Revenge of the Sith Author Matthew Stover Interview - Rule of Two
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2021
- Please welcome the author of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, Shatterpoint, Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor, God of War and more on Rule of Two!
Joining me is Marc Fernandez...always two there are...no more...no less...
RISE
Continue the discussion on Star Wars Theory forums - starwarstheory.com/THEORY/posts - Zábava
"I don't like criticizing things because every movie is someones favorite" Holy Shit I love this guy. Personally agreed with everything he said!
And I think it's stupid. Why is it something "unlikable" to criticize things if I think they are bad - even if someone likes them.? I can even say if something is objectively bad or good . there is an objective criterion which defines if something, a piece of art f.i., is bad or good. Some amateurish painting may be bad, and I can criticize it objectively (technique, choice of colours etc) even if I personally -subjectively - love it. This objective critique doesn't disqualify my personal preference, which is - for me, perfectly justified and legit. But that doesn't change the fact that this painting is objectively bad. With this "oh I don't like criticizing because someone might be hurt" we risk to be just a bunch of people afraid to say relevant comment cause someone might be offended. Where will it get us?nowhere, cause no progress, neither personal nor social or cultural, was ever achieved by "not criticizing cause you now, that thing that I criticize might be someones favorite".
@@liduna2000 i think its fine to criticize something you dont like but i feel likes theres no need to criticize the people who dont agree. Thats my take at least. I can hate the Last Jedi but im not about to bully someone who likes it. Then im just being a jerk
@@keepinitkawaii I agree,absolutely. If you criticize somebody for what he/ she likes, then it's not a critique, it's bullying. But we need a good critique and we need to understand that if someone criticizes what we like, then he/ she doesn't criticize us.
@@keepinitkawaii just because who like the Last Jedi are idiots and know nothing about Star Wars, doesn’t make you a jerk.
@@razorpit it literally does
One of these days, Theory is going to get to interview George Lucas and Mark Hamill.
I see you dashie
I wouldn’t go that far lol
@@davidordaz5251 neither would I lol
@@HO-zy2bv get off the internet Grogu!
Only if the interview is going towards George’s philanthropy or else no dice
What a great fucking interview man, to this day the ROTS novel is one of the best if the not the best I’ve ever read, and somehow surpassed an already masterful movie. Thank you Matt Stover for doing this interview and thank you Theory and Marc for interviewing him!
I’ll have to check it out
Well the thing is books are always gana surpass their movie counter parts dosent matter what franchise because in book format your just gana be able to get more in than you would have been able to In a movie.
@@rafz9147 Ya, but their some books that are bad and make the movie worse, like the ros novel
This question is for everybody what books do you guys recommend to read about Luke’s journey after ROTJ because I’ve never read any of the comics or books so any recommendations would be helpful.
@@MR_T__94 Heir to the Empire for sure. Also Stover's book that Theory mentioned early "Luke Skywalker and the shadows of mindor
Matt Stover is a living legend
I still love him even though he loves "The Last Jedi".
For sure wish we could write more Star Wars stuff
@@lpjp3257 Hmm, I suspect he and I see similar about much - but not all - of that film? But we'll see...
@@lpjp3257 i love TLJ too
Not really. Massively overated writer I found.
Fantastic interview as always man! Really glad you got to interview Matthew Stover, he has written some incredible books and hearing all this extra insight was a delight to watch
Wow Matthew stover is so cool, and he seems really genuine
listening to Revenge of the Sith rn. Stover is the real deal, i'm loving it.
I interviewed Dave filoni
Dude...11/10, best star wars novel i've read. i can't believe this exists.
Check out his Acts of Caine series. Heroes Die is the first novel. It's amazing! Don't let the horrible cover art fool you.
Crawler...
Luke literally says in The Last Jedi that he saw Kylo destroying everything he loves in the future. To me it was the same scene when in Episode 6 Vader threatened his sister and Luke lost it so it made sense to me and I found it consistent with who he is. I have a similar approach to this as Matt: I never go "He wouldn't do that" but I'm trying to understand why he would do that.
It's a hard sell, still, no lie, @MatiZ815 - but definitely POSSIBLE, that way, anyway.
That was when there was still a chance for him to fall to the dark side. He won the fight and then threw his lightsaber to the floor. Rejecting the darkness. Luke had that growth and development for the last jedi and Rian Johnson to just shit on it with him trying to kill a young boy just because he had visions. Which incidentally are exactly why his father fell so low. Luke wasn't his father. That was the point of his character.
@@drd444 but luke didn’t he stop himself from doing it also Ben was like as older than luke in Rotj so he not exactly a kid.
@@drd444 He didn't try to kill Kylo. The overwhelming fear made him instinctively ignite his lightsaber. One brief moment of weakness, just one, and he was left with nothing but shame. No one truly changes forever, we are constantly pushing ourselves to be the people we can be.
Matthew just hit the nail on the head for many of the things that I had thought about when watching the Last Jedi regarding Luke (and connections with themes from the original trilogy) that made it more enjoyable and deep for me. Some of those reasons are:
• Luke had a brief “moment of pure instinct... that passed like a fleeting shadow” that was reflexive with Ben (like when Vader threatened Leia) because he sensed/foresaw Han dying, possibly Leia too, his students, and the entire New Republic, etc. As Luke said, Ben would bring an end to “everything I love.”
• There was a progression from him actually attacking Vader (his own father) and cutting off his arm/hand to only igniting his blade with Ben. This was an improvement, but still the same kind of failure that he was prone to before (even though by this point he was a Jedi Master), which drew him close to the dark side.
• Luke was doing what Yoda did by self-exiling and being cautious (and acting very “out of character”) to deter the searching young & powerful Force user looking to him to bring hope to the galaxy and train them. This was out of fear of furthering his failure. In ROS he tells Rey that “It was fear that kept me here.”
• And this is why Yoda says “the greatest teacher failure is” to Luke. He had not dealt fully with how to embrace and move beyond his repeated failure, especially when he had already fought so hard to overcome his past failures & mistakes (and his father’s).
These are good points, but 2 significant consistency problems remain.
1) Luke after being fully defeated in Empire both physically and especially mentally after learning who his father is, he did not run and hide. He stuck around for his friends and the ideals he cares about by training and through discipline and commitment, in the end persevered. This is a 180 degree change to how Luke dealt with an arguably lesser psychological hit from his moment of weakness that night reading his nephew’s bad thoughts.
2) Yoda went into hiding to escape the Empire primarily in order to be useful again and play his part a bit later. And while doing so, he never cut himself off from the force, he expected to be found again at the right time, he maintained his wisdom and patience, and was willing to train Luke. This is why IMHO, misplaced the parallels between Luke and Yoda are.
And also:
- Most people in their 60s don't act the same way they did in their 20s. Which is not to say they can't have similar traits.
-Luke was specifically instructed by Yoda to use the force for knowledge and defence, but going by the sequel trilogy, his knowledge didn't get him very far, did it? It's almost as if he learned basically nothing for decades, except "hubris" - which is the one lesson he could easily have learned from the characters in the OT. Effectively, Luke took a giant step backwards, then failed training Ben, got depressed for a decade, then changed in the space of 18 hours to who he was as a twenty something by the end of the movie.
- Luke on the DS2, is under a stressful situation, where if he dies, Vader is free to find Leia and torture/turn her. Luke's Temple is his own peaceful home.
-In TLJ, the consequences are *abstract* and without a timeframe.
-Yoda also taught Luke on Dagobah that the future is 'always in motion' and 'difficult to see'.
-Yoda went into exile because all the Jedi were being murdered, and Palpatine had control over everything. He knew where Luke and Leia were, so he was a potential risk to them, if discovered by the Empire and forced to reveal their location.
"He had not dealt fully with how to embrace and move beyond his repeated failure"
-It's funny that Luke has a metal hand, which is what made him stop attacking Vader - but needs to reminded about "failure"
If you love the movie that's great, but you're picking and choosing what things Luke could/should have learned from the OT to justify what TLJ decided he was. And TLJ's writer RJ, made him that way because of the characters and situation he was given from TFA.
Just like Matthew in this video found a way to explain what happens in the movie, it doesn't mean it's who the character *is* at all, it just means there's a way to explain pretty much anything
Hot take: Luke's exile made more sense than Yoda because Yoda had nothing to lose since he could always train Luke and Leia even if he dies (as a force ghost) while Luke had a fully understandable reason to not join the new rebellion and/or fight the current dark side user/s until the very end because he lost faith in himself.
@@Hracer84 There's a gigantic difference between losing Han for a couple of days (+ his hand for a couple of hours) and causing your nephew to turn evil, kill your other students and thus catastrophically fail your sister and best friend, not to mention the rest of the galaxy.
Also, Yoda could still train Luke as a force ghost, so he didn't really need to hide when you think about it - contrast that with Luke, who WANTED to disappear because of his failure.
@@Hracer84 Thank you for taking the time to read this and share your thoughts. I understand what you’re trying to communicate with those points. What I thought about while reading your first point was that there is a major difference between what happened to Luke in ESB and what happened in both the ROTJ & the events before the sequels. In ESB, he lost his hand and his failure was personal. He was the only one who suffered (except Han, but this was not caused by Luke). In the ROTJ & the flashback with Ben, he was witnessing the destruction and death of others that he loved and the very things that had given him purpose in life (his friends, the rebellion/resistance, the hope of the Jedi, except in TLJ there was now also everything he had spent years to build that would be destroyed (his students and the new Jedi temple)). So in TFA & TLJ, I believe Luke had been dealt an even greater hit psychologically, especially because of the higher stakes that he foresaw and that because of his failure in his reflex to ignite his saber, he became the very thing led to the finalization of Ben Solo’s turn and helped to usher in the destruction and death that he foresaw. This is similar, yet distinct, from Yoda’s failure. Luke failed primarily by his actions while Yoda’s failure was primarily a result of his inaction, like poetry.
This brings me to your second point. You may be correct that part of Yoda’s purpose was still hopeful (credited to his exceeding wisdom and long life as a Jedi and master compared to Luke). However, it should also be considered that his sense of immense failure and grief of losing thousands of Jedi (many he trained), his friends, and failing to stop the rise of the Empire & the Sith was certainly all a part of Yoda’s decision to exile. And furthermore, Yoda really did not want to train Luke (like Luke with Rey), so I question the notion of him going there primarily to prepare for helping the future hope of the Jedi. And perhaps whether or not Yoda closed himself off from the Force would be something interesting to look into, but I think to some degree he would have had to in order to not be found by Sidious. Either way, these considerations don’t change or nullify the logic of the points that I was trying to make.
Again, I appreciate your insight and understand if you still disagree. I’m glad that we can be united by our love for Star Wars!
Jesus, imagine Obiwan chucking Anakin into the lava. Walking away. And that's why he was convinced that he had killed him lol
I got to interview Dave filoni
Like in the version of the fight from The Force Unleashed (PSP) lol.
with no time, another sith lord approaching, he was no murderer. he left it to the will of the force
I read the books and they are amazing they kept me company when i was getting bullied at school, i honestly thank you
Mathew: I loved the last Jedi.....
Theory: really?....
Me: this is where the fun begins....
Yup, hahahaha
I'm glad I was viewing the livestream on my television instead of my phone. Three guesses as to why.
@@sambridgers9543 is one for replay value
@@spadesandshades-pc9tx Not really. It was more that I didn't want to deal with chat blowing up.
I’ll go a step further to his ‘Luke seeing Han die’ vision. When Luke asks Chewy, “Where’s Han???” He knows that vision came true and that probably scared the hell out of him. Who the hell would want to see the future, knowing it will come true. That’s a power some people wouldn’t want.
It's still ridiculous that he would sneak into his nephews room while he was sleeping and come within seconds of chopping his head off.
Who had the idea to cut his reaction, but left tittly milk scene?!
@@MrLebowski1980 Yoda says in Revenge of the Sith. Visions of the future can lead to dark side especially feelings felt by the fear of loss, that is what happened for Luke in Last Jedi.
Yoda: Careful you must be when sensing the future Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side.
Anakin Skywalker: I won't let these visions come true, Master Yoda.
Yoda: Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is.
Anakin Skywalker: What must I do, Master Yoda?
Yoda: Train yourself to let go... of everything you fear to lose.
@@MrLebowski1980 Is it, though? Luke said that he saw darkness building in him during his training, and because of that must have not been able to sleep out of sheer worry - not just for Ben himself but the others students too.
@@zigurdur92 O. K, so when Luke was faced with the crimes that his father commited and the future atrocities his father was likely to commit, he willingly walked onto the death star to sacrifice himself in an effort to save his father. But when he sees some dark thoughts of the future in his nephews mind, he sneaks in to his bedroom while he sleeps and comes within seconds of chopping his head off. Does that sound like even remotely the same person to you, and does it even make a tiny bit of sense?
Matthew: "There's a reason you are called 'Rule of Two'"
Theory: *casually kicks Marc* "always two there are, no more, no less"
This guy is a genius. Revenge of the Sith is the best Star Wars novel in my opinion. He understood the entire episode before it was even put on screen. Stover has it together and knows what he’s doing. I’m so impressed that you got this guy on your channel because the Revenge of the Sith novel has become a classic among Star Wars fans. When I read it 16 years ago, I was blown away. Whenever someone talks about ROTS someone always says, “You should read the book.” That’s how great the book is.
Thank you so much for bringing this guy on, this was great.
What a load of bollocks...
For the younger generation out there who have only experienced social media arguments, this is what is called a debate. Just because all of them didn’t agree on everything, they listened and politely countered each other. We are growing up in a world of tribalism and nobody wants to hear the other side. And when they do, it is met with sarcasm because everyone is typing on their phone. These 3 were talking face to face and had to be respectful. I still have many issues with TLJ, but Mr Stover challenged my context of Luke in that movie. Kudos to this podcast!
Exactly sometimes I wish every comment section would be a voice recording or face to face somehow
Where did you get that assumption!?!
@@justaguywhocomments4795 wdym
a guest is powerful when they make Theory question his own beliefs. awesome interview
Wow. 58:05 you can hear a pin drop when Matthew is explaining the character reasoning in TLJ. Such a brilliant mind. I felt the same thing Theory did, mind unlocked 😳🤯
You could make up any reason you wanted to, if that's all it took to get you to understand Luke's disposition. The problem is that Rian Johnson decided that the details that would have led the audience to at least understand how Luke ended up as he did, just weren't as important as all the other crap in TLJ that we could have done without. Matt Stover just injected his own head canon into TLJ, and granted, it's better than actual canon, but that's been the point, the whole time. You have to make up your own reasons to justify Rian's decisions, because he doesn't give us his own. That's why the movie sucks, at least as far as Luke is concerned. Even Mark Hamill had to make his own back story up. No one brought that up.
While this *could've* been an explanation, the problem is that you have to add details that aren't in the movie. Same with the lightsaber toss explanation, you can't try and retroactively justify Rian's writing with reasoning that isn't in his film
@@jacobp249 fr it’s creating a movie that doesn’t exist
@@randalthekidd7006 wrong
I genuinely don't get this. This is the same as Anakin falling to the dark side and causing all that pain just because he was afraid of padme dying. The whole point of Luke is he isn't his father. He wouldn't give in to this sort of thing. He looked at his hand and Darth Vaders and said no.
Putting this in changes his character at a core level that can't just be explained away like that.
So cool seeing Theory geek out when the guy was talking about Anakin and Mace. You can really tell he loves Star Wars haha
Happy Revenge of the 5th! I'm glad I was able to watch this interview live!
Revenge of the Sith was the first Star Wars book I read and from there I knew how rich the story of Star Wars was. It’s great to see the man that lit a fire inside me!
That guy is such a legend, such a creative mind he can even make a good story out of the (well known) shoddy written sequels
Agreed I wish he could’ve written the sequels instead of the garbage bland boring stuff we got
@@aamirrazak3467 Same, I hope he's come back on again, as a fan he really seemed to just enjoy it.
It was also good to have someone on who nerded out and knew all of the in depth details we liked. I feel like some of the other guys they have interviewed have not been bothered by any of it or maybe just didn't know.
@@xelad6159 agreed that’s one of the things I loved about his work, he really cared about the lore characters and story and it showed in his writing. Modern Star Wars writers just don’t seem to care that much at all
I think for all it’s flaws the sequel story has potential to be fleshed out more. This guy just explained it really well. Wish other people could see his point of view!
@@erikbrenner5138 if it was written by a single person a or group of people who agreed on a single vision the sequels would have at least had a coherent story line and who knows, maybe even character development and respect for legacy characters? It’s hard to say, I really agree with you that this guy would be a GEM as a script writer or part of the story group (they really need to clean house over there) he just seems to have such a fluid and creative mind, also Marc is so right, Kylo Ren’s intro scene is incredible! excited for the bad batch episode 2, Filoni knows what he’s doing!
That was so good! Definitely my favorite interview so far. I hope he can come back again.
I agree with you Alexis completely! Such great little gems revealed here!
Yup Matt stover is a legend! It’s always awesome to get his insights
I'm so glad he threw Rogue One in there as one of his favorites. I absolutely love that movie from start to finish.
Matt Stover the legend made me want to watch The Last Jedi for the first time since seeing it in theaters when it came out. Going to watch it with a new mindset.
how'd it go? Ive been thinking of watching the sequels and going in with a different mindset this year since I havent seen them since the theaters
@@barkley8285 Watched all the movies in order with my girlfriend who had never seen Star Wars before and rots and the last two movies were her favourites. Now I think I have a bigger problem with Rise of Skywalker than TLJ, but I tought all the sequels were better than I remembered.
@@robmug8669 poor you
@@justaguywhocomments4795 Don’t worry I dumped the woman.
@@robmug8669 good
Matt wrote my favourite STAR WARS scene ever, Ganner Rhysode's last stand against the Yuuzhan Vong in the ruins of Coruscant in the novel TRAITOR. Matt's non-STAR WARS novels are superb as well. His ACTS OF CAINE sequence - HEROES DIE, BLADE OF TYSHALLE, CAINE BLACK KNIFE and CAINE'S LAW - is one of the very best SFF series of the last twenty years.
this was an absolutely amazing watch. please have him on again, this was the absolute best so far. so incredible.
ROTS is my all time favorite Star Wars novel. I’ve lost count on how many times I’ve read it. A real page turner.
Thank you Mr. Mathew Stover for helping me see The Last Jedi from a fresh certain point of view.
People have been saying what he has for years… it’s nothing new…
When he said that Luke probably saw that Ben was going to kill Han, it blew my mind too. Definitely going to rewatch. Very cool to hear Matthew’s view on that.
That was always my feeling about Luke. He would kill anyone even his nephew if he felt his nephew would harm either Han or Leia.
@@zigurdur92 😂 too bad in the shitty movie Luke just wants to murder him for mean thoughts
I watched TLJ last night for the first time since it’s release....wanted to see if I felt differently after some time had passed, so it’s very fresh in my mind.... mind blown 🤯
@@randalthekidd7006 You're lying, Luke says "Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it." not just "He thinks about being mean". There are light years between those 2.
@@randalthekidd7006 omg i guess anakin's visions about padme were just "mean thoughts" am i right? hahahah omg skywalkers, such drama queens
Pre-interview: Man I hate the last jedi
Post-interview: ....I need to think about this
What a fantastic interview
I don't get you guys. A better author injects his own head canon into TLJ, because the actual author of the story didn't, and no one sees the irony. Even Hamill said he had to make up his own back story. The movie never intended to give a convincing story as to why Luke did what he did, because we were suppose to empathize with Kylo, not Luke. The problem is that the original trilogy of films still exist, and if Rian wanted to turn Luke into Jake, he should have written a screen play that made the audience at least see how it happened.
@@wetubeerman no, he left the film up to interpretation
@@wetubeerman the movie does give a convincing story for Luke’s motives. He had a whole emotional, heavy monologue about it.
Luke Skywalker : I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose Master had failed him.
@@laserbrains1345 no it doesn’t, love the movie all you want it’s still shit
@@randalthekidd7006 okay. Sorry for liking Star Wars.
A good point that as a Last Jedi fan I must agree with, is that it would greatly enrich the relationship between Ben Solo and the other characters by fleshing out the events between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, just like the prequel era did for Anakin - Dave Filoni, get on that!
What isn't, AT ALL, a good point though, is "this isn't in the movie" about future Ren killing Han when Luke explicitly said that Ren will destroy EVERYONE he loved.
My mind has officially been blown for the last Jedi. I had the same thoughts that Theory did on it but I am now extremely eye opened.
Theory's interview skills have improved so much from the earlier days of the rule of two interviews. Early on he was quiet and marc said most of the questions but now theory is more confident to freely ask questions and it's basically 50 50 in terms of contribution between Marc and theory.
The ROTS novelisation is a phenomenal piece of work - I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to appreciates it
58:08
The precise moment where Stover "fixed" The Last Jedi for Theory
‘Fixed’ is a strong word
@@surges12 and wrong even with the retcons he proposes it’s a broken story
Nothing can fix rose tico
@@randalthekidd7006 what retcons? the prequels have way more retcons
@@StarWarsInfinite except for the kiss, she was fine
Great interview. I loved hearing Mr. Stover's perspective on The Last Jedi.
Please bring him back, this was hands down my favourite episode of Rule of Two. Loved his insight on The Last Jedi but slightly sad we didn't get more stories of his work on the books (but that's all the more reason to bring him back :P) great episode!
bro ive been binging these old interviews, so greatful for these!
You need to interview James Luceno some day as well. And Troy Denning (:
And Timothy zahn
@@aamirrazak3467 yeah
And drew karpshyne
Stackpole, too...?
@@chrissonofpear1384 yeah ive been reading his njo books and he's a pretty good writer
This guy really changed the way I look at The Last Jedi
Such a wonderuf interview. As a 1987 fan, TLJ is also my favorite Sequel Trilogy. I really enjoyed a different take on Luke I've read about in Legends since late 90's!
this might be my favorite interview of all time. cheers to all of you for that brilliant conversation. i feel like i should’ve paid to hear this
in 2005 when the turkish publisher contacted me to ask if I wanted to translate the book İ said, "No, i dont want any spoiler before I see the movie!" (they were planning the publish the book when the movie hit the theaters). When I hung up, a friend of mine slapped me and said, "are you an idiot?" then convinced me to take the job :) Translation took a month. and while I was doing the last pages, there were always tears in my eyes... So I wanna thank Mr Stover for that incredible experience (I think this is the closest I can get to him :) )
My favorite part of Revenge of the Sith was Obi Wan's reacting to learning Anakin had fallen to the dark side. It was written soooooo well and it really stuck with me.
why would there be a directors cut of Revenge of the Sith? Lucas had full creative control on that film. He funded it entirely. The cut we got was his directors cut. The four hour cut hasnt been seen because Lucas didnt want us to see it
Yeah I feel like people use the term "director's cut" without knowing what it means
@@stardustnation2480 Why would Star Wars Theory care about how it's called it's more sensational to use the terms Director's cut
Dude, Theory. I say it every time, but these interviews are gold. Thank you so much. This stuff is so valuable, especially as a writer. It's super interesting, but it's also useful. I really hope other people realize how huge these interviews are. So cool. Thank you.
This was so good! My favorite interview so far
Amazing conversation. Loved his perspective on TLJ. Even as a sequel fan, he opened my eyes to even more reasons to enjoy the film. I look forward to him returning!
Matthew Stover is a legend. He just blew me away with his Last Jedi theories. I may have to re-watch the sequel trilogy again. 👀
It's not even a theory. It's literally in the movie. How are y'all acting like he just blew your minds after 4 years when all this stuff is in the movie lmao.
This interview was 🔥 and once again we got it confirmed that Mace beat Palpatine and Palpatine didn’t let him win or faking it , he actually lost to Mace and was about to die
It's like of course Ian mcdiarmid would tell his fans that he beat Windu lol but we all know the truth.
O yeah
Hell yeah!! That's what I wanted!
I always thought Mace won lol
We need a timestamp here pls
Holy shit.I love it.Matt Stover is an amazing author. The Dooku chapter fight scene on the Invisible Hand was devastating. Great interview guys
What a beautiful interview. Have never learned so much lore as I have now. Bloody well done!
As someone once said: every time you think Theory outdid himself with these interviews he always one-ups them with the next ones. Amazing.
I happen to be listening to the revenge of the sith audiobook right now
Me 2
Wow. I might go and watch the last Jedi again with a new pair of eyes after this interview. What a sharp guy, his logic is so simple and to the point, amazing, he should really be a part of the Lucasfilm story group!
"He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence." -Luke Skywalker
@@RayOfTruth Luke in TLJ is so in character, he doesn’t care about his consequences (you got the quote wrong) he immediately cares about Kylo and what he just did to him
@@camdensparks524 I didn't get the quote wrong, you just don't remember the movie as well as you think.
@@RayOfTruth no the quote is “i was left with the scared eyes of a boy whose master had failed him”
@@camdensparks524 He says that directly afterwards.
"I saw darkness. I sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training. But then I looked inside, and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, pain, death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him." -Luke Skywalker
Really interesting hearing about Anakin vs Mace and Luke's vision. I already liked TLJ and I knew that he saw all this destruction but Han's death specifically never occured to me. Plus I really like his approach to things(in films and books etc at least): don't doubt someone's actions, find out why they executed them, don't stick to "what", find the "why".
"It passed on like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame, and with consequence..."
Was that "fleeting shadow" so quick, subtle and powerful to make the Jedi Grandmaster give in to fear? Did it laugh? If you listened closely, could you hear the words: "Do it!"?
I know that the Dark Side influenced Luke there of course, but what if Sidious was able to influence Luke for a split second, unnoticeable, not strong enough to destroy him (as a person) because Luke was more powerful by then but enough to make him doubt himself.
The revenge of the sith video game was so underrated
Amazes me how clueless they were about Luke's moment.
exactly. people have been saying this/commenting this/arguing this for YEARS. It is the exact representation of Rian's story as he shows in the movie AND in the commentary but I guess if you really want to believe something, you will until someone you trust forces you to reflect.
Keep these up, super cool to hear more about starwars from inside perspectives 😊
This is by far one of the best, if not the best Rule of Two interviews, but there's been so many. Guys, you are knocking these outta the park. Theory and Marc, thanks.
Matthew Stover is one of my favorite authors! I literally LOVE Shadows of Mindor and Shatterpoint. I hate I missed this when it was live.
How is lucasfilm not hiring this guy back? This is one of the smartest dudes I have ever heard speak. Great interview
Thank you for all the great work you guys do. So much great content. Love yall
These interviews getting better and better each time well done guys it was really nice seeing theory ask him to consult on the next fan film.
"Oh.""Okay.""Huh.""Huh?" "Great.""Oh, okay. Great."
Who am I?
Hey SWTheory, I think it could definitely enhance the interview/improve your interview skills and ability to get more out of your interviewees if you learned a simple, structured, yet natural-feeling, response that you can adaptably use to adapt to prompt your interviewee to elaborate further any particularly deep answer they give or on a really complex subject that would simply be fun to explore.
One really simple method is to simply repeat their response back to them, changing a few words or the structure as a whole, which also shows you heard and understood them. Marc does this, intentionally or not, at 1:04:46, and you can see how effective the simple technique is at opening wide the conversation and leading to some completely unexpected conversation threads!
There's plenty of techniques you can use. A few more could be, one, elaborating on how a particular response/answer made you FEEL/asking them to do the same, another would be to simply asking 'why?' in response to a 'what' type of answer, and, lastly, just being more FOCUSED on when a response is too brief/when there's potentially a lot more left to be conversationally unearthed. Whether you notice or not, you both use these techniques naturally or subconsciously multiple times, so I think the key is to be more aware of the technique usage and to actively use them more.
I love your channel, and all of these interviews, by the way, which is why I don't like seeing moments where the video could be better, or, if I do, why I feel compelled to offer advice!
That was amazing
Thank you and
May The force be with you always 🙏🙏🙏
This was my favorite interview so far! Matthew is so insightful and seems like such a good person. Thank you for a great episode of Rule of Two
This is one of the best Star Wars Interviews I've heard in a long while
He made me go from hating to TLJ to just not finding it (kinda) accepting it in just a few words with a short explanation. What a guy.
TLJ is also my 2nd favorite StarWar of all time! And TLJ Luke is SO much more inspiring than him cutting down droids in a hallway.
For me it’s just 3rd or joint second with ROTJ, TESB takes the cake imo
Luke as a character was at his peak in ROTJ and TLJ, he's the best
It’s insane watching these guys completely unable to read the film
I wanna hear more of Matthew Stover! Dude's amazing at describing storytelling. Wanted this to go on forever
Mr. Stover you are awesome! Thank you for doing this interview, and thank you for all the work you've done in and out of Star Wars
Great interview and an eloquent discussion about Star Wars. Just awesome stuff
YESSSSSS. THE ROTS NOVEL IS EFFING AMAZING
Wow, that's an insanely awesome guest. One of my favorite SW authors for sure! I've yet to read the prequel novelizations but I've been inspired now.
Wow! Such a great interview and so much I could say!
- I always loved Matthew Stover's novels. One of my favourite little detail was in Shatterpoint where at one point Windu was thinking about how he stood next Dooku in the Geonosian arena, and if he would have killed him right then, the Clone Wars might have been stopped before it even could began. And that next time, he would do what must be done to end the war. Even if by going against the Jedi Code or his own moral code. And that gives so much more meaning to the moment where he stands over Sidious and says "I am going to end this once and for all" and how we can see his struggle on his face in making that choice while knowing that what he wants to do is wrong but ultimately would serve the greater good. I love it!
- It's funny how one of the excuses for getting rid of the EU was that the average movie-goers, who are obviously a larger group, wouldn't feel left out and could understand the story better, so that they don't have to know what happened after ROTJ for that and all the characters' backstory. But the sequel trilogy was made so out of context, that nor the average movie-goers nor the hardcore fans could understand what and why happened. And here's a real, professional writer, and with a simple sentence, he fills in the blank spots and makes it reasonable and understandable. I'm not a fan at all of the Disney canon, but if they had hired Matthew Stover to write the same plot, I believe the sequel trilogy's story would have been good enough for me to be enjoyable.
- Just a little personal story: Revenge Of The Sith was among one of the first Star Wars books that I have ever read (around when I was 13, in 2006). It may have been what inspired me to write my own Star Wars story as I can find a similar style in my "novel" that he used in ROTS, where he stopped telling the story and talked about the characters, like "This is Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker: closer than friends, more like brothers, etc." or "This is Count Dooku, Darth Tyranus: (and goes on talking about his personality, his intentions, etc.)" and I did the same thing in my story because I thought that was interesting. :D Though I never finished the "novel"... after 36 pages (and some years) I realised it is poorly written, so I started over... only to stop after 90 pages, where I lost the inspiration. I never had an idea how to continue a whole subplot. Eventually, I gave it up and moved on to doing other things. Looking back now, while it being much better than the "first draft", this longer "second draft" would also need to be started over, and I know it would be even better, but I realise that after a few years I would find that obsolete, too. I would always want to start it over, making it better and I know I would never finish it. I look up to professional writers so much for what they can do, finish something what is good and they are content with it. I just can't. What I write is never good enough for me.
Sorry for the long comment. :D
Holy shit just got to last jedi bit. This interview gradually opened up and then BLEW up. That was crazy. Cannot believe that never even so far as crossed my mind
As a fan of the film I find that kind of weird, after all Luke says everything Matt says here (and even more, in that Luke saw EVERYTHING he loved turn to ash because of Kylo Ren, not just Han)
@@knowledgeanddefense1054 Same. Glad people are coming around, just wondering why it took this specific person saying what everyone else has been saying.
@@nickwebster1980 Because they just hated The Last Jedi because people like SWT told them to. Then when they saw their star wars fan idol get schooled on TLJ they're like "oh well that's my opinion now"
@@ed1rko17 It is undoubtedly true a lot of people, on CZcams or otherwise, simply mindlessly follow and regurgitate whatever their idols tell them to think or believe. Of course, on the other hand, that doesn't inherently make the general point wrong, either. Believe it or not, it's possible for people to be brainless sheeple and, at the same time, to be correct that, say, a particular movie is dog shit. This would be one of those times.
@@papapalps2415 Ok, well if anyone would be correct on the last jedi, it would be the guy who saw Empire 28 times in the theater and is an established story teller who made one of the best pieces of star wars content ever right? And The Last Jedi is his second favourite SW movie. So you're gonna tell that guy that he's incorrect? Where are your story telling credentials that supersede Matthew Stovers?
Sadly was only able to catch the last few minutes but Matt stover is a legend, my favorite Star Wars author by far his revenge of the sith novelization (my favorite Star Wars book) the tenebrous way and shatterpoint books are incredible. I wish he could get to write more Star Wars stuff, he really gets the lore
You and me both, gonna rewatch the whole thing on the channel later!
@@laserbrain100 agreed sounds like a really great discussion they had!
This interview was fantastic. I can't thank the Star Wars Theory channel enough for these incredible guests and insights!!!
This interview was freaking awesome Theory! I think this is y’all best one yet for sure! And a perfect interview for Revenge of the 5th
This guy has such a great mind, I love the ROTS novelisation so far!
It’s an amazing book just like his other Star Wars work
I really enjoyed this interview! Loved his perspective on Luke in TLJ! It would've been great if they added a flash of Han's death as Luke was seeing those dark future visions through Ben! I guess it would've explained his instictual impulse to raise his lightsaber better. And I also very much agree with him about Luke, that his greatest power is his empathy and compassion.
Luke literally said he saw Ben destroying EVERYTHING he loved.
@@dreamslove1184 I know, and for you and a lot of fans that was enough, which is great. But I feel that maybe showing some of those dark visions could've had more impact and added more weight and plausibility to Luke’s actions in the eyes of the majority of the audience. It would still be up for debate though in my opinion because there's still the question of his own experience during his life with dark visions and the many possibilities of the future as he was growing and developing his abilities and why he didn't learn from it, or had a better grasp how to handle it without abject fear, but perhaps the movie's intent was for us not to question that. Anyway, I'm personally 50/50 on this.
Quite easily the best and most interesting interview you’ve done recently
Really awesome interview, thanks for doing this. Matt seems like such a humble and genuine guy, hope he gets all the recognition he deserves, Shatterpoint was SPECTACULAR.
Matthew Stover, a truly great author. The film should have followed the novelisation first, and much more closely. His insights into the mythology are beyond first-rate. I would have celebrated if I had seen his name in the closing credits of the film.
Agreed I love the film but I felt the novelization was even better it fleshed out the details of Anakins fall much more
Fantastic interview. It's interesting that everyone here thinks he added stuff that wasn't in TLJ to justify it. To me, and most TLJ fans, all this stuff was already explained in the movie/dialog/script. That's WHY we like it haha.
What it reveals is that most audiences are not fucking literate
That was a awesome interview. Thank yall so much.
This man literally understands basic logic that happened regarding Luke and his choices in The Last Jedi. Something my wife and I felt the same way about immediately when watching that film. How fans have never seen that point of view as clearly as Matthew does baffles us.
I urge all of you!!!! Read New Jedi Order Series and eventually read to Traitor. It’s one of the greatest pieces of SW content ever created. Thank you Mr. Stover for coming on!
Word I’ve currently been reading the new Jedi order series. I’m on dark tide II ruin rn and it’s pretty great and dark so far can’t wait to get to traitor
@@aamirrazak3467 your gonna blow out soon, that series is too long
@@barkley8285 yeah 19 books is hella long I wished they’d shortened it
@@aamirrazak3467 yea by the time i finished it i was so done.
@@aamirrazak3467 If 19 books seems too long, here are the novels I recommend skipping.
Agents of Chaos II: Jedi Eclipse -The first one is pretty good and by James Luceno who is arguably the best SW author. But this Duology was not intended as two parts and it shows. You can easily read a summary and learn what happens without missing much.
Balance Point - This is actually one of the paperbacks and was intended to be one of the more essential novels, but I honestly think the first 2/3 of this novel are just boring as hell, and Kathy Tyers’s prose is just awkward. That being said, the last 1/3 of the books is really really good. So maybe skim through this one but definitely read the last 40 pages or so.
Dark Journey --Elaine Cunningham is another boring writer. I’d skip this one all together as nothing substantial happens. There’s kinda an important emotional event, but it’s just underwhelmingly written.
Aside from that, the rest are all good to really good!!
This makes me want watch last Jedi again damn!
Again, amazing Rule of Two episode. Thanks for coming on Matt, what a treat to hear what he has to say
Killing it with these interviews
“Shouldn’t Luke have had an uncle talk with Ben about his darkness” uhhhh yeah he probably would’ve if Ben didn’t unfortunately see Luke in his moment of weakness....that’s why Luke desperately says “BEN NOOOOO” cause Luke knows he can explain the situation and help him
Yeah that’s the thing. It’s just a big misunderstanding if Ben had woken up who knows what could’ve happened
Luke is a jedi master with at least two decades of experience under his belt he would not be such a coward as to sneak up on the son of his twin sister and best friend.
Or even if Luke didn't want to confront him, why not first contact Leia, Han or the other force ghosts tell them his concerns before making a move?
@@allowableman2 Well, he didn't go to kill him, did he - he went to, at most, look into his mind, whilst increasingly worried or unnerved.
But yeah, it could have gone way smoother. And he should have instantly deactivated his Sabre. Still, he wasn't REALLY afraid or tempted by instinct, until he looked into Ben's heart, and future... I gather.
@@allowableman2 I swear you people didn't even watch the movie lmao he sensed something wrong during Ben's training and went at night to see what was inside....he saw that Ben would turn into Kylo and kill all his friends, students, and family...so out of pure instinct he went into protection mode and igniting his saber...and immediately stopped that train of thought...which is why he said "it passed like a fleeting shadow"
@@winslowpete6806 Should’ve been a good and way much better story writing. They wanted the movie, could’ve been way much better.
Obamacare saved this man's life or at the very least saved him from financial ruin. Love the thought that he's still around and able to give us more SW stories and help others with theirs.
This interview is FANTASTIC. So fascinating.
Big fan and think this was my favorite video that I have watched of yours, amazing interview
Fantastic interview! Lots of stuff to think about.
Another amazing episode of Rule of two and Omg Theory and James collab on Shard's of the past ❤️ Please gowd! Theory Marc chat you guy's have a great one
Was hyped for this interview, now I'm bloody...wow😲.
Great content again, and you nailed it. The novel with the movie is the only way to experience the end of TCW and Anakin's fall...well it is truly awesome what the animated series had added, but Stover's writing is essential.
Thanks for the great work and content, really helps get through over a year of remote teaching overseas!