When i think about that, really the best ending Tolkien could have ever written. It's so exceptional yet makes so much sense after everything Frodo, Sam and Bilbo did. And for Gimli, the fact a dwarf as such an honor, thanks to the permit of Galadriel herself, as well as his friendship with legolas , is one of the biggest messages of hope, unity and friendship Tolkien ever gave us
@@laborincana4490 Yes, and all the others are not. The ultimate purpose of the Elves is to be a weapon used against Morgoth in the final battle after the fourth age, afterwards they will perish forever. It is actually quite a cruel story, considering it is basically just God experimenting with the world before he finally makes it. The fifth age is strongly implied to be just the bible, as Tolkien was a staunch catholic. For that reason, I also think the true reason on why Tolkien never revealed the true origin of the orcs is because they are Avari who willfully gave themselves to Morgoth after realizing their intended purpose as Illuvatar's guinea pigs.
@@madness9651No, they will not perish forever. That's just an angsty theory some Elves came up with, when in fact simply nothing has been said about them after the end of Arda Marred. That's why it's a question of faith in Eru, and both the Elves and Men are equal in this - neither kindred knows what happens to them after death (the death of your body with the Men and the death of your world with the Elves. They both have to trust Eru and have faith that Eru has good will towards them and has a good future planned for them.
@@AnnaMarianne Well, we know that the 7th age is the AD times. That means the sixth age is the BC times and the fifth age must be Eden times. No Elves are found anywhere.
Nope it’s a curse. I would give everything to stop aging and be able to live through next 100~200 years to see humans finally spreading to the space and colonizating, and all the new technology we’ll eventually develop.
@@username.exenotfound2943 Irrelevant. Life is still full of hardships and pain, regardless of our memory. Now multiply experiencing them by infinity and forced to experience them endlessly. And being trapped in this world forever, without the choice to even die; is a curse.
@@peterang6912 Even then, it was like at a party when you can't remember someone's name, and then upon hearing someone else say it, you over-use it. "Hello, er, uhm, glad to see you!" Then Manwë says, "Legolas, welcome to Valinor!" Then Frodo's like, "Yes, Legolas, glad to see you again, Legolas, my dear friend Legolas! Let me tell you, sir, if it wasn't for Legolas here, the whole thing would have gone the other way, isn't that right, Legolas?!"
Do you actually believe that lol? That was movie version anyway. And it was a look of awe and beauty as if frodo was speechless to see the elf walk in. Peter jackson isnt that dumb.
Wise among the elves looked at the mortal humans and hobbits with a keen sense of loss and wonder at the mystery of their passing. Elves will live as long as Arda does, so I'm sure they wonder at, and perhaps sometimes envy, the Gift of Men.
@@sideeggunnecessary But during Bilbo's brief stay in the Halls of Mandos, just moments before Eru reclaimed his life, he miighht have met the other dwarves. We are told that dwarves are not immortal like Elves, but nor do they die like Men. They stay in the Halls of Mandos, awaiting the day when Aulë Mahal calls them for the Second Music of the Ainur.
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849 He is right, and yes many whose bodies come back their minds and souls are haunted forever. It has taken many years of counseling and the wounds still ache, some pains never go away.
With exception that Frodo, Bilbo and Sam were bearers of the One Ring which stretch their life and perhaps make them almost immortal or something alike. This specify why Sam made the journey after his beloved died of old age. So it was very possible that Gimili and Legolas meet all three of them.
Bilbo was not living much longer after sailing there, and Sam didn't have the ring long enough. Frodo had it for fifty, some-odd years, so it could be possible he lived longer, but definitely not long enough.
That's not necessarily true dwarves go to the hallowed Halls when they die which means that they will come back at the end of the world according to Tolkien so Gimli will reunite with Legolas when the world ends
When you read his thoughts on that concept that mortals in Valinor would perceive time so drastically different it would drive them insane. Also Frodo and Bilbo went to Tol Eressea, which is a part of Aman but not fully, it's still middle earth too. So those effects might be lessened. It'd be messed up if Frodo went there to heal and the whole time he was disoriented and panicked for decades...
They do indeed live shorter lives in Aman, in the same way that if you turn up the voltage your light bulb will burn brighter but also burn out faster.
In Return of the King, Treebeard tells Celeborn and Galadriel that he is sad he will not see them again. Galadriel, who has the gift of foresight, says: "Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!" She is saying the world will someday be remade and they may meet again in the Spring of that new world. I like to think that this means ALL the characters eventually do get reunited someday.
The books are full of Tolkien, and this is what Tolkien intended. Not changing the nature of one’s soul and fate was a core belief within the legendarium.
We often attribute Lord of the Rings to Tolkien, but Tolkien was only the surviving part of this legacy produced by himself, Geoffrey B. Smith, Christopher Wiseman and Rob Gilson, before they all died in the first world war, leaving Tolkien with this "bundle of notes", that he later compiled into several books. The way Bilbo leaves his book to Frodo and they both go to the undying lands in the end, reminds me about the way Tolkien's friends departed from this life and how he later joined them. The story fells real because all the feelings involving Tolkien's life and true friendship were so strong.
Frodo certainly would have lived longer than Sam because he possessed the ring for longer. Bilbo and Frodo both by having the ring for so long were basically given immortality while they had the ring. I'm also thinking being near Valinor it would have extended their life as well. They also wouldn't have been able to pass the mountains
I like to think the undying lands would significantly extend the life of a mortal (not in an unnatural way) because it's uncorrupted and inhabited by gods/immortals but I've heard that it actually shortened their lifespan because it was never meant for mortals thus wearing them out. Still my head canon is that it naturally and healthily extends life.
If you take the case of Numenor, while the line of King had elven blood, the rest did not, yet they still had longer life and health, only because in sight of the undying land's light. There is a good case for life to be extended, just not infinitely.
The Undying Lands don't grant immortality, but even being in proximity can dramatically lengthen your life. Case in point: Numenorians. They only gained their various gifts (long life, size and strength, etc.) once they settled in Numenor, and began to wane once they returned to Middle Earth.
Being in the undying lands however makes them live longer than usual lifespams though and Hobbits live a bit longer than normal humans. So its perfectly possible than when Gimli travelled there the Hobbits were still alive.
There's at least one elf who hates doing dishes forever and either becomes an evil overlord or just smashes the plates and makes new ones every day to pass the time.
No, when you go there, you live forever. There was a host of men who sailed there and were caught in a collapsed cavern who will be trapped there forever because they can't die. If I recall correctly.
When Pharazon the Golden, a human, stepped foot on the undying lands to make war on the Powers, he, along with some of his troops, ended up trapped in a cave under the ground. In the books it says they will remain alive until the breaking of the world due to the nature of the undying lands.
This does make more sense why the elves were favored by the divinity in Tolkien’s universe. Since they would have to endure the heartache eternally of losing so many of their friends and loved ones knowing they where to never meet again.
The end of LOTR really is sad, look at Arwen and Aragorn, Aragorn eventually dies of old age, and Arwen is so heartbroken that she almost just fades away, her son takes over the throne and rules steadily (presumed) but Elronds prediction became true, Arwen was heartbroken in her remaining years until she almost did a ''lost the will to live'' and simply passed away.
This is based on literally nothing but my own wishful thinking but: I believe that while mortals are still so, even if they go to Valinor, the amount of "goodness", power, metaphysical beauty and just the very magical nature of the West can at least extend the life of mortals greatly. Similar to how the Ring preserved Bilbo and Smeagol, except, instead of consuming them from the inside out, being in Valinor brings one inner peace, vitality, empowerment, health, joy and calm. Similar to what the Fellowship experienced in Rivendel or Lothlórien, but much MUCH greater. So, while I do agree that Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli eventually passed away peacefully and ready to face death without fear or sadness, I do think that they all lived far FAR beyond their expected years and well into the Age of Man. Similar to how Gollum lived for centuries, and probably could have still lived much longer had the One not left him.
This is my own thought as well. The food, drink, and medicine of the Undying Lands would be far superior to that of Middle-Earth, and the Valar are there to influence things as well - - I think it's likely that the mortal members of the Fellowship (and Bilbo) enjoyed perfect health and freedom from disease, and might even have led to them growing more youthful-looking. Possibly, like the ancient Numenoreans and Aragorn in Middle-Earth, they might even have been given the gift of departing at will.
Sorry to say that while Bilbo and Frodo found healing from the injury of their long years bearing the one Ring, according to at least one letter from JRRT, the power of the blessed realm may have actually sped up their eventual end. They are mortal and are meant for a destiny separate from that of the Firstborn, who are intended to live on Arda for as long as Arda exists. But I don't think it'd be hard to make that decision - live in pain for long years in ME, or live for a shorter while in what amounts to Heaven on Earth, even if it means you'd have to face your death earlier, at least you would do it at peace and in bliss.
While @garmisra7841 is true, we must remember the reason Aman is called the Blessed Land. It is free from the corruption of Melkor, and as such, Death itself will not hurt, pain or grieve as much as it does on Middle-earth.
While it is most likely that the ring bearers and gimli indeed died, as is the fate of the second born, it is not impossible that they, like Tuor, could have been granted immortality. Also, I'm under the impression that only Legolas actually went further west than Tol Eressëa
@@jmad318 The Silmarillion doesn't say he became immortal, only that it later became legend that he did: "...and with Idril Celebrindal he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men."
Bilbo's life was extended by being a bearer of the rings, so Frodo may also have had an unusually long life for a hobbit. It is possible thaf by the time Sam went, having borne the ring temporarily, Frodo was still alive and they could have reunited. As foe Legolas and Gimli, who knows if Frodo was that long lived since he was still under the illness attributed to Shelob's poison.
The thing is that they would have not settled on the mainland of Valinor. They would have remained on the isle of Tol Eressa where they would have died.
Although the Valar might have extended their lives a bit, as that was within their power. One hopes that Galadriel arranged for Gimli to meet Aule while he was there.
Except Tuor . It was because Lord Namo was so scared of lady Idril' anger that he decided to leave them alone and rule in peace. Well , in relative peace.I wonder how many times Feanoro and his sons tried to sneak out from the Halls.😅
It says in the Silmarillion in the Akallabeth, "For it is not the land of Manwe that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast." so they would likely die sooner but it is true they would live longer because of the One Ring. So who knows how long they would have lived in the end. The point of going there was to be at peace in the blissful land until their time came.
And you know what's even more heartbreaking, Gimli would have gone back to the rock as all dwarfs do. Let's change it, gigli was given the privilege of man upon death and sat with eru in the afterlife drinking from curved horns.
It is possible that those tht wnet tot he Undyinglands would be able to reunite as thelife spans would have been greatly increased without the burdens and corruption of Middle Earth which normally brings death eventually. They would live as long as it was possible for their race to live, in peace, and without any kind of deterioration, are illness. Bilbo already having had his life extended may not have lived too many years longer but Frodo could easily ave lived to be 150, or more. Frodo went tot he Undying lands at the age of 134, I think and Frodo was only 53. He could have lived another 100 years in the Undying Lands, only dying long after Gimli and Legolas arrived only 50 years later.
We only see Gandalf, Bilbo, and Frodo sail west though. Where does this revelation that Legolas, Gimli and Sam went there too comes from? Even more, we know from the appendix about Arwen and Aragorn that after his death, Arwen wanted to leave Middle Earth, but there was no ship to take her across such seas, so she ended up choosing a hill on Lothlorien as a final resting place...
Frodo HAD to go to the Undying Lands because though Elrond "healed" Frodo after the morghul blade stabbing, the deadly poisonous blade tip stays embedded, slowly traveling to the heart where it kills the victim. Frodo was not "cured."
Why did sam leave tho ☹️, like frodo was changed by the ring and his life wasn't the same and needed spiritual healing. That's one of the messages of the books, frodo survives the journey but he sacrifices his humanity and becomes broken and unable to recover. But on the other side Sam had much more hope and always wanted to go back and had a family, Sam survived, psysically and spiritually, why did he go then?
I like to think that because both Frodo and Sam were ring bearers that their life was extended and that they did survive to meet their old friend Gimli and hear tales of all the history that went on in middle earth while they were away But that’s the optimist in me thinking. On the opposite end I also think of how wild and savage it must of been to breed Uruk hai if they’re a cross breed of orc and man ….like is it a male orc and female person or the opposite way around? Is orc plumbing the same as human anatomy or is it completely alien in comparison like the way a duck has a corkscrew gentleman with ridges Peter Jackson’s won’t answer my emails
Sam : I know. It’s all wrong By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy. How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad happened. But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something. Even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn’t. Because they were holding on to something.
That's even if they made it to the undying lands I mean they have to pass by the sea monsters dragons ghost spirits all kinds of things left over from the sunken continent before they even make it to the undying lands
I know that this is not the way Tolkien intended, but I still prefer the idea of mortals living much longer lives or being close to immortal in the undying lands. My thought process is if wearing something as evil as the ring lengthens your lifespan then something as pure as the undying lands should also; and another thing to keep in mind is that Eru Illuvatar watched the fellowship closely. Perhaps Illuvatar broke a few rules as well after to be sure that all the members would be reunited at one point in time.
This is an answer to a question asked for the wrong reason imo. My interpretation of head canon is that valinor is disconnected from the material world and that its basicly transcending life and death. Im probably wrong but to me it makes more sense than having just another bit of land. 😅
It is indeed disconnected, but only for its “protection”. It used to be as physical a place to Middle Earth as America is to Europe but following Numenor’s invasion, it was removed from the world and only a mystical path to it remains. It definitely used to be a place though!
Its hinted in the appendices that mortals going to the undying lands die faster due to their mortal souls not able to handle he god like beints existing near them. Its why men were not allowed. Because they would die.
Just as saurons ring gives unusual long life, so do undying lands gives propably same or maybe they too got immortality from gods because they destroyed ring.
Misunderstanding the nature of the Undying Lands was the cause of the cataclysmic downfall of Numenor near the end of the Second Age. The king of Numenor thought he could achieve immortality through military conquest of Valinor - instead, he doomed himself and most of his people.
It would be interesting to see a tv show on Legolas and Gimli after the war of the ring just going around killing left over ork tribes and rebuilding kazadom or however you spell it. It would be pretty cool.
Yeah I knew this already, it's one of those very rare instances where I feel 100% certain that Tolkien made the wrong choice. One of the many rewards for the members of the Fellowship should have been immortal life with each other in the undying lands, at least in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I can understand why he wrote it the way he did, I can think of reasons both in-universe, and out. In universe, the "gift of men" and the whole implied afterlife and such was significant, and giving away immortality to 13-14 more people definitely would dampen the impact of the one mortal who was ever granted immortality. Plus only Eru can make one truly immortal I think, and he more or less took a back seat in general but especially after the first age it seems. While out of universe, Tolkien was super biased due to his Catholic faith and therefore to him the afterlife is a superior reward to immortality. I'm personally of the opinion that based on how the undying lands are described, Immortal life there would be hard to beat. If I was Frodo (I couldn't be, I'm so far from him in ideals it's ridiculous, I'd never have been able to be a ring bearer) I'd have wanted immortality as my quest reward. Spend all my time trying to smash sexy elf ladies and smoking the finest of pipeweed.
The undying lands was really the North pole Gandalf became Santa Claus and the hobbits are the reason we think elfs are short.
Dwarves are more crafty, like Santa’s “elves”. Plus they’re Scandinavian, so closer to the North Pole.
@@seed_drill7135 true maybe the elves took some with them 🤔
sooo... they went west to go north?
Israel 😊
CZcams Shorts brain comment
Honestly, this is one of those hard to hear facts. Sad that the fellowship never reunited…
But they got to see the Gods and find bliss in their presence, that's high reward enough.
Until the second music anyways
Merry and Pippen traveled near the end of their lives together, visiting Gondor and Rohan
Almost as said as Luke, Leia and Han not reuniting.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
When i think about that, really the best ending Tolkien could have ever written. It's so exceptional yet makes so much sense after everything Frodo, Sam and Bilbo did. And for Gimli, the fact a dwarf as such an honor, thanks to the permit of Galadriel herself, as well as his friendship with legolas , is one of the biggest messages of hope, unity and friendship Tolkien ever gave us
Beautifully said my friend!!
Remember, the gift given to man was the gift of mortality and the promise of life after death. That was Tolkiens' message.
Except it was never stated or made clear that their was life after for men. Death was just the "gift of illuvitar". So we don't know unfortunately.
@@skillsmachine9164 it was believed that men were to be reunited with Iluvatar for the last song.
@@laborincana4490 Yes, and all the others are not. The ultimate purpose of the Elves is to be a weapon used against Morgoth in the final battle after the fourth age, afterwards they will perish forever. It is actually quite a cruel story, considering it is basically just God experimenting with the world before he finally makes it. The fifth age is strongly implied to be just the bible, as Tolkien was a staunch catholic.
For that reason, I also think the true reason on why Tolkien never revealed the true origin of the orcs is because they are Avari who willfully gave themselves to Morgoth after realizing their intended purpose as Illuvatar's guinea pigs.
@@madness9651No, they will not perish forever. That's just an angsty theory some Elves came up with, when in fact simply nothing has been said about them after the end of Arda Marred. That's why it's a question of faith in Eru, and both the Elves and Men are equal in this - neither kindred knows what happens to them after death (the death of your body with the Men and the death of your world with the Elves. They both have to trust Eru and have faith that Eru has good will towards them and has a good future planned for them.
@@AnnaMarianne Well, we know that the 7th age is the AD times. That means the sixth age is the BC times and the fifth age must be Eden times. No Elves are found anywhere.
i loved legolas’ and gimli’s friendship!!
Tolkien described Legolas and Gimli's friendship as the greatest love ever between an Elf and Dwarf.
Mortality is a gift, as those who truly understand Tolkein's works know.
WRONG
Nope it’s a curse. I would give everything to stop aging and be able to live through next 100~200 years to see humans finally spreading to the space and colonizating, and all the new technology we’ll eventually develop.
@@lukaspeprnik9460 That's 100-200 years. Long term; immortality will become a curse.
@@prot07ype87 says who just look at hob gadling, immortality being a curse is just an overused trope since our memory literally cannot last that long
@@username.exenotfound2943 Irrelevant.
Life is still full of hardships and pain, regardless of our memory. Now multiply experiencing them by infinity and forced to experience them endlessly.
And being trapped in this world forever, without the choice to even die; is a curse.
The one silver lining of Frodo and Legolas never reuniting is that awkward, "I can't remember your name," thing never had to happen....
Frodo and Legolas reunited when Legolas and Gimli went to the undying lands...
@@peterang6912 Even then, it was like at a party when you can't remember someone's name, and then upon hearing someone else say it, you over-use it. "Hello, er, uhm, glad to see you!" Then Manwë says, "Legolas, welcome to Valinor!" Then Frodo's like, "Yes, Legolas, glad to see you again, Legolas, my dear friend Legolas! Let me tell you, sir, if it wasn't for Legolas here, the whole thing would have gone the other way, isn't that right, Legolas?!"
@@billparrish4385 😂😂
Do you actually believe that lol? That was movie version anyway. And it was a look of awe and beauty as if frodo was speechless to see the elf walk in. Peter jackson isnt that dumb.
@@peterang6912it just said in the video that Frodo had passed away decades prior to Legolas going there?
Wise among the elves looked at the mortal humans and hobbits with a keen sense of loss and wonder at the mystery of their passing. Elves will live as long as Arda does, so I'm sure they wonder at, and perhaps sometimes envy, the Gift of Men.
Beautifully said! I have a video on that if you’re interested and haven’t watched it already!!
Okay but imagine Bilbo reuniting with Thorin, Kili, Fili, Balin, and all his other friends who had passed.
But I think they died just the normal way and passed through the hall of Mandos like every other mortal
@@sideeggunnecessary But during Bilbo's brief stay in the Halls of Mandos, just moments before Eru reclaimed his life, he miighht have met the other dwarves. We are told that dwarves are not immortal like Elves, but nor do they die like Men. They stay in the Halls of Mandos, awaiting the day when Aulë Mahal calls them for the Second Music of the Ainur.
@@cuitaro were the halls of Mandos called the timeless halls? Perhaps it was like no time had passed at all when the group was all reunited
@@sideeggunnecessary No, the Timeless Halls are outside the universe, where Eru Ilúvatar dwells.
I thought the dwarves resided with Aule the Smith at his residence in the mountains when they passed in Middle Earth.
Often when people go to war, they never really come back. I'm sure Tolkien saw this happen to many he once knew.
What do you know about war... Don't talk about something you didn't experience.
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849 He is right, and yes many whose bodies come back their minds and souls are haunted forever. It has taken many years of counseling and the wounds still ache, some pains never go away.
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849Tolkien was in the First World War…which is why he knows what war is actually like.
With exception that Frodo, Bilbo and Sam were bearers of the One Ring which stretch their life and perhaps make them almost immortal or something alike. This specify why Sam made the journey after his beloved died of old age. So it was very possible that Gimili and Legolas meet all three of them.
dude, as soon as you're not the ringbearer anymore, you age like normal-ish again.
Aiging - yes, like normal - no@@hazardeur
@@hazardeurexplain gollum then lol
id say gollum is kinda special cause he had the ring for such a long time.
Bilbo was not living much longer after sailing there, and Sam didn't have the ring long enough. Frodo had it for fifty, some-odd years, so it could be possible he lived longer, but definitely not long enough.
That's not necessarily true dwarves go to the hallowed Halls when they die which means that they will come back at the end of the world according to Tolkien so Gimli will reunite with Legolas when the world ends
So will men. They all come together in the end. But their fates aren't together. Though the fate of Hobbits is never explained.
@@Josh-iv2bwhobbits are an offshoot of the race of men
For the first couple of seconds I thought it was Pippin speaking.
I legit thought that it was like heaven and would make them live forever
But I have just started reading the books so I eas basing it on the movies
someone who actually understands how the undying lands work
Well Frodo went to heal his wounds but in turn he would live a shorter life as his body and spirit wasn't designed for Valinor like the Eldar were.
They don’t live shorter lives physically, their perception of time is dulled due to the changeless nature of Valinor so it feels short lived
When you read his thoughts on that concept that mortals in Valinor would perceive time so drastically different it would drive them insane. Also Frodo and Bilbo went to Tol Eressea, which is a part of Aman but not fully, it's still middle earth too. So those effects might be lessened. It'd be messed up if Frodo went there to heal and the whole time he was disoriented and panicked for decades...
They do indeed live shorter lives in Aman, in the same way that if you turn up the voltage your light bulb will burn brighter but also burn out faster.
Now I'm crying thinking that the fellowship never reunited and Legolas had to endure Gimli's death...
In Return of the King, Treebeard tells Celeborn and Galadriel that he is sad he will not see them again. Galadriel, who has the gift of foresight, says:
"Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!"
She is saying the world will someday be remade and they may meet again in the Spring of that new world. I like to think that this means ALL the characters eventually do get reunited someday.
@@katherinegraham3803 SPOILER ALERT!!!
(yes, yes they do)
The books are full of magic and miracles. Believe what you want.
The books are full of Tolkien, and this is what Tolkien intended. Not changing the nature of one’s soul and fate was a core belief within the legendarium.
We often attribute Lord of the Rings to Tolkien, but Tolkien was only the surviving part of this legacy produced by himself, Geoffrey B. Smith, Christopher Wiseman and Rob Gilson, before they all died in the first world war, leaving Tolkien with this "bundle of notes", that he later compiled into several books. The way Bilbo leaves his book to Frodo and they both go to the undying lands in the end, reminds me about the way Tolkien's friends departed from this life and how he later joined them. The story fells real because all the feelings involving Tolkien's life and true friendship were so strong.
beautifully said
Such a brutal, nearly pointless war. It is heartwarming that some good came from it.
Frodo certainly would have lived longer than Sam because he possessed the ring for longer. Bilbo and Frodo both by having the ring for so long were basically given immortality while they had the ring. I'm also thinking being near Valinor it would have extended their life as well. They also wouldn't have been able to pass the mountains
I like to think the undying lands would significantly extend the life of a mortal (not in an unnatural way) because it's uncorrupted and inhabited by gods/immortals but I've heard that it actually shortened their lifespan because it was never meant for mortals thus wearing them out.
Still my head canon is that it naturally and healthily extends life.
My thinking too
Except that Tolkien explicitely said in a letter that it is the other way round: mortals do live less in Aman. Sorry to let you know...
@@Sletty73 hmmmm he said they could stay for a limited time and it could be a long or short time and they would pass when they chose to.
"Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as time wears even the Powers shall envy."
Tolkien says i Aman (Morgoths ring) that even mortals don't age in Aman.
So... This is wrong.
I don't know why, but this brings tears to my eyes
Talk about a hard pill to swallow 🥲🥲
Lalallalalalaaaa let me have my fantasy of them all living in a dorm together lalalalalalallaaaaaaaaa
If you take the case of Numenor, while the line of King had elven blood, the rest did not, yet they still had longer life and health, only because in sight of the undying land's light.
There is a good case for life to be extended, just not infinitely.
"Simply not in the habit of dying" 😆
The Undying Lands don't grant immortality, but even being in proximity can dramatically lengthen your life. Case in point: Numenorians. They only gained their various gifts (long life, size and strength, etc.) once they settled in Numenor, and began to wane once they returned to Middle Earth.
The undying lands shorten the lifespan of mortals
Sad to hear that... sound so realistic... nothing really end perfekt
Being in the undying lands however makes them live longer than usual lifespams though and Hobbits live a bit longer than normal humans. So its perfectly possible than when Gimli travelled there the Hobbits were still alive.
Most likely at least Sam. He was quite young in the lotr in hobbit terms.
Mortals live shorter in valinor
He died in peace, good times
There's at least one elf who hates doing dishes forever and either becomes an evil overlord or just smashes the plates and makes new ones every day to pass the time.
Gimli, the first and only dwarf to enter the undying lands. 😢
No, when you go there, you live forever. There was a host of men who sailed there and were caught in a collapsed cavern who will be trapped there forever because they can't die. If I recall correctly.
Yeah, some feller named Ar-Pharazôn
When Pharazon the Golden, a human, stepped foot on the undying lands to make war on the Powers, he, along with some of his troops, ended up trapped in a cave under the ground. In the books it says they will remain alive until the breaking of the world due to the nature of the undying lands.
I thought that Sam went back to the Shire and had a family...
He went to Valinor after his wife’s death many years later!
He did.
This does make more sense why the elves were favored by the divinity in Tolkien’s universe. Since they would have to endure the heartache eternally of losing so many of their friends and loved ones knowing they where to never meet again.
Oh my gosh, Frodo is so cute.
In a way it’s more sad for the Elves because they have to witness all their friends pass away while they themselves have to linger on.
No, they were allowed to pass away when they were READY!
Or they wre blessed with eternal youth❤
I cannot agree with that. They partied for eternity and before the heat death of the Universe Gimly finally beat up Legolas in drinking.
The end of LOTR really is sad, look at Arwen and Aragorn, Aragorn eventually dies of old age, and Arwen is so heartbroken that she almost just fades away, her son takes over the throne and rules steadily (presumed) but Elronds prediction became true, Arwen was heartbroken in her remaining years until she almost did a ''lost the will to live'' and simply passed away.
This is based on literally nothing but my own wishful thinking but:
I believe that while mortals are still so,
even if they go to Valinor, the amount of "goodness", power, metaphysical beauty and just the very magical nature of the West can at least extend the life of mortals greatly.
Similar to how the Ring preserved Bilbo and Smeagol, except, instead of consuming them from the inside out, being in Valinor brings one inner peace, vitality, empowerment, health, joy and calm.
Similar to what the Fellowship experienced in Rivendel or Lothlórien, but much MUCH greater.
So, while I do agree that Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli eventually passed away peacefully and ready to face death without fear or sadness, I do think that they all lived far FAR beyond their expected years and well into the Age of Man.
Similar to how Gollum lived for centuries, and probably could have still lived much longer had the One not left him.
This is my own thought as well. The food, drink, and medicine of the Undying Lands would be far superior to that of Middle-Earth, and the Valar are there to influence things as well - - I think it's likely that the mortal members of the Fellowship (and Bilbo) enjoyed perfect health and freedom from disease, and might even have led to them growing more youthful-looking. Possibly, like the ancient Numenoreans and Aragorn in Middle-Earth, they might even have been given the gift of departing at will.
Sorry to say that while Bilbo and Frodo found healing from the injury of their long years bearing the one Ring, according to at least one letter from JRRT, the power of the blessed realm may have actually sped up their eventual end. They are mortal and are meant for a destiny separate from that of the Firstborn, who are intended to live on Arda for as long as Arda exists.
But I don't think it'd be hard to make that decision - live in pain for long years in ME, or live for a shorter while in what amounts to Heaven on Earth, even if it means you'd have to face your death earlier, at least you would do it at peace and in bliss.
While @garmisra7841 is true, we must remember the reason Aman is called the Blessed Land. It is free from the corruption of Melkor, and as such, Death itself will not hurt, pain or grieve as much as it does on Middle-earth.
While it is most likely that the ring bearers and gimli indeed died, as is the fate of the second born, it is not impossible that they, like Tuor, could have been granted immortality. Also, I'm under the impression that only Legolas actually went further west than Tol Eressëa
It’s definitely a very interesting topic and what i love about lotr is the mystery sometimes. Thanks for the comment!!
It's not a fact that Tuor gained immortality. It was a myth of the Noldor in Middle Earth.
@@jlm990 interesting. In the Silmarillionit says he becomes immortal. Do you remember your source for this?
@@jmad318 The Silmarillion doesn't say he became immortal, only that it later became legend that he did:
"...and with Idril Celebrindal he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song. But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men."
@@jlm990 that seems like a distinction without a difference
And here we are... sad about the destiny of fictional characters... and it really hurts in a strange way.
well at least they could pay respects to their graves
Heartbreaking, but they had some great times
Bilbo's life was extended by being a bearer of the rings, so Frodo may also have had an unusually long life for a hobbit. It is possible thaf by the time Sam went, having borne the ring temporarily, Frodo was still alive and they could have reunited. As foe Legolas and Gimli, who knows if Frodo was that long lived since he was still under the illness attributed to Shelob's poison.
So sad but so beautiful
The thing is that they would have not settled on the mainland of Valinor. They would have remained on the isle of Tol Eressa where they would have died.
100% correct. In fact, it's quite possible that Bilbo didn't even survive the trip across the ocean.
That's only the another name of. Heaven
First time i watching that scene on movie, i have realize this.
Although the Valar might have extended their lives a bit, as that was within their power. One hopes that Galadriel arranged for Gimli to meet Aule while he was there.
Except Tuor . It was because Lord Namo was so scared of lady Idril' anger that he decided to leave them alone and rule in peace. Well , in relative peace.I wonder how many times Feanoro and his sons tried to sneak out from the Halls.😅
thanks.. i never knew that about the undying lands...
It says in the Silmarillion in the Akallabeth, "For it is not the land of
Manwe that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have
hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner,
as moths in a light too strong and steadfast." so they would likely die sooner but it is true they would live longer because of the One Ring. So who knows how long they would have lived in the end. The point of going there was to be at peace in the blissful land until their time came.
And you know what's even more heartbreaking, Gimli would have gone back to the rock as all dwarfs do. Let's change it, gigli was given the privilege of man upon death and sat with eru in the afterlife drinking from curved horns.
It is possible that those tht wnet tot he Undyinglands would be able to reunite as thelife spans would have been greatly increased without the burdens and corruption of Middle Earth which normally brings death eventually. They would live as long as it was possible for their race to live, in peace, and without any kind of deterioration, are illness. Bilbo already having had his life extended may not have lived too many years longer but Frodo could easily ave lived to be 150, or more. Frodo went tot he Undying lands at the age of 134, I think and Frodo was only 53. He could have lived another 100 years in the Undying Lands, only dying long after Gimli and Legolas arrived only 50 years later.
you mean Bilbo was 134...
Mortals dont live longer in valinor
“They’re not in the habit of dying” 😂
From what I understand their lives were extended by going to the Undying Lands.
I like to think it's a beautiful land that is unchanging
I thought they were excepted because their lives were stretched out by the ring, except for Gimli
Imagine Gimlis reaction when he saw the graves of Frodo, Sam and also Bilbo.
I think the dyingland is a land that hasnt had any corruption from morgoth or sauron or anyone evil. Ita basically like heavin for the elves
They reunited when Frodo recovered at Rivendell after destroying the ring and at Aragorn’s coronation doe
We only see Gandalf, Bilbo, and Frodo sail west though. Where does this revelation that Legolas, Gimli and Sam went there too comes from?
Even more, we know from the appendix about Arwen and Aragorn that after his death, Arwen wanted to leave Middle Earth, but there was no ship to take her across such seas, so she ended up choosing a hill on Lothlorien as a final resting place...
It was in the appendix. Gimli and Legolas made their own ship. I'm not sure who Sam sailed with, maybe Cirdan or Celeborn.
I'm pretty sure that they said it in one of the books that it indeed makes them undying.
Frodo HAD to go to the Undying Lands because though Elrond "healed" Frodo after the morghul blade stabbing, the deadly poisonous blade tip stays embedded, slowly traveling to the heart where it kills the victim.
Frodo was not "cured."
Dang that hurt. I didnt need to hear this one.
I always thought that was the point of the scene, that it was representative of them dying and passing over to the other side
I choose to believe they did get to reunite one last time before passing on
What’s the point of going to the undying lands if you’re gonna die anyway ?
Why did sam leave tho ☹️, like frodo was changed by the ring and his life wasn't the same and needed spiritual healing. That's one of the messages of the books, frodo survives the journey but he sacrifices his humanity and becomes broken and unable to recover. But on the other side Sam had much more hope and always wanted to go back and had a family, Sam survived, psysically and spiritually, why did he go then?
Bravo, hermoso texto
im new to the fandom, so sorry if this is a silly question! but does the lotr universe have a heaven of sorts where characters go after they pass?
wouldn't the undying lands be completely overcrowded with elves if the old ones don't make space for the newborns?
I get the feeling the elves were just slightly favored 😂
If i was ever reborn in a fantasy land im definitely picking elves.
I like to think that because both Frodo and Sam were ring bearers that their life was extended and that they did survive to meet their old friend Gimli and hear tales of all the history that went on in middle earth while they were away
But that’s the optimist in me thinking. On the opposite end I also think of how wild and savage it must of been to breed Uruk hai if they’re a cross breed of orc and man ….like is it a male orc and female person or the opposite way around?
Is orc plumbing the same as human anatomy or is it completely alien in comparison like the way a duck has a corkscrew gentleman with ridges
Peter Jackson’s won’t answer my emails
Sam : I know.
It’s all wrong
By rights we shouldn’t even be here.
But we are.
It’s like in the great stories Mr. Frodo.
The ones that really mattered.
Full of darkness and danger they were,
and sometimes you didn’t want to know the end.
Because how could the end be happy.
How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad happened.
But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow.
Even darkness must pass.
A new day will come.
And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer.
Those were the stories that stayed with you.
That meant something.
Even if you were too small to understand why.
But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand.
I know now.
Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back only they didn’t.
Because they were holding on to something.
They may have lived longer than normal given where they were but I suspect they all died eventually
I thought Frodo did return, but for only a little while.
Death is not the end.
Awww now I'm sad because they didn't reunite😢
That's even if they made it to the undying lands I mean they have to pass by the sea monsters dragons ghost spirits all kinds of things left over from the sunken continent before they even make it to the undying lands
I know that this is not the way Tolkien intended, but I still prefer the idea of mortals living much longer lives or being close to immortal in the undying lands. My thought process is if wearing something as evil as the ring lengthens your lifespan then something as pure as the undying lands should also; and another thing to keep in mind is that Eru Illuvatar watched the fellowship closely. Perhaps Illuvatar broke a few rules as well after to be sure that all the members would be reunited at one point in time.
This is an answer to a question asked for the wrong reason imo.
My interpretation of head canon is that valinor is disconnected from the material world and that its basicly transcending life and death.
Im probably wrong but to me it makes more sense than having just another bit of land. 😅
It is indeed disconnected, but only for its “protection”. It used to be as physical a place to Middle Earth as America is to Europe but following Numenor’s invasion, it was removed from the world and only a mystical path to it remains. It definitely used to be a place though!
@@InkandFantasy Yes, back when the world was flat :D
Its hinted in the appendices that mortals going to the undying lands die faster due to their mortal souls not able to handle he god like beints existing near them.
Its why men were not allowed. Because they would die.
In the end friends find each other no matter what leagolas will never know but he knows his friends are in a better places the curse of being an elf
The undying lands were in a sense the afterlive for elves since the elves did not pass on to the afterlife like men did.
😢 Maybe all of the fellowship were reunited for a time in The Halls of Mandos.
I would be pissed if I had to wait in the Halls just because others are late
@@Frankje01 😆👍⭐
No they would not, only elves are there
If it makes you feel any better, everyone will be reunited some day when the world is remade again.
@@arderon5 and dwarves..
Just as saurons ring gives unusual long life, so do undying lands gives propably same or maybe they too got immortality from gods because they destroyed ring.
Misunderstanding the nature of the Undying Lands was the cause of the cataclysmic downfall of Numenor near the end of the Second Age. The king of Numenor thought he could achieve immortality through military conquest of Valinor - instead, he doomed himself and most of his people.
They would meet again during the Last Battle, in my mind
Gimli and Legolas would have reunited with Frodo because Hobbits were longer lived than today's humans often living past 100
it must be painful to live an immortal life 😢
Where is it written that Frodo died in the Undying lands?
It would be interesting to see a tv show on Legolas and Gimli after the war of the ring just going around killing left over ork tribes and rebuilding kazadom or however you spell it. It would be pretty cool.
Yeah I knew this already, it's one of those very rare instances where I feel 100% certain that Tolkien made the wrong choice. One of the many rewards for the members of the Fellowship should have been immortal life with each other in the undying lands, at least in my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I can understand why he wrote it the way he did, I can think of reasons both in-universe, and out. In universe, the "gift of men" and the whole implied afterlife and such was significant, and giving away immortality to 13-14 more people definitely would dampen the impact of the one mortal who was ever granted immortality. Plus only Eru can make one truly immortal I think, and he more or less took a back seat in general but especially after the first age it seems. While out of universe, Tolkien was super biased due to his Catholic faith and therefore to him the afterlife is a superior reward to immortality.
I'm personally of the opinion that based on how the undying lands are described, Immortal life there would be hard to beat. If I was Frodo (I couldn't be, I'm so far from him in ideals it's ridiculous, I'd never have been able to be a ring bearer) I'd have wanted immortality as my quest reward. Spend all my time trying to smash sexy elf ladies and smoking the finest of pipeweed.
I think you're wrong. Anyone that arrived the undying lands lived eternally.