Excellent explanation of Plato here. Plato's observations from ancient Greece were so prescient. On the lack of moral discrimination and inappropriate applications of equality, it's as if Plato had visions of 21st century California!
Hannah Arendt's epic book The Life Of The Mind -One/Thinking, Two/Willing Way richer and way better. If one is really interested in Plato (inconsequential to current reality)
Indeed, democracy was tried once in ancient Greece for about 200 years and it failed miserably. The use of that word today, mostly during electoral campaigns, is meant to give the general population the illusion of decisional power over the representatives they think they elect to supposedly take care of their rights but who, while pretending to promote freedom and democracy all over the world, in fact protect the rights of the legal persons that corporations found a way to morph into and, using their huge financial acquisitions, now fund through laws they have taken complete control of through lobbying and other crooked corrupt means. In other words, if anyone uses the word democracy to describe the system we are living in today, there is a good chance that that person is a crook, a liar or someone who has no idea what he/she's talking about, there is no such thing as democracy in this world, it wouldn't work, even representative democracy is a misnomer. The US was founded as a republic, it failed, it is now a profitocracy! : )
Sir, I watch and admire all of your videos. I have a suggestion/request: kindly, provide a suggested reading/chapter/article on the given topic in your description just like the professors do in classes. That would be great.
Same, I was 19 and while I understood it in the sense of what the words meant, there's something about life experience that helps you really absorb what philosophy/philosophers mean in a kind of more concrete way
One important thing to be noted is that Plato's conception of democracy is very different from the contemporary conception. In assessing ancient thoughts, you really need to put yourself in their shoes in order to achieve a better judgment.
On a surface level it seems very accurate. But Platos thesis suffers from only having a surface level analysis of why these things are bad in the first place. For example, foreigners being treated the same as citizens. If they are both willing to contribute and improve the society, why should they be treated unequally? Alot of his takes on democracy don’t hold up to the modern sciences and understandings of how alot of these things actually happen as we’ve changed our society. Still, super interesting to think about and take into account when discussing where to take society from here.
When "majority" wins because of the influence of the supposed "educated" who operate within Supreme authority to undermine the court of public opinion, then Democracy has failed. And indeed, it has.
"...democracy tends to evolve out of an oligarchy..." They become more self- indulgent and less worthy of honor. Yes, King George and now Joe "Boughten".
In Hannah Arendt's epic book The Life Of The Mind -One/Thinking, Two/Willing She gives a thorough bashing, lets say a befitting response to Plato and much of his philosophy. Trashing it in essence. Plato was in essence ok with slaves and slavery, plus nothing much to say or think about women and their rights (or even existence So much for a shit violent civilization totally dependent on slavery (like modern India today) talking about democracy and demos and what not. Adios~
Not true about women; he held that women and men, though different, are equally capable and should have equal positions in the state. I’ll be talking about that soon.
I cannot tell how much I hate this cocksure generation of yours. "I don't have to think over Plato's arguments, because he doesn't meat some of my current expectations. One should only read philosophers whith whom one agrees". You really know it all, but still haven't read your Plato, not even the Republic.
You are accusing Plato for something that was universal during his time. You forgot that that he was a genius, probably the greatest one through the human history, but not God. If Hannah Arendt criticized him in the way as you described it only shows that she did not understand much. Karl Popper had a more justified critic of Plato as the enemy of the open societies, though I think that he missed something in his critics. For one Plato´s philosopher kings lead a very modest life and they are totally dependent on the people. Yes they have power to rule, but how powerful are they when their subsistance is totally dependent on the people?
@@zhengyangwu8289, I suggest you ask the helots how much power they had, even though the Spartans were entirely dependent on them for their subsistence. Or the peasants how powerful they were, given that the 'nobility' of Europe depended entirely on them for their subsistence in the Medieval era. Plato merely propagandized for aristocratic rule - giving it a patina of respectability by insisting his rulers be wise (at least in their own eyes). Yet these 'wise' rulers (at least according to The Republic) were to destroy all family life, and make all people slaves to the state. If you want to see a picture of Plato's ideal, read "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.
@@tom_curtis Obviously you have not got so much when you think that Plato´s philosopher king is just like Spartan king and the European princes, or his state will be something like "the brave new world". Plato´s state is the opposite of it. I think that we don´t understand Plato´s philosopher king if we ignore the fact that he leads a "miserable" life, and "he must", Plato emphasized.
It's insane how closely his ideas match our current society.
the part about immigrants and animals hits particularly hard
Wow, how accurate he was. Totally applicable to the modern USA.
For both parties funnily enough.
How so?
@@TSEliot1978 You must be starting your own dictionary?🤔 "Funnily"?👀
I admire your efficiency in this video, you've managed to condense so many important points into a 15 min talk, chapeau bas
This is what is happening right now in almost all modern democratic nations. The decay into tyranny that is.
‘Almost’ , it is happening to a hitherto unforeseen degree
This seems to be spot on to exactly right now .
Excellent explanation of Plato here. Plato's observations from ancient Greece were so prescient. On the lack of moral discrimination and inappropriate applications of equality, it's as if Plato had visions of 21st century California!
Plato is my favourite human being ! He has taught me more about civilization than anyone else !
Great explanation. Thanks
Such a strong explanation here, from the best of the best!
Hannah Arendt's epic book The Life Of The Mind -One/Thinking, Two/Willing
Way richer and way better. If one is really interested in Plato (inconsequential to current reality)
Indeed, democracy was tried once in ancient Greece for about 200 years and it failed miserably. The use of that word today, mostly during electoral campaigns, is meant to give the general population the illusion of decisional power over the representatives they think they elect to supposedly take care of their rights but who, while pretending to promote freedom and democracy all over the world, in fact protect the rights of the legal persons that corporations found a way to morph into and, using their huge financial acquisitions, now fund through laws they have taken complete control of through lobbying and other crooked corrupt means.
In other words, if anyone uses the word democracy to describe the system we are living in today, there is a good chance that that person is a crook, a liar or someone who has no idea what he/she's talking about, there is no such thing as democracy in this world, it wouldn't work, even representative democracy is a misnomer. The US was founded as a republic, it failed, it is now a profitocracy! : )
Sir, I watch and admire all of your videos. I have a suggestion/request: kindly, provide a suggested reading/chapter/article on the given topic in your description just like the professors do in classes. That would be great.
For this one, the basic text is classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.9.viii.html.
Great suggestion! I love having something to read to dive a bit deeper
timely information - I had largely forgotten what plato said, being a youth at the time...thanks
I was in the same position. These books of the Republic didn't click with me when I read them years ago; now they amaze me.
Same, I was 19 and while I understood it in the sense of what the words meant, there's something about life experience that helps you really absorb what philosophy/philosophers mean in a kind of more concrete way
Should I read this as meaning that you were a child at the time that Plato was alive?
@@PhiloofAlexandria when did you read the book for the first time?
This is a helpful review of the text.
Yes, indeed. Something to think about when you go out in the backyard to sit on your three holer.
wow almost everything plato had said actually what happen to almost all western country
❤
the presentation of conclusions and personal views dressed in patchwork plato and the actual book 8 are 2 very different stories
What happens when government and corporations are the same as in positive law? I think that would lead to fascism. Government is a corporation
What are the cons?
@@HarbingeroftheNew I don’t understand your question. Can you be more specific?
@@josephsmyth832 That is exacly like that
It is strange that Plato could not see the true practical function of a democracy.
One important thing to be noted is that Plato's conception of democracy is very different from the contemporary conception. In assessing ancient thoughts, you really need to put yourself in their shoes in order to achieve a better judgment.
what is the true practical function of a democracy?
Which is what? The modern decadent age?
@@die_schlechtere_Milch Just what I wanted to ask!
Plato did see , but because he see it he also see the PROBLEM of it , like Danial just explain it to you bruv
The Trial of Socrates by I.F. Stone is a good read for anyone interested in the subject here.
On a surface level it seems very accurate. But Platos thesis suffers from only having a surface level analysis of why these things are bad in the first place. For example, foreigners being treated the same as citizens. If they are both willing to contribute and improve the society, why should they be treated unequally? Alot of his takes on democracy don’t hold up to the modern sciences and understandings of how alot of these things actually happen as we’ve changed our society. Still, super interesting to think about and take into account when discussing where to take society from here.
When "majority" wins because of the influence of the supposed "educated" who operate within Supreme authority to undermine the court of public opinion, then Democracy has failed. And indeed, it has.
"...democracy tends to evolve out of an oligarchy..." They become more self- indulgent and less worthy of honor. Yes, King George and now Joe "Boughten".
In Hannah Arendt's epic book The Life Of The Mind -One/Thinking, Two/Willing
She gives a thorough bashing, lets say a befitting response to Plato and much of his philosophy. Trashing it in essence.
Plato was in essence ok with slaves and slavery, plus nothing much to say or think about women and their rights (or even existence
So much for a shit violent civilization totally dependent on slavery (like modern India today) talking about democracy and demos and what not. Adios~
Not true about women; he held that women and men, though different, are equally capable and should have equal positions in the state. I’ll be talking about that soon.
I cannot tell how much I hate this cocksure generation of yours. "I don't have to think over Plato's arguments, because he doesn't meat some of my current expectations. One should only read philosophers whith whom one agrees". You really know it all, but still haven't read your Plato, not even the Republic.
You are accusing Plato for something that was universal during his time. You forgot that that he was a genius, probably the greatest one through the human history, but not God.
If Hannah Arendt criticized him in the way as you described it only shows that she did not understand much. Karl Popper had a more justified critic of Plato as the enemy of the open societies, though I think that he missed something in his critics. For one Plato´s philosopher kings lead a very modest life and they are totally dependent on the people. Yes they have power to rule, but how powerful are they when their subsistance is totally dependent on the people?
@@zhengyangwu8289, I suggest you ask the helots how much power they had, even though the Spartans were entirely dependent on them for their subsistence. Or the peasants how powerful they were, given that the 'nobility' of Europe depended entirely on them for their subsistence in the Medieval era. Plato merely propagandized for aristocratic rule - giving it a patina of respectability by insisting his rulers be wise (at least in their own eyes). Yet these 'wise' rulers (at least according to The Republic) were to destroy all family life, and make all people slaves to the state. If you want to see a picture of Plato's ideal, read "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley.
@@tom_curtis Obviously you have not got so much when you think that Plato´s philosopher king is just like Spartan king and the European princes, or his state will be something like "the brave new world". Plato´s state is the opposite of it.
I think that we don´t understand Plato´s philosopher king if we ignore the fact that he leads a "miserable" life, and "he must", Plato emphasized.