The Byrds' 12-String Jangle on "Turn Turn Turn" & "Mr. Tambourine Man" | What's That Sound? EP3
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2021
- If you've ever tried to emulate the distinct tones heard on songs like "Mr. Tambourine Man" or "Turn! Turn! Turn!," you know it can be difficult to pin down. So how exactly did they do it?
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The 12 string is so quintessentially 60's. It makes a song sound like a beautiful dream, although I don't think I've ever heard a guitar in my dreams.
Definitely one of the most iconic 12-string sounds of all time, one of the many reasons why I love Rickenbackers
I Still have 8 from the 60's. Always Loved the Slim Necks. No Other 12 string Electric can match a Rick. PERIOD. ✌
@@vincenzodemarco7983 You must have a lot of arms to use
An iconic sound but an underappreciated band. Long live the Byrds!
I hate that word "underappreciated:" band. THEY ARE OVERLY APPRECIATED! OR JUST APPRECIATED. they were inducted in RRHOF. roger mcguinn is immortalized in a song by mamas and papas. The Byrds are worshipped by the likes of tom petty , rem, and others. Roger/the Byrds invented janglejingle sounds others want to play.Peter Fonda idolized mcguinn..even bob dylan ADMIRED THE BYRDS/MCGUINN. They are written about in music nagazines, interviewed hundreds of times on TV and Radios. Fans from all iver the world including me bought their records. Blah blah
Where is the UNDERAPPRECIATION?
Just remember, the Ric has the courses of the strings flipped from most other 12 string electrics (octave strings are before their mates, doesn’t sound like much but it brightens up the tone of the guitar, almost akin to switching a song from all down picking to all up picking.)
What he said
This is the MOST important thing of all.
I didn't know that! How interesting.
And yet the original protype Rickenbacker "360" 12 string originally owned by Suzi Arden was strung in the conventional manner. Go figure.
That's some good knowledge. So I suppose I could string up my Gretsch 12-string that way and see what happens? It seems like it's worth a try. Also, the JangleBox compressor gets high ratings on the online forums for nailing that Byrds tone. But maybe using two more affordable compressors, like a DynaComp, SP, or Keeley would be the way to go.
... enjoy this video very much indeed 😌
Long Live the Music and Legacy of The Byrds 🎼🎶🎸🥁
The red 12 string used for the demo is an Agile AS-820. I have one and it is a truly fantastic instrument.
Thank you for identifying that guitar. Agile does a fantastic job making instruments for working musicians.
I used a Janglebox with a Rickenbacker 381/12 in past bands. It definitely nails that sound. The Janglebox, in its various forms, was intended to reproduce McGuinn's sound. I think I've read the McGuinn currently uses a Janglebox rather than the compressor built into his signature Rickenbacker.
I wonder how the JangleBox compares to using two of the more affordable and easy to find compressors like a DynaComp, SP, or Keeley.
@@theelectricsplash7384personally, I think the janglebox still sounds better. As a less exoensive(yet equally good fit this sound, janglebox makes the JB-nano which is a little less expensive.
Janglebox is not available in Italy 😡😡😡😡😡. I would love it ! But i have found a solution that goes pretty close to the Byrds sound : Jhs " 3 series " compressor, Byrd song treble booster pedal ( great) , and reverb . My best regards to all the Byrds fans !!
I’ve owned and would recommend a JangleBox to anyone interested, and similarly suggest avoiding the Byrd Box.
Just bought a used Janglebox off Reverb a week ago for $100 - crazy price for it - had a Creamy mid 63 PAF-sized Toaster pickup put in the bridge position of an old Yamaha Pacifica, run it all through a Vox AC15 mic'd with a Roswell MiniK47. I feel like I've got all the tools for jangle and chime, just need to dial it in.
@@danjacobson9476 great bargain. I traded mine after enjoyable use alongside an Effectrode, and realizing that alone was still my #1 compressor capable of covering all the settings I like, especially for bass. I’m still tempted to replace it for the option of series compression
I like my Byrd Box, I dont use it to get Byrd's tones though. I use it to simulate switching from a 'Normal' Channel to a 'Bright' channel with my amp emulators, which I think it works pretty well for.
@@howandlightning yeah for that purpose I can see the Byrd Box working well 👍
@@nocuh I've got a Dynacomp and a Behringer CS400 (Boss Close) on the board as well, the Janglebox is sort of a bonus on top of that for when I want to dial in the, well, jangle.
This series is fantastic --- please more more more!
Been waiting for this!!
Don’t forget to use a 12 string set of flat-wound strings for a more authentic sound. I think McGuinn used Pyramids
Eventually. I believe he originally recorded with rickenbacker strings, although they offered flats and rounds back then. Thomastik Infeld flats would be superior to pyramids today.
Okay you guys got me on this one. I was a teenager when those tunes hit the charts. I love those songs. Now I'm a Reverb fan.
Aside from the obvious of needing a Rickenbacker 12 string, a janglebox paired with any VOX tube amp, fender twin or deluxe reverb will work. Mcguinn actually used a Roland JC120 in the past so if you have a JC40 or JC22, just pair it with a janglebox, and you can even enhance the 12 string chorus and reverb on those.
Thank you so much for doing this. I love this sound, and think it's highly unappreciated in a guitar culture dominated by blues rock and shredding.
BRILLANT SOUND WELL PLAYED 👍
Loved it!
Just bought a used Janglebox off Reverb a week ago for $100 - crazy price for it - had a Creamery mid 63 PAF-sized Toaster pickup put in the bridge position of an old Yamaha Pacifica, run it all through a Vox AC15 mic'd with a Roswell MiniK47. I feel like I've got all the tools for jangle and chime, just need to dial it in.
Very cool video. Maybe next time you can show us how the sound was built i.e. first straight into the amp, then one compressor, then another. Thanks and keep up the great work!
I heard Chris Scruggs, the bass player with Marty Stuart and did the Byrd's Sweethearts of the Rodeo 50th anniversary with Roger, Marty and the rest of the Superlatives, which is one of the best bands I have heard in a long time. Marty has it going on. As always. He said that it went directly into the console with a load of compression as you said. For live gigs, he used the Epiphone amp to monitor his guitar on stage. On the 50th Anniversary if Sweethearts, Roger went direct into the PA where it was compressed. Roger used a Roland Cube to monitor his guitar on stage. I wonder what happened to that old Epiphone. It comes a point when you have more than a few bucks and you start collecting and carrying multiple guitars, though there are an amazing amount of pickers who use one guitar if not the entire night, or only when the tune called for a different sound. You can also use a Janglebox Compressor which is a $300 pedal.
Some friends of mine saw the Sweetheart show and still rave about. I saw Marty Stuart earlier this year and the entire band (I later learned that is Chris Scruggs on upright bass, electric bass, guitar, vocals -- amazingly talented artists) and it was an incredible show. Truly entertaining, impressive chops, variety, very professional and just all around a good time.
@@theelectricsplash7384 Even their wardrobe is very cool and very much helps the band entertain. There is nothing like a purple suit. The band dresses in purple and Marty does his own thing.
THIS is the best musical sound I've ever heard and I don't see it ever being de-throned.
I saw Rigger on his own.back in 2014 when he came to Rochester NY.and he told us how he and the band went to see A Hard Days Night.thats when he fell in love with the Rickinbocker.some guy named George Harason was playing it☮✝
This is a great 12 string example in general - but I really dig the pedal compressor fx A-B with the DAW VST plugins as a comparison of pedals vs computer plugin fx 2:45
I love how many others carried that torch. George Harrison, Mike Campbell, Mike Mills..
Thank You
Vox treble booster disassembled and mounted inside with a 9v. I was there, my Ric has the same mod done by the same guy from the 60s.
Hey ! I was wondering how they did the vocals of the hook in Back to School by Deftones, it seems they're using a phaser or something, but I never was able to reproduce that sound
Thank you for your videos !
If you look at the circuits for the various compressors using the CA3080A chip (Ross, Dyna-Comp, "Jangle Box, and the onboard Rick compressor) all of the designs are very similar with the differences being the values for attack, etc. Some of the newer multi-knob pedals would allow you to "dial-in" something very close to the sound of the Rick compressor. As for the guitar - I agree that restring the guitar like a Rick will make the over sound different but other than that there are too many variables. I have a Fender electric 12 (hockey head) with upgraded pickups that I think nails the basic sound. For amplification - Fender clean channel and reverb. The compressor evens out the sound and lets the octave strings match the standard ones.
Remember - McQuinn design a Martin acoustic with only one octave string (G) and said he got 90% of the sound he wanted.
Man them things right there and got a beautiful sound they got a sound that the other guitars just don't have😢
I wonder if McGuinn used the Epiphone amp very much. If he did, perhaps they used a DI box and took both the miced amp and the direct signal onto separate tracks or mixed them onto one track. If so, what are we hearing on the final mix? Once dual compression and EQ are added, it's hard to know what the origin of the sound may be. His guitar sometimes does sound very sonically flat and dry as if he's going direct, and other times more like a miced amp.
I appreciate your guitarist playing some of the signature parts of some Byrds' songs, but he's not playing them correctly unless he's playing the sub-overdub parts of which there were many. It's easy to confuse them and most players do when attempting to replicate McGuinn's original parts.
McGuinn developed an original technique and "code" for playing the Rick 12 because its neck at the nut up to fourth frets is too narrow for most adults to use the usual guitar-playing techniques.
BTW, stringing a Rick 12 with very light (.009 set) flat wound strings is a must to get that jangly sound. IMO, lighter strings always sound better on any guitar and play much better as well. l use Thomastik-Infeld or Pyramid strings which McGuinn uses.
For instance, a typical three-finger open "A" chord is next to impossible for an adult to play on a Rick 12 because it's so cramped at the first fret. Accordingly, McGuinn arpeggiated it, striking the 5th string open "A", skipping the 4th string, then striking the 3rd string octave "A", then striking the 2nd string "C#", then either hammering on or striking up one step on the 2nd string "D", and finally striking the open "E" string, letting them all ring. With compression, the notes cascade into each other creating that Byrds' jangle.
You can hear him play this version of his "A" chord quite clearly in the intro to "All I Really Want to Do" where he repeats it twice before going on to the next chords.
McGuinn did this for virtually all of the chords, and overall, that is the sound of the Byrds.
If you listen very carefully to Byrds recordings, you can hear that the main 12-string parts are mostly only partial chords played on the top three strings. Sometimes he dubbed a second or third 12-string part. This can be clearly heard on "Turn, Turn, Turn".
McGuinn's own video on the 12-string guitar is very confusing for a player who wants to learn how to play the original Byrds' 12 -string parts. This video demonstrates some but not all of the original parts. It shows how he plays these songs more recently as a solo performer wherein he now incorporates more of the lower strings, more full chords and has generally added parts that were originally overdubs.
The way to learn the true original 12-string parts is to watch "live" Byrds videos with a close eye on McGuinn's fingers (although even then, his live playing is not exactly what he did in the studio) as well as listening to his guitar on the original recordings which is the best way.
One thing that surprises many players is how economically McGuinn plays on those recordings. Most players of Byrds' songs just try to play as many notes as they can to fill it all in. The Byrds' sound is usually quite lush and there are often many guitars on each track. That can fool you to overplaying.
McGuinn was already a highly experienced professional session and backing musician by the time he formed the Byrds and knew not to overplay. Learning the technique and style of a talented genius like McGuinn will make you a better guitarist and musician and will help to tune your mind and ears for how to play in a group setting.
Cheers.
What an absolutely wonderful comment that describes everything perfectly. Probably the best post I have ever seen on the internet about this. The point about many guitars being used to produce the lush Byrd's sound is spot on. A decade or so later, a famous Australian band .. The Church ... took that technique to the next level using Rickenbacker 12 string guitars and Fender Stratocasters.
@@karmicselling4252 Layering simple parts is a well-known production technique often used to create a full but uncluttered sound. "The Wall of Sound" is one of these, which I think was Phil Spector's default technique because he had little experience, imagination or talent with regard to actual musical arrangement, so he had the musicians (most of whom would later be called "The Wrecking Crew") all play everything at the same time.
Thank you for your generous comment and have a happy holiday.
What is the Brand/Model of the red electric 12 string used in their example of how the Byrds' sound was achieved? I can see the number "820" on the guitar and the pickups look proprietary, but they never show the headstock, so I can't see what the guitar is. Anybody know who made it? (sounds good)
Agile AS-820
Cool video guys, the tone is really beautiful and similar to Roger Mcguinn, but why do you use 2 compressors? What's the deal with this in the final sound?
Dang! These ladies have great posture!
What guitar is that???
Why is that information not posted anywhere??
Such a great sound. I knew it was unique since the first time I heard it, but not that there was such a 'formula' to get it.
Let you know what I think in the comments? I think making this video without mentioning the Janglebox should be a crime.
My uncle was in this band.
I have a Harley Benton Rick copy and Boss ME-80 is it possible to get this sound or is it better to buy the Janglebox FX Pedal which is specially made for the Byrds sound? Can anyone help?
A JB-nano is all that is needed for THIS sound. Now mind you the Harley Benton isn’t the same to a Rick-12, but it will be in the ballpark. After that, a VOX style, fender tube style, or Roland amp with some reverb and slight bit of chorus if needed.
The reverse stringing and the rick itself are the final parts to the equation. They just have a really tight low end with the right amount of snap and I really don't know why
I do not play guitar, my instrument is the irish Bouzouki; to get close as much as possible to the sound of the Byrds, i have connected my electric bouzouki ( it has 2 GFS humbuckers) as it follows : compressor ,byrd song treble booster pedal ( this one makes a huge difference) , and a little bit of reverb .The compressor that i have used on the video that you can see on my channel, was a Keeley, but i've changed it with the Jhs " 3 series" , it satisfies me much more . On my Vox amp i don't even need to set the knobs at the maximum position , just at " noon" . If you don't mind , watch on my channel " Byrd song treble booster pedal " , english or italian languages . Hope it will be useful for your purposes . Greetings from Italy 👋🎸
Where was the tuner?
The amplifier name is pronounced EHN-sihn with a short “I”, not EHN-sine with a long “I”.
And prounounced "rickenbACKer", not 'rickenbOCKer".
@@scottstetzer Oh ! Gee Wiz !! This makes ALL the difference in the world !! NOW I understand !!!
That annoyed me too.
@@maxroyle6750 If Reverb is going to enlighten us about musical techniques used in the 1960’s, presented by people who weren’t born yet, the least they could do is to teach the presenters how to pronounce the terms they use so that they sound somewhat credible. It probably doesn’t matter to some people. The rest of us appreciate making an effort to learn the terminology before presenting it instead of cold-reading it from a cue card. This is not a criticism of the two young ladies. I’m thrilled that they are learning about musical history. The people at Reverb responsible for these presentations should catch these errors instead of assuming that no one will notice or care.
@@scottstetzer Mike Campbell knows and always pronounces it correctly.
A phaser set at its very least amount, so low you won't hear it on a 6 string, turns that 12 string jangle into a 3 dimensional wonder.
(:
@@vincenzodemarco7983
I don't fake it.
(:
@@ardiris2715 That is good to know.👌
That's it! I tried with one compressor before and it wasn't it. It never occurred to me to use two.
Actually Phil Spector's Wrecking Crew played the backing track on Mr Tambourine Man.
True, the American Federation of Musicians, Local 47 , contract is floating around on the internet.
I have a copy of it.
@@JohnSmith-cw2wd It was cheaper for the label to have experienced Studio Musicians record it then to have the Byrds come in and play.
Correct, with the exception that McGuinn performed with the Wrecking Crew. He was already an accomplished studio recording musician in his own right by that time.
Mcguinn still played his Rick-12 with the wrecking crew though.
@@Jeffcatbuckeye I doubt Mcguinn played on it. The wrecking crew were union musicians. The studios were union back then. Nashville had union studios also. A union run studio would never allow a non union musician in.
George Harrison thank you very much
I've owned several Rick 12-Strings and Recorded with them. One Fantastic Guitar. Especially the ones made in the mid-60's before they messed them up by Widening the dimensions of the neck. (they were returned to Original specs some years after screwing them up) Regarding the Recording, 'Roger McGuinn' aka 'Jim McGuinn' Didn't use compression to our knowledge. We need to ask him. Try to remember that the Recording Skills of the Engineers were Not as Up to Speed back then as they are Today. Ask Jim.
However, Compression is Widely Used to capture a specific type of sound when multiple tracks are Crowded into the mix.👍
I saw him interviewed a while back. He described the process as plugging his Ric directly in to the mixing board, then running it through two rack compressors in series. He was surprised by the sound, and liked it.
Nope, sorry Vince. McGuinn used TWO compressors in the studio back in the day, a pair of Teletronix LA2A's slaved together. He also had the guts from a VOX Treble Boost effect built into his guitar, so the compression with the treble boost is how he got "that sound." He used an amp (Epiphone Ensign 2x10) for the first album, Fender Showman for the next two, then started going D/I by 1967 and thereafter at the urging of new producer Gary Usher.
As for the recording skills of engineers back in the 60's not being up to today's standard -- where do you get that nonsense? The recording standards of yesteryear were FAR advanced over the questionable self-taught skills of today's bedroom producers. Back then a degree in electronic engineering was required before they'd even look at you. Today, too many so-called engineers and "producers" learned to record on Garageband, and can't even tell if their speakers are wired out of phase. The Byrds' usual engineer at Columbia, Roy Gerhard was particularly respected in the industry.
I think the only way to accurately reproduce that sound is to use the original equipment and be Roger McGuinn😆
Weren't The Beatles the first with an electric 12 string?
Yeah, looks like they don't know that McGuinn bought his 12 string after watching George Harrison playing his 12 strings Rickenbacker. 🤣🤣
@@rafaelpretto292 Spot On. CORRECT.
@@rafaelpretto292 Or so McGuinn says in interviews.
Unsurprisingly, the wrecking crew was some of the 1st ones to use electric 12s…modified acoustic guitars electrified. Glen Campbell and carol kay were 2 of those moments. They played on The Crystals-“then he kissed me” and Jackie Deshannon-“when you walk in the room”.
How did they do it..."The Wrecking Crew" did it. Crosby was POed that they were not allowed to play on their early albums.
My God that sounds so damn good. I could never afford a real Ric 12 string, but maybe someday, someone will make a damn good copy, with down to earth pricing.
Danelectro is about the closest you will get. It gets 95% of the way there and has its own voice. More trebly than chimney but it works well for the byrds sound, albeit not perfect.
This tutorial missed a crucial piece of gear: banjo picks on your middle and ring finger. Hybrid picking is a huge part of how Roger McGuinn got that rolling sound, especially on the Bells of Rhymney.
'Pump' being the operative word. That guitar part is being slammed by the compressors.
The guitar almost sounds like 'bells and chimes'' or something it's very different for sure
If you have a zoom ms 50g multi fx ...you can stack 2 dynacomps in a patch together and get pretty close...you should probably add a noise gate to that patch also since two comps stacked gets pretty noisy
Back in the day the story was Glen Campbell played 12-string on the first Byrds albums. Glen was part the famous L.A. Wrecking Crew of studio musicians and he did a number of album under the name of Mr. 12 String. Chris Hillman bass player of the Byrd back then said the band was frustration because record company insisted on using studio musician. Chris Roger McGlynn did get to play some on the first albums but most was studio musicians. It's said Leon Russell is the tambourine player on Mr. Tambourine Man. Back then the cost of recording was very high so record companies would use studio musicians so they could get things done fast.
I like the Byrds and saw them two or three times in concert over the years.
Roger played on the single tambourine man and its b side with session music. The album tambourine man was the byrds members on all the track but the two songs from the tambourine man single
"It is said"? By whom? Glen Campbell, while a busy LA session cat, never played on ANY Byrds recording.The first single, Mr. Tambourine Man was recorded using session men, including Hal Blaine (drums), Larry Knechtel (bass), Leon Russell (electric piano NOT tambourine), Bill Pitman (guitar), Jerry Cole (guitar) and Roger (then known as "Jim") McGuinn on 12-string. McGuinn, David Crosby and Gene Clark provided the vocals. Aside from that first single, the band played on the rest of the album, and every subsequent one.
I think that the bulk of the tone is attributed to the Rickenbacker 12 string and the amp with reverb
And you're never going to get a better sound from a 12 string
The ONLY way to get 'that' sound from a 12-string is to have 'reverse courses' of the octave strings. And the Rickenbacker is the instrument.
To get that true jangle sound you must hybrid pick the guitar like McGuinn did.The guy in this demo flat picked the guitar and that does not give the true jangle sound !! Too bad you all missed this.
The American sound .
Why 2 compressors in the chain? And don’t tell me 2 is better than 1 ;)
Uhh, because 2 is better than 1. The actual sound of these guitars is a percussive twang with not much sustain, Roger McGuinn wanted the notes to ring out longer, one compressor on its own didn't do enough so they used two.
@@PutItAway101 Correct.
Can someone explain why you would need 2 compressors? Why not just crank one? Does it make that much of a difference? I’m trying everything to avoid spending $200 on a fuckin janglebox!!
Language!
You’re not being helpful sherry!
As they say you gota pay to play!
In this day and age, it’s not really needed. If I want to be nitpicky, you could state that pitch can be altered by compressing it in series…more so you could enhance chorus by running it in parallel. The REAL reason they dually compressed the sound was because rickenbacker 12 strings do not have a lot of sustain. When you compress a sound, you increase the sustain. The compressed it 2x over to enhance the sustain of the rickenbacker 12 string in those analog days of the 60s.
In the modern day, this is a non issue…so yes…you don’t need dual compression for THIS sound as you can make minor reverb/sustain adjustments and it’s fine. Dual compression, for other purposes, can be quite useful though for a variety of other reasons though.
I hate keep 12 strings guitars in tune. try this instead rick 6 string model 330 or epiphone wildkat thru mxr dynacomp and digitech mosiac pedal .
You can’t. That’s what makes a 12 string a 12 string. Likewise the RIC 12 string has the octave strings below instead of above. That’s what produces the chime and ring vs just a chime.
You’re over complicating things and missing one part. There’s a Treble booster and compressor. The answer to your question is just get a Janglebox or Janglebox Nano. Roger has been using a Roland Jazz Chorus 120 for years too.
Thats for his later live tone from around the time of The Notorious Byrd Brothers and later.
For the studio sound of Mr. Tambourine Man, Turn! Turn! Turn!, Fifth Dimension, and Younger Than Yesterday, there’s absolutely no treble booster present, and the series compression is 100% the key.
Listen to the live version of Mr. Spaceman from Untitled/Unissued, and how sharp, gritty, and dynamic the guitar tone is from the treble booster, and then listen to how much cleaner and more compressed it is on the studio version from Fifth Dimension is due to the serial compression
The JBX from Janglebox get's awfully close. It combines a compressor with a treble booster, all wide-range adjustable.
It seems odd that you’re trying to nail the sound without the guitar that made it - a Rickenbacker 12. No other electric 12 is strung like a Rick.
You can string any 12-string Ric style if you want to - just takes a new nut and a little fiddling with the bridge to get the intonation just right. Truth - it doesn't make much difference, particularly if you use finger picks ('cause you pick in the up direction anyway on the GBE strings).
lol
Young Man, you play well....... Live life and breath deeply! GOD'S air is fresh and clean!
Is this the equivalent of auto-tune for a guitar? 🤨
What's that sound? Shit.
The stilted delivery of the talking heads reading the teleprompter is off-putting.
I think homeboys Trump filter is filtering his ability to hear that fucking thing being that far out of tune.