How Good Is ZWO's AM5 Harmonic Drive Mount?
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- UPDATE: ZWO has released a fix for the ASCOM issue on this mount.
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I spent two days with a ZWO AM5, these are my initial impressions including some limited time under the stars with guiding, periodic error and backlash performance. A huge thank you to Stars & Stuff for loaning me this mount, comment below if you'd like to see more of it or comparisons with the AM5 and other gear.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:05 Build and aesthetics
2:41 Setting up the AM5
4:21 Brake & back driving
5:28 Hand controller
6:24 Mobile app & control
7:13 ASIAIR control
7:23 Windows / desktop control
9:00 Tracking & periodic error
10:32 Backlash
10:57 Guiding performance
12:33 Imaging results
13:47 Conclusions
14:53 This mount is not for you if...
15:32 Thank you
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The ASCOM driver issue will be fixed very soon. We are sorry about that.
Thanks for confirming this!
@@AstroWithRoRo Seems to be fixed! ASCOM driver version 6.5.6 as of June, 24th points to the solution
There are always bugs in first-release software you can't test everything on every configuration. Thanks for the update.
@@martinheitkamper1070 is it? did you use and check it?
I was ready to pull the trigger on this mount until hearing about this issue with non-compatibility with multiple programs at once. Major deal breaker for me. If I can't run it with Stellarium, NINA and PHD2 it's a no go.
Thanks for a very informative video. Helped me make up my mind to wait to see how the offering of harmonic drive mounts develops over the next half year or so. Cheers, Des
That’s a great review!! My AM5 already ordered, together with ASI AIR Plus. So I guess it’ll be a good match 😃
Your dog looks like he's counting down the days until you have to ship the mount and attention will come back to him! Excellent review; really covered everything!
Interesting, knowledgeable, and honest review. Would like to see more down to earth results with this mount. Thank you.
Thank you, definitely more to come when the weather clears back up!
I've been waiting for this review for a long time! Very clear and honest as always.
Much appreciated!
Thanks for a very well presented initial review! I hope you can get it back for a more thorough look on solid ground under dark skies. ZWO has been good with continual updates for their ASI Air Pro and Plus series. I think we can assume they will do the same with the AM5. As for myself, while desperate to move on from my IOptron 25, I think I will wait and see on this one....
Since I have an ZWO ASIAIR PLUS, most of your issues don’t matter to me. Since my back surgery, I have to have a mount that is light weight and this mount fills this need. Thanks for your video. It still confirms my purchase.
Harmonic mounts are fantastic for the weight reduction & power they offer. The best gear is the gear you use and I think this mount falls into that category nicely!
@@AstroWithRoRo Yes, I agree! Thanks!
Excellent review!
YES I would like to see everything on this mount and the others with Harmonic motors.
Great review. I am interested in future reviews of this mount and others. I have been holding off on ordering the AM5 because I do not like platforms that lock users into their products. Hopefully ZWO will make good on the ASCOM promise soon.
Very good review.
I think that ASCOM driver is a must in any astro gear. Also, the periodic error seems high compared to other options in the market.
On the other hand, is very good to see there’s competition as well as development of new products
Thanks for the great review. I haven't started any astro photography as yet as I am still working which way to go as I don't have a decent SLR camera, only a Olympus EPL3. Anyway, whichever way I go it will be a steep learning curve. I was thinking of one of the Skywatcher mounts but your review and other peoples reviews on the ZWO AM5, for me, is the way to go.
Very Detailed thank you very much.
hes back!
Yeah seems to be angled toward using ASIAIR and their ASI cameras, and with that, its a joy to use.
Azimuth locking levers can be moved after locking. Just lift them up (they are spring loaded) and move them to the side for a flush fit.
Do You know how to set them back in originally position? I lifted them up but the right "wingnut" when locked, is now hooking az adjustment knob.
Roro, Thank you for such comprehensive review with all these details that are very important!
Any plans to review the Pegasus NYX-101 mount in near future?
It promises to be a very hot product.
Thank you!
I do hope to test out the NYX-101 as soon as I can!
Excellent vidéo. Would love to see you putting you’d Hans onto the Ioptron equivalent, as well as the new Pegasus model
Very interesting, thanks for covering this! The ASCOM driver issue is a complete non-starter for lazy geeks using automated setups, so here's hoping it gets fixed soon.
Completely agreed!
One of the mount testers said on Facebook it's already got a new driver in testing to fix the issue.
Thanks for doing this honest review. I am for sure interested to see a shoot out between the RST 135 and the AM5 if you can get the mount again (RST135e may be a bit unfair due to encoder and price bracket difference). For me, the appeal of the AM5 is portability when travelling for scope heavier than the recommended payload of a sky adventurer.
Regarding the ASCOM issue, there are some comments floating on the ZWO facebook forum that the fix is currently being tested and should be released soon. A bit of an embarrassing mistake, but considering its price I'm sure ZWO want to sell you that mount even if you use ASCOM :) .
We're aiming to set up a side by side comparison of the two in the coming weeks weather permitting. The low weight & size of the harmonic mounts makes me enjoy astrophotography much more and for that alone I think they are worth the extra price they carry.
anxiously waiting for an update.
You can reposition the azimuth locks into any orientation just by lifting them up and turning them and reseating them. They do not have to stick out.
Hi, nice review :) I just have one question since you now have AM5 and the Innorel 90C tripod. Are they compatible? Specifically, I would like to know whether the silver mounting plate from AM5 fits into the Innorel tripod, as well as whether the Innorel mounting plate fits to ZWO tripod. By size they should, but the profile / side groove seems different. I am interested in buying the ZWO PE160 pier extension for my current rig with the Innorel tripod. But I am afraid they are incompatible. Thanks for help.
Thanks for the review!!
I wonder how different is the iOptron version (just saw on Ali ) don't know if they're out tho
Have you tried Device HUB? I have used this before to get multiple software talking to the mount at once.
I don't own a telescope nor did I even understand that this was a telescope mount until about 5 minutes in. But I did enjoy the video
Do you think the ZWO AM5 app will be sufficient for visual in alt az mode? This is just so I can get started with the mount.
My personal assessment is that harmonic drive motor mounts are going to be produced by many suppliers over this year and next. Pegasus is coming out with one, and Celestron and skywatcher are working on models based on HDM. The AM5 IMO is more of a proof of concept rather than something that’s built for daily use. I think it’s a great first iteration but I would not want to be owning version one of this new type of technology. It is definitely a technology that I would want to own; but not necessarily the ZWO AM5. Nice video !
Completely agree. I am very excited to see how this segment progresses over the next 1-3 years. I think there will be a lot of improvement in the features & capabilities of these small but mighty instruments, and can't wait for all the competition!
It's interesting that the tech has been around for many decades, but has only just now made it's way into astronomy. Not sure why that is. Probably cost.
If the NINA and PHD2 issues aren't resolved it's a 'deal breaker'. This extended functionality should have been included before product release.
As always if there's anything I've missed or is incorrect, please leave a comment here so I can pin it and ensure it's seen. I will update this comment upon more news about the software fix from ZWO.
Have you tried using the hub built into ASCOM. There are hubs in which you connect the hub to the telescope, focuser, and observatory which then allows you to connect multiple programs to those device such as PHD2, N.I.NA, planetariums, etc. I find this as good practice as it usually prevents a program from doing a dirty handoff to the driver and locking another program out of your mount or focuser driver.
6:07 I have an Avalon Linear mount which, like the AM5, is dumb as a box of rocks without an external device. On its own it can slew, it can track - and absolutely nothing else. I do however consider this a benefit for several reasons:
1. You're not limited to the mounts internal control system, you can use a PC, ASIair, or whatever.
2. Because of #1, you can always upgrade the mount.
3. Since the mount has no "brains" of its own it's also less expensive.
4. There's no risk of what I call "dueling controllers", for example when the mounts PEC starts interfering with guiding commands from the external device. The mount will do what the external device tells it to do, period.
Sometimes simplicity is just the best solution.
4:17 The levers is spring loaded. So after tightening, just lift the lever and place them flat against the mount to avoid cable snags.
What about trying it with the ASCOM Device Hub. That should allow multiple programs to connect to the mount at the same time, if they connect through the hub
Is the non multiple softwarw use still relevant? Ive been saving up for this mount but wont be getting it if this is not fixed.
Should i buy the eq6-R or wait for this??
How to take flats with a white t-shirt light on the top method? should we change to alt-azimuth mode?
Mine is probably still in the factory. It's an endless pain of waiting. At least July is rainy season in my country.
All the reviews of this mount seem to be mostly “unboxing”. It would be nice to see a review of a used AM5. Does your friend still have it? If so, what does he think?
Can this installed to a Manfrotto Video Tripod?
7:24 ASCOM users watch this, thanks RoRo. has this been resolved?
Where did you order it from? I did pre-order it at Testar and so far no news - probably July? Frustrating
Hi just ordered the am5 but am having second thoughts on whether it will suit my needs. I am a beginner and am starting of with a askar fra400 72mm. However I plan to use a askar fra600 108mm in the future. Will this mount be suitable for imaging at this focal length? I don’t plan to use anything higher for this mount. And I need portability which is part of the reason I went with am5
Hi Michael. I thought I'd jump in here & mention that there are a number of reviews of the AM5 appearing on YT & elsewhere. Some of them are in Spanish & languages other tha English, but they all allow CCs & auto-translate. From these reviews, it appears that (a) the mount would have no problem whatsoever with the weight of the FRA600, Camera, Filter Wheel, Guide Camera, etc., and (b) most users are finding that, with frequent guiding exposures/corrections (around 1 correction per second) that the AM5 will track well enough at moderate focal lengths. However, YMMV, and it is predicated on being able to make frequent guiding corrections. If you use an off-axis guider with a small prism & small sensor, you may or may not be able to find guide stars bright enough for 1 second exposures. Perhaps the ZWO 290 guider camera would be a better choice than the 120. That's all I can share, but I will reiterate that you should check out as many reviews as possible & look on the Cloudy Nights Forum for feedback regarding imaging at 600mm. I hope this helps. Best of luck! :)
Just an update. Anyone looking at getting the Am5 should get it. I’m so happy with it and am glad I didn’t change my mind. My advise is check out the reviews of people who have used them. Plenty of info out there now. I’m only speaking from a beginner point of view but it’s just so easy to use straight out of the box. Couldn’t be happier
I like to image without guiding. Does anyone know how this mount performs with exposures in the 1 minute range unguided? (Assuming a focal length of
The PE on this mount is too large for go unguided unfortunately. You would need to look into a harmonic mount with an encoder like the RST-135E or maybe HEM27 EC.
@@AstroWithRoRo Thanks for your reply. It's like I totally misunderstood the whole harmonic mount thing - I *thought* one of the big selling points of these mounts, as well no counterweights needed, was that they were very accurate in their guiding straight out of the box. Thanks for the clarification.
How well does it work with N.I.N.A. now?
How good is the mount if you comper it with the iOptron HEM 27 mount?
Unfortunately I have not been able to get my hands on that mount so can't comment. I have reached out to iOptron about it but am waiting to hear back.
Hi I know this video is a year old so just wondering if you have found the issues you hoped ZWO would work on regarding PEC have been rectified as of late?
I don’t believe there is any PEC available for most harmonic mounts. The PE can often change depending on weight, side of pier, etc so predicting it can be difficult. I don’t own the AM5 myself but have many friends who do and all have said the current firmware has resolved most issues and they are working very well! Just keep the guide exposures short and frequent. 😊
Sorry I did mean to write PE not PEC! That’s great to hear thank you. I have on order so looking forward to trying it out. Thanks and keep up the great videos!
Is It right that it's not possible to attach a polemaster? The sharpstar mount has this feature
I did not see any attachment point for a polemaster.
You can attach a Polemaster either on the dovetail of you scope or on the Vixen finder shoe on the side of the mount.
I thought the same.....no place to put my ipolar. If you look closely, somebody put velcro where the polar alignment should be, probably to stick there. That is unacceptable to me. 5:13
what if it was cloudy for the 2 days ?
At the moment, it's an interesting and flashy device, but I don't think it's going to give me any improvement over a standard, tried-and-true mount like the Skywatcher EQ6-R. It is lighter, but its performance and limitations do not seem attractive to me to change to this product that requires more improvements and software and mechanical updates. ZWO keeps innovating, let's hope they refine the design and then we'll see if we spend our money on it. For now I'll just watch.
My old homemade mount with Byers Drive from 1998 gives me a periodic P-P error of 5.2" of arc (240s worm period). It is now 100% GOTO, so it is very difficult to change for this ZWO mount at the moment .
Nobody will give me an answer on whether the am5 is capable of imaging at 600mm focal length anyone have an option on this?
Not to sound harsh or anything, but am5 is literally the inferior choice in China rn. There’s this new mount called UMi harmonic mount and it delivers a much better guiding performance with less money, like 700 bucks cheaper. :) anyway great vid!
I get rounder stars on my Redcat with Az-Gti
But can your AZ-Gti hold a C11 :-)
@@gazza9839 It gives round(ish) stars to whatever it can hold however. What good is C11 on AM5 if you get worms instead of points?
I have AM5 on pre-order btw. But hype meter is no longer at 11 for me.
on Windows, use POTH or Ascom Hub to have multiple connections. I have the same issue with iexos-100: fantastic mechanics but crappy software/drivers
Unfortunately there were issues with inconsistent/failed commands through the hub making centring on plate solves difficult.
@@AstroWithRoRo yes, ascom platform ia a joke by comparison with INDI. But i have to say that Ascom POTH is the best hub on windows. Ascom POTH is old, with crappy interface but works perfectly. Is included in ascom platform but unchecked on install. Give it a try.
It’s been a year. How is it now?
I believe the issues are now all fixed, but I don’t own this mount to test and confirm. This review was with a borrowed one from a friend.
The windows driver issue would pretty much make it unusable to me, that has to get fixed.
As a long time ASIair user, I feel this review is unfair not having been done in conjunction with an ASIair which the AM5 was first and foremost obviously designed to be used with. The entire purpose of this mount is to work directly with the ASIair which completely eliminates the need for a computer with a multitude of various software, additional power sources and a required learning curve which is anything but intuitive - much less as easily portable. The best comparison I can make is the current collection of ASCOM software is about as easy to use and intuitive as the early PC software before windows - then the Macintosh came out and the world of PC computing finally became user friendly with the result being that more people became involved and the market exploded with new and better products. ZWO with the ASIair and the AM5 are becoming the "Macintosh" of astrophotography bringing simple easy to use products to a vast majority of people who might otherwise never bothered to get into the hobby.
I have no issue with the ASIAIR, and I agree that we should be praising companies that lower the bar of entry into this hobby. However I think it is worrying that ZWO planned to not even support ASCOM on this mount initially. Walled gardens are bad for consumers and ZWO has benefited from using open source software & standards themselves for a long time. So I think it only fair that we should hold them to providing support back to the whole community through those same standards. We should always be demanding more from companies so that all customers can benefit from better products & increased competition.
I definitely see your point but it's on ZWO to make this mount compatible with the asiair only. If you tell me I will be able to use ASCOM, as ZWO has been claiming for a long time, I expect a fully functional mount by the time it gets delivered to my door.
@@gl2796 A journey starts with the first step, NOT arriving at your destination. This is a new product that isn't even released to the general public yet and from what I've read, ZWO has never claimed that the AM5 was going to be released with full ASCOM capability. On the contrary their entire development process has been geared to complete compatibility with the ASIair which by the way is on it's 3rd improved iteration in less than 4 years. They are constantly improving their software and they have been providing nearly monthly updates to the public beta. Give them a little time and I think we will continue to see a lot of good changes ahead.
@@ronhunt2477 I think these critics will only make them build better products. They did say on their website that the mount was going to be fully compatible with ASCOM to be honest with you and so far they haven't really succeeded but I'm sure they'll fix that in the future. I'm personally going to wait before I buy this mount. There are a few competitors that will come out with other options and being patient pays off in the long run :)
Lifting (stealing?) the best ideas from decades of work of people working unselfishly on complex open source utilities available to everybody, and then locking out users from their 'ecosystem' creating incompatible interfaces unless you buy (only) their products, really smells of Apple tactics - therefore no AsiAir or AM5 for me - ever!
Just 1" RMS? I hope at least 0.7" as normal value.
Simple solution but aa+
There could very well be backlash. ZWO is Chinese so you can bet money that is a Chinese made strain wave gear and not a name brand Harmonic Drive made in Japan.
ASCOM issue is a no go for me. The guiding performance honestly is not good enough considering the type and cost of mount.
There are reviews of this mount by Astro Blender and Peter Zelinka that are much more comprehensive and I recommend that people watch those in preference to this review.
The AM5 is going to be primarily bought by people who do at least some imaging with ASI cameras and manage their observing and imaging with the ASIAIR. It’s probably not a good choice if you just want to do visual observations. Mounts like the AZ-GTI or AVX and many others would be much better for such users, and much less expensive.
Reviewing this mount without showing its use with the ASIAIR leaves out most of the point of why the mount was developed in the first place.
If you are serious about reviewing equipment I suggest you get access to it for a decent period of time and show it in the full context of its capabilities.
Not a ZWO fan. Their ASIAIR forces you to use mostly ZWO accessories, their oily sensor issue, and their low quality control has put a sour taste in my mouth. I try to avoid them for future purchases.
Is it made in China?
Damning with faint praise….
Really it is a very solid and I think well performing mount, however it is overshadowed by the fact ZWO has tried to pressure buyers into the ASIAIR & ZWO walled garden.
@@AstroWithRoRo as I said….
Interesting, as your guiding is the worst reported of any of the users who have so far purchased and received the mount. Have you tried the Rainbow mount in the same location? The PC and Ascom limitation is embarrassing. One suspects that ZWO is simply to wedded to their own products ( AsiAir line). That's simply dumb and reeks of Apple cultishness!
Yes, guide numbers from my apartment are always worse than what other report. You can probably knock 0.2" - 0.3" off the results to better match a normal location. Stars & Stuff has been receiving guide results around 0.6" - 0.7" when he uses it. I will be posting results from the RST soon too (both from this location and others). Couldn't agree more with the ASCOM issues.
PЯӨMӨƧM 👊
Cool, but WAAAAAAAY overpriced at $2600 CAD! I can get a far nicer GOTO mount for that same price!
Shame - shame - That dog is clearly over worked.
--- Smile
Happy dogs sleep.