HAVOC C2 - Demon Bypasses Windows 11 Defender

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Komentáře • 203

  • @C5pider
    @C5pider Před rokem +685

    Thank you so much for checking out the Havoc Framework !!!!

    • @angryman9333
      @angryman9333 Před rokem +20

      Appreciate the havoc, 5pider

    • @0maralakkad
      @0maralakkad Před rokem +18

      You are doing a great job MAN.

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +11

      @@0maralakkad Thanks ^^

    • @Jango1989
      @Jango1989 Před rokem +6

      Looks like a great start! I hope people in the community help you flesh it out more.

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +13

      @@Jango1989 I hope too. Thanks to John more people are going to check it out, report issues/bugs, request some cool features and maybe a few PRs here and there.

  • @emby3885
    @emby3885 Před rokem +10

    Whenever I look into some new topic you magically seem to make a video on it right after, nice!

  • @elisehackmann-tf6xg
    @elisehackmann-tf6xg Před rokem +6

    Damn i love the way you explore the new programs, how you navigate, how you research and how you do your trial and error. I love to see more!!

  • @Dani-cr7cj
    @Dani-cr7cj Před rokem +7

    Thank you John, appreciate your content 🙂

  • @ishanchoudhary4555
    @ishanchoudhary4555 Před rokem +6

    First video I have seen where the defender failed lmao. Crazy framework, cool video. Ty C5pider

  • @AndrewSherd
    @AndrewSherd Před rokem +35

    great video John! suggestion for the next video like this - keep Defender with default settings "on" to create a little challenge. Disabling almost all protection except basic RTP is not true bypass and like selecting "I'm too young to die" difficulty level :)

    • @OPCC2
      @OPCC2 Před rokem +1

      then you have to write a stager

    • @trustedsecurity6039
      @trustedsecurity6039 Před rokem +1

      @@OPCC2 you can do without a stager and it is even better to do without it. A loader yeah

  • @SkeeterPondRC
    @SkeeterPondRC Před rokem +2

    Awesome. Im going to test this in my environment... Maybe in one of my internal phishing campaigns (evil laugh)

  • @jjaybeeze6077
    @jjaybeeze6077 Před rokem

    totally awesome man!

  • @mahfoudhifatma6144
    @mahfoudhifatma6144 Před rokem

    Thank you john!

  • @hrajrhakobjan5258
    @hrajrhakobjan5258 Před rokem +18

    @23:28 Worth to note that Windows Defender is almost worthless without cloud protection turned on.. So is Malware bytes, BitDefender, Kaspersky, Sophos and most AV applications. Patching the OS does not automatically update Win Defender's IoC's and rule sets to detect malware or suspicious behaviour

    • @Snowwolfow
      @Snowwolfow Před 4 měsíci

      Kaspersky would Maybe block it

    • @hrajrhakobjan5258
      @hrajrhakobjan5258 Před 4 měsíci

      @@Snowwolfow That's why I use Kaspersky 👍 Best there is

  • @thefunnychannel647
    @thefunnychannel647 Před rokem

    Hi John
    Great video. Just to let you know that it's the team server in the image with the two systems.

  • @thebaldguy458
    @thebaldguy458 Před rokem

    I love this channel
    Great job 👍 👌

  • @adelettouati4820
    @adelettouati4820 Před rokem

    Thank you so much

  • @lordvoldemort7692
    @lordvoldemort7692 Před rokem +8

    Thanks for the content , now your getting close and close to the real malware world

  • @anounTT
    @anounTT Před 9 měsíci +2

    You should make a video going over your VM's. I am interested in how that is setup and how much space is typically required to have a VM setup like that.

  • @anthonyjirouschek
    @anthonyjirouschek Před rokem +10

    18 and creating this, this guys going places!

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +5

      lol

    • @bannanas117
      @bannanas117 Před rokem

      @@C5pider Nice GUI. I see similarities to Cobalt Strike. Always cool to see another c2 framework out there thats open source. Nice work man

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +2

      @@bannanas117 I really tried to make similar to Cobalt Strike since I wanted to avoid confusion. I didn't wanted people to learn a new UI and personally love Cobalt Strike

    • @swarooprajpurohit110
      @swarooprajpurohit110 Před rokem +1

      @@C5pider man you're amazing, I'm 22 and nowhere close to what you've done. I'm learning and thanks to guys like you who keep the FLOSS philosophy alive. I hope I can meet you someday. :)

    • @MaryOliveira-xi7cg
      @MaryOliveira-xi7cg Před rokem

      @@C5pider Why do my connections become unresponsive and I can't do anything with the connection?

  • @U3mi436
    @U3mi436 Před rokem +5

    Hi John, I really appreciate your content and it’s really fun to watch. Just curious have you tested this also with Defender for Endpoint if it still remains undetected? Best regards Tim

  • @saxa1
    @saxa1 Před rokem

    You earned my sub ;)

  • @kindwords80
    @kindwords80 Před rokem

    Really really wonderful. Wish i can be your student directly.

  • @ITSecurityLabs
    @ITSecurityLabs Před rokem +2

    I know what i am doing tonight! I will try to check some of the logs in security onion with wazuh and sysmon and see what we can add for detection

  • @0xtaffy652
    @0xtaffy652 Před rokem

    Going to definetly be setting this up in the lab to mess around with

  • @diegodejesus9668
    @diegodejesus9668 Před měsícem

    I find it impressive to see these types of tools so powerful, and then you see the description of the repository saying "made just for fun" lol

  • @CU.SpaceCowboy
    @CU.SpaceCowboy Před 4 měsíci

    the framework itself is always more important IMO than the client itself because most people are going to end up heavily modding it anyways to avoid getting signatured. for cs beacon ill rewrite the same function differently and add do random math operations or sleeps. if ur gnarly then change how it communicates to c2 maybe. great vid as usual brother 👍

  • @hoodietramp
    @hoodietramp Před rokem

    This really was a havoc🎸

  • @MygenteTV
    @MygenteTV Před rokem +1

    you are the reason im so into cyber security now thank you. bro can you please show us how you would maintain connection to a server once is hacked? I'm doing the oscp but they don't teach you that and I was asked this twice in job interviews.

    • @MrBigMoneyMan909
      @MrBigMoneyMan909 Před 10 měsíci +1

      Establish persistence by writing to the registry key HKLM\Software\\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run to start a service which launches the daemon for your post exploitation C2 server on boot. That ensures you maintain a connection to the server that survives a reboot. You can also do the same thing to survive being manually killed since the registry will just restart it in the background, you would just need to find out what key needs to be written to.

  • @teknixstuff
    @teknixstuff Před rokem

    12:10 Hashicorp makes terraform!

  • @infostreammining2160
    @infostreammining2160 Před 4 měsíci +1

    I'm a huge fan of your videos man. Only thing I don't understand is you show that it's a complete up-to-date machine and you have defender enabled, but you have many things disabled including tamper detection? Am I wrong or aren't most people trying to learn how to *get around* windows anti-virus. Either way you're the man. Just don't understand unless you expect everyone viewing to know you have to do way more to get through windows AV. ?

  • @johntoes1260
    @johntoes1260 Před rokem

    This is interesting no lie

  • @flobow8446
    @flobow8446 Před rokem +3

    You would need to fix the broken dependency causing apt to throw error, then the scripts will probably work. Maybe just a clean of apt would have done the trick :)

  • @Bloodzeus_
    @Bloodzeus_ Před rokem

    would have been interesting to see the VT results of that exe, see what other vendors block

  • @Rekalibrovka
    @Rekalibrovka Před rokem +2

    Hello sir! Thank you for great content! Please add a pop filter to your mic...

  • @tea_otomo
    @tea_otomo Před rokem +7

    22:18 tbf defender is waaaayyy worse without cloud protection.

  • @cirklare
    @cirklare Před rokem

    Basically he made his undetectable metasploit

  • @shahil1867
    @shahil1867 Před rokem +1

    15:44 Star platinum (JoJo reference)

  • @master_sam7227
    @master_sam7227 Před rokem

    Cool! Say pls, what laptot you use?

  • @gamesstatusglerygames6864

    It really works Im shocked

  • @romeliochirino2217
    @romeliochirino2217 Před rokem +1

    what do you use for screen recording?

  • @pppp9459
    @pppp9459 Před rokem

    John which laptop do you recommend for hacking?

  • @CQURB4
    @CQURB4 Před rokem +1

    John You need to update repository before installing programs. That easy fix

  • @RVTKZCE
    @RVTKZCE Před rokem +2

    Is that payload still would be undetected with cloud scanning feature on ? If no, what's the point of showing this ?

  • @googleisbad
    @googleisbad Před rokem +2

    Wow that looks amazing I wonder if windows 10 would catch it

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +1

      For now it doesn't since it never saw an implant like this.

    • @googleisbad
      @googleisbad Před rokem +2

      @@C5pider quick question about how u made this: do you have to master all programming languages used and also its great your replying to all these comments what a legend.

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +3

      @@googleisbad I do mater all programming languages. I just know C/C++ very well and golang

    • @dazai6861
      @dazai6861 Před rokem +2

      i tried it on win 10 seems not working unfortunately

  • @IndiTechNexus
    @IndiTechNexus Před rokem

    ha......
    John Hammond i am big fan for your video. i am see your video last 2 years. i am from India. john can create video from "how to use snyk and what is best scanner for find bug any web application

  • @icebice
    @icebice Před rokem +1

    Is it persistent? I noticed it hides in calc.exe in this case, what if the user would reboot :P?

  • @underscore.
    @underscore. Před rokem

    havoc framework reminds me of the xposed framework lol

  • @JerryMichaels7
    @JerryMichaels7 Před rokem

    It looks terraform like cuz it is! :)

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +1

      terraform is using the HCL parser which is written in go. Yaotl is a "fork" of HCL with some small modifications but its basically the same as terraform.

  • @likeastar20
    @likeastar20 Před rokem

    What is the MD5 of the exe?

  • @n-i-n-o
    @n-i-n-o Před rokem

    Why not with enabled cloud protection?

  • @JamiuKehinde-yn7uz
    @JamiuKehinde-yn7uz Před rokem

    Plz how can I get the cookies and keyloaggers section from the client ?

  • @MaryOliveira-xi7cg
    @MaryOliveira-xi7cg Před rokem

    Why do my connections become unresponsive and I can't do anything with the connection?

  • @PetritK10
    @PetritK10 Před rokem

    which C2 framework you use in your Job as Professional

  • @seancantwell12
    @seancantwell12 Před rokem

    Why yo hair look different?? What you do?? I like

  • @user-tt9lu5nw1p
    @user-tt9lu5nw1p Před rokem

    does this works on WAN? If yes, how to configure it?

  • @never_unsealed
    @never_unsealed Před rokem +5

    Windows Defender with cloud protection disabled is pretty useless. It won't even detect even basic malware techniques.

  • @novianindy887
    @novianindy887 Před rokem

    can you do meterpreter payload with that?

  • @Daniel2005D
    @Daniel2005D Před rokem

    Thanks 4 ur video, this C2 not working to attack Linux Machines.

  • @tigreonice2339
    @tigreonice2339 Před rokem

    Is the same on win 7 and win 8.1? Or they have better defense nowadays? XD

  • @Chris-zc9bp
    @Chris-zc9bp Před 11 měsíci

    I have same problem when trying to install golang on Kali

  • @raymondfinkle4257
    @raymondfinkle4257 Před rokem

    Damn John. You losing weight? Lookin' slim.

  • @captainkatz1775
    @captainkatz1775 Před rokem +2

    HANDS UP GIVE ME THE KNOWLEDGE 🔫

  • @rizkysays
    @rizkysays Před rokem

    How to bypass UAC Windows on victime machine with this C2?

  • @gtdt5666
    @gtdt5666 Před rokem +1

    Let's see what u got here:D

  • @NoONE-bk7ud
    @NoONE-bk7ud Před rokem

    hey john, i'm a cybersecurity student and i learned how to use NMAP then i scan my home network then i found my SmartTv {LG} send traffic to 1111 port known as "lmsocialserver" so i searched in internet and i found that this port used by a Trojan virus that open a backdoor is this a bad boy or it's ok ?

    • @obtuseguru7259
      @obtuseguru7259 Před rokem

      yeah you are fucked, the chinese now have all your browsing history and porn. i recommend wiping all data selling the tv and start using only public wifi.

    • @c1ph3rpunk
      @c1ph3rpunk Před rokem +1

      Devices use all sorts of ports for comms, there’s nothing governing what ports and app/device uses. As for the name, that’s not guaranteed either, if you’re using the “official” names then someone submitted to name it as “standard”.
      Is it bad? Who knows, it depends on what the device does, you’ll have to dig in and see what the traffic is doing and research it more.
      Smart devices do all manner of wild, wacky and stupid stuff, doesn’t make it “bad”. Could be for device discovery, remote control, telemetry gathering, who knows.

    • @NoONE-bk7ud
      @NoONE-bk7ud Před rokem

      @@c1ph3rpunk ty :)

  • @jebouijamel
    @jebouijamel Před rokem

    the whole tNice tutorialng but then you have a solid foundation.

  • @avnishprajapat2119
    @avnishprajapat2119 Před rokem

    Any videos on firewall and bypass methods?

  • @nilesh.mohekar
    @nilesh.mohekar Před rokem +1

    Did you have to have calc.exe running already in order to inject the code?

    • @ryanhoole4227
      @ryanhoole4227 Před rokem +1

      I am not getting the payload to run, assuming the same for you.

    • @ryanhoole4227
      @ryanhoole4227 Před rokem +2

      Oh... I forgot I am also on ARM lol...

  • @georgehammond867
    @georgehammond867 Před rokem

    this very dangerous framework

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem

      LMAO if you know how to use it

  • @kevinvandeford5562
    @kevinvandeford5562 Před rokem

    can I build this in Termux?

  • @teigeebean1257
    @teigeebean1257 Před rokem +1

    I have malware too. I'm isolated to a terminal without an operating system, but have full backdoor access to the attackers entire file system.

    • @smartsalmon1
      @smartsalmon1 Před rokem

      What do you mean?

    • @teigeebean1257
      @teigeebean1257 Před rokem

      I think it's an extension of chaos, and also takes advantage of a lower level process like ebpf for kernel communication. There's scripts for different archs (i386, x86_64, arm64) and a bunch of different operating systems. As well as lists of program signatures, and expired licenses that they've setup to bypass security checks etc.

    • @teigeebean1257
      @teigeebean1257 Před rokem

      @@smartsalmon1 I'm inside a virtual interface of the attackers 'recovery mode' on my system... They have compromised my entire network, but now can't tell the difference between my shell and one of theres. So I've been able to poke around discretely.

    • @smartsalmon1
      @smartsalmon1 Před rokem

      @@teigeebean1257 okay that's what I was confused on. And still am but it seems to just be beyond my knowledge base.

    • @amhokies
      @amhokies Před rokem +2

      I'm almost certain this is entirely nonsense. This person has been watching too many "hacker" movies.

  • @TuyenTran-qj9wg
    @TuyenTran-qj9wg Před rokem

    i cant install python 3.10
    it said that:
    E: Unable to locate package python3.10
    E: Couldn't find any package by glob 'python3.10'
    E: Unable to locate package python3.10-dev
    E: Couldn't find any package by glob 'python3.10-dev'
    what can i do now :((

  • @logiciananimal
    @logiciananimal Před rokem

    So, how much time until this is detected by Defender?

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem

      I give it a week or two. :P

  • @TimkaSR
    @TimkaSR Před rokem

    Now getting detected as of now

  • @GenevieveTibona
    @GenevieveTibona Před 3 měsíci +1

    Thank but now is not work

  • @dnx3222
    @dnx3222 Před rokem

    Legend hammond

  • @infinix_6586
    @infinix_6586 Před rokem

    IS THIS WORK OVER WAN...🤔

  • @uditsaini5550
    @uditsaini5550 Před 7 měsíci

    it is still undetactable 😂😂😂

  • @ompande1272
    @ompande1272 Před rokem

    Ay man

  • @shakeemdixon8107
    @shakeemdixon8107 Před rokem

    Its getting blocked by defender now

  • @sendlocation8476
    @sendlocation8476 Před 4 měsíci

    I’m new to all of this. Why does Linux and GitHub make it so nerdy to install something? Like you have to type so many commands? Why wouldn’t they just make a packet installer gui and just click and it install everything?
    Is this a Linux user thing where they make everything seem longer than expected? Sorry for my ignorance but someone like to make me understand…..

  • @RemainZStudio
    @RemainZStudio Před rokem +2

    o dear johm.. john ... john... we know that windows is not fully running security, if you turn on Application Guard which is part of defender its going to check the .exe file and also what source it comes from which in your case is "UP DOG" defender knows what you up to it will not allow the .exe to save and run it, hey i know this is your bread and butter but.... please do it in a correct configured enviroment or say at least " this is a home setup and not a enterprise setup " don't BS people.... we all know this will not run

  • @Sonyboj
    @Sonyboj Před rokem

    Defender is not fully on... it basically needs cloud protection and its also what is on by default. You are not testing real enviroment.

  • @jak365
    @jak365 Před rokem

  • @h4gg497
    @h4gg497 Před rokem

    You tried editing sources.list as a non root user bro.

  • @Landee
    @Landee Před rokem +2

    18 yo ...

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +1

      👀

    • @Landee
      @Landee Před rokem

      @@C5pider bro ur just insane 😳

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +1

      @@Landee Not insane just had to much time lol. Get bored really fast in school lmao.

    • @Landee
      @Landee Před rokem +1

      @@C5pider lmaooo

    • @cosmicrisis5699
      @cosmicrisis5699 Před rokem

      @@C5pider I’m curious when did you start learning? And what resources did you use cause it’s really impressive

  • @popeyehacks
    @popeyehacks Před rokem +2

    Heyyy John i have malware i don't know how to give that to u

    • @CQURB4
      @CQURB4 Před rokem

      Zip it with password infected and upload that to google drive and share that.

    • @cirklare
      @cirklare Před rokem

      I tried to do that and he didn't reply to my email

    • @stevenbryant1011
      @stevenbryant1011 Před rokem

      @@cirklare he's probably busy at the moment, I'm sure he has hundreds of requests/emails to get at

    • @castroonie
      @castroonie Před rokem

      @@CQURB4 would the email anti virus not get it?

    • @CQURB4
      @CQURB4 Před rokem

      @@castroonie zip it using password "infected". It won't be detected by drive

  • @sp3ct3r71
    @sp3ct3r71 Před rokem +1

    whats updog?

    • @kobki66
      @kobki66 Před 3 měsíci +1

      heey what's up my boy

    • @sp3ct3r71
      @sp3ct3r71 Před 3 měsíci

      @@kobki66 office reference in johns video .. here i am after 1 year..

  • @murtazaahmed8336
    @murtazaahmed8336 Před rokem +1

    For the love of God people don't upload these payloads to Virus total like please don't, these undetectable payloads don't come by everyday and take a good while to develop don't let the creators work go to waste

    • @guccixlouisvuittonsmartfridge
      @guccixlouisvuittonsmartfridge Před rokem

      too late 😹😹😹 im not tryin to get ratted

    • @HyBlock
      @HyBlock Před rokem +1

      these open source frameworks aren't supposed to be fully undetected forever, it's impossible since they are PUBLIC, you are asking for the impossible, plus they've not supposed to be used for illegal actions, don't be skids

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +4

      Before I published Havoc I uploaded some samples to VT to help AV/EDRs vendors to detect my implants. Havoc isn't designed to evade. It is designed to be malleable and modular enough so operators with enough knowledge can bypass AV/EDRs. ☺️

    • @damuffinman6895
      @damuffinman6895 Před rokem

      If you don't like it, take the time to learn to learn to make your own payloads.

  • @gooniesfan7911
    @gooniesfan7911 Před rokem +1

    I had scanned the agent on virustotal now just incase some AV didnt detect it ! Doing my part to make security tools better

  • @CenterZero_DeadSecurity

    I can't resize the edit listener window 😭

  • @AndreiChrisso
    @AndreiChrisso Před rokem

    Hi nerd =))))

  • @lfcbpro
    @lfcbpro Před rokem

    please fix the right channel high end squeak ???

  • @girl4632
    @girl4632 Před rokem

    Is there any WhatsApp group of cybersecurity professionals, practitioner,hacker kind of where could discuss.

  • @ATechGuy-mp6hn
    @ATechGuy-mp6hn Před rokem +1

    Windows defender is almost useless without cloud turned on if I remembered correctly

  • @VECTORY_
    @VECTORY_ Před rokem

    can i send you a virus i desperly tried to erase from my computer? its still on despite the many Factory resets my pc did go trough, it activates itself 1 time in 3 months and a simple reset to the last day solves it. but its still anoying, can i send it to you and you maybe figure out how i can be free from this thing?
    Information:
    (i think) a simple user control that always jumps to the first thing and locks onto it,
    like the desktop it locks the first file and you cant click anything else than that file,
    450MB~
    a single windows executable (exe)
    got it from trying to download a game, now trapped the file in my USB-Stick.
    would be nice if you would help/answer
    -Fellow beginning Hacker

    • @VECTORY_
      @VECTORY_ Před rokem

      i dont have whatsapp

    • @minefox6071
      @minefox6071 Před rokem

      @@VECTORY_ well you just replied to a scummy bot

    • @affieuk
      @affieuk Před rokem

      @@VECTORY_ That's a bot / scam, don't respond.

    • @VECTORY_
      @VECTORY_ Před rokem

      @@affieuk i dont have a phone either, so i cant

  • @navjotsingh5108
    @navjotsingh5108 Před rokem

    does anyone know where i can get the pirated version of soft soft

  • @scott32714keiser
    @scott32714keiser Před rokem

    Why does windows not have any good virus proofing yet Linux got toram good luck infecting a operating that runs on a rom. I wish I can get windows on a rom with toram while storing files on internal drive so the internal drive can fail and I only loose my files not the operating system and to remove a virus all you need to do is wipe or replace the drive. Windows don't support roms even if you can get it on there correctly it needs to write to the drive just to boot. So windows gets a virus and your os you paid for is useless windows sucks. There's very few things I can't do on Linux that I can do on windows

    • @lordvoldemort7692
      @lordvoldemort7692 Před rokem

      Linux is good , but most softwares on windows . so best solution to buy a pro anti malware

    • @user-mc8xt1iq7c
      @user-mc8xt1iq7c Před 11 měsíci

      anti malware is a scam an and name one thing window has that matters that isnt avalabe on linux
      @@lordvoldemort7692

  • @nnawaff
    @nnawaff Před rokem

    i just hate apt it's pure trash

  • @hamzarashid7579
    @hamzarashid7579 Před rokem

    Hey john I recommended using Nala. Nala is a front-end for libapt-pkg. It`s most of the time fix these kind a errors.
    Search: Nala GitLab

  • @rageauto1291
    @rageauto1291 Před rokem

    Shift + F10
    Regedit
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/Setup
    New key
    LabConfig
    New DWord 32 bit
    BypassRAMCheck (1)
    BypassTPMCheck (1)
    BypassSecureBootCheck(1)
    BypassCPUCheck(1)
    It works fine on a laptop from 2011. None of that other stuff seems to be needed. Laptop does run warmer so keep an eye on thermal limits. This is because processors are working harder to keep up but system is faster.
    However, Win 11 seems to have a big problem. Most need to be online to sign in. If you didnt set a local user and you dont have internet you are screwd and cant log into your pc. I was locked out for like 2 hours and starting thinking id have to format and reinstall windows. Luckily the router was the problem not the PC. The ol off and on trick fixed it. Should someome find a way to ransomware that you would have a very bad day. You wouldnt even need to do a lot if work. Windows does all the hard work for the attacker. Something like a script or app that could refreshes wifi repeatedly or switches it off as you switch it on on startup would do the trick. I have a very bad feeling about win 11 so much so that i have my win10 on standby ready to roll if 11 goes crazy. Its nice but i have concerns. Im stil useing it to get a proper feel for the system and give it a good try but its been off to a very bad start.
    .

  • @jawadsher7666
    @jawadsher7666 Před rokem

    @Spider @johnhammond
    what types of hacker make and build these payload and frameworks
    these types of people are a computer scientists.
    i dont how they explore and make the exploit for it.
    100000000000% Appreciated

    • @C5pider
      @C5pider Před rokem +3

      People who develop projects are called Developers with Red Team knowledge that's it.