Jon's entire stance in this conversation makes me understand why he struggles to be (or even want to be) in a relationship. The amount of baggage/trauma he carries and does not want to acknowledge/work through is astounding.
I feel otherwise. I think he is being (a little bit overly) practical/realistic. Maybe he does have baggage/trauma but this kind of things, generally isnt easy to work on.
No la. I think he haven't found someone he wanna go through this kind of stuff with so he just looks at it more from a robotic perspective. When he finds that someone, probably he'll change his perspective. Lol.
I like how John is being so rationale and understanding In the adoption and if the child is with any problems matter. Likewise JP doesn’t even understand the process of the whole birthing takes place and commented so much negativity on it till to a point Jon has to raise his voice “you yeah what!”’ JP, you wouldn’t know what the child will exactly be or have until he or she is being born.
When the child has a good understanding of life, would be ideal. We shared the information with my brother when he was around 12 and provided the reason for the adoption and we were open if he wanted to know his birth mother. He decided not to as we regarded our parents as his true parents as we raised him with lots of love.
Jon’s point about not loving the child instantly after giving birth really hits home for me. I also wondered that for a while, and felt very bad when I didn’t love n feel so much for the child, but of course it kicked in awhile later n I love her so much now
I always knew that I was adopted. I was born in Indonesia and adopted by my singaporean Chinese single mum. I never felt like I was missing something in life when I looked at my friends with 2 parents HOWEVER I felt the need to hide the fact that I was adopted when I was younger because Singapore isn’t really big or accepting about adoption back then. It was something “shameful” for me but looking back it’s really stupid of me to think! But now that I’m older I’m really thankful that i always knew that I’m adopted and it saves me the heartache to know the truth when I’m older and I m very grateful to be in Singapore to have a better life :) my adoptive mum is also very open about it if I do want to search for my biological parent in the future so I find that really cool of her. I’m all for telling the truth from the beginning
Story time: I’m an Indonesian Eurasian who was brought up by a Chinese family. Growing up, I looked significantly different compared to my family members and from the get go, I’ve always felt like I was adopted. My family consisted of light skins and I was just so much ‘darker’. In Primary to Secondary school, I would always get made fun of and my peers/‘friends’ would also say ‘Why you so black’ and it has always haunted me. I would get made fun of being adopted and they would also question me ‘Why your parents like that and why you like that’ and I never knew how to answer it back then. I would go home and cry because of all the verbal abuse and mockery. I hated school and even the park (where I played soccer with neighbours). They would make fun of me and called me ‘adopted kid’ just for fun. How I found out was when my late uncle stood up for the bullies at the park and I ran to my grandma and asked (in Hainanese). She wouldn’t give me and answer straight and my parents, more so my dad, would also say ‘You’re god given’ but as a kid, I didn’t believe in a bigger thing than myself. I was always fed fairy tales and I disliked being not told the truth (from my family). I had to sit my parents down (then P6 to Sec 2) and they could finally tell me the truth. I balled my eyes out because of all the built up emotions leading to questioning them. Now 22, I’ve realised that telling the truth at a young age to an adoptee, is the better way to come around. I sometimes still always wonder about the ‘what ifs’ but try to be more ‘in the present’. The verbal abuse growing up still stuck with me since young and I’ve been learning to ‘let go’ but there will always be a part of me that thinks about ‘Am I me through geography’. I’m fortunate to be adopted. I love and care for my parents through thick, thick, sickness and health. I’m forever grateful and always will be considered ‘lucky’ as there was a family that took me in because they wanted to love a child. However, I think being honest, explaining to the kid why and how and answering as honestly as possible, would give a better understanding as to why the kid was adopted in the first place. From one adopted kid to another, our parents keep it to themselves for a reason. They are also afraid. Please be patient with them as they are also trying to find a way to break it to you. I’ve always wanted to ‘find’ my birth parents but have accepted the fact that I’ll never be able to. Being able to accept and appreciate all that they have done and are still doing or trying to do so, makes it easier to accept. Happy Valentine’s Day. Give yourself a try.
Great topic! why do we encourage adoption of pets but not children? Personally it's of the same vein - help children already born and need help & love. In fact I would go to say adopting is showing more love than giving birth bc it's a deliberate choice
Encouragement of adoption of animals becos of 2 reasons. 1. There are abandonment of animals. 2. Those who encourage are shelters, animal lovers and animals welfare group. And keep wanting to forcing down ppl throat. Actually if one wants to adopt a child in SG it is also encouraged but it is just not done like those animals welfare group.
I have a pair of angry and abusive parents. Growing up I thought that I'm must not be their real born child because why would they treat their own flesh and blood so horribly. I wish I was adopted and gonna look for my real parents when I grew up. Sad news, I was not adopted and they are my real parents. Adopted or not, just be grateful you have loving parents...
First! On a serious note, I really like how y'guys touched on the topic of IVF and how expensive and tough it is on the lady. To add on, adoption is somewhat taboo here and not as common, probably ties back to our asian core values. I am a new subscriber but I have been enjoying your content so far, keep up with what you have done right so well and I look forward to more videos from y'guys!
your parents adopted you because they chose to love you. Sometimes parents are not courageous to discuss the topic. Its not easy as it makes them vulnerable too. Maybe you can ask them in a calm manner and when the time is right.
What started out as a light-hearted conversation filled with little jokes evolved into a very deep and heartfelt discussion that I think everyone must have. Perhaps this is the video to share when people say "Listen what podcast? So long and boring!". (Ironically my new favourite TDK episode does not feature the creator himself.)
I think once you're an influencer, anything controversial and personal will always be leveraged to garner views and attention. At least for the majority of them.
My parents never once hidden the fact that I was. Ever since I learned how to talk...they explained it to me. And honestly...I think that is the best than finding out when you're older.
I’m born Malay, from Indonesia, adopted to Chinese parents in Singapore. I was 4 years old when I realised the difference, why am I darker than both my mum and dad, so I asked. My dad joked about it at first, but then told me about it. At 4, I probably didn’t understand. At 7, I asked my Teachers in school the meaning of adoption and I understand. Relating to myself, it was good to know it since young so growing up wasn’t that tough and I don’t get bullied. Even if people joke about it, I would just laugh about it because I already know the facts. I have another friend who is born Malay as well, but adopted by Caucasian family, she too know it at a young age and she grew up a happy child too.
This is a topic where I’m really interested as to what Dan has to say about it. I believe his presence could change the dynamic and perhaps bring in another view of the topic
I felt that even suddenly my parents tell me I’m adopted it doesn’t change anything to me. I love them and they love me is all what matters. What’s the point having parents that doesn’t love you?
I think it’s unfair for Jon to just say why sustain a life that has caused a burden. Why is it others who determine whether one should live or not. Yes you might not be capable to sustain the life that’s why there is so many system in place to help. Orphanages, Fostering, systems in place for people who are not capable. I agree we never know what someone goes through because I personally have a brother who has special needs. It’s not easy and it’s stressful and hard but pls do not justify actions like murder. The father ended the life of children who may have the potential to live how he wanted and excelled in life. I may not have the best relationship with my brother but I am grateful for his existence to educate myself. We are bringing in discussion to bring equality and many different topics to not discriminate. Then in this case why are we discriminating them? Yes I understand Jon is like realistic but I think phrasing of words is important. Let’s not justify actions like that. As much as we want to feel that the parenting of the twins are difficult and tough. Murdering and ending their lives because HE THINKS they are a burden and not allow them to live, what right was he given? Have we come so far in life to determine one’s livelihood and who should live and not?
Go read up on anti-natalism. It’s unnecessary to procreate because every life is a burden unto the planet. Also it’s totally unnecessary to subject another human being to the unpredictability of existence, forcing him to deal with all of life’s stress, illness & ultimately death. Worse still if the child is born with special needs- not only does the parent suffer, the child also suffers. There’s a fate worse than death for such individuals. One shouldn’t gamble with human lives that’s why choosing to remain childfree is the ethical choice. Who are u to say the special needs kid will enjoy life? You say it to assuage your own guilt. An unborn life will not know suffering.
how do you prepare for something that is basically the unknown? you can't really, and i think that's something more people are becoming increasingly aware of, and possibly contributing to low birth rates. when people procreate, they're essentially gambling on multiple lives; the lives they produce are an unknown itself, which are further conflated with the unpredictability of their own lives. maybe its currently overly impractical and unrealistic to expect that would-be parents are equipped in all aspects (financially, mentally, emotionally etc) to develop their child in whatever form they manifest as. but should we not be holding individuals who are creating lives up to the highest possible standard? if we truly believe lives are precious, which parents better damn well do, then should they not be held accountable to ensure that their children turn out to be the best that they can be or otherwise, ditch the thought of having kids?
i listened to the podcast first. then watched the video. there are so much nuances in your conversations that the podcast causes confusion or makes little sense. it only comes full circle after i watched the full vid.
There is really nothing wrong with wanting to tell her story and and that she monetised it. She is an influencer and people live for "drama" and honestly, even if she monetised it, I believe she came from a place of wanting to help people who were/are in the same situation that she is in. And the conversation between her parents, it honestly can help so many adopted children feel/understand where their parents are coming from, and it is a good part where I feel it may not be exactly the same as conversations they have in private, it really would do some good in Singapore and the "stigma/rules" in our culture.
As an adoptive parent, what was mentioned by the hosts about not being able to choose the country of origin of the adopted child is factually untrue. Once you have the relevant papers from MSF, you are free to engage an agency or to find a child on your own regardless of the country of origin. I talked to 2 agencies, one dealing with babies from vietnam and one dealing with babies from malaysia before deciding.
Agree with Jon on alot of points (although not as extreme). Everyone should think why they want or don't want children - have that inner debate, have it with your partner, have it with your friends and family. Don't get a kid just because "it is how it is".
Sometimes there are snakes in the family. They will tell the child that he/she/it/them/they etc, are adopted and do not belong in the family. This happens without the parents knowledge and after awhile, family drama occurs, with the adopted kid being the most affected. Speaking from experience,it is better to tell your kid before others do.
With all the risk which could happen if they were too early tell naomi tht already explain naomi family is not wrong telling this kind of thing is very complicated
found it out myself, hahaha i love rummaging through my house when i was young reading all the documents hahahahaha came across the adoption paper when i was 13 i think. no feel tho hahahahaha
She's basing it on the blood type thing but blood type of a child is not definite A+B=C kind of thing. I think need to look at grandparents' blood type too.
Jon's entire stance in this conversation makes me understand why he struggles to be (or even want to be) in a relationship. The amount of baggage/trauma he carries and does not want to acknowledge/work through is astounding.
I feel otherwise. I think he is being (a little bit overly) practical/realistic.
Maybe he does have baggage/trauma but this kind of things, generally isnt easy to work on.
@@junxian3014 which Jon lol
No la. I think he haven't found someone he wanna go through this kind of stuff with so he just looks at it more from a robotic perspective. When he finds that someone, probably he'll change his perspective. Lol.
I think e scorpio aka joyce scarred him
@@meesanunab4811huh why is Joyce suddenly brought into this convo? Were they tgt when they were in tsl?
I like how John is being so rationale and understanding In the adoption and if the child is with any problems matter. Likewise JP doesn’t even understand the process of the whole birthing takes place and commented so much negativity on it till to a point Jon has to raise his voice “you yeah what!”’ JP, you wouldn’t know what the child will exactly be or have until he or she is being born.
When the child has a good understanding of life, would be ideal. We shared the information with my brother when he was around 12 and provided the reason for the adoption and we were open if he wanted to know his birth mother. He decided not to as we regarded our parents as his true parents as we raised him with lots of love.
JP stances and JC stances really varied. Which is good because it creates conversations. Not everyone thinks the same or wants the same mah.
Jon’s point about not loving the child instantly after giving birth really hits home for me. I also wondered that for a while, and felt very bad when I didn’t love n feel so much for the child, but of course it kicked in awhile later n I love her so much now
I always knew that I was adopted. I was born in Indonesia and adopted by my singaporean Chinese single mum. I never felt like I was missing something in life when I looked at my friends with 2 parents HOWEVER I felt the need to hide the fact that I was adopted when I was younger because Singapore isn’t really big or accepting about adoption back then. It was something “shameful” for me but looking back it’s really stupid of me to think! But now that I’m older I’m really thankful that i always knew that I’m adopted and it saves me the heartache to know the truth when I’m older and I m very grateful to be in Singapore to have a better life :) my adoptive mum is also very open about it if I do want to search for my biological parent in the future so I find that really cool of her. I’m all for telling the truth from the beginning
Story time:
I’m an Indonesian Eurasian who was brought up by a Chinese family. Growing up, I looked significantly different compared to my family members and from the get go, I’ve always felt like I was adopted.
My family consisted of light skins and I was just so much ‘darker’. In Primary to Secondary school, I would always get made fun of and my peers/‘friends’ would also say ‘Why you so black’ and it has always haunted me. I would get made fun of being adopted and they would also question me ‘Why your parents like that and why you like that’ and I never knew how to answer it back then. I would go home and cry because of all the verbal abuse and mockery. I hated school and even the park (where I played soccer with neighbours). They would make fun of me and called me ‘adopted kid’ just for fun.
How I found out was when my late uncle stood up for the bullies at the park and I ran to my grandma and asked (in Hainanese). She wouldn’t give me and answer straight and my parents, more so my dad, would also say ‘You’re god given’ but as a kid, I didn’t believe in a bigger thing than myself. I was always fed fairy tales and I disliked being not told the truth (from my family).
I had to sit my parents down (then P6 to Sec 2) and they could finally tell me the truth. I balled my eyes out because of all the built up emotions leading to questioning them.
Now 22, I’ve realised that telling the truth at a young age to an adoptee, is the better way to come around. I sometimes still always wonder about the ‘what ifs’ but try to be more ‘in the present’.
The verbal abuse growing up still stuck with me since young and I’ve been learning to ‘let go’ but there will always be a part of me that thinks about
‘Am I me through geography’.
I’m fortunate to be adopted. I love and care for my parents through thick, thick, sickness and health. I’m forever grateful and always will be considered ‘lucky’ as there was a family that took me in because they wanted to love a child.
However, I think being honest, explaining to the kid why and how and answering as honestly as possible, would give a better understanding as to why the kid was adopted in the first place.
From one adopted kid to another, our parents keep it to themselves for a reason. They are also afraid. Please be patient with them as they are also trying to find a way to break it to you.
I’ve always wanted to ‘find’ my birth parents but have accepted the fact that I’ll never be able to. Being able to accept and appreciate all that they have done and are still doing or trying to do so, makes it easier to accept.
Happy Valentine’s Day. Give yourself a try.
Great topic! why do we encourage adoption of pets but not children? Personally it's of the same vein - help children already born and need help & love. In fact I would go to say adopting is showing more love than giving birth bc it's a deliberate choice
Encouragement of adoption of animals becos of 2 reasons.
1. There are abandonment of animals.
2. Those who encourage are shelters, animal lovers and animals welfare group. And keep wanting to forcing down ppl throat.
Actually if one wants to adopt a child in SG it is also encouraged but it is just not done like those animals welfare group.
I have a pair of angry and abusive parents. Growing up I thought that I'm must not be their real born child because why would they treat their own flesh and blood so horribly. I wish I was adopted and gonna look for my real parents when I grew up. Sad news, I was not adopted and they are my real parents. Adopted or not, just be grateful you have loving parents...
Ooof
First!
On a serious note, I really like how y'guys touched on the topic of IVF and how expensive and tough it is on the lady.
To add on, adoption is somewhat taboo here and not as common, probably ties back to our asian core values.
I am a new subscriber but I have been enjoying your content so far, keep up with what you have done right so well and I look forward to more videos from y'guys!
I knew it all along that i was actually adopted, but i never confronted my parents because i don't have the guts to face the truth.
your parents adopted you because they chose to love you. Sometimes parents are not courageous to discuss the topic. Its not easy as it makes them vulnerable too. Maybe you can ask them in a calm manner and when the time is right.
What started out as a light-hearted conversation filled with little jokes evolved into a very deep and heartfelt discussion that I think everyone must have. Perhaps this is the video to share when people say "Listen what podcast? So long and boring!".
(Ironically my new favourite TDK episode does not feature the creator himself.)
23:59 “Yeah, you yeah what?” To be honest, this is the first time I’ve heard Jon raised his voice at JP!
And Jon’s reply v true
Position of hopefulness vs Position of hindsight
I think once you're an influencer, anything controversial and personal will always be leveraged to garner views and attention. At least for the majority of them.
My parents never once hidden the fact that I was. Ever since I learned how to talk...they explained it to me. And honestly...I think that is the best than finding out when you're older.
Agreed
Kudos to JP for pointing out blatant misandry
I’m born Malay, from Indonesia, adopted to Chinese parents in Singapore. I was 4 years old when I realised the difference, why am I darker than both my mum and dad, so I asked. My dad joked about it at first, but then told me about it. At 4, I probably didn’t understand. At 7, I asked my Teachers in school the meaning of adoption and I understand. Relating to myself, it was good to know it since young so growing up wasn’t that tough and I don’t get bullied. Even if people joke about it, I would just laugh about it because I already know the facts. I have another friend who is born Malay as well, but adopted by Caucasian family, she too know it at a young age and she grew up a happy child too.
This is a topic where I’m really interested as to what Dan has to say about it. I believe his presence could change the dynamic and perhaps bring in another view of the topic
Great chat guys, JP going in with the hard questions! Keep it guys love this
I honestly like Jonathan Chua cos can tell he is really a good person!
I felt that even suddenly my parents tell me I’m adopted it doesn’t change anything to me. I love them and they love me is all what matters. What’s the point having parents that doesn’t love you?
i always agree with JP. The child has d right to know. The mother must be responsible and respect the child
I think it’s unfair for Jon to just say why sustain a life that has caused a burden. Why is it others who determine whether one should live or not. Yes you might not be capable to sustain the life that’s why there is so many system in place to help. Orphanages, Fostering, systems in place for people who are not capable. I agree we never know what someone goes through because I personally have a brother who has special needs. It’s not easy and it’s stressful and hard but pls do not justify actions like murder. The father ended the life of children who may have the potential to live how he wanted and excelled in life. I may not have the best relationship with my brother but I am grateful for his existence to educate myself. We are bringing in discussion to bring equality and many different topics to not discriminate. Then in this case why are we discriminating them? Yes I understand Jon is like realistic but I think phrasing of words is important. Let’s not justify actions like that. As much as we want to feel that the parenting of the twins are difficult and tough. Murdering and ending their lives because HE THINKS they are a burden and not allow them to live, what right was he given? Have we come so far in life to determine one’s livelihood and who should live and not?
Go read up on anti-natalism. It’s unnecessary to procreate because every life is a burden unto the planet. Also it’s totally unnecessary to subject another human being to the unpredictability of existence, forcing him to deal with all of life’s stress, illness & ultimately death. Worse still if the child is born with special needs- not only does the parent suffer, the child also suffers. There’s a fate worse than death for such individuals. One shouldn’t gamble with human lives that’s why choosing to remain childfree is the ethical choice. Who are u to say the special needs kid will enjoy life? You say it to assuage your own guilt. An unborn life will not know suffering.
JP: I dont want peace, I want problems!
Cmon guys do an episode on morality ie. utilitarianism and consequentialism!
how do you prepare for something that is basically the unknown? you can't really, and i think that's something more people are becoming increasingly aware of, and possibly contributing to low birth rates. when people procreate, they're essentially gambling on multiple lives; the lives they produce are an unknown itself, which are further conflated with the unpredictability of their own lives. maybe its currently overly impractical and unrealistic to expect that would-be parents are equipped in all aspects (financially, mentally, emotionally etc) to develop their child in whatever form they manifest as. but should we not be holding individuals who are creating lives up to the highest possible standard? if we truly believe lives are precious, which parents better damn well do, then should they not be held accountable to ensure that their children turn out to be the best that they can be or otherwise, ditch the thought of having kids?
What JP brought up is what I dread if I would be a single dad with a daughter, like Suresh and Sushila in Lion Moms.
20yo me agreeing with JP, but after being a parent, I resonate with everything Jon say lol
i had the same doubt as Denise before that my mum was A+ ,my dad is B+ and I’m O+ , that’s bcoz they are AO and BO respectively and gave birth to a O+
I am 32yo now and I feel I need to confront my parents now more than ever cause when young that time they keep saying I was picked up from rubbish bin
Yes JP is correct. don’t have kids
Fostering procedure in SG is not easy. MSF makes it real tough for successful cases. Good and bad.
i listened to the podcast first. then watched the video. there are so much nuances in your conversations that the podcast causes confusion or makes little sense. it only comes full circle after i watched the full vid.
There is really nothing wrong with wanting to tell her story and and that she monetised it. She is an influencer and people live for "drama" and honestly, even if she monetised it, I believe she came from a place of wanting to help people who were/are in the same situation that she is in. And the conversation between her parents, it honestly can help so many adopted children feel/understand where their parents are coming from, and it is a good part where I feel it may not be exactly the same as conversations they have in private, it really would do some good in Singapore and the "stigma/rules" in our culture.
This was such a good episode. Looking forward to make deep conversations like this.
As an adoptive parent, what was mentioned by the hosts about not being able to choose the country of origin of the adopted child is factually untrue. Once you have the relevant papers from MSF, you are free to engage an agency or to find a child on your own regardless of the country of origin. I talked to 2 agencies, one dealing with babies from vietnam and one dealing with babies from malaysia before deciding.
Agree with Jon on alot of points (although not as extreme). Everyone should think why they want or don't want children - have that inner debate, have it with your partner, have it with your friends and family. Don't get a kid just because "it is how it is".
We can only respect their decisions, sometimes, its something we can’t understand with our current perspectives. 🙏🏻😢😢😥😥
Sometimes there are snakes in the family. They will tell the child that he/she/it/them/they etc, are adopted and do not belong in the family. This happens without the parents knowledge and after awhile, family drama occurs, with the adopted kid being the most affected. Speaking from experience,it is better to tell your kid before others do.
delusion =/= hope bro... if you wanna have a child you better be prepared for the worst case scenario...
JP is so infuriating
After watching more of their videos is really.making me enjoy hearing John's pov and the way he bring it out makes me want to really listen to him
i think the qns is more on is naomi’s need for content ok?
Good episode!
28:00 thanks John Parenting is under looked in Singapore
hey could yall share the reddit thread that was mentioned in the video please?
John kinda got on my nerves on part of this conversation
which one john chua w pat?
Talk about next topic : Child Trafficking.
Going for courses won't prepare you for parenting kids, much less a special needs one.
With all the risk which could happen if they were too early tell naomi tht already explain naomi family is not wrong telling this kind of thing is very complicated
found it out myself, hahaha i love rummaging through my house when i was young reading all the documents hahahahaha came across the adoption paper when i was 13 i think. no feel tho hahahahaha
JP has pointed out the lack of insight of sg policies by the governmental bodies
No.
There is still a slight chance you can be O even though its recessive.
I think if its allowed to choose which nationality they want to adopt confirm 90% of baby tht are adopted by singapore parent are from china
So Denise is adopted?
She's basing it on the blood type thing but blood type of a child is not definite A+B=C kind of thing. I think need to look at grandparents' blood type too.
The thing that Denise mentioned at the end of the vid is call parenting schemas. Recently had a convo with my friends who are parents about it.
Jon Paul! Me and you have the same mind set. I would like to be your friend !
another episode of hearing rubbish from john Paul. Dude speaks before he thinks.
We are all pick up from rubbish bin one no meh.
11:25 hehe caveman brain in guys
Oh hai
Roses are red,
violets are blue.
I love fried rice,
how about you?
P.S. Jon Paul's forthrightness is a gem, looking forward to more podcasts!
Heard he messed up in smart local, that's why he left
jp places his pride above the safety of kids
Dan and Nat go celebrate V Day ah today? hehehehe
who r they eh
She is just an attention seeker. Now imagine her kids growing up knowing their grandparents are not their real grandparents
First
At least do some homework before the video la. Barely know things about naomi and talking about her