Interesting indeed... Some time ago I heard guys talking about FIM or some other regulations about wsbk or bsb or whatever so basically they were saying that the chassis and engine block have to be as oem spec or something like that so it'd make sense for manufacturers to design blocks with cassette type gearbox applications I guess? Also there are few other extra lugs or non drilled or threaded bracket places that could accommodate oversize radiator or bottom mounted rear brake caliper (at least it looks like it) so yeah I don't know if I'm right or wrong but it'd kinda make sense to me to design them like that if I was a manufacturer. The bikes I'm talking about are 2009 R1 & 2013 R1. About non high performance bikes that I don't know honestly.
One of if not the earliest example was used on Harley Sportsters (in the 1950s, those were off-road racers) which made for swift and easy transmission swaps. HD big twins (the bean counters kill them on Sportster) still use them and they make transmission swaps and servicing a breeze. HD realized the original owner is wildly unlikely to replace a Sportster gearbox and when it's out of warranty it's no longer their problem. (Rubbermount Sportsters with transmission problems go cheap as it's often better to swap in a used engine than pay retail for a teardown but it's not hard to DIY.) Big twin owners strongly prefer the cassette (makes for easy installs of Baker seven speeds etc) so they keep them. Cassette boxes are wonderful for mechanics, but modern manufacturers don't care much about us. 8-(
my engine had loads of crap in it when i dropped the pan because i dropped a valve spring colet, the worst part is i have no clue how much was already in there or if i even grabbed the one i dropped, but everything was in great shape and the bits that were down there had no marks or any signs they hit the engine at any time, but i'm glad i found it out but the question if i got it all still lingers about in my head from time to time
Could it also be, production line speed of manufacture makes it profitable to offset the cost of the extra expensive of the cassette? I.E. the bottom end is assembled and moved down a line where someone slaps the gearbox in and all the support bits at the same time saving time on the line. Just a thought.
The cassette gearbox is also easy to repair and maintain since you do not need to take the whole engine apart to work on it. Like the BMW K1200 has a shitty gearbox due to size and torque it needs to handle. But to be lucky the K1300 has most shite sorted out and will fit in the K1200. So if that bitch ever breaks on a K1200 you might as well put a K1300 gearbox in it. And that is all made within an hour! To change the gearbox without that cassette system it might take a whole day or even more. And when your gearbox breaks on an non cassette system it could be the end of the whole engine but with the cassette system you might want to change a few bearings and flush the metal bits out of the engine and replace the oil pump before dropping in the new gearbox and it is good as a new engine. I think the "plug and play" system can save you from mayor repair costs too.
yes but normally how ogten does the gearnox break before the engine itself breaks? or if the gearbox breaks before then the engine itself should have a maintenance i think but im could be wrong im just a bit of guessing
@@assi2assi It varies but ease of maintenance is always an advantage. Many BMW owners keep their machines a very long time and tearing down a perfectly good motor or gearbox to service a broken motor or gearbox is an unnecessary asspain.
Horizontally split cases are the next best thing to a cassette gear box in that you don't have to take the engine portion apart...cylinders Pistons crank head all can stay together. Now you are wrong about transmission troubles meaning you have to overhaul the entire engine due to metal fragments ...yes that could be the case but a lot of times it could just be maybe burnt a burnt shift fork or something has worn or bent (fork) to the point of faulty shifting. And frankly even a non- professional COULD benefit tuning wise if he used the same bike for much different purposes time to time ...could pull out the normally used close ratio gearset and slide in a ready to go wide ratio unit for an annual event out west where it is a lot of wide open instead of more normal tight single track. Except for potential added weight, the BEST kind of cassette gearbox in my opinion is entirely modular where it has it's OWN case area, it OWN oil that is not shared with the engine ...I actually had that arrangement on my first real MX bike ...a 1972 AJS 250 Stormer. It had a great BOX, A primary/clutch case and the engine all bolted together. It looked very heavy but somehow they made the bike roughly same weight at competition that all had what became the new standard Unitized construction. Although the modular approach is really sweet to work on, there is more complexity ....more metal ...extra seals and coupling points.... I honestly believe a MAIN reason manufacturers don't bother giving such things to consumer is simply they don't want machines that are easy to keep going forever. They want machines to become obsolete in a few years and I worthy of a lengthy repair process. Make it simple enough and people will keep them forever! They would become like the VW beetle which was simple enough that people actually repaired their own card and aftermarket became so HUGE you could build a vehicle from the ground up without using a single VW part! That is TRUE! NONE of the manufacturers WANT that for their vehicles! Their actual plan is that if you buy a $10k bike this year? In five years it will look outdated and in ten years even in pristine condition it will be only worth a fraction of the original cost EVEN if still pristine! Now the only exceptions to this are when a company literally makes no mechanical changes over the years like KLR650 or Honda XR650L etc...then the old ones are not so obsolete given they are all the same ...I LOVE THAT ! I do wish it were the case for every category of vehicle...timeless models that remain the same classic original design with improvements done by owner via aftermarket! Good resale and WORTH fixing and upgrading!
Interesting indeed... Some time ago I heard guys talking about FIM or some other regulations about wsbk or bsb or whatever so basically they were saying that the chassis and engine block have to be as oem spec or something like that so it'd make sense for manufacturers to design blocks with cassette type gearbox applications I guess? Also there are few other extra lugs or non drilled or threaded bracket places that could accommodate oversize radiator or bottom mounted rear brake caliper (at least it looks like it) so yeah I don't know if I'm right or wrong but it'd kinda make sense to me to design them like that if I was a manufacturer. The bikes I'm talking about are 2009 R1 & 2013 R1. About non high performance bikes that I don't know honestly.
One of if not the earliest example was used on Harley Sportsters (in the 1950s, those were off-road racers) which made for swift and easy transmission swaps. HD big twins (the bean counters kill them on Sportster) still use them and they make transmission swaps and servicing a breeze. HD realized the original owner is wildly unlikely to replace a Sportster gearbox and when it's out of warranty it's no longer their problem. (Rubbermount Sportsters with transmission problems go cheap as it's often better to swap in a used engine than pay retail for a teardown but it's not hard to DIY.) Big twin owners strongly prefer the cassette (makes for easy installs of Baker seven speeds etc) so they keep them. Cassette boxes are wonderful for mechanics, but modern manufacturers don't care much about us. 8-(
Polish Sokół 600 RT is first cassete gearbox in motorcycle.
my engine had loads of crap in it when i dropped the pan because i dropped a valve spring colet, the worst part is i have no clue how much was already in there or if i even grabbed the one i dropped, but everything was in great shape and the bits that were down there had no marks or any signs they hit the engine at any time, but i'm glad i found it out but the question if i got it all still lingers about in my head from time to time
Could it also be, production line speed of manufacture makes it profitable to offset the cost of the extra expensive of the cassette? I.E. the bottom end is assembled and moved down a line where someone slaps the gearbox in and all the support bits at the same time saving time on the line. Just a thought.
Never thought of that, its a good point since all the bike manufacturers have switched over to LEAN production - nice
The cassette gearbox is also easy to repair and maintain since you do not need to take the whole engine apart to work on it. Like the BMW K1200 has a shitty gearbox due to size and torque it needs to handle. But to be lucky the K1300 has most shite sorted out and will fit in the K1200. So if that bitch ever breaks on a K1200 you might as well put a K1300 gearbox in it. And that is all made within an hour! To change the gearbox without that cassette system it might take a whole day or even more. And when your gearbox breaks on an non cassette system it could be the end of the whole engine but with the cassette system you might want to change a few bearings and flush the metal bits out of the engine and replace the oil pump before dropping in the new gearbox and it is good as a new engine. I think the "plug and play" system can save you from mayor repair costs too.
yes but normally how ogten does the gearnox break before the engine itself breaks? or if the gearbox breaks before then the engine itself should have a maintenance i think
but im could be wrong im just a bit of guessing
@@assi2assi It varies but ease of maintenance is always an advantage. Many BMW owners keep their machines a very long time and tearing down a perfectly good motor or gearbox to service a broken motor or gearbox is an unnecessary asspain.
Horizontally split cases are the next best thing to a cassette gear box in that you don't have to take the engine portion apart...cylinders Pistons crank head all can stay together. Now you are wrong about transmission troubles meaning you have to overhaul the entire engine due to metal fragments ...yes that could be the case but a lot of times it could just be maybe burnt a burnt shift fork or something has worn or bent (fork) to the point of faulty shifting. And frankly even a non- professional COULD benefit tuning wise if he used the same bike for much different purposes time to time ...could pull out the normally used close ratio gearset and slide in a ready to go wide ratio unit for an annual event out west where it is a lot of wide open instead of more normal tight single track.
Except for potential added weight, the BEST kind of cassette gearbox in my opinion is entirely modular where it has it's OWN case area, it OWN oil that is not shared with the engine ...I actually had that arrangement on my first real MX bike ...a 1972 AJS 250 Stormer. It had a great BOX, A primary/clutch case and the engine all bolted together. It looked very heavy but somehow they made the bike roughly same weight at competition that all had what became the new standard Unitized construction. Although the modular approach is really sweet to work on, there is more complexity ....more metal ...extra seals and coupling points....
I honestly believe a MAIN reason manufacturers don't bother giving such things to consumer is simply they don't want machines that are easy to keep going forever. They want machines to become obsolete in a few years and I worthy of a lengthy repair process. Make it simple enough and people will keep them forever! They would become like the VW beetle which was simple enough that people actually repaired their own card and aftermarket became so HUGE you could build a vehicle from the ground up without using a single VW part! That is TRUE! NONE of the manufacturers WANT that for their vehicles! Their actual plan is that if you buy a $10k bike this year? In five years it will look outdated and in ten years even in pristine condition it will be only worth a fraction of the original cost EVEN if still pristine! Now the only exceptions to this are when a company literally makes no mechanical changes over the years like KLR650 or Honda XR650L etc...then the old ones are not so obsolete given they are all the same ...I LOVE THAT ! I do wish it were the case for every category of vehicle...timeless models that remain the same classic original design with improvements done by owner via aftermarket! Good resale and WORTH fixing and upgrading!
I would love to swap my gearbox with a fat boy slim Cassette
I thought cassette gearboxes were on small 2t bikes that you played tunes on up and down the box to keep it on the boil 😂😂😂
here after seeing the new ZX10R . .