DO WE OR DON'T WE, a look at what is required when carrying out a service on a gas boiler.
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Derek in this video on do we or don't we on a boiler service shows us what we should and what we don't need to do when carrying out a service of a condensing gas combination boiler.
I work on LAV and RPH. I have to go around and do landlord records and servicing on multiple sites for the company, and historically, engineers in the past have smashed out 20 units a day (checking a boiler, cooker and even fires in each one) then I come along and do what I belive to be the correct way of doing it (completing 3 - 6 a day) and get reported to head office for "being slow". Thanks for proving me right! Keep the vids coming they are a great help. 😊
I had the same at my old company when I was asked to do landlords on local housing. I was "slow" and found to many issues and upset the normal.
I worked on housing association housing contracts for my employer for ten years and we had 8 services per day booked. The external assessors who checked our work very rarely had any complaints. Doing 20 a day is a joke, a dangerous joke.
When your car is serviced lets hope they do all the manufacturers tests, inspections and replacements. That would keep your car off the road for at least 1/2 day and costs double. I am sure you would go back to them
@@MrBillmartin1 well, if it helps to noticeably prolong the life and reduce the repairs of my car, I would happily settle for a a bit more time and double the money! You just need to demonstrate that by a piss poor service you are actually paying more. If engineers just stopped charging such low prices, if they all settled for a minimum price then we'd all be better off.
As long as jokers who have worked in mc Donald’s can do the gas course if they have the money, then go onto just maintenance/ servicing, charging low rates . It screws us all , when someone can buy a cooker hose from BQ for £20 and fit their own how can experienced gas safe engineers charge enough !!!
Company I work for expect:- Fluke pen test. Visual inspection. Operate boiler. Fuse check. Safe isolation of electrics to appliance. Visual inspection inside appliance. Clean condensate trap. Clean filter. Check expansion vessel, drain and charge if needed. Fan pressure test and gasket seal check (if applicable). FGA test to MIs specs. Gas rate to MIs specs. Visual inspection of meter. FSD check. Check ventilation. Check stats & controls. Check hot water & heating working. Check flue integrity and entirety. Check flue terminal and PRV termination. Walk the system. CO alarm tested/in date. Check Cylinder/unvented (if applicable). Any other appliances visual inspection. Paperwork.
Enjoyed this video Derek, cheers! :)
Thanks Derek for your effort making these videos. They are helping me to improve my knowledge 👍👍👍
Thanks for all you hard work and humour, you always make me laugh.
Great stuff .thank you for doing all these videos ,they are extremely helpful and insightful..👍🏻
These videos helping lots of new engineers. thank you 🙏🏼
Best service vid I've seen. Thank you! Subbed👌👍
It’s really amazing Video , thanks Derek
Thanks Derek your video's confirm that I'm doing it right I'm baffled the tightness don't come in to it ive always carried out a tightness test
On a full strip down service I always re charge the vessel then every other year unless it’s a Worcester Greenstar then it’s every year rather that than change the prv 🤦♂️😂 great videos by the way 👌
Thats a awesome videos. The plug fuse you tested was for the other boiler 😂🤣
Good stuff.keep up the good work
Safe to touch test, yes. While working for a boiler manufacturer, I attended a boiler that another engineer (who himself was a senior engineer) had recently attended and got a shock off of the case. Yes obviously I hadn’t done safe to touch test and likely the senior engineer hadn’t either.
Always good practice to check expansion vessel even if it doesnt indicate a fault.
Hi
thank you for al the hard work you offer to help the people in the sectors , some time you have some mistakes , that's not effecting what you do but it's nice to check the videos before you posted it , in this one check the socket and the electric plug , it's not for the right boilers , even when you do the first test you should do that at the same electrical feed to the boiler , please accept my great respect .
Are you trying to say that on the double socket one side of it could be wired correctly and the other side not even though they are fed by the same wire.
Thanks for this once again i have a Potterton titanium that's just 3 years old and is serviced every year, but was wondering if there are any regular probs that show up on this particular boiler ,glad of any tips ,cheers and thanks again,its also nice to know that you have a lot of followers, that are doing what we know as a proper job,.
Excellent video
Great work👍🏽
Thanks for the video it's very useful
ideal logic dressed up as a ferroli.😂 you couldn't make it up 😁. Great video as always 👍👍👍
great information thanks much
Earth bonding is always a pain. Electricians regs are different to ours. I’ll always go for gas regs but I do wish it was universal for both trades. Great video again Derick, come back to watch a second time 👍
Who makes these regulations for electricity and gas ?
A lot of gas service engineers charge £80.00 for 10 minutes do a reading that's it .I expect at least 45 minutes minimum to do a proper service clean the jet's etc ,I earn £80.00 for a day's hard graft .
Top quality and top man
Full soport and full watch your content
Great video Derek ...its going to be push to complete two of these services a day ...I havent got any rushes left inside me..... 🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂👍🏻
Quality mate thanks for your efforts and sharing your experience with us .. thoroughly enjoyed your video
Brilliant video. The switched Unswitched conversation depends on the earthing arrangement. If its PME switched any other earthing arrangement its unswitched
One quick question. Don’t you need to clean the burner .and gas safe made me flue integrity test so that hole should be capped off. Looks like white cap missing
Hi Derick, Just a question as regards sealing on the inside, Ideal have said in the past that there own supplied internal flue cover/seal is ok provided exterior is sand & cemented + the weather seal is fitted, The only reason I know is because I had a flue going through a plaster board internal wall I could not seal with cement ect & actually had the Ideal tech guy attend my job as the boiler was faulty from installation ( Another story) I originally sealed the flue silicone but he made me remove it because he wanted an air gap ??? Where do we stand ? He said on a Timber framed house you only need an interior seal that’s supplied by them only. (It wasn’t a timber frame house )
Confused ?
I know what the regulations says, but I would always recommend showing due diligence, and do a tightness test.
Agreed. I've had ESV not working before and letbys its just good practise.
Absolutely... I've had ECVs letting by, unsupported pipework, cracked MIV joints and low pressure test points left open with the manufacturers plastic dust cap being the only thing preventing an escape of gas. For the few minutes it takes, you could save someone's life. Maybe a touch dramatic but I'm sure you see my point.😊
Do one at the same time as you check the safety control/ lockout.
You can do but then do re light and establish other appliances, can open up a can of worms
Morning, great videos... any video for serving communal boilers and pipework network please....
You are the best 🌹
Excellent video Derek, another brilliant explanation on how to service the boiler, every little experience from the professional helps us guys. Thanks. Derek just a quick question, will you be making a video on how to service an unvented cylinder, please if you can it will be mostly appreciated for your time and effort. 👍👍
It’s on the to do list 👍🏻
@@tomkatgastraining where do I get a seal kit?...and how many would I need to carry because there are thousands of boilers?
In regards to the flue being sealed, im sure MI's on most boilers state it only needs to be sealed to the fabric of the building inside or outside, dosnt have to be both sides
Inside now should be sealed with sand and cement or plaster and the outside can be the manufacturers weather seal if the MIs say you can. It’s all about stopping the flue from being pulled out from outside.
Great video again Derek, would be interesting to know what paperwork you leave after a service? I use the regin pads, because I use them I must do a tightness test because I'm ticking the box on the paperwork that says "satisfactory gas tightness test - yes/no
I have done it for landlords
Brilliant video totally agree 👍. Alot of engineers are out there doing absolutely nothing but a glorified gas check
i pump up the vessel every year.cos if we dont at some point through a certain year the vessel will fail.in my 34 years experience doing this saves many issues relating to the vessel failing as apposed to not touching it.
Great video, well done.
I always have a conversation with the owner/tenant and ask if they know of any issues with the boiler. I ask 1. heating working ok? 2. Hot water working ok. I press people pretty hard on this because I've had issues before where say the husband says no issues then the wife says, oh no darling remember a few weeks ago we had to press the reset button a few times. Its not that people are being shady, they just don't associate issues in the same way we do. So yeh ask plenty of questions.
Hi.
A question for you.
I've recently joined a new company whose "policy" it is on annual servicing to completely strip and clean EVERY year.
Does this override the MIs which, as you've mentioned aswell, state for some boilers may only need striped once every 5 years etc etc?
You should always follow the manufacturers instructions but your company policy is more thorough than MIs and in this case I would follow my company policy
checking the expantion vessel i always do, a tyre pressure gauge in service kit (small compact). ok it takes a little time to drain the boiler off to do the test but i see it as an essential test to keep that boiler working for the next 12 months. another thing i saw right at the start where you said you might have to replace the turret because the plug was missing? isnt it about time gas safe or us did something about that? forcing customers to pay and swap out a whole part is criminal in my eyes.
cant really see if you plugged that gap in your video the original plugs were white as i recall. doing a flue gas test with that open? probably not but the whole point is to test with out sripping the flue down right? ive had flue seals fail into the air usually if the boiler is on for long periods at a low flow temp they melt.
love all you guys who upload!!!
Nice video,
9:30, i shat myself when i turned on my combi boiler for the first time in 18 months, i was worried because it wasnt drained the insides and system would of rusted badly and clog and malfunction or something ,it seems 100% operational ,but i still booked for a check up on it before i continue using it
Thank you
Thanks Derek for your time and effort making these videos which are so helpful to many of us 🙏 also quick question, if you attend a service for first time would you charge extra for a service kit as and when if need replacing? Ie if failed fan test and do a full strip down and changing gasket? Thanks
Yes of course I would charge I always give 2 prices one for a service and one for full strip down that’s why it’s important to know what boiler you are going to
@@tomkatgastraining thanks
GSIUR 26 (9) checks on effectiveness of any flue, since it's a concentric flue the air intake forms part of the flue so should be tested? Some manufacturers, specify testing the air side as a flue integrity test, so if you're following MI's this should be done.
Do you test the PRV? I can understand why you wouldn't want to but it is a safety device and so again should be tested as per GSIUR 26(d)?
Tightness test:- if you have to do a heat rate but don't do a tightness your calc could be out because of an undetected leak?
Prv is water related and not gas so doesnt come under gas safe. Yes its in the appliance but 26.9 is relating to gas and not water. Hope that makes sense
You'd have one hell of a gas leak to affect a Gas Rate😊 But always do tightness test 👍
Thomas Bradwell
Thanks Derek
Clean condense trap?
Am I mistaken, the live is on the other side of the plug socket?
I always take the lid off the logics and flush with 3 litres of water and check the electrodes, that's what Ideal taught us to do on their course.
The logics are easy to service ,not like some of the Worcesters .
I like servicing these boilers and enjoy it .
The ones I've been servicing, you can't adjust the gas valve .
What do you think about the Ideal non adjustable gas valve ?
Boiler plus stat for combiboilers
Could you do a tutorial on controls and weather comp etc .
Hi TomKat! Do you think that in the years to come, most (Not all) of the current required servicing to Gas Boilers will be 'Designed Out'?
Or, like the Modern 'Infernal Combustion Engine' have a 'Plug In Test Point' to show any faults and give a 'Report'?
I think not but there will be the need for proof of service that’s what the benchmark app has been designed for
I noticed that this boiler does not have a magna filter some boilers do. My boiler has one.
It’s filmed in a gas training centre that’s why no filter
If you don't check and recharge expansion vessels especially on Worcester greenstars you run the risk of having to change the prv which is a total ball ache.
I think Reg 7.13 has been written incorrectly: 1st half states AR if YES (High Limit Stat) + NO (PRV); but the 2nd half instead of being the reverse states AR if NO (High Limit Stat) + NO (PRV) [should be No Stat + Yes PRV]?
I agree we noticed it when it was issued but it hasn’t been corrected yet
How long on average should it roughly take to service a combi boiler where there are no issues? I've just had Scottish Power in who came and left in under 12 minutes... obviously I'm thinking steps have been missed..thanks to anyone who can give me an answer
You should get them back in. 12 minutes is a total joke. I bet they didn’t even clean the condense trap. … I’ve seen someone do a boiler service in 6 minutes included paper work. That’s why cowboys do 20 a day.
Thanks this is should all engineers do ,
But unfortunately they don’t.
I caught a liberty gas Engineer who came and did service and cp12 in less than 15 minutes..
When I told her you haven’t done anything , I am a gas engineer and shame on you ,I complained to liberty gas the day after their manager and another engineer came and took them 48 minutes to do the checks.
That is in Leeds
Personally with testing the safety flame lockout I think you should always have your manometer on the inlet of the gas valve to test if the valve fully shuts when it goes into fault.
Yes and you do a let bye test on the gas valve.
I allways use ldf on a disturbed gas service valve too
I'm very interested in priority hot water system's,some people call them X plans . It's the way forward . .
Hi Derek I’m at college doing my gas but my placement fell through only got 50 hours now my dead line is 25 of April how much would it cost for me to put myself through a gas course got chance of an other placement
Do you mean how much is the manage learning program?
@@tomkatgastraining that’s what I’m doing just now at college but they can’t put an extension on it for me so I’m going to have to put myself through a training course and start again I think and am wondering how much I’d have to pay roughly I’ve done quite a bit at college thought we would have to June but they changed it to this April 25th the placement I was on have are only doing wet rooms now but I’ve got my heart set in being gas safe, by the way your CZcams videos have helped me so much with college work thanks for the time you put in to them
“ are we fitting them a brand new boiler, rads and pipe work on a service, why not , I would “
Maniac, how much do you charge for these fantastic services ?
I think maybe the condensate pipe is wrong. Does it slope over the section extending in the horizontal direction the wrong way? In which case the warranty would be void. I think Worcester Bosch require a minimum of 4 degrees fall away from the bolier so I assume ideal would be the same.
Why are you making this comment on what we do on a service
@@tomkatgastrainingbecause if you did the visual inspection, you’d have noticed the letters TOP on the pipe. 5:23 . @chapman9230 is 100% right.
@@pedrosmits did you notice the boiler is in a training centre and I am going through the procedure.
@@tomkatgastraining yeah, I did. I’ll keep in mind of your explanation, the next time I’m doing an exam.
I try and get the customer to turn on the boiler. I think we've all been stung with that "It was working before you touched it"
Thank you for the insight. I am newly qualified and would keep this in mind. Very valuable tip. 🙏
If you do that you make yourself very unlikeable from the start. You have to have customer management skills too
I want to go out for a pint with this guy
Is nobody going to mention “meter bracket”. Brilliant.
check flue if it goes into the loft . Brackets and put self tapping screws .
British Gas want 10 services per day in a 9 hour working window . Bet they doing full strip down and drop tests at meter 👍
Baxi Service engineers do not touch or clean circuit filter as they say that it’s not part of the boiler…
I always clean up the filters whilst carrying out the service…
They do if you have spear seal kit
This is great stuff and you obviously know your stuff, however as anyone who has British Gas to (service) their boiler will tell you they rarely remove anything and only do a flue reading. It is literally in and out in 10 mins, how is this right?
Not many years ago BG engineers were doing the same and a boiler model developed an internal leak which rotted the case and condemned the boiler..
@@peterburgess4637 but surely that can happen to anyone BG don’t do hardly anything on a boiler service it is literally 10 mins surely this isn’t right.
@@PNH63 i agree, fully, it can happen to anyone but if a service is carried out properly then a leak would be spotted and sorted thus saving the boiler.
I am not a gas man, however I do own a car, and if i took it for a service and they only checked the liquid levels, cleaned the windscreen and sneezed into the tyres there would be a lot of very poor condition cars out there. As a layman, at least now we appear to have regulations that stop scams by BG and others from carrying out superficial (and mostly useless) work and charging and arm and a leg for it. At least the minimalist service engineer and the meticulous service engineer will be playing on a level field. That has to be good for the general public.
@@jesserawson898 I agree but BG don’t do anything really in and out in 10 mins , a lot of items on check list aren’t even looked at yet ticked as ok
26.9 does not say you have to do inlet pressures. It says heat input and/or operating pressure. Operating pressure is not inlet pressure, it is what used to be called burner pressure. Irrelevant on a zero governor boiler.
It’s changed it’s all called operating pressure now it makes no difference if it’s inlet or burner pressure to cover 26 (9) also we go with the manufacturers test
@@tomkatgastraining when did it change to all being called operating pressure?
If that’s correct it’s ridiculously confusing. Working and burner pressure was perfectly clear. Changing burner to operating muddied the waters and now they’ve further confused things by calling it all operating??
@@tomkatgastraining so P1 and P2 are BOTH operating pressure? If that’s the case, that’s absurd.
No you still have burner pressure and inlet pressure and working pressure but they have put them all under operating pressure tests so even though they changed the group name the tests are still the same
Strip and clean logics every year (because MI’s say so) check vessel every year also
How many sumps you changed this year?😆
It's not that easy ,it needs an open end .
@@jamesrundle2956 more than I can count, my merchant says i by far order the most 😂
I ask customer how often they top up the pressure if 4 or more times a year then drain an check expansion vessel charge pressure 👍
Surely you can’t leave the boiler working because prv is capped off. How do you know expansion vessel is ok. No where for it to discharge if faulty .
Is a sweep test a requirement on a boiler service?
If you don’t want to leave a dangerous situation I would be . I lot of manufacturers put in their MIs now to test the combustion seals and doing a sweep test ticks that box
@@tomkatgastraining but from ideal themselves your allowed pocs to be leaking from burner. Up to 40CO ppm. Crazy when i heard it aswell lol
@@Purebeltersteve that’s not with the casing on. You can’t have more than 10ppm co off a gas appliance unless it’s a cooker in the first 20 minutes
@@tomkatgastraining i rung ideal and tech said when your doing sweep test around combustion /burner seal, your allowed up to 40 ppm. Why would i make that up lol. Thats with casing off. When casing on we know ideal go off british standards in regards to combustion. If any burner seal was leaking for me it would be ID and there are boys out there that only AR and letting customers keep it on putting risk on them. Ive been to 3 worcesters and flames were literally spitting out between electrodes. People dont use a mirror and sweep cause they arent educated enough.
Bet you didn't get that in writing from them though.
checking the expansion essel is a pain ,you have to have a open end .
Wouldn't you do a safe isolation test on the boiler before the service?
No because on a service you are not going into the electrical parts
@@tomkatgastraining I'll disagree on that as a number of gas training and assessment centres have this in their ACS training. Furthermore the companies I have worked for all want their engineers to carry out safe isolation on, inspections, service and repair jobs.
@@justsendmelocation5068 it’s not safe isolation it’s safe to touch test you need to do. Why would you be turning off the boiler and needing to test the boiler is isolated on a service.
@@tomkatgastraining cleaning the spark electrodes. So what is power supply to the electrode? Exactly my point, several training schools and gas safe, even when we get audited on work in progress they ask to carry out electrical checks even on landlord safety check.
@@justsendmelocation5068 if you are going into the electrical side you do safe isolation if not then why would you need to do safe isolation. On an annual service if cleaning the electrodes is needed you would again only need safe isolation if you are putting your hands into something that’s live. At tomkat we train safe isolation to our MLP trainees as it’s part of there course but we also train them when it’s necessary to carry out the test. Safe isolation is not in reassessment yet but in the training we talk about when it is necessary to carry out safe to touch and safe isolation.
You cant adjust the gas valve on on ideal boilers .
You cam spi over a boundery if you get written approval from the neighbour .This may change if there are new neighbours .
Is it normal or typical for the pressure to drop repeatedly on a combi gas boiler regularly serviced by British Gas engineers. Only once in a blue moon do they send an engineer that leaves the boiler NOT losing pressure. I wish I knew why this happens. I thought only engineers should be increasing the pressure, and only at the time of servicing. But not if you pay British Gas to send an engineer, sadly.
No, it's not normal. Your system has a fault.
I charge expansion vessell every year after the boiler is 3 years old
I’m curious, why would it need to be on a unswitched socket? 🤔
So you have to remove the plug so you are safe because the switch could only be single pole and not double pole so it won’t switch the live and neutral off.
@@tomkatgastraining ahh okay that makes sense, although I always thought they had to have switches so you couldn’t go poking around etc, house we moved in had all the sockets with no switches before I changed them all
@@MrLegend139 the earth connection opens the little gates on the live and natural sockets to stop you poking. That’s why the earth prong is longer than the other 2
@@tomkatgastraining yes I’ve seen that before but my only thought was that when I’ve plugged something into an surge protection extension lead at night when it’s dark I’ve seen blue flash as the plugs gone into it 🤔 hence why I’d always flick the switch off before plugging and unplugging.
i like how MOST search results on boilers on youtube is of the Ideal brand ,since mine is ideal too, maybe because that brand is mostly used fr social housing and part ownership ?
👍👍👍
You didn't LDF the gas isolation after disturbing it 😉
Not a problem if you're doing a tightness test at the end obviously
👍👍
Are all these engineers doing a tightness test on a service then checking all the other gas
Appliances connected to the gas supply after interrupting the gas?
Regulation 26 (9) says a tightness test is not required on a service also appendix 5 of the gas industry unsafe situations igem/g/11 says only need to check other appliances if they encounter them or let air into the gas supply
There are three possible scenarios:
1. There’s no gas leak;
2. There’s a leak and you don’t detect it;
3. There’s a leak and you do detect it.
The law requires a contractor to be competent. Scenario 2 is not an example of competence, so of course you have to do a tightness test.
🙏😊
Always do tightness test and check the expansion, takes 20 seconds to check expansion.
agree but 20 seconds? takes longer than that to drain the boiler.
20 seconds, your not doing it properly.
@@aquaman9164 still doing it with boiler pressurised 😂
👍🤓👍
Service that boiler? It wants Condemning!!
How much would you charge for a service, considering your gonna put all this right!!
✅👍🏻
Don't forget your volt sick has to test down to 50 volts boys and girls.
i dont agree that we have to tightness test.we turn off the boiler isolator if required to do our service.at no point do we break into the gas supply.
“Offering a service” is a contractual paradigm. It isn’t the same thing as servicing the boiler.
I clean the system filter ,but British gas don't.
,👍🏾
Jon-Paul Ward
I wouldn't beable to do all that for 50 quid .
That's all they want to pay .
Then they don’t have it done then customers shouldn’t dictate the price of our work but we know someone will always do half a job for less money. So we will be paying the customer for letting us service their boiler soon 🙄