338: 458 Win Mag - BEST All Around Cartridge?
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! How would you like a cartridge that spits a 30-grain bullet 5000 feet per second? Well, we have a patron here who might be making one, but if that's too small and fast for you, we have another patron who prefers for his all-around versatile rifle, a 458 Winchester Magnum. Let's dive right in on this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
30.12 I'm so glad you use your platform to advocate responsible hunting ...I wish other platforms will do the same !
It's funny that this video comes out with this idea of versatility with the .458 Win Mag. I recently moved to Alaska after years of visiting up here and my first local purchase was a used .458 Win Mag in a M77 Ruger. I am already in love. I have started developing loads for it from 300 grain Barnes TSX's up to 730 grain hard cast bullets with 350s, 400s, and 500s in between. I look forward to your video.
Congrats on the move! I bet it is beautiful up there!
I have a Win 70 Safari in 458 Win that I use for Bison here in the Yukon. It shoots 300 and 350 grain TSX bullets really well at 2700 and 2500 fps respectfully (MOA or close to it). The light bullets have far less recoil and a better trajectory but the bc is a bit low so bullet expansion is the limiting factor as ranges increase and bullet velocity is lost. 400 grain Barnes Original Spitzers or Woodleighs at 2400 ft/sec are probably the head of the class here. It's a fun round and with careful loading can be great for Moose and Bison and the big Bears here in North America.
Matt carriker from demolition ranch has been seeing a doe running around his abandoned resort that he's been renovating with an arrow sticking through her head. A neighbor said she'sbeenseen aroundfora whilenow, & Matt's been talking about tranquilizers so he can possibly remove the arrow. It is through her head & coming out her eye socket. But she's adapted to it, & it doesn't seem to be causing her any real problems. & For those who are about to jump the gun, Matt & his Dad are both veterinarians. & very qualified for the job. So even with a wound the size of a broadhead throughtheskull, isn't a guarantee for a clean kill shot. I agree with You completely Ron. I avoid the head & neck & stick to the primary broadside vitals.
Wow , what flavor is Matts farts ? If Matt jumped off a bridge ; would you ?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’d love a 458 win mag to rebore into a 458 Lott! 😃👍🏻 A future project that I would like to complete. Already have a 416 rem but interested in a fun project. Thanks Ron for a great video!
Love hearing all about the African cartridges and rilfes too. Not just Winchester model 70s. Let’s hear about some of the weatherby African magnums or the Holland and holland magnum cartridges. That would be an interesting video. Thanks again.
Why a 458 if you allready have a 416? whatever you shoot at will be just as dead with the 416 as with the 458. BUT, Why not, maybe wife won't notice another rifle in the rack🤣
I can say that a 30grain 20cal out of a 30in barrel, in a 20XC will go 5000fps. Also turned some 17.5 grain bullets out of brass that run 5500fps, unsure of the barrel life so far though it’s been acceptable at about 1in groups. Certainly need to solve the barrel life issue but certainly fun to play with.
Great video as always Ron. Thank you and best wishes for a joyous Holiday Season.
The German 7 x 64 Brenneke has been hunting every plains game in Africa since 1917 and guess whos its American coucin ... the 280 Rem, great cartridge, undervalued
Having shot almost every caliber between 17 and 50. I'd pick the 35 Whelen as my do everything cartridge. Can use handgun bullets for varmints right on up to 275gr or more with Buffalo bore specialty bullets for dangerous game!
You are correct, Ron, a neck shot, like a headshot in self-defense, should never be a first choice.
I love the 280 it's my favorite cartridge that I own.
Thanks for using my comment Ron , have a good Christmas.
All 3 of you guys are great!!! I watch you all. Two thumbs up!!!
The .458 Win Mag can also be a black powder cartridge, something to consider in a possible SHTF scenario. Regular .458 brass might be too tough to provide a safe gas seal with some loads with the low pressures of black powder but should not be a problem with heavy bp loads. Combine that with a cartridge that is stellar with cast bullets and you have a very versatile cartridge. I think he makes a good choice.
9,3x62 is the best all round cartridge
Yes very good cartridge, I like the 35 Whelen over here in the states!
So funny this video came up. I watch your channel a lot. And just bought my first safari gun (model 70 .458 win mag).
I don't hunt big game.. yet. But just love guns and the cartridges they fire. Keep up the good work, Ron!
I built a 458 cuz i wanted a big bore. Come to find it is very versatile. So i agree. I think you can get down to 250 gr up to 600+. The 300 gr stuff can be loaded down to 45/70 or loaded up with a higher bc tipped tsx for flatter trajectory. Can even do subsonic black powder type loads with cast bullets. Fun stuff
Hi Ron. Another informative video, as always. For safety and to properly fire form a rifle brass case, I would ANENAL the case to about 50% of the case length from the neck. The softened brass will much more easily form to the chamber with a significantly lowered stress imposed on the brass as it is "blasted" to the chamber profile from the previous case profile. The greater the space that must be formed into, the greater the stress on that area of the case being fire formed, which would be closest to the taper and neck. Your brass will almost certainly last much longer being fire formed while annealed than with the harder case before annealing. The process of fire forming the rifle case brass after being annealed will also start to re-temper the brass. The neck should then also be at a good, or minimum temper, after the fire forming process, for your actual reloads. The purpose for annealing the neck of a case is to soften the metal because just firing the cartridge will temper the neck; which if it has too much temper will increase the chance that the neck will crack from being die formed, the bullet inserted into the case and then fired again. Too much annealing is not good and also too much temper is not good. For the maximum case life; It would be a good idea to re-anneal the rifle cases after about every 3 reloads. Ferrous metals are tempered by heating, then rapid cooling; whereas, non ferrous metals, like brass, are tempered by heating then cooling slowly. A reloader should learn the proper annealing procedure when attempting to make accurate reloads that give consistent performance. Hunt ethically, honestly and shoot straight. Have a great day.
I wish a company would develop a modernized 458 win mag. A straight walled, rimless, big bore perhaps based on the 30-06 cartridge or 284 Winchester to make a long action 450 bushmaster. Something that could be lightly loaded for deer and turned to 11 for dangerous game all in an affordable, common rifle action. The cost of entry for big bore can be preventative for folks such as myself. It likely tempts new hunters going on safari to not have enough practice firing their rifle due to ammo cost and the initial cost of the rifle.
CZ big bore rifles aren't that expensive, you can get a CZ for .458 Lott and win mag for under 2000 US dollars.
Hey Ron, I am no doubt a gun nut and nostalgic. I have always wanted a 280 remington but decided to currently go the long way around getting one. I knew the cartridge I wanted and the barrel type I wanted. Which was a 1/8 twist, medium weight barrel 22 inch and threaded. I had 2 30-06 rifles in Savage axis so I decided to purchased a shaw custom barrel to my specifications. I am waiting on the head space gauges. The stock will need a little modification to accommodate the thicker contour barrel but I have already found the boyds stock to go with this awesome caliber! Ps I do reload as well. Can't wait to see this rifle complete! Just thought I'd share! Keep up the great work!!! Chad
Hi Ron. Totally enjoyed this latest video. For me it was 1 am when you aired last night. It was worth staying up for it. As always you right on with your thoughts and comments. I have been watching you for years and reading your articles far longer. I hope I have not started a hornets nest with my assertion that the 458 wm is an all around 45 cal cartridge that is even more versatile than the venerable 45-70. Your wisdom is always appreciated. I look forward to your take on the versatility of the 458 win mag. I’ve been wrong in the past about some ideas. My wife says I’m wrong quite often 😂
Hey Ron.
Another species introduced to New Zealand was the largest Coho in the world. They were moved there in the early 1900's from the Elwaha River on the norther tip of the Olympic peninsula. The river was dammed to create electricity for a mill in Port Angeles.
The current owner of the fish hatchery didn't know they were there because they were in a pond in the back side of the property. He saw one "roll" through and its huge tail came out. They could get well over 100 lbs.
As a kid growing up in Forks in the 60's I got to see some big lunkers come out of the Sol duc, Boggie, and the Hoh. Along with the straight and the rock pile west of LaPush. It was common to see 50 ponders and occasional 75 lbs. It's sad to see the runs so small and the size less than half in weight.
I was glad to see the documentary on the preservation of these beautiful, And tasty, fish be save on the other side of the world.
Big fan of the neck shot myself. But the jist of the whole discussion in this video is that there’s no substitute for marksmanship, good advice for anyone.
Hello, just cuz I seen you had a couple of mentions of PO Ackley, I thought I just say that my great grandfather was close friends with him. He had Ackley teach him about gunsmithing, and he got to witness him testing some improved cartridges.
This is also my round that I use open sights.The 458 win mag.My lovely rifle is a model 70 Winchester made in 1959.I bought it off a gentleman that had two shots from the org 1950’s box of Winchester 500 grain dangerous game box that is beautiful by the way.I love this rifle great accuracy from hand-loads.I thought I was the only one that seen it’s potential.
I will be very interested in your .458 video! I have been trying to think of what I could use as a do everything cartridge. I've been leaning toward the 45-70, but, I may change my mind. Looking forward to your video on the .458! Thanks!
Ron, love the podcasts and videos always learn lots and good entertainment, I’ve got a question and a bit of good news. I am currently taking a gunsmithing course could give any book recommendations for more reading material? And the good news, deer season 2023 was a huge success, I got my first whitetail deer in six years and I got my first ever mule deer
If it’s a bolt-action rifle, it’s got a good trigger and scope, and the user can shoot it well, and it’ll take everything from coyotes and bobcats to bovine and hippopotamuses.
In regards to the 458 Win, I mean.
I would like to see one on 325 magnum
I had a .458 Win way back in the early 80s. I fired that thing all of four times and the recoil was so bad I took it back to where I bought it then took a loss money wise when they bought it back. Ouch.!
Ron, what about the .950 JDJ? You can use it for anything from prairie dogs to blue whales.
Hey Ron, in response to the person working on a 5k fps cartridge.
If they're really hellbent on doing this, I suggest they look at Weatherby. They've figured out the whole "smaller bullet in a bigger case moving very very fast"
Also note that they sometimes use custom made projectiles so they don't fall apart or deform while moving through the air. I believe the one I'm thinking of was a ballistic tip that was melting halfway to the target.
Now, if people will be interested in the cartridge, I don't know. What problem would it solve that other cartridges can't?
CORRETION Ron thanks for a great podcast i listen to it everyday as i work at the local lumbermill i often go back and listen to older podcasts and in one of them you got a question about 9,3x57 and you mistook it for 8x57 the 8x57is shoots a .318 diameter bullet vs the 8x57j that shoots the .323 diamter bullet the 9,3x57 however is a 8x57 necked up to take the same bullets as a 9,3x62 .366 diameter bullets swedish Huskvarna made rifles from old mauser 96 actions and later 98 actions in 9,3x57 i have one myself a huskvarna model 46 (96 action) made in 1931! shoots great out to 100-150m i use the 285grain norma alaska bullets end of rant thanks again Ron listening to you reminds me of my hunting mentor who passed away in 2016 happy holidays Ron hunt honest and shoot straight! sincerly Henrik from south sweden
Thanks Henrik! I sometimes get my numbers mixed up on all those European metrics. You guys have as many redundant cartridges as we! At least some of ours have memorable titles the help them stand out. 220 Swift, 221 Fireball,
Since the 458 (lott, wm, 458x2" American) is a straight wall cartridge the real versatility would be in different case lengths offered for the same rifle. Then in theory it would be everything from a dangerous game to deer cartridge, though at shorter distances
Missed opportunity here - episode 338???
458 great cartridge for bruised shoulders. Lol
More and more I realize that so many "best" or "perfect things" are really just that in the opinion of the person making the statement. For someone that's looking for a single rifle that legally can be used on anything from whitetail to Cape Buffalo, why not? I'd personally choose the 375 H&H, but, to each his own. As far as the 30gr pill at 5000 fps....well, unless the barrel was salt bath nitrided, I would bet that the throat erosion would be significant after a couple of hundred rounds. My 223 WSSM had barrel erosion after 150 rounds. But if you want something crazy, build a 22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer.
Ron I am interested in this as well as I have a 458 Lott and I want to use it for deer and was wondering the range using lighter bullets like Barnes 250 TSX or 300 gr these should be viable bullets for some distance of 200-300 yards
Hey Ron! Can I throw this out? A comparison between.35 Remington and.35 Whelen. May I ask which rifle magazine you wrote for? I may have read some of it. Always been in to ballistics. Started with throwing rocks, slingshots, primitive bows then pellet guns. I really appreciate your knowledge, experience and your willingness to share. Take care.
Woods, I've written for several dozen magazines over the years. The one you might be thinking of is Rifle magazine out of Prescott, AZ. Wolfe Publishing. It's still going.
Sounds like 20 Primal
Look at the numbers for 30-35 grainers in the 22-250 AI loaded with IMR 3031
I am sure Hornady and Nosler load the 280 ai and also sell brass?
You are correct I see it at the local sporting good stores all the time from both of them but it’s not cheap but now days what is🤔😳
Hello Ron.. Allen here from Northeastern Ontario Canada. Just wanted your opinion on my 300 Savage bolt action WSM with a bull barrel. The clip keeps falling out. I tried another brand new clip and the same thing happens. I adjusted the catch on the clip. No luck.. it's a beautiful rifle.. but lm thinking of selling it and buying a 7mm PRC. Also would lke to see a video on the 303 Lee Enfield or the British, with new powder apabilities/ accuracys and so on. Thank again in advance..👍🏼
I'd have to look at the rifle to fully understand, but seems to me the locking catch for the magazine inside of the rifle is worn, thus even a new magazine doesn't stick.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors in a brand new rifle
A chrome barrel bore will help it not burn out as fast.
15.5 grain .17remington can do 4917 ft/s
7mm rem mag
Hi Ron. Are over barrel suppressors not legal in USA? Here in New Zealand many of our cans are 8-10” but only 2” protrudes past barrel the rest is behind the crown. Makes my7mm 08 in 20” barrel only 22” suppressed
NZ and UK is a little more progressive . I wish we could have them in OZ .. its hot with muffs on
Not illegal here, but require govt. approval, long process, red tape, etc. Silly, but provides $ for bureaucrats. Somebody has to feed them.
458 is a good gun if you're not shooting a long distance.
5000 fps would have to be smooth bore just look at tanks smooth bore and sabots but i guess there going a little bit faster
The reason for smoothbore tank guns was the HEAT and some pentrators . the Challenger 2 uses a rifled gun with APFSDS at 5400 fps.
16.38 Very responsible and senible point made Ron... lets hope it does not fall on death ears... which no doubt it will with some... unfortunately
I allso have a 458. It is very versatile, But hardly the best allround cartridge.
Ron when interviewing 'Who TEE Who' ask him about a survey he did in which he asked his audience (some 500 000 listeners) to comment on If, when and how many does should be hunted by a hunter in a season ... 42% of his respondents said ... 'yes hunt as many does as you want, any time of the year as you want, without limits' .... mmmm I struggle to see the 'sustainable wildlife management' in that strategy... is it because of a lack of education ? or because hunting public land in the US put little value on wildlife ? ... I was quite shocked to see his survey results... here in Africa I'm 100% sure no hunter will have that view point because as you know here you have to pay for game, no free hunting, and game is an income for farmers so they manage the wildlife in a very responsible and optimum manner
Open, in some parts of the U.S. whitetail deer are seriously overpopulated to the point of altering plant diversity. Many woodlands no longer have enough ground cover to sustain ground nesting warblers, thrushes, ruffed grouse, etc. Folks who see that are probably the ones advocating unlimited doe harvest. Crop damage and vehicle collisions are also issues.
They don’t let Scottish people have rifles!!!😂😂
First?
Good for you that you didn’t read the “proselytizing”. It’s too personal and can be too much sometimes.
However, if you are a true disciple of Christ, you'd never pass up an opportunity to glorify your Creator.
"best all around cartridge" is kind of a ridiculous statement. It's overkill for anything but African game or maybe big Alaskan bears. Is it a great round ? Maybe but completely unnecessary to use that large of a caliber. To call it the best around cartridge is idiotic.
Clickbait...
Thanks Ron .
Stay away from religion and plitics. My 93yrld mother will still not tell who she votes for . Take it fromm a wise woman . Stalking close and glassing are the best parts of hunting
Religion and politics, yes, but those are both a far cry from a personal relationship with the Creator of the heavens, this earth, and you and I, which will not only drastically improve your life now but for eternity.
@@bryandale7125 please refer to my initial statement.
Unfortunately Mike, I don't believe Ron is a bible-believing disciple of Christ, otherwise he would never pass up an opportunity to glorify his Creator and Lord and Savior Jesus of Nazareth.
But there is power in prayer, so never stop praying for Ron, "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard." Romans 3:23
Dude talking about his magic 30 grain bullet at 5000 fps is completely making stuff up. Bro doesn't even know his basics
Yes, just like you, "Dude".