More power? Or Just Noise?
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 01. 2022
- Testing some different types of day header pipes.
See if they actually make more power? or are they all bark?
Have a few different models to try out.
visit my website for porting and product info worksaws.com/
visit my Facebook for more dyno graphs and saw builds.
/ hmwfllc
My neighbor used to complain about noise, I should put that trumpet muffler on, that’ll show him :-))
Too many guys are obssessed with tuning engines & not chains these days. The biggest performance gain that can be had with bigger saws is how well the chain cuts. And trust me, it takes a lot of messing around & searching to start making magic. But when you do discover that ideal grind for whatever wood you're in, you'll know it. I was lucky to be able to study several old timers who had mastered the square ground chisel bit.
When my Dad would file the chain it was like butter
That much power by only a diff exhaust??? CHEESE AND RICE!!! I very much appreciate what you do for the power saw community brother!!
PLEASE test a stock can with dual port AND stock can with enlarged factory outlet 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
i did a copy of iron horses pipe, the 90 degree style and it definitely pulled better and longer but the noise was a bit much after awhile, however with a good set of muffs (supposed to wear em anyway) it was worth it to me because the single biggest advantage was a good one, it got lots of heat out and ran cleaner. The saw now doesn't get anywhere near as hot under load as it did with the stock muffler and that has to be a good thing for longevity. There was less carbon build up as well.
Basically same here, except anodized aluminum and oval side pipe
Try putting two of the megaphone style you made together with the big ends,in theory one would think it would work like the expansion chamber... like to see the results
I’m so appreciative of you doing these I have tried so many different pipes
thanks for all you do Joe.
Them ironhorse style seem to work really well
Another great video Joe!
Very interesting Joe! Thanks for the comparison!😁
Read my mind lol was making myself a pipe for my 372 today and look what the topic was today! Great videos! Keep them coming!
Man!!! I really appreciate you doing these, kinda wanted to ask but I knew how much work it would take. Thanks for removing the subjective. Best damn video out there on pipes.
Awesome, well done sir. Thank you. Looking forward to your next video.
thank you for making these video's.
every video is an education!
i am sure you already have viewers who are building faster saws because of the knowledge you have shared.
Thank you for watching.
Sure hope this can help others build a better saw. That is the goal.
That's a crazy hp increase. Nice work!!
Awesome! Good interpretation of the data👌
Enjoyed it. Keep'em coming. 👍
man you must really love your job! it must be nice to do something you really, really enjoy doing everyday
Great stuff there really shows what goes on on different types of header pipes clears up a lot of mystery that's floating around on the tube keep up the work you're doing an awesome job and I'm hoping you ignore all the haters they just don't got the the skill and talent that you have!!!!!
That puts that debate to bed then 👍🏻 Great content man.
You are the veritable and venerable Saw Doc.
Thanks for the great content very educational
it would be interesting to see just a straight pipe in different lengths. Love the dyno videos . Victor from Sweden
great idea for this video.....keep them coming
Great comparison video. I wish you tested a Rippa dual port muffler. I put one on my saw and it was amazing.
Neat to see. I've mostly used opened up stock mufflers but might have to try a straight curved pipe, seems like small difference in length makes big change were the saw could make power
Love your content!
Awesome video.
I like your unbiased evaluation of the mufflers. Not hating on one particular brand, and let's face it we all have our favorite and I'm sure you do to but your not trying to rm it down people's throat. A true benefit to you tube.
Thank you.
I try and keep things neutral. I generally don't have favorites.
Great comparison thank u
I like the Ironhorse pipe. Cheers
New sub, enjoying your content! Looking forward to the stock muffler mod tests! 👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏
Love this one. Very interesting. 👌
Thank you DJ.
Another very interesting video!
Great work! 🤝🤝🤝
Thank you!
Muffler mods are so effective and easy. Interesting to see what the differences are.
Another great video!!!!
Thank you
You are the man!
Great video
Nice work
Id like to see a dyno video comparing the typical muffler cover options like the barkbox, striaght shot type but with the factory outlet on the main muffler housing plugged using thin metal in place of the spark screen. Then reinstall the screen and run the dyno again and see what this does to the low end of the saw.
nice well done
Great vid, Joe. Very interesting. Can't wait for stock can test, I reckon a stock can with pipe/s will make the most power is my thinking. Large volume to small🤷♂️. 👌
Will be fun to see.
Great work! Looking forward to a dyno review of standard mufflers with various mods.
Hope to have them all gathered up soon.
Nice one. No doubt your videos must take a lot of work. Your thoughtful approach is most appreciated.
Subscribed&Liked, I'm OCD Re mufflers-in-2strokes and 660's are my platform (am "a Tree Co" and use my 2511 like 95% of the time on-job, lol, but only experiment w/ my 660's), I'm like a kid on xmas not only getting this video but also that you say you *did* go and do a 'box type comparison' because that was one-of my biggest thoughts the whole video, "Where is the 'usual muff-modded box-type'?", felt odd not having it there so we could see not only that the pipes are better than an EPA-compliant OEM, but seeing a non-EPA-compliant OEM-muff-box would've been cool (though obviously it introduces the Q of "what, specifically, is a 'usual muff mod'?", but I'd say it's fair to simply enlarge that main OEM outlet on clutch-side rear upper of muffler and leave it like 50-75% larger hole than stock-spec, should negate "EPA&noise concerns" because the OEM exit-portage totals well-under 70% of the exhaust-flanging which is the upper limit for muffler-exit so far as I understand it) So eager to see the box-type comparisons, not only to compare to my own but because I just got a new one yesterday that I need to build for my just-finished "felling saw" build (99/81/125 squishing 24.25thou big bore 56mm with no freeport about 1.25mm from-freeport, ported piston / gearing/ignition advancement/etc) and I need something else it is too much pressure in that box/muffler with this build & my current exit ports, I am honestly thinking the best is going to actually be a combination IE a muffler like the 660s where it allows the charge/pulse to "bloom" beautifully and 'cyclone/swirl' back at the flange area, exiting via a port whose location *forces* the exit stream to "pass" the flange, this keeps a "cyclone effect" which is basically all/the best we can hope for with our lil mufflers, I'm betting that if you took the 660 can, seal-up all the outlets on it excepting the 1 largest OEM one, and have a pipe that originates there, instead of bolting to the flange, *that* would be the best because the can effectively becomes the 'expansion chamber' with the attached exit-piping being its "baffle cone/convergence cone and bleeder tube/exit" (ideally it'd be a tube that was like 0.75"sq surface at its entrance from muff and at its exit to atmosphere, but had a bulge in-between, like if the tube were 3" long the first & third inches could be 0.75" tubing and the central would be 1" tubing...obviously it needs to bend, am guessing it's obvious I don't personally weld :P ) So with the greatest respect for this video, I'm curious:
- do you think the results would've changed, radically, if you (or any of the pipe builders) had done all 3 builds? I ask because the comparison compares 3 forms of pipe-muffler but, to be a good comparison, each type should be "a good representation" of its style...I think pipe #3 has the best "logic" behind it, yet it didn't win, and my immediate thought is "Of course #2/the longest/largest-bodied pipe wins, it's closer to real-piping and our mufflers' weakness is how far from 'real piping' our exhaust systems are!
- Do you think your megaphone was a bit too large? Perhaps even too quickly-expanding (ie having smaller, more frequent increases in angle to really coax a "smoothly enlarging exhaust-pulse-front")
Thanks so much for making such awesome content, eager to go check what else you've got posted, will say that I am a bit confused that you seem to say "straight-dump muffs like Egan/Bark Box already have #'s that speak for htemselves", I mean honestly you can game numbers all day and there's simply no logic behind say the Egan plate where it's quite literally creating a >1" exit portal dead center with the exhaust pulse, that is as-if the reality were "no muffler is ideal" but that is not the case, and so many do sadly fall prey to that thinking because un-choking OEM, EPA-influenced mufflers does work so frequently (although so often it DOESN'T work and people falsely believe it does, as I am sure you know there is power to be gained by opening-up a restrictive exit towards "its optimum" but, if you surpass that optimum, performance nose-dives quickly, being 5% past optimum is far worse than being 10%+ below it!
Awesome what about the back pressure panic 👍
Stock style mufflers!!! I’ll be looking forward to that episode.... always great content always thumbs up
Same here, put the dual port front cover without cage inside on and see what that does for power
Very nice, great collection of data
Add a whistle intake into the muffler close to the cylinder. It evens out the gas pulsations in the muffler.
Nice I never would have thought an open pipe would have made more tq I tend to under muffler alot of saws
It will be fun testing the box style mufflers see who,what where and why lol
Amazing findings! I'm eager to see what an opened up stock can will do, as they're obviously much more practical. The noise, your poor ears! 🤯
I’m gonna need one of them horns😎
@Indiana Doug Be fun to play with wouldn't it. I'm really interested in seeing how the stock cans will, as it's the most practical and easiest.
Yeah, surprised he didn't test a dual port otherwise stock muffler.
VERY nice thanks Joe. It's nice to see that some of the very simple exhausts actually do make some good power gains. What was your thoughts on the noise levels. They all seemed relatively uniform except for the megaphone but it's impossible to tell on a video.
They are all very loud. Other than the 90* pipe p3, that one is probably the least noise.
I would like to see some DIY pipes for A vintage HomeLite xl 12 series saws being a collect done on bone stock saw for the power and torque gains if possible
I did an expansion chamber and hid it in a regular muffler with enlarged vent on the muffler body.
I am interested in the expansion chamber type those always give u the biggest widest gains. Another alternative is to turbo charge it not hard to produce a tiny turbo to go on these would really power torque these little motors up. I'd love to help design something be fun to have a little saw putting out 100 horse power Wich these are capable of look at the junior drag cars check the dyno numbers
Awesome content Joe. The 90deg is already better than stock across the board and looks like it could be great for milling. Could you re-run that one with a few different outlet sizes to see what adjusting back pressure does to the hp torque?
It is getting sent back to its builder to try some modifications. We will see what he comes up with.
Acàully with a two stroke or deisel. It's not eliminating the muffler that makes the difference. If you ad a expansion chamber like a dirtbikemakes a huge difference. The expansion chamber pulls more air into the cylinder just through natural convection try doing a tuned type pipe and watch the dyno difference u could likely come up with something that people would buy. Just a thought
Very good comparison. I wish you would included a stock pipe that's been drilled out. Thanks
Stock type mufflers and outlets will get its own video
Iv wondered about a gutted stock pipe ( baffles removed) but nice work mate cheers
That will be in the "box" muffler video.
.8 hp gain on the 660 with factory dual port iirc
Should try the bark box out on the 660 vs stock as well. Seems like that and a simple nipple pipe on the stock cover is the only ones that were missing
When you install WCS bark box it improves when you gut the baffle on the inside of stock muffler
I gotta get me one of them megaphones, the neighbors will love me😎
@dynojoemods2764 , you are mentioning testing the "stock" mufflers. can you please also try to play with the volume of the stock ones and run one with a spacer between the housing and the cover? Weld a spacer in there of 1/4" then anther one of 1/4 (=1/2) after the first run and see how they produce ...?
Nice comparison between the different style pipes. Just a thought I wonder if the black 90 degree muffler could be tuned. Longer or shorter on the big pipe after the intersection with the smaller one? Just a thought
Yes, they all could be tuned. What works for one engine may not work at all on the others. Might have to try a video showing different setups of the same pipe
the difference in decibels would be good to see.
I like the iron horse style because it adds power and blows the chips away from my face
Can I make a muffler for you to send in? If your going to use that 660 I can make any style you need. I love this stuff. Great video as usual Joe!
Send me a message/email. I'm sure we can fit it in somewhere.
Id like to do the same
wish you had tested the stock muffler with a 2nd port added.
Very interesting
Holy shit pipe 1 woke that thing up quick
Really would have liked to see Samish Saw Works (Benwa on ope) sq tube twin horn style. He has a vid of it making good power on a stock 50 IIRC.
Those would be fun to try out sometime.
My homelite 925 has a rotten muffler and it exits straight down and the smoke boils back up in your face I built one out of 1,1/2 to 2 ,1/4 with forward exit but it was to heavy so I am going to go 1,1/2 to a tomato sauce can then forward exit 1,1/2 I think I will tig it with silicone bronze if I can weld it it should be light weight I guess I'll see if it can be done by the way that comparison was super cool thanks Joe .
Give it a try a lighter muffler don't sound bad at all
I know nothing but have a Stihl 032 that is my "toy" saw. Looking at a bunch of these interesting pipes, looking at expansion chambers, and looking at my stock muffler, I wonder. OK, stock muffler innards, a length of smallish pipe into a big box, out a small outlet. Expansion chamber, length of pipe into a big chamber and out a small outlet. Could it be that my dead stock muffler is as good as it gets?
You should do a comparison of the west coast bark box and the egan straight shot on the 362,661,462,500i,and 400 just to see what preforms best
The WCS bark box out performs the Egan straight shot everyday of the week
The performance on those 2 is very close. I believe both have graphs posted of dyno runs for each product. Pick whichever one you like best.
@@itiswhatitis3839 neither one will touch a tuned tube exhaust 😀
@@fabzacres-blackcat of course not it’s totally different measurements and design
@@itiswhatitis3839 got nothin against either product other than the noise factor. Too loud for me personally
Have you ever seen the fan showdown by major hardware on CZcams. I think you should do something like that with chainsaw exhausts. Have people send you in exhausts for a 660 or a 372, something popular, name the pipes and rank them on a chart. Think this would encourage alot of interesting designs, we would learn alot and it would make some good content.
Ive got this jonsered cs 2152 but havent seen anything for them, do you make anything for this saw thats would make a deference in power? Or know of one that offers them? Its completely stock
Thanks 👊
GB DD ftw!
This is an impressive test. 😉👍🏻 I would want a setup that makes the most decent power increase but keeping the noise down close to stock if possible.
Likely the tuned expansion pipe is quieter if I remember right while making the best power.
I do think the expansion chamber was quieter than all of these....
The farmertec 372xp comes with a hollow muffler. Probly all the farmertecs are hollow. Be nice to know what the performance and sound(metered) difference is.
Farmertec 660s have the cage in them.
Wish you had a stock muffler modeed added into this test
I will be doing one with modified can style mufflers
Because this is a two stroke and not a four stroke, a straight pipe will only make more noise. For it to be of any benefit, it would have to be an expansion chambered exhaust, the same as hot saws and two stroke dirt bikes
Straight pipe is no where near what an expansion chamber. But it does appear to be a bit better than a stock box style muffler.
Next will be to see how well the box style can be modified to make power.
I just made pipe 3 for my 395
The color codes help a little.
But it would be so much more clear - if he always kept the "most powerful" displayed beside it's #s as a thumbnail/picture of each pipe ("or saw": when it's a saw comparison video) to make it constantly clear showing which one produced each different colored line always showing the image of what is being tested - in line with the end of it's corresponding lines. & also after each its own little list of achieved #s.
Displayed on every chart or graph he ever displays.
That way it would always be "instantly clear" which one he's speaking of / pointing to / or highlighting.
Does the Singapore mufflers that you're using their work better or is a dual Port like the iron horse with the Rams Horn or the ticket to the bush work the key to the bush work better than them give me the best report
Using better for power or is it a du al ported pipe that works better like the key to the bush or the Rams Horn from iron horse better or not or do the ones that you're using better give me the difference in the answers of most on the differences
I’m not gonna begin to pretend I understand this. Good video!
Sometimes more noise is faster...
All but my mega phone attempt made more power and tq than stock lol
@@dynojoemods2764 lol
Kinda sounded like the 3rd pipe was 4 stroking a little longer than the other pipes. I’d be curious to know if a carb tune would change the numbers
That was just before I caught it with the load. All are tuned within about 500 max rpm.
That was a good one.its looks like were looking at cam dyno sheets.I guess the pipe act's like the cam in two strokes.I like the long pipe 2.I have a sthil ms 261 I wonder if there's any power to be made if I made one?
More labeling on the next one is better for me thanks.
The m tronic on the 261 should be able to keep up with these pipe designs. But if you don't hear it "4stroking " wide open no load it isn't getting enough fuel and will need to tame the pipe down some.
@@dynojoemods2764 ok.2017 model.now with stock pipe opened tiny bit.runs good.high jet turned all the way up.turn to the right for more fuel?thanks
@@squealthewheels3090
If it has carb screws counter clockwise is more fuel. On the H and L screws
@@dynojoemods2764 ok thanks
I'm running a Husqvarna k650 50mm on a motorized bike, do you have a suggestion on w 😚hat would work best? Expansion chamber?
You may be able to get a chamber to work but the first 10" of a chinadoll muffler header, may work. Or even the 650 box muffler may perform well with some extra holes.
If the chamber isn't matched to the porting it may perform worse than the box muffler.
I was told the cs590 stock muffs are difficult to hog out but are basicly a straight shot if you do??? Im sure the 620s are the same muffler
Other than some spacers on the support flange the murders are almost identical.
2 1/4" holes under the large part of the deflector does wonders on those saws. The factory deflector is 2 pieces spot welded together. Remove the bottom half and add the 2 holes into the muffler. Good bump in power and not a huge amount of noise.
@@dynojoemods2764 thanks joe i think i watched a vid of yours about it ✌
Is there anything inside the long tube pipe? Looks like its been split and welded back together.
Nothing inside, that was just to help form/shape. Pretty sure that pipe has been made to fit a pile of saws over the years
I too am disappointed your megaphone didn't work. Over the past month I have gone to great effort to build a box muffler with a megaphone inside of it. As yet I have not finished it so I now look forward to seeing how it goes.
Did pipe 2 have a slight taper to it? It looked like it reduced in area at the exit. That pipe could be refined. I could make some dies for it.
For a megaphone to work, it has a tuned length and diameter to hit just like a real expansion chamber. I missed the mark, but it did provide the best low end. Pipe 2 was a straight wall with the end crimped down some. Mostly from use i think. It was a very old pipe.
@@dynojoemods2764 The challenge is to build a muffler/pipe that in some way improves performance inside the space a muffler would typically occupy. Pipe 2 has some real potential. I'm formulating my thoughts as to why it worked as well as it did and how it could be improved.
I have now watched several of your videos and more then ever I think I'll build a dyno. I like your setup. I have drawn up an inertia dyno in Fusion but was never completely sold on the idea so there it has sat for more than a year. I only port for myself and have no intention of doing others as its just not worth the hassle and likewise building a dyno is a lot of effort and cost to test my own experiments but watching you test various set ups makes a good case to get on with it. As time goes on my builds get more and more extreme and I'm not sure my 372 is really a work saw anymore. I'm not sure I'm getting the returns on my effort either for that matter. It doesn't take very much to make a big difference and after that it seems much more difficult to get a great deal more. Re doing the combustion chamber has given me a nice little gain recently but other than that I seem to be going in circles. Port numbers are meaning less to me in favor of transfer shape. I find ex 100 Trans 124-126 intake about 80-85 works for me. My thinking on a bit more intake timing is to give the top end a bit more. I'd be interested to know if you have done any testing on intake timing and if you found that to be true. I think I need a dyno to quantify all of this.
@@toast47624
Those port numbers will work well in a 372. The first 20-30% comes easy and it is a struggle for ever few % after that and very easy to go the wrong way. Everyone that is serious about engines should build a dyno. But a dyno takes a lot of time and effort. But it is nice to see the actual number. I offer mail in dyno runs if you want to send something in sometime.
I removed baffle on stock muffler it revs faster
Nifty to see!
👍🏻
Pipes 2 & 3 sounded to be tuned considerably richer than the others. The stock muffler and megaphone were considerably leaner. I would love to see tests showing how much difference the tune makes.
Actually the stock had the richest tune/least max rpm around 12.4k
P3 was 12.9k
P4 was 13k
P2 13.3
P1 13.4 all within about 500 max rpm.
Noise, outlet direction and microphone all mess with it some.
Max RPM for each muffler is not an indicator of the tune. Each muffler will be tuned properly at a different RPM.
Yes, I agree. That is why the runs posted were averaged off of multiple runs to show the best run at a good "work" tune. It's not practical to show the entire 10-15 min pulls for each pipe to to come up with these runs.
Did you adjust the carb before each pull on the dyno?
Yes, they all had slight adjustments to run/idle/accelerate while keeping a decent 4 stroke.
👍
I will be the first to admit that Im completely surprised that any of those made more power. Still for the small gain in power its not worth the noise or lack of spark arrestor
I do agree they’re obnoxiously louder. I cut for 4 hours yesterday and the stock muffler on my 445 was loud enough! It’s more about getting the heat out of the motor. Your stock muffler retains the heat vs when you have a hole for it to escape from.
Could you try a very small diameter pipe? Like a 1/2"?
We will have to see what types of modified covers come in for testing. I want to get the box muffler video all done before any other variations of these header pipes.
I think that even if not the most power pulling the number 2 would be the fastest in the cut, u know higher cuttin capacity
It should be for most operators and cutting conditions. But wood type and chain setup would be the deciding factor.