Thanks for the tutorial, none of the other "how to" videos I've seen said anything about the the shoulder roll.... also could you do one for the ring planche
Ice Ice Baby saw a hole in those other videos and took advantage of it. When I was competing I had to learn about the real technique from actual high level ring guys... wish there was more access to good gymnastics technique. Have unedited planche footage I might put together soon.
@@trainershatehim thanks I'm going to start incorporating that to my iron cross training today... I subscribed to your channel I'll keep you posted on my progress
Thanks. I needed to see someone do an iron cross, because one if the characters in the novel I'm writing does one, and this was the perfect example to watch so I could describe it. I'll let you know when the book comes out. Probably summer of 2023. I also want to get one of those total gym things. Time to check Craig's List..
That was a nice tutorial man, includes stuff that most tutorials out there don't. So, I have a question for you man... how many times per week would you suggest that we train for the Iron Cross??
Spyros Donos 3x a week, or more depending. My in-season athletes normally work it every other day, but for the average person it depends on current training volume and what else you are doing. 3x a week is a good place to start for a gymnast.
Good video smartly done , safely done and as you can see it's all about the shoulders. Another very good video, remember be patient y'all have a great evening I, highly recommend this video . Remember practice practice practice.ll PS don't give up.ll
When I was younger I had heard you should keep them apart, keep a hollow back and squeeze your lat muscles. I think when you're actually trying the cross, this cue doesn't work as well in practice. I would think about keeping your arms directly to your sides - if you squeezed your shoulder blades together, your arms would likely move behind you, and if you kept them apart your arms may move in front of your body. For reference, I tore my pec muscle the last time I did a cross - because I let my arms get behind me too much and it stretched my pec too far. Good luck!
Man, i trained with jury chechi, he does some days of Workouts every month or so in Italy. He said that the shoulders should be kept neutral, neither internally nor externally rotated.
No, not even close. They have a rating system for the difficulty of skills that ranges from A-I, A being the lowest difficulty and I being the highest. An iron cross is a B.
Hey man great video! Was just wondering if there are any long term shoulder issues/degradation/impingement regarding internal rotation in that position? Would it still be valid if elbow pit was still pointing down but shoulders were more neutral? Thanks!
In terms of the internal rotation, it's very tough to say. Everyone's anatomy is different and as far as I know, no studies have been done to show the effects of the cross on your joints. Regardless, what I can tell you is that it is going to beat your body up. be patient with training it, whether your shoulders are rolled forward or not. I tore my pec last year trying to do a cross, without properly warming up, and without training it for the last 6 years. If you can keep your shoulders neutral but keep the elbow pit down, I don't see why this would be an issue, as long as its a comfortable position for you, it just may take longer to build the strength to hold it.
@@trainershatehim Thanks for the reply! Damn that sucks man. How did it heal? Are you fully recovered? When you say warmup, what would a proper warmup be before holding a cross? I usually warmup the shoulders, external rotation work, scapula upward/downward rotation work, etc. not sure if that's enough. I remember reading a post from Coach (www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/31046-iron-cross-form/) "Some people are able to train the basic cross with internal shoulder rotation and remain pain free. Others, myself included, will find they develop biceps tendonitis and shoulder impingement if they focus on strongly internally rotating the shoulders while in a cross. As there is no where to find out which group you fall into, as a matter of course it is safest to train with a slight external rotation." The only thing I don't quiet fully get is, how can you externally rotate your shoulders while internally rotating your elbows? Aren't those two kinda connected or separate? I mean I kinda can retract roll back the shoulder to external rotation and point the elbow pit forward/down, its really tricky so I "think" Im doing it right but not sure... My philosophy so far has been to just not train the cross directly, yes It is a skill I want to attain but I'm building other skills before it that should prep the joints better, PL, HS, etc. I already have a 20 secs supinated BL, solid 30 sec XR RTO support, RTO Lsit, and a 3x6-8 25lbs dumbell maltese/planche presses so straight arm conditioning is good, will plan to keep on improving all that before trying out the cross. I do remember trying it out last year, but the assist grip, i repped out 7 presses no problem, I feel like the assist grip takes out a huge amount of the stress, as I have around a 30 inch sleeve, pretty long leverage. I've never attempted a full cross without assist, as even when doing XR and extending wider and wider, i feel the stress on the joints. What do you think of that approach?
@@trainershatehim Also thoughts on IC trainers? yay or nay? Some say its good to build muscle in cross position but takes away the elbow stress IC induces so it may bring more harm than good. What was your experience with them? (I made a pair for fun end of last year but didn't get to use them much instagram.com/p/B6l1IGvH4aW/
I would imagine external is better on the shoulders in the long run - but internal is better if you're trying to progress faster in the sport, most gymnasts use internal rotation now for their crosses.
Keep the rings turned out from the top, and roll your hand over as you come down - it should be gradual. If you roll too soon, your hand will probably slip and your arm will shoot through the ring. If you wait too long, there will be too much pressure in holding the position to also move your hand.
Take the band off and do cross pulls with just bodyweight 👀 In all honesty, I'd see if you can find a less supportive band to advance to, or add in more holds, or even butterfly pulls by going below the cross position.
No - but I do think it might be healthier for the shoulder joint long-term to learn it with them back. The skill itself is easier to learn with shoulders rolled forward.
Bimal kumar That’s an incredibly hard question to answer, because it really depends. There are so many variables that effect this, including training age, general joint health, strength, muscle mass, flexibility, etc. It may be more challenging at your age, but it can definitely be done, as long as you work at it consistently and are patient. I think at the London olympics there was a rings finalist who was 39 years old.
@@trainershatehimThat London Olympics finalist started gymnastic at small age 😂 so you are right it depending on individual fittnes , I stop playing football at 52 and doing calesthenics at 62 ,so my fitnes is not your avarege 62 year old . Calesthenics is easier for people who played sports or did weight training ,starting from zero in any age is not going to be easy . Rings are one of the best equipments ever .
Absolutely not, it is a deduction of points in the gymnastics world to use a false grip, BUT it is extremely helpful when learning/developing the skill. In terms of pec strength, I would've thought lower pec is doing more work since that is the direction you're putting force into. Who knows?
Thanks for the tutorial, none of the other "how to" videos I've seen said anything about the the shoulder roll.... also could you do one for the ring planche
Ice Ice Baby saw a hole in those other videos and took advantage of it. When I was competing I had to learn about the real technique from actual high level ring guys... wish there was more access to good gymnastics technique. Have unedited planche footage I might put together soon.
@@trainershatehim thanks I'm going to start incorporating that to my iron cross training today... I subscribed to your channel I'll keep you posted on my progress
what is the best position for the health? Internal or external rotation?
@@paulkretschmer7118 External obviously. Putting so much pressure on your joints can cause injury.
U get it ?
Glad I found your channel. It’s hard to find proper tutorials on moves like these
Appreciate it
Thanks. I needed to see someone do an iron cross, because one if the characters in the novel I'm writing does one, and this was the perfect example to watch so I could describe it. I'll let you know when the book comes out. Probably summer of 2023. I also want to get one of those total gym things. Time to check Craig's List..
That's very cool, I hope the writing has been going well so far! I got my total gym from a 'Play it Again Sports' store.
This is a brilliant tutorial video 🙏🏼 Thank you for this
Of course! I appreciate that.
That was a nice tutorial man, includes stuff that most tutorials out there don't. So, I have a question for you man... how many times per week would you suggest that we train for the Iron Cross??
Spyros Donos 3x a week, or more depending. My in-season athletes normally work it every other day, but for the average person it depends on current training volume and what else you are doing. 3x a week is a good place to start for a gymnast.
bro, I was about to write that this video was criminally underrated, but.... it is actually your entire channel!
thanks for sharing and stay safe!
Appreciate that! My time will come, just gotta keep working on the craft.
Hope this video was helpful!
Im currently training really hard for the iron cross, and this will help me alot! Thanks!
Of course, good luck!
great tutorial, gonna start incorporating this
Amaizing ! More gymnastic rings tutorials please
Soon to come hopefully!
Good video smartly done , safely done and as you can see it's all about the shoulders. Another very good video, remember be patient y'all have a great evening I, highly recommend this video .
Remember practice practice practice.ll PS don't give up.ll
My god that looks so much fun
Very well explained
Thanks bro so useful tutorial 💥
I appreciate it! Glad to help.
thanx man!!!
what about shoulder blades? do you press them together? keep them apart?
When I was younger I had heard you should keep them apart, keep a hollow back and squeeze your lat muscles. I think when you're actually trying the cross, this cue doesn't work as well in practice. I would think about keeping your arms directly to your sides - if you squeezed your shoulder blades together, your arms would likely move behind you, and if you kept them apart your arms may move in front of your body. For reference, I tore my pec muscle the last time I did a cross - because I let my arms get behind me too much and it stretched my pec too far.
Good luck!
Man, i trained with jury chechi, he does some days of Workouts every month or so in Italy. He said that the shoulders should be kept neutral, neither internally nor externally rotated.
He'd be more knowledgeable than me, but, that does go against conventional wisdom, since most ring-men today internally rotate their shoulders.
I saw a video of that! Yes, neutral cross is brutal.
Is it the hardest skill of gymnastics?
No, not even close. They have a rating system for the difficulty of skills that ranges from A-I, A being the lowest difficulty and I being the highest. An iron cross is a B.
Chuck Norris would be proud
Hey man great video! Was just wondering if there are any long term shoulder issues/degradation/impingement regarding internal rotation in that position? Would it still be valid if elbow pit was still pointing down but shoulders were more neutral? Thanks!
In terms of the internal rotation, it's very tough to say. Everyone's anatomy is different and as far as I know, no studies have been done to show the effects of the cross on your joints. Regardless, what I can tell you is that it is going to beat your body up. be patient with training it, whether your shoulders are rolled forward or not. I tore my pec last year trying to do a cross, without properly warming up, and without training it for the last 6 years.
If you can keep your shoulders neutral but keep the elbow pit down, I don't see why this would be an issue, as long as its a comfortable position for you, it just may take longer to build the strength to hold it.
@@trainershatehim Thanks for the reply! Damn that sucks man. How did it heal? Are you fully recovered?
When you say warmup, what would a proper warmup be before holding a cross? I usually warmup the shoulders, external rotation work, scapula upward/downward rotation work, etc. not sure if that's enough.
I remember reading a post from Coach (www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/31046-iron-cross-form/)
"Some people are able to train the basic cross with internal shoulder rotation and remain pain free. Others, myself included, will find they develop biceps tendonitis and shoulder impingement if they focus on strongly internally rotating the shoulders while in a cross. As there is no where to find out which group you fall into, as a matter of course it is safest to train with a slight external rotation."
The only thing I don't quiet fully get is, how can you externally rotate your shoulders while internally rotating your elbows? Aren't those two kinda connected or separate? I mean I kinda can retract roll back the shoulder to external rotation and point the elbow pit forward/down, its really tricky so I "think" Im doing it right but not sure...
My philosophy so far has been to just not train the cross directly, yes It is a skill I want to attain but I'm building other skills before it that should prep the joints better, PL, HS, etc. I already have a 20 secs supinated BL, solid 30 sec XR RTO support, RTO Lsit, and a 3x6-8 25lbs dumbell maltese/planche presses so straight arm conditioning is good, will plan to keep on improving all that before trying out the cross. I do remember trying it out last year, but the assist grip, i repped out 7 presses no problem, I feel like the assist grip takes out a huge amount of the stress, as I have around a 30 inch sleeve, pretty long leverage. I've never attempted a full cross without assist, as even when doing XR and extending wider and wider, i feel the stress on the joints. What do you think of that approach?
@@trainershatehim Also thoughts on IC trainers? yay or nay? Some say its good to build muscle in cross position but takes away the elbow stress IC induces so it may bring more harm than good. What was your experience with them? (I made a pair for fun end of last year but didn't get to use them much instagram.com/p/B6l1IGvH4aW/
vexe have a cross yet?
@@zambuzan Working on it :D You?
I've always done it internally rotated shoulders. It was easier lol and I couldn't do the external anyways 💀
I'm not surprised, external is definitely harder!
Why internally rotated is better ?
I thought externally rotated is the best and also the most difficult one of course.
I would imagine external is better on the shoulders in the long run - but internal is better if you're trying to progress faster in the sport, most gymnasts use internal rotation now for their crosses.
I still can’t understand how to maintain the false grip while lowering down into the cross
Keep the rings turned out from the top, and roll your hand over as you come down - it should be gradual. If you roll too soon, your hand will probably slip and your arm will shoot through the ring. If you wait too long, there will be too much pressure in holding the position to also move your hand.
What would you suggest as a progression after you can do sets of 8-10 cross pulls with a resistance band?
Take the band off and do cross pulls with just bodyweight 👀
In all honesty, I'd see if you can find a less supportive band to advance to, or add in more holds, or even butterfly pulls by going below the cross position.
Is the goal to learn it with the shoulders back??
No - but I do think it might be healthier for the shoulder joint long-term to learn it with them back. The skill itself is easier to learn with shoulders rolled forward.
Till what age one can do this? I am 37 years old and i can do basic and intermediate ring exercises.
Bimal kumar That’s an incredibly hard question to answer, because it really depends. There are so many variables that effect this, including training age, general joint health, strength, muscle mass, flexibility, etc. It may be more challenging at your age, but it can definitely be done, as long as you work at it consistently and are patient. I think at the London olympics there was a rings finalist who was 39 years old.
@@trainershatehimThat London Olympics finalist started gymnastic at small age 😂 so you are right it depending on individual fittnes ,
I stop playing football at 52 and doing calesthenics at 62 ,so my fitnes is not your avarege 62 year old . Calesthenics is easier for people who played sports or did weight training ,starting from zero in any age is not going to be easy . Rings are one of the best equipments ever .
Does it require false grip? Also is it true that the iron cross requires upper pectoralis strength? (32.8 seconds world record holder said this)
Absolutely not, it is a deduction of points in the gymnastics world to use a false grip, BUT it is extremely helpful when learning/developing the skill.
In terms of pec strength, I would've thought lower pec is doing more work since that is the direction you're putting force into. Who knows?
Great tutorial
'Preciate it.
Mandarino-- Swedish never, Italo! MANCHARINOZ
But in any, calculation-- it isn't a, cross! Grids prove it. Plane Geometry! In my mother, tongue, K or a shark =
Kalkulus! PK my, first name.
sir what