The Quran | Origins and Canonization With Dr. Shady Nasser
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- The Quran | Origins and Canonization With Dr. Shady Nasser
The Second Canonization of the Quran (324/936) Ibn Mujhid and the Founding of the Seven Readings
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Watch another great interview on @ExploringtheQuranandtheBible
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#mythvision #Quran #Islam #dereklambert - Zábava
This channel is doing things that no other atheist channel is doing. I love it! Keep up the good work.
Solid channel honestly
Great stuff for sure.
I know right
I think a key difference is that this side of atheism likes to learn about and study religions, rather than just dismiss them as nonsense and not dig further.
I think it's cause the atheist channels don't want anyone flying a plane into their studios
One of the very best guests to have on Mythvision! My understanding of the Quran is almost non-existent, not due to a lack of interest understand, but simply because I am so ointerested in so many different things both spoken and written. This past 1+ hour exposed me to such a better appreciation and understanding of Islam and its beginnings that I feel a shift in my inquisitive direction happening. That's always a good thing, right? Thank you both for an afternoon werll spent!
Shady Nasser ,,, is talking about the Hadith which many early Muslims wanted to ban because it has many false propaganda against Islam ,,, furthermore the Quran is well preserved as can be seen by ancient manuscripts the secret of its preservation is it was memorize and manuscripts confirm it was well memorized by contrast the Hadith is oral memory thus it easily can be corrupted because it’s based down based on oral memory and written mostly 200 years later thus it’s hard to challenge a fake Hadith because it’s no memorized and pass down as memorized material , even in the time of the prophet both accurate and fake hadiths were circulated and people would inquiry from the prophet or his companions , the advice the prophet gave was to make the Quran as your compuse and be critical of circulated information but he didnt want to ban or restrict Muslims in fact if you falsely made an opinion with good intentions you are rewarded once but if you were accurate you are rewarded twice in other words the prophet didn’t encourage restrictions but accountability in fact the once who intentionally were spreading fake news would be asked to redeem or be executed and several were executed for spreading fake news although centuries after the time of the prophet .
Fantastic interview with Professor Shadi Nasser. So good to hear a scholarly non-biased critique that does not serve the purposes of apologetics who do not see the problems in their own religions. Thank you Derek.
Shady Nasser ,,, is talking about the Hadith which many early Muslims wanted to ban because it has many false propaganda against Islam ,,, furthermore the Quran is well preserved as can be seen by ancient manuscripts the secret of its preservation is it was memorize and manuscripts confirm it was well memorized by contrast the Hadith is oral memory thus it easily can be corrupted because it’s based down based on oral memory and written mostly 200 years later thus it’s hard to challenge a fake Hadith because it’s no memorized and pass down as memorized material , even in the time of the prophet both accurate and fake hadiths were circulated and people would inquiry from the prophet or his companions , the advice the prophet gave was to make the Quran as your compuse and be critical of circulated information but he didnt want to ban or restrict Muslims in fact if you falsely made an opinion with good intentions you are rewarded once but if you were accurate you are rewarded twice in other words the prophet didn’t encourage restrictions but accountability in fact the once who intentionally were spreading fake news would be asked to redeem or be executed and several were executed for spreading fake news although centuries after the time of the prophet .
This is excellent stuff.
The more we deep dive into Islam the more evident that it is not only a man-made product, But highly dependant on Christian texts
The Quran as a stand alone book is almost useless without the support of other references including tafsirs, hadiths, sirah literature and even the bible
Excellent work as always Derek, would love to see more content like this
If the reader doesn't know arabic , aramaic , astrology , mathematics...etc..he won't understand a lot of things...(keeping Quran's social codes apart)
@@luxusetveritas2844 this is true, but even then there's no clarity. For example, how many different interpretations do we have for the random stand alone letters we have in the Quran like Alif, Laam, meem 🤔
Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of Muslims don't have the supposed qualifications you listed, I wonder how they "understand" the Quran
satarini religion
You can say the same about the New Testament relying on the Old Testament.
Falsifying the Torah is essentially all that's required to know that the Abrahamic faiths are founded upon myths.
@@BasedKungFu absolutely. With the exception being that the Quran needs both to make any sense
Another Amazing Interview
As a Muslim I enjoy listening to western trained scholars on the Quran because I want to hear what their views and research are on the Quran
Would you happen to share you opinion on this particular interview? Ideas, questions you might have, remarks to make?
As a muslim you should give Dr.Hany from Marvelous Quran a chance, you will be stunned at the discoverys he made frol the Quran, i think this is the only channel, Myth Vision can't refute.
@@baudiagaew3163 " i think this is the only channel, Myth Vision can't refute"
Derek never came across to me as wanting to refute channels... but more as in getting/trying to expand his knowledge.
Why is it that it always needs to be a "battle" to some religious people? What is it that makes questioning or investigating the sacred texts, such a personal thing to some? I've seen it with some christians, but mostly with muslims.
Is it not logical that when someone does not believe in the god or claims described, the texts appear very different? (regardless of the intentions towards the investigation)
@@Rain-Dirt maybe you didn recive what i wanted to share, i ment with the comment that what Marvelous Quran shares is solid it has no gaps or holes,its solid, it doesnt need apologists to survive, it doesnt controdict the nature or the laws we are aware of. So thats what i ment, for example we know that to have a child we need a men and a women, bibel talks about virgin birth, wich controdict an law of nature, and the Quran looks at the superficial level, like that, but when you dig deep and look for the whole storie its talking about something most people never heard of, or imagined. Most people are unawere that Jesus father is Zakharia, so John and jesus are brothers, but ask any "muslim" he will tell you: no they are cousins and Jesus was an miracules birth.
@@baudiagaew3163 Thank you for your asnwer.
I used to be a christian fundamentalist, so you will understand I take a different view on how the Qu'ran describes parts of both the Jewish Bible and the New Testament from the christian Bible.
I have noticed to some degree that when I go into conversations with muslims (irl), they never directly talk to me, but automatically make a comparison with the Christian Bible (I did not even have to mention the Bible at all). Which I think is sad, but it also makes me wonder why. As you say the Qu'ran does not need apologists, why would it need the C Bible to make a point. Discrediting or making another faith look less truthful has imho nothing to do with studying the Qu'ran and it should not be done so either.
It is true f.e. that most versions of the C Bible Mary is seen as a virgin when she became pregnant of Jesus, but there are scholars who have reason to believe that the translation of "virgin" might be wrong, and that it could refer to a young woman who has not yet have intercourse yet. So yes, a virgin, but not anymore after she became pregant.
To me it does not matter as much because I do not believe in the Abrahamic god any longer as it is right now. My interests are purely academic in which I put the human in the middle of it all. What could have led to what we now know as the Abrahamic religions, but also other religions that have a god or gods.
To me the Abrahamic religions are much more interesting since they involve interactions of different cultures across a vast geographic size and time. (and maybe also because I am European, who knows lol)
One thing I can tell you, when "god" is removed from the Bibles, the texts become something very different. What once could be explained with "god" now can be explained by "men" and it takes on a different meaning indeed.
Wether Jesus' father was Zakharia or not, that to me is for now the opinion of a religion, perhaps one man only. Muhammad lived in places where christians and jews lived, together with pre-islamic cults. There is no way Muhammad did not get in contact with stories from the Jewish and Christian religions, or the arabian cults. So for a non-believer as myself reading about parts of the christian bible in the Qu'ran, it is not hard to imagin that Muhammad made his own version out of what he heard or knew from those religions. It really is not.
But for someone who believes the Quran and Muhammad's calling to be real (grown up with it f.e.), this will not look like that at all. For a christian it looks like a poor depiction of the christian Bible. No offense ofcourse, I can only give my own interpretation from the time I was a christian fundamentalist. And I find it sad that when I would say these things to a muslim who believes, that they (most of the time) personally feel offended. But I understand it, the mechanics in Islam towards their religion are different than within christianity.
It is not that the Qu'ran is of that nature that it can not be repeated again in style/fashion/size.. because it has. The difference between the Qu'ran (unique as it is) and the other work is that the other work did not have Muhammad and the political transformations linked with it + centuries of studying and hyping up.
"it doesnt controdict the nature or the laws we are aware of."
I would not be so sure of that. F.e. the claim that everything is made of water. (Surah 21:30) It's not hard to imaging that living in areas that have vast desserts, to conclude that without water, animals and plants die. Where water becomes so important that one interpretation could be that water is one of the most important reasons that we are alive. But we are not made of water or out of water. Water does not have everything to make every living creature. To me it is an attempt to explain life, but limited by what is known. This points to me again that Muhammad might not have been conversing with divine beings at all.
I look critically towards christianity as well. Don't worry.
I am convinced it is necessary to have this sort of criticism towards things that for many people is their way of life. If it has the capacity to have someone evolve their life around it, I think it's also necessary to dare to question it. Is what we give it, worth it.
Does it only survive because of us or do we survive because of "it". What is it that we do that can help it survive. And how does it influence our daily lives practically.
Does it invite or allow unecessary suffering? etc...
I will check out "Marvelous Quran". Thank you.
Excellent interview!
This interview is way better than that with Sean Anthony. Dr Nasser’s answers are trustworthy.
I did learn. Thank you!
This was great! Thank you !!
I love how I was able to read one of the words in the background picture. 😊 4:18
Great 👍
I come from an evangelical christian faith. I have much appreciation for Muslims and folks from the middle east. Their hospitality and humilnty are inspiring
Oddly specific number in your name, friend. What's that about?
😆
@@dereknoto6555 1488? Does that have a meaning for you?
Yes they are nice i know a few but try saying something against mohammad and then they change
@@remove122 interesting ... for most Christians you can say something against Jesus and they'll pray for you.
got this one done too!
Thanks for all the hard work.
I tried to find Shady’s books on Amazon uk, the Canonisation book is at £180, and the Transmission one is unavailable.
Can Dr Nasser make his publications more accessible to the curious public?
Extremely humbling
It sounds to me like someone is not ready to entirely give up their Islamic beliefs.
Mmm why do you say that?
Love MV, but wish YT hosts would let their guests speak; if not, then just interview yourself. This is a great interview regardless.
Great show. A quick question what apart from Islam was the influences of the Kharijites, a ‘heretical’ sect from the first century and other ‘heretical’ Islamic groups with radical doctrines such as the Qarmatians and neo-Mazdakite groups such as the Khurramiyya? Did Emperor Nabonidus lunar influenced religion influence any of their doctrines?
Dr. Nasser is one of my favourite scholars to listen to, since I can't afford his books...! :(
I'm a fan of your channel and content, and I've introduced many people to subscribe and support you. I've noticed that your constant interruptions of the guests can be somewhat disruptive and irritating. It would be greatly appreciated if you could give your highly qualified and interesting guests more opportunity to share their insights, while reducing your own speaking time and viewpoints. Thank you.
"Always the late Orthodox position, reorients the early sources." 🔥🔥🔥
"So you have to depend on the early sources. And when early sources are telling you something which is against the late Orthodox position, they try to reinterpret that, or try to reorient that."🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
-Dr Shady Nasser
I would like to know if the sources they are talking about towards the beginning appear at the same time, otherwise that would add additional problems to trusting what was written down. Edit- Only 27 minutes in, it might get answered at some point.
Very interesting. I have been watching a few of your videos beginning a few weeks ago. Greetings from a (doubtful almost ex-)muslim.
you need to seek education and get your questions answered first.
Ex Muslim here my friend. What's holding you back?
You should it’s the only way … to be free and fair
Don't leave. You will go to permanent hellfire, courtesy of an all knowing compassionate Allah.
@@mrmegabuckssongs how wonderful. The only way to keep someone a Muslim is threaten them with eternal hell to gaslight them into staying with something they don't believe in
Dr Nasser is on point! What about the story of the goat eating a chapter?❤ Derek always has the best scholars FANTASTIC!!
Derek - how about getting into Buddhism and the Pali Cannon? There is some very interesting critical research out there by the likes of Stephen Batchelor and others. And that’s without even getting into the Sanskrit texts of the Mahayana schools.
Like what type of critical research.
@@mitchjames9350 the same kind of textual analysis to try and work out what was original, so what might be things Buddha actually said, or at least was written nearer his own time, and what are likely later interpolations, etc. The Pali Cannon was not written down until longer after the Buddha’s death than the New Testament docs, while Buddhists claim that the original words were accurately preserved through recitation of verse, so it’s not exactly the same as New Testament studies. But a lot of similar methodologies
Dr. Shady Nasser made an incorrect assertion by suggesting that the Muslim perspective sees Islam as a continuation of Judaism and Christianity, a belief vehemently opposed and rejected by Muslims. Instead, we believe that Islam is a continuation of Islam, the religion of Adam passed down through the line of prophets and messengers, culminating in Muhammad, peace and blessings upon them all. Islam is regarded as the only true and singular religion bestowed by Allah. In contrast, it is held that Judaism and Christianity deviated from Islam and became disbelievers.
what Dr. Shady Nasser meant is in the term of prophethood and revelation. That's why in muslim perspective, those Jewish and Christians should accept prophet muhammad and become muslim if they want to get selvation, and because they reject prophet muhammad as the last prophet, that's why they are disbelievers.
But weren’t the original Muslims all Christians?
He's the real Slim Shady
I WISH THAT AMERICANS COULD ALL WATCH THIS ...DR NASSER THANK YOU MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA READING THE QURAN IS TOO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ,,,,,,THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING AT A VERY VERY SIMPLE WAY,, HOPEFULLY 2ND GRADE IQ CAN AT LEAST UNDERSTAND NEED PICTURES THANK FOR SHARING GOD BLESS YOU
Which God are you asking to bless him when he does not believe in any of them?
Derek thank you, this video was amazing to watch. But please can you also have a podcast on the similarities of both Islam, Hinduism and ancient Arabian paganism. 🙏
Trinity and trimutri
Muslim apologist to Derek:
Why do you bring this shady guy on your show?
Anything to discredit, deflect and deny.
😂😂😂
christians make up stories in their head to make them feel good about their reigion. without hate christianity diesp
@@jj-yi1ne
Tbf, most terror activities (linking with religions) are directly relating with a cult you know what 😂
You can check the stats
This is really eye-opening. It is interesting that each iteration of Abrahamic regilion it keeps this patern each time a prophet dies, and the religious leaders splinters off to create their own interpretations but then one gets canoned usual the one with connections to powerful ppl thus creating an endless cycle. I guess that's human nature.
Derek is ridiculously handsome 😭
@1:26 wow wow … that is the blow in head
Umaittad fighting with everyone, most close companions of Messengers was killed by them, but Quran already spread, but the translation was stolen by that tyrant reigm…
There is a lot of hearsay going on in the early tradition of the Quran!
Like almost every other religions as well.
Amazing!!
I love your channel and all the guests you bring on,
I think the moon splitting was a poem by Omro' Al-Qais who lived before Islam, maybe Muhammed was mentioning the poem and somehow got mistranslated/misinterpreted by Muslims
There a Reddit post on this claim. There's no real proof for it.
@MythVisionPodcast I think, an episode on contents and objectives of Qur'an could have been useful. It primarily tries to regulate the life. In turn, it's being used as an instrument for controlling people in the hands of politicians.
How do you know the Muslim read a different recitation 1400 yrs ago? and different how? And does these different recitations change the message of the Quran? Explain.
How is the angel Gabriel in the cave included in the inspirations of Muhammad and him having epileptic seizures or angelic possession
There is no source of muhammad's inspiration in the cave...all muhammad's life is just an Abasside's invention 2oo years after the death of the prophet..
The angel in the cave didn’t give his name, Mohammad’s uncle said it must of been Gabriel.
@@mitchjames9350
The story of muhammad's cave encountet with the archangel , based on Quran's chapter _"al Ąlaq"_ (Clinging clot) has no source at all , it has been added with the time by the abbassid scholars..
This chapter has nothing to do with the prophet muhammad's devine inspiration..it clearly talks about prophet *_"Enoch"_* "THE" messanger of God "par exelence" ( _Idriss_ in the Qυraη) during his journey in the heavens , these first Quranic _"al Ąlaq"_ chapter verses are saying exactly what comes in the *_Bσσκ of Enoch_* Chapter *_23:2_* when the archangel *"Baru'el"* was teaching Enoch while the prophet was writen on a clay tablet with a *_"Calam"_* ( _Qalam_ ) [ _polished and sharpened reed_ ] and then the angel ask Enoch "to recite what he wrote" , exactly what on the Quranic verse《 _Read in the name of your lord.[...] who thaught by the pen_ (Qalam)..》
You need to have Hamza Abdul Malik Quran Alone he can shed a lot of light on what your doing
Except for the fact that the narrative was not written by people in touch with their history.
It was written by people coming from the far east.
The Quran repeatedly says that Muhammad is not a poet and the Quran not a poetry
Excellent work.
Despite not being able to verbally articulate with proper tenses, emphasize the proper terms to translate his original thought into English, or clarify the main idea of the sentence and the main sentence of the argument, Dr. Shady Nasr did a great job here. However, much is lost in translation from his mother tongue to English.
His book v Clear and scientific tho.
His command of English is far superior to yours
@@GilesMcRiker true that my man
Are there many Muslims, beyond academic historians, who know about and accept that there were prior versions of Quranic recitations that are different from the current Uthmanic orthodox version and who are okay with this? Because it goes against what pretty much every Muslim I have ever met told me about it, who have always told me it is exactly as dictated by God.
also fun fact, In old arabic writing both of those words can be written exactly the same spelling. as vowels A O E can be omitted and is understood by context of sentences and poetic flow
The Hafs quran of today was not among the 7 sent to each province in uthman's time. It was chosen by cairo for their students in 1924. And later Saudi king chose it in 1985 as a standard for the whole world.
I first thought the video is about Qumran. Was a bit disappointed.
The verse that muslim translate as "universe expansion", it does not say universe in Arabic. It says السماء which mean literally Sky... only modern muslim with agenda to turn quran into scientific miracle claims that it means universe. Sky and universe is not same thing
Likewise the verse about big bang just says in arabic that earth and sky were once joined and Allah seperate them. But people like Zakir Naik thinks this refers to big bang 😅
Verse in quran (Surah Al-Hajj - 65). It says that Allah keeps the sky from falling down
Sound like quran thinks that Sky is some solid object that would fall if Allah did not stop it using his magical power
I would be interested in the guest’s opinion on the scholarship of Robert Spencer, who shows that Muhammad never lived and Mecca was not a town at the right time in history. Coins show that the Rashiduns and Umayyads were Nestorian Christians. Muhammad was invented by the Abbasids when they re-wrote the Koran to include more Zoroastrian influence. Before then, the Koran was a collection of sermon notes about Jesus the man (as opposed to Jesus the son of god) collected first by Uthman, the last Rashidun caliph. The Abbasids were at war with the Romans (trinitarian Christians) and the Khazars (Jews) so they needed a new prophet from a region without tribal history. The Abbasids chose Mecca for their origin story because it was devoid of Umayyad influence, and because the Abbasids were distantly related to the Sassanids who had settled that northern part of Yemen. So it was a political offer, to reunite the Iranian influences over the Arab ones. Abd Al-Malik had built a Kaaba at Mecca over the site of an old Christian pilgrimage site, but it was not a town until the Abbasids told everyone they had to make pilgrimage there.
the language modeling LLM limiting Quranic parameters produce awesome results ! Jesus had a father ! And Mary was Egyptian.
Islam was formed by being a sponge that absorbed from it's surroundings. That perfectly sums it all up and I think in that light, the Qu'ran and it's mere existence, makes much more sense. This not being exclusive to Islam/Qu'ran only. I think it makes the human even more interesting.
Dr. Nasser is a very pleasant person to listen to.
Muhammad is known as a trustworthy even before he was a prophet.. Just talk about that, instead of the spliting moon
He is also known to talk to trees, rocks and even podium. So....
By the way, isn't the name Muhammed kind of as suspiciously appropriate as "Jesus"? That is, I've heard that the literal meaning of the name Muhammeds pretty much describes his function, just like Jesus/Josh/Joshua means "JHWH saves". Is that so? 🤔
Muhammad means "Praised, praiseworthy" in Arabic. Nothing unusual or special about it.
@@AJansenNL
So it's being similar to/with jesus christ also meaning something diffirent than people thinking it actually meaning?
no
@@apolloniusoftyana7049
Jesus christ is supposedly being a totally flawless humanbeing as also the claim that muhammed is also being claimed as being a totally flawless humanbeing which just means that both christianitys view of Jesus character and islams view of mohammed character being viewed exactly the same according to their own version of religion.
I met many Muslim in the CZcams chat and most of them believe the Qur'an exists during Muhammad time. I try to explain to them that it took 20 years later muhd death to create the Quran and Hadiths 200 later.
But most of the time, they get angry and don't bother to explain that there's proof that the Quran exists while muhd alive.
They just don't bother replying to me back or replying in unkind words.
huh? the muslims memorized the Quran. the entire Quran was compiled after muhammed death, and?
almost all the muslims lived exclusively in the middle east but as islam spread beyond those borders the need to collect the ahadith of the messenger of Allah became paramount. your point?
all is false … wake up
@@Commons_usa
The Hadith is in control of the masses, without it. It will be difficult for a far away nation to understand the Quran without reading in translation format.
Hadith gives instructions like how to pray, dress code, war, slave, woman, fasting and many more.
Just relying on the Quran is just impossible, for example prayer. There are two surahs implied that Allah instructed three times prayer not five times.
Yes, there is a surah about five times in prayer but it conflicts with the other surah and makes historical mistakes like the temple in jurasalem.
The Jewish temple in jurasalem has already been destroyed for more than 500 years and somehow muhd riding a flying horse, landed there and entered the temple.
The Hadith swapped that story by replacing it with a mosque which is well known as dome of the rock. But the mosque is 60 and some historians say 100 years after muhd death.
So, Hadiths is considered a powerful tool to control a nation that is outside islamic territory.
Cause it a pretty stupid thing to say
that 20 years later is based on people memorization
You need to have a study on the origin of exorcism.
There were no books in Pre-Islam Arabia? Why not? I know the Golden Age came after Islam, but wasn't Arabia unaffected by the Dark Age following the Fall of Rome? Why was there no literature?
the christian lie of greek and roman influence in pagan arabs
I think he means there are no survival texts. All texts/manuscripts that might have existed have not survived the pass of time so we have no physical evidence of their existence.
They burned everything when islam came
Man Muhammad must of been really special because he established both a state and religion simultaneously that is unique to him in history.
Dr Michael H. Heart's book 📖 : " a ranking of the 1oo most influential persons in history "...N°1 = prophet Muhammad..
@@luxusetveritas2844ah yes, the list that includes a certain German dictator in it.
It's always funny when Muslims give quotes without understanding the context or even the author just because something is seemingly positive in favour of Islam
It seems that Islam is constantly seeking external validation as it can't prove itself independently
@@thenun1846
That list mentioned only great characters of history , لεsυs , Alexander the great , Ghandi , Einstein..etc...and the author is لewish...I know it may hurt some feelings...but that it's a scientist research...and not the only one , many others alleged that muhammad is the greatest leader ever..Sorry
@@luxusetveritas2844 actually, if you read the book and saw what it's actually trying to say, you might have understood but it seems that you just parrot from other muslims.
The list is about the most influential people in history, and the list includes Hitler.
But so what? If I show you a Jewish author that trashes Muhammad, would you accept it? Or do you just pick and choose lol
@@thenun1846
Like every other religions of Abrahamic trinity.
52:46 In a metaphorical sense, isn't the whole koran a palimpsest? Is there anything in it that cannot be traced to older traditions from the world around Arabia and Mesopotamia?
the recitation was supposed to make sense to its audience
The more you're trying to dive deeper into islamic and quran histories the more you are confusing... by the end of the day, what's most important is how is you relationship with God? I mean, if you have 5 scholars and you ask them the same questions, they will give you many answers that some of them are contradicting each other or sometime supporting each others. The worst case is, let's assume the Quran is not the same as what have revealed to prophet muhammad in his time, at least, I have some portions of God's revelations and I do follow it... If I think like that, then, isn't it the same as in Judaism and Christianity? I mean, in their books at least there are some portions of them that are really from God? If they follow them, then they will be rewarded in hearafter right?
Gabriel is not an arch Angel he is thee bright an morning Stay the chief of Staff
Okay, paul
So Muhammed saw was literate but he somehow manged to correct the errors found in the bible like the bible says , "heavens have pillars" while quran denies this.
There’s British English, American English, and Indian that is hard to understand
Derek, try to read the koran the way professor Jeffery Lang first read it while him being an atheist. The koran itself actually answers men's questions and you could simultaneously widen your understanding of relevant knowledge.
That’s against his religion.
Why not read it like Turan Dursun who read it for 50 years while being an Islamic cleric? People convert in and out of all religion.
@@kyoungd Maybe but still read then either be like Turan or Jaffery or Dawkin!
@@babulsarwar3714 Good point. I agree that everyone should read the Bible, Qur'an, Vedas and other holy books.
@@kyoungd 100%
1:37:55 bro he literally wrote 3 books 🤦🏾♂️ and you haven’t even watched his critique video. And I know when you mean “peer review” you mean only western standards right? Typical
There's no such thing as western standard or islamic standard.
Muslims themselves have own interpretations.
Think about Pakistan and Malaysia. They follow the same sunnism but they have different understandings.
Malaysians follow softer version and pak follows 💥 version
@28m Is he seriously critizing.... changing your opinion based on evidence? :D
The Birmingham Quran has been carbon-dated to the Prophet's lifetime, without a single letter difference. You all need to catch up on modern scholarship.
Maybe take your own advice and read about the scholarship on the Birmingham Quran? It's not as black and white as you seem to think. For one, the script seems to indicate it cannot have been written that early.
You should take your own advice and look into it.
It's not even a full Quran, they are just manuscripts. We can understand you getting emotional because the standard Islamic narrative is being exposed as the fraud that it is, but be a little intellectually honest
Echoing the other people to heed your own advice: It's not true that there is not a single letter of difference. The differences are very small but they *are* different from modern printed Qurans.
@@thenun1846not really...we have oral tradition still preserve today to prove our sincerely keeping the word of Quran...Muslim memorize Quran date back during prophet...so the hole of narrative you mentioned just a biased western schollar..but we still preserve our tradition untill today are proof Quran preservation correct
@@fajartiyarabdulmajid7807 yea repeating the same lies you were told doesn't solve the problem.
If oral tradition was such an effective method, you wouldn't have disagreements about the collection, ordering and standardisation of the Quran. And you certainly wouldn't have someone burn all the other Qurans to standardize their own version
I would say Islamic scholarship is biased because it's goal is to prove Islam Islam true, where as western scholarship is trying to find the truth
In Our Oriental Orthodox church we wash our hands and face, face east and pray 7 times a day with many prostrations. Muslims lifted this practice very closely from us God bless them. our places of worship look extremely similar, we both fast a lot. Some Muslims even believe Isa is the only prophet who was the embodied word of God. Byzantines thought Islam was a weird new Christian sect, they weren't far off.
Orthodox and Islam never had the dark age that the barbarian take over caused in the west. We both made huge contributions to science 1000 years ago. Myth is fun, no one ever said scripture should be taken as factual history. Myth is a bridge to higher truth. 'Batiniye' is key
They say there is influence of Syriac hymns on the Qur'an. Whatever, Christian orthodoxy is more similar to Islam than to western Christianity, even Putin said so
MANY people said and say now that scripture should be read as absolute history. Just within Christianity take a closer look at the evangelicals and fundamentalists.
Shady Nasser is scared to say point blank that thwre was no quran.... it was written by different authors.
So who wrote it or is just wishful thinking on your part? Did you read the Quran in Arabic and decided it was so? What led you to believe that? What an ignorant comment.
@@BenM61 That is an odd question. Did you read the Qur'an in Arabic? How many Muslims have read the Qur'an in Arabic? What leads them to their belief? Are they ignorant for believing?
My gripe with Islam is this .
In Larnaca Cyprus there is a salt lake , on the banks of the salt lake is a mosque known as hala sultan tekke .
This mosque is the third holiest shrine in all of Islam , this is because it houses the tomb of um haram , she was the blood auntie and foster mother to Mohamed .
This place is neglected so much so that it has become a dumping ground for dogs and cats .
Is there any Muslim who can explain to me why this is the case .
The third holiest? What nonsense! The third would be Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem. Every muslim knows of this place and it's even mentioned in the Quran. I was a muslim for 30 years and I've never heard of Hala Sultan Tekke.
As for cats and dogs, I don't know about that. Cats are considered clean animals and would be allowed. One companion of the prophet even had a pet cat and therefore many muslims seem to like them. Dogs are considered unclean and would be kept away from mosques.
Thanks for your reply but you didn't answer what I was asking for .
Yes I could be wrong on what you said but it would be in the top five I'm sure .
We are talking the woman who clothed bathed and fed Muhammad , a direct link to the messenger of Islam .
I've been 3 times and every time I go I get goosebumps thinking of the historical significance .
The tomb is in the shape of a Kabba just like in Mecca , I just feel the Islamic world has forgotten or neglected the significance of this place .
But the cynic in me says well she's just a woman and woman are looked down upon in Islam .
@@roddychristodoulou9111 Historical significance? Maybe, or even probably, it's just myth. The islamic world is littered with such 'holy' sites. Claiming a tie to the prophet elevates status.
That's because it's just being the wrong interpretation of islam of which the Saudiarabian priesthood intentionally neglecting because according to them that's there's only one version/interpretation of islam.
Their interpretation and that's also why they're calling other interpretations of islam aposte and kuffar while sanctioning attacks on shia and sufi muslims.
Yesterday I was trying to ask you …. When about « Koran » 😳 incredible
Wow! What a discrepancy between the level of thought of the guest and the shallowness of the questions of the audience. Or is it only people who have money for superchats that ask such questions? There must have been some other better questions. These made a huge chunk of this a waste of time
1:32:40 => That's why I proudly left islam
Yup written by humans and assembled by humans
But themselves claiming of themselves speaking for their supposedly creator god.😅😅😅
Revealed by the Creator
Pre Islamic poetry … where are the « text » nowadays ? And what are the first « text » in « Arabic » ? When ? And where are they ? Pleaz
Great criticizing the Islamic religion.
"Thou Shall Not Kill!" I promised your tribe these lands so disregard that thing about killing, because you need to kill these people to take ownership of these promised lands....
How many scrolls, pages, text does it take to summarize, "Don't be a Dick and help everyone you can help when you can, and they should return the services, or Treat other's as you want to be treated..."
History of Samaritans helped coin the "Good Samaritan" thing in the Western/European life style and yet those stories were around way before Christianity and Islam???
Hmm structures that have predated by carbon dating and had "texts" left on the walls and so on, wonder again about control(s) of each scripture(s)...
Freedom of thought and thinking outside the box and for yourself makes a huge difference. Remember when the vast majority of the human population couldn't read or understand texts so they had to listen to and accept what they were told by the Chieftain, Tribal Leader, Shaman, Priest(s), ETC. ...
Dr shady missed to tell that Hadith were also not only memorizes but since the prophet was alive were provided as the basis of Islamic laws in the mosques as religious and the legal rules for courts , Hadiths as well as Quran weren’t absent as Christians mischievously try to convince.
9:55 Your religion is no different than every other religion.
Didn't Mohammed forbid to write down what he was saying and doing, apart from his revelations? Wasn't that to prevent a cult of personality from developing and isn't that exactly what at least some Mohammedans are doing? (Doing something, because Mohi did it, kissing the black stone, sitting while drinking, .....).
What do you mean by "provided"? Who provided what? If it was something different from the messages Mohammed claimed to receive from Jibril, how can they be taken as basis for Islamic laws?
Lol I would believe you but he's shady 😂😅😂😅😂
If you actually study the Quran it tells you how it was collected who teaches who sent it and how it was written down it’s a whole Sura called the Pen for crying out loud 😢so was Muhammad illiterate? He couldn’t read our write a language he spoke 😅 and side read Surah 52 Najim and you will see he couldn’t have been in a cave and the one mighty in power stood two Bow lengths away and didn’t hug or squeeze him like the fake Hadith says so you need to study the Quran
Excuse me but where did Shady Nasser study?
I hardly think that he's qualified to speak on deep and intricate topic of the preservation of the Qur'an. Instead of this guy , I would suggest that you look into Dr Ali Ataie from Zaytuna College
He is a Harvard professor
Did Muhammad actually exist?
Beginning to think he is a fictional character. Evidence of him is flimsy at best.
To be fair, evidence for the existence of most people that far in the past is flimsy.
@@juliee593 Yes but he was supposed to be special.. 😁.. No his definitely a myth.. and so is a pre-Islamic Mecca..
That's because it's just being the claim.
he's mentioned in non muslim sources
@@apolloniusoftyana7049
Before or after his apperance?
What are the « sources » out of the « Islamic Tradition » talking about « Mu_HMD » the « Kaliph » the « Companion » ???? It’s not year 1 or 500 BC 😳😳😳
From the time of the message from so-called Gabriel or Michael the chain of custody was corrupted...hmmm. How about that god write the book and then deliver it to the ignorant prophet
He doesn't sound like a critical scholar to me. He wants to trust muslim sources, the hadith, which were collected hundreds of years after the events.
We need the « Koran » from Sanaa since 1976 …….. it’s very long waiting !!!!! Are they afraid of the truth ?
You need to be « initiated » to read the « Koran » 🤓🤓🤓 but it is said that it came in a « clear » Arabic 🤔🤔🤔
An Easy One …. Is it « Ibrahim » or « Abraham » ?!? … pleaz
shady is so shady. he has been totally debunked by Farid
We are at least in 700 … how could we believe this « story » 😳😳😳
Pleaz …. « Ibrahim » or « Abraham » ? Easy …
"You are always welcome," I love that. Try doing it with an Anglo or Christian scholar. You have to first show them the dollars and then they will spend months working out how to fit you into their diary. Eastern hospitality is brilliant.
Misguided
« Hadith » &Co are such a waste of time … 😵💫 Only « Koran » 🥂
SomeOne … using « syriac » … understood that the 26 of Ramadan … was about the birth of « Jesus » … so .. the 25 of « December » 🤔🤔🤔 True Story 🤓🤓🤓
Some « believe » « Mu_HMD » is a « title » for « Jesus » …. 😱
Jesus save me because I’m losing hope. Please come soon I don’t know how much longer I can hang on. But I’m keeping faith. I keep faith even as I constantly struggle to take care of my children and I’m constantly struggling to buy groceries. BUT I TRUST YOU LORD! My husband died years ago. At times I feel so alone. I’m a single mom. I suffered an heart attack a year ago and I’m battling lupus so my health is failing. Both of my sons are autistic. I praise you Lord even as I constantly struggling to pay rent. Help me Jesus as I struggle to buy my children’s school supplies because I want to give up. I don’t know how I’m going to get through this, but thankfully I have you Lord! I know you will provide. Faith over fear! Praise God and his son Yeshua!
Don't give up just connect to the supreme God of the universe and then receive his love and spread his love to your family. All that matters is love and you have that. enjoy that love, Ensure that love is felt by those in your care
Bible References to give Christians
1. One Person Cannot Die for the Sins of Another
Exodus 32.30-35, Deuteronomy 24.16, Jeremiah 31.29-30, Ezekiel 18 (all), & Psalm 146.3
2. A Blood Sacrifice Isn’t Needed to Forgive Sins
Exodus 22.3-14, 34.6-7, Leviticus 5.11-13, Numbers 5.6-7, 14.17-19, 16.47 & 31.50, 1st Samuel 15.22, 1st Kings 8.38-39, 41-43, & 46-50, 2nd Kings 12.16, Isaiah 6.6-7, 55.6-7, Jeremiah 7.22-23, Hosea 14.2, Jonah 3.5-10, Micah 6.6-8, Psalm 32.3-5, 34.14, 51.16-17, 86.5-7 & 15, 103.8, 111.4, 116.5, Proverbs 21.3, 28.13, Job 33.26, & 2nd Chronicles 7.14
3. God Will Never Accept a Human Sacrifice
Deuteronomy 12.30-31, Jeremiah 19.4-6, Ezekiel 16.20, & Psalm 106.37-38
4. God is One & Indivisible (not a trinity)
Exodus 20.3, Deuteronomy 6.4, Isaiah 44.6, 45.5-7, & Psalm 16.4
See also the New Testament texts of Matthew 24.36, 26.42, Mark 13.32, Luke 18.19, 23.34, & John 14.28.
5. God Doesn’t Become Human, & Humans Don’t Become God
Numbers 23.19, Ezekiel 28.2, Hosea 11.9, & Malachi 3.6
Seems like you already know the truth. It's just useful for you to believe otherwise. That's fine, but your reasons are bad.
I have similar struggles. For me, leaving faith and ending the cognitive dissonances lifted some of the burden. The thing is, if you pray for God to help you, you cannot ignore the fact that it was He in the first place to give you these problems. Why? Why so cruel? You did nothing to deserve this. Salvation won't come from the one who gave you your struggles. Clinging to hope is like an abused wife pleading for her husband to stop hitting her. This hope is soul-destroying and does nothing to remedy the situation. This realisation set me free. Sure, I still have plenty of difficulties, but at least now I don't have to deal with the false hope my abuser will solve them.
Best wishes! 🫂
prove god exists first
« Koran » cannot « stand » without « Bible » … 🤔🤔🤔
And is not an « upgrade » of « Bible » 🤓🤓🤓
The standard narrative of Quran transmission has been questioned from WITHIN the Muslim world since 1400 years! The idea of the Uthmanic collection as being a definitive, standard version has been questioned by leading Muslim scholars from the lat 7th century onward.
Nasir Shaddy should do his homework! Rocks, sheets, or flat bones / scapular .. highly debatable and likely very wrong! The Seven Ahroof (al-ahroof as-sab'ah) has never been fully explained and was a very late invention - more like late 8th / early 9th century. This is typical of the faulty version narrative .. and, BTW, Bukhari was a bit of a crook anyway, so I wouldn't trust him, esp. about the history of the Quranic transmission!
The first compilations of the Quran was ONGOING during the life of Mohammad. The following is well-known:
1) First Quran compiler Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mohammad's cousin and later son-in-law. He even presented it publicly but caused an uproar as it was an annotated version that put some very important people got very upset as they appeared in a very bad light! The FIRST chapter (surah) was NOT what is now the first one. it was the first 6 lines of what is now Surah 96 (al-Alaq).
2) Second Quran compiler: Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, whose compilation eventually became the STANDARD in places like Kufah, Iraq, NOT the Uthmanic version - and this was there till the 10th century!
3) Ubayy ibn Ka'b was the third Quran compiler.
Interestingly. Uthman the 3rd caliph had a problem. There were these above Quran compilations (plus some minor ones) and did he solve the problem? Most of these Qurans were burnt! But NOT Ali's or Ibn Masud'a Quran. They continued to be used. The 10th century bibliographer and bookseller, Ibn Nadeem al-Baghdadi, writes about all this and EXTENSIVELY DISCUSSES them, specially Ibn Mas'ud's compilation. He visited Kufah and found that THIS was the one that was being used as the standard.
It's interesting how Ibn Masud's compilation is altogether avoided, even by supposed experts working the West where they should be free to talk about this without any fear or concern! For example the following was discussed by Jalauddin as-Suyuuti (d.1505 CE) as well as al-Shaukani (d. 1834 CE), both SUNNI scholars, and both discuss this openly:
يا ايها الرسول بلغ ما انزل اليك من ربك (*انّ عليا ًمولى المؤمنين*) وان لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته والله يعصمك من النلس
Surah al-Maa'idah, 67
" O'Prophet! Convey what has been revealed to you from your Lord *that Ali is the master of the believers* and if you do not then you have conveyed God's message, a God will protect you from the people (who mean harm)." [Surah al-Maa'idah, 67]
The part between the asterisk or bracket shown above was removed in the Uthmanic version! One could say that it was to be expected as this annuls the caliphate of not just Abu Bakr and Umar but Uthman himself!
It is not just Shias who claim that the Quran we have is incomplete. Shady Nasser *ought to know that Umar ibn al-Khattab, Aisha bint Abi Bakr, Abdullah Ibn Umar and their like, all said that the Quran is INCOMPLETE , and this is extensively written about by Muslim scholars from as early as the late 7th century onward* !
BTW, *Mohammad is mentioned by name in Armenian and Greek sources and he INCLUDED pagan Arabs resident in the city, in the document called the Understanding of Madina* !
You are a shia. You make up less than 10% of the Muslim ummah. You have some strange beliefs but I think this is a bit too much.
he is a shia
@@jj-yi1ne Irrelevant! BTW he is a Sunni, I hear, not that this matters either!
Please note that The New Testament is the mixture of 3 things written in Greek.
One, Injeel which is the word of God that was revealed to Jesus in his mother tongue, Aramaic,
Two, what Jesus said to his disciples and
Three what others saw in Jesus by the eye witnesses
It was a third party account of the above three.
In Islam, Quran is the revelation from God. Quran has the highest accuracy of preservation and canonised or compiled within 12 years after the death of the Prophet.
Hadeeth is what prophet Mohammed (pbuh) said, recorded in early second century after the death of the Prophet and
Seerah is the historical details of the prophet and his companions. Hadeeth is only accepted if authentic narrative is confirmed by reliable sources and Seerah is taken only at the historical context.
Quran is the only scripture that is available in the original Arabic script and it's preserved for thousands of years through memorisation. Its unique eloquent literary style makes it possible for memorisation and there are millions Quari or reciters of Quran all around the world now. That means if all written text of Quran is completely destroyed it can be reproduced to the original text from these Quari of Quran.
Only there is no evidence of this "Injeel" in Aramaic. No text that's supposedly revealed to Jesus has ever been found. In other words: it's not historical fact. Just a claim.
Koran is a false book
Thousands of years is an obvious false claim. Islam is only 1400 years old, so no thousands of years. Furthermore, Mohammed confirmed what was sent down before and said he believed in the Torah and the "injeel". If in doubt, believers should go to the people of the book.
Strangely there are contradicting parts in the quran. Since it seems implausible that a clear, eternal message from an all-knowing god would contradict itself, it seems likely that parts of the quran are either misunderstood and misinterpreted or that someone inserted verses or even suras. I'd rather look for the errors and contradictions among humans than blame god. Everything we are told, everything we read comes from other people. That is also true for the Bible and the Quran. In contrast to the Bible, which covers quite a large span of time by many authors, the Quran is said to have come from the teachings of Muhammed in the last part of his life. That means one should expect a more consisted and contradiction-free book, but, strangely, it's not. I think god can find better ways to tell us something, than badly written books. God is just and truthful, otherwise there would be no point in worshipping him. So if there are injustices and double standards in a book, it can't be from a just and truthful god. There may still be something interesting in it, but unjust punishment and unfair treatment are, at best, the work of some demon, not the message of a just and truthful God and without justice and honesty there is no reason to worship. Would you bow down to an unjust and deceiving god, who derives pleasure from punishing people after leading them astray? Could you trust and rely on any message he sends?
@AJansenNL Agreed that there is no historical record for Aramaic Injeel even though Quran mentioned that a scripture was given to Jesus in his mother tongue. However, we can make logical deduction. Aramaic was the mother tongue of Jesus. All his preachings to his deciples were in Aramaic. As you will agree, language is an important tool for understanding the message. Christianity at its inception was based in Aramaic by the Jewish Christians. Therefore, it is logical that teachings of Jesus were in Aramaic.
He even cried on the cross in his spoken language not in Greek l as “Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani,” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46).
The Christian writers of the first period mentioned the existence of the Gospel called "Logia", which means words, written in Aramaic. In addition, some Western scientists who started to research the Gospels beginning from the eighteenth century mentioned that there was one single Gospel before the current four Gospels emerged and that the current Gospels were written based on that Gospel. This was called Q-source. However, Aramaic manuscripts were lost and the earliest manuscript found was a credit card size copy of Greek Gospels in second century AD.
@@nakeebissadeen1606 The Q source is a hypothesis. Not a proven fact.
Scholars have different interpretations of what 'logia' means. It could be something like the christian equivalent of ahadith, or broader, any divinely inspired scripture. And divinely inspired is not the same as revelation. But all that is not even relevant. Sure, Jesus preached in Aramaic. And what he preached can be called "Good News" (the literal translation of Evangelion, where the word Injeel comes from). But there is still no evidence anything he said was ever immediately put to paper and existed in book form before decades later writers started to write down what they'd heard about Jesus and his teachings. So what is this Injeel the Quran refers to? A book nobody has ever seen and that never existed.
By the way, the Quranic narrative about the Torah is equally problematic. There is no such book that was revealed to Moses.
Go where the evidence leads you. Don't try to fit the evidence to your preconceived beliefs.
Islam / Quran has nothing to do with anything Abraham!
.. nothing ,
If you said so, sir
There is only one « variant » … « god » is not going to repeat himself seven times … 😆😆😆
But there's people claiming speaking and interpretating the truth for god and people never ever lie and people never ever having their own agenda?
Right?