Do American Fire Trucks Need To Be So Massive? - Cheddar Explains
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 11. 2022
- The average American fire truck is huge in comparison to its international counterparts. This size is the result of a hundred years of evolution in firefighting, but today the scale might actually be causing more problems.
Connect with Cheddar!
On Facebook: chddr.tv/3JmGgBe
On Twitter: chddr.tv/3qaYQog
On Instagram: chddr.tv/36u8tqY
On Cheddar.com: chddr.tv/37GycgL
Further reading:
BLOOMBERG
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
WALL STREET JOURNAL
www.wsj.com/articles/SB981497...
STREETSBLOG
usa.streetsblog.org/2018/05/2...
usa.streetsblog.org/2018/07/1...
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CITY TRANSPORTATION OFFICIALS
nacto.org/2018/12/06/nacto-vo...
NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
www.nfpa.org/News-and-Researc... - Věda a technologie
It’s cool how they made this whole video from a 10 minute Google search instead of talking to anyone remotely involved in firefighting
It’s wild how they used Beaufort, SC as a good example of cost cutting (even though the city is comically poor, shrinking, and sits right next to the ocean in one of the rainiest places in the US).
This whole video is a mess. San Francisco’s fire trucks are visibly and empirically less efficient than their larger counterparts, in a city with famously small/convoluted streets (i.e. those trucks were shrunk out of infrastructural necessity, not choice).
Also, it’s just weird how they used the percentage of fire-related EMS calls as an argument. Presuming that each fire in question could threaten say, an average of $100k worth of property (that’s probably an understatement given the average household value in the US - even more so in cities, and the dynamics of fires), that’s like $100+ billion in cost savings.
Well, they had a degree in (insert arts & humanities major). So therefore they know what's good for blue-collar workers & tradespeople. 😏
why would they want smaller? you cant block the ambulance very well with a tonka toy
Thats not quite fair, they needed at least an hour to get all the footage and so on. The research however might have been that short.
Exactly.
Coming from Singapore, the "Red Rhino" mentioned in the video isn't the typical fire-fighting vehicle for use in the SCDF (which holds responsibility for fire-fighting service). It was designed for certain situations in certain environments. The SCDF does operate full-sized fire-fighting vehicles, which can be quite massive and heavy. Different types of fires call for different tools.
I'm from singapore too as a mrt enthusiast
Depending on the apparatus used, but if we are speaking generally as a normal fire call. Pump ladder is quite sort of a little small sized then other countries in my opinion.
A Tanker in the US is solely for water transport for places with no on source water in the US. The Small pickup truck size 300 US gal to the Big ones you see used in the movies 1,300 US Gal.
Thats the US Definition of a Tanker Truck. We also have On-Road and Off-Road Tankers, Flightline, Fuel Yard/Storage, HAZMAT which is loaded with chemicals and not water. just a TON of vehicles now adays. Like I said back in the 80's -90's there were just 3 types, The General Fire Truck, Tanker and Ladder. NOW even my county has condensed the Fire Houses and have like 20 different types for all uses, from my arm is trapped to half the city is burning down.
I also looked up to be sure IF I was right about the 200 foot ladder. I was wrong, We DID have one but it became unsafe so they scrapped it and are now looking at the German one. A Bucket (2 Fire Fighters) to 300 foot with a Directional Hose. The Tallest Ladder is 140 feet (14 stories) that can do Rapid Evacuation of a building.
The Red Rhino's official name is the Light Fire Attack Vehicle (LFAV) & can be thought of as a mini fire-engine (its built on a Isuzu D-Max pickup chassis). 4-6 generations of it have already been built in its ~17 yr history including some even smaller 2-seater versions. I believe they're designed to be 1st-responder vehicles that can reach a fire more quickly than regular fire engines, not only because they're lighter, but also as they're small enough to fit into smaller fire stations called fire posts, which are more numerous in number (they're also often found at the foot of apartment buildings, instead of being in a standalone building as with fire stations (although newer stations often have space to accommodate a police station too) & thus more likely to be closer to the scene of a fire. The Red Rhinos are also likely more ideal for firefighting in areas consisting of mostly shophouses (usually in historic parts of downtown or in inner suburbs), where the roads are narrower
@@lzh4950 yeah, Singapore ambulance and fire calls can often be two-pronged. They might send red rhinos, or paramedics on a bike ahead as a first responder, before a full sized fire engine or ambulance arrive later. I remembered they also had a fleet of firefighters with a tank on their back on motorcycles at some point. Helpful with small fires such as a bin or car fire.
Recently retired city firefighter (1984-2015) and when I started firetrucks were half the size they are now. With each new model, the size was born out of the amount of stuff you were required to carry. Back in 1984 all we had to carry was fireman stuff. Now, firetrucks are basically non-transport ambulance/firetruck/extrication vehicles. Cheddar showed a marked lack of research in this video. Many fire departments, tired of wearing out their $750,000 custom rigs, have moved a lot of the medical things to a Chevy Suburban type vehicle. Firetrucks keep much of the same medical equipment on the rig but now keep the engine behind and let the rescue take the brunt of the calls.
I totally agree that fire departments today do so much more than firefighting. So vehicles need more space. Also, the EPA has created emissions regulations that require larger cabs to make room for the technology that is used to meet those regulations.
Further, many communities lack hydrants so tankers or pumper tankers are required as fire departments must manufacture their own water supply.
The makers of this video should become firefighters and then they would change their viewpoint.
So many of these arguments are either or. I have always seen these as "and". Like why use a 4lb hammer when a 12oz will work better, but you keep the 4lb one around for when it's needed.
Yes, but how manage European trucks, which are smaller, to be equipped with about the same equipment, depending on the region same size water tank etc.? (Yes, if hydrants are readily available on some trucks they use smaller tanks around here, but then sizes and equipment across German fire departments for example are in general standardized. And if the city is such big, they have to have such amount and size of trucks etc.)
unless you started on a two-piece engine company, they aren’t much bigger. ladder trucks are bigger but that’s due to the improvements in stabilization and use of dual rear axels that resulted from when lives were lost.
With the advent of electric vehicles the need for foam units has never been greater. A truly staggering amount of water is needed to put out a battery fire because the water reacts with the lithium and creates hydrogen which feeds the fire. Foam separates the reaction from the fire, knocking it down swiftly. A hundred gallons of foam does the job of many thousands of gallons of water. For many departments the cost of buying foam units is simply insupportable with all the other things that fire departments are required to do.
I am so thankful a channel that knows nothing about the industry, tells the industry they're wrong
Exactly.
@@couchpotatoes5158 The truck size only really matters if you have a really crowded city, however for departments like mine we do just well with (almost) all-purpose rigs.
The final S in the word "chassis" is silent. Its supposed to sound like chassy or shassy
I came to the comments section for this reason.
This was driving me crazy the whole video
I had to double-take to check that I wasn’t mishearing that
Came here to comment. Glad I wasn’t the only one it annoyed at iy
I mean they _are_ speaking English, not French.
It's important to add that the Red Rhinos in Singapore is not our ONLY fire truck. We also have a ladder equipped larger vehicle. (In case anybody wishes to point out how does our firemen reach high rise fires.)
? Kk
yeah, I did think it was a bit stupid to say that you only drive around in an SUV!
US have big car
Don’t worry she completely fucked up accurately portraying US apparatus as well. For example my department has two engines(the big trucks), a tinder(water tanker), and 6 various smaller apparatus(Pickups or SUVs) all of our neighboring departments are similar. Unlike what this video leads one to believe.
Different fires on different buildings or structures call for different variants of fire trucks.
I work near an airport, so during annual fire drills, I can see a firetruck called a crash tender respond.
The fact that the thumbnail has a New South Wales fire engine (Australian) with the EU flag behind it has given me all the information I need to know
0:14 I love how they made the "American fire trucks look old" comment while showing a video of a fire truck built in 1992 (one that has since been retired from the FDNY's fleet for over 10 years)
The new ones are coming out are bigger and fancier and they look amazing
As a firefighter in America I’d like to give my take and hopefully clear things up here.
I understand all departments are different and have different needs and capabilities depending on what you have in your area. Some being rural, some being in the city, some being somewhere in between.
My engine is 31’ 9” In length. 11’ 9” tall. We have 2,135 total feet of hose on board. We have 1032 gallons of water on board. We can flow 1500 gallons of water a minute at 150 PSI.
In my department, every compartment of a our engines are pretty much the same all around.
On the driver side, our first compartment is called the “Engineers compartment.” This compartment has different nozzles/ extra nozzles that we can use to help fight the fire. Different nozzles can help I’m different ways. We can change/ swap nozzles out that can give more reach, and more GPM. We also have attachments that can allow us to make foam. In this compartment, we have hose that are 25’ in length (in case the hydrant is near by) so we don’t have to pull another line off the back that is much longer. We keep a tool box that has standard tools. We have a water cooler, scene tape, duct tape, markers, ect.
Our second compartment is our tool compartment. We have everything from pry bars, flat head axe, pick head axe, sledge hammer, lock out kit (to open locked car doors), and other tools.
We have a 3rd compartment that has chainsaws (to cut trees) vent saw (chain saw that is meant to cut holes in roofs to help with ventilation on a house fire. Oil dry for car wrecks, push brooms for cleaning a scene up (works to help spread the oil dry), tarps, tubs for salvaging things (typically on a house fire), forestry rakes, extra oil and fuel for saws. We have k12 saw and extra blades for it. Ground monitor, portable hydrant, ect.
Our back compartment, we have a fan (for ventilation on CO calls and for pushing smoke out of a home). We have a junction box that’s pretty much a really long extension cord. Portable scene lights. Hydrant bag ( bag that has tools to turn hydrant on and flow water) this bag also has adapters and hydrant wrenches, spanned wrenches, flash light, adapters, gate valves, ect.
We have a ladder compartment that has two 10’ pike poles. Two 6’ NY hooks. Back board. 24’ extension ladder. 14’ roof ladder. 10’ attic ladder.
We have a compartment with extrication equipment. We have a spreader (jaws of life). Cutter (to cut cars open). Long and short Ram with support ( push dash). Chains for stabilizing a car. Window cutter (cuts windshields primarily). We have a hydraulic power generator to give power to cutters, spreaders and rams. We also have airbags that allow us to raise a car if a patient is trapped under the car. We can also use the airbags to lift the car and place wood blocks under the car to help stabilize. We carry 20 blocks and more other wedges (called cribbing). We have ratchet straps and plenty of webbing.
Next compartment we have medical equipment. We have a Zoll monitor that can give us vitals and shock a patient in cardiac arrest. We have medical bag with IV kits, life saving drugs, gauze and other life saving equipment. We have also an airway bag that contains everything from a nasal cannula to even where we can intubate a patient if needed.
We are all Hazmat Technicians in my department. We also specialize in technical rescue. These are very few of the many things we have on our Engines. About 95% of our calls are EMS related. And 5% are Fire related.
We respond to all EMS calls. Reason being is we can just have extra hands for the EMS crew. A lot of times, the EMS crew is far away. If we respond and are on scene within 5 minutes, we can get a lot done with the patient before the ambulance arrives. We care for the patient and a lot of times, the patient is ready for transport by the time the ambulance arrives on scene.
Everything on our trucks are needed and vital. We pretty much can handle nearly everything with what we have. Everything we have as far as space for tools is jam packed in there. Every bit of room we have is used.
To end this long comment, we hope not to use anything and pray for the safety of our citizens, however, if anything happens, we are there and are ready.
Pretty much what my dept carries, great minds think alike. You certainly can’t carry all that on a European or Asian apparatus!
Thank you for setting things straight, and thanks for doing what you do. I wonder how many European firemen have to "make do" or do without in situations where an American truck would already have the equipment.
@@Altema22 different trucks for different emergencies. You dont need a huge ladder for someone with a heart attack. An ambulance is enough. Often Departements in a City have their Main vehicle with a Water Tank and allround equipement, a ladder truck and a Pioneer vehicle. Firefighters can act as first responders but normal Ems calls go the ambulance which is seperated from the firedepartement
@@Altema22 There are different trucks for different kinds of emergencies. For example in Germany the HLF is used for emergencies where you primarily need tools or spreaders and cutters and that kind of stuff. For emergencies which involve actual fires, there's the TLF which has a water tank on board to bridge the gap between arriving on scene and finding a water source. If both of these trucks go to a scene usually the vehicle more suitable for the emergency goes first and the other drives behind it so they don't block the more important truck.
Thats a nice list, but I have to say, the HLF in Germany can do ALL of this as well and is way way smaller than an American Firetruck, we may don't have as many ladders on a truck but we have 1 modular and one longer ladder. For everything that is taller than the ladders can reach the ladder truck is responding.
Our HLF got a tank of 1.600L (423 Gallons) of Water with us and 120L (31 Gallons) of foam concentrate on the truck.
The ladder truck got (if it´s new) a second joint up front to get in the basket in even tighter spaces.
I am a EMT and worked for 2 Years as one. I just started the 3 Year School education the be a Notfallsanitäter (Paramedic) in Frankfurt. I am in the Volunteer fire department (not in Frankfurt) but I am worked many times with the firefighters in Frankfurt, they got Drugs on there Firetrucks as well and got a Paramedic on board but the don't respond to medical calls on a regular basses, the dispatcher only dispatches them if the got a ongoing resuscitation on the phone or an Ambulance is calling for help at a resuscitation.
I think the big difference is that we also got a small car (7 of that in Frankfurt) wich is called NEF wich is transporting a Doctor to the Cene, the driver of the Doc is a Paramedic, so you got 4 Persons on Cene: 1 EMT, 2 Paramedics, 1 Doctor. Just so I know, do you got something like this ?
To come to an end: We can do as much as you can with our HLF, and the trucks are way way smaller
I think the main difference is in coverage. In the Netherlands you have basically two categories of vehicles: General response and specialized ones. The general response truck has the generic equipment, and if you need more the dispatcher will call in a specialized vehicles from a nearby station.
We also use swap bodies for the special equipment which means having one or more trucks getting all the necessary boxes in a shuttle service instead of cramming it in one vehicle.
And with the distances we have, there's almost always an airport vehicle close enough if thing really get out of hand.
There are only like 10 active airports in the whole of the Netherlands though... Many cities are over an hour drive from a capable airport.
@@andrewlalis If a fire is so big that you need an airport firetruck then its lost anyways. Let it burn and save the sorrundings
@@andrewlalis they do show up with some of these trucks sometimes, had a pillar of smoke pass by my school once, on the news was an airport truck busy helping out, with fires that size you'll also spend a lot of time getting it out
@@andrewlalis Actually, according to ICAO regulations, so long as it is an airport, fire services are mandatory and it has to be able to reach every spot of the airport within a certain limit of time, so a small airport like the ones in rural america has to have the same standard of fire fighting capabilities and responding speed as an airport as large as Chicago or JFK, thus even uncontrolled airfields have fire fighters, thus the mandatory fire service is also one reason why operating a small airport is so expensive as even an airport like St Helena will need to have the same fire fighting services provided at Heathrow airport, and since most days airport fire trucks aren't actually called upon, so it's not surprising for them to come out to help with fire while testing whether their equipment works
It's not only that, it's the fact that EU law is very strict on vehicle sizes and firefighting trucks are kept within the same size as an ordinary truck. Also the combo of general response (tankautospuit), general tooltrucks (HV's), cherry pickers and hook arm trucks carrying a whole range of different things from extra pumps and hoses to a mobile crisis center is a great way to create smaller trucks. Sure, you might need an extra truck on scene when something happens but because of the coverage and the way the cities are designed this is almost never a problem. One thing I also find strange with US firetrucks (also EMT) is the fact that they don't use blue light, to me they don't stand out in the traffic at all looking at videos of them. The blue light that is on all emergency vehicles in Europe stand out and it's immediately clear that something is coming.
I like how they mainly show FDNY rigs, some of the biggest for a reason.
As a retired American firefighter allow me to repeat what a visiting firefighter from Germany once told me about American fire engines: Americans design their fire engines with two views - one is how it performs fighting a fire, and the other is how it looks in a parade!
However, the type of engines you have is more dependent on the type of fire department you are. A larger department with closer stations can afford to run smaller units because help - and specifically additional equipment - is closer to hand; but a department with fewer stations spread further apart (especially with fewer personnel) can't afford to leave much back at the station when the alarm sounds. The same can be said for fire units that are also overly-specialized.
From reading the comments it seems like most of the blowback on the video comes from firefighters. Being a firefighter in a moderate to large sized city, I would say that, while presumably well intentioned, the video oversimplifies a number of issues. One easy example would be traffic related accidents. While it's easy in a vacuum to argue that larger fire service vehicles could lead to more traffic related accidents due to their size, the reality is that a lot of citizens don't respond appropriately when emergency vehicles come through. Granted some parts of any given city or parts of the country respond better than others, I can personally attest that not everyone follows the rules. While driving in lights and sirens to fires or other emergencies, I've had civilians cut me off, follow the rig in its blind spot, try to speed past the rig to get ahead of the slow down, among other things. The reality, like is almost always the case, is more nuanced than a brief video can account for. Just food for thought.
The video didn't talk at all about fire trucks being dangerous to other drivers, they talked about how they are dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists. Fire trucks are massive and have big blind spots, so they are a serious hazard for vulnerable road users. Their stopping distances are longer than smaller vehicles, so they cannot react as fast. That is not an oversimplification, it is the truth. If firefighters are supposed to save lives, they shouldn't be driving dangerous and hostile machines that can hurt people
If possible you design a system so people can't fuck up, much easier to vary truck size then to alyer human behaviour. Do you think if you'd transplanted oversized American trucks to say, Spain cycling and pedestrian fatalities would be somehow lower because people would respect the red loud behemoth more?
Also Progressives think everything is better in Europe. We should be like them. .... Um Yeah, Okay.
Good intentions? Bro... it's a propaganda video. There are no good intentions here. The message the video is trying to send is "Be more like Europe even though you don't need to be".
@@gebys4559 They're not oversized though. They work extremely well for how our cities are laid out. I don't think American fire trucks would work in most European cities due to old city layouts and smaller streets. That's why these videos are always so damn annoying, they're just Eurocentric nonsense. All of them start out with the assumption that Europe is better, even though it's never really explained how or why. We are not Europe. We do not need to be like Europe. Our cities do not have the constraints that European cities have.
Cheddar - American fire trucks are not 10’ wide as stated at 4:06. They average 8’ to 8.5’ and carry a diverse inventory for multiple emergencies.
You should have considered interviewing the various fire departments to see what type of equipment they carry and why so much.
The amount of equipment doesn't justify the size. Almost every European Engine or Ladder houses more equipment than their US counterparts. On most US vehicles the compartments are half empty.
@@Mike25654 If you can figure out how to cram 3300 gallons of water and a 1500gpm pump on a short euro pumper, I'll buy three of them. Make room for extrication tools too.
@@rogerpitre8663 I think we both know that most of what you wrote has very limited applicability so I don't know why you did it.
Anyways, I don't know where you live to have 3300 gallon engines. Most two axle standard engines like in New York or LA carry around 500 gallons. Bigger three axle engines in rural areas carry around 1500 gallons most of the time. The majority of US engines is gonna be made up of these two types. So again I would be very curious to know where you live.
Of course there are a few engines with huge water tanks. But they are not the norm. Likewise there are Euro engines with 3500 gallon tanks and more, but they are also not the norm.
It is hard to argue the fact that the standard European engine carries the same amount of water, the same amount of hose, more ladders and far more extensive technical equipment as compared to the Standard US engine while beeing a fraction of the size.
Don't get me wrong. I love US firefighting. The look of the rigs, the Q sirens, the helmets, the crosslays and hosebeds, the roof cutting. Yet there are safer, quicker and more efficient ways to do the job nowadays with firefighting equipment that already exists in almost every other country in the Western World apart from Canada and the US.
The point of videos like these are to shit on the American way of life, not to actually consider topics or come to any conclusions. I mean hell, they gave all the reasons why American fire trucks are larger at the start of their video, but by the end of the video the topic morphs into "Stop being the way you are, America, be more like Europe even though you don't have the constraints Europe has"
@@weazel4945 I don't see why having a constructive discussion based on facts is "shitting on something". I do think that European firefighters can learn a lot from the US and vice versa.
To be honest they gave no real reason as to why the trucks are bigger but carry less equipment because there is no real reason apart from tradition. As with many things in US firefighting. I mean the LAFD still uses wooden ladders in 2022...😂
As a firefighter from Germany, we usually use compact vehicles. In my town we had for some times bigger vehicles like 6 wheeled vehicles(if you wanna see Google:Duisburg fire department HLF). These were huge vehicles but in some places not really practical. After all we use vehicle combinations like the HLF which is technically a squad in the US. Every department has one except smaller volunteer brigades in villages for example. The average brigade has one convoy for emergency operations. One Squat vehicle with 6 men, one ladder with 2 men and one engine with two men and at least one ambulance. Depending on the department sometimes two squats or the engine has 4 men. This is the minimum of vehicles per fire house. Volunteer fire houses have minimum one engine or squat and one troop vehicle. For special emergencies some fire houses have specialised vehicles. I am a volunteer, my fire house has one Squat, one engine and one troop vehicle.
From where are you. In my region the standard truck is the LF 20 / LF 10 in combination with a RW and more rural departements have a TSF-W.
@@nicolasmarazuela1010 as I said, Duisburg. I mentioned it
And if we need only need a ladder in Germany, for example for transporting a patient out of a building, we only need to send the ladder and a personnel transport vehicle.
I live in a rural community where the tanker truck is really needed. That's what trucks are so dang big
Really just glossed over all the actuall details and differences between US and Euro fire departments and how they function differently at a fundamental level... nice
Europe good. America bad
I feel the need to comment on this matter, as I’m a firefighter in Chile, South America, where we have both EN (European) and NFPA (American) standard fire apparatuses, so I can often directly compare their capabilities.
Though NFPA trucks are generally larger than European ones, that’s not the only factor that has to be taken in consideration to conclude which is better.
My station has been assigned an EN engine, a Rosenbauer AT3 on a MAN chassis. After 5 years of use, most of us think that it underperforms for the needs we have, compared to the American engines. It has been clearly made for a less aggressive kind of firefighting, and has way lesser quality components in key areas, with an extensive use of plastic that easily gives way under heavy use.
The chassis is a commercial one, that hasn’t been thought for the particular needs that we have as firefighters, so it DOESN’T have as powerful brakes as a custom made engine, it doesn’t have a gearbox made for constant acceleration and deceleration and, most importantly, the cab is not as strong in case of a collision, which for us is one of the biggest concerns, as we put our lives on the line every time we leave our station to attend an emergency (of any kind, not just fires), so we want our equipment to be as safe as possible in case things go the wrong way.
Performance wise, American engines are far better, the split shaft pumps can put out massive amounts of water per minute compared to European PTO pumps, so, for large fires, or even for knocking out small fires fast, there is no comparison.
Also, European engines are not necessarily shorter, because, as they have no hose beds, we need to carry hose on large reels that are mounted in the back, adding at least 1.5m to the overall length of the truck.
One last thing I’d like to point out, is that NFPA cabs are larger, and as we mostly have cabs with seating for 8 firefighters, they are far more comfortable for us, specially when in full gear (as we use NFPA bunker gear, which is bulkier)
Regarding ladder trucks, I won’t even comment, their is just no comparison between EN and NFPA standards. I can only say that our NFPA ladders, towers and snorkels far outperform EN ones.
Also, American trucks are not outdated, they have a more traditional look (which we like a lot), but are just as if not more technologically advanced than their European counterparts.
Generally, the consensus over here is that American custom made apparatuses are far better for the job, and we’ve been shifting to buy them instead of European ones, even if more expensive.
So, the only points in favor of Euro trucks would be that they are less expensive, and maybe, that they make more efficient use of the space for tooling, based on their overall footprint.
Thank you for pointing this out. Outlets like Cheddar just have an unusual lust for anything European and they’ll take something they don’t know about (firefighting) and just try and frame the US version as “so backwards and small minded and old fashioned”
I think the plastic bit is mostly related due to it being a MAN chassis. MAN fire trucks are not that common in EU, it's mostly Scania, Mercedes or DAF
I feel the need to give my two cents as a European firefighter myself. The engine having important parts made from plastic is down to it being a Rosenbauer. They safe Costa that way (and it's one of the reasons I don't like them very much) Ziegler or Schlingmann would have been a far better choice from my experience. The MAN chassis would also have been fine, he'd the right one been chosen. Our latest engine is built in a TGM 4x4 chassis. The brakes are perfectly fine and the Tipmatic gearbox has two modes. In its base mode it's already shifting up and down quite rapidly and in emergency response mode (which we rarely use) it shifts even faster. I personally feel like the hose reels are a more elegant solution than having the hose on the back of the truck as with a hosereel it's less exhausting to lay the hose as opposed to dragging longer stretches of hose from the back of the truck. We also have about 16 type B hoses stored in deployment cases over the pump giving us the ability to deploy 400m of hose from the moving vehicle (in addition to the 275m on the hosereel and 125m of single hoses) we have 2140lnof water on board which is more than enough to start the initial attack while one team establishes a water supply. Ziegler also has an option to have every area equipped with SCBA (we only chose to have four in the back) since we already have a heavy rescue truck the new one was specced out for firefighting primarily so we ommited the jaws of life in favour of having a mobile pump. We have two ladders on the roof (7ish m and 12.7m respectively) the rear of the truck can be lowered pneumatically to aid with putting the hosereel back on, the pump can be set to hold a certain exit pressure and can push through 2000l a minute though I don't think we've ever needed that much output. We have a backup camera as well as a dead zone monitor and the lights can be operated from the cab or the pump plus we don't need intercoms because the whole thing is quiet enough to allow for normal communication.
Stay safe, thanks for putting your life on the line!
Thank you for your service and sharing your first hand experiences. Be safe out there!
It's funny how they made this whole video from a Google search, Google docs, and redbull without talking to anybody who would actually know something important.
Love how the thumbnail compares a engine too a whole ass tiller😂
FRR
Fr longest fire truck to a euro engine
I always love hearing from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about
Something not mentioned here is the difference in the actual fires themselves. In Europe most of the construction is old brick with a lot of heavy wood used in flooring making the fires there burn longer and not as hot. This allows local FDs to use lower volumes of water because the water inside a brick room flashes to steam which fills the room and because of the sturdy build cannot escape. In the event of a large industrial fire they have specialized trucks that are as large as American firetrucks. In the US we build most of our structures very thinly, and using many plastics, which make our fires burn much faster and much much hotter. It also allows the steam vapor which could be putting out the fire to escape. Most US fire trucks come with a 1500gpm pump and it is not uncommon to use every single gallon. Quite simply we need to throw much more water on the fire than Europeans. Fire science is pretty neat stuff to learn about!
depends a lot on the country; Thus in Sweden and Norway most houses are built out of wood and are kind of light-weight construction similar to the US
not really fires here can get equally big and in case of germany most houses are build with stone and concret + really sturdy. In general we use a similar amount of water on fires as the US does. The reason why i say similar is because we do a lot more to prevent fires from happening and spreading then the US. Certain types of building materials arent allowed anymore cause of their temperature when they burn and the way they spread the fire. Thats also the reason why most newer houses (bigger citys have exceptions) need at least 3 meters of space from the property border and at least 5 meters of space to the next building. There are exceptions like double houses or wall-to-wall stuff in city centres.
American houses are also massive compared to European standards. A fire in an American home could very well require significantly more water to put out.
@@matts1166 depends a lot on the country and area. You find equally massive houses in many places across Europe - and then it's not like one large house among many small ones
That argument would hold if they only used tank water, but they don't, they get an external supply from a hydrant. North American appliances are designed with the method of fire fighting in mind, they have a large house bed on the rear which takes up a great deal of room, walk through rescue trucks and let's not forget the simple fact that the "traditional' look is very important. This is evident when LA took delivery of an all electric appliance, the number of comments about it not looking like a fire truck where huge.
Tradition in fire fighting technics and design are what keep the appliances bigger, a well designed European or Australian appliance carries more equipment than an equivalent engine in North America.
In South Australia our standard pump units carry 2500L of water, extrication spreaders and cutters, hazmat gear, along with all the ancillary gear like PPV fans etc all based on a commercial chassis from Scania.
"Fire trucks didn't use to be this big" Proceeds to talk about a bucket
lol
Austrian firefighter here:
A lot of colleagues from all over the world have already pointed out that this video is basically a google search, but I'd like to add some more information:
It also has to do with getting to places. Generally, we would at least in some cases prefer a larger vehicle with a bigger tank and more storage like in the US. The problem is that in European cities that have grown from medieval towns instead of being pre-planned, every increase in length potentially means one more corner you can't get your vehicle through.
As a cohost and co-founder of National Fire Radio, this is a video piece that has no actual insight from the American Fire Service. Those of us who are firefighters from the United States though, can take a valuable lesson away from this video. That lesson is this, we have to work hard to educate the public on what it is we do, so they see the value of the apparatus we use. Not only does the public need to understand the apparatus we buy, but the lives and property values we protect with said apparatus. While our European counterparts have their own way of doing things, we do not have the same building construction, hazards, building codes, and tactics to facilitate a switch to their style fire apparatus. We have to get out in front of the camera on our social media platforms and add value to the public and let them know why we do what we do. If we don't, then videos like this, that are manipulating statistics to make it seem like our apparatus are the cause of the 7% of pedestrian struck by "heavy vehicles, or the 11% of bicyclist struck by "heavy vehicles" are our fault. @cheddar if you guys want to learn about fire apparatus and are in the NY NJ area, we have no problem showing you around to some of the apparatus manufactures and companies and help educate you. Feel free to hit us up @national_fire_radio on instagram.
They won't because America bashing is way more easy
You do not have to convince me. An American firefighter is ready and able to do ANY job.
A firefighter in uniform is comforting. I know that I am in good hands.
I've seen plenty of American Uniformed people being 100% wrong at their job. I've seen the same in Europe.
However: It seems like Europeans have figured out, that space is something which is not something you take lightly and thus create more compact vehicles. Both engines have roughly similar capabilities, but differ in their dimensions. Where the European one tends to get taller the US one goes longer or wider. That is not a Issue, when you whole infrastructure is built around big cars and trucks, but if you go further into human scale infrastructure you will get more and more issues with longer and wider trucks.
then explain to me why do you need these huge trucks again?
specially since you have usual more tighter spots to move around, thanks to the cars and streets around in the city
@@astrid2432 A Emergency vehicle needs a set of capabilities. They require a certain amount of space. Europeans go into height/multiple vehicles. US goes to footprint for them. European Emergency vehicles need to conform to the same size requirements as regular Trucks. With only the exception of Airport fire trucks. They can be a bit larger. However they don't usually drive outside the Airport.
American fire trucks are not 10 feet wide. Max legal width for the US is 8’6”, any more than that and vehicles need special placards and permits. Fire trucks are the width they are because underneath they are based on commercial semi trucks. The axles / tires / brakes engines are all the same. While europe does have some smaller truck platforms than America most of the trucks you showed while talking about them are the same width or very close. They too are based on the same commercial chassis.
Oh and chassis is pronounced “chassy”.
Thank you! Geez Cheddar get your facts straight !
That’s just not true what so ever… the max “legal” width is not 8’6”. Just stop. You have zero clue what you’re talking about.
@@timslager5966 no it’s not, dude doesn’t understand what he’s talking about
@@Duzzy9513 ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/size_regs_final_rpt/#:~:text=59%20FR%2051060).-,FEDERAL%20SIZE%20REGULATIONS%20FOR%20COMMERCIAL%20MOTOR%20VEHICLES%20(CMVs),on%20the%20Interstate%20highway%20system.
Umm a standard width of most cabs is 100 inches wide so you're definitely not even close to being correct.
In some states 70%-90% of the firefighters are volunteer, so cramming everything into one truck that can do it all is sometimes necessary due to the lack of volunteers to answer the call. So smaller fire engines don't really work well for those fire departments.
Yeah, I'm in the UK and our station's Aerial Ladder is still pretty massive and comes in at 26 tonnes. If everything in your city is huge then you'll probably need huge apparatus.
Southern California Fire Departments often have utility vehicles on pickup chassis for responding to medical emergencies and even brush fires, which means that a larger truck doesn't always need to be sent to a medical call and same goes for smaller brush fires.
that's good! Many volunteer fire departments here in Germany will run either a seperate car or use one of their vans to act as first responder at medical calls if the next ambulance is too far away (like 10+ minutes response time)
But you also have to take into account that many city’s don’t have that kind of budget to add more apparatus to their fleet. Also you have to take into consideration of manpower or employee to equip onto the apparatus. Especially when the said big red trucks do the same thing that the smaller trucks would do.
Where I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, most of the calls where for ambulance service involving medical issues. The department would usually also dispatch a fire truck for two reasons. First it provided additional manpower if needed. And second it was a philosophy of use it or lose it; if you don’t start and drive the fire truck from time to time then the day you need it for a fire it won’t start or some other issue will cause a problem.
LA and LA County run ELS Tillers though, so the biggest average truck does go to medical related calls.
The small utility vehicles are called Squads and they're used for medicals in LA County because the ambulance is run by private companies rather than the fire department. They carry equipment the ambulance crews aren't certified to carry and often 1 of the 2 paramedics will ride with the patient to help the ambulance crew en route to hospitals.
@@KomradeDoge the ambulances aren't certified to carry that extra equipment cause they're BLS, and some LACo engines are paramedic as well. The reason for some apparatus being paramedic like that is to stretch out coverage, if you have a small remote station with only enough room for an engine you want to make it as well equipped as possible
This video doesn't give much explanation as to why we (North American Fire Depts) are different. There is a vast depth of historical, cultural and general day to day reasons that make us different. You can argue both sides of the coin why one is better than the other but the bottom line is that this is what we find to work best for how things are on the side of the pond.
Seems a typical, Europe has done it better and this is why America is behind.
@@Sn1p3rSn4k3 say what you want, this is entirely subjective to the viewer. There is no such thing as better/worse when it comes to comparing. We're different for different reasons
@@Sn1p3rSn4k3 You could say the same about the gun argument, but it still doesn't apply.
@@scootinhootin6928 i messed up in my comment was supposed to be sarcasm, cause theres a crowd that always says europe does everything better then the US.
@@Sn1p3rSn4k3 America is not behind. We use the best for us. U.s firetruck could adapt on scene instead of waiting 20 or more minutes for the right equipment. Our culture and the roads are very different from Europe. There is no right way or wrong way we engage in fire fighting
They really compared one of the largest types of fire trucks to a normal one in the thumbnail
If anyone's interested in Australia we have smaller 4x4 trucks with remote controlled hoses so they can get just about anywhere in the scrub and the people don't need to get out to fight the fire so they make a hugeeee difference in bush fires. There is videos of them testing them 10km up the road from my home town which is cool and its quite interesting. They can be engulfed nearly completely in flames for a decent time too.
It's called a monitor. They're actually quite difficult to use because there is a fair amount of lag between the joystick and the monitor. They also chew through the water very quickly. If you've got a fire directly in front of you, they are great because you don't have to move it much.
I'm sorry. Are we just gonna gloss over the vintage footage of a gyroplane at 1:52?
lmao, didnt even see that 😂😂😭
Most people don’t even know what an autogyro is
I was kinda wondering what the hell the point of that was
Fire departments, thank you for not paying attention to this high school report on firetrucks. Please continue having professional sized equipment with varied capability
Are you suggesting European trucks aren't professional and up to standard?
@@raphaellauf7786 European fire trucks are up to standard.
But at the same time at 3:26, they argue that large fire trucks are dangerous to smaller cars, vehicles and people.
They completely ignore that fire trucks are painted in one of the most obvious colors, red, have bright flashing lights, and are incredibly loud and can be seen and heard esaily. You should know to get out of the way, and fire trucks have the right of way. Large fire trucks aren't dangerous, but Cheddar says they are.
Holy crap. Did no one review this video before publishing it to CZcams??
1. “American fire trucks are heavy duty vehicles which account for so and so percent of accidents”… Last time I checked fire trucks were designed to be highly maneuverable and stoppable with a fully decked out rig and full tank of water….
2. She states “The purpose is to save lives and if the European trucks can do it just as efficiently as the American counterparts, maybe it’s time to rethink outside the big red box” Did she not just state that they both do the same job just as efficient as each other??
3. This video was made almost in 2023 and she states at the beginning of the video that American fire trucks look old… did she even do her research before making this video? Because if I look up fire trucks on google 99% of them are modern top of the lines trucks…
Man this video really pissed me off because the arguments made make no sense.
@@verybigvirus4949 There's absolutely nothing wrong with with European style firetrucks being used in the US. The smaller European firetrucks are more maneuverable, and can much more easily reach destinations than the behemoth American Firetrucks. We don't need a ladder engine responding to every fire call, that's absolutely ridiculous, a waste of money, and serves no one.
@@TheLazySleeperLives what do you mean they don't need a ladder responding to every fire call? You do realize that ladder companies primarily run search and rescue during fires so the engine company can focus on fire supression right? They also carry specialized tools with specialized training to safely cut through structures to access different parts of a fire, such as if it's inside the walls or in an attic. There's even ladder trucks that double as engines, called Quints that can do both jobs simultaneously.
A ladders "master stream" hose line can also dump massive amounts of water onto the top of the fire from the exterior, or they can reach to a high floor on a tall building to spray from the outside in while interior teams work from inside. Just look up LA County Fire operations, they make quick work of large fries because of their tactics with the ladder trucks.
Ladder trucks and the people who work on them aren't a "waste of money", and they absolutely serve the people of the cities they are in. More trucks means more firefighters on scene, and that means more jobs can happen simultaneously, which means fire is out faster.
Another reason trucks are bigger in the US is weather patterns. We have more tornadoes and hurricanes in wide open spaces. I have seen videos on the news of trucks take direct hits from flying debris and not care. It helps a lot during search and rescue if you don’t have to worry about getting flattened by a flying tree limb
That doesn't mean every truck across the country needs to be large.
hurricanes and tornados happen in Europe as well; There's also a tornado alley across several countries. Not sure which weather patterns you think the US has and Europe doesn't.
@@EnjoyFirefighting You don't understand. The USA is special and unique. It is so much different than the rest of the Earth...
@@Megatonaxe I won't understand if you don't even try to explain why you think it's so much more special and unique than other places ...
@@EnjoyFirefighting they are a lot more extreme in the States
The stats used that only 4% of calls are fires only relate to structure fires. Doesn’t include smaller fires or vehicle fires. Also, it includes the fire departments who cover as ambulance services that not only respond to ems calls but transport people home from the hospital.
It makes sense for rural areas to have many of the oversized firetrucks, as their water capacity is unmatched, but it would be nice to have a small truck for rapid-response in tighter areas
Rural fire companies also have tankers that are just as massive! But the also have brush trucks that are pick-up sized, usually F350 equivalent.
Those are often called mini pumpers and they have been around a long time.
A Chemical fire or a big warehouse can take a long time to put out.
@@bishop51807 Mulch piles, too. A local landscaper stunk up the whole town with one! They make their own mulch, and the pile got too big.* Required so much water, the hydrant wasn't enough. The firefighters had to supplement with a tanker, or two, going back and forth to the river.
*For those who don't know: The same thing happens with hay/straw, the interior of the pile is decomposing and the process generates so much heat that causes a large percentage of barn fires.
In Denmark, we have special tankers to transport water for the fire brigade. It is always possible to send one more and when it is empty, only the one car has to drive to get more. All-in-one cars are not good.
love listening to people that googled a bunch of stuff and hobbled it together in some video without even talking to anyone who's actually in the fire service. Great job! Everything said was not knowledgeable at all! Make videos on cheese like your name says, not emergency vehicles.
Still European and Asian trucks are smaller. And if yours don't fit in narrow roads, maybe yours should also be smaller.
Someone has investments in huge fire trucks
The main point is still true. No standard fire truck needs to be this big.
@@ligametis You see, US cities tend to be regular sized, not comically minature relics.
@@juanquireyes6703 most of your cities are just suburban sprawl
I'm a firefighter in Wisconsin, and this hurts my friking mind. The reason we have larger apparatuses than other countries is due to the fact alot of our depts are rural. Not always having water access, a 500 gallon truck is typically a ladder truck where you have a massive turntable assembly for the ladder. Our trucks we run have 1200 gallon tanks on them, so if we have a call outside of the hydranted areas we can have some buffer time till a drop tank is set up and water trucks are dumping water to be drafted to continue fighting fire. The rest of the truck has life saving equipment to help keep us safe, and free or help someone in trouble.
your comment kind of hurts as well. "due to the fact alot of our depts are rural" no shit, you think all of Europe is one metro area? Even in densley populated countries like Germany they have rural areas, but apart from that parts of e.g. Sweden or Norway have an equally low population density like the least populated states in the US. They won't have water supply via hydrants in rural areas there as well
In the Philippines, when I was a kid, I used to think our fire trucks are too small. A fire in a squatters area would draw a lot of small fire trucks, I think around 10-15 and we could use fire trucks as big as the ones in the US to deal with these fires.
Or get your Building laws up to scratch because bigger appliances requires American style planning.
It would be a nightmare to maneuver larger trucks through Philippine streets
Of all those calls that weren’t for fires, many were made because of the threat of fire. Much easier to call the FD to prevent a fire that could break out due to a wreck or similar event.
Most of the calls firefighters take today are from car crashes. Modern fire prevention methods are effective enough.
@@bishop51807 Huh, things don't burn anymore, you say?
@@bishop51807 Incorrect. It is EMS (medical) calls, not motor vehicle accidents. Most accidents are non-injury and don't require a fire dept. response.
It's a poorly written piece and doesn't cover the fire service as a whole or the actual correct sizes of apparatus. The actual average water tank size is 750 gallons of water the correct width of a custom cab is 96 to 100 inches not 10 feet as claimed. And smaller compact units are used all over.
@@mikechristensen8046 Yeah, several double takes required when watching the video. Where's my department's spacious 10 foot wide cab???
Interesting video, but there are some misguided examples in this video as well as a huge lack of information that someone from the fire department could provide. They are right though with the types are absolutely impacted by their environment. Especially between the differences of not only NYC to San Francisco, everything in between and out to overseas. The FDNY for instance has over 100 years of research and development with many different specifications for types of apparatus and their strategic locations throughout the city.
Exactly! Clearly this video was made by totally uneducated and may I say ignorant people?!
Here in the Philippines, a firetruck based on a mass-market truck chassis (like Isuzu or Mitsubishi Fuso) was developed for smaller roads, and was called the "Penetrator". Also, Filipino fleets of firetrucks are based on a mix of European, Japanese, and American.
Location is a big problem too. There are a lot more rural areas that have fewer hydrants or no hydrants at all. A larger engine or even a tanker would be needed to have enough water on board to at least control the fire until a water source can be obtained. And with big cities like NY and Chicago, you need trucks that can both operate and support the weight and size of a ladder.
I think it is time to reconsider listening to cheddar as being the logic of reason…
Theyre just another of the 1000s of politically motivated "oh the way europe does it is so much better why cant we be more like europe" leftist social media accounts. So yeah lol
yeah
They’ve had some other poorly researched videos as well. 😭
Agreed, thinking it's about time to unsubscribe 🙄
There is a common thread in Cheddar videos, if it is done in the US, it is wrong. Not trying to say that everything we do is perfect far from it, but Cheddar is the flip side of that coin. Time to ignore this channel
This felt like a commercial for more bike lanes at the expense of larger fire apparatuses
Why should we design our streets around fire engines instead of designing our fire engines around our streets? Why compromise the safety of pedestrians and cyclists to accommodate a behemoth fire engine when Europe gets along just fine with smaller engines?
@@TheLazySleeperLives Europe gets along fine with smaller apparatus far a variety of reasons. They have different tactics, different infrastructure, even different building styles to American Firefighters. The both styles of trucks have been determined through years and years of fire sciences research as well as firsthand experiences from the crews that use them to be what they need. Here in America the companies that design the trucks let the crew come to the factory to review just about every detail down to flashing light placement just to ensure it's correct for the cities needs, it wouldn't surprise me if Europe does too.
More important to that, the streets have already been designed to accommodate what we have, they're being cut down. It's like designing a door to accommodate a 6 foot 10 person, then being suprised that they don't fit when you install a fan at the top of the door that cuts off 10 inches.
As European engineer, that American way of thinking as alway make me laugh. Americans design streets that are hostile for pedestrians and cyclistes, without public transportations (or very poor service). Logically, everyone (that includes people that are not medically fit to drive like old people, drunk people going to home after a party, people with disabilities, etc) needs to drive. Due to the fact that everybody should drive, you cannot implement "complexe" road infrastructures like roundabout because even the stupider person should be able to drive. So the roads are full of unsafe, unefficient, but simple intersection (like stop sign and traffic light). Consequently, the roads are congested because everyone needs to drive and because the intersection unefficiency. So those unsafe roads are full of bored or stupid or unfit driver, resulting in many accident.
Answer to that problem: bigger vehicule that are more hostile to non-driving people, less pedestrians/cyclistes infrastructures and less dedicated transit lane cause general traffic lanes are congested
@@fabswisss it's not just the drunks and old people. I look both ways at a round-a-bout because I don't trust ANYONE to know how they work. I gotta say, the 4 way intersection is a lot safer in my opinion simply because very few people actually know how to use a round-a-bout where I'm from. But that's probably bias.
Anyway, your fire departments are government sponsored and hired. Ours are, like, 90% volunteer. They can't really afford MASSIVE fire departments and FLEETS of specialized trucks, like a ladder truck, hose truck, ems truck, etc. No, they use what they have and that's a smaller department with 2-3 big engines that can do everything from acting as a barricade at a driving accident, to being the ems truck while waiting for the ambulance to arrive. The cabins are also have a high impact rating, meaning if a building collapses near or on top of the truck, the firefighters inside are fine and can get to SAR as soon as possible. NA firetrucks are heavy duty, all purpose, firetrucks designed to take a hit and keep on trucking (Literally, considering our drivers).
You have your trucks, we have ours. What doesn't matter is, do your trucks work for you? Yes? Great! Ours won't work for you, much like yours won't work for us. (Unless the firedepartments get state sponsors, but that would be another tax people don't want).
@@endyender1703 1) this is what I say. The requirements to get a driving licence are incredibly low in the US because even the stupidest people have to be able to drive. In Europe people who can't take a roundabout are simply not allowed to drive.
2) I am a fireman in a village of 2200 inhabitants in Switzerland. Before, I was in the army's disaster relief service. So I have experience of both very large services (5'000 men per brigade) and very small fire services. This story about a specialised truck is a joke. There are plenty of comments underneath this video quoting equipment that American trucks contain but that European trucks would not (water tanks, paramedic equipment, etc). Even the truck in my village has this despite the fact that it is a 2.30×8m truck. The only thing we don't have on the truck is a telescopic ladder, but we have a trailer with a ladder, so we have the same capacity to intervene as an American truck.
3) The tax thing is an excuse, European trucks are cheaper. Taxes in Switzerland are lower than in the USA, and it is also the municipalities that pay for the equipment. Besides, municipalities in Switzerland are generally not indebted, whereas in the USA the amounts paid in interest on municipal debt are generally higher than the amounts spent on operations.
4) In Switzerland it is not volunteers but conscripts. The fire service is compulsory between 18 and 32 years old. There is 1 mixed fire service (volunteer and professional) per district which has specialised equipment and can intervene in case the municipal means are not sufficient. Fully professional services only exist in cities with more than 100'000 inhabitants.
I have an engineer degree: I know very well why US trucks are bigger than European ones. It's simply because your whole country is car-centric, the residential areas are very sparse. So the number of taxpayers to finance a square kilometre of city is much lower, which means that the money available is very limited, so the infrastructure is of poor quality and so the equipment must be able to intervene despite the poor infrastructure. That's why the remark about bicycle lanes makes me laugh: it's precisely the dependence on the car that leads to a whole cascade of effects, one of the consequences of which is the increased need for heavy rescue equipment. In Europe we pay less to have more and better public services
Ive read comments from a few firefighters in this thread now, detailing what equipment they carry and why it is important to have it all. They all seem to agree most calls are EMS related, but that doesnt mean you can cut away the fire gear, because sure enough its not used as often, its pretty important.
You can't take a European truck to an American city, which has wider roads, taller buildings, faster traffic speeds, heavier vehicles overall, more spread out suburbs and expect it to do the same job. You need bigger ladders, bigger hydraulic rams, more water, more water pressure, more capacity for humans to be evacuated to serve the average American emergency scene. Here in Zurich, Switzerland, we have the more compact sort of trucks that were shown in the video (Schutz und Rettung Zürich), but most buildings here don't go beyond 6 storeys, even in the city center. I'm not a firefighter but I'm sure fire departments everywhere have a tight enough budget to find and fulfill the minimum operational requirements and not more.
"You can't take a European truck to an American city" Log Angeles Fire Department did.
"faster traffic speeds" I highly doubt that. In which way do you think traffic in the US is faster?
"You need bigger ladders," while the truck itself is bigger, American ladders don't reach any higher than European ones.
"more water pressure" most European departments operate at less gpm but higher PSI than American departments.
"more capacity for humans to be evacuated" as if that wouldn't be a thing in Europe. Think about how many people you get from evacuating apartment blocks, train stations, passenger trains, malls, stadiums or entire city boroughs etc ... there are even seperate apparatus speclized on on-scene triage and treatment in mass casualty incidents. A single truck of those can handle 50 patients per hour
This isn't just a fire truck issue, either. We are trying to get curb extensions installed in my neighbourhood, but the snow removal authority is against it because their vehicles are gigantic. We over-engineered all of our stroads so these vehicles became bigger and now it's difficult to build safe streets because the vehicles are too big.
Those curbs bust tires
Hello what’s up
So extended curbs like when you turn on a road ya um sorry im a very good driver and those make it god dam difficult to turn properly and safely because there to far out in my laine 90% of the time so everyone needs to go in other lain to avoid the curb.
My 2005 toyota tacoma is 3,700 pounds gets 19 to 21 mpg.
Brand new 2022 toyota tacoma 25 to 27 mpg and is 2 feet higher then mine and 1 foot wider and its 4,650 pounds.
Oh ya my truck air drag is 2.9 the 2022 model is 3.4 like wow more drag then mine why.
Hmm mybe downsizing a bit would be good also stop making things heavier than before.
How’re you doing
For commercial truck drivers it's quite the opposite, roads aren't big enough for us commercial trucks. They're outdated and need to be bigger.
Love when you said “The US one looks old” you showed an early 2000’s FDNY rig. Do some research and look at ‘21-‘22 USA fire trucks.
Regardless, How are looks relevant to them being "too big"?
@@joefather2463 Idk, and I love how in the thumbnail and throughout the vid they show the biggest size there is lol. I rarely see trucks that size on the road, it’s usually smaller ones
Not that I care how old a fire trucks looks, but the 2022 USA fire trucks all look old to me.
@@janpeter6047 They do but its just a tradition thing. Kinda why BMW's all looked very similar until recently, and guess what: people got mad they changed it
To a European, it looks like it’s from the 1970’s that’s the point. The design looks to have barely changed.
As a German, I didn't even know that semi-trailer firetrucks are a thing. That's wild.
A fire truck has a hydraulic mounted ladder, a fire engine does not. Most fire engines carry closer to 1000gal of water. They are so big because on top of the 1000+ gallons of water, they carry 4-6 firefighters, extra ladders, extra oxygen tanks, hundreds of feet of hose, power tools ranging from drills to giant saws, hydraulic cutting and spreading tools, and many will also act as a pump in case there isn't a hydrant but there is a body of water like a pond or lake. If you live in most American suburbs, just stop by the fire station, more than likely they'll be happy to do a quick tour and answer questions. You don't realize how big they are until you're standing beside one. They're very cool!
and our more compact Engines carry 9 firefighters, and apart from the amount of water, all the things you've listed as well
Yes commercial trucks are a lot more expensive, but with that expense comes quality and longevity. It’s fairly common to see a commercial tractor trailer with over a million miles on it. That same quality is used on most US fire trucks. It’s not rare to see 20-25 year old fire trucks at most stations, where as a pickup counter part mostly wouldn’t last that long. Also when it comes to US roadway crashes, with the higher speeds, I’d much rather have a commercial truck providing traffic control protected the emergency crew. Sometimes a bigger truck isn’t always a bad idea.
This vid is just America bad bait.
@@JPLangley_ Sounds like somebody is salty, mind if I put add additional seasoning with that?
Although it should be said that at least in Germany, most fire engines also have a common service life of 20-30 years, with some possessing even older vehicles. Other emergency services such as the THW also make regular use of vehicles from the 80s and 70s, however those are currently being replaced by new trucks.
@@PriceTheCourier it kinda is and the EU counter part isn't better, it's actually worse.
@@tylermarciano2286 I need to change my username to "local idiot on the internet."
Last week I woke up with horrible pain in my side, I was pretty sure it was a kidney stone. After taking some medication, the pain was not decreasing and I decided that I should go to the hospital. By this time however, I was in too much pain to drive myself so I dialed 911. Within 5 minutes, the closest fire engine was on scene and their paramedic saw to taking care of me as the closest ambulance was having to come from another station. By the time the ambulance had arrived, I had been given a shot of toradol for the pain which softened the pain enough that I could walk to the ambulance and they transported me to the hospital. I believe that the quicker treatment meant that I didn't have to be carried on the gurney as the pain was worsening to an 11 out of 10. While I was in pain while waiting for a room, it was barely bearable. And yes, it turned out to be a kidney stone. They went in and blasted it and I'm on the mend. Anyway, I'm happy that our local fire departments have paramedics on board their fire engines.
Getting that kidney stone blasted in Europe would have taken a new appointment with a specialist, and depending on the wait list, been two weeks to six months...and a lot more toradol.
@@blackwolfnews1722 dont know where you got this info but in my country(Germany) where I work as the equivalent to a Paramedic in the US they do that in the ER pretty fast after we bring you there
@@dvdffc only if you can get it classified as an emergency. Otherwise it's off to the specialist wait list.
@@blackwolfnews1722 And if you have the amount of pain described above, it classified as an emergency.
@@blackwolfnews1722 I don't know where you bring informations, but where I live in Europe you get classified as emergency very easily, once I got it for a broken toe
In many suburban areas large tanker trucks are needed to knock down fires fast as making hydrant connections can be a problem in many locations especially in the winter.
In Europe (Portugal where i live), firetrucks need to adapt to the most common fire situation, which here are wildfires. Those American trucks wouldn't be able to access any dirt road, or the amount of tiny roads we have off city. Although American firetrucks always fascinated me, they look cool af no matter how old they might seem.
All the pointless chrome
We do have trucks for that either being smaller pickup truck conversions or specialized trucks off-road focused trucks, more compact but definitely different from there European cousins.
Many American firetrucks are conventional chassiss. American trucks can look modern too. Not all look old
So what do you think American firefighters do for other kinds of roads or terrain? Use different fire department vehicles for different terrain, of course. Be prepared with the right tools for the job. Now you make me wonder what the Portuguese THINK Americans do when the fire is burning down some dirt road.
“Their international competitors are usually much, much, more compact. Compared to the U.S. one where it looks old.”
**Proceeds to show an image of an FDNY Seagrave truck from the early 2000s**
For real. A 1994 model no less lol
As if old vehicles don't look 100x better than modern shit car designs
This video definitely belonged in my recommended feed as it is something that I have spoken at length about to my peers, however it is a very layman's way of putting the differences between North American fire apparatus, and Euro/Asian style apparatus. To truly understand the differences in our trucks, you must understand the differences in our firefighting tactics and strategies, firefighting infrastructure (Station placement, apparatus/personnel capacity), and fire prevention.
While I do not disagree that NA apparatus are sometime oversized and overpriced for the job they are performing in certain areas, there must be clarification. European and Asian fire services are much less aggressive than North American firefighters. They make far less interior fire attacks, their hoses are small and flow a lesser volume of water, and their protective equipment is rated to about half the thermal performance figures as NA gear. This means that their apparatus can be equipped with smaller pumps, hose takes up less area, they don't carry as many forcible entry tools which frees up cabinet space, they don't need as large of a water tank as we do (As hydrants are often abundant there). While individually small pieces, they create a very large puzzle that outlines the difference in much of our equipment. While the explanation is much more complex than this brief paragraph, I'd like to sum up by stating while this video is somewhat correct, I think that it is worth saying that most NA fire apparatus are large due to the tasks they are assigned to, in most cases.
Indeed. Larger cities and demands need larger vehicles. FD mission creep.
Sorry bro, but I think european housefires are the same as north american ones, so the gear is indeed comparable. Of course we do have differences in taktics, but the goal is much the same. Yes, the standard hoses might be smaller and the volumes of water carried might be too, but that is due to differences in the ways we build (and renovate) houses. So no, european fire trucks and brigades are not less effective than north american ones. We all developed the best system over decades.
Furthermore, as a firefighter myself I can tell you first hand that here in Germany maybe thirty percent of our alarms are actually fire related. The majority is technical relief, opening doors for EMD's, car crashes and so on. We all do that with the same very efficiently and practically equipped trucks.
"They make far less interior fire attacks" I definetly can't agree on that. Not sure about Asia, which sure has great differences depending on the country just like there are huge differences across Europe as well. Picking out e.g. Germany, most structure fires are fought by an interior attack only! Most fires don't spread to the outside or come to the state of being a fully involved structure fire, so the only way is an interior attack.
To point this out even more: In Norway they even have seperate apparatus for interior attacks! Also in Denmark you find some interior attack apparatus as special operations. They do basically nothing else than interior attacks then.
Yes, the hoses flow less water, but aren't less effective. Most of Europe operates at lower gpm and higher PSI in order to keep further damages caused by the water as low as possible.
@@EnjoyFirefighting
Exactly. It's not just about putting out a fire, it's about doing as little damage as possible in the process. We break locks, not doors and finely spray water to get maximum cooling with minimal water damage instead of just flooding rooms.
@@dinolino3313 I did not at any point say that European firefighters are less effective than North American Firefighters. I have plenty of friends on the Job in the EU, and they are just as much a firefighter as I am. I was simply highlighting the differences between our equipment and trying to explain WHY those differences exist. It was a comparison, not a competition. I don't know who has the more efficient system, as I have only tried my own and you can only say the same for yourself. I was simply pointing out some relevant information that they left out in the video.
This was like, a high school level project for social studies where they only cited Wikipedia as their source. Maybe chat with some actual Firefighters about small vehicles being "equally capable".
I grew up in rural Vermont where the departments are at least 5 miles apart and rely entirely on volunteers, many of which are high school kids (or were when I was in school). Many of the trucks are old and must serve just about every purpose. I have learned more about firefighting apparatus from this comment section which appears to be based on engineers and firefighters from all over the world than I did from the video.
Interesting video. Unfortunately, there are numerous errors and oversights that start about 10 seconds in and never recover (the 'average dimensions' quoted are all wrong). I did watch the entire presentation and it comes off as a lot of Wikipedia and Google research. I agree that there are opportunities for improvement, but the presenters don't yet have a firm grasp on the problem and therefore don't really make a good case for the proposed solutions.
I think what this video neglects is the massive cab of traditional American fire trucks. In the 2001 World Trade Center incident, the collapse of the building caused debris to fall over the passenger cabin but said passenger cabin has been credited for the survival of the crew. A lot of crewcab trucks that Europe and Asia has usually doesn't have this benefit as they are merely just crew cab version of commercial trucks.
you can roll over a Volvo truck without the roof of the cab being smashed, just saying
@@EnjoyFirefighting I am pretty sure there is a difference between flipping over and having chucks of concrete falling on your apparatus.
@@EnjoyFirefighting yeah but the weight of the truck itself and pieces of falling bit have quite the difference in force
@@seskorirkeashimrui3556 and do we have comparable incidents where one could say that the cab of a European truck withstands or doesn't withstand such an impact? Not as far as I know ... not in the 2011 Oslo attack, not in the 2012 blasting of the WW2 bomb in Munich, not in the 2019 Notre Dame fire in Paris,
@@PriceTheCourier and do we have comparable incidents where one could say that the cab of a European truck withstands or doesn't withstand such an impact? Not as far as I know ... not in the 2011 Oslo attack, not in the 2012 blasting of the WW2 bomb in Munich, not in the 2019 Notre Dame fire in Paris,
5:47 1 thing I like to mention is the Russian fire trucks were made in the SOVIET ERA! This trucks are also in most former Soviet countries. These trucks are now 30 to 40 years old and were made in a completely different era.
The city of Albany, NY, wanted to get rid of the last of its tiller trucks, until someone realized that the longer trucks needed to replace them couldn't maneuver in city streets.
Most fire apparatus serve multiple purposes; an engine generally also carries rescue equipment, a ladder (aka a quint) will also carry water and a pump. Tankers, by default, are also engines. Such versatility is cost effective, particularly for smaller, volunteer departments.
take a guess: although not 100% the same, it's similar over in Europe as well
Ladders and quints are not the same, the both have arial devices but there not the same. Also tenders are not the same as engines, tenders are based around transporting water while engines usually have greater pumping capacity and more rescue tools. In a pinch a lot of the trucks you can fight fire with but they all have a very special purpose and do that better than any other truck
A quint is a ladder truck with a pump panel, similar but not the same.
Cheddar is always answering questions I didn’t know I had ❤
Haha you're here too!
We are always hungry for new information.
FOR REAL
Hi Tay 🤘🏼
Must suck to not be able to think for yourself.
Every tool has a purpose. Expand your collection and be more prepared for the future. Big firetrucks have a purpose, you're not gonna use a pipe cutter to frame a house. In my opinion we shouldn't go smaller but rather diversify what we do have. If you use the right too for the right job you'll get done quicker and safer.
Pretty much the best response.
Our large trucks are practical the Dependable. whilst we have a variety of support vehicles as redundancies that are perfect for many individual situations that are likely to arise individually on their own.
I see many Europeans getting so defensive with their clear Anti-US FD sized vehicles.
Everything has its place.
we can learn from any place.
but each place has its needs.
That's pretty much what the video already says, but ok.
In my city the majority of the emergency calls are to vehicle accidents. The fire crews and their pumper truck are able to carefully pry a car apart to make rescuing an seriously injured patient safer. This means the crews have to carry along a selection of jaws of life, various lifting jacks and air bags. Since they are the first at the accident scene they have primary patient handling gear, litters and medical equipment until the ambulance arrives. Fire trucks are also starting to carry bariatric patient carrying equipment, that is heavy patient handling equipment in the form of a heavy lift gurney that is not much different than a heavy commercial appliance carrying cart for safely navigating stairs. More pumper trucks are partly rescue trucks in terms of carrying a lot of extra equipment.
Engines in e.g. Germany carry all sorts of tools and rescue equipment as well
Ok, so imma try be as clear as possible !
In North America, the size of a fire truck depends on multiple things, a what's being said in that video is only 10% of the reasons why there's so big !
Basically one thing that will make a fire department choosing between a smaller or larger vehicle depends may include but not limited to:
- Urban or Rural area (+ population density per square mile)
- Area specific requirements ( like old town with old and short building VS downtown with larger are taller buildings)
To name certain types of "firetrucks" :
- Engine / Pumper (Transport water and basic firefighting tools)
- Rescue Engine / Rescue Pumper (Transport water and advanced firefighting tools + rescue tools)
- Ladder (may be 100ft or 110ft sometimes, and "rear mounted" platform or "Mid Mounted" platform, it's the most common type of ladder truck in NoAm, and don't carry water)
- Tower Ladder ( Looks like a big extendable boom with a basket at the extremity, may be 75ft or 95ft most of the time, and usually don't carry water like the "Ladder")
- Tiller Ladder ( it's basically a "Ladder" but !!!! It looks like a semi with a "Second driver" that operates the rear directing axle for better maneuverability ! Its longer and may carry a bit more equipment than the Ladder, its only "Mid Mounted" platform)
- Quint (it's another type of "Ladder Truck" but this time it does transport water and/or have a pump on it, it's not the most common vehicle because it have a lot of disadvantages compared to the other types of ladders but can be useful for fire departments that are understaffed since it may be used to respond to both calls that would require or an engine or a ladder or even both, but with one truck and basically one crew of 4 to 6 firefighters)
- Rescues / Squads / Haz-Mat ( these are specialty/ heavy rescue vehicles, most of the time, they're staffed with 6 or 8 or 10 firefighters and respond to calls that may include but not limited to: large fires; large incidents; motor vehicle accidents; train wrecks; building collapses; confined space rescue; high angle rescue; chemical, biological and radiological incidents, and more, these are "Heavy vehicles" and may be "Walk-In" or "Non Walk-In")
And last, fire departments also use some smaller vehicle modified for fire departmens and that usually looks like an F-350, Dodge Ram 3500, Chevy Silverado, and are used for battalion/division/deputy/supervisor or basically just chief cars, or paramedics.
Well that was a long one !!!
But keep in mind that firetrucks are not "big" just to be "big" in the US the history and traditions are also one thing that keeps these vehicles big and make them look old, its a firefighter tradition !!!
And to be honest, maybe that in Europe we have smaller vehicles but the average fire station here on a large city like Paris, France or Brussels, Belgium is actually having at least 6 vehicles !!! Where the average fire station in NYC, Chicago or DC its about 2 to 3 vehicles !!!!
So to conclude, North America and the rest of the world is different, here in Europe we have smaller trucks with more trucks per stations while in the US trucks are bigger, but less per stations !!!
I find it funny how Europeans attack America for our culture, or just doing things a certain way, it's okay. But when we call them out for something different in their culture, they lose their shit.
I never understood how Tiller Ladders in the US still have a 2nd driver steering the rear ... it's 2022 and automatic rear-wheel steering is around for decades? By now European rear-mount platforms often come with all-wheel steering for increased maneuverability, but without a 2nd "driver" steering the rear.
We have many of those apparatus but obviously with different layout and tasks here as well: Engines, Rescue Engines, Quints, typically rear-mount platforms of at least 105 ft and Tower Ladders usually ranging up to 150 or 170 ft, but with the tallest hitting 300 ft, then obviously different kinds of rescue trucks (technical rescue, heavy rescue, water rescue, mountain rescue etc), hazmat, special operations trucks etc; For chief and command we use cars and vans. There are lots of special operations apparatus which would make the list way too long here, ranging from EOD trucks to CBRNE detection units, decontamination trucks to all kinds of EMS units.
@@ecliptic6911 well, concerning this topic Europeans usually hear a constant rant like large stations are stupid, toy trucks, toy sirens, universal healthcare is stupid, they don't do interior attacks, don't have proper fire trucks ... it's that Europeans read over and over again. Is it surprising that they turn this thing around some day?
@@EnjoyFirefighting Well once again the dimensions, weight, and purpose of TT's (Tiller Trucks) do not allow the possibility to use automatic rear axle, TT's are always doing this "snake" thing around the traffic so it wouldn't be something "efficient" for fire departments, also keep in mind that maintenance is something crucial for fire apparatus, it needs to be easy and quick to repair this type of things, and the price !!! Price would increase so much that it would be a "commercial success" for companies building these trucks !
@@EnjoyFirefighting So on this one, it's just a way of looking at things, but it's being said in the video (and it's a real thing) in Europe we have narrow and tighter streets, plus population density !!!
Having large fire station is not a reason to talk bad about Europe, we may have a large fire station because there's a training center around, and maybe a maintenance building !!! We have demographic constraints, and it's may be easier ro do it that way !!!
Concerning American VS Europeans, i don't get onto these types of debates, since I'm French - Canadian...
As someone who films fire trucks for CZcams, this video intrigued me! A couple of things to note for those interested in this topic too.
1. The "cherry picker" trucks are typically referred to as snorkels, and this is only the second time I've heard them referred to as cherry pickers. Maybe Europe uses this term more? Anyway, they are still used quite often. Here's a video of one responding from the last decade: czcams.com/video/YUkDD7Ggg4E/video.html
2. The European style fire truck style has met a lot of resistance in the US firefighting community, although it is making some inroads. One of my friends filmed one in Los Angeles earlier this year, which you can see here: czcams.com/video/6yoqhr68zGg/video.html
3. Fires burn hotter and spread quicker these days because of the materials used in newer buildings, a fact which justifies the larger fire trucks here in the US. The large size allows for the carrying of hundreds (or thousands) of gallons of water which can make the difference when first arriving to a fire. This water is easily accessible and can be utilized quickly while additional firefighters hook up to a hydrant. Additionally, many rural communities don't have fire hydrants available and must shuttle in all the water used for fighting the fire. The bigger the truck, the more water it can hold.
Anyways, nice video and thanks for creating/sharing it!
Thanks. In recent years, rubbish collectors have become a fetish for people on CZcams to "hunt" and catalogize all the models. Does it happen with fire trucks, too?
A normal German Fire Engine (LF 20) carry’s over 500 gallons of water and is significantly shorter than an American Fire engine. There’s also a widely spread variant (TLF 4000) which holds over 1000 gallons of water and is roughly the same size as an LF 20. This alone can’t be the reason for the bigger American sizes.
Concerning no.3, how do european countries deal with newer construction materials? Also, why not buy more of the smaller vehicles (or just separate water trucks) to meet the higher water need?
Not all European fire trucks look like that electric thing.....
same here, former spotter.
One aspect many American firefighters forget is that European units already made it to the US: Rosenbauer ARFF Crash Tenders, but also smaller trucks like the Tatra or Unimog, and most popular, vans like the Sprinter or Ducato
just based on the pronunciation of chassis, I distrust how much research they actually put in this video
The majority of US paramedics are only with the fire department, where in Europe paramedics are part of the ambulance crews. It saves having to send a massive vehicle equipped with half a dozen people for a simple case of a single person injury. European fire departments have paramedics as part of the fire fighting team.
You also have to add that fire trucks are often used as traffic barriers. So that in the case of a large crash instead of having to add more officers to the scene. A fire truck. Which would’ve already been on the way to the scene in case of a car fire can better protect the crash scene from getting any more crashes.
A good point that most people overlook. When we have car crashes, especially on the highway, our biggest truck always goes.
You do realize they have highways in Europe, and that crashes occur on those highways in Europe? How do you think they handle crashes on the highways in Europe?
@@djzazou I'd imagine they do the same thing. But because the trucks tend to be smaller, there may be less protction.
@@theboot1023 you do realize that there are multiple trucks on scene?
@@zawisiak3708 yes
very interesting topic. Some aspects I want to add:
1) while fire apparatus in the US are often way longer than their European counterparts, the European ones are often quite a bit taller.
2) there are a few American apparatus used across Europe: van and pickup based units were somewhat popular in the past, but aren't any more today. actual full size fire trucks exist as well, but only very few of them. Even the US Army Fire & Emergency Services at USAG bases in Germany stopped shipping American apparatus across the pond and use European ones instead
3) American apparatus manufacturers tried to enter the European market multiple times - trying so with the American layout. They never were successfull as they simply didn't adapt to the entirely different market. At the same time, e.g. the European manufacturer Rosenbauer entered the American market with an American fire apparatus layout and is successful with that approach
4) while the Aerials in the US are usually based on a way larger chassis, also due to carrying more equipment, the ladder itself usually isn't taller than on European apparatus. In fact, barely any Aerial in the US is beyond 100 ft tall, while even ones in the 150 ft to 170 ft are kind of common across Europe and the tallest ones being in service hitting 300 ft of height - based on a truck chassis which isn't much larger than a Tiller Ladder which reaches only 100 ft in the US.
5) departments are layed out VERY different. Taking Germany for example, the departments in the cities usually have few large (sometimes enormous!) stations, whereas the American departments have numerous tiny stations. The response times aren't much different, but the entire approach and department layout sure is.
Rosenbauer has supplied the new LAFD electric fire truck. I saw a video.
@@michaelrmurphy2734 that's correct. As it was built in Austria it's a uncommon apparatus layout to be seen on the streets of America; The US division "Rosenbauer America" builds the typical American apparatus design
@@EnjoyFirefighting Truth be told between Jeeps and Emergency vehicles America has only been able to export widely to Latin America no where else.
Not a native english speaker here.. why do you call firetrucks apparatus?
@@Keckegenkai there are so many different terms depending on the location: fire engine, fire truck, fire apparatus, ...
The vast majority of people in the US live outside these dense cities. The type 1 engine was designed for the rural and suburban population of the US, where it fits onto the streets well, and it's vast water tanks and powerful pumps are put to use every day fighting fires in more remote regions.
Big enough cities might get some effect out of developing more compact solutions. But for most places, these engines are what's economical, available, and serviceable.
😂😂 You can't be serious (the vast majority live outside of big cities lol)..
@@jasonallen3678 😂 you can't be this stupid. More than 60% of people live in areas considered "suburban" or "rural". Maybe saying "vast majority" is a bit of an overstatement, but if you applied your 3rd grade reading comprehension skills here I wouldn't need to spell it out for you.
The United sates is very diverse so some departments in say on the west coast might have to deal with forest fires so they need a big truck to push things out of the way or say even New York it has tall buildings so they would most likely need big ladder engines and a big truck to keep it stable and most smaller departments just go along with it because the big trucks are easier to buy unlike getting a truck shipped from another country
ladders in NYC don't reach any higher than ladders from a small town volunteer fire department in Germany: their highest ladders reach 100 ft, that's it.
congrats, you focused on cities and used examples from small countries. news flash most of america is rural, has many small companies that are volunteer and cover large areas. this is why the big trucks are the norm, cause they can only have one or two trucks that need to do everything. sure in cities small trucks might work when they dept has 5 trucks and 5 other departments in the area, but in rural towns where it's just one or two stations with three or four trucks each, they need more on that truck.
news flash, lots of regions in Europe are rural as well, and fire trucks aren't any larger there. Most departments, even in areas of high population density, have small companies as well, and in most countries the share of volunteers is greater than in the US (which is at 7ß% in the US and at e.g. 96% in Germany)
@@EnjoyFirefighting rural America is way bigger than European rural areas
@@ej_22 it doesn't depend how large a rural area is, as a single fire truck won't cover an entire state's area, it doesn't really matter if it's only 1k sq mi, 40k sq mi or several hundred k sq mi
Unfortunatly most of the people who live in cities dont believe that rural areas exist.
@@EnjoyFirefightingit does a areas fire department isn't determined by size but by money. In America there are huge areas that only have a few trucks between them
After a 30 year carrier I have learned there is something you need to remember about American firefighters. There are two things we hate the most.
#1 "The way things are".
#2 "Changing the way things are".
Any questions?
I'd say yes because in the US you can have a variety of areas in a fire departments call area, plus pretty much everything is bigger in the US
U.S. fire trucks carry water. A lot of it. This is so they can access areas around the city or county that don't have fire hydrants. They carry NUMEROUS tools. Their size also helps block traffic and actually stop it if someone isn't paying attention usually during a car accident, a house fire/ brush fire and other circumstances so it keeps people in the emergency scene safe.
guess what: also in Europe there are areas which lack a hydrant network, departments carry lots of tools and also they block traffic. They in fact block traffic which travels at a much higher speed as well.
Australia uses similar vehicles to Europe. Air support is also commonly present during the bushfire season, but those smaller trucks like 4:28 will attend just about everything, although rural brigades do also have trucks with off-roading capabilities, but similar sizes to the former.
That picture was taken right outside of crown casino, on 1 Queens Bridge St, Melbourne, Victoria.
As a fire fighter their two reasons our trucks are big
1. We like it, a lot of fire houses are very stubborn and take pride in their equipment. The trucks are one of the things Fire House pride themselves, they clean those things better then their own cars lol. And their a lot of history behind them too, In fact I rode on the same trucks my uncle and grandpa did, same exact ones. This even applies to other things like our helmets I wore the style helmets that my great great uncle wore in the FDNY.
2.We need it, our trucks have large water capacity and powerful pumps, even my dept. tower ladder has a pump in it. Even though my area is well off and like 1-2hours form NYC we still have issues with our hydrants due to the harsh winters. Snow plows have sometimes cause the hydrants to bend. My neighboring town of mind had no working hydrants at one point for months. And in Rural areas hydrants isn't always readily available that's why some dept. buy huge semi trucks with trailers to haul thousands of gallons of water. In cities high-rises on fire require powerful pumps to pump water all the way to the top.
3. lastly some areas simply can't afford to buy new trucks, some have trucks form the 60s 70s and 80s hell I seen one form the 50s.
also we have high rise buildings we need to get the water up into, or rural areas with no hydrants, or areas with harsh winters; The North Cape in Europe is as far north as Barrow at the northern end of Alaska.
Age of the vehicles doesn't really matter long as they still work and have been modernised a bit.
Even if they were replaced they'd end up working on an industrial estate or part of someone's collection
I like the Beaufort approach, they can send the little trucks whenever it isn't a fire, and save the big truck for when there is
"It just looks old". Priorities understood.
This is tough to do where I live. We have to have the bigger trucks cause we have to haul water and tools. Our engine holds 3000 gallons and it does take up most of the road
It is impossible to do. In my VFD, our entire district doesn't have a single hydrant. We have to run to a nearby lake and place a cage in to get a supply. Our tanker pump went bad about 3 months ago and our whole attack plan has changed since. The repairs have been in progress by the county so we should get it back soon.
Some of the roads are difficult to traverse unfortunately, and our oldest engine can't handle the grades.
European engines just don't have the capacity for equipment we need in order to be prepared. We have plenty of medical supplies and an EMT station next door, so we could theoretically handle a mass casualty event(Bus MVC/Rollover) until backup arrives. I hope people don't buy into this video and ask for smaller fire trucks.
@@Bill-bj9fn yes but it's a well known problem. Car centric city design leads to low housing density, which leads to low taxpayer density, which means that Americans have to pay a lot of taxes for poor infrastructures. That's why Europeans has better infrastructure while paying less taxes. And that's why we can operate in rural Switzerland with a water tank of only 1500l (~500galon).
@@fabswisss It's not a problem of low income. Nobody will shell out millions of dollars to install water lines in the areas running on wells and septic tanks. Even if these areas were high income, they wouldn't have hydrants installed because the construction costs outweigh the benefits.
@@Bill-bj9fn For places that work with wells, it is sufficient to have suction points. That's how we do it and it works very well
@@fabswisss We drop a debris cage in the nearest fresh water supply and run it from there. That is, if we don't have a tanker or need more water.
This was an incredibly uniformed video. 1st off most fire engines carry about 1,000 gallons of water not 400. This is so the 1st company can focus on making an aggressive interior attack and rescue while the 2nd company can get a water supply going. It takes time for the 2nd company to get their and get things going. In rural areas that requires literally hauling water in and setting up drop tanks.
2nd You're absolutely right in saying that we don't need to take engine trucks to medical calls but many fire halls are small often only having room for 2 trucks being the engine and the ladder. In rural departments where the halls are bigger we don't necessarily have the budget for multiple different trucks. You may only need the two engines and 1 ladder truck once a year or once every couple years but when you need it you need. Also you've got back ups this way. What happens if you have 1 engine truck and it breaks down for a few days. You can't just tell the community to not have a fire.
3rd reason for taking engine trucks to all calls. Once again You're absolutely right in saying we don't need all of that stuff for a regular engine truck but what happens if on the way to or from the medical we come across a car accident. Sure would be nice to have the equipment to deal with it. What happens if the call ends up being different. You go for a medical call and it turns out their is a gas leak instead. You're medical only rig isn't very helpful in that scenario. Or the reverse you go out for a gas leak and it ends up being someone with a mental issue. Sure would be nice to have your medical gear with. In a few scenarios you need everything. Car accident with an injured patient in a burning vehicle. You need water to put the fire out, tools to get the patient out and medical supplies to treat the patient. You don't have the room for 3 different rigs that close to the car nor due you have the man power to drive that many or the time to wait that long.
With 1 truck we can respond to literally every single call we get. Think of everything you call the fire dept for and realize that everything we need to efficienctly start dealing with that problem is on one truck. And with 90% of calls it's the only truck we need to completely deal with the problem. If you actually think about that it is insane. Every call 1 truck. That's a lot of variety on one rig.
Now I will gladly sit down and discuss with informed people about the pros and cons of having a multiple rigs that can do everything vs specialized rigs because that's really what this is about. But that's not at all what your video discussed.
question would be: why a fire truck to a medical call at all? I can it making sense to send out some fire apparatus to a medical call if the ambulance is far away, but often I see them arriving on scene at more or less the same time, and that it's very common for departments rolling out with an Engine or even a Ladder Truck / Tiller Ladder to a medical call.
You'll see Europeans come to medical calls with a Tower Ladder when the already on scene EMS crews tell dispatch to send one, in order to get the patient down from an upper floor, but that's about it.
"You go for a medical call and it turns out their is a gas leak instead. You're medical only rig isn't very helpful in that scenario." in years working in EMS I never had that issue; My gas warning device never went off on any incident. If it goes off, then we let dispatch send the FD.
"Car accident with an injured patient in a burning vehicle." that's the point where dispatch sends the FD here as well, but not for e.g. chest pain or a possible fracture inside an apartment / house
"nor due you have the man power to drive that many or the time to wait that long. " here we do ... even volunteers will roll out with multiple trucks then.
Here the Engine is the multifunctional apparatus: carries water, foam, hoses, ground ladders, full set of rescue equipment, smaller tools for technical assistance, wet vacuum cleaner, jumping cushion, EMS backpack, brushfire equipment etc. Still it takes many other apparatus to deal with different kinds of scenarios.
@@EnjoyFirefighting Think it might fall on deaf ears
@@EnjoyFirefighting We beat our ambulance crews by about 5 minutes every single time and our ambulance is in our town. For our neighboring departments that use our towns ambulance crew they beat them there by up to 20 minutes keep in mind the towns are 7 and 15 minutes away respectively.
Now I completely agree we should not be sending firefighters to every l medical call but we have a truly severe shortage of EMTs in the U.S. Local municipalities are never going to spend the money to staff enough EMTs to be able to respond efficiently when they have the fire department there that can respond 1st while the EMTs get there.
Well I used the gas leak example because it's happened to me before. Fire departments aren't judged for the things they do everyday they're judged for the things that happen only a few times in their entire career and how they handle it. As important as it is do nail the calls that come in 99% of the time you gotta be ready to nail the call thar comes in once too because if you don't your community will never forget it.
Basically it sounds like what you're saying is it's really dumb for us to have our fire departments run medical calls and I completely. I was actually just talking to my mom who is becoming an EMT that this whole fire departments also being well trained EMS but not being able to actually transport the patient is really dumb. We'll even drive the ambulance for our local crew if they are short staffed that's how much stuff we do for them. But anyways it's a dumb system that local mundane up with to deal with the ever increasing medical calls without having to spend all that much more money. The fire department already exists let's just make them go on more calls instead of getting more ambulance personal so they can respond in a timely manner. It's a dumb system and it absolutely needs to change because it sucks and is very problematic.
@@oscarosullivan4513 Why do you think it'll fall on deaf ears? I agree with the primary view that we shouldn't be sending fire departments to every medical call Unfortunately we do. Even in this original video that still wanted the fire department to respond to medical calls just in smaller rigs.
@@EnjoyFirefighting why a fire truck to a medical call indeed… how long do you have, because i reckon the answer to that question might involve unpicking the US healthcare system.
When speaking on the US side of the pond, lumping the tactical needs of a rural department vs. city departments are so very much different.
Its always fascinated me that for many, many years, American fire trucks have been so long that they need a separate steering position at the rear of the vehicle.
It's a very small percentage that do. Only specialized ladder trucks. Only the BIG city departments will have them.
Here in Australia we have a huge range of Fire and Rescue vehicles. In the city smaller more agile trucks that don't carry much if any water are used. We still have some longer with high reach capacity but we don't have as many tall buildings as most city's in the USA. In regional and rural areas high clearance vehicles with water carrying capacity and all terrain modifications are used and dirt roads and rocky ground is more commonly encountered. We also have smaller pickup style trucks for rapid response for vehicle crashes and elevator style emergencies rather than sending a whole truck they send specialist personnel and equipment to those jobs.
Not to mention a rural fire brigade that operates different trucks and usually operates In Rural areas, farmland and forests.
The Dandenong CFA has at least one 4-axle ladder in their fleet.
“In Europe, streets tend to be tighter”
*proceeds to have an image of an Australian fire truck*
4:28
Don't forget the FRNSW truck in the thumbnail 🤣
well im a ex firefighter from smalltown Mo we need bigger trucks here to hold more water cus it not like you can pull up to a house and hook up to the garden hose. you also have dept here that only have 2 or 3 trucks so need the space to haul all the gear
Me as a singapore local, I can tell you that you are correct. Scdf does use the red rhino but SCDF does have bigger European sized fire trucks, pump ladders and aerial ladders just in case
It's so funny to see this form a Swedish perspective as we have trucks built more like American ones, just with European style, and our fire engines are the same way, we pretty much exclusively use Scania trucks with a proper big box on the back, I'm no fire fighter but if I'd have to pick between more southern European trucks or American style I'd probably pick the American, but I'd say that our Swedish Scanias are probably the best of both worlds minus tall af latter's
"as we have trucks built more like American ones" not sure which ones you are talking about, or in which aspect you think they'd be more like American ones. No custom trucks, no mid-mount or tiller ladders etc
I think this is a classic case of "just in case", same with why many people buy SUVs and bigger trucks than they need.
@@Bobspineable this. Have small efficient engines and also some bigger ones that will be always available when it's needed to back-up the smaller fleet
@@Bobspineable even compact trucks can carrry lots of different equipment, when you store all the stuff efficiently; It's like Tetris on many trucks from Europe
@@bandvitromania9642 most major fd use have both. Fire “engines” and ladder and tiller ladder trucks which are significantly larger
Most major most of the world doesn’t split firefighters into pump and aerial appliance for their career.
@@EnjoyFirefighting The difference between efficient storage and convenient storage is not a line worth crossing in a smaller truck. You would have to carefully manage how your equipment is divided between apparatus, but don't pack things to the door.
in Europe : shows pictures of japan and australia
Project Farm: "Kinipex" (Pronounced Nip-ex, with a silent K)
Cheddar: "Chassiss" (prounounced Cha-see)
North American firetruck are not 10 feet wide considering the maximum width of a vehicle is 8 feet 6 inches without over dimensional permits. The total width from mirror arm to mirror arm is 8 feet 5 inches. Also we use larger units because they serve as more than one thing, such as a "rescue pumper". One side of the unit carries various technical rescue tools and the other side is the equipment used for firefighting operations. And a "quint" is 5 separate trucks combined into 1 six man unit
be sure, Europeans know what rescue pumpers and quints are as they have them in their fleets as well
Are the comments limited based on the incorrect pronunciation of “chassis”?
😞
@@cheddar I'm not going to watch the video ( no offence 🤷 ) #JustSaying🙋 I think it's a good idea your ambulances in America have blood donation supplies ( of blood 🩸 ) in the back of them . Wish it were the case with Australian ambulances 🚑 { watching CZcams from Australia 🇦🇺 } .
♑️ ✍️🇦🇺🇳🇴 *Guess you need blood donations ready in the back of your ambulances , due to the rate of massacres .
As an emergency worker I have a lot of joint activity for NSW F&R. Pretty sure the largest fire Engines in Australia are the Bronto Skylift (4 axle Heavy Rigid). We also have semi trailer tankers for water supply as well but most engines in the big cities are Scania or Merc twin axle class 1 to 3 tankers/pumps/Rescue. Like mentioned 90-95% of Fire and Rescue jobs are not actually confronting fires ie MVC, Hazmat, Rescue. Engines are spread out within the City Suburbs and are always pretty close on hand to immediately respond to incidents.
Bronto are a Finnish company who manufacture aerial platforms up to 112 metres high, which are used throughout the world. Most Bronto Skylift units in Australia are eight axle 44 metre units, although there a few shorter two and three axle units.
4:20 In Europe those poles that separate the bike lanes can be run over by a firetruck like nothing. Once the firetruck is gone, they go back up like nothing happened. However, when a car drives over it, the car will be broken.
there are different types of poles, like solid and flexible ones
@@EnjoyFirefighting Where I live in Europe, we have the flexible once on the road, and the non-flexible, but removable once on the pavement.
@@Ceelbc the situation is very different from country to country, and even within the countries
@@EnjoyFirefighting True. Anyway, if they make the poles flexible, then their problem is solved.