Gran Turismo 7 vs Forza Motorsport - The Duel - Digital Foundry Graphics Breakdown
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- What happens when two of the most talented development studios in the world tackle the same subject matter - albeit with very different priorities? Polyphony Digital and Turn 10 routinely deliver some of the technologically impressive racing games on consoles - and with the release of the PC/Xbox Series Forza Motorsport, we can finally deliver our long awaited sequel to our GT Sport/FM7 head-to-head. This is Gran Turismo 7 vs Forza Motorsport - our most ambitious comparison video yet.
Play NAME THAT GAME: take.quiz-maker.com/QBJGN1XSA
Subscribe for more Digital Foundry: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
Join the DF Patreon to support the team more directly and to get access to everything we do via pristine quality downloads: bit.ly/3jEGjvx
Want some DF-branded tee-shirts, mugs, hoodies and more? Check out our store: store.digitalfoundry.net
For commercial enquiries, please contact business@digitalfoundry.net
00:00 - Introduction
02:47 - What You Can Expect From This Comparison
04:38 - Circuit de Spa - First Drive
08:11 - Interior Comparison While Driving
10:21 - Toyota GR Supra Comparison
13:24 - Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Comparison
15:21 - Circuit de Spa Side by Side
20:16 - Google Earth vs Forza vs GT7 on Spa
24:21 - Spa at Night
27:49 - In-Game Timelapse on Spa
29:24 - Watkins Glen - First Drive
32:00 - Mazda MX-5 Interior Comparison: The Revenge
33:09 - BMW E46 M3 Gameplay Comparison
35:24 - BMW M3 Close-ups
37:29 - Real Hot Lap Around The Glen vs Forza + GT7
40:10 - Car Damage Model Comparison
41:57 - Why Does the AI Always Crash Into You?!
42:50 - Driving in the Dirt - Particle Comparison
44:01 - Materials Testing - Chrome Cars
46:21 - Materials Testing - Matte Cars
47:05 - Laguna Seca - First Drive
48:25 - Google Earth vs Forza vs GT7 on Laguna Seca
52:04 - Rain Comparison on Nürburgring GP Track
56:31 - Frame-rate Options
58:44 - NAME THAT GAME
1:00:34 - User Interface and Campaign Discussion
1:05:27 - The Wrap-up - Hry
Most people probably don't understand the amount of work that goes into videos like these. Thank you for the quality work DF 🙏
Facts
Totally agree. Bless them for being so diplomatic. It's obvious that Polyphony have the edge but they're still very positive about Forza. IGN's comparison was obviously subjective and favoured Forza. What do you expect when it was hosted by one of the Xbox stans. I'm sure they're paid by MS or severely deluded. Ryan McCaffery should watch this, learn something about objectivity.
He posted on Twitter he has 90 hours in Forza and he never has really played the game. Now that is academic research.
Yeah but I expect PC vs PC and not PC vs console like we saw on that video
@@IHateEnglish10282 What do you mean? Forza runs much worse on PC in my experience than it does on console and GT7 is only available on console so what do you mean?
I'm blown away by how accurate the treelines are in GT. It's something most people will never notice until they see a side-by-side comparison like this but it shows how much care and attention went into recreating these tracks.
GT7 is a true love letter to racing. The menus, the soundtrack - its all creates an amazing space to learn about and engage in motorsports
Como querem compar um jogo de services com o jogo play station,
I just love being in the gran tursimo world, I saved my pocket money for the 1st game and a massive fan. It's all just perfect.
Excluding the grinding part, other than that its a great game imo
Only thing Forza is better is physics. The car feel more like a real car. The graphics sometimes are better also. I have both and love both btw
@@Lordicus21i would say crash physics but only in some instances. GT physics just aren't as consistent but I wouldnt say the over all visuals and physics are better. The driving feels more realistic imo
23:54 Forza spelt Welcome wrong
FC Bayern stern des südens
Embarrassing! It isn't written in cursive like the original sign either.
LMFAOOO
As an astronomer I am delighted by how realistic GT7s night sky represents the stars and contellations. It's not 100% but the main contellations are there and star maginitudes are represented very well indeed.
It warms my heart when games based on Earth have an accurate night sky for me to look at and enjoy.
I hope you don't drive with your head amongst the stars lol
Have you ever seen the UFO 🛸 beam up the cow in GT7 best Easter egg ever😂😂
The crazy thing is they did this already with GT6 on the PS3. I remember they used mount panorama for their demonstration
Also: remember the moon missions?
@@tgreg9542You’re lying wtf
@@NexGenTek
There are easter eggs in GT7 (not sure if they still exist, but they used to).
Another detail I hoped you noticed are the full colour LED screens around the track in GT7, if you go close and zoom in you'll see that the pixels are individually and realistically rendered, to the point that you can see the RGB channels the same way you would if you put a magnifying glass in front of a real screen.
This is fucking amazing lol. The attention to not just detail but legitimate tricks in visual representation of tech/surfaces is honestly mindboggling.
fuckin mind blowned, kaz and his team is insane
@@DearFreja it's so convincing that we might probably just be able to live in GT's world 😂
@@darknez09240yep. The GOATED WORLD of Gran Turismo basically.
🤩
This transcends far beyond a 'graphical breakdown', and is what it looks like when someone is in love with what they do, up to, and including complete mastery of it. Bravo John.
Very nice quality in fact.
@@purwantiallan5089 Yet somehow made it biased still. I've noticed that they do this, mostly because to please their fans on any sides.
This video is an incredible effort. GT7 has been one of the best games of the entire generation for me. The love put into this game...hardly seen on any other.
totally. been playing it since ps1 1995
Couldn't agree more. Turn10 attention to detail is seen at 23:55 .... "Weclcome" seriously hahahah...
While it was certainly an incredible effort (PD’s love for everything cars has always shown through in their work in a beautiful way), the actual “game” part of it was lacking imo.
If they had the career from previous GT’s and kept everything else the same then it would be amazing, but as it is, it’s nothing more than fetch quests but for cars. “Beat this race and we’ll give you a car, do that 3 times and I’ll give you another 3 races to beat” and so on… I remember GT3, 4, and 5; it was a genuine accomplishment to get to the GT World Championship and finally beat it, only to be thrust into endurance races that’ll eat your entire life.
GT7’s Championship was just another race for me and it was just underwhelming… I honestly didn’t realize what it was until after I won and the trophy appeared… and afterwards? Oh, do some more races and you’ll win a roulette ticket which will give you $10k or a car part you’ll never use
@@Kekszbelow 26:08 CRAPstation S U X , Xbox Rocks
26:10 CRAPstation S U X , Xbox Rocks 💪😎
Just a small note on crowd movement. While it's more engaging to see them waving and whatnot, at actual races people really aren't fanatically waving like at a football game.
Thank goodness someone has finally said it
@@IngrownMink4 ah i see you are a man of culture
No, they just stand/sit still watching the race through the camera lens of their phone 😢
Yes! Thought I was going crazy seeing people prefer the crazy crowd constantly waving in Forza. They look much better than before, but it's so less realistic than GT
I don't frantically wave my arms at football games either.
19:42 Tyres spilling out would actually be a red flag in real life since lost tires are a safety hazard so they're usually belted together, or stuck on a tubular inner frame. Strange case of where trying to be "realistic" actually makes the game not realistic.
Yeah especially in modern times, Forza could be realistic in the old days where there was loose tire bundles but that's many years ago now.
Or it's just artistic licence to give a bit of dynamism to the environment.
But tyre walls deform and move IRL to take the impact of the collision, yet in GT they look like concrete.
absolute realism would also mean a crash means your car is totalled, you might get killed or worse... expelled!
@@herrboogieHermione 😂
So much love for racing was poured into this incredible racing sim that is GT7. Poliphony really did an awesome job here.
It's too bad Sony gutted that game for all it's worth with the Store
@shadowmover63 I don't know, I haven't touched the store at all. I was just grinding for credits and have no complaints on that part.
What store? 😕
@SuPeRz4ever I understood the Store as microtransactions. Don't know why people hate on it when it's completely optional and just for buying credits which you can earn by playing.
@@shadowmover63 Most likely not Sony's decision, but rather Polyphonys desire to meet quotas.
Just got GT7 based on this video - for £30 too! I thought that Forza looked brilliant on Xbox series x but am blown away by GT7 gfx. Great job Mr Linneman.
It's not just the better GT7 graphics but car and track accuracy. They are simple closer to the real tracks that make it believable that you are racing on something that exists in real life.
I haven't played GT in years, last time I played was only a couple hours on PS2 with GT4, I skipped the PS3 and even though I own a PS4, I never played GT Sport, and after giving GT7 one year to cool my head because of the MTX fiasco at launch, I find that I very much enjoy the game, the driving model, soundtrack, menu design, it's all just so... singularly GT, I have enjoyed very much putting in an hour a day in it for the past few months.
There's still stuff I hate about the game (AI could be better, roulettes make me mad, the freaking expensive legendary cars, etc, etc) but the experience of actually sitting down and playing it is great.
Kazunori Yamauchi and his team are really talented. And to think GT7 was a cross gen game. GT8 will be glorious.
Yeah, especially considering the PS5 Pro rumours for next year.
You can wait for gt8 lol quite some time probably on ps6
@@gordjy I haven't picked up a ps5 yet but when I do I'm getting gt5 for sure. The benefit is I'll have access to all the releases dlc
@@jesusgarciacruz9059 to be honest I recon a ps5 pro is not needed atm. We haven't even seen the full potential of ps5.
@@Homesbykiawe haven’t, imo I think series x and Xbox just haven’t been fully used correctly yet
gt7 + psvr2 is so damn immersive. i constantly am in awe of the vehicles as i pass by
gt7 is such a mid game, its 120 dollars plus ps plus for online and vr for 1000 dollars (aud)
I have a ps5 but hate gt7.
Yeh you missed this whole bit out @DF John.... GT7 in VR is a massively different experience and since trying can't drive without. (I'm a much better driver in VR than on screen!)
It's a completely transformative experience.
don't know it did not look anything super spectacular to me on psvr2 but it's probably because i mostly play in vr on pc.
Just wait for sales. I got GT7 for $20 USD recently. VR2 will probably go on sale next year sometime too @@rileyvosper411
Johns the top guy. Always knows what he's talking about. GT7 developers attention to detail is unmatched in the industry. I believe there is a video somewhere where they talk about how they invested a lot of money into high tech cameras to capture paint.
GRAN TURISMO 7 should've won Best Racing Game Award of 2023 and not Forza Motorsport 8.
@@purwantiallan5089They won 2022 but sure
They all know what they’re talking about tbf.
How is it possible that no game ever topped or even matched the awesome rain effects of Drive Club on PS4?
GT7 in VR is a beast of its own too
Not to mention the vr party trick of helmet reflections in mirrors and shiny interior surfaces, among many other features
Just ordered vr and a wheel… excited to give it a go
Sure is
Lol
Man it’s so good!
Huge respect for this video, can't imagine the hours put in. Also mega props for platforming a few of the issues with the newest Forza Motorsport, to have it come from such a respected publication when big reviewers just glossed over them is refreshing and very helpful overall. I hope we see a GT Sport to GT7 style glow up to the game in the future.
Extra shoutout for the DRIVECLUB music, rip sweet prince
Hi how r ya
Mad respect for Theo and John for covering different aspects of those racing games. Theo always has good criticism for gameplay and the feel of the game from the consumer perspective, like how the servers are running, any cool playlist this week? Are the cops present, are they tough? How's the progression? Is it grindy? IS IT FUN? As for the other side of things, DF has a surgical eye for all things tech-related. Why isn't it running great? How does it run with RT? Is the HDR implementation good enough? Frame times, frame drops, what causes it, and so on. Very fortunate to have such high-level quality information available. Thx guys!
I agree that most people don't fully understand but I think people who follow DF will generally have a good understanding, otherwise (generally speaking) you wouldn't bother watching the videos.
You can't imagine the hours put in?
You can't imagine a 40hr workweek? Lol. This was on John's plate for the last week or so.
55:40 "Though for this particular effect my heart is still with Driveclub" - exactly what I was thinking! An outstanding comparison you've done here, just incredible. (as always) - DF is the David Attenborough nature documentary of gaming.
driveclubs rain blew me away back in 2014, nothing looked as good as it, and still games are barely coming close
I will be forever in awe of the magic displayed by the wizards at Polyphony Digital. The whole driving experince they deliver is a unique crossover between art and design and technolgy. Masterful. Also Huge fan of the musc selection aswell. Love the Chris Hülsbeck track and also DMC5!
I also a massive fan of music selections in Gran Turismo. Is it possible to listen anime soundtracks in GT7 via custom songs from PS4 or PS5 Internal Storage?
@@purwantiallan5089 Not sure if it's possible from the storage; but I noticed GT automatically silences the music if you use spotify in the background on the ps5!
I have a pretty bad ass PC and a sim rig.... But I really Wana try out GT7 so I'll probably buy a ps5 to... I'll need one any ways to play GTA 6 when that comes out anyways.......
@@aprilionorange6414and if you turn down the music a bit it blends so well
Both games are stunning but after this video I can only have much more appreciation for Polyphony's eye for detail. The likeness to the real world counterparts are insane.
Oh yeah. Polyphony's attention to detail is second to none. Can hardly wait to see how much attention detail, they will put into GT8.
@@avalonr.s.1438 it will be more. remember, gt7 is a ps4 game in mind. cross gen game never show true potential of the newer console.
But gran turdismo 7 looks like some anime with it's over saturated colors. Forza Motorsport looks more like real life.
@@bungwohlioI disagree
GT7 on first launch and in settings has exposure and saturation controls@@bungwohlio easy to make it look way less saturated if that's what you want.
The attention to detail regarding the treelines in GT7 isn't just impressive, but utterly bizarre! It's insane how they choose to model all these different trees in pursuit of accuracy.
They also got the type of trees right which seems like a basic detail to get right
It's a racing simulator, you can't call yourself a simulator if you don't simulate the track as accurately as possible, forza just wanted to try and make their game seem more ' busy ' at the expense of realism even it means the tracks wouldn't look accurate.
@@adrianhosein7698 I don’t know if that is entirely fair though. The act of driving, with the physics and actual layout of the drivable track playing a more substantial role, the visuals surrounding it aren’t as important I’d argue.
Whether GT7 or Forza is the winner in that regard though I wouldn’t be able to tell, since I’ve only ever played GT7.
@Ozziw162 Agreed. The "simulator" refers to car physics/handling and the track. The rest like outside the track areas and weather are just flourishes AND if it wasnt for this video, no one would even now or notice if the track side detail is accurate or not.
😂😂
Nice typo at 23:52 Forza! Weclcome??
We can compare visuals of both games until the sun explodes, but when it comes to connecting with the cars, the heart of the game. GT really nails it.
Brand central could have you spending days looking through car brands and models and learning the history, watching the visuals as you choose a colour. It's really something to appreciate and adds an extreme amount of value to GT
This! Been playing GT7 for a month since I copped a ps5 and omg. I did not have the same connection with forza Motorsport 7 and the new one😢
John I don't normally comment on videos, but this was beautiful. The quality and presentation was top tier. It has that Sunday cosy vibe to it and I need more videos like this. I wish it was longer. Well done!
It's stunning to me how realistic these real-time rendered cars look in modern racing games. Some of the shots here really could be mistaken for photographs at first glance.
No they dont they look way too vibrant and everything has way too much reflection. I get its a new technology with ray traced reflections and they want to show them off but nothing in life is as reflective as in racing games like everything has a light layer of cooking oil all over it.
@@HaulinbassracingI mean, gaming - even 'realistic' gaming - is an exaggeration of reality. It's just like any other medium in that sense.
I'd say *sometimes* these kinds of games do feel photoreal.
Gran Turismo has largely mastered replays and replay angles. Some of the onboard footage from the GT World Series event at the Nurburgring also integrated some camera-tracking to focus on the car ahead, and it frankly looked better than real life lmfao. And let’s not get started on some of the VR footage
@@Haulinbassracing🤓
You mean gran Turismo. Not forza 3
Great video, John! Really enjoyed. One thing you missed is the way GT7 simulates a drying up track: it's just outstanding and I often play races with mixed conditions just so that I can witness it.
Yeah, but the drying up path is predetermined, unfortunately. A perfect example of that is shown on one of Super GT's videos when he raced on a rainy High Speed Ring - the final corner's inside was drying off despite everybody driving on the outside of that corner.
Yes, that's a big omission. I was thinking the same.
Thanks for taking a deep dive into this comparison! I've always admired how much attention to detail Gran Turismo always had, and the vibe was always around the love and care of cars and motorsports history
23:46 the sign in Forza says "weclcome to" instead of "welcome to"
LMFAO how did they not catch that in development
Lmao 😂 this ☝🏾
oh lmao
23:49 Forza did an oopsie. Notice how it says "Weclcome". 😂 It's also the wrong font.
While speaking about Nürburgring at 52:02, they actually used the track "Awakening" from Enthusia: Professional Racing.
That alone makes this video extraordinary. Awesome content, John and DF editors.
I got 7/8 images correct on the Name That Game quiz! However, I never would've gotten them right without first watching an hour of John breaking down both games' rendering techniques in such exquisite detail as I've yet to play either game. Great video as always John!
The shot at 1:34 perfectly illustrates what I love so much about GT7. The quality of materials is just completely unparalleled. Multi layer car paint is just done so well, and the way light bounces off the reflectors is almost flawless. Forza has some things going for it but the attention to detail in GT7 is just insane.
That's because Turn 10 are still recycling models from as far back as 2005. Polyphony stripped back their car list and started to rebuild with laser scanned models. Turn 10 refuse to do this, they may have 700+ cars but the vast majority are inaccurate and low quality.
@@themarauder6108 sorry but materials quality has almost nothing to do with the modelling of the cars. Some cars in Forza are modelled really well, but yeah others are pretty awful. None of that affects things like the paint and light reflection on surfaces.
@@darvo110 I never said anything about material quality, reflections and paint surfaces. The models themselves aren't to the same standard as GT because they haven't been updated in years.
@@themarauder6108But they were talking about materials..
So why are you replying to them if your statement has nothing to do with car paints and materials in the first place?@@themarauder6108
After hundreds of hours in GT7 I got used to the graphics, but man, this video really makes me appreciate again how breathtaking it looks. Gorgeous, gorgeous looking game.
My jaw dropped at the headlight details. Like, holy mfkng shiet.
I don't know, I only play this game in VR. VR looks good, but with downgrades. However, once you play it in VR, you can't go back. Having a stiff forward view in turns really hurts the driving experience.
As when you lose control in a car(sliding on ice, and such), it is necessary to look in the direction you wish to go. You can only do this in VR, and every corner is better when you can do this.
@@datruth4766 forza horizon 5 (haven't played motorsport this year) has an option that will let you turn your head and will even do it automatically when turning so that may be something you could use
@@laughingseal2282 It's a lot more noticeable on some older cars, namely late 80s and 90s road cars where lights with just bulbs behind colored plastic. GT7 captures the look of them astoundingly well
This. It's insane. I can't believe they did this much granular detail.
"From the ground up"
...lets not forget how many times Turn 10 kept mentioning this.
Let’s give a shout-out to Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast, as I believe it was the first game to attempt to render realistic real world locations at good fidelity. All these games owe a debt to that pioneering effort.
They definitely don't. That game came out after Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo 2. It only came out a few months before Gran Turismo 3 even.
@@Nauzhror1216 I played Gran Turismo 2. It didn't render real world locations at good fidelity, IMO. Some tracks were based on real locations, but were cut down/modified, too.
Even GT 3, which launched months after it was not inspired by it, it was nearly complete when Metropolis Street Racer released.
@@Nauzhror1216 GT3 is less advanced than Metropolis Street Racer when it comes to realistic rendering of real world locations at good fidelity. Some courses were not an attempt to create a real world location. Others were inspired by, but not meant to be accurate recreations of, real world locations. As opposed to MSR whose courses were based on thousands of photos and hundreds of hours of video of real cities.
@@Nauzhror1216yep. It came out on 8th December 2000. Still amazing 23 years after release somehow.
In GT7 you can feel the developers' love for cars
True, There was a time when we could say the same for forza, Its soo sad to see.
But not for gamers which is odd 🤔
And their love for people to spend real money to even be able to earn most of them unless you're a no lifer grinding hours per day. Gt has fallen just as much as Fm has when it comes to game quality the past ~5 years.
Both series copy each others half ass attempts of making a racing game and see how low they can go before sales are affected negatively.
Yes, the inaccurate details in Forza is infuriating. Wrong speedometer backlight, wrong taillights litting up, etc. like the MX5 LED taillights at 31:06
The game opening cinematic says it all. Made with passion.
These kinds of videos should be called the DF Masterpiece Series, because that's what they are. Top-tier content.
'DF Self-Congratulatory Series'
John lineman is the best
I like how they commented an hour long video minutes after its been up but without even watching it it's a masterpiece apparently
@@Baguenaudeur Because John always posts awesome stuff, his content is some of the best in the videogame world.
@@BaguenaudeurJust finished watching it and now about to watch It again. And it is a masterpiece. Were there ever any doubts?
Amazing video ! Thanks for the level of quality of this comparison ! ❤ I’m playing both of these games and my heart goes for GT7 finally. The love of cars is so present in many respects on these game...
Johns videos about racing games are always so good. The music and production are good enough on their own to be quality entertainment, but the actual critical content is great too. Thank God for John.
Fantastic video. One point I would make on how GT7 depicts trackside detail and their attention to accuracy is that it's not just about being "real", many of these things, like treelines, towers, even small bumps, are used by drivers as reference points for breaking, position on the track, etc. First time I drove at the Nürburgring I was amazed at how accurate GT was (Sport at the time, this was before 7 even). I felt like I knew the track, my very fast lap I was doing decent times already.
Know exactly what you mean. Got to tick driving Nürburgring off my bucket list last year. Like you say, there wasn’t one surprise for me driving the track for the first time. Every corner as I’d come to expect from playing GT, every crest, every bump. That real-life sensation though, how good was it!?
@@scottdaniels8904Amazing, yet scary as I was racing with my daily driver at the time, a MX5 NC. Still I spent the entire weekend driving there, it was a surreal experience overtaking a G series 911 only to be overtaken a few moments later by a freaking Huracan. Also I saw more GT3s in those 2 days then in my entire life 😂
@@Metalmurphy I wish I can drive in Nürburgring too
@@scottdaniels8904 Moneybags over here...
6:50 , 26:10 CRAPstation S U X , Xbox Rocks
Gran Turismo is not just a game, it's a hommage to the love of cars. Every car designer will name it first when you ask him to name a car game.
Its also a hommage to the love of microtransactions.
@@ownzuallTalking like Forza hasn't released a billion paid DLCs for Horizon while GT7 gets free monthly updates
@@ownzuallMicrotransactions have become SO greedy they should be called *macrotransactions.*
@@ownzuall
These aren't required in GT7 nor in GT6 where they were first introduced if we ignore some paid DLC for GT5.
@@ownzuall Uhhh, are you really saying that like Forza doesn't bombard with DLC cars only accessible through DLC all the time? Like a shit ton....
The love, work and dedication behind this video is simply breathtaking. Congratulations for your work John, and the whole DF team.
I have both a series X and a PS5. I personally prefer the visuals of GT7, also it has VR which with a full rig, wind, and motion (which it has due to UDP telementry) is amazing. Furthermore, the handling, physics and controls feel much better in GT7.
Also the Sophy AI. PD are just on another level.
Man, there’s something about the car paint in GT7. It looks convincingly real
How??? Not every car in the real world has that glossy paint job like its just been buffed up & polished. So how's that realistic?? Unbelievable.
@@andyjefferson1308cry
@@andyjefferson1308stop crying😂
@@andyjefferson1308Really, calm down with the cope, my god lmao
It's just shiny.....
😂😂😂
Fantastic video! One missed detail for comparison - how tracks dry up after rain. GT7 has excellent system for that.
Wow this was very in depth! Thanks so much for all your great work! It was cool to see some of the differences between these two great games. Also this topic , Forza vs GT, has been a popular and much discussed topic online in the recent months.
Thanks for the video!
23:35 - typo on Forza. "Weclcome" instead of "Welcome"... crazy
Gran Turismo 7 in VR is incredible and needs to be seen to be believed.
iv seen it and honestly... not that impressed coming from pc vr... its still a console in the end.
@@Eskoxofair point but PC vr is generaly much more exspensive compared to ps VR2
I have it and it's amazing. Don't listen to any PC master race bots acting like PC is better. It's not. Yes, the graphics can be a little better, but that doesn't matter when the games are shittier. I've tried plenty of games that PC master race try telling me are better and they are just not.
@@errormachine5056 Graphics are way better it's a fact not an opinion... and as far as sim racing games its better on pc many more options in games and gear you can use not to mention vr support in most of them... thats not to say ps5 is bad it's just for different people who just want to play a game and not mess with 100 settings.
@@thatmemeguy2520 that is debatable when comparing the cost of games over long term use... it's just for different kind of people console is more for people who do not want to mess with setting plug and play on tv... i have both but mostly use pc due to better vr support in more racing games.
The way GT7 simulate driving in wets is very close to perfection. License test S-10 really showcase that where you have drive with dry tyres on a soaked wet track with limited dry lines. Slightly off the line and you will get what real life drivers had to deal with in those conditions.
Agreed
It was a beech to get gold on lol
Happy I managed under an hour
Each time you went off track may cost you 2.1 seconds in S-10.
Amazing work for this video, massively appreciated to see videogame's details highlighted in this way. Personally though, GT7 for me is just hands down the better looking game, Polyphony are masters of realistically modelling cars.
GT7 has come out almost 2 years before FM and is a cross gen game while FM is current gen only game/ pc. ( hardware advantage in my opinion)
Amazing job done from Polyphony digital 👌🏻
GT is a PS only game though while FM is at least available on PC and Xbox
Man the lighting on GT7 is second to none. PD are wizards
Wizards that will shut down their servers to make the game unplayable like GT Sport one day
@@jollama like GT7 is not online-only, yeah...
@@jollamaacting like Turn 10 didn't do the same with FM7 a year before GT Sport shut down😂😂😂
@@jollama Watch the new Forza Motorsport get delisted in a couple years like the last one 😂
Forza Motorsport's lighting looks extremely good too, and I can't wait to see how it looks on PC once it gets RTGI, which should be early next year.
This video is wonderful, and it has truly given me an entirely new appreciation for the level of detail Polyphony put into GT7. It's actually astounding their attention to detail and how much they clearly stress realism. Forza looks fine, it's a pretty game, but GT7 just looks unbelievable.
It's really sound ridiclous, but i wish DF someday can compare GT Sport and NFS 2015. The reason i pick NFS 2015 is because how incredible the graphics is, even till this day, some games can't do what NFS 2015 do. The main competitor to GT for "photorealistic" graphics area.
In vr heaven
Why cars take long be added and to add three a month pretty cool to at no Extra cost
Facts
@@prapanji9976Nfs2015, while night only, is still the best racing games graphics wise, absolutely blew my mind when it came out, and still does when I play it
What a great comparsion...I love that dedication whent in this video and the fairness for both products. Thank you John, again!
That footage at 45:10 is so good. Almost feels like a real world photoshoot
GT7 is playing Christmas music now... attending to detail in Gran Turismo is extreme.
"attention to detail in Gran Turismo is extreme" this is why I love Japanese developers. With everything they seem to be like that.
Oh yeah, I loved that in GT Sport too. These games have the best menu music I've ever heard.
They've actually been doing this since all the way back in Gran Turismo 5! You can look it up on CZcams for all the special holiday-themed menu scenes and BGMs lol
I know John put a lot of hard work into this, so I’m gonna find an hour in my day to watch every minute. much appreciated John. Bespoke Kudos to you sir.
WHO IS JOHN???
ARE YOU JOHN? THANK GOODNESS WE FOUND HIM@@SoyAntonioGaming
@@SoyAntonioGaming John Linneman is the person speaking in the video.
@@pillington1338 His name is John Linneman.
His name is John Linneman.
His name is John Linneman.
Gotta love how you used "Three of a Kind" (AC04 "Aquila" remix) from Ace Combat 7 in the intro, though.
GT7's car rendering is a whole generation ahead
As a car and motorcycle enthusiast and a casual trackday rider. There is one important visual detail GT7 absolutely nails, rubber marbles that build up during the race outside the racing line and dry or drier lines where the car in front of leaves on the track as its tires displace the water.
It's crazy how well GT7 holds up, those paint textures in close ups are just insane
And Remember an older cross gen game vs current gen game
@ArielCleirigh PD are working on GT8 as we speak. Cannot wait!
@@ArielCleirighyea that point really shouldn’t be forgotten. Gt7 just destroying forza these days.
"Holds up" lol like the game was made 10 years ago lol.
After GT7 was released, polyphony have continually upgraded visual elements and will continue to do so for a long time.
@@ArielCleirighI thought GT7 released last year for only PlayStation.
Great immaculate video as always DF ! Props for all of your hard work and very high-quality indepth proper information from an unbiased standpoint.
Nothing short of gods, you guys really and truly are...
Around 24:00 : regarding trees at Spa when looking from the corner 11/12 straight back towards the start/pits area in the far distance... this trick, of adding a fake tree line, has occurred for endless racing games featuring this track due to demand of the long draw distance required for accuracy (along with active elements, other cars on the track, that would be drawn way out there).
I'm glad you're bringing up differences between the games and real-world environment updates. I'm not familiar with how Forza has handled this in the past, but GT7 did actually update the environment for the Fuji track earlier this year. A hotel was built just outside the last corner of Fuji within the past couple years, and GT7 added this in a 2023 update. It's kind of funny that they added it because the hotel is almost universally despised for "ruining" the view of Mt. Fuji, but nevertheless it is true to life. I would expect GT7 to slowly add these types of updates to the game.
All i can say is. GT7 in VR is fuckin Amazing 😩
@@fj06carnone That is such a system-seller to me. I don't have a PSVR2 yet. Even if you don't play racing titles that often/seriously, there is something magical about racing on the tokyo highway at night. I only experienced that on PSVR and GT sport.
Still haven't pulled the trigger because I'm still debating whether it's going to be this or a Quest 3 or some other random challenger in a year or so. (wouldn't mind a surprise valve anouncement).
But I wonder what PCVR racing titles there are, that can deliver these kinds of experiences.
You’re gonna make me buy VR 😩😩
VR is amazing bro do it!
Shame the graphics sucks tho
@@Jeff.55649 wow, what a valuable member of the gaming community you are.
My dude, just enjoy games instead of mindlessly hating in order to validate your own choices.
Wow, tremendous work here to put all these details side by side. Congrats and thanks!
Great review, very well thought out and presented, thanks for ptting it together! One thing you didnt touch on was audio though. Care to update with any comparisons?
I worked on _Need For Speed_ (PS1) and it is simply stunning how far these simcades have evolved.
Lighting and fun is subjective so it is great to compare and contrast these two titans and what they prioritize.
Could you get your team back together and make NFS games like those again? I miss NFS games like 1, 2, Hot Pursuit and Porsche Unleashed!
What's a simcade?
Question for you: What was EA's reasoning for toning down the realism for PS1 and Saturn compared to the 3DO and DOS versions?
@@aetiusgdon't forget High Stakes, so good
@@mja101 Mix between a simulation and arcade, nor GT or FM are real simulations and of course also not arcade in any way. The Assetto Corsa games, iRacing etc. are proper simulations, NFS is arcade, I think NFS Shift 1 and 2 can be considered simcades too, not sure
I played so much GT7 since it came out, I can't even make sense of it, I don't know why, the game just feels good. Then when I was starting to go away from it, the VR mode came out and it lit my fire for it for some months again. It was great, really the best game that I played the most this generation thus far.
Can't wait for the next one!
Especially the much added challenge on Master License tests too.
The work put in this video is immeasurable! Wonderfully done!
35:45 - One minor correction. The BMW logo seems to have more visible geometry edges *on the left* screen (whichever one this game is). But as we angle the camera upward, the wheel arch has more geometry edges *on the right* screen. So the statement in the video is incorrect because it clearly cannot be applied to the same game here.
GT7 is a work of art. The tail and head lights are *chefs kiss*
GT7 is such a beautiful game. Also I loved the Driveclub music in the background!
Absolute banger of a video, marvelously done, John! And on top of that you included Chris Huelsbeck's Joshua Tree Windstorm which fits racing games so so so well!
What an awesome video!! ❤
FM guy here! Love the objective views available in this... must have taken ages to make
VR showroom in GT7 is the perfect way to admire the car models. You can put your face right up to the wheels and you will hardly ever see polys. Looking around the bumpers and lights, you will NEVER see polys.
Hi John, regarding the E46 M3; The car in Gran Turismo is rocking the standard '18 wheel package, whereas the one depicted in Forza us on the optional '19 wheel. In real life, the designs are similar but not identical, both are modelled very accurately here although I think the materials finish on the Gran Turismo car is a bit more accurate. :)
BMW M3 E46 in GT4 and 7 are equally pretty.
No other racing game looks as beautiful as GT7 and with some many details everywhere. Playing this game on an HD CRT, OLED TV and PSVR2 is out of this world.
GT7 being playable in vr gives it a big advantage over Forza because of the additional immersion it gives the player.
GT7 being a cross gen game...too good
Can’t wait for gt8 next year
next year is very optimistic but I also cannot wait@@AlexAparicio
Both games are cross generation/platform games. Both studios are some of the best artists and engineers in the entire industry.
I see nothing good about game being cross gen. How many times are we gonna get half assed games made so the old boxes can pull it?
@@SUPERFunStick FM is only on Series X/S though, not Xbox One
23:00 this whole google maps comparison is a total win for GT. Super impressive! Mind you I am not biased, as I play neither of these games (or any other racing game for that matter)
That transition to the spa at night section was 🔥 love seeing racing game content from DF
Regarding the Spa track comparison, the images on Google maps are also very outdated. The grandstand construction was finished when I visited the venue in April this year. But more importantly than that, they reworked a lot of the runoff areas and gravel traps, as well as adding alternative corner layouts for Motorcycles in places like turn 9 for the 2022 season.
You mentioned the tree line in the distance at 22:00 but I think the trees near the track are more important; that's what actual drivers use for timing their braking etc and they actually matched in GT7 instead of being seemingly random in Forza
Agreed. Accurate tree lines are very important for braking point markers.
Forza looks like they're trying to limit draw distance with thick foliage. Probably a technical limitation.
@@Ryukyus80 its also possible that they really liked their new tree models and just wanted to spray paint them all over. I admit its not just the trees; I prefer the look of GT in almost every shot of that video, especially paint quality and lighting.
With several years advantage GT still my fave... add VR and a steering wheel and headset makes it feel like a racing helmet cant be beat.
on my phone... hands down GT7 looks better in every way, we'll see about later on 60 inch C1
When you compared each track to the real track’s image on Google Earth, I would not have been able to pick out the real track if the pictures weren’t labeled. Both game teams did an amazing job.
John is my favorite member of Digital Foundry. I dunno but his presentation, emphasis and tone is always on point and very easy to grasp. Hats of for this incredible work. an hour of a CZcams video?? Hot deym.
I think that the biggest problem I have with the Forza visuals is the car paint. It gives the appearance like Forza has the subsurface scattering tuned up too high in the materials, giving the cars a softer, almost porous look in comparison. Still, it's minor, and not something I'd probably really pay attention to outside of a direct comparison like this!
Curious to see what the modding community can do with Forza on PC.
Car paint in Forza always looks like plastic. They never improve.
GT7 carpaint look better but FM definitely is closer this time around. GT7 suffer from last gen shadows though, the shadows underneath the car look horrible, makes the cars look floaty. Also the shadows from frontlights at night are really low res. Cars also have visible LOD pop in GT7.
Puddle thing is weird because FM7 had them but players complained about them so they added assist that would allow players to drive without worrying about puddles. Now they seem to have abandoned them completely.
@@IhorEleven No, it wasn't. Rain was only visual in FM6. There was no rain driving physics at all.
@@IhorEleven Wrong. That's FM7. In FM6 there was no difference between driving on dry vs wet track.
@@UltraCasualPenguinnot actully true, you lost a lot of the control when you hit those puddles in fm6 it was not dynamic but it did effect your handling when you hit those puddles
@@andreasmoller9798 Again you're talking about FM7.
@@UltraCasualPenguin no fm6 becouse it was the first forza to have this feature, and it got more advanced into fm7 but fm6 was in my opinion a better game, fm 23 is the worst of the 3,
Man, I'm glad that this channel and this type of content exists! Thank you Digital foundry for the years and constant feed of Nerdetainment!
This is the content that I appreciate. Thanks for the hardwork and effort.
I played both games and appreciate both games for what they do. I'm super impressed where we are in driving simulation in gaming.
gt7 textures and lighting are gorgeous
Gran Turismo has soul and is very clear that it was made by people with passion and love for cars
The Person who created Gran Turismo does in fact love cars , hell he even raced once....
Kazunori Yamauchi (山内 一典) ...
It has an incredible level of passion behind it, but it also knows how to adapt the feeling of driving and racing in to a game far better than Forza ever will. I say this as an Xbox owner. To be honest GT7 looks so nice, I'm tempted to get a PS5 just to play it.
Gran Tourismo is one of the most soulful game series ever made.
@@natecollins9331
More than once he has at least a couple podium finishes with Nissan at the 24hrs of nurbergring.
The thing is gran Turismo was created out of love made& hidden in another game before Sony ever wanted it. Meaning the Creator Kazunori made it without being paid or even knowing if Sony would green light it, that is love, he was not thinking this is gonna sell well and pay off, (that's Microsoft with a me 2 money grab) polyphony only knew they love cars and wanted to share that love with the world. The game bleeds passion and I feel it when I play better yet, or partake n the simulation experience, it's to real to be called a game
I'm so glad this video was made. I wasn't sure if I was missing something but I always thought GT7 looked so much better after playing both. I just can't get immersed in FM even though I do think it has the better career mode.
Brilliantly done John. The differences were stark when seen side by side.
Polyphony are literal masters of their craft.
Considering GT came out 1.5 years earlier and also had to be simultaneously developed for an old generation of console, the fact that it is on par or even (in my view) ahead of Forza in many areas is crazy. As for some of Forza's models and tracks being more outdated than GT, that's odd since it was built from the ground up😉
Why is it crazy? IF anything, this shows that development on older hardware does not have to limit or hinder development on better hardware. It is obvious to a PS5 owner, of which I own one so warriors ease back, this Gt 7 game was made to the strengths of the PS5 hardware despite being on PS4. I'm also assuming some of the myriad of updates we had gotten also tweaked some graphics here or there, someone already posted that Polyphony updated a track because a hotel had been added.
John explained that the track data may just be that old, nobody knows when it was scanned. As for car model differences, I chalk that up to Polyphone being the better artists, or at times the cars not being the same model year.
GT7 looks better across the board, imo.
even crazier when you realize PD was forced to do it crossgen because there was a gigantic PS5 shortage and wanted most people to play since launch, as if the game itself was a journey with its nearly monthly updates
Ya, if only Forza truly was built from the ground up to the standard some of the true new stuff is, then there wouldn't be anything to complain about visually. And I'd probably put it above GT7.
But how it turned out, I must say GT7s visuals are more appealing.
This Forza looks amazing some of the time, while GT7 looks amazing all of the time.
But visual nitpicks aside, Forza's real problem is that it's kinda bare bones and boring.
I know GT7 had and had it's problems too, but it's had years to get fixed up.
Meanwhile Forza is a pretty underwhelming game at the moment.
@Skrenja nahh it's too shiny and stale. Forza is more rugged but both are great in their own way
Great Wrap up at the end, I wasn't sure it can be done this gracefully
That is a tremendous amount of john. Thank you very much and Kudos to each team for releasing such clean games allowing this kind of videos