years ago and it is sickening what a twisted system they have set up, and I guarantee it is contributing to the ridiculously high incarcaration rates they have!
I didn't think I could loathe the U.S. prison system more than I already do...but there ya go. Truly horrifying and disgusting. And heartbreakingly sad.😩😢
Very informative!
as a spaniard i do think that rehabilitation is the best thing we can aim for: you cannot change what that guy, the one of finland, did. but as the family of the victim, i would think that i don't want that person doing the same thing to other family again, and if rehabilitation is the best way of securing that outcome, then let's do it! justice system is not for vengeace, and giving human right to people just when they are "well behaved" is not... giving anyone human rights at all. that's why i think in us you don't have human rights at citizens: at any point, someone can take those from you.
3:20 Yes... You can't believe how many times I've heard stuff like that when I try to debate crime related stuff with americans online.
I literally get to hear this argument every freaking time when I happen to compare some European country's crime rate with the US.
I newly read an article about a prison in Pennsylvania trying out the norwegian model on 79 inmates, they called it little scandinvia.
Great reaction video. I’m interested to know if any other country requires people to pay money in order to be released on bail or is this purely within the US? In the UK people are released on bail with conditions but there is no monetary requirement for bail.
To the point of "what would the family think", that is an absurd and absolutely irrelevant point in the eyes of a Scandinavian. If that were to be a relevant point, there's a slippery slope down to making the victim's families be the judge at the accused's trial. And even then, after the terror attacks in Norway in 2011, several of the parents of the murdered children have publicly stated that they themselves would never sink so low as to demand cruel punishment for the terrorist. What is important to us, is that the society as a whole reaps the benefits of the punishment; that after the prison sentence the inmate has a good chance of being a good and productive neighbour, and that if he were to move into my neighbourhood, I would not be afraid of him.
And this is also exacerbated by a legal system in which public prosecutors, defenders and police officials are voted for in state elections! It’s utter madness.
I can’t think of anywhere else in the English speaking world, or any developments country where a vote can determine who in the government has the power to have such a tenuous sway over fate of its citizens.
Judges are appointed by the “state” or the Federal government but those working for them in representing alleged felons are employed based on merit in a public or civil service which is independent, bi-partisan and not relying on a vote.
If you can have power dimly by garnering votes you are inherently corruptible by corporations and private entities.
Therein is the problem.
I heard that punishment works really well when it's the first time you do the crime. But for every time that you didn't get punished before eventually getting there, the less a punishment will effect your behaviour.
I think we (Earth) should find more ways to explain the micro + macro benefits of doing what society wants the offender to do. Seldom would you mess up both your own life and others' if you had an opportunity to do something similar but helped both you and others out instead.
Like with kids. It's way more common now to talk to them instead of hitting them.
in my country of the Netherlands, we've doing roughly the same things as these scandinavian countries do and we had to try and rent out our prisons and eventually close them completely. Which is ofcourse the polar opposite of what private prison company would want
When I was seven years old. I was upset by a decision my teacher made and my father said “ if you don’t like your situation, change it” OK he may not be father of the year, but the principal stands.As a member of society in the US, with a child, do you want him/her to grow up in the world as it is, or do you want your child to have a better world? Every person counts. I can’t tell you how to make things better, but if you don’t try, nothing will change. You may not have committed a criminal act and have no intention of ever doing so. I assume your child will be a law abiding citizen too, but given the US system, you could end up being swallowed into the horror show of the US Justice system as an innocent person and still end up being proven innocent and yet your life can be destroyed! Food for thought?
It's hard to change a system that makes the government and individuals so much money.
Love your reaction videos! I would love to watch you to react to Passport two video on having a baby in Germany. Would love your reaction on it
And yes, I'm commenting this on every video since they posted it
thanks again, great video.
HI RYAN. 🇺🇲
DEBRA HERE FROM RAINY SOUTH WALES 🏴
My philosophy is "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime".
We in the UK have a drugs problem too but most of our serious crimes are carried out with knives, as it is not at all easy to get a gun in the UK, but knives, as you know every house has knives, they would be impossible to ban.
Thank you Sir!
The fact is, here in Finland, those who get into the "Paradise on earth" prison, have been in a normal prison for a long time. it is like a 1% (or close to that) of the prisoners, who are close to sitting out their sentence AND have been deemed to be a non (or small) existent threat, to get into this modern looking rehabilition oriented prison. In the nordic countries, our system is designed from the ground up to give people a good life, free (paid with taxes) healthcare, free education (also with taxes), social welfare is paid with taxes for those who dont have a job or are in school. I left a lot of things out of this still.
11:36 there it was, i was gonna comment that "yeah, it's just a matter of time before the most minor of shit you do lands you a multi year prison sentence, all in the name of capitalist profits", but yeah, the moment you make privately owned prisons, and put a price tag on prisoners, that's when the ball start rolling towards the inevitable outcome of life long sentences just based on a whim
In Denmark, murderers is genuinely taking a highschool degree in prison
This minimum wage is ridiculous in all provinces because rent is over $1000 a month for an apartment in every province. People on Disability Pensions in each Province can't even pay for food because most of there cheques goes to the landlord. It's actually increasing the suicide rate here in Canada. This year alone from January to October 2022 1 million people have committed suicide because they can't pay there bills and buy food. This is starting to get the attention of our Governments and are now planning to do something about this before it gets worse in the next 2 months and in 2023.
In relation to what would the family think about a lifers living conditions which I’m sure is near the end of their sentence though under the colonial system(American, Australia etc.) what would the family of their next victims think?