We put a $17,500 Cartridge on a $1300 Technics. Have a Listen
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
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00:00 Intro
01:31 The SL-1500C
02:31 The Cartridge
04:11 The Record
04:42 Listening Time
12:14 Why?
12:58 Conclusions - Věda a technologie
Thanks for playing my record for people! it's selling well because both the music and sound are excellent! Bob Ludwig mastered this and Matthew Lutthans cut lacquers on the TML lathe and mastering system. 22 year old Caelan has a bright future (look him up) in concert and on record!
As an engineer with 40 years of live and recording experience, I can tell you ,your record has been done incredibly well,
Your performance is stellar. But the record makes me feel like I am in the room with the bass and piano.
Do you really mean Bob Ludwig 😂 ? Maybe Bernie G.
@@highfell1Bob mastered. Duke Markos recorded and mixed it per our feedback
@@BobJohnson-xo7hrI agree about the in the room sound. We worked very hard to achieve that
Guys, link to purchase the record in the video description. Let's support this great work so that it keeps on coming...
My wife showed me a car she was interested in, and I was like "Sheesh, I could buy a diamond-studded gold turn table cartrige for that price!"
haha you found one! Not sure what the purpose of the diamond is, wish the manufacturer would comment on it.
@@SkyFiAudio This might help you understand the purpose of the diamond and gold cartridge .
"@gteaz 0 seconds ago
@stuarttacey I've got £500 and £300 Grado's, £300 and £100 Sennheiser's headphones etc
I also have £20 Psyc that sound warmer and wider than the expensive headphones I have.
The other day I thought about upgrading my NAD M10 V2 (used as a pre amp to my forty year old New class A A/B Technics SU-V's) to a NAD M33 (used as a pre amp)
and then it clicked.
I'm only showing everyone how much money I have. Sound quality never improves no matter how much £££ I put into it."
Ok, never in my lifetime would I be able to afford a cart that expensive but I’m definitely off to buy that record 👌🏽
It would be interesting to hear the Ortofon 2M Black Cartridge on this turntable, for under $1000. That or a Japan's Hana cartridges for under $800.
$17,500 is a non-starter for many/almost everyone.
I gather the sweet spot for this price turntable is about $500 or so like a Sumiko Blue Point No. 3 or even the Songbird if you can swing a few more bucks. Yes the M black would be on that list.
I would say better than that black is the audio Technica at33sa that is a spectacular cart and not a lot of money
I have that exact setup, Ortofon 2M Black works awesome, and I’ve tried a few at the 800-1000 range
I think the Audio Technica range of carts offer better value for money and would be my choice.
I’ve got the 2M Black LVB250 running on my Technics SL-1210 MK2. It sounds awesome.
I am thankful for the opportunity to listen to such a fine piece of kit that I would never, ever be able to afford. That is a stunning recording made even more so by the gear involved.
Glad you liked it, thanks for watching.
primmiTiFF trä$h 4090 ti 5090 >:
It would be nice to hear a comparison with a lesser cartridge
That’s what I hoped for otherwise I have no idea if it sounds better than a 50£ cartridge
WTF...........no comparison!!
You cannot have a sound comparison here on CZcams. You have to be there to hear it.
Bullshit anyway . Human ear can't hear a difference.
They’ll never do that - it risks totally upending their world
I enjoyed this a lot. There are no set rules with audio, and experimenting with different components regardless of price, can sometimes give surprising results. For its price, that lower end Technics delivers beautiful performance. Of course listening on a set of headphones makes it a challenge to fully assess the sound quality, but to my ears, it sounded really good. Keep it real and keep it interesting. Great job!!
Yes send me your $17500 cartridges so I can test them.and write a great review
@@deangale4496 Dean!!! I would love to send it out to you for as long as you need, but your current financial statement shows you are only worthy of an Ortofon red. Sorry pal.
The beauty is in the ear of the listener... in which case nothing is silly.
Fine experiment, thanks for sharing. Regards,
It is hard to evaluate without a point of comparison. I would have liked to hear the music first from the default cartridge that Technics fits this out with. And then the gold coil unit. Having said that, it does sound sumptuously detailed and musical. Thanks for sharing!
It wouldn't matter if there was a comparison, you are still going to be listening to it thru CZcams compression, your DAC & amp, then your headphones or speakers. Demonstrations like these are utterly pointless. All we are hearing is our own equipment.
The little diamond on the front got me cackling 😅😅😅 that is hilarious. Great piano playing!
Thanks for showcasing the album!
Thanks, Fernando, love your channel. Record was awesome.
That was fun because where else can you see this done?! Thank you for confirming that the cartridge is the sweet spot in turntable setup.❤
Not silly. You made a good point and provided some valuable information for us consumers of audio and audio gear. Not many of us get a chance to run experiements like this. Thanks!
Is the Mytek being used as the phono preamp? And if so, are you running it with the internal SMPS or are you using an external 12v LPS/battery?
Classical and Jazz sounds great on everything!
Thanks anyway for the memories 😀
the church organ will sound impressive on the portable radio in the phone booth
Simply because they use acoustic instruments rather than electric/electronic (read : innatural) instruments.
It did sound magical. Thank you!
I have the Technics SL-100C (the SL-1500C w/o the phono preamp) with the HANA ML and it is the best combination for me for clean albums. I can quickly change out the cart with a MM cart for more scratchy records, but still sounds great.
Thanks for addressing the issue about how important the cartridge is.
This is an interesting video. It's unfortunate though that there's what sounds like a 60-HZ hum as soon as the stylus hits the record surface. I thought I was hearing things so I replayed the video more than once. And sure enough, as soon as that stylus hits the record surface there's that hum. I have no problems on my end with audio, it's apparently coming from somewhere in the audio chain in the demo gear. Amazing no one else has commented. But the cartridge is probably the most important transducer component next to the speakers. So you're correct in that the cartridge is very important and one should not skimp on its quality.
Additionally, and I don't want to seem negative (though likely that's the way it will sound [no pun intended]) although CZcams audio has improved significantly over the years, I don't see how any quality cartridge or audio gear can be properly assessed by playing audio via CZcams, but it's a good try. And it's interesting to hear such an uncommonly expensive cartridge sound so common. And did they embed a real diamond into it? And if they did, WHY... Seriously, WHY? Assuming I would want to spend that amount of cash on such a cartridge, why the hell would I want to pay for a diamond on my cartridge? Is there some sort of mystical properties of that diamond? Does it auto-correct tracking by some mysterious diamond rays? Of course not! I only want to see diamonds on my rings, and perhaps on my front teeth so that I have a glittering smile. So can I order one without the diamond? I mean that aught to knock off at least a couple thousand I would think, right? And since we're on the topic of gold, is that case on the cartridge gold also, and if it isn't why isn't it? I mean for $14K plus, I want gold on everything. Thanks none-the-less for this interesting video, I will likely consult with you for a decent turntable (but one without diamonds of course).
Ouch!
When people understand little about cartridge construction and materials, they ask snarky questions thinking they are being funny and wise but ultimately they just appear foolish. Which you do, though at least you have the basic point correct: the transducer is key. This does not mean a cartridge this costly is a good value proposition. That's for the buyer to decide, but you could take a few minutes and discover what goes into hand building this particular cartridge and the materials used. However, if you think the piano and bass reproduction here sound "common" I wonder what you were doing instead listening carefully. And yes, CZcams is not high resolution audio but it's good enough to hear basics, and it will show up bad audio as well as good, and comparisons between components also work well though that wasn't done here.
To @trackingangle929: Perhaps I sound foolish to you, but I think your own trackingangle is off based on the presumptions you have, so let me straighten out some of your misconceptions: First, I'm a professional electronics engineer (with a degree) with over 25 years of practical design experience that covers both tube and solid-state design. I'm quite familiar with what goes into a cartridge's design, a speaker driver design, an audio amp design, etc. I've designed custom audio amps and other gear, including speaker systems; a number of commercial electronic organs utilize my designs. In addition, I play oboe with instrumental groups and I'm a professional organist (church organ) and have given public recitals. Last but not least, I am an "audiophile" (a term I hate, which I will not go into here) as well. So not to blow my own horn, cumulatively, I have both a technical and musical background on these interrelated subject areas (music and electronics) and feel competent enough to comment on any areas related to these two subjects.
In terms of my comments, yes, I was throwing in some snarky humor - apparently it touched a chord.
As I did say, CZcams audio has come a long way over the years. I've listened to some excellent recorded performances via CZcams which had no objectionable compression (but all streamed audio has some), really low distortion, and that retained a significant percentage of dynamic range and timbre detail to render a high-quality, though not necessarily an "audiophile" quality, sound experience. These characteristics do make CZcams capable of rendering a high level of audio quality assuming it's in the source material to begin with and that nothing has interfered with it in the process of getting it to CZcams and that nothing additional alters it.
But to be perfectly blunt, the kind of quality differences we're talking about with a cartridge are often very subtle in most cases so just playing back audio, as was done in this video, is really not going to reveal as much unless anyone listening plays their own audio through CZcams as well and can make an A vs B comparison that way.
Unless you listen to your audio through CZcams the comparison is apples to oranges IMO. Such subtleties must be heard on the system you have and plan to use with such a cartridge, and that actually applies to any piece of audio gear.
Also to keep in mind is the room (unless you use hi-quality headphones) your system is in because your room is an integral component of your audio system. Now, does this mean that what we hear on this video is not useful? No, not at all. It can be useful to a very limited extent.
However, to throw another caveat into such a demonstration. Auditory memory is often flawed; Bell Labs has done lots of research into this area and of all the senses auditory memory is not as accurate as the sense of smell. However, my own personal experience with remembering how something sounds seems to hold up and I expect that's the case with many people and especially those that comment on this video. So I have to wonder a bit about the Bell Labs research.
But putting sensory accuracy aside, if this video approached the demo of the cartridge in terms of comparing it to another hi-end, but considerably less expensive, cartridge, the demo could have been more valuable IMO. But simply playing back a track with a particular cartridge doesn't reveal all that much because it's compared to what? It's like seeing an advertisement for a product or service that says "Save 50% now". Ok, but 50% over what? 50% of nothing is still nothing. But if you're paying $500 for something and you can save 50%, that's $250 - so "Save 50% now" is a meaningful statement. But at face value I can't tell how good this $14k cartridge may really be just by listening to it over CZcams. Can you? I don't think so. Now if the goal was to simply demo the cartridge with an entry level turntable to see what the results are, well that's OK, and IMO it revealed something which I mention next.
I can hear that as soon as the stylus hits the surface of the disk there's a hum. Now was the "entry level" Techniques turntable causing a mechanical missmatch between it and the incredible sensitivety of the cartridge, enough to pick up surface noise that exceeded the noise-floor of the cartridge (as well as the rest of the audio chain involved) and came through as the hum I heard? I don't know, but I do know it was there, and it was NOT an electrical ground quality (ground hum) issue because a ground hum would have been apparent before the stylus was set down on the record's surface. So something else was at play. Could this be the result of a mismatch between what was characterized as an "entry-level" turntable with a high-end cartridge? Perhaps. If it was a mismatch then the demo was revealing in that regard. For the hum issue it would again have been interesting to see if using the exact same cartridge in a higher-end turntable would have produced the same results. Since we only heard the audio using just the Techniques turntable and not compared with a more expensive (i.e. "better") turntable, I guess we'll never know. But I highly suspect that, as there are electrical mismatches in circuits, there might have been a mechanical specifications mismatch. Again, at this point it's speculation on my part. The only way to answer the hum question is to experiment with a different turntable.
As for the use of gold in cartridges: From an electrical standpoint, gold has certain advantages, but they do not contribute or carry over to differences in percieved audio - that's a common fallacy and misconception. Copper, so far, is the best economical conductor of electricity because it has the least resistance per cross-sectional area to electrons (if you are familiar with so-called electron flow) compared to gold. The advantage gold has, at least in this area, is it is more malleable than copper, is not subjet to surface oxidation as copper is, and is more easily wound than copper, particularly at the very tiny diameters of coil windings found in cartridges and headphones. This makes gold a reliable conductor for critical areas of electronics. Gold conductors, even though they are less of an ideal conductor compared to copper, are widely used to interconnect IC (Integrated Circuit) housing (the case of an Integrated Circuit chip) to the actual chip-carriers which contain actual circuitry and in such cases the length of these gold conductors is quite small, less than 1/4 inch or less, so resistivity of the cross-section of such conductors as compared to an equivalent copper conductor of the same length is inconsequential.
Feel free to ask or comment on any of the above.
UPDATE 3/16/24: One recent comment was they didn't see the sylus come down on the record surface as I pointed out (and that many others also heard). I just reviewed the video and yes indeed, the video apparently has been edited; The section where the stylus hits the surface of the record has been removed; You will now simply see the stylus playing the track.
I suspect SkyFi Audio found my comments (and those besides myself that also heard the hum) to be controversial and decided to eliminate the cause of the controversey.
Personally, I think it would have been more proper for SkyFi Audio to leave the video as-is, acknowledge the hum, then repost a new video using the same cartridge with the hum issue resolved. Or if the hum issue could not be resolved provide an explanation for why it was there. But apparently they've removed the offending section of the original video and in so doing they've taken away the opportunity for everyone to hear when the hum occurs - and in effect removing the controversey. Whether they further edited the audio part of the section of video where the stylus is playing the track of music using audio editing tools (to mitigate the original hum) I don't know. Why they chose to edit the video rather than leave it as-is and whether they further edited the section where the track plays with audio editing tools are questions only SkyFi Audio can answer.
@@DIYerGuyindeed, there was a hum, I noticed it immediately. I guess I'll join the snark club with you. lol
@@DIYerGuy BAM. That sir, is a high quality comment, and the rare one that makes scrolling through comment sections totally worth the time.
Some people have more money than sense. I'm perfectly happy with my AT-VM95ML and Ortofon Super OM40 on my Technics 1210MK2.
To a super wealthy person, $17k is peanuts. To a poor person $400 on a cartridge is insane. It's all relative. :-).
@@SkyFiAudio Spending stupid money for tiny increases in perceived sound quality just doesn't make sense to me. Diminishing returns. I personally wouldn't spend that sort of money on a cart even if i had it.
@@stuarttaceySee Stuart, sadly your comment is yet another bit of ignorance of the lower level music listeners - "I can't afford something so whoever does is an idiot" kind of attitude, completely negating that something might be better, but it cannot be since you cannot afford it. I've NEVER encountered people with expensive systems with such mindset, only the guys with Chi-Fi stuff and midrange gear who complain about expensive stuff. Not nice.
@@puciohenzap891 I've heard a high end setup costing thousands in a demo setting at a hifi store and it didn't blow me away as sounding much better than my own. There was a little more clarity but it didn't justify the ridiculous cost to me.
You don't have to be wealthy to know that spending $17,000 on a cartridge is dumb as hell@@SkyFiAudio
love Technics, the new coreless motors are fantastic
I didn't like the earlier direct-drives, but, to me, with the 1200G, it actually plays music.
Not really core-less, slot-less is more accurate for these motors. Behind the coils is a steel focus plate. Only the G and higher motors are truly core-less and to get decent torque they need two rows of magnets. For these motors to get decent torque, you need the steel focus plate. You can test for the presence of this plate by doing a power off rundown test. 2 minutes for a G, 15 seconds for this motor.
Great video. Amazing work. Hi I live in Prague and I could get a 1200GR or a 1500 for same price, which one is best sounding?
I think the bass sounds so smooth and the piano sounds natural. It's a great sounding record for sure and I think the Technics did a phenomenal job with the cartridge. The cartridge I could never afford. I have an older Technics SL-Q3 quartz lock turntable with an Ortofon 2M Black that sounds amazing to me. It's feeding through a Nakamichi TA-4A receiver and a pair of Urei 809A studio monitors. I just love the sound of it. Thank you for posting
Thats a nice setup
@@ColocasiaCorm thank you.
The more I hear these awesome turntables and cartridges the more I like streaming .
I love your videos and the recent 1200g was my favorite.....
Do you have plans to review the 1200gr2.....perhaps with an Ortofon 2M-Black?
Thanks!
I tell you now from someone who does electronics hifi is the biggest rip off going and believe me it is. 17,000 for a needle with the pops and crack to go with it. Play the cd version for less and get more detail. I repaired amps,cd players, etc and believe me these high ends use most of the same components to standard hifi. I seen cd players at £500 beat cd players at £5000 range. Put the stuff on an oscilloscope and your see it’s all a rip off. I’m not saying cheap is just as good, but you spend a reasonable amount of money then you got a good system. I repair lots of stuff and seen it all and it’s a joke what people pay for something that is no better than something less the half the price.
Actually, this pickup will produce LESS surface noise due to the extreme fine line contact stylus assembly. The line contact stylus scans a much longer area of the groove wall, so little bits of dust and gunk in the grooves scan at much lower volume. I owned the predecessor to this pickup, the Clearaudio Insider Wood Reference, which is absolutely the best pickup in my experience. A pickup like this demands to be used with the best turntable/arm combination. I was using an SME 20/SME V combination and it was ideal, the mass of the arm matched the compliance of the pickup perfectly. The turntable itself had the best isolation in my experience. The tracking force was higher than typical, which was compensated by the stylus shape, so record wear was not a problem. I'm completely out of analog at this point, but as I understand it the Goldfinger is a further refinement from the Insider. You also need an audio system that's capable of resolving the performance from a pickup like this.
My vinyl b a r e l y has any surface noise. Are you happy with listening CD’s. Does that make you happy? Well I am honestly happy with you. Then why the Effemm do you feel the urge to spend time coming here to put down how other people choose to enjoy their music. So you must not be that happy with your CD’s. I mean to feel the need to be here putting down other people ‘s choices. Or,,,,, or you simply are a bully . A bully is a coward, a fascist , an intolerant coward psychopath with a small dick. Thank you. Have a nice day.
You are absolutely right and I confirm everything you wrote... Just the other day I was at a Hi-fi repairer in my city here in Italy and he was repairing a McIntosh CD player of which I don't remember the model precisely but certainly of high range high...He showed me the reading mechanism...It was a very simple cheap Philips mechanism and the repairman himself told me that those devices have a great name but they are not eternal and as you rightly said they are built with standard components... THEY ARE LUXURY OBJECTS AND PRICES LIKE LUXURY OBJECTS.!!!
Amen!
@@alanl2550 👏🎼🎼🎼🏆🏆🏆👽😅😱😱🏆👏👏🎼🏆🍓🍓🍓🎼👏🎼🏆👏👏🎼🏆🤣🤣🤣🤣👏🎼🤣🤣🤣
I love that you come right out and explain that how important the cartridge is compared to almost everything else. Sidenote: I remember when you demoed the Denon VL12 Prime DJ turntable and many of the comments complained about the tonearm. The VL12 is a fantastic deck; bargain of the century. I don't care if the tonearm looks like it came off a Gemini; it sounds amazing even with a relatively cheap shibata or micro linear cart slapped on it.
I remember that turntable, quite a mediocre arm indeed but with a good cartridge it was impressive what it could do. Thanks for writing sir.
Was it as good or even better than a technics 1200 ? It's on my radar
For DJing it's better than the 1200 MK7, but if you can get an earlier 1200 that's still king. Out of all the newer direct drive DJ decks including the MK7, Reloop, Audio Technical, etc., Denon is the best, even though it's discontinued. (Denon still sells parts and they're surprisingly not too expensive.) The platter is excellent, the motor/speed stability locks better than any of the above. (And I believe it still has the highest torque?) Functionally the tonearm is fine, it's just not quite as pretty or rock solid as a 1200. There are only a few things I would improve; I wish the loud DENON DJ graphics could be peeled off; there's little bit of play in the pitch control at zero; and I'd love to see an upgraded tonearm. But I love mine. I lucked out and grabbed two for less than $400 each. Total steal.@@sbwlearning1372
I am just wondering If this will sound just as good on My Technics SL1210mk2 with the Nagaoka MP150 cart, through a Schiit Mani 2 (Phono Stage)?. I need to get a copy now. This cart Is brilliant sounds great. Thanks for sharing.
you proved your point, the turntables main job is not to influence the sound of the cartridge. good job.
I mean this is exactly what it should be:
a) Robust
b) Accurate, low Wow&Flutter
c) Good arm geometry and bearing
At what price point do we get beyond flawless?
I have a 2M Black on my SL1210G - I'm very happy with it, sounds great to me, but I can't lie I'd love to try a cartridge like the one you are using on the SL1510!!!
I'd be more interested in, as a beginner, whether it would be worth upgrading to a $1000 (AUD) cartridge on a $800 turntable that comes standard with a $300 cartridge? Namely the Ortofon 2M Black cartridge on a Fluance RT85, that usually has a 2M Blue. Or is it better to just upgrade the whole turntable to something around the $2k mark?
Yes, fun video but if you don’t play a comparison cartridge how are we supposed to evaluate?
Even through CZcams and my small office system, it sounds great. A large part of that is the quality of the recording. I may pick up that album.
Fascinating and a very good demonstration. I also own a Technics SP-25 broadcast turntable, which is basically a beefed up 1200 and partnered this with an Origin Live silver mark iv arm, but I'm now realising my cartridge selection (Ortofon 2M blue, Goldring E4 and Nagaoka MP110) are way below the quality that could be achieved. The sound of the Clearaudio Goldfinger was so good, especially in the bass, amazing it could perform so well on the Technics deck. I can't imagine spending that sort of money though, thanks for recommending the sweet spot of cartridge selection for each deck, very useful info. Enjoyed the video, now subscribed.
I like the cleaner look of the turntable, enjoyed giving the LP a listen, was considering buying it.
Are we hearing this through the Heresy's?
I felt the choice of music lacked. This was a mono recording and it would have been more interesting to get some sense of stereo image and depth using a well recorded album even as this is being heard via CZcams.
The important thing about a turntable is that the mechanical noise is minimal. And that it maintains a accurate speed. For example of the Technics sl 1200 Mark II has a rumble figure well below negative 80 decibels. It's significantly quieter than many other turntables. From there you have a good platform to build upon.
Hi. Do you know where I can find supplier for the control chip in the Technics SP-15? Thoughts? Thank you!
Thanks for posting this video. Obviously, that cartridge is way out of my league. I was surprised that you characterized the TT as entry but robust since it’s something much more than I would paid ever. I won’t comment on the sound quality but I’ll say there are still a little snap crackle and pop about two third into the track and make me feel awfully good on what I already have - Fluence RT-85 with DL-110 and tube phono pre. My day to day work horse is the old beater SL-J11D (my budget Technics) with Grado Black and a ChiFi tube pre. Just did a speed calibration yesterday. I am sure streaming from uTube doesn’t justify the caliber but again it’s so fun to listen to it and listen and admire from afar like checking out a Ferrari when I am driving a Subi. Thanks again!😂. I do like to see the cartridges mounted on a Marantz TT 15S1 ‘cause that is one of the most aesthetically pleasing gear to me. Cheers!
I'm glad you recognize this video is intended for entertainment more than critical listening. You've assembled a really nice rig as described above I bet it sounds stellar. Agreed the 15s1 is a good looking table and well made.
What was the humming noise from when put the cartridge down in the record groove ? Inquiring minding would like to know ?
@@robertthurston6858I wondered that too.
how much should I spend if I find sony t n 77 es?, I hope you have done a video on that?
what i want to know is what kind of headphones are those next to the turntable ? 😊
You are correct. When the needle drops there is INDEED a 60 cycle hum.
You are correct. You Tube although a great way for basic visual content is very lacking in audio fidelity.
There was hum before the needle dropped, and the bass sounds bloated. What mics and and audio interface did you use for the recording?
Did you fail to also notice that the video is MONO?
NO HUM UNTIL THE NEEDLE HITS THE RECORD WHAT IS EVERYBODY DEAF?
I wish you did a comparison to something like an Ortofon black. It would help to highlight how special this cartridge is.
Amazing quality. Sounds like a Live show in front of me
It has extremely detailed sound with that cartridge
Amazing results
What was that hum at start of the music? Something with the capture setup? For that price, at least it should be noise and hum free (except for the usual noise from the record itself). And trying to get an idea of that setup over CZcams compressed audio...
The hum is my fault, so hard to get an analogue signal into a computer without picking up hum. Spent a bunch of time sorting it out, thats the best I could do. It was picking up all sorts of digital iterfearance so the only option was to have a bit of hum
Yeah, I noticed the hum too. Are you sure it wasn't a grounding issue with the turntable/phono pre? Ground loops are a pernicious problem when connecting chains of gear.
There are products that claim to help but I haven't tried anything yet.
I tried every possible combination of grounding. This was the best I could get without inducing a bunch of digital noise. It's quite a tricky setup. Besides this is CZcams, let's not get too crazy :-).
I don't hear $17,500.00 I hear $400.00
Does that mean you're not interested in buying it? :-). Thanks for writing sir! Stay in touch.
😂
Hey 4vinyl sound, I think you hear 💩.
@@jimrockford3662 Are you saying this $17500 cartridge sounds like poop I'm listening to. I don't think it's that bad maybe worth $400 worth of sound quality.
@@jimrockford3662 If you think that sound is worth more than $17000 then you are really a complete imbecile. And a sucker with a big sign on your forehead.
This was really a good demo idea and the recommendations at the end of the video makes absolute sense. I have been playing turntables, tonearms and cartridges for the last 50 years, and have concluded there is no universal combination. The cartridge-turntable-tonearm combination is an endless abyss of experimentation and changes with maturity. I mainly listen to Rock, Jazz and Classical and my preference for a singular c-t-t is nowhere near an end. The thing to remember here is to set up any cartridge the best that you can and if you can't, PAY SOMEBODY to do it for you. The turntable makes the least difference but the cartridge and tonearm combination is most important as that's where the real adjustments become critical, and can make an inexpensive cartridge sound better than one costing ten times it's price. As an aside, spend the money on the best record cleaning system you can afford, because that's where it all begins and provides the ultimate satisfaction. Anyway that was an excellent record and just note how CLEAN it was. Bob Ludwig has retired ... I already miss him.
Another great video...Thanks for doing this one, Fernando! I recently took delivery of a NIB Technics SL-1210GAE 55th Anniversary model...never thought I'd find one at a retail location, but lucked out and snatched it up right away. I was torn between the GAE and VPI's HW-40 direct drive, but I went with the Technics because of the swappable headshells...makes cartridge swapping fun and easy! I think that when we look at whether or not a cartridge is "overkill", rather than dwell on affordability (which is entirely objective as it depends on what the purchaser is comfortable with paying), one has to take into account the music we are playing through the cartridge. For example, I have several MM and MC cartridges...at various price points...and I find that some genres of music and the quality of recording or pressing dictates which cartridge I prefer. Obviously, critical listening on a great pressing matches great on a high-end MC, but I've found that the same MC makes a poorly pressed/recorded record sound worse...for those, a quality MM that still tracks and presents well is better, actually offering a sound that is more pleasing where the MC might come across as too "clinical". Just my $0.02 worth...
Glad you enjoy your SL12010GAE. It's a gorgous machine. I find interesting that you change your cartridge around based on the type of music, that the advantage of the SL-1200 that many overlook. Can you share which cartridge you like for which genre?
@@SkyFiAudio Right now, my favorite MC is my Koetsu Black Goldline. This is the finest cartridge I've ever owned in terms of accuracy, resolution, clarity and separation...and because of this, I tend to use it only on my best vinyl, think of the Analogue Productions pressings of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" or Steely Dan's "Aja". Because these albums are so well recorded, and the pressings are of such high-quality, the Koetsu's revealing nature is put to good use. However, with any material that's not recorded well or pressed poorly, the Koetsu comes off as sterile, too analytical and maybe even "harsh". Here, I prefer my MM cartridges, which don't so much "mask" imperfections, but rather make them far less noticeable. Also, a great vintage MM like a Shure M97xE (mine still has its original stylus), simply sounds better on most of my rock and pop records. It's hard to beat a really good MM for where the emphasis on the music's punch and drive are the main focus, think Led Zepplin, The Who, Daft Punk, etc. For me, it's almost as if my MC carts are too "polite" to rock out...if you know what I mean.
"...lucked out..." Don't you mean 'lucked-in' (unless you have buyer's remorse)? ps I am aware that in certain parts of the world meanings are reversed absolutely.
@wayoutofbounds - Thanks for the insight and would be great to know what other cartridges you’ve had when citing the Koetsu as the finest you’ve owned.
@@wayoutofbounds I've just listened to a new pressing of the black album by Metallica and my original copy of caress of steel by Rush Also fat of the land by the Prodigy .
I used a gold ring elite MC through a Jim Hagerman trumpet MC phono stage which is all valves ( tubes to the Americans)
I have all the punch and power and bass drive I'll ever need. Got around 10 cartridges. Since the Hagerman arrived I've sold all my mm except for a nagaoka mp150 which I essentially used to clean dirty records.
The gold ring is only around 500 new
The valves add magic
Very nice!
The sound is very natural, and palpable. Maybe I missed your mention of it…if you don’t mind, what is the rest of the system?
If you break the cantilever can you send it back for repair?🥺😫
Hey Fernando, still digging my LP 12 with the Starling Cartridge (by the way) ironic that I’m listening to this video through the speaker of my iPad….gonna have to watch again on my Yamaha home theatre…Btw, I have the Technics SL 1300, what cart would you recommend For this one Ortofon Black maybe?
Hey mate, glad you're still using it, great table. Yes Ortofon Black or Sumiko Blue Point No. 3.
Thanks , I’ll give em a try
Do you guys have a Macintosh 2301 amplifier? And if so do you know what kind of tubes are as I have learned the stocktubes are terrible JJ's
It is not silly it does what a turntable should. The cartridge will do what it's supposed too. Great video!🎉🎉🎉🎉
The thing is most people who can throw that kind of money at cartridge in this hobby have a very expensive table as will. Cheers again for another great video.
Do they need a gold body and diamond?
The turntable does make a difference. At home I auditioned both a 1200 GR and a G with the same cartridge and headshell. The G sounded noticeably better and was the one I bought. I have upgraded the cartridge to something on the $1300 range (sold manufacturer direct only so well beyond a $1800 cartridge) and it sounds stunning.
I have the Technics 1500c in silver with 2m blue. Its a great looking , built & sounding for the price
What a great experience, my father always told me your advice about the importance of the cartridge and phonostage while the turntable itself just needs to be accurate (he was a big fan of Edgar Villchur and his AR XA turntable). Nevertheless, I went on this big journey, spending a lot of money, and at the end of it all, learnt my lesson. Thanks for endorsing this philosophy which will guide others not to make the same mistake that I made.
Glad you got some value out of this Ruben.
I think LP preparation would make a difference first. I could hear static like there was too much gain from an adjustable preamp. A few wipes with carbon fiber brush and an anti static padded velour brush would help. Was this straight preamp or was a step up transformer used? Also, platter mat material and use of a record weight could make a difference. I like a combo where the cartridge price is equal to that of the table. The lowest I would go is 50% of the table price. As far as the LP recording I think it was excellent, great detail!
hola Fer, never have felt the 'urge' of going beyond, say, a Nagaoka 500. But I do now wonder if instead of breaking the bank for a new TT or other things in the chain, well, to follow your advice and really find the best MM one I can find. Pondering pondering pondering
proud owner off a 1973 sl1200 ran it with shure v15 and stanton 681eee back then dealer net was around 300 canadian dollars. cartridges were around 50 northern pesos..
I still run Stanton 681eee can't find better for less!
I've had a 681 and a V15-III but couldn't stand them, the IGD was killing when running on a hi end headphone system. The more fancy-schmancy tips like microline or Shibata were a godsend.
I'll listen to that.....forever!!! I would be forever happy playing with that on my $350 turntable!!!
How do you protect the stylus?
Hola Fernando, thanx for the experience. Sure we are not able to fully hear the potential of your set up. But I can tell its a helluva sound already on YT! However, this Clearaudio cart on a modified 1200G (tonearm, feet…) must be elevation to heaven.
Very unique demo……waaaay over the top cartridge, but probably elevated the tables ability to the max. Have a Rega P9 running Clearaudio Maestro MM cartridge and really enjoy it. My vintage Luxman PD 272 has a Shure V15 cartridge Awesome fun. Love this hobby
no idea...you have second TT right there. how does that LP sound with the suggested Ortofon Black?
Sorry I dont have a Black to test.
Nice smooth creamy sound. Quiet record surface....what does this sound like on a cart that most people are going to use??
The sound was great ! I did hear a low-level 60Hz hum before the stylus hit the music's beginning . I agree with your price ratio , but wouldn't rule out a One to one turntable / cartridge cost .
WRONG TRY AGAIN!
FINALLY! Someone thinks the way I think and does the experiment I have been waiting for. I have always thought it's ALL ABOUT THE CART and to a lesser extent the synergy between the cart and arm.
It was quite pleasant , maybe I'll hit a audio show to hear one live someday !!!👍👍
I once put a set of MISSION 700 Loud Speakers on a cheap Silver branded basic HI-FI home stereo system...the results were outstanding.
Great sound with great price......I love it but i cannot afford to have one
@SkyFiAudio
Fernando, other than introducing your viewers to great new music that they might not have been aware of otherwise, I'm struggling to understand the usefulness or goal of this video???
Side note: At the beginning of the video did you address your audience and viewers as, "Hey CHANNEL..."?
1. As several others noted, and you confirmed in a comment, there was a consistently audible low-level mechanical hum/vibration during playback of the vinyl (not an Electrical "60Hz hum"/ground loop, etc.).
2. Either your Capture of the audio or the Upload to CZcams was in MONO! :/ I would be interested to know what your signal chain was for this particular "vinyl rip"? Was it the phono preamp output from the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge fed into the line-level inputs of the cheap $69 M-Audio M-Track Duo USB audio interface??? :/
3. The background noise floor as well as the vinyl surface noise of this brand new vinyl LP were both quite high and distracting. :(
4. After the end of the playback of the track, you asked your viewers/listeners, "...did you hear a difference?" However, you didn't provide any type of REFERENCE for comparison. So, a "difference" as compared to WHAT? Without a Reference, there is no baseline for comparison in order to determine "a difference". You also provided no details as to the signal chain that was used to capture this vinyl rip, so again, it's impossible for your listeners to derive any type of apples-to-apples differences or a real-world comparison.
I perform my own digital vinyl rips using very modest gear from both "normal" and high-quality vinyl pressings that IMO sound vastly superior to this example, even if I output or convert the lossless 24/96 WAV files as 192kbps MP3 or AAC to approximate CZcams's Lossy compression codec.
In reference to # 3 above, although I'm an avid vinyl enthusiast, I'd much rather listen to this particular recording in its native 24/96 digital recording format that was used to cut the lacquer for the vinyl release. ;)
And while I am in full agreement that the cartridge/stylus and its proper setup/tracking is THE most important element of any turntable as it is the direct electromechanical interface between you and the music (just as the quality of the microphones & microphone preamps that are used to capture the original recording, as well as the loudspeakers & acoustic environment that are used to listen to the playback of the recording), IMPO, this cart needs A MUCH LARGER DIAMOND mounted to its forehead in order for it to be worth that asking price. :-P
The addition of the diamond for purely aesthetic/cosmetic purposes IMO is simply ridiculous and "cheesy" for lack of a better word. The use of the gold housing also seem dubious, though it may provide better anti-resonance/damping properties from external acoustic sources. I haven't read the "white paper" for this cartridge, so IDK.
FWIW, my advice when trying to showcase the Sound Quality or any DIFFERENCES in the perceived audio quality of any type of component(s) are to:
# 1. Capture the audio as accurately as possible. I would look into acquiring a Tascam DA-3000 mastering recorder in order to capture the output directly from your best phono preamp using 24-bit PCM or DSD if preferred. They can be found on eBay at reasonable prices. FYI, this is what reknowned recording and mastering engineer Kevin Gray uses for digital masters/archiving, including being used as the playback source to record cutting lathes.
# 2. Provide the original Digital File, or at least some other cartridge or component as a comparative REFERENCE to what you are trying to showcase.
# 3. Upload all of the original captured lossless files for download by your viewers/listeners via a cloud storage file server for direct comparison in their own systems in order to eliminate the Lossy compression/artifacts/limitations of listening over CZcams (preferably using Foobar2000 to play all of the lossless files randomly via its companion "A/B/X Comparator" Plugin).
# 4. Upload and provide all of the different files as only being labelled as "A", "B", "C", etcetera, so none of your viewers/listeners know which file they are listening to...until you reveal which was which at a predetermined later date, so that it is a completely 100% UNSIGHTED listening test, a.k.a. "blind test" which eliminates all expectation and confirmation bias due to price, brand prestige, personal preference/association, etc.
Refer to:
"Audio Musings by Sean Olive - The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests" (sean.olive.blogspot.2009.04)
Niiiiiiiiiiiice Music! Thank you for the introduction. I love it. My soul is healing as I listen to it....right?!!!! Is this recording available on iTunes (aka apple music)...I sold my turntables years ago and I buy my music on iTunes to DJ events. This music would be great to play during cocktail hour or dinner. So nice is it!
I'm listening on my phone. It sounds really good!
Would this work on my Crossley Voyager vinyls player?
Not without the adapter kit for a paltry sum of $2500.00.
An A/B comparison would have been nice but it sounded fantastic
Simply AMAZING!
How hard can you make that bass pop up?
I hear the rip in mono? Was the LP recorded in mono? The intro with Fernando speaking is normal stereo.
Not sure what you mean, I recorded myself in mono and the record on stereo. Must be the internet getting in the way. Cheers. sir.
@@SkyFiAudioThe music definitely sounds mono Fernando, especially when you hear the pops/clicks exactly in the middle.
love this experiment
How long does it last?
Pimp my Technics...🙂
Joking apart...right up there with the very best bass I've ever heard on CZcams
Hey mate, thanks for the feedback, glad you liked it.
I really appreciate you doing this. It was the type of thing I fantasized about, but figured I'd never get to try. (Thanks for trying it for me!)
Unsurprisingly, the cartridge does sound very good. It may the best reproduction of vinyl I've ever heard.
Having said that, while the frequency response seems balanced and the groove distortion seems non-existent, event 24k gold can't get rid of the analog noise floor, vinyl surface noise, and various pops and clicks inevitably heard in this and every other record ever manufactured.
As good as this was, it made me want to hear this recording on CD, more than anything. Get rid of the extraneous noise, and put me right in the middle of the band, that's what I want.
Still, this was a fascinating listen. I was unaware of turntable rumble if there was any (I assume it has a number, just likely low). The bass was tight and detailed all the way down while the highs were clean and not once ever strident. As I mentioned earlier, there was no indication of distortion from the needle trying to track the groove.
I suppose if you have $17.5 k burning a hole in your pocket, this would be the ultimate record experience! I do continue to be amazed at the audio we can pull out of the grooves, and there are some recordings that are simply never going to make it into the digital era. My dad's favorite album, "Fields In Clover" by Herbie Fields, the master tapes have apparently been lost and all we have left is what we can extract from vinyl pressed in the 1950s.
(Now I'm wondering if I'd hear any improvements on ultra-expensive turntables. They might be able to improve the rumble, but I'm already unaware of rumble. They might improve the wow and flutter, but this already seems rock-sold. What would be the benefits, to the ear, of stepping up to a comparable table for this cartridge?)
Hey Fernando. That was an interesting experiment. My only suggestion would be to play a trio: piano bass and drums. The drums, with cymbals, would further reveal the performance of the Goldfinger cartridge on the Technics.
What was the price of the album you played? Maybe $15?
The 1500c has a great arm and motor plus metal plinth top. Extremely solid.
A $500.00 cartridge with a $17,000.00 diamond attatched to it must sound amazing.
Good video its interesting to see a setup this far from the norm ans hear the results, I have been using MC cartridges for over 30 years. I have yet to hear a MM cart with the detail, air, and image of a MC. I figure that the sound comes from the cart, I usually go for about 50/50 on cart vs table price. Three years ago I bought a VPI Cliftwood and sumiko bluepoint 3 nude low output cart. The sound destroyed the Grado green. Best bang for my money.
How do the justify the price?
Great and amazing sound.
I have this turntable paired with the Audio Technica AT-OC9X special line cartridge. At $700 will be the most I spend on this table and it sounds wonderful.
That cartridge sounds amazing (at least through a pair of Shure SRH 840 headphones). It is substantially out of my price range though. Rufus Reid is awesome, and I will be checking his work out more after hearing this!
The main sound difference I have found on where the magic happens is a moving coil Phono cartridge and the Phono preamp.
You don't have to spend thousands of dollars to have high quality sound, because the returs will be minimal to none.
It also depends on the synergy of your equipment. I heard my cousin's friend system, consisting of an old Sherwood S-8000 tube receiver, a pair of Quads 57, a REL T/7x Subwoofer, a Fluance turntable with a Signet Moving coil cartridge and a Parasound Zphono preamp and it sounded to me like what perfection suppose to sound for my ears. The thing is that I don't know how good it would sound on my living room, as it all comes to synergy.
Omg! The Technics platter has wobbling! Like most of any new Technics made today! 😁
Someone else already pointed out the 60hz hum. I just wanted to add though, this record is supposed to be stereo. Your sound sample however, sounds like a mono fold-down. There is zero separation.
Why didn’t you run some tests by digitizing the signal using the expensive and the stock cartridge and then see if there is any actual difference in frequency response, dynamic range and signal to noise ratio ? You can do meaningful tests even in Audacity if you want.