Fine art and photo paper names - what do they mean and what to use
Vložit
- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- How to match paper types & media settings in printers. Could you need to make profiles? Can you use Canon and Epson papers in each other's printers?
Keith looks at paper names and media settings, whether for finding profiles from paper makers, or getting your own profiles made.
He also looks at how he identifies new or even unknown papers, during his testing.
All the specifications and information from Keith's past paper reviews are at: www.northlight-images.co.uk/k... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Thanks so much for covering the topic Keith, very much appreciated. Mike from NZ
Thanks for the original question!
This is one advantage of moving the video recording up to my office ;-)
Hi Keith I have been watching your you tube presentations for quite some while now l have love them all for all the input and knowledge you have. I do suffer with some learning difficulties, so for give my grammar not up to much. I have just acquired a Epson ET - 8580 printer I was looking at myself and thought that might be what I would meet my needs such as lower ink running costs. And after seeing what you said about it, I have taken the plunge, I think it is just what I need. All I have to do now is get the know how to maximize it's potential. Your web site is great so great that is where I come a little unstuck I find the amount of information a little overwhelming still that's my problem. I will wade through it and get there eventually. A massive thanks.
Glad it's of help - yes, the site is a bit information heavy...
If you've any specific questions, you're welcome to email me at Northlight?
All so helpful Keith. Thank you
Thanks
Excellent Keith
Thanks!
Loots of usefull information, thank you
Thanks
Thanks for this; loads of good info. Right now trying to get the best b&w image i can from the epson et 8550 using the velvet fine art setting in order to use the pigment black ink as well.
Thanks!
Well, thank you Keith, that cleared up some of the mysteries surrounding paper which I've been trying to get my head around. I tend to stick with Canon branded paper or Red River, both of which seem to work reasonably well for my uncalibrated eyeball !
Thanks - once again based on some questions I'd been asked here!
Lots of great information here. I gained much comfort from hearing that you are an Innova user. Not a well known brand but I swear by their Innova double sided glossy. I made a profile using my ColorMunki and I can print direct without test strips. I file them in a "pinch book" and, hey presto an instant portfolio.
Yes, I've used them for many years
Me, I use Red River paper...
Brilliant 🙏👌👌👌👌
Thanks
Very helpful video 👍
Thanks
Thxs for making nice video on printing. Keep up the good work. :)
Thanks!
Red River Papers have been overall good to great for me. They are pretty close to my house and I plan on stopping in one day for a tour to put on CZcams if they will allow it.
Yes, I only know them indirectly.
Me, I use Red River paper...everytime they were at the photoplus expo...I would grab some samples...
Mr Cooper ,Please help with how to find profiles for iPad pro and iPhone. Love your very helpful videos. Just purchased a et8550, it is great. Thank you
Sorry about this, but...
There are no ipad/iphone profiles - such devices are simply the wrong place to start for any accuracy or quality in printing
Many thanks!
Moab is another respected source in the US. I've yet to conduct a test of the various samples I have from Moab, Red River, Canson, and Hahnemühle, but so far, I've been very pleased with the results from various Epson-branded paper I've used so far in my P900. I'll probably stick with Epson for most jobs (Ultra Premium Luster being my default). Their Legacy Baryta produced outstanding results but it seems to have been discontinued (I wish I knew who actually made it--the Epson person I spoke with didn't know), so I got samples from the other sources to find an alternative. Any ideas? Anyway, I always use the OEM ICC profile and have yet to go wrong doing so.
I have some new Innova papers for testing...
Keith thanks for this great video. I just got a canon Pro-300 printer and I am new to fine printing. The question I have is that for B&W printing is it recommended to create a custom ICC profile? thks
In general no - for the PRO-300 I found the Canon B&W print mode worked very well. I have an article specifically covering it here:
www.northlight-images.co.uk/black-and-white-printing-with-the-pro-300/
@@KeithCooper Thanks for your kindness and quick response. I will check your article. Cheers
Paper is a rabbit hole that I'm starting to dip my toe in. Perhaps suggestions for newbies on where to start so we can begin to get a feel for papers (for now I've assumed Epson branded paper for Epson printers - I just upgraded to a P900 but experimenting with Marrutt papers at the moment). I have a pack of 4x6 HP paper I can't get ink to cure on either. An event that put me off dissimilar branded paper; but I suspect it's the same stuff you have there. :^)
As I look into expanding my paper knowledge I'm met with terms like Baryta, Platinum, cotton etc.. Further confusing are terms like luster and semi-gloss (I know the difference if I'm selling house paint but not with paper!) so some help there would be appreciated (as has all your reviews; a bit shocked you don't have three times the number of subscribers!).
I have a video about what I think should be the first things to print with a new printer
czcams.com/video/R-Q2WdnNvWQ/video.html
For initial paper choices, see:
czcams.com/video/vhvI8-8Knfw/video.html
Yes, some papers jus don't work, no matter how many different settings you try ;-)
PS I only started the YT videos 2 years ago - the written articles go back nearly 20 ;-)
Hi Keith, I use a canon pro-300, usually with canon paper and hence with corresponding profiles. I recently got some “Fabriano Artistico” 300gsm paper, 14 x 19 cm, cold pressed, Extra white. Do you think I can use it on my pro-300? Which printer pre-defined profile would you choose?
Yes, it will work - but it needs the profile for that paper!
You could try the 'premium fine art rough' setting - should work for B&W print mode, but as to the profile for colour - who knows.
I have an ET-8550 and have been using mostly 300gsm glossy from the rear feeder, but can also print 350gsm Baryta this way as well. I purchased a 312gsm Fine Art paper but this won't feed through the rear feeder and has to go through the manual feed. Do you have any advice as to why this would be the case? Thank you for all the information. (I asked the supplier but they were not helpful)
It's all about the media type in use (what is selected in the driver) - some will only work with a specific slot
See the main [written] 8550 review for more about this.
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/
I don't have the printer here at the moment - but paper feeding is something I wanted to look at again if I get a chance.
Hi Keith, I only discovered you recently and I have become a great fan . I do have one question, please. I have two printers Epson R3000 and Epson Stylus 9900 ... The r3000 is dying and I am thinking of getting a canon Prograf 300 .. (I watched your review) .. I am using Epson's Presentation Paper - 27lb 4.9 mil thickness. This is the most suitable paper for my projects... can't use anything else... If I do get the Canon 300 .. what type of media should I select from the menu? Note that I print from Photoshop and I do have the profile for this specific paper... Thank you, I do appreciate the time and information you provide to all of us.... Best, Yvoni
Thanks - Glad it's of interest.
I'm afraid those [US?] figures for the paper mean nothing to me.
If you can send me a link to paper info, I may be able to work it out, but 27lb is not a measure used anywhere I know.
BTW. your old profile will be of no real use for the PRO-300. Profiles are for the combination of paper AND printer
I use Canson mostly, notice you did not include theirs in the paper reviews, or I didn't see it.
I use what I can get to test.
If Canson sent me some paper I'd test it - I simply can't afford to buy boxes of expensive paper for this sort of testing.
Hi Keith! Great videos :) Q: what is the difference between 'photo paper' -> 'matte photo paper' and 'fine art paper' -> 'photo paper pro premium matte a'? I use canons photo paper pro premium matte A4, but when I select that option in the fine art paper selection I have to use the manual feed tray. I rather use the top feed😅 Thanks!
Surface coating and paper finish - hence the 'look' of prints.
Art papers tend to be thicker
I believe the HFAP media setting lets you use the top feed on some printers, but that depends on what was used to create the paper's ICC profiles
Also depends on the model of printer...
@@KeithCooper ah, I see! I'm not sure if I made it clear, but I meant the difference between the 'matte photo paper' and ' photo paper premium matte a' options in canons printer software when selecting a media type and printer profile. Now I select the 'matte photo paper' option when printing on my pixma pro 200 even though I use canons premium matte paper, because I it allows me to use the top feed instead of the manual. I just wondered if I would get even better results if I selected the 'pro premium matte a' setting :)
@@sacrebleumichelle I don't know - use one of my specialist test images - reduced to A5 is enough, to see how well it performs
Usually there is not much difference, but not always...
www.northlight-images.co.uk/printer-test-images/
@@KeithCooper Alright, thanks! :)
Some thought, maybe with basic error on idea level but maybe it should work. If I have good, profiled scanner, then I have reasonably precise and wide tonal range device that sees colors in stable, constant, already measured way. Is there possible to scan my first test print (known pattern or other known image) and recalculate the result to my paper+inks+printer set' ICC, having a scanner's ICC? Maybe there's already a software for such operation but I don't know where to search.
I would write you an email you but I find YT comment a double useful place in such case - you see it, there is another interaction on your channel, and maybe other users know something to share.
Scanner based profiling has been round for many years [look at silverfast for example]
It didn't work particularly well back then and it still has the same limitations of the spectral response of the scanner - the RGB data from the scanner is simply not good enough for good profile making. It can work sometimes on some paper, but on others, it's awful. The scanner's icc is for producing good scans - a good looking scan is not the same as a useful dataset for creating printer profiles
What does the weight of the paper have to do with the quality of it? Example, the same matt paper, one is 260gsm and the other is 315gsm - what difference does the weight element bring? Assume both papers print the same image on the same printer and same ink set.
The weight is often due to the material the substrate is made from, so there is the obvious changes there.
However, there is a very strong element of marketing involved.
People who buy prints rarely note the thickness of a paper
People who buy paper often do...
I should also add that large (bigger than A2) prints on heavier papers can be easier to handle
Is my new Canon Image Prograf 300 producing Giclee prints on Pro Lustre paper
Given that the word 'Giclee' is meaningless marketing hokum, it either does or does not, depending on who you are talking to ;-)
It's a word used to sell stuff - it has no actual meaning any more... :-)
Thank you, Sir.
As you say, there are only a few actual paper manufacturers. Most paper sellers are simply paper rebranded from those manufacturers. But are there any papers you would avoid? I see some very cheap glossy paper from online sellers, but I am extremely wary of these papers. God knows what quality the papers are, their longetivity etc. So, how will someone who is outside of the industry know what is good paper, from a good paper seller, and what is not?
My only solution to that is to buy from a reputable supplier - here in the UK that covers quite a few. An incomplete list [just ones I know to talk to] would be:
Paper Spectrum (my local supplier)
In alphabetical order:
FineArtFoto
Fotospeed
Innova
PermaJet
Obviously there are the 'big names' I'd include such as Canson and Hannemuhle - others... well, it depends...
If a supplier can't provide me with full technical specs for a paper, that raises warning flags. If they don't provide any profiles at all, it raises even more.
Making profiles costs a business money - it's a sign of a commitment to quality to me.
If their web site gives me the impression they also run a market stall, it's not good
If they really push '3rd party ink' or use the word 'compatible' I'm wary...
I'll shortly have a video covering aspects of this - thanks for the question!
@@KeithCooper I use Red River paper...everytime they were at the photoplus expo held in NYC .I would grab some samples...