STROPPING! Is it time we challenge this old sharpening "myth"?
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- www.faceedgewo...
If you want to challenge a "myth", first you need to fully understand the question that is being asked. In a recent recommended video I saw a presenter try to point out that a strop is not as effective as a sharpening stone.
Sadly, the presenter doesn't know what a stop is used for. In my opinion they have reached a conclusion that could be confusing to others or make them think that a stop is not useful.
Firstly we can never compare the action of a stop to that of a stone. If we choose to use a strop it must be as fine or finer than the last sharpening stone we use. If it's not finer we will just make our edge dull.
A stop works very differently to a stone. When used properly, It adds just adds an extra touch of finesse to an edge. Or it can be used to refresh an edge when doing precise work.
It would be foolish to try and take an edge tool to failure and then bring it back to life on a strop. A strop is too fine for this purpose! If you have used a tool and it is not performing as it should you need to go back to the stones and finish on the strop.
I find the most effective strops as not really soft squidgy things smeared it Tormek paste. Rather they work better when firm. A clean block of scrap wood. Leather bonded to a scrap of wood. These are effective.
If you want to add a compound to your strop, go ahead. But chose wisely. If you use an 8000grit shapton or similar stone, the Tormek paste will be more coarse and make the edge worse! Tormek is more like 7000 grit. Instead, consider Autosol or Green honing wax sticks and use sparingly!
You'll notice that there is no affiliate links here. All I'm trying to do is make you aware that proven methods such as the strop must not be casually dismissed by those that don't even understand how to test how effective a strop is!
You are accurate in identifying and cutting through the BS. I respect that immensely. There is no pretentiousness in your presentations, just the facts, clear and simple. I've found your channel a while back and wish you only the best for the future. Looking forward to what is still to come.
Still to come? Badly shot videos and poor editing 😂. Thank you though. There is some really useful stuff on YT but some of it is just plain bizarre.
I'm 90% sure I know which video ticked you off. Seen one this morning and immediately remembered watching yours two months ago. "Imaginary problem" is the best description for this you could have used. Never before that I heard that a strop alone would be used for sharpening, only as a finishing touch.
Hi Petr. Yes, I'm 90% sure you watched the video that "piqued" my interest 😂. I'll be back soon. Still working through the kitchen remodeling at home 👍
Hear, hear! With the voice of experience, you have diplomatically identified the flaw in the other video's "experiment". Thank you and well done!
Thanks Graham. It's a pretty simple concept really. I don't really know what the point of the video was.
So right, but it doesn't have to be leather either to do a "final polish" of the cutting edge! It can be just a piece of wood or even paper! And notice I did not use the word "strop", I said "final polish"! From 0.25 micron, all the way down to 14 micron (600 grit). If you do your final polish at that. It will also work and make a usable chisel! I don't strop and never have, and I get great edges on my chisels and kanna capable of 16 micron ribbons!
Strop and "stropping" is very much a traditionally passed down process step,passed down methodolog, not a requirement to a keen cutting edge! Columbus Michigan 🇺🇸
Really appreciate these videos. 👍
Thank you. It's been nice to connect with people that share the same interest.
Saw the same CZcams video you did. I think the "to an extent" comment you made is the key.
Seems like a few of us got hit by the click bait!
Short, clear and to the point. I appreciate that.
I encourage anyone out there still doubting the impact of a strop to look at the research done by the late Dr. Kraichuk of Knife Grinders Australia.
I'll take a look into that. Thanks for the feedback!
I am still experimenting.... There seem to be some who say that you should use the thin vegetable tanned cow hide, and thickness is measured in ounces with the thin stuff being 1 ounce. Saddle leather is much heavier, and can compress so your edge gets more rounded. One guy I know says to use 1 oz. kangaroo leather because it doesn't compress. I did have a piece of plywood, and it worked. Have some nice oak pieces, and some Pacific Madrone which is very even grained. I would be hesitant to use pine because of the early/late wood or some of it is harder and some of it is softer... I have seen grits now, up to 60,000. Then a friend told me to look into gem polishing compounds which go up to 200,000 grit. A bit much, I think.... Oh, if you put oil on the leather, it will actually soften it, so more rounding of the edge. I did find that stropping my skew chisel for turning made a huge difference. There is always some thing different to try....
200,000 grit!!! Blimey, that's fine 👌. As long as you don't strop with oceans of compound on a thick flexible strop and pretend it's a sharpening stone you'll be fine.
As someone who uses chisels, and planes in my daily working life, I will say that my stop is by far my most used item to just retain my sharp edges. I have found that I have gone literally 8+ months without having to ever go back to the stones through the use of a strop. Now that being said, that doesn't mean you can wear down your tools and use it as you have said in the video. The way I use a strop is I have it right next to my work area and every few passes or every minute or so I touch up the edge. I run a tormek sharpening system so I use the powered strop which is very quick and easy to just turn on and touch it to the wheel for 2 or 3 seconds after ever few cuts. It takes very little time out of the work and i never feel my edge dull because I keep it true. But on my hand planes as soon as I start to feel it go I go strait to the stones because usually by that time its too far gone for a strop.
I my experience I find that a strop is an absolute necessity for those who are doing fine woodworking as their job because you never want your tools to go dull to the point where the strop does not fix your issues because then your cuts are what suffer.
Zachery, it sounds like you take great care of your edges. As you rightly point out, the edge can't be abused if you're going to use a Strop like you do. Thanks for sharing your practical experience.
I am a completely new wood worker and YT can be extremely over whelming and even depressing for a person looking to learn. There are a couple good resources i have found on here but most are just shills for a tool company..
I know I want to work with hand tools and sharpening is one of those things that YT made very daunting for me, even Rob Cosmans 30 seconds to sharp video (or what ever its called) uses hundreds of dollars in different hones that most people simply cant afford to buy as a beginner.
Really enjoying your content that i have watched so far, so thank you.
Rob's a decent guy. But as you point out, the gear isn't within reach for many. For 90 percent of woodworking, a Norton fine India with a strop is fine. £30 perhaps? It always used to be okay? The options are great but aren't strictly necessary.
@@faceedgewoodworking I really appreciate you responding to all my comments so fast. May I ask what grit you sharpen too before strop? If you said that in the video I'm very sorry I missed it.
I found this Norton on Amazon but its 100/320. Is that to aggressive ?
@@viracocha03 It's no trouble. Look for the India IB8 if you want a twin sided stone. I'm not sure on the "fine" grit, 320 to 400 sounds about right. It'll work fine. I'm off into the Garage now. I'll see if I can do a quick video for you.
@@viracocha03 czcams.com/video/wbDOQZNSrfE/video.html 👍 A quick overview
@@faceedgewoodworking Wow, you just became my favorite channel on YT. I cant tell you how much I appreciate that. I have gotten worse customer service (for lack of a better term) with people I have payed to subscribe to in the past.
Again, thank you.
100%. I use a strop with chrox paste to keep a keen edge during work, but you WILL need to go back to a stone, sooner than most people think. If you don't your work will suffer, you will struggle. Flat out.
Hi Mike. It's reassuring to know people get this and are using the strop properly. I knew it would be the case but wanted to put a video out that countered some misleading info. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Uhm i am by no means even an amateur when it comes to sharpening edges but I even know that strops are for touch ups and refinements not actually taking an edge from a dull point or as he pointed out, failure. That's what the stones are for.
Yeah, but science 😂. I'm surprised I had to make the video.
If someone doesn't have anything to make a strop out of, or any paste or shredding list anything, you can strop off on a newspaper. The stack of paper is kinda hard enough, paper is abrasive, and whatever is in the ink helps the slip and cut. Cheap and nasty tactic (although again if you have nothing), is to just rake the new edge across some grain to tear the burr off, go back to the stones for a lick and do the cross grain thing again gently. Again that one is far from ideal but it'll help stop a wire edge.
Good point. Years back I did a demo for someone where I finish an edge using a honing guide on the pull stroke using paper as the abrasive. It worked for the reason you point out, it's a fine abrasive. A piece of paper works great for de-nibing a finish too 👍. Thanks for your comment.
@@faceedgewoodworking I had not considered using paper to de-nib. Will be trying that very soon because I've got something I want left unsealed but also as smooth as possible. So it's going to be a straight burnish with no product applied. Might raise grain, rub with paper, then burnish in. Thanks man.
@@benjaminzedrine A4 paper, an old envelope. It all works. Just avoid anything with print for fear of transferring to the piece. Just make sure it's just the final bit of finish required it's not a strong abrasive.
@@faceedgewoodworking Yeah meng I don't want to rub crap into it. I get annoyed with how bamboo soap holders get the black mould in them. Bamboo is like, totally susceptible to that type of mould. Why they make a bunch of bathroom stuff out of it is beyond me...well...I'm sure it's a cost effective product that you get to sell replacements for when they go black. Anyway. Got some Huon pine offcuts. Going to see how well it holds up against mould and bacteria left unsealed. Because it'll be almost constantly wet it'll be a good test of its mettle...woddle? Cough. Probably make a mess but I will obsessively try these things.
Have u tried David w's unicorn method yet? No need to fix what ain't broke however it's definitely worth a go. It's just a cotton wheel with green compound on a bench grinder. U can forgo the fine stone all together, just grind primary bevel, raise a burr on an India medium or other cheap stone then a quick buzz on the cotton wheel. It refines the edge like a fine stone and polishes like a strop all at once. It's fucking handy if like me u just want to go from the work, to the stone and back with as little time as possible. It must be said that I only do this when I need that extra level of sharpness, I'm usually quite happy to go straight to the India and strop my hand just to get the burr off.
No I haven't. David is someone I would always defer to in regards to the nuances of planes and chisels. That experience sounds like it has a lot going for it. My only thing is my paranoia for particulates! I like to avoid anything that makes dust.
@@faceedgewoodworking it does throw a bit of crap around but I don't sharpen on my bench (mostly) so can avoid it for the most part. To be honest you'd be lucky to see particulates on my bench with all the other stuff on it. You'd actually be lucky to see a bench there at all most of the time lol
@@elguitarolerno 😂 a busy bench is good! I like a stone and a strop. David's recommendation of a Washita works well but I also like to demonstrate with a fine India because they're so dirt cheap.
@@faceedgewoodworking still learning how to get the best from my (supposed) washita, got to say I don't find it much different to my medium India, a bit quicker maybe but that's it so far. A good shout are the rozutec stones from workshop heaven. Very fine but quite quick and you can dress it with sandpaper to cut faster. Mine I dressed with 40 grit paper on glass one side and the other is super smooth. Cuts like a beast but still leaves a nice edge then flip over and polish. Brilliant stone for £40
@@elguitarolerno £40 is very reasonable. Sounds like it works like a champ! I don't have an "excuse" to buy one just yet...
I had to actually seek out the video to find it. I feel like he wanted to make something similar to the massive plane and chisel sharpening tests that wood by wright has done, but unfortunately misunderstood the purpose of stropping and undermined the premise of his entire video. The weirdest thing for me is the number of people in the comments praising his scientific approach.
It has taken me quite a while to find a preferred sharpening method - I have the veritas mark II honing guide that was bought for me as a present, and I used it with "scary sharp" for a while. I found the hassle put me off sharpening as often as I should. These days I use a coarse diamond stone for restoring primary bevels, and fine oil stone followed by a strop for the honing. I do it all freehand as much as possible unless I am restoring an old tool (or my freehanding gets a bit off the mark) where I use the guide for restoring the correct angle. I find this to be much quicker and as a result I sharpen "little and often", and I actually enjoy the process now rather than it feeling like a chore.
Tim, it sounds like you have a nice set up. Simple and quick, what's not to like!
The comments were odd. Blind leading the blind? An edge measuring tool doesn't make science 😂.
I did try and watch the chisel video a while back but I didn't rate it. All these people seem really decent and genuine and I hope they continue to put out content. But it leaves me a little cold. I can't figure out who actually knows anything, who's just selling stuff, it's a mess.
Over this year I aim to add more to the portfolio on my website and do videos as and when I can. I will offer more in depth content in time but for now shorter vids are all I can do.
@@faceedgewoodworking I started to watch the chisel one shortly after I had been bought an expensive set of chisels for my 40th, but then I realised that I didn't care. So what if X chisel holds it's edge better? If mine blunt I can touch the edge up in 30 seconds, they are comfortable in my hand, and when I use them it makes me think of the people who bought them for me.
I feel like there is a lot of noise in woodworking on youtube.
When I first got interested in it, thought I had to buy all these power tools and have a massive workshop - but I'm just a guy making stuff out of wood in my spare time for pleasure, I don't need any of that, all I need is some hand tools and some quiet time in the workshop.
it's the same with certain products where it feels like there is a lot of group think - it seems like everyone recommends a certain hard wax oil brand instantly when someone asks what finish to use, with no consideration of the specific requirements the person has, no nuance in comparing why you might use one over another.
Sorry for long comments!
"and then I realised I didn't care". Give that man a medal 🏅! Your longer responses are appreciated. It shows some poor soul is watching 😂.
There aren't really any bad chisels out there. Knowing what to look for is more important. Good woodworking books could do that within a couple of paragraphs. We've lost our way!
I saw that video and I thought their basic premise was BS too. One idea I've come around to over time is sharpening a little often. I always want to be using the very sharpest tools so it makes no sense to wear an edge down until it is blunt before sharpening it again. When you know what you're about sharpening is no big deal. Just keep up with it.
Yeah, it didn't make sense on any level. Good place to post affiliate links though.
@@faceedgewoodworking it was like do something the wrong way for the wrong reasons and get a poor result. Who'd have thunk it?
@@1pcfred you've described my modus operandi 😂
@@faceedgewoodworking yeah maybe but it works for you.
I agree, but I also stopped using a strop because of how cheap high grit stones have got, after 3k grit I find removing that small burr to be a waste of time.
What stones are you using?
@@faceedgewoodworking the cheapest king water stones i can find, I like that they are soft and you can flatten them with another stone. I go from 1k to 6k grit and that's it. I would probably use diamond stones if i had to do the whole bevel without a power grinder, but that's cheaper than some diamond stones.
@@HdtvTh It's very interesting you say that. I want to put a video together for good value sharpening. For the waterstone option I went for a cheap 1000grit diamond plate and a 6000grit king. Anything above 6k gets pricey.
Solid content. +1 subscription
Thanks! Appreciate the sub!
I saw his video too, and was curious why the strop was leather that thick, of course it will round when you're stropping on something that thick with little density
I can give him the benefit of the doubt. I've made myself look a clown before and I'll do it again. It's just worthwhile knowing that strops are good when used properly. Not as an instead of a sharpening stone.
@@faceedgewoodworking to add, if you're someone who likes to go to a very high stone then a strop may not even be useful. For those who take their edge to an 8, 10, 12,000 or whatever grit, there probably isn't a reason to own an strop other than speed between those sharpenings if it's sitting nearby
@@jgo5707 I tend to agree. A strop has the benefit of being very cheap and accessible. 8000grit is a lovely edge. Go finer? Sure, but it becomes less worthwhile. What stone do you finish up with?
@@faceedgewoodworking I'm not sure! I'm about to play with a new stone, I had simply stopped at a 1k diamond stone but im going to experiment later this week with a 5k ceramic stone, I don't much care for strops. I got a free 16k glass stone but I'll be honest, i have no interest in using it so I'm considering selling it to buy something more practical
@@jgo5707 Nice score on the glass stone! The karamako shapton's are good value. I've tried them and liked they seem good. I don't quite understand the benefit of a glass stone?
Some of the stuff on youtube is getting ridiculous, especially in the woodworking genre. That's why I started watching magnet fishing, now that football season is over :D. The Lions will make the playoffs next season :)
😂 That ain't never gonna happen 🏈😂. Some of the stuff isn't even entertainment, it's just sales done badly. "Watch me cut through this shoe/can with a kitchen knife" garbage 😂
So right, but it doesn't have to be leather either to do a "final polish" of the cutting edge! It can be just a piece of wood or even paper! And notice I did not use the word "strop", I said "final polish"! From 0.25 micron, all the way down to 14 micron (600 grit). If you do your final polish at that. It will also work and make a usable chisel! I don't strop and never have, and I get great edges on my chisels and kanna capable of 16 micron ribbons!
Strop and "stropping" is very much a traditionally passed down process step,passed down methodolog, not a requirement to a keen cutting edge! Columbus Michigan 🇺🇸
So right, but it doesn't have to be leather either to do a "final polish" of the cutting edge! It can be just a piece of wood or even paper! And notice I did not use the word "strop", I said "final polish"! From 0.25 micron, all the way down to 14 micron (600 grit). If you do your final polish at that. It will also work and make a usable chisel! I don't strop and never have, and I get great edges on my chisels and kanna capable of 16 micron ribbons!
Strop and "stropping" is very much a traditionally passed down process step,passed down methodolog, not a requirement to a keen cutting edge! Columbus Michigan 🇺🇸
Hi Steve, thanks for watching. Yes, I've used newspaper and even refined an edge with a scrap of MDF. Heaven knows why someone would choose a fat floppy piece of blubber smeared in Tormek paste. Thanks for sharing your experience!