Gohdan's Theme is a Baroque Banger
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- I love all of the Wind Waker boss themes, but Gohdan's theme has so much going on that I thought it deserved its own full video. Let's take a look at how Gohdan's theme combines stylistic elements of the Baroque period of music with a more aggressive modern approach to create such a unique and compelling atmosphere for the fight!
0:00 - Intro
1:33 - Gohdan's Canon
5:40 - Gohdan's Dynamic Music
9:40 - Outro
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Kinda pointing out the obvious here, but two melodies? Two hands, floating about, doing their own thing? And then one harmonized melody when Gohdan's eyes are open, and focusing squarely on you? Mwah. So good. Love it when music Makes Sense like that.
😚👌
Finally, someone actually explains to me what a "baroque canon" is. This is a wonderful breakdown, thank you!
That feeling when you didn't read the textbook.
The "Eyes Open" section really reminds me of some 70s Prog Rock as well, specifically getting some major Yes and Emerson, Lake, and Palmer vibes from it.
This. Came looking for this comment, japanese composers were heavily influenced by all the prog and jazz fusion era
100% I could hear it!
I love counterpoint. Maybe the most useful class I ever took as a composer. Also, weird watching this with an air compressor outside humming an *almost* perfect C.
having an perfect c would annoy me so much. In my school, we have an ac unit humming either a c# or d so its not nearly as bad.
@@_canon5519 why would C annoy you? Lol just curious
So very glad this theme can finally get some attention! It's only grown on me more over the years. The opening section's polyphony is always really cool, but I'm also a fan of those huge, emphasized dissonant chords at the end.
I do wish someone would post a clean recording of the entire first section rather than the "official soundtrack" version. I love this theme so much
czcams.com/video/eZoXepRlro0/video.htmlsi=KWen7RIxpBFpMnU1
There is an upload but unfortunately every time I try to link it in a comment it gets removed.
Try searching for "Gohdan (Medley)" by Lost VGM
I made and uploaded a restored version too a few months ago (basically everything is direct-from-synthesizer quality). you’d find it in the download version though, I made a mistake in the video version
@@johnbacchus6169youtube doesn't like it when you have links in your comments ... eve if it's to itself. Then again I think its selectively enforced.
With the repeating footage in the background I imagine Link is actively analyzing the music while fighting the boss and won’t finish the fight until he’s done. Just like a crazy gremlin screaming music theory at you until he mentions he’s going to shoot you in the eye and then does.
do i sense a Phantom, Puppet, and Old Ganon theme analysis coming?
Wind waker is truly incredible in every area, but the music is especially standout even among a series renowned for iconic themes. I listen to OOT music and I enjoy it for nostalgia and how iconic it is, but I listen to wind waker and get all that plus the genuine appreciation for the music. I don't want to say it's 'more enjoyable' because they're both amazing OSTs, but I do enjoy wind waker as music more beyond it's context.
A suppose VGM evolves just like all other aspects of video games. Evolution isn't the same as progress, though
Anyone interested in canons should check out Moondog, especially his album "A New Sound of an Old Instrument".
He was quite a character. Blind since childhood, he volontarily spent many years as a hobo living on the streets of New York, often found reciting his poetry or playing his strange homebrewn instruments, always dressed in his Odin cosplay. Because of this, he became known to locals as The Viking of 6th Avenue. Unbeknownst to most, he also happened to be the greatest composer of counterpoint since Bach.
This came out at the perfect time as I just finished taking Counterpoint in College and yep this checks all the boxes of a counterpoint canon.
Really nice Analysis! I didn't remember this theme until it started playing
I didn't remember it until it got to the "eyes open" part. For whatever reason, that part seems to have stuck more in my brain from all those years ago.
Your work is fascinating and very inspiring, thank you! :)
Understanding how video games make people feel the emotions they do while playing them is one of the main things that got me interested in video game development when I was a wee tyke, and this channel is the one I usually point people toward if they want to know about how the music in their favorite games probably has a lot to do with why those games left such a strong impact on them. Even if you can't read music, he does a great job of explaining the psychology of each tune he analyzes.
This channel is so underrated. Excellent job sir.
Man I really wish I could subscribe twice to this channel! Such amazing content!
I have been waiting eagerly for this video ever since you teased it in your last Wind Waker analysis!! And boy, I have not been disappointed 🤩 This is definitely my favorite Zelda piece on a musical level! Baroque music is the best music, and Gohdan’s theme is theeeee best modern twist on it
Such a cool piece, thanks for giving it its own video.
Interestingly enough, on an orchestral arrangement of it, someone said that the original sounded like "the composer just spammed keys randomly" I think it may be due to how the music tries to be a canon and have that baroque sound without keeping a strong melody structure and motifs or counterpoint, just filling the precedent canon line without continuity, unlike other Zelda musics like alttp castle theme you analysed in another video. I don't think it's a bad music but it could be better. The dynamic part is my favorite, the 4ths are really well used.
true! i also thought it could be better-it feels like in comparison to bach it really lacks the motifs and complexity
Maybe you could listen carefully again to notice that there's a clear motif at the beginning and the end of the canon. Even looking past adherent elements like repetition of motifs, I think is a very well composition that the two voices complements perfectly without feeling bland or saturate, to me it doesn't feel like it's putting random notes to fit in without more, it isn't a strict barroque sound, but it's clear that the it doesn't going for that at 100%, the rest of the sonority is more exclusive. For being a canon, it can cover more one key, that isn't common in a strict canon. And if you notice, the basses are the same for the hands and red eyes dynamic changes, they are capable of fit in two keys as well.
@@tekhawaiiEven so, motifs are adherent elements, and it depends on what you call "complexity".
@@Loikan16 descending by step lines... really seems like a consequence of the harmony. Not the key changes, the melody is reaching the chords in a forced way not chaotic or dissonant but sticking to dominants too long way and suddenly going up an octave with no voice leading to the other line as if copypasted carelessly, not really what someone singing would come up with and it doesn't have to be Bach, but generators like tonica can do a canon for any melody better. The quintuplet trill, it's not a sound effect, expected, responded similarly to or setting up anything, just a sudden ornament to evoke baroque, yet more cohesive that many parts. Seen many canons, even a to the tritone, trimodal one and one played on reverse on itself four times forward and backward less forced. It's a short boss, no need to do anything more than evoke baroque to contrast so it's fine and I even liked the music during the fight but it's no masterpiece... melody-wise of course, all the rest of the backing track is excellent.
I think it's because when we think of fugues and canons, we think of Bach. Sometimes we need to keep in mind that Bach was a genius, and not everything should be held to the same standard. In addition, the baseline is pushing a more modern tone that might not stick to a comfortable mode.
Let's remember that not every canon will be nearly as good as the one in brandenburg 5 mvt 3. If we were to compare it to Pachelbel's canon, I'd say there are many spots in the score that would completely beat out canon in d.
Great video!
Really nice analysis as always, thank for the job !
Stellar video, as always!
gohdan altogether is just a master class of a boss
the sheikah
the protectors of hyrule, its people and the royal family
what else would they build to test the new hero then a mimic of the same dark creature that threatened the sage of shadows all those years ago?
Awesome watch! Was hoping you'd look at this one. I'm also a huge fan of how they did the puppet ganon music in this game too
The title alone earned a like from me 😂
Awesome video
Yessss I was worried you wouldn't talk about gohdan after the wind waker vid
Wow, big fan of this soundtrack but I've never realized how cool this theme is, because its cool in a completely different way. Wow.
The promised video has finally come!!
I love this theme so much
Never noticed. Amazing.
Yess! I've always been surprised with how this boss theme doesn't get the recognition it deserves
I loved this song, and now I love it more!
Yknow the more I listen to it, the more it reminds me of Contrapunctus IX which I've just recently played in my universities band
I really loved that animation at the end of Gohdan spitting money at the patreon logo as link is dancing happily! A really cute touch to an amazing video!!
That was fascinating! I haven't studied music theory in like 25 years. It never did click for me. This video made some good sense, even if I didn't follow the whole thing. Bravo!
This song (and entire boss) feel very underrated! Amazing analysis, definitely love it more now!
I wish Gohdan was a bit more challenging, because it's a shame such a good song is tied to a battle that passes by very fast if you use lock on to use the Hero's Bow.
I can't believe i got here in time for this
Don't worry, it's an online video so you won't miss it.
8:00 might be a reference to the original death mountain theme
The middle section has real Emerson Lake and Palmer energy
I missed out on all these, for whatever reason I couldn't get into Windwaker, and something about the constant sense of being rushed (IDK blame my anxiety) with Majora's Mask so I never played either all that much. Still neat seeing this stuff broken down, even as a music theory layman.
I'd love to see 8-bit take on Risk of Rain, the whole damn soundtrack from the original game is just a giant leit motif. Culminate with "...con lentitud poderosa" from RoR2 since it is a complete re-orchestration of the final stage and that'd make for an awesome vid. I can only hope he or enough patrons read this and agree.
Shoots and Ladders, l can see why Godhan gets a vid to himself now~
Baroque counterpoint was my favorite music class in college. I was completely addicted to Bach back then.
I always thought this sounded like it could be an Emerson Lake and Palmer song
Now you’re legally required to make a video on the Phantom Ganon and regular Ganondorf material
gonna play this on organ this week omg
I have it as my ringtone, it's just so goddamn good
You should join the list of Nebula creators! I think your work would be an excellent fit, it's lacking a lot of gaming analysis content.
Great analysis, as always! Personally, I never liked this theme, though. I did notice the composer put a lot of thought into this but always thought the electric organ sample that dominates the track was not really up to snuff and sounded out of place, like a placeholder that made it into the game. A nicer organ or ochestral soundfont would sound so much nicer and more dramatic.
All i rember from this fight was rolling like crazy to avoid fireballs lol
Study Bachs C Major Invention on how to take two ideas (the first 8 notes) and use it for the whole composition. You see two independent lines, but Bach gives you an elementary yet masterful way on how to develop two ideas. Great video!
Let's not hold every canon and fugue up to Bach's standards. It would be VERY difficult to compose a canon that is nearly as good as the one in brandenburg 5 mvt 3. If we were to look at some less masterful composers, I would say that this would be solid in comparison. Let's also keep in mind that the melody might sound weird simply because it's trying to harmonize with the baseline that really isn't compatible with a canon.
Thanks for analyzing...
i was JUST watching the other video and listening to this theme yesterday! really excited to watch this analysis
I've thought this for years
Great video! I wonder if there are other video game pieces that feature a strict canon?
Can we get something on the mini boss theme? If any theme from this game inspires a change in heartrate for me its that one
Please review Umineko When They Cry music. You'll literally come out of it so so happy!!
Babe wake up, 8-Bit Music Theory uploaded.
So you mention covering all of the boss themes from Wind Waker, but how could you leave out two of arguably the best boss themes from the game - Puppet Ganon and Helmaroc King??? Puppet Ganon's theme in particular is a banger; especially during his snake form. And the musical build-up to the Helmaroc King fight is so satisfyingly intense and dramatic. I really wish you would've covered these as well.
I don't think it's a stretch to say the two voices of the canon represent the two hands flying around the arena
Speaking of baroque style video game music: you should definitely check out the arcade riven themed
YEEEEES
When this game came out i was taking classical guitar lessons and was a big bach nerd. Over all not a huge fan of the WW boss themes but This theme was such a wtf moment in my life as a musician and gamer, its on such another level. Honestly its top 5 zelda themes of all time.
Since I saw it in other comments, id like to share that I too would prefer videos without AI art. Just as some feedback, if wanted.
This boss theme was always my least favorite because I didn't understand what was going on, so this video has helped me appreciate it much more!
That fight is actually just live footage of me trying to learn a Bach fugue
The motion tracking on the Patreon logo at the end though? 👀
6:36 actually this section of the music reminds a lot of Star Fox 64’s Venom theme.
It also uses this style of quartal harmony (it is from the same composer). Overall, Hajime Wakai likes to use them to create suspense and tension, he also has his particular way of composing.
This track heavily influenced my track, Artificial Foe, for Veloren.
Unfortunately it's not in the game as of yet since boss-specific music hasn't been implemented yet.
Makes me wonder how it would sound on Werckmeister III with Baroque tuning (or other temperaments for that matter).
In fact, I wonder... does any video game explore temperament in its music?
I would love to see some analyses of music from the Mega Man Zero series. In particular, “Judgement Day” from MMZ3 and “Falling Down” from MMZ4 seem to have some wacky time signatures that I’m having trouble figuring out
6:38 ELP progressive rock lol
Question: in your description of the music evoking a sense of "being challenged by the Almighty" /because/ of its baroque sound (our cultural associations with baroque music), I ask if those feelings are INHERENT to the way the music sounds or CONTINGENT upon our collective knowledge of baroque music and the cultural connotation therein?
Basically, if we took a person of tabula rasa and showed them something like Gohdan's theme would they also feel the same things that acculturated people feel towards a similar musical piece?
I've done numerous analysis' of Zelda music, especially boss themes, and I'm so upset I never realized Gohdan's theme is a canon. Going to bed upset now lol
Hey man if you haven't yet you should do Rawk Hawk's theme from Thousand Year Door!
bro i literally complained that this song was not included in your zelda video. Noise
I'm surprised I never noticed just how Emerson, Lake and Palmery this theme is. I'd never really given it much thought because the boss itself is so mechanically generic, but it's really a brilliant composition in its own right.
Before you face Ganondorf, you must defeat... Canondorf!
"Fighting for key and country" 😂 how dare you
What happened to Link's arrows when he missed Gohdan. He baroque them...
You should check out the OFF ost. It's real good.
Sounds like something Keith Emerson would play.
Does anyone know where I could sheet music for this song?
I was thinking... Why don't you talk about Tim Follin, like Ghouls and Ghosts for Commodore 64, Solstice, or some Commodore 64 geniuses and like Commodore 64, like his Robocop 3, Cybernoid II, Myth, Supremacy, Alloy Run, Afterburner, etc
I wish FF XII was in this! I feel like it has some great moments like this
Ah, I hear from the writing of this video that you've been watching CGP Grey recently
Update on my girlfriend and I playing Wind waker: (we've been busy so we've only gotten to play a few sessions since last time)
-She thinks Tetra is annoying, "is she gonna be around the whole time?" (She'll come around)
-Oh no, are we not going to save the sister until the very end??? (Again we aren't very far yet, she will enjoy Aryll joining the pirates)
-I'm too tired to pay attention to the Surfs Up Zelda tonight, can we do Tears of the Kingdom instead? (Now Link is Shia LaBeouf and Tetra is zooey deschanel and the king of Red Lions is Jeff Bridges 😅)
-"wait, why are you reading the boat as Sir Patrick Stewart?" "Oh no reason 😁"
I'm excited to keep going!
Gonna have to echo the reservations about algorithmically generated art.
Real artists worked hard to make the pieces that were scraped by these programs.
1:34-1:45 Forgive my ignorance here (full disclosure: I suck at music theory), but isn’t this basically the same thing as counterpoint?
Why the "to the irritation of music students everywhere"? As far as I (thought I) understood it, counterpoint & harmony (which mostly go hand-in-hand) are among the most fundamental concepts in music.
Harmony and counterpoint as general concepts are fundamental in music, but the baroque expression if it specifically is Really Really Hard.
Well, it's a *specific type* of counterpoint, where both melodies are the same melody played out-of-sync. And for the "to the irritation of music students" part, I think it's because most students will, at some point in their music education, have to compose - well, try to, at least - a canon, and BOY is it difficult 😅
Thanks for the clarification
I also found it bold to try to explain the concept of a canon without even mentioning counterpoint.
@@tdark987 No problem! I love talking about music theory 😁
W new vid out
A cannon isn’t that difficult to compose, just copy and paste, and as you said leave space and try to create nice 3rds and 6ths.
IT'S HEEEEEEEEERE
Umm... I think you missed a boss... Or four. Technically two but puppet Gannon has to be all extra like that.
It's Prog Rock.
"there was one boss I left out"
no there are still two bosses that are missing: ganon and puppet ganon.
But anyway, nice video, I learned a lot.
Oh my God, you're right, it IS a polyphonic Baroque piece. You know, I never really paid attention. I think it might be just polyphonic enough that I lose the plot at some point. You can't really sing along, you know?
If it is not baroque...you know the rest
1:39 not the ai generated image..
Loser.
is anyone else hearing the toothless dance..?
Isn't a canon in 2 a bit lame by baroque standards? Was that a limitation of the hardware or a limitation of the composer?
Great video, super interesting analysis!
What's a lot less great and interesting is the usage of NN-generated imagery at 1:37. It would be cooler if you could avoid doing that!