Shooting a 276 lb simple wooden crossbow
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2021
- Late 12th century crossbow replica made from wood (maple). The bow is based on the dimensions of the Berkhamsted Castle find (the original made from yew).
Distance bow - nut: 380mm
Powerstroke: 270mm - Věda a technologie
I can't believe maple took that much of a draw weight, even if its only over a short length. pretty incredible, and it shoots straight unlike many crossbows I have seen.
Клён одна из прочных деревьев я черенки для вил и лопат делаю из этого дерева немножко тяжеловато ,но не ломаются.
What kind of crossbows have you seen?
Looking at material like the Battle of San Romano, Higuerela, manuscript drawings, old frescos, as well as the Segovia and Glasgow crossbows, I get the impression that large wood crossbows were far more prevalent than given credit for, and also that steel crossbows were quite a bit less prevalent until the late 15th century, with composite and to a lesser degree wood bows really being the norm
yep, I agree with this opinion
very interesting test, basically your crossbow is double my weight but half the powerstroke, and performs about the same, so it seems the equation of 1/2 Powertroke*Draw weight*Prod efficiency is not bad: (276lb crossbow doing 167 fps @ 673 grain. My Han Chinese crossbow of wood prod of 120lb with 560mm powerstroke does 170fps @880 grain. )
So launch area must bigger?
@@kusukacolaylowlee1611 It must be longer draw and the string used must be elastic as well. For reference, 1200lb steel prod crossbow use incredibly stiff string, being similiar to a metal rod than even a cable.
And to support that claim, search Limousine Crossbow youtube channel. The guy made a very crude crossbow but with the string being made out of elastic rubber, the result is a 200lb crossbow that can outpower 1250lb crossbow by a lot of differences.
What I read here:
Shitting on another man‘s work, while patting oneself on the back
@@arturleperoke3205 That's just stupid take. What he means is that neither powerstroke/draw length or draw weight have any advantage over one another.
@@cool06alt you wish that he meant it that way..
It seems a constant in medieval crossbows, the loss of efficiency implied by the thickness of the string and the fact that it loses part of its power due to friction against the wooden spar when the shot is fired. The shape and weight of the bolt does not seem to help maximize its aerodynamic performance either.
Interesting and instructive video. Thank you.
No,crossbow have big draw weight but less draw lenght
A look at an underrepresented bow. Samples of historical artwork. chronograph data and range test. On all points bravo.
Is it easier if you use a your feet and a lever with both hands at the same time?
Such early crossbows (~1200) doesn't have any spanning devices
What is the longest draw length we can achieve with a handspanned crossbow?
A good question - its depending from the bowlenght.....
@@medievalcrossbows7621 How long should the crossbow prod be in order to pull longer than a longbow, like up to 1 meter?
@@gn2650 approx 3m
@@medievalcrossbows7621 I guess that is for a ballista, what would it be for a hand crossbow?
@@gn2650 If you want a powerstroke of 1 meter so you'll need a wooden bow for about 3m ;-)
Hooray!!! Thank God you are back!!! I thought your channel was dead for a bit and I was very depressed.
Frage mich, war die Befiederung ( Federn oder Holz) der Bolzen mit einem Drall versehen oder gerade?
amazing! the arrow can reaches up to 204 meters. wowww❤
Sehr gute Arbeit. Ich habe in meinen 13. Jhd Armbrusten immer die Nuss mit einer Fadenwicklung eingebunden, weil ja im Prinzip keinerlei Belastung darauf kommt. Ich meine in Bozen gibt es eine Armbrust späteren Jahrhunderts die noch eine eingebundene Nuss hat. Zusätzlich habe ich im Nussbrunnen, um das Holz zu schonen, vor die Nuss noch eine Geweihplatte eingeleimt die praktisch als reibfläche dient. Dort etwas Fett darauf, und die Reibung ist sehr gering.
Was ich in der Slomo Aufnahme geil finde, dass sogar der vergleichsweise dicke Bolzen vom Schub verbogen wird. Hätte ich so nicht erwartet.
This cross-bow is a bow of the barbarians quite unknown to the Greeks; and it is not stretched by the right hand pulling the string whilst the left pulls the bow in a contrary direction, but he who stretches this warlike and very far-shooting weapon must lie, one might say, almost on his back and apply both feet strongly against the semi-circle of the bow and with his two hands pull the string with all his might in the contrary direction. In the middle of the string is a socket, a cylindrical kind of cup fitted to the string itself, and about as long as an arrow of considerable size which reaches from the string to the very middle of the bow; and through this arrows of many sorts are shot out.
The arrows used with this bow are very short in length, but very thick, fitted in front with a very heavy iron tip. And in discharging them the string shoots them out with enormous violence and force, and whatever these darts chance to hit, they do not fall back, but they pierce through a shield, then cut through a heavy iron corselet and wing their way through and out at the other side. So violent and ineluctable is the discharge of arrows of this kind. Such an arrow has been known to pierce a bronze statue, and if it hits the wall of a very large town, the point of the arrow either protrudes on the inner side or it buries itself in the middle of the wall and is lost. Such then is this monster of a crossbow, and verily a devilish invention. And the wretched man who is struck by it, dies without feeling anything, not even feeling the blow, however strong it be.
Those are the words of Anna Comnena writing on the Normans and the first Crusade.
This crossbow obviously doesn't match that description, as it's only about as powerful as a 60-80lb bow. There must have been stronger crossbows in use at the time.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Personally I believe wooden prod crossbows like this might have gone up to about 80-90 joules. I extrapolated that from other tests and take into account the primary sources being more or less clear on the fact that contemporary mail could stop these projectiles.
I also think it is quite possible that represented a powerful (compared to contemporary bows) crossbow. People might overestimate how powerful short composite bows or self bows were.
@@TheOhgodineedaname We have a lot of evidence for powerful bows at this point, across time & space. Plenty of experienced archers today shoot 100+lb bows, & a good yew longbow of that weight might manage 90 J with a medium-weight arrow. Well-made composite bows do better still. Crossbows at 80-90 J could have been effective weapons but wouldn't have been anything to write home about, unless the Byzantine military was accustomed to particularly light bows for some reason. Perhaps Comnena's account is simply fanciful.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 There's another Byzantine source which treats crossbows as the same and North African and Middle Eastern accounts also mention these wooden prod crossbows (which don't go much over 300 pound drawweight) as being the most powerful missile weapons around.
Well, to be able to fly trough a shield, plus an iron armour and and continue its trajectory after all that, it would need to be a solid heavy bolt with at least 1000 joules of kinetic energy, a 100 g bolt at 150 m/s for exemple, or a 400 g bolt at 70+ m/s like Joerg Sprave's 1100 J airbow... As far as I know, in the 11th /12th century, such performances could simply not be achieved with a wood or composite crossbow prod... But maybe I'm wrong...
I'm gonna make a target with a shield, a cuirass and backplate soon. There will be a video where I will shoot the most powerful crossbow in my collection at this target, and we will see the result !
Looking awesome.
Best video yet! Love this style of testing!
schöne armbrust, kommt von den joulezahlen in ungefähr einem leichten kriegsbogen gleich. ich habe bei nem 70lbs engländer ganz ähnliche werte bekommen (pfeilgewicht und m/s) aber pfeile werden ja auch länger beschleunigt
Hey rowanbows! Was machst du den bei den Armbrustern??☺ baust du auch mal eine??
@@guntherhuemer1767 ich hab ne playlist "crossbows" hab da 4 stk drin
@@Rowanbows achso.😃 dein Kanal ist übrigens auch suuper😊
Danke, dass es noch Qualität aus Österreich gibt!
I would love to see your version of a 11th century war crossbow. One you might find at the battle of Hastings or first crusade!
Why are there no metal side plates for the nut ? Wouldt the pin wear out the wood quickly?
Metal side plates are common in the 15th century an later - this is a reconstruction from an early crossbow so the most parts are from wood....
@@medievalcrossbows7621 Thanks for telling me
interesting that this seems to perform as well as much heavier draw weight steel prod bows.
It is probably down to slightly longer powerstroke and better prod efficiency. Steel prods are very inefficient compared to wood prods. For example, I examined Joe Gibb's and Tod's Workshop's videos of 125 lb longbow that shot 112 joules and compared it to Todd's 960 lb crossbow that also shot around 110-115 joules. After doing some calculations factoring in difference in draw weight and powerstroke (estimate of 22 inches vs 6 inches), I calculated the efficiency of the wooden bow prod at ~200%, or double the efficiency of the steel prod.
But also less well than composite crossbows of a similar draw weight, but shorter limbs and a shorter powerstroke. It's clear that composite crossbows, when they could be afforded (yew crossbows were still in use in 15th century Burgundy), were preferred because of the overall efficiency.
Thank you for doing this reconstruction. In the 12th century, Anna Komnene wrote the following about Western European crossbows: "[I]n discharging them the string shoots them out with enormous violence and force, and whatever these darts chance to hit, they do not fall back, but they pierce through a shield, then cut through a heavy iron corselet and wing their way through and out at the other side. So violent and ineluctable is the discharge of arrows of this kind. Such an arrow has been known to pierce a bronze statue, and if it hits the wall of a very large town, the point of the arrow either protrudes on the inner side or it buries itself in the middle of the wall and is lost."
This particular crossbow only delivers about as much kinetic energy as a 60-80lb yew longbow, so either Komnene was exaggerating in the extreme or some crossbows from this period were much more powerful. Would this crossbow perform better if it were yew instead of maple?
Thank you for Annas description. I can't say witch wood will perform better but I think yew could be a "little bit" more poweful.
I had some problems with short yew prods for crossbows - the most of them broke....
Simplest solution would be much greater draw weight obviously.
Very strong men could span much heavier bow with this kind of movement, it's pretty powerful kinetic chain.
czcams.com/video/YJsT0udxLqc/video.html
czcams.com/video/73PYFDAQca8/video.html
czcams.com/video/M57Eb6VOp54/video.html
Now I don't know how would 500 pounds self bow behave, I suspect that perhaps not very well.
@@lscibor If Komnene's account is at all correct, I suspect the crossbows in question both had high draw weight & composite prods. Ancient Chinese crossbows commonly drew 350-400lbs according to period records, with some going higher. Those were spanned in similar fashion & had very long powerstrokes for crossbows.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 European maple? And will European Maple make a good longbow?
@@tonymaurice4157 Here its called mountain maple. I've never build a longbow with it but I think it will be work well.....
Very cool!
Would it be able to shoot a 80 gram Bolt?
of course, but the bolt speed will be very low....
Great video ! This crossbow can probably punch through gambeson and chainmail !
Well maybe it depend on the type of arrowhead and the quality of the armour
Dear Mr Bichler, I am writing a book on the longbow for Helion and Co. I wonder if you could help me with a query, as you obviously have very great expertise in this area. One question that has arisen is what would be the effective range of crossbowmen against unarmoured targets? I am assuming that they would have been using composite bows with a draw weight of perhaps 400lb 181kg .
Best wishes
Jonathan Davies
Hello, you can contact me via the following website: armbrustbauer.at/
Would sinew backing the bow add performance?
yes - it would...
Immensely so.
Could the prod be draw even further back? Or would you break? What's the maximum draw length you think you can draw with this prod?
The maximum draw length is nearly reached - because the bow got a lot of stress while the long time to the release.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 will ash make 200lb? And how is that maple holding up?
@@tonymaurice4157 As a flatbow it should be possible
@@tonymaurice4157don‘t try! Ash is quickly developing compression fractures
@Schechsi_handcraft Already did, made 100lb ash bow, holding up Great. Wide and flat, no cracks.
gibt es eigentlich eine faustregel um die maximale auszugslänge eines bogens zu bestimmen? Bei meinem Bogen habe ich die Bogenlänge halbiert und davon nochmal die länge des griffs, bzw die mitte des bogens das nicht "arbeitet" großzügig abgezogen. Bei einem 1,5m langen bogen mit 12cm griff + 3cm "sicherheitstoleranz"wäre also die max. Auzuslänge 60cm.
Ich verwende für meine eher kurzen Holzbögen den Faktor 1:3 und damit funktioniert es ganz gut.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 ja das ist noch sicherer, lieber ein bogen/armbrust das etwas schwächer ist als eines das bricht.
Bitte sehen Sie sich diesen Vers wegen seiner wichtigen Ursache an, er gibt ein besseres Verständnis dafür, wie Gläubige gehen sollten.
Offenbarung 12:17
„Und der Drache war zornig auf die Frau und zog aus, um mit dem Überrest ihres Samens Krieg zu führen, der die Gebote Gottes hält und das Zeugnis von Jesus Christus hat.“
Wow beatiful crossbow
Probably the most common bow, but rarely seen these days. Probably because the cost of making one would be as much as a more powerful bow with a steel prod. And it won't last as long either. But great to see it here! Thanks!
Nah steel prod would cost more with Medieval level metallurgy. It's the composite that costed a lot, since for example making 1250lb composite crossbow would need like 1kg of sinew fibers.
IMHO, Chinese did the right thing for making mass-produced composite crossbow with very long powerstroke.
@@cool06alt Indeed, and the Chinese one's did not need spanning devices and therefor had a higher rate of shot too
This is absolutely fantastic video and thank you so much for making both it and the replica. I thought that perhaps the yew crossbow might perform slightly better (I had a theory that the Berkhamstead bow might be the mysterious arbalest a duo pied), but this performance data is incredibly important information.
Wie historisch korrekt ist das Ahorn? War der Originalbogen auch aus Ahorn? Im video wird ja gsagt er basiert auf einem Original.
Ahorn ist, wie Ulme, ein sehr gutes Bogenholz. Das Vorbild für den Bogen ist allerdings aus Eibe. Hier ging es aber nur darum, eine funktionsfähige Holzbogenarmbrust auf Basis von Originaldaten zu bauen.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 verstehe. vielen lieben Dank für die Antwort
Thank you soo much for this awesome video Herr Bichler!!!
Great work! Is there any obstacles to increasing the powerstroke to increase the power of the crossbow? For example, could the trigger be placed near the rear of the crossbow? I've always wondered why Western Eurasian crossbows tended to use shorter powerstrokes while Eastern Eurasian crossbows tended to use much longer powerstrokes.
To increase the powestroke at this crossbow wouldn't be possible, because the wooden bow could get to much stress and will brake. For such work the bow have to be longer or need a sinew backing or a composite bow.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 I see, thank you!
i think it because by the medieval period, hand cannons already exisited so the demand for long powerstroke crossbows are less for all cultures. the long powerstroke crosbows are too bulky but was used in ancient history because gunpowder was not invented yet
@@medievalcrossbows7621 it is easy to increase powerstroke, but the bow needs to be very long wide but thin
nette burg.
wo ist das ?
Puchberg
Great video! These bows deserve more attention. Is the prod made of maple, or stock, or both? What is the draw length? Seems a bit longer than later stocks.
Thank you - the prod is made from maple (the stock is made from apple). Distance bow - nut: 380mm. Draw length approximately 270mm
@@medievalcrossbows7621 So, the power stroke is 270mm and the brace height is 110mm?
@@dan_the_dj Yes, you are right.
@Medieval Crossbows European Maple? Do you think ash could do the same thing? I made a yew one it split in the bow nock area.
Noch eine Frage: wie viel Zuggewicht schafft man mit dem spanngürtel?
In Kombination mit dem Steigbügel zwischen 140 und 160kg - ist natürlich von der Physiologie des Schützen abhängig ;-)
@@medievalcrossbows7621 das heist wenn ich meine so um die 120-130kg auslege sollte ich das schaffen XD wahrscheindlich spielt das eigene körpergewicht auch eine rolle,ich wiege 94kg. danke
@@guntherhuemer1767 Das sollte jedenfalls möglich sein, Der Gürtel sollte aber auch wirklich stabil sein und gut auf den Hüften aufliegen.
@@medievalcrossbows7621 kannst du ein video über den spangürtel machen? würd mi sehr freun!
@@guntherhuemer1767 Ist bereits in Planung :-)
Very nice bow!
Wie dick und wie breit ist der Bogen in der Mitte?
58x32mm
@@medievalcrossbows7621 wow, ein Wahnsinns teil! ☺ mich fasziniert ja dass ahorn soviel aushält. wie lange hast du daran gearbeitet?
@@guntherhuemer1767 Ja, ich war auch überrascht - vor allen von der Leistung. Nach dem groben Zurichten so an die 2 Tage (inkl. der Sehne)
@@medievalcrossbows7621 danke!
Nice work! And impressive max distance for a 125kg bow. I've seen a video of a ~500kg windlass bow shooting a comparable max distance. The bow had a much shorter draw length though.
Wonderful film! Beautiful bow. Love everything about this.
Excellent video; very thorough! Does the sear/interface of the trigger and roller nut have any reinforcement?
Thanks for sharing your love of the armbrust!
Thank you very much - no, they don't have a reforcement....
Thanks!
Later crossbows had a very short power stroke (10 cm or so...), I'm wondering : are they less accurate than early roman crossbows with much longer power strokes, or not ?
thanks for the comments I can confirm that - here a clip about my reconstruction from a roman crossbow: czcams.com/video/qZvY_puTa6M/video.html
i think accuracy is irrevelant to powerstroke. its efficeincy that is the correlation