Siskel & Ebert - Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986)
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- čas přidán 21. 09. 2013
- I love the way these two great guys sum up in their 1986 review here The Original Crew's chemistry and how George Lucas or Steven Spielberg would have ruined it, kind of like what JJ Abrams did with Star Trek 2009, but most especially 2013's Into Darkness, then also Star Wars: The Farce Awakens in 2015!
I know most people say Wrath of Khan is the best Star Trek movie. It is really good but to me hands down The Voyage Home is the best movie. Just so heartwarming and endearing, one of my favorite movies of all time. Spock on the bus taking care of the punk kid was just pure gold.
I wouldn't say it's the best film of the series but it's by far the most fun.
Have you seen the follow up scene with the same punk (Kirk Thatcher) in Star Trek: Picard? Seven of Nine asks him to turn down the music and he does it immediately and gets all apologetic and humble, like he learned his lesson the first time.
Mine too. It's full of hope and kindness, and is funny as heck.
Saw it at the Cheri Cinema in Murray Kentucky, Christmas 1986, opening week. I am from Louisville but we were down visiting grandmother. Asked my parents if they'd let me treat them with my Christmas money and go see it with me, and mom and dad were all about it. Damned good movie too. The Trekkies showed up from Paducah at the theater in Murray, in uniforms, and gave everyone Starfleet stamped business cards with the name of their local Trekkie group on it, and the Starfleet logo too, all nicely printed.
The film is dedicated to the memory of the seven astronauts who died in that same year's Challenger space shuttle accident, and we in the audience, excited and restless at first, sat stock still in our seats to read the dedication, and then burst into respectful and heartfelt applause. That theater is right next to Murray's main cemetery, all of my relatives are now buried in it.
Then the movie started, that great comedy, Star Trek IV, with Nichelle Nichols trying to be Spencer Tracy to six male Katherine Hepburns. Plus Catherine Hicks. What an amazingly funny movie!
I had seen the previous three movies in the biggest theater in Louisville (with a deeply curved Cinerama style screen), but seeing The Voyage Home on a modest rural screen was all right with me. As I recall, the movie was well received by its audience, including mom and dad. It was a case for them when their child suggested a perfectly good way to spend two hours, just what they raised me for. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was and is one of those good Star Trek movies which is also, straight up, just a good movie in general.
What a wonderful memory to have you and I are about the same age. my father and I saw Star Wars together five times in the theater my father rarely saw a movie first run twice Star Wars was of course something special I remember the first time we saw it we had heard all the hype and the excitement and being science-fiction fans we were looking forward to it but there were many many times that during the movie my father just said “wow“ we caught a matinee at 1 o’clock we walked out walked to the ticket counter bought two more tickets for the 3 o’clock showing we literally watched it back to back do you
To say I was happy as a gross understatement I was floating on cloud nine.
Thank you for sharing those memories!!!
Great story. Thanks for sharing it.
I flew to San Francisco coincidentally the week Leonard Nimoy died and I was moved to tears remembering their walks in this film, and the fact I got to talk to Nimoy about this film and the whale miniatures. He was so proud of the work he did and rightly so.
You can tell, when this movie was being made, they knew they had a gem on their hands. Right down to the Score.
"KHAAAAN!" Wait, that's a different gem.
That's funny. The score was easily the weakest part of the film in my and many others' opinion. James' Horners' score for ST II and III and the great Goldsmith's score for The Motion Picture were superior.
@@kurtrivero368 funny, I don't really care what your opinion is.
I'm no movie critic, but I've seen this film at least 5 times!! It has a very endearing quality to it!📽🎬
ONLY 5 times?!
Those are rookie numbers in this racket!
3:45 "It's nice that the people who originally made the Star Trek saga are still controlling what happens to it -- Instead of somebody else with bright ideas to turn it into George Lucas." Wow, shots fired -- J.J. Abrams and Alex Kurtzman.
exactly.
Thousands of shots fired saturating the screen to the point that I can't tell what's going on.
And shots fired 25 years into the future at that!
Yeah, wow. I was startled by how prophetic that statement was.
Agreed--I picked up on this point as well.
Wow!!!! How ironic Ebert says about giving the series away to a George Lucas Spielberg type.
JJ Abrams!
Yes indeed, thanks for your comment, exactly, I already put what you said in my description under "About" when first posting the video clip, just click on it above, also check out comments by other users! 8-)
Was just thinking that. How prophetic.
Well, the studio only needed to "give away the franchise to a Spielberg type" because it had held on to those same producers, directors and actors WAY too long. Enterprise and Star Trek: Nemesis whimpered to a halt and mainstream audiences had abandoned the franchise LONG before that. You can criticize some decisions Abrams made in resurrecting the franchise, but he did his job -- to the tune of $910 million at the box office combined for the last two films.
I know I've heard/read this somewhere on a forum... (i'm paraphrasing here)... "out with the witty and old... in with the dumb and new". I kind of agree to that.... but at the same time, there are still elements of the old Star Trek techno-babble and Picard-like monologues in the new movies.... though, there are times it feels there are fewer and fewer, each time. It's been said it might correlate with the fact that people's attention spans are getting shorter and shorter over time, with each passing generation. I mean, I could be typing this very comment, one moment and..........................................
+Steven Cramsie Nick Meyer, Harve Bennett, and the like were not the problem. Rick Berman's marriage to Roddenberry's extreme vision was the problem. Fortunately, Roddenberry's vision wasn't allowed to interfere with the Trek Trilogy (II, III, IV), but starting with Next Gen, it came to dominate the franchise to the point that it strangled the life out of it.
This is a real gem. I love the gags and the original plot. Some nice self-knowing jokes. One of the best Star Trek films.
Not to mention, no "bad guy". The Whale Probe was never seen as an enemy to be fought, but rather a mystery to be understood and a question to be answered, even as it was ripping Earth apart.
Add to that how every cast member was given something to do. It wasn't just "Hailing Frequencies open" and "Course laid in, Captain"
The only downside I have is the soundtrack. It and Generations are the only Star Trek soundtracks I have no desire to own.
Voyage Home is a true classic, you won't find anyone who didn't like it.
I LOVE Star Trek IV The Voyage Home! In 2021, Fathom Events presented it in theaters and I saw it all three times, twice on the same day. So much fun and you feel so good afterward. Took my boyfriend who had never seen a Star Trek movie and even he had a fun time with it.
Glad Siskel and Ebert really liked it too - miss these guys.
You can make the argument that if only Star Trek 2, 3, and 4 were made; it would be one of the greatest trilogies ever. And all three are tied together.
I've seen them sold as a trilogy. However, despite the break, Star Trek VI lines up with them well.
It was a trilogy.. it was amazing...
3s boring
2/4/6/First Contact/ 2009
@@PassportBrosBusinessClass Best Start Trek movies
It was 30 years ago today, November 26th, 1986, that I watched Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home at the San Bernardino, California Inland Center Mall movie theater, now an Interstate 215 off-ramp, while waiting in line, my two 6th Grade teachers Mrs. Dolan and Hargrave from Franklin Elementary School, Redlands were exiting, it's interesting because they took our entire class on a whale watch out of San Pedro circa 1985! 8-)
It is nice that you can share this interesting incident in your life. I also enjoyed the movie.
I was in 5th grade and laughed my butt of with my dad. We watched Star Trek most nights growing up - Original Series, The Next Generation, the movies and a bit of Deep Space Nine, before I headed off to college. So much nostalgia. I remember in college excitedly dragging my friends off to see new ST movies as they were released. 🥰🥰
I wish so very much I could have seen it in the theater. Unfortunately I was only 5 years old at the time. But that moment when the Enterprise-A is revealed must have been an absolutely amazing experience with a packed theater
Sadly, my first Trek in the Theater experience was Final Frontier. Good thing I was already a die-hard fan by that point
I miss Siskel & Ebert. Nice to see them do this review of my favorite Star Trek film. Thanks for posting.
Our grandfather was very sick but my dad still managed to take my brother and I to see this 🫂
It is funny that the two of them saw the future. They often disagreed, but not on this issue.
No, Doc. It's a miracle we got out of 2020.
Im a doctor not a miracle worker
If they'd brought guns with them on January 6, 2021....
TDS. Biden is YOUR President in 2024! LOL
3:54 Roger Ebert: Star Trek is good because the original creators are still making it, so it hasn't been turned into a George Lucas or Stephen Spielberg thing.
(Jump forward 30 years, and Star Trek is a JJ Abrams thing, and it has lost all the endearing characteristics that Siskel & Ebert describe here)
Yes indeed, thanks for your comment, exactly, I already put what you said in my description under "About" when first posting the video clip, just click on it above, also check out comments by other users! 8-)
And Star Wars was good until George Lucas sold it to Disney.
Just to now and Star Wars is run by Disney and complacently alienated the franchise and its fans
And yet, that very same positive became a negative in the next movie. Ironically, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier bears the closest resemblance to a TOS episode than any of the films, and that is also one of its negative points.
Many of the supposed endearing characteristics were lost long before JJ Abrams came into the picture. Meanwhile it gained other endearing characteristics that end up unable to be translated into the big screen (notably, DS9's evolving characters and story over multiple seasons).
For me, one of Star Trek's biggest problems when it comes to films is... so many put so much of an over emphasis on Star Trek II being the greatest, and so there is always an attempt to remake it, even before 2009. Nemesis was basically the same thing as well. But, Star Trek IV is the best example of the true heart of Star Trek and what sets it apart.... and if we spent more time putting Voyage Home on the pedestal it belongs on, things may have been different...
... but alas, if Star Trek IV "Save the Whales" was made today instead of 1986, it would get trashed for "forcing an agenda", while such things were praised back then. I guess it was acceptable in the 80's
Disney has made 3 bad star wars movies and one good one. Tbh Lucas last 3 were pretty bad so not that different imo.
I miss the 20th century. We're just limping along now and at this rate may not see 2100, let alone 2300.
Best part; when Chekhov & Uhura findca nuclear vessel, then contacts Kirk and says “...and Admiral, its the Enterprise.” to which the camera pulls back and we see the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier and hear the Star Trek theme. Theater I saw this in roared with laughs and cheers
It was actually the USS Ranger subbing (for obvious reasons) for the Enterprise.
Wessel
Watching these guys...how I miss them.
They dead.
@@titusmccarthy yeah no shit.
When gene Siskel died I thought quote I know he’s not going to see the new Star Wars movie“ after I thought I thought thank God Junior Sisco died before he saw this crap. I think that if he and Roger Ebert real life and saw the final three Star Wars movies they would’ve wept tears of infinite sorrow and mourning.
How prophetic there at the end, Mr. Ebert.
That music in the scene: completely classic and fits perfectly.
One of the few Trek films that isn’t about a person with a powerful weapon seeking revenge.
The original cast Star Trek films just have the one. next GEN had a couple. all of JJ Abrams Star Trek that was exactly the plot line Christ JJ try something new.
No original Trek movie is about that, except Wrath of Khan. TNG movies are garbage.
Yep. Every Trek movie after First Contact has been a variation of the "I will get my revenge!" plot. Tedious
@@dr.juerdotitsgo5119wrong. First Contact is the best ST movie
Normally film critics can be calculating negative about movie reviews. But this review was spot on great.
4 is my favorite. My wife and I also have a connect since we were Monterey Bay Aquarium members from '89 till '02. Love this whole movie. Catch when Kirk takes his first sip of Michelob. Pulls it off like he never tasted a beer before.
If you see that green building in the background while they're running across the street, that's intentional. It houses American Zoetrope studios, once co-owned by George Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola. THX 1138, American Graffiti, Godfather pt II, and Apocalypse Now were all produced in that building.
This wonderful film hooked me forever with the original cast! Could never get into the other spin offs.
Perfect summary of what’s great about this movie
That last comment made all those years ago is a direct and perfect slam against JJ Abrams
_"Somebody else with bright ideas to turn it into George Lucas or Steven Spielberg or something"_
Wow Roger, that was prescient wasn't it?
Loved watching this. Thanks for uploading!
This is my favorite original series movie.
3:50 ebert predicts the future
he mustve known somehow. cuz that's EXACTLY what happened lol (also see the end of his Nemesis review he predicts Discovery season 3 lol)
Right on.
"...we are looking for the Nuclear Wessels."
And then he thinks the cop might be deaf.
Ironically there is no 'w' sound in russian so he should have been saying 'vessels'. It was a cheap laugh, but effective.
@@thatcanadian6698 I once heard a Russian guy do the "V" pronounced as "W" thing.
Bit less enchanted with that than others seem to be.
@@thatcanadian6698 Maybe you could explain this to my Russian wife who sometimes shops at "Walue Willage."
Ebert saw the writing on the wall a generation before JJ Trek. I wonder what he (and Gene) would have thought about the updated series of films.
Ebert reviewed Trek 2009
And yet the new people getting involved to push the old aside is exactly what Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett were. In fact, Nick Meyer is guilty of many of the things people blame JJ Abrams for, not only for not having seen the show beforehand, and making the statement "I went in with the intention of changing as much as I could". It wasn't Abrams who said that, it was Meyer talking about making Wrath of Khan.
Meanwhile, every single Abrams Trek movie was better than Final Frontier, Generations, Nemesis, and even Insurrection. I even put 2009 and Beyond above First Contact, but most of that was because of the very poor handling of the Borg, and the hatchet job they did to Cochrane
Because he knew that the original creator(s) would not be around forever.
@@k1productions87 you gotta be kidding. Comparing Abrams fake Trek to First Contact is like comparing beef jerky to a perfectly cooked steak. You're entitled to your opinion of course but JJ Abrams Star Trek is NOT Star Trek just an immature and CGI palooza version.
@@kendallrivers1119 Talk about completely blinded by nostalgia. First Contact took its own canon and shattered it without creating a new reality or anything, all the while completely trashing the mystique of The Borg, completely wasting most of its epicness in the first 15 minutes, ruining the character (and the backstory) of one of the franchise's historical figures,... and turning Picard from intellectual to action star... just because.
And this from people who should know better.
Meanwhile, First Contact did absolutely nothing to bring new fans into the franchise as viewership on all the shows continued to dwindle, along with convention attendance.
2009 on the other hand saw the largest influx the fanbase had gotten since 1991... and rather than welcoming new people, people like you instead shunned them and pushed them away, showing how much you have forgotten nearly all of the principles Star Trek had spent decades trying to teach.
IDIC bro. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
You don't have to enjoy the new stuff, but there is no "only the things I enjoy" caveat in the word "infinite". Just because you don't like it doesn't make it illegitimate or any less "Star Trek" than anything else. In fact, IDIC is meaningless unless it also applies to things that don't appeal to you.
But then, the best way to test someone's tolerance is to present them with something they don't enjoy and see if they remain tolerant, or instead become intolerant. I see too many leaning toward the latter, while still hypocritically chanting Star Trek's principles, not realizing they are betraying virtually every one of them by their own actions.
I like how Gene says the crew like each other on screen when, in reality, most of the cast hated each other, or at least Shatner.
Anyway, IV was the one I watched the second most as a kid after VI, though the probe sounds gave me nightmares.
"...nice that the people who originally made
the Star Trek saga are now still
controlling what happens with the movies
instead of somebody else with bright
ideas to turn it into George Lucas or
Steven Spielberg or something, keep the
human element." -Ebert
I really liked Star Trek IV. The show had some hilarious moments and this film reminded me of that.
For me, IV is the best, hands down. It shows the heart of Star Trek more than any other, AND no character is wasted. Too often we have Takei and Nichols limited to "Course laid in, Captain" and "Hailing frequencies open", but here every character is given something to do and has importance in the plot. Meanwhile, we don't have a "villain", we have an unknown. Even as the probe is destroying the Earth, it is never treated as a bad guy to defeat, but rather a mystery to be solved and a question to be answered. It is a straight-up fun adventure while at the same time telling a relevant sociopolitical message (something that would get trashed today as "forcing an agenda"... but back then, it was celebrated for it).
I think if more time was focused putting Voyage Home on the pedestal it deserves to be on, rather than Wrath of Khan... we would get more intelligent Star Trek movies, rather than constantly repeated revenge plots
@@k1productions87 Agreed, except Star Trek II was a little better overall. It had the show right on. But IV is faun to watch over and over.
@@howie9751 I will say Star Trek II is the better "movie" from the simple standpoint of having a movie. But when you ask what is the better "Trek", the nod goes to Voyage Home. It incorporates more of what made Trek "Trek", while still being an enjoyable film for both fans and non-fans alike.
Plus, it is the only Star Trek film that doesn't have (nor does it require) a bad guy.
@@k1productions87 I don't disagree with what you say. But Star Trek II resembled the early episodes of the show, when there was tension, such as "The Balance of Terror." Star Trek IV is more like "The Trouble with Tribbles." Not that there's anything wrong with that.
@@howie9751 Actually... Balance of Terror was a LOT deeper than Wrath of Khan. As was Space Seed, for that matter. My problem with Wrath of Khan is they took nearly everything that made Khan compelling in TOS away, even his intelligence. Add to that all the potential Space Seed had left (hell, it was even in the episode's NAME for crying out loud) and tossed it all in the bin for a fairly cookie-cutter revenge plot. So much wasted potential... kinda like Voyager.
Also loved this movie.
Appreciate your comments in the description about that hack Abrams. 🖖
Someone should send this review to Jar Jar Abrams.
You know I’ll have to explain the newspaper to today’s kids
My favorite star trek movie
The Voyage Home is by far, my favorite Star Trek movie. 🥰
I love how they both considered The Wrath of Khan and First Contact to be the best Star Trek movies ever made. I have to agree. But The Voyage Home is right up there
The doctor gave me a pill,I grew a new kidney!
The screenplay was hilarious. Just having the sophisticated future consider Harold Robbins and Jacquelin Susan as literary giants is inspired.
Im pretty sure Spock was being sarcastic.
Star Trek IV has an amazing premise, and it's effective. I think that The Voyage Home is one of the franchise's best films. I honestly think that the classic Star Trek Films are actually quite better than the reboot series. The reboot series has some disappointing elements to it.
My favorite Star Trek movies are 2 and 4. I didn't like 6 that much but I liked 3. I thought the first reboot was really well done, but each subsequent movie after that was not that good. I didn't like the way the Wrath of Khan story was recycled.
That's a bit of an understatement. You're comparing apples to dog shit.
Eric van Bezooijen 6, The Undiscovered Country, is a terrific and fine sendoff for the original crew.
the problem with the reboot series is that so much time is spent focusing on how the majority of the fanbase says Wrath of Khan is the best film,... and what is the central focus of Wrath? A (quite frankly) simplistic revenge plot. An angry bad guy wanting retribution. So what did we get in 2009? Angry Nero taking revenge on Spock and Vulcan. In Into Darkness? Angry Admiral provoking a war, and Angry Khan wanting revenge on Admiral Marcus. In Beyond? Angry Krall/Edison ... though his motivations were a little deeper than simple revenge, he felt Humanity is only strong when it has an enemy to fight. In a way, revenge against the Federation for forcing peace and in doing so somehow weakening Humanity.
If instead everyone put Voyage Home on the pedestal it deserves to be on, the new films could have been so much different. Ironically, the mindset behind the reboots (making Star Trek more accessible to the general audience) is EXACTLY what Nick Meyer did with Wrath of Khan after The Motion Picture was seen as too cerebral and boring. If you think about it, that is also exactly what happened with Where No Man Has Gone Before after The Cage got the same criticism from NBC
@@k1productions87 If any movie that needs to be placed on a pedestal, it's The Motion Picture. Warts and all, it's the best film in the series because it's about the perpetual human journey into unknown, the joy and wonder of exploration, and returning from an experience with more queries. The Voyage Home is a fun break from the normal routine and it puts a smile on my face but that should not be held up as the proper way to do a great Trek movie.
I do agree about the unfortunate direction these films have taken. Enough with the angry antagonists seeking revenge. I want to get back to the optimistic, provocative Star Trek. I say keep the reboot cast, sans the wooden Chris Pine, and get a REAL Trek enthusiast to oversee this series.
Damn! Right at the end, these dudes be talking about Kurtzman Trek!
Wow I remember watching this episode as a kid!!
I grew a kidney watching this!
Ironic to consider this in light of the direction more recent Star Trek has taken.
Saw ST:IV in the theatre as a kid. The camp factor is there, but it's a good movie. 2 & 6 are my personal faves, but 4 is still enjoyable to this day.
I didn't see it in the theater, but it was the first Star Trek I ever saw, when my father brought home the VHS tape of it, and it also happened to have the teaser trailer for the new upcoming "Next Generation" TV series (before they even had the warp effect finalized) on it. I think it is probably the best introduction one could have possibly had, and definitely contributes to Voyage Home remaining as my favorite Trek film of all time.
Even looking back, it is unique in many ways:
It is a straight-up fun adventure without any "villain". The whale probe is never treated as a bad guy to defeat, but rather a mystery to be solved and a question to be answered
Every character is given time to shine and contribute to the plot, rather than being set decoration with the occasional "course laid in, captain" line.
And it is completely unapologetic about telling a blatant and relevant sociopolitical message. It doesn't shy away by subtly hinting at it and saying "its on another planet", no its happening right here, right now, and slaps us in the face with it, just as it should.
And I think it has probably the most perfect ending of any of the films. That reveal of the 1701-A tugs my heart strings every time. Yes, we know what eventually happens to her,... but in that moment "my friends... we've come home"
Man, talk about predicting the future! Roger Ebert is sadly describing the state of Star Trek today at the end of this video. The "Kelvin" timeline in the JJ Abrams movies and that horrible STD is exactly what we don't need in the Star Trek franchise. There's no more love or care for the characters, the lore, or the history. Everything is just rewritten, rehashed and ridiculous.
I was just about to say the same thing this is precisely what has happened I have to go back and watch everything pre 2009 now although I did like the first of the kelvin movies.
I saw the 2009 film as a necessary evil. The franchise needed to be revived so it had to appeal to outsiders.
So? Khan or Trek four? Both so good.
Great movie glad they liked it.
Both hit the right notes in this review. But, I think they overlooked the best points of SEARCH FOR SPOCK.
Being from the 23rd century, I wouldnt have guessed that Spock even knew what Italian food tasted like. But I suppose pizza is so good that maybe they served it on the enterprise?
this review is SPOT ON
They need t- shirts that say Double Dumb Ass On You.
Did the review end with a prescient comment about the JJ Abrams era of Trek Cinema ???
Well Mr Ebert, I couldn't agree more. Star Trek is no longer controlled by people who love it, but by people who love the money it can generate, and not even a Beastie Boys track can save the massive garbage ttrain being thrust on thristy fans. True the ruination was born with the William Shatrner helmed "V", but the real end of what Star Trek WAS in JJ turning into a razzle-dazzle CGI and emotionally vacant pew-pew sci-fi series.
I will stick to the trilogy of II, III and IV to define the franchise.
Roger Ebert predicted the fall of Disney and Star Wars.
"...It's nice that the people who originally made the Star Trek saga are now still controlling what happens with the movies, instead of somebody else with bright ideas to turn it into George Lucas or Stephen Spielberg or something. They keep the human element."
...Until 2009, when they handed it over to a man who understood nothing about the series, was never a fan, and cranked out nothing less than a Star Wars demo reel.
Thanks for your comment, yeah, I put something along these lines in my description under "About" when first posting the video clip, just click on it above, also check out other user comments, 1 month ago, there was another reply where I had a back and forth with someone else over this very same subject! 8-)
I may be responding a little too late, but have you seen Star Trek Beyond, and if so, what did you think of it?
I like Star Trek Beyond, there, now I've done it! 8-)
Beyond was the first film in the reboot series that actually struck me as a Star Trek film.
It's interesting, though--the film that really saved the franchise was Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, and that was made by Nicholas Meyer, a guy who, when he came in, didn't really give a damn about Star Trek at all! (He also co-wrote this one.) But he found a groove that really worked for the movie series.
This ranks a close second to Star trek II, IMO. Although the plot is a rather crazily disguised Save-the-whales plot, nevertheless, the basic elements of the series continues to hold true.. McCoy's lines about the mission's lunacy was hilarious, and so were the elements of "Crocodile Dundee" and "Back to the Future".
indeed, there is no disguise at all. It slaps us in the face with it, and doesn't bother to set it on another planet or make it a different species as an analogy. It was direct, and I respect them for that.
The main reason I put Voyage Home over Wrath of Khan is.... it was never about defeating a bad guy. Even as the whale probe was destroying the Earth, it was never treated as an enemy to defeat, but rather a mystery to be solved and a question to be answered. Wrath of Khan on the other hand.... was (in my opinion) a disservice to what was previously a very compelling character, and then dumbing him down with a bland revenge plot. Lost was his charming demeanor that made him so unsettling in his ruthlessness, and he became a caricature of himself. He spent the movie quoting Moby Dick, while completely missing the point of the book he was quoting.
Yes, Wrath of Khan was a great film and it was told well... but it was not a great "Star Trek". And the high pedestal it gets constantly put on is a major contributing factor to Hollywood thinking we want more revenge plots. We don't
Actually, there was an enemy in the movie: MAN! But, this was about educating man, instead of defeating them.
I was looking at "Wrath of Khan" as a non-trekkie and was greatly entertained. I have now seen the "Space Seed" episode of the original series. I don't think Khan was dumbed down that much and he was still compelling. His judgement was clouded a bit by his thirst for revenge. Besides, movies II, III, and IV all still had the strengths of the series with their ideas and the personalities of the individual characters.
This isn't in vogue these days. There has to be a villain and everyone has to be hostile to one another.
If there's a movie from the 1980s I'd see again in the theater I think this would be it. (I saw Aliens in the theater just a few years ago, but I really wanted to see the Laserdisc version with extended scenes.)
@0:45 And Captain Kirk thought 1984 San Francisco was hostile and unpleasant. He should see 2021.
Close, but technically it was actually 1986 San Francisco to be exact! 8-)
My favorite Star Trek movie
The JJ Abrams films were so cartoonish. There was always a sense of gravitas in the original Trek, even underneath the more outlandish stories. Episodes like Balance of Terror with its submarine type warfare and the portrayal of the enemy ship's commander and City on the Edge of Forever with the awful choice Kirk has to make were far superior to the rebooted Abrams movie stories, which were painfully bad, especially the last one...yikes. Voyage Home was a great film with lots of fun but still that underpinning of a serious quest.
Nice!
Siskel and Ebert: George Lucas or Steven Spielberg or JJ Abrams would have screwed this up like they always do for everything. Wait, it is only 1986, okay, so then forget about that last one.
Do not get the Spielberg here.
That last comment......
My fav st
To me, the extra little conversation between Spock and his father at the end of the film really adds to the endearing quality of the film. Here it is: czcams.com/video/X0Yy6x2Jky8/video.html
The one with the whales!!
The funny but not intended to be funny (or maybe it was intended) parts of the movie is when they reference humanity's past as "These People" as if it was an alien race or world, or some forgotten people they can't identify with. A clash of two types of human worlds so to speak - "old humanity" (XX century humans in the movie) and the trans-humanistic/"evolved" Space civ humanity (Enterprise crew).
The idea that someone as Intelligent as Kirk would just walk into traffic unaware that there might be a car coming is ridiculous
Maybe because in the 23rd century they don't have cars. At least not ones that aren't flying above ground.
He expects everyone to recognize his uniform as that of a starship commander. To not yield right of way would go against starship regulations.
Especially after what happened to Edith Keeler.
What Ebert is saying though is that they kept the team that created Star Trek together instead of giving it to someone else who would try and turn it into a Lucas or Spielberg movie. It wasn't a criticism of Lucas or Spielberg per se, but rather copycats of which there have been many, like JJ Abrams. The irony is that Ebert is actually wrong in his statement about keeping the Trek creative team together. Other than the actors, no one from the original series worked on the movies from Trek 2 onwards. Roddenberry was only a consultant and his script comments generally dismissed by Harve Bennett, Leonard Nimoy, William Shatner and Nick Meyer.
and then subsequently that same producer (Harve Bennett) and the only name more recognizable to Star Trek than Nimoy (William Shatner) went on to create the worst Star Trek movie ever made
@@k1productions87 man you're one negative nelly aren't ya? Lol
@@kendallrivers1119 Well, that movie was Star Trek V: the Final Frontier,... tell me I'm wrong.
I honestly want to see Shatner's cut of Star Trek V.
Oh man, if Roger only knew what Star Trek would become after 2008...
Too bad they didn't keep the human element they were talking about past DS9
Trek meets BTTF meets Crocodile Dundee meets Endgame
I wonder how Siskel & Ebert would feel about Avatar: The Way of Water, another great sci-fi fantasy about saving whales
i wonder how they'd react to Beyond....
Beyond was trash.
I enjoyed Beyond. Yes, it was the best of the reboots, and went to some decent effort to bridge the events of Enterprise, while at the same point bringing to light a relevant issue of today.
@@k1productions87 sorry but Beyond was so unmemorable that it basically killed that franchise. I only liked the first one in 2009 but even that one I've only seen twice.
@@kendallrivers1119 Beyond's failure was the fault of Paramount's complete and utter failure promoting it. The trailer was garbage and only seemed to get limited exposure anyway, its almost as if Paramount was deliberately trying to sabotage it. Beyond had far more Trek charm than 2009 and Into Darkness combined, and I actually enjoy those two.
And considering a whole new streaming service banked on Star Trek as its flagship program, and is now adding ANOTHER separate series... the franchise is hardly dead. But then, to today's audience, EVERYTHING is the "death of the franchise" even when its not.
Its impossible to find a Siskel and Ebert review of TWOK (edit, eventually uploaded 3 years later)
ct0760 That's too bad. I do remember reading a review of TWOK, when it first came out, that began, more or less, "Well, that's more like it!". That's in reference to the general disappointment in first ST movie, although over time, I've come to appreciate it more.
Star Trek: The Motion Picture is such an odd, fascinating movie. It's not a *good* movie, really, but I find much that's admirable about it--it's a visually gorgeous movie. It did end up making money, but not nearly as much as the studio expected--and the thing that really made the continued series viable was that the subsequent movies were much cheaper, in part because they leveraged as much of the investment in Star Trek: TMP as they could (sets, props, models, stock footage). They were even re-using some of that stuff in the later TV series, at least all the way up to Voyager. So, in a sense, the money they spent paid off.
TWOK = The Wrath Of Khan ... For Readers Not Up On Acronyms.
czcams.com/video/DmxskKnA1Hc/video.html
You"re from outer space? No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space. How do they miss that famous line???
This was a good one. I prefer TNG cast and movies though. That's what I grew up with.
Didn't grow up with Trek but have enjoyed the hell outta 2, 4, 6 and 9. The Abrahms reboot much like Rian Johnson's Star Wars remakes are so representative of the modern blockbuster: All flash, no subtance. No chemistry among the cast or strong, likable characters. Boy did Ebert call it in this.
"The rest of you, break up. You look like a cadet review"
They would've panned the reboots, I'm sure. They have none of those good qualities, they mentioned. And they did end up turning it into star wars.
While we definitely agree here, I did like/enjoy the 3 Star Trek reboots, especially Beyond, for what they are, entertainment purpose only films, similar to my feelings about Star Wars: The Farce Awakens and Rogue One. 8-)
There was nothing Star Wars about them. Explosions in space does not automatically make Star Wars. What they were trying to do with the reboots was constantly trying to call back to Wrath of Khan (just as Nemesis tried and failed at doing). Fans had spent too damned long propping Wrath up on such a high pedestal, that Hollywood immediately goes "That's what they want, a revenge plot. And those are so easy to do, so lets do more of those"
If we instead put Voyage Home on the pedestal it deserves to be on, things may have been much different.
@@k1productions87 Ok, ok, OKKKK! Lol we get it you hate the Wrath of Khan one of the GREATEST action\adventure films ever made beyond the franchise. You don't have to keep posting the same comment every single time geez lol.
The characters like each other.
The actors, though?
Not so much!
👀❤️
SAVE THE WHALES 80'S STYLE
The only major flaw in this film is the weak score. Alan Silvestri should had composed the music.
(3:44) *cough* "J.J. Abrams" *cough* Excuse me, I had a piece of disgusting phlegm in my mouth when Ebert started talking about people with so-called "bright ideas" trying to turn Star Trek into something it's not.
Sidenote: I love both Star Trek and Star Wars, but Star Trek is my first love. If anything good has come from the last 12 years of movies from those franchises, it's this: all the diehards from both franchises who say you can only like one or the other can now find common ground over a mutual foe and franchise-destroyer, Jar-Jar Abrams.
Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace was directed by George Lucas and JJ Abrams had nothing to do with it.
Lens Flares, shitty Music he likes, muh krew muh krew muh krew fire everything fire everything.
This is one of my favorites too. The early treks just had such terrible special effects and unbelievable props/set's etc.. that it's hard for me to like them. The wrath of khan was decent storyline wise, but still hard to watch effects. The voyage home to me was the 1st to have watchable special effects and good storyline.
whats special effects got to do with it?🤔🤔
@@sTIGERTIGER Standard Trek fan.
@@trev6783And you sound like a standard Abrams or other low brow action or cgi loving fan.
@@kendallrivers1119 I thought the original star wars trilogy had good effects though.. that was all models any puppets. Actually puppet yoda was better than cgi yoda.
I used to think this was one of the best of the series. I still think it is good, but having recently watched all six of the original cast movies, this was actually near the bottom of the list...but I think all 6 of the movies are very good.
Gene Siskel contradicted himself years later in reviewing "Star Trek6: The Undiscovered Country" on the TV show, " Siskel & Ebert At The Movies" when at that time he bad-mouthed the overall Star Trek series! Here, he characterizes it as a "good series".
Ebert also contradicted himself by saying the 1st, 3rd, and 5th Star Trek movies were bad (in his review of "Star Trek 6"). Yet he gave 1 and 3 a thumbs up.
@@citygirl5705 . You're right. It is amazing that Roger Ebert gave "Star Trek : The Motion Picture"(1979) a "thumb's up" review considering how tediously dull that movie was, even though it was impressive visually in terms of special effects. Of course, if a movie depends upon special effects to win over an audience, then the film is not very good at all.
Very good. Not, in my opinion, as good as Wrath of Khan.
They gave away way too much plot.
I thought the movie was funny but how is the movie better? The plot was dumb. An alien species that only communicates with humpback whales?? Da hell!!
It was really just an excuse to bring in an environmental message but so what? The film was still fun.