I used to ride behind President Class Pacifics between Tiffin, and Defiance, Ohio in 1955 and 1956. Remembering Class Q3 Mikados in Defiance,Ohio on Local 102 out of Garrett, IN bound for Pittsburgh, PA in 1956.
The actual flagship class of the B&O were the iconic P-7 Pacifics, They were assigned on traffic out of Jersey City towards Washington DC then pushed further west as seen here until retirements in the late 50s
There were fellows who ran an EM-1 to Butler, PA, in the hopes maybe it could be saved. Bob Rathke photographed it in 1961. Sadly by then the Train Museum had been shuttered. So it was sent to the scrappers. The 5300 and 4500 were pulled out of the scrapyard by the yard owner, who donated them to the museum. If not for him, we would have no examples of the ubiquitous Pacifics and Mikados of the B&O. Sadly, steamers brought a lot in scrap value...
I have heard 2 stories, one contains that it was accidentally sent away from the yard and cut up, and the yard guy that made the mistake lost his job, and it was too late to recover it when they made the discovery, and 2 was that they did not have enough money, its a boatload of crap that neither one had an example saved, they were good about preserving their early engines, but not the later ones, actually in a follow up Garrett was offered the T3 to buy for its scrap value but they did not want to pay for it, and there wasn't enough money to be had, its crap, and right now as of 2017 there are no mountain class steamer running, lots of northerns, a few berks, and so on, but no 4 8 2's since the one was due for its rebuild, lucky though steam though small is still alive with several groups trying to build right now according to Mr Steam himself Gary Bensman, saw him over the last weekend for the first time in a year, told me 15 projects being attempted, though some of the stuff I mentioned on topics like Morgan engineering that used to make steam hammers and alcoa's 50000 being back up and running he was not aware, and I showed him the company page but mentioned the original Morgan engineering closed up in the 1980's and auctioned off, but that was on the topic of making forgings for steam engines, and foundries, on the topic of the t1 trust but thats a discussion for another time, and how dispite the popular opinion about coal being dirty the latest scrubbers on powerplants almost have zero emissions, but its just that coal is a boogieman, and majority of our power and electricity still comes from it, when I mentioned the biocoal research, this was after helping take the boiler lagging and insulation of npk 765, she is due for the other half of her 15 year and we need to do the boiler survey this winter, there is a nice picture of my backside climbing the engine next to George Kester with the air gun in hand, when Kelly Lynch took the picture of the work, if I would have known I would have turned around so I dont look so wacky as I was climbing over the top of the the engine to get to the other side of the boiler to blow the insulation off, and man that fiberglass is itchy even if a little blows in the wind back on you. its on the fort wayne railroad historical society facebook page.
At the time the B&O was in bad financial shape. They closed down the museum in the early 60s. They figured what's the point of keeping an EM-1 if we don't have a place to put it? I talked to the caretaker of the museum when it was closed (my father somehow found a way to get us in) and he said he was worried the B&O might still sell all the engines there. Why not? They had no intention of re-opening. Luckily they did not, and it came under the protection of Chessie CEO Hayes Watkins. Under him it was re-opened as a separate entity, away from Chessie's BOD.
I see, yes and if they did close up permanently, who knows what would have happened to the birthplace and oldest steam engine building complex in the Americas, its a scary thought that all of it could have been leveled and many of the engines ended up scrap too, still the B&O knew the significance of the last em1 they could have donated it, unless they really thought that the drop in the bucket value would have helped, I was not around then, but I am old enough to remember chessie systems though and the tail end of the use of cabooses, I was a little kid though, and liked it when there was a caboose on the end of the train, I always though the Chessie cat C had something to do with the chessier cat from Alice and wonderland back then though, not realizing it was a outline of a mascot as famed in the old days as they came, sadly though most of the actual shops were taken down over the years though, and the erecting shed that was over 1000 feet long burned down before there was even a thought of it being saved, or taken down at a latter date, well we still have the carshops though, and the ruins of the freight car shop that also made a few tenders called the tender kitchen according to the website for the B&O Museum.
@@maxwellwalcher6420 "Hudson", when referred to a steam locomotive, refers to the wheel arrangement. Hudsons are any steam locomotives with 4-6-4 wheel arrangements. So the Baltimore & Ohio did have one, which they named the "Lord Baltimore". The Baltimore & Ohio didn't have hundreds of Hudsons like the New York Central, but they did have one, which makes the narrator in this video incorrect when he says "no Hudsons".
and they did not save any t3's its a tradgety, though they did have an em 1 that was to be sent to mount clare for the collection but some yard guy sent it away and it was cut up, and the city of garrett did try to buy a t3 to save since we were the last part to diesleize but we did not have the funds and they were gone before we could. soo many lost.
yes but those were not the largest, a t3 or t class or em1 would have been really nice, or at least another pacific one that was like the streamliner that pulled the cincanattian in the picture I have in a garrett history book about the b and o in that part of indiana. though If I had millions of dollers and time, I would work toward building an ohio class lima that is a step up from the berkshires it was a 4 8 6 with a larger firebox, double belpair firebox, I guess a small model of the proposed designe sits somewhere in storage out west in a museume rusting away the double belpair design that is after lima closed, and I would love to see if the w class would work it had the little bessler style engines under each drive set, it was kind of like a shay sort of in theory where all the steam could be put to use at once to start a train, each drive wheel set had its own engine, its has a lot of parts but the theory was you could change out a drive set like diesle electro motor sets to work on them as a unit, and it would provide more even torque, it was interesting for sure, the thing is I dont have 50 million dollers to devote to research and buying the parts for such things. but it would sure be nice to see one example of those built or at least the lima ohio class but time manpower and money, sigh
@@manga12 if I had millions of dollars I would have a Baltimore and Ohio T3, a Pennsylvania S2, and a Pennsylvania S1 rebuilt, along with restoring Chesapeake and Ohio L1 490
afraid so, the one was offered to garrett for scrap value but the city didn't have the money for it so none were saved had they we might be singing a differant story of restoration and the city wanted to save the roundhouse too but railroad said no and hired a demolition contractor to tear it down, demo was finished jan 23 1964 yes thats right we are at this time days away from 60 years anniversery today is 1/13/2024
it was a mallet just not a coumpound with high and low pressure, which is what a true mallet is but I assure you it has 2 sets of drivers or did as they are now all gone from life. it was a yellowstone
@@gravelydon7072 I have heard it defined both ways, but yes the origional mallets were compounds high and lower pressure in differant pairs of cylenders before being exausted, but it has two sets of drivers therefore some would call the em1 a mallet, though not a true mallet, like the pennsy s1 and t1 or q2 for that matter
Golden Era of Railways
I used to ride behind President Class Pacifics between Tiffin, and Defiance, Ohio in 1955 and 1956. Remembering Class Q3 Mikados in Defiance,Ohio on Local 102 out of Garrett, IN bound for Pittsburgh, PA in 1956.
The actual flagship class of the B&O were the iconic P-7 Pacifics, They were assigned on traffic out of Jersey City towards Washington DC then pushed further west as seen here until retirements in the late 50s
There were fellows who ran an EM-1 to Butler, PA, in the hopes maybe it could be saved. Bob Rathke photographed it in 1961. Sadly by then the Train Museum had been shuttered. So it was sent to the scrappers. The 5300 and 4500 were pulled out of the scrapyard by the yard owner, who donated them to the museum. If not for him, we would have no examples of the ubiquitous Pacifics and Mikados of the B&O. Sadly, steamers brought a lot in scrap value...
I have heard 2 stories, one contains that it was accidentally sent away from the yard and cut up, and the yard guy that made the mistake lost his job, and it was too late to recover it when they made the discovery, and 2 was that they did not have enough money, its a boatload of crap that neither one had an example saved, they were good about preserving their early engines, but not the later ones, actually in a follow up Garrett was offered the T3 to buy for its scrap value but they did not want to pay for it, and there wasn't enough money to be had, its crap, and right now as of 2017 there are no mountain class steamer running, lots of northerns, a few berks, and so on, but no 4 8 2's since the one was due for its rebuild, lucky though steam though small is still alive with several groups trying to build right now according to Mr Steam himself Gary Bensman, saw him over the last weekend for the first time in a year, told me 15 projects being attempted, though some of the stuff I mentioned on topics like Morgan engineering that used to make steam hammers and alcoa's 50000 being back up and running he was not aware, and I showed him the company page but mentioned the original Morgan engineering closed up in the 1980's and auctioned off, but that was on the topic of making forgings for steam engines, and foundries, on the topic of the t1 trust but thats a discussion for another time, and how dispite the popular opinion about coal being dirty the latest scrubbers on powerplants almost have zero emissions, but its just that coal is a boogieman, and majority of our power and electricity still comes from it, when I mentioned the biocoal research, this was after helping take the boiler lagging and insulation of npk 765, she is due for the other half of her 15 year and we need to do the boiler survey this winter, there is a nice picture of my backside climbing the engine next to George Kester with the air gun in hand, when Kelly Lynch took the picture of the work, if I would have known I would have turned around so I dont look so wacky as I was climbing over the top of the the engine to get to the other side of the boiler to blow the insulation off, and man that fiberglass is itchy even if a little blows in the wind back on you.
its on the fort wayne railroad historical society facebook page.
At the time the B&O was in bad financial shape. They closed down the museum in the early 60s. They figured what's the point of keeping an EM-1 if we don't have a place to put it? I talked to the caretaker of the museum when it was closed (my father somehow found a way to get us in) and he said he was worried the B&O might still sell all the engines there. Why not? They had no intention of re-opening. Luckily they did not, and it came under the protection of Chessie CEO Hayes Watkins. Under him it was re-opened as a separate entity, away from Chessie's BOD.
I see, yes and if they did close up permanently, who knows what would have happened to the birthplace and oldest steam engine building complex in the Americas, its a scary thought that all of it could have been leveled and many of the engines ended up scrap too, still the B&O knew the significance of the last em1 they could have donated it, unless they really thought that the drop in the bucket value would have helped, I was not around then, but I am old enough to remember chessie systems though and the tail end of the use of cabooses, I was a little kid though, and liked it when there was a caboose on the end of the train, I always though the Chessie cat C had something to do with the chessier cat from Alice and wonderland back then though, not realizing it was a outline of a mascot as famed in the old days as they came, sadly though most of the actual shops were taken down over the years though, and the erecting shed that was over 1000 feet long burned down before there was even a thought of it being saved, or taken down at a latter date, well we still have the carshops though, and the ruins of the freight car shop that also made a few tenders called the tender kitchen according to the website for the B&O Museum.
The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad was usurped by CSX Transportation in 1987.
So that was the 1950's. And just 15 years later, NASA went to the moon.
And more than 30 years later, the B&O became CSX!
I think you should watch October Sky, It had O Winston Link who photographed N&W steam towards the end
Would p7 5300 and 2-8-2 5400 and p7d 5304 be steamed.
At 1:00, "No Hudsons". Not true. The Baltimore & Ohio did have one, the "Lord Baltimore".
Hudsons is the NYC.
@@maxwellwalcher6420 "Hudson", when referred to a steam locomotive, refers to the wheel arrangement. Hudsons are any steam locomotives with 4-6-4 wheel arrangements. So the Baltimore & Ohio did have one, which they named the "Lord Baltimore". The Baltimore & Ohio didn't have hundreds of Hudsons like the New York Central, but they did have one, which makes the narrator in this video incorrect when he says "no Hudsons".
It's time to get 5300 out on the rails
Sure thing, In fact it could be modified with a centered headlight like it's sisters when they were modded
The Mainline Steam has completed giveaway to Diesel power on the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. B&O Pacific #5300 and Mikado #4500 were saved. 🚂🚂
and they did not save any t3's its a tradgety, though they did have an em 1 that was to be sent to mount clare for the collection but some yard guy sent it away and it was cut up, and the city of garrett did try to buy a t3 to save since we were the last part to diesleize but we did not have the funds and they were gone before we could. soo many lost.
T3 Mountains were solid for scrapped in 1960.
yes but those were not the largest, a t3 or t class or em1 would have been really nice, or at least another pacific one that was like the streamliner that pulled the cincanattian in the picture I have in a garrett history book about the b and o in that part of indiana.
though If I had millions of dollers and time, I would work toward building an ohio class lima that is a step up from the berkshires it was a 4 8 6 with a larger firebox, double belpair firebox, I guess a small model of the proposed designe sits somewhere in storage out west in a museume rusting away the double belpair design that is after lima closed, and I would love to see if the w class would work it had the little bessler style engines under each drive set, it was kind of like a shay sort of in theory where all the steam could be put to use at once to start a train, each drive wheel set had its own engine, its has a lot of parts but the theory was you could change out a drive set like diesle electro motor sets to work on them as a unit, and it would provide more even torque, it was interesting for sure, the thing is I dont have 50 million dollers to devote to research and buying the parts for such things.
but it would sure be nice to see one example of those built or at least the lima ohio class but time manpower and money, sigh
I understand.
@@manga12 if I had millions of dollars I would have a Baltimore and Ohio T3, a Pennsylvania S2, and a Pennsylvania S1 rebuilt, along with restoring Chesapeake and Ohio L1 490
Refers to the "St. Clare" Shops in Baltimore. Um...no: "Mount Clare Shops."
I assume that all the T-3’s were scrapped!
afraid so, the one was offered to garrett for scrap value but the city didn't have the money for it so none were saved had they we might be singing a differant story of restoration and the city wanted to save the roundhouse too but railroad said no and hired a demolition contractor to tear it down, demo was finished jan 23 1964 yes thats right we are at this time days away from 60 years anniversery today is 1/13/2024
Hicksville as in Hicksville, Long Island?
Ohio.
The EM-1 was not a Mallet type.
it was a mallet just not a coumpound with high and low pressure, which is what a true mallet is but I assure you it has 2 sets of drivers or did as they are now all gone from life. it was a yellowstone
@@manga12 Mallet is defined as a compound. An articulated can be either compound or simple. So the EM-1 was an articulated but not a Mallet.
@@gravelydon7072 I have heard it defined both ways, but yes the origional mallets were compounds high and lower pressure in differant pairs of cylenders before being exausted, but it has two sets of drivers therefore some would call the em1 a mallet, though not a true mallet, like the pennsy s1 and t1 or q2 for that matter
| 0:10 | 0:15 | 1:54 | Baltimore and Ohio 6 Chime whistle.
The whistles at 0:15 and 1:54 are from C&O #614
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 your right