Range, efficiency, charging comparison: Standard Range LFP v pre Heat Pump Long Range Tesla Model 3
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- čas přidán 20. 01. 2024
- In this video we drive 2 cars in convoy on the same roads and the same time at the same speeds to compare real-world range in matching conditions (the only real way to get a true comparison!)
Tesla Model 3 Standard Range post 2021 refresh LFP heat pump
V
2019 Model 3 Long Range (no heat pump) and on the 19” sport wheels with continental tyres.
The LFP like a 100% charge so will start from that. The Long Range from daily recommended which is 90%
Both cars leave at the same time. Stop over night for the same time, then continue the journey at the same time, in convoy side by side at the same speed in the same conditions.
We can see the the difference in efficiency, the real range capabilities and then also the recharging speed side by side at Tesla Superchargers.
Some very interesting results I think.
If you want to see pre heat pump and post head pump long ranges side by side, try this video: • Heat Pump difference…?...
Thanks for watching
Richard Symons
R Symons LTD "RSEV"
EV Specialist based in New Milton, Hampshire on the South Coast near Southampton and Bournemouth
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Very interesting comparison, looking forward to the 100k+ M3P too to see how that's been fairing!
Coming soon!
On the day of a long drive theres no need to charge only to 90%. That is, as Richard said, the daily recommended. Not an issue for one-offs.
That was very interesting indeed. Seeing as both cars filled their batteries at impressively similar percentage rates, it makes me think that Tesla might artificially limit the charging speed of the Standard Range with its LFP battery, so that the Long Range [NMC battery] appears to have no disadvantage in charging. There is no one best battery yet. The LFP does have the advantage that you can sort of abuse it [100% charging, doesn't care what charge state it is in really], but it works less well in the cold, compared to an Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt [4%] battery, and it's heavier per kWh. But, you have to look after your NMC battery a little bit. Hmm. Still, both are bloody good.
Another great video Richard, keep them coming. Love them
Thanks 👍
Another great one!, thanks for this Richard and team
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video from the guys there Richard. Brilliant to test the equivalent priced used Tesla Model 3’s. One simple question what were the odometer mileages on the two cars. I’m guessing the 2019 LR had quite a few more than the 2022 SR +? Thanks and keep up the great work:)
That BJ69 reg made me laugh on the white model 3
Great video.. I have the 3 standard range 2023.. I love it!
Always interesting but not up to the usual standard in terms of real world like for like. Biggest take away for me is 'cold damages efficiency all round'. Thanks for posting and keep them coming along.
Great job and it just shows how the technology is advancing in thhe cars, for the standard range to be far more efficient.
"Excellent video from RSEV......good to see new faces taking a major part......really looking forward to the Tesla 100,000 mile test😃👋📽".....My names Ian.
Nice video from the chaps. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
My old 2018 performance still gets 4 miles per kWh in California. just throwing that in there.
Bring it over to a British winter and see how it goes
Great video and nice to see some new faces centre-stage. The 2022 RWD also has the upgraded AMD Ryzen processor as opposed to the slower Intel Atom on the earlier cars which makes a big difference to the infotainment system.
Wow,the new model 3 highland SR is gonna be the efficiency king,nice one chaps 👍😉💪
That's as maybe, but it hasn't convinced me that it's actually better than my current 2022 M3LR. In a couple of yrs I have to decide where to go when my lease ends, and so far, it will not be to a Highland M3, that's pretty much for sure. But that's me, everyone makes their own choices, that's the point, isn't it!
Perfect timing with this video, I’m looking to get a 21 model 3 sr in the few months once my current 2020 LR lease ends.
You might miss the audio, power and grip from the LR?
@@FollowMeAround4 maybe but I'm more looking forward to heated steering wheel, powered boot, LFP battery and better efficiency.
Really good video. I enjoyed that. When i bought my first Tesla i was convinced that i needed the LR model. As I've got confidence in that I've wondered more and more whether i would go for the SR next time just for the extra efficiency. I think you have just convinced me there are no downsides for me with getting the SR and there are plenty of upsides.
I did the same. Im confident to go with an SR now even though I do regular long journeys.
I’m in the same boat, the only thing putting me off going for a standard range is the sound system
Don’t know why Tesla, don’t at least option the better Soundsystem for the standard range as I believe the model Y standard range comes with the subwoofer et cetera …
Cheers guys
That's impressive! Any chance you could add charging curves for both cars?
It would be very interesting to see a 2022 RWD vs 2022 LR comparison. Also, it sucks that an RWD lucks a subwoofer, are there any alternatives?
Excellent video! I've been tempted to "upgrade" my 2022 LFP standard range M3 for a long range, though keep coming back to the amazing effiency of the LFP battery combined with a single RWD motor - in the summer I regularly get well over 5 miles per Kwh and overall in just under 30k miles over the past 22 months have averaged, rain and shine, 4.4 miles per kwh including alot of motorway winter driving. I just wish you could option the premium sound system on the standard range car - that would be an ideal combo for me!
Love my LR RWD, saw 400 miles driving around Wales in August…….driving normally. RWD balance and efficiency with the LR battery……for the win!
Google it... believe there is some way to have it at least partially with some harnesses.
Hundred percent agree with this I wish I could’ve had a subwoofer on my standard range. as others have said you can buy an install aftermarket harness to enable a couple of the front speakers, but my neighbour did this and said he could hear almost no difference so I didn’t bother. I see also on the Tesla website. They are selling big battery rear wheel drive model threes as well though the range does not seem to be hardly any different to the all wheel drive but the car is much cheaper to buy.
@@ouethojlkjn when range testing there isn’t much difference, in real world there is. Reason being that front motor in dual motor range testing is barely activated so the difference comes from the benefit in weight saving of RWD LR. In real world driving obviously the front motor is used more and you’ll see less mi/kWh in the dual motor compared to RWD LR. IMO.
Hey, great videos! I’m wondering, can you turn the back seatbelt chime off in ‘car seat mode’ in the UK?! I think not but no one confirms this!
I bought an American M3 performance from RSev's. Frankly energy use to warm up and range difference here isn't a concern for me. Its far cheaper than my old ICE, there are chargers everywhere and I like to be able to rip around if I want to. Stop sweating the differences and enjoy the car. Great video for hyper milers
Very interesting. Currently looking at 2nd hand M3s and unsure whether to go for pre 21 Long range (without heat pump) or newer (with heat pump) standard range..... they seem around the same sort of price.
The results are a bit flawed due to the initial preconditioning. The Long Range will use both of its stators to heat up the battery (and therefore, it will consume more energy). That's why you get worse efficiency if you navigate to a Supercharger since the battery preconditioning will use more energy to charge faster. Still a good test though :)
Also, the tire differences will affect efficiency greatly: 18 inch with aero covers vs 19 inch non aero on the 2019 LR :)
Not sure if you’ve done this but can you compare the model S pre heat pump and heat pump?
Interesting as I have a model 3 long range with boost and it never drops to those numbers? Mine is lowered by Motech which must help but no aero covers, aftermarket. UK by the way and using every week for 200 miles a trip. Overnight in -6c drops 1% in 10 hours too with sentry off which I didn't think too bad
Would love to see an overall life cost analysis having run them side by side for 5k miles with home charging as main supply and detail how much it costs including electric rates at time of charge to see if the saving on electricity would make buying a much more expensive newer vehicle the more overall economic option
havent been to lifton laterl they have new additional chargers
Very good! Makes the SR seem like a really good buy.
Just need more Superchargers in the UK!
The 19 inches are killing it. We know that from every test.
@@jeanbaptistelabelle With extra weight and rolling resistance. EV world problems
My wife bought a new 2023 RWD at the end of December 2022.
So a full 12 months old.
Her has done 16,000 miles, at an average of 223 wh/mile.
Come hail snow and sun.
Efficient beyond belief.
Great video, we have a Model Y 23 plate RWD and I am looking at getting a used Model 3 to replace our diesel car. I would have liked the extra omph from the Long Range, but the SR+ with heat pump makes more sense for us with no compromise on range/charging.
The long range versions do have better audio, charge a bit qiucker in general.
@@samdeb6506 That is true, although the faster charging speed for me is offset by not having to put so many kWh back in. It is rare that I am ready to continue a journey before the car is. I ended up with a 70 plate early refreshed model with 19000 miles on it for £21k, which I am very happy with, although I do miss the upgraded audio more than I thought I would :)
It would be interesting to do the same test between std range Lfp vs the LR Rwd version. How about it?
How do you turn off the pre conditioning when the Sat nav is taking you too the Tesla supercharger
rear motor cant generate as much heat as a dual motor as I think generate the heat from the motor. Really interesting video, i think LFP for me
4:43 silly billy 😆
How does the optional power boost feature work on Teslas? Does it just change the software algorithm to allow it to draw more current from the battery or something?
Yes
I have a 2021 SR+ on 19” sport wheels, my average consumption since purchase has been 241 Wh/mIle according to my display, I have had the same preconditioning use on a long journey which i always think is odd driving from Swansea to London to arrive at a supercharger in London I don’t think it needs to precondition so early in the journey. I have been doing some journeys on very hilly terrain in very cold weather recently and i have seen a number of journeys with well over 300 Wh/Mile leaving me with a range of about 200 miles. Still very impressed with the SR+
The second I sold my Fremont produced 2019 SR+ I got sellers regret. The model Y all wheel drive that replaced it is fantastic, but I just think my original car was so much more efficient… and well I don’t know maybe better value even without the subwoofer😵💫
Does anyone know if having heating set to auto (with ac on) in winter improves or decreases efficiency?
They are £20K, 3 years old in UK. Will be my next car❤❤❤
There is an assumption you want to charge as fast as possible. If you are having lunch for example and have a bit more time, it would be nice to opt out of pre-conditioning. Plus you would actually save energy(possibly)
Nice video. I’d have still charged the LR to 100% knowing I was going on a road trip……but understand some people don’t’ know they’re going to be doing a longer run and would have taken it to 90% (shouldn’t that be 80% though?). The thing that I would criticise though is turning pre-conditioning on and off rather than just letting the car manage it. For those dipping their toes into EV ownership for the first time that’s way too techie and confusing. I loved the video though, been doing EVs since 2012 and the numbers are important to me and the level of detail.
13:30, remember this is only for winter results. In the summer (+15°C) heat pump doesn't matter. So in summer LR will be better compared to SR.
This is interesting I will have the choice of 2020 m3 lr with 100k or a standard range MY with 30 to 40k when my company car goes back next september
What is the weight difference?
Interesting test guys, would you consider running this test again. But charging both cars to 100% then running until empty on the same day in one run? As mentioned by a few others be interesting to know how much difference it makes with the battery heating in the morning as it was left overnight. I guess the long range would still be less efficient but maybe by not as much? Also do you think its generally less efficient as its powering two motors rather than one? Ive always thought that would make way more of a difference than a heat pump would make. Cheers guys
I have the 2023 RWD model with the heat pump. It's very good even in cold thanks to the heat pump. This last couple of weeks is the first time i've heard the heat pump actually kick in. It doesn't seem to need it until temps get below about 5 degrees C in my case. WHen it does kick in the car gets hot mega fast. I drove to work the other day in -5'C temps and forgot to pre warm the car. The ice had melted within a minute and the car was toasty warm before I got a mile away from the house.
One of the motors is only mainly used at low speeds for acceleration. Past that, they both use the same one motor.
You can see that the range of a long range rear wheel drive and a long range. All wheel drive is hardly any different. so whatever benefit you get with one less motor is even doubt by the efficiencies you can get having two. I believe the front motor is used primarily for acceleration and also engaged for motorway cruising apart from that it’s all the rear motor
@@ouethojlkjn I think the main differences in efficiency probably come from weight. My RWD with the smaller 60kw battery is about 300kg lighter.
Good to know! I've got a 2019 Model 3 Long range, It has no heat pump and the older battery chemistry I believe. Says to charge to 80%. But even when we've had recent temperatures (-8 lowest) generally get around what the system predicts real world. On a full charge mine says 294 miles on computer. Has 23k miles. Still on original tyres and everything in car original.@@DLcine
mmmm feel like it would have made more sense to compare SR+ to SR+ because the efficiency with that LFP Heatpump seems about what I get with my 2020 SR+ model 3 (+maybe 20wh/mi) once it's battery is nice and happy. I also have sport rims on my model 3. I feel like the extra motor and weight from bigger battery are hindering the long range more than the heat pump.
We were delivering that SR to the customer and the grey one is our own one so it was an opportunity to film a test like this. We don't always have all the models available.
@powersurge6878 perfectly fair point. It's still a good video.
the cost difference or cost per mile..
the big difference is power used a mile more to a kW is a massive thing with cost of electricity is at some chargers
Very Interesting - one of the reasons why I opted for the highland M3 SR - I suspect that the LFP batteries cannot hit 250kW charging, not that they need to be - given what you have shown.
It’s a known fact that they peak around 170kW charging.
Hello Richard, you may not stock old Teslas, but it would be great to have an idea about the battery degradation and how it affects charge speeds and range, perhaps in a future video. Thanks.
His name is Richard Symons.
@@chriswilson263 Thanks for correcting me!
Will be filming tomorrow a 2015 s85d. Quite low mileage and excellent battery health.
Also about to test and film the performance model
I have a late 2020 (2021 model year) Model 3 long range. Battery capacity dropped around 8% over the first 20k kilometres but has remained at that level since (now almost 70k kilometres driven).
@@dyemanoz Thanks! I really do want to hear more stories like this. EVs just seem perfect for my everyday use. Just need to shake off these lingering doubts.
Moral of this perhaps is don't bother preconditioning to charge and spend a few extra minutes charging, but save yourself a lot of battery.
That would be a worthwhile video 👌
Yes, pre-conditioning is there as much for Tesla to keep stalls free for others as it is for owners. If you’re not time constrained I wouldn’t bother wasting a couple of £ on preconditioning…….save it for drinks and food! Lol
totally agree except in hostile situations - if really cold weather and really cold battery.. in that case better to try to pre condition battery even to get charge...
Also don’t forget when comparing the vehicles that the LR has some additional features such as better audio system (more speakers, subwoofer etc), heated rear seats?
The 2022/3 RWD also have the rear heated seats/heated steering wheel. The only difference on the LR is the ambient lighting and the upgraded audio.
That wasn't the point of this video though.
@@powersurge6878 no but the to cars are priced ISH the same, so if your thinking of getting one then some people may go for LR based on power and audio. If the price was different then you would be correct.
I've a 22 SR+ and averaged 4.3 m/kwh over 20500 miles.
Noticed like most Tesla drivers you spend more time looking at the screen than the road.
How do you know what most Tesla drivers do?🤔
😍😍
Hi Richard, as you know well, Tesla dual motor cars are not AWD/4WD. As they have one high efficiency permanent magnet motor and one low efficiency synchronous motor, only one motor is driven unless a specific condition occurs. So, the synchronous motor is only driven when performing preconditioning - this generates heat to heat the batteries, when going over 150 mph and when the non-driven wheels lose traction. So, during benign conditions, like this test, the front wheels of a Model 3 would only be driven when preconditioning is turned on. That is, the test you performed was essentially with two RWD cars. This fact is clearly demonstrated in Tesla Bjorn video is snowy conditions where the scan tool shows ZERO power to the front motor most of the time. I like it where he says the Jag I-Pace is the better car!
So, one car had a bigger battery, had more weight to overcome, thus used more power - simple physics.
czcams.com/video/UPxF-ih61Q8/video.html
Is the efficiency improvement of the SR due to the heat pump, LFP or both? As they came along separately, wondering how much each upgrade impacts efficiency and thinking efficiency more than range, as that impacts charge costs.
The standard range has a heat pump, only one drive motor and a smaller battery. Also 18 inch wheels probably with aero covers. Thus the SR car is much lighter than the long range car plus all of the above.
@@kmf2153all of those will obviously improve efficiency, but just wondering if it's the heat pump or the LFP battery that makes the biggest difference. The heat pump came before LFP, so is it therefore worth the heat pump alone or does the bigger improvement cover with LFP?
@@hooksforestchin I would suspect that the heat pump makes the largest difference. But since there is no data to support that claim in this video, whatever I say is just my opinion. I have never heard anyone saying that the LFP battery is more efficient than the LI battery.
I have a 2023 RWD with the heat pump and found my average range is around 200, however that's lots of short journeys and the aircon on constantly. Will be interesting to see what is does on one long trip.
That sounds like a heavy right foot!
@@ianjames3078 you might be right there, the instant tourque is so addictive. However, my efficiency on longer trips once the battery is warmed is generally around 250 wh/mile, however my work commute it generally hits over 340 so I think its more the short cold journeys that are to blame. Will be interesting to see how I do in the summer.
@@shorey66pre condition of Aircon. before leaving connected to charger will improve overall efficiency as the heat pump just has to maintain temperature... much lower consumption than the initial 5/15 minutes when it really boosts all the power to get warm...makes sense?
@@freddykrueger79 I don't find having the Aircon on or off makes much of a difference to be honest. I did two months with it on all the time and two months with it off completely and it made very little difference. I don't leave the car plugged in every night as I can't be bothered and I never know when I'm going to be leaving as I'm in call must if the time.
I think my issue is down to the battery trying to get up to temp when it's cold so plugging in would help I just value the convenience so take a small hit on range.
One summer here in the UK while driving like a monk with his right foot missing. I managed an amazing 169 W per mile. I wasn’t holding up traffic either! (M3 sr+ 2019)
Does pre-conditioning just make charging quicker? Or are there other benefits?
That's it really - but can make a massive difference to journey time when it's really cold, which has a knock on effect to the availability of chargers. See the "horror" stories from the US in the last week. Pre-heating would solve almost all the issues at charging stations, at a slight cost to efficiency.
Does this indicate we still have a way to go for battery efficiency (in general I.E all cars improving) and soon at a stage where range anxiety can be ignored, or at least not a reason not to buy?
Many of us EV owners don't have range anxiety, we can have charging anxiety meaning will there be queues during holidays and weekends?
These cars demonstrate that "range anxiety" is already *not* a problem.
Just wondering where is the pre-conditioning off button is ..??
There isn't. Just put a pin next to Supercharger and navigate to it instead and the actual Supercharger
@@powersurge6878 cheers mate 👍
Its illegal to use a hand held mobile phone, but it seems OK to spend a lot of time looking at screens and playing with menus. I'm not referring to the 'walkie talkie'.
Hey guys, pls also convert to km and kwh/100km
pls in km
They wont "limit" charge rate.
.
Logically.... If you have a material with less energy density (per kg/ litre) it accepts less energy, so *charges* at a slower rate, it will also have less ability to *discharge* at highest rates, which would also limit ultimate performance, probably one reason it's used for the single motor cars.
.
As Richard said, there's no reason you can't charge the Nickel based oacks to 100%, just dont *leave* them "soaking" for hours.
The LR battery is also used in the LR RWD (single motor). Interesting thinking though, I wonder if because the LR battery is limited to discharging based on the single motor whether its battery health over time might be different to LR batteries in dual motor cars.
The LR should’ve charged to 100% as well as it’s not just normal daily driving , it’s a longer road trip so falls into the ability to charge to 100%, especially if your using it straight away and it’s not sitting with a full charge for days.
It was charged the day before so to sit overnight +90% not ideal. Normally would tbh but it’s irrelevant anyway. Will still use the same % for the trip so it matters not. I did make clear that it does still have that extra bit if needed!
When you use scan my Tesla, you can actually see what the car is doing, somtimes the car says it is preconditioning the battery when it actually isn't ! From everything I have seen, just let the car handle the preconditioning.
Fans of Tesla model s 👇
I do love my Model S think the FREE FREE access to Tesla superchargers does help alot with my love.
My 35k 2020 M3P has been horrendous recently with efficiency at about 400 wh/mi, but then again so have all cars however they're powered. Bad weather = rubbish vehicle efficency.
Can tesla make me an 85kwh lfp battery and make a LONG long range rwd model 3, pretty please ❤
There is a long range rwd although in the uk it’s a rare beast
Maybe it's the age of the car, 340wh/mi is worrying on that long range. Are the brakes stuck on??!
Low temperature, 19" sport wheels, wind from the front and no heat pump. Quite normal to be honest
2 motors vs. 1 ....apple and oranges 🎉
Problem with LFP at tesla is the need to constantly charge to 100% or the BMS goes kaput and doesn't know what the hell charge is in the battery.
No.
An occasional "balance" (100- near zero) recalibrates.
@@rogerstarkey5390
Agree but you don’t need to go near zero. Just to 100 once a week or more for the BMS.
LR old v LR new??
czcams.com/video/RdVqqvWQMl8/video.htmlsi=tIvv3PxUJMDLXwpS
So in short.... heat pumps are important.
the diffference in efficiency is proabably the heat pump-
Heat pump, wheels, tyres, better thermal insulation ☑️
340 Wh/mi is pretty poor from that LR. My Model Y LR does a lot better than that even in terrible weather! I would say on my usual mix of driving I'm around 250wh/mi summer, 280 wh/mi winter
On my 2nd Tesla now since 2019 and do 20k miles a year…. I have only public charged around 5 times in all these years though. Home charging costs me 7.5p per kw and I can ‘refill’ the car in that 4 hour window, just. It has saved a lot of money compared to petrol, I like the way it drives (in real world, without doubt the fastest point to point car I’ve had) and love the heating option in winter so the car is fully defrosted and toasty warm in winter and nice and cool in the Summer before I get in it. It is my company car and I only bought it because of the tax perks and govt incentives at the time. Saying all of this, I wouldn’t buy any EV personally and my car is worth less than half now in under 2 years. Once I can get out of it without taking too much of a hit (if any dealer actually wants to buy a used EV), I’m not bothering with the company car and going back to petrol. I’m just bored of Tesla now and while they do some clever things, they fail on a lot of the basic stuff. Govt grants, no road tax and the free charging places you used to get are all gone now.
Hello guys
I'm back just had Tea
Using a mobile phone while driving 🤔
Only handheld was a 2 way radio which is allowed
Too bad the test wasn't all that good as the navigation to the Supercharger was messed with on the LFP. It's not a fair comparison. The long range literally charged more than 50% faster so easily travels far better.
We both stopped the preconditioning at the same time and turned it back on 60 miles before the Supercharger. They are different cars but the point of this video is to show how they compare, not which is best.
Re preconditioning: Why not just leave the car to do its thing? Elon and his engineers are way smarter than me.!
Well that was cherry picked test.
The heatpump car uses the heatpump to heat up the car from cold - the battery from cold to driving temperature AND to heat for supercharging.
For the subsequent stints all that PTC heating will not be needed for the LR awd and efficiency rise dramatically.
Try a 1000 km drive and the Long Range will smash the SR.
(But nice staged teat).
And before anyone call a prejudice card - yes I do own a 2019 LR awd but I also own a 2024 Model Y rwd. with the LFP battery so I would have loved for you to be right.
@@renebergqvist599
If there's one channel that goes out of their way to run a fair test, it's this one.
(Should also mention Bjørn)
@@renebergqvist599Do you find any improvement in cabin noise between the two cars - contemplating replacing my Eniro with a rwd Y, had one on test lately & thought cabin noise no better than the Niro but I did love the driving position
@@renebergqvist599also how do you find the rwd in frosty conditions?
But how often do you do a 1000km drive? This seems much more real-world.
Comparing a single motor to a dual motor ..why?.. Would have been much better video comparing 2022 rwd to a 2019 sr+ this video alone has made my decision to unscribe form this channel
After watching some of our videos you still don't realise that we do these around our work? It's not like we have any car at our disposal. 👋
@@powersurge6878 after watching past videos I guess we got spoilt for quality content.. this last one wasn't and kudos for making content around work. Maybe just dropping this video would do the channel more justice than not