Could This Vehicle Have Been Diagnosed WITHOUT A Lab Scope?? Honda P0389
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2018
- In this video we have a look at a very interesting problem on a 2006 Honda Odyssey 3.5. It came in with a DTC P0389: Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor B Intermittent Interruption. Service info states that "If an abnormal amount of pulsing signals are detected from CKP sensor B, a malfunction is detected and a DTC is stored." So my question to you is, could this vehicle have been diagnosed WITHOUT seeing the waveform on a scope or GMM? -Enjoy!
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Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. South Main Auto Repair assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. South Main Auto Repair recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of South Main Auto Repair, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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*4-Channel 4425 Standard Kit (AES# pt-PP923)
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South Main Auto Repair Eric, what size rubber gloves do you wear?
Contact Demolition Ranch about your swag. He started a new company making and designing swag for CZcamsrs.
You find the 4GB of RAM on your surface pro is good enough for what you do? Do you use your pico with it or just a separate older laptop?
South Main Auto Repair .... read my mind, thanks!
Whatever screen recording software you were using failed for you.
Have you tried something called obs (open broadcasting studio).
Always seemed to work for me
This is the difference between a parts changer and a mechanic. Awesome job.
i agree, but the customer is the one who balked at the price he was quoted for factory parts and a factory tech, (I'm assuming), kept shopping around till he found the lowest price. You get what you pay for, except all the people in southern Ohio who deal with Eric who get more than they pay for.
“I don’t usually get excited about car repairs” How do you not? It’s so satisfying to diagnose a car correctly and fix it right the first time, especially when it’s a problem everyone else is scratching their heads about
Well done Eric, even if someone had fixed the car by installing new parts. They still would have learned nothing because they didn't "See" what they were doing.
Great Video!👍
I agree Dan. We need to be able to "see" the electricity and what the ECM is looking at to make the call. In my opinion with out a scope it would have never happened :)
gotta watch the pixies dance. lol
South Main Auto Repair
A lot of people complain about the use of a lab scope in auto repair, but the lab scope/pico scope has the ability to show the tech exactly why the problem exists.
The tech who found the charging system on my 98 Ford Contour used it to find that the cluster was shorting out the alternators.
Things today isnt just voltage. It is a sine wave signal, and that signal has to go in a certain way for the PCM to understand it.
South Main Auto Repair It is great that Diagnose Dan watches your channel. U both r fantastic teachers and scope users. We even learn a little Dutch, or is it Flemish from Dan. From Eric we learn what Grandma says
Bill Rimmer grandma always right
Diagnosed a corrosion issue with my motorbike kill switch and said 'That's your problem..LADY' ..ha....but I live in France and I usually say 'Voila' ....it's all your fault Eric..hahha
Eric O your not a mechanic, you're a Vehicle Doctor. You are correct, no scope means no fix. Turning a Hondon't into a Hondoo, my hats off to you.
Hey guys thanks for the replies, it helps me understand a lot about the auto repair industry. I'm only a hobby mechanic and am always looking to increase my knowledge.
actually computer technicians are sort of what we are. we are working with highly sophisticated vehicles with actual computer systems on board.
Smashed Thumb yes it can be done with just a meter, read the reply by sarge.tester99
After watching close to 40 videos it seems you're the shop vehicles come to when no one else can fix them...
Pretty darn impressive Mr. O!
Your abilities to not only diagnose, but explain to the customer and us what was going on is incredible! I've been watching your channel for a while since I'm a DIY person and all I can say is THANK YOU!!! Beyond that, mentioning and standing by eating the cost if it was the incorrect repair was astounding. Never have I come across a shop that would own up to a mis-diagnosis. You rock and customers are lucky to have you!
When I was in the USN, I took a long class on accumulating errors. It was really a great class. If you change 3 parts and each one has a .1% error, then all 3 together do not add. They are logarithmic. So, instead of contributing via addition or multiplication, they accumulate together logarithmically. Anywhoo, only changing one OEM to aftermarket whatchadoodle, the change doesn’t cause a money light. But 3 (or more) can cause the whole kit and kabootle to throw in the towel. Great video!! Without a scope, it would have just been the same way I type. Hunt and peck. Love it.
Thanks Big. That is a mind bender.
This is called a tolerance stack. I work technical support for my company and I see this sort of thing happen every once in a while. Luckily, we don't have to worry about aftermarket parts, but even OEM parts have a tolerance. And if you stack those up, it could lead to a failure.
@@camaronash Same thing as a past mill wright, we called it a stack up error. If part A was built but at the extreme of its tolerance, then part B also at the extreme of its tolerance meant that part C a combination of part A and Part B was then out of its tolerance.
This is a text-book example of fault finding, knowing your subject inside out and having the insight to apply technology to gather information. Hats off you Eric. These videos are brilliant. Please keep them coming!
Been to 5 different shops and no one was able to get the proper diagnosis. That says a lot about your skill and intelligence an ability to diagnosis with your scope and come up with the proper solution. I have met a lot of mechanics in my life but you are by far one of the better diagnosticians that I've seen. I really enjoy your videos thanks for posting them.
Eric, you nailed it again! Great job diagnosing this problem. I had always thought that these aftermarket timing belts were okay to use. I guessed wrong.
The scope is a good way to go. When I was in H.S. auto shop back in the 1970's, we used one to diagnose all kinds of problems. It was a "Sun" if I remember correctly. Things were much simpler with just points, plugs, and condensers. Sometimes distributors would wear out and cause strange problems that were hard to track down.
I also remember watching a news story around the same time. It was called: "The $33 spark plug." It raised the issue that most shops were not taking the time to really diagnose problems. Instead, they would do a "tune up" which was $33 at the time.
For the program, they narrowed the plug gap on one cylinder of the "bait" car, causing it to misfire. They then took it to several shops, and service stations. (Anyone remember what those were?) Some shops correctly diagnosed and fixed the problem, but a lot of them just did the full tune up for the $33. Lots of extra money spent for nothing.
I hope that you will pass on your great skills to others. Having the trace from a properly running engine was a great idea.
The issue was probably created when the owner took it for a routine timing belt job and the shop decided to upsell a cam sensor because they told the owner it should be replaced while it's easy to access. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's definitely no harm in replacing parts for preventive maintenance reasons, but at least use high-quality parts that won't compromise the vehicle's operation or create new gremlins to chase down.
This video is GOLDEN!!! This vehicle has been to 5 different shops and not roadworthy since February but with the ingenuity of Eric O's mindset that he triple checked his wave pulses on the Picoscope, it is now back in the hands of a satisfied customer. I gotta preach again about these subpar aftermarket parts. Maybe the Dayco belt wasn't enough to set the code but you could clearly see that it was off from factory tolerances enough to cause concern. And what about that aftermarket crank sensor??? That was setting the code because of cheap engineering during manufacturing now costs a customer more in repair bills than the sensor's savings 10 times over! How many times do i have to say, it's not saving you money if it doesn't work and you have to replace it over and over and over again. I was an OEM 20 years ago, and I'm still an OEM guy now. I don't want your Autozone, Advanced Auto, and Oreilly's junk on my vehicles. I can see my local mechanic trying to figure this one out after replacing my car with a Dayco belt kit. God Bless Eric O!
I try to keep a mental list of aftermarket parts I don't trust. Water pumps have been on it for a long time and a just almost learned the hard way (I found the problem in time to save the engine) that belt tensioners should be on it too. On the other hand, I've never had reason to complain about brake parts and my slightly shabby-looking imitation right headlight and tail light don't bother me if I don't look too closely at them. Live and learn.
Good job Eric, yes it is possible to detect that double pulse without the use of a scope using either a custom designed electronic circuit (hardware) or a microcontroller with a little bit of code (software). Not something most people would do when a scope makes it so much easier. I have done something like this in the past when hand held scopes were not mainstream to verify a speed sensor that would drop out on a motorcycle. If you're good with electronics it really isn't too difficult but for most cases not worth the effort.
When the other mechanic shops fail, SMA to the rescue. Excellent technical & logic skills!
Thank you Eric. Great video. You could have used 3 volt meters, back probed each sensors signal, set your stop watch to micro seconds and easily found the problem. Volt meter B would have blipped two times every 278 micro seconds at the same time Volt meter A would have blipped once. Easy peezy, Bob's your uncle. LOL. Waveform is the only way to catch this. I appreciate your videos. Have a good night O family.
Woah. That is a new one for me. Never seen that before. Despite only being a DIY mechanic who only works on older vehicles and rusty crap i got myself a cheap 8 channel hantek scope last year and its already been quite useful. I've diagnosed 2 wrongly installed timing belts. A couple dead sensors. A bad fuel pump and done a couple relative compression tests. I also captured a load of "known goods" with it while experimenting in case any of my regular vehicles give trouble. There is no need to break the bank with a Pico if you can't justify it (even though they are very nice!).
Hi, how's the Hantek scope doing? I am planning to buy one as well. How's the software and durability?
Another fantastic diagnosis by SMA. You never cease to amaze me with how you figure some of these things out.
Eric O., took guts to make that call, knowingly that if it was a fail , you would have to eat the labor and parts. This was a DEEP diagnostic that most shops would have said "Leave this one alone". Only the very Best Tech. would go after this hunt. Congratulations on your hard work.
110% agree with you Mr. Eric. Form a hypothesis then verify always. That's why we have diagnostic tools for. Seriously, you wouldn't trust your doctor if he didn't run test so why would you trust your mechanic. One simply works on a more sophisticated machine is all. Keep up the good work sir.
Aftermarket junk parts, you gotta love it. In this case, a scope allows you to see what the ECM sees, absolutely necessary on this one.
Absolutely brilliant, your properly the best electrical diagnosis on youtube, with bit humour thrown in, may I bring my lads' car for you to sort out.
Great diagnosis. I must mention, and this is before seeing your video, a friend of mine a retired police auto mechanic, told me to always use OEM parts when I did a brake job on my car. Perhaps this has some merit.
People who live near your workshop are so lucky to have such a professional mechanic like you sir..
Two words. You Rock!
And quit apologizing to us for glare and such. You are giving away some amazingly valuable information for free and anybody that has a problem with camera glare can bugger off. Also, I am with wyattoneable, only way I see this getting repaired would be to bring it to the specialist at South Main.
Your by far the best tec I know, I’m addicted to your channel a very impressed Brit from over the pond.
I know this is an old video, but this is by far one of the best diagnosis in the whole internet
Some shops would just throw parts at it plugs, crank & cam sensors praying for a fix. Instead of diagnosing the cause. I love how Eric goes through the process.
Another awesome video! I love how you (correctly) use the word hypothesis. Keep up the great work (and videos)!
That was a brilliant way to diagnose this .
Love to see you diagnose, you test, you fix. Not just throw parts at it. Wish I lived near you. I would tell everyone "remember if I can't fix it Eric can, thanks for asking "
Great video even without the diagnosis ride-along. The initial summary was fine - working off the scope traces was clear and concise. Thanks Eric.
Great video Eric. It’s a great feeling fixing a tough problem. Especially when others couldn’t. 😊. You are truly an expert.
You're and dang genius! No bull, I really mean it. How many other shops would have figured it it out? None where I live.
Love your enthusiasm with the clap when you said money light also love the expression great job Eric O @South Main Auto
I can hold my own with cars but this guy just blows me away. I learned something here. Stick to OEM timing components. How many DIY would realize that was the issue? NONE. Lucky to have a guy around like this.
Love starting my day with your videos. Always a good day.
In a (rather large) nutshell Eric, that was a very interesting video and I can appreciate your satisfaction in fixing that problem. No, you couldn't have fixed that without a scope (unless you blindly changed out components, which can become very costly very quickly) Great work and great video, despite your tech headache. Cheers! Chris 👍
I love watching these videos and riding down the dusty diagnostic trail with you and trying to figure out which turn you're going to take round the next bend. Sometimes I'm right and other times I end up in the weeds and brambles a little wiser and thankful I didn't need to skin a knuckle for the lesson. Keep them coming, Pardner.
Eric, you have no quit in you, A true Master , a pleasure to watch! Thank you for sharing.
I'm pretty handy, but I have no idea if this could have been diagnosed without a scope. I'm old and still living in the mid-twentieth century, when a real person could still work on his or her machine. But alas, things move on, and we now drive around in computers with wheels attached. Thank goodness for guys like you.
PS, and I hate to say it, but cars are much better now than in 1960.
No, but that's the point here surely? The actual problem was one that could have affected any engine with a timing belt, old or new. The sensors enabled the diagnosis to happen, they didn't cause it.
Eric I love your diagnostics skills I am learning a lot from you! I believe that you did the right thing with the Pico tool because like you said you could have wrongly diagnosed the issue and more parts would been put on and never solve the issue. I like how you take your time and explain what you are seeing and coming to a final conclusion to solving the issue and you are right on because the pico gave you the clues to solve it! Thank you for all that you do Eric you do a fantastic job!
This was absolutely amazing Eric! You are the BEST auto technician/Mechanic I know of. For myself being a mechanic for 10+ years, I always learn something new from you and your videos. Your great and I enjoy watching all your videos and can’t wait for more to come! Thank you sir,
Clayton G.
This is why I consider you the best I have ever seen awesome diagnoses and fix! Keep them coming I am learning a lot!
cheaper parts not always the way to go,awesome job Eric
I sell parts. I smile when I sell cheap parts because I'm going to be selling that part again soon.
no matter how much you tell a customer that going the cheap way is not recommanded , he will still go with it and take a chance that it will work out .This is omething that cannot be avoided is the customer's choice or rather bad decision . You can only advise him on not going for the less reliable stuff and thats it
It's a Honda.
NON OEM PARTS.
HONDA IS PRECISION.
HONDA WORKS HONDAS WAY.
" HONDA makes formula 1 engines. "
If you deviate away from Hondas Standards you get a problem.
Love the attention to details. You rock.
Very well done I must say. When you take pride in your work these are the results that you get. I'm sure
the customer is going to be SOoo happy when they get the call. Thank you for showing this to all of us.
Man that was a great diagnosis that town you’re in is lucky to have you good job I can appreciate how hard this stuff is to do did it for years keep up the good work
One good dude. I like how you never say or point the goof troop out that calls you out. Very very classy also with the technology put in cars you need a scope. I've seen so many shops close their doors because they refuse to keep up with technology.
Eric.... I absolutely agree.... the scope and wave form pattern along with the code setting criteria is critical in understanding what is going on. The comparison with the "As-is Bad" with a "Known Good" and especially the "After" wave forms is very impressive and agrees with the code setting criteria. Added to the proper running of the engine with lack of codes after repair and YES, you can have a positive feeling that the problem is solved. The PICO Scope and software rules again! I was interested to hear about you checking for a magnetized pulley, and the thought process behind a "miss-trigger" of the crank sensor. My money would be the after market Crank Sensor not meeting "SPECS" in some way, and causing the problem on it's own, but as you say, with the vehicle's unsuccessful repair history, the cost of the parts verses the cost of labour to access them later..... good call! There are many aftermarket parts that are just fine and at least equally as good as OEM, however, sometimes there are critical and very subtle "Quality & Fit Issues" that makes all the difference. Maybe the OEM has a different shaped or sized core or more windings than a normal sensor to make it more sensitive than most, something that the OEM has done to ensure proper operation that eludes the aftermarket industry as not important. With a sensor in a buried location such as that with such a critical timing function to preform, OEM is often the best choice.
What a shame to loose your original data, but SO GLAD that you completed this video. Valuable information for all to be sure. BRAVO!
Imagine how much it would help customers maintain their cars if the manufacturer would share all the code setting criteria. It's crazy that our government allows them to keep all of this information hidden and secret. We need a CONSUMER BILL OF RIGHTS TO REPAIR.
Being the Director of Maintenance for a Charter Airline for nearly 40 Years and overhauling both Piston & Turboprop Engines, I once commented to a Transport Canada Inspector, that I had never seen an industry where "So much information was needed by so many, but available to so few!" It seems that the Automotive Industry is very similar.
As I understand it, back when all this automotive computer stuff started the manufacturers DID try to keep it all secret so you had to go to the dealer to get your car fixed. I believe there was some sort of lobby or whatever by the aftermarket car repair shops (or their representatives) to get the government to force the release of the info. - Hence the OBD 1 and 2 standard interface was created and scanners became available to the general public.
If the manufacturers had got away with it nobody would be able to fix their vehicles.
BTW Apple is trying to lobby the government so that nobody should be allowed to fix Apple computers. They are even trying to sue third party repair shops claiming that if a computer is repaired by anyone other than Apple it is no longer an Apple computer. They don't sell OEM parts etc. etc.
You are definitely the king of automotive diagnostics. Fantastic video.
I just read the article in motorage magazine and after that, went to your youtube channel and watched the video , and all I can say is you are the man , thank you for sharing , God bless you
Wish I lived in the Avoca NY area! Eric you would totally have my business.
Awsome diagnoses and repair. Oem parts does pay off.
I'm watching the older videos so I can learn and I'm starting to see the reoccurring theme develop...OEM gives you the best shot at one-and-done...Thx.
Outstanding job Eric O! No apologies needed for the quote long winded part! I myself learn from detailed explanations and a true diagnosis ! Thank you for another awesome video sir.
Awesome diag Eric!! Can't wait for my pico to get here, the guy's at AES wave are awesome met them at Automechanika
Flat Rate Master yes it can be done with just a meter, read the reply by sarge.tester99
your video is never to long. it's educational for me to learn.
Rafael A Nieves Too* long.
Very good diagnosis. Doubt that anyone could have found this without the correct tools. Love watching your videos as they are great tools to learn by.
You should be stoked Eric, that is a phenomenal diagnosis and repair. Congratulations. Most importantly, Thanks Dr. O!
Would be good if you could put Honda P0389 in the title of the video to make it more easy to search for. Great information in the case study.
Awesome video Eric, I agree, you need a scope if you're running a garage. You need to narrow down the targets when you have to fire the parts Cannon. Sounds like a no-brainer to use OEM timing parts.
Awesome job! I was trained as a aircraft mechanic back in the 60's. Totally different today. With all the electronics you DEFINITELY need the correct tools to diagnose. You are amazing and entertaining.
Awesome video Mr. O. Love learning from your video's. You break down all steps that the every day DIY mechanic can understand.
Most mechanics wouldn’t have eaten that cost, had the diagnosis been incorrect. Only an honest one. Final note, my car’s been to 5 other repair shops and no one had fixed it, then you do! Guess where I’m going First next time! What’s that you say, “if I can do it, you can do it.” Evidently not!
You would think that might be the case but rarely do I get a lifetime customer from an event like this. However they will return for a similar situation every time. I am ALWAYS the last resort and bail out.
well then ,they must be sittin at the back of the class not payin attention
South Main Auto Repair hahaha. I know the feeling. Somebody takes a shit, I clean it up. Story of my automotive life 🤷🏽♂️
That doesn't often happen because I am "expensive" so I usually only see the vehicle AFTER 1 or more other "less expensive" shops has failed to repair. I am sure some people save money by using less qualified techs for simple problems but am equaly confident that if they ever have 1 incorrect "repair" they have lost money overall.
P.S. unfortunatly often a "new" part is the problem whether defective or not quite to factory spec.
superminer66 I applaud your integrity
I couldn't have fixed that with 50 scopes!!
What I great video. I get it, that feeling when you diagnose something, put the diagnosis out there ready to face the consequences good or bad. But then seeing the results and being correct. Not only that, but being able to visually see the results, now that's priceless. I am a marine technician, Master Yamaha, Mercury and Mercruiser stalking you, Scanner Danner and others, putting the concepts and processes I've learned to work on boat motors. Thank you my Good Sir, for taking the time to share your work.
Without that scope, you would have been guessing what was going on. Very good video. Thanks.
You sir are awesome. 5 Stars for you!
Excellent video Eric. Great info seeing as I have Hondas and only use Honda OEM parts. Nice find 👍❤️
it's been my experience that honda parts are the best choice for hondas as they often last longer and others simply won't work.
Many years ago in the carb days, I found it very difficult to find a aftermarket alternator that would work correctly on a Honda and always went OEM, and for some reason dist. caps too.
Hey Mr. O, thank you for showing us the back of the cam pulleys, really helped me to understand how those pulse patterns on the scope are made.
This guy is a real mechanic. Would be an outstanding instructor. I appreciate the explanations Eric provides.
Some “mechanics” throw parts at a problem, he diagnoses, analyzes and whoops it.
You know my opinion about the need for a scope. I might add that it also takes a lot of study and field experience to master the information your looking at. As to your question " what would be your approach"? I'd make an appointment with Vanessa and drive 765 miles to get it fixed right!
wyattoneable yes it can be done with just a meter, read the reply by sarge.tester99
Then see my reply to that.
sargetester99 no it can't there is no way a multi meter would catch or show the cam triggering a millisecond on every third notch. It's impossible think about it I multi meter would not be taking a average it makes no sense. To be honest I don't even understand why he thinks that WOULD work
Vegas, eh? You wild man...
Well done,great work
I can only hope to someday have as much knowledge in the automotive world as you, Eric..... excellent video I'm constantly learning something new from you!
Nice work doctor! You have every right to be excited about this as this is confirmation of your self-learned master skill set. Bask in the glory of your victory and thanks for bringing us along.
A challenge. Eric need a challenge. No car can beat him..
I agree that you could not definitively diagnose that problem without a scope. Having said that, I could probably have fixed the problem using the general premise that the last thing you did to the car before the problem appear is likely the cause and maybe, just maybe I might have stumbled upon the fix. What bothers me about this more than anything else is that this is the death of DIY car repair. It also strongly points out that aftermarket parts are pure chinesium crap and you are as likely to introduce a problem as fix one using those parts. I've been a line mechanic back when cars didn't have thirty computers per square inch and decided at that time my future was in programming computers. But I've always repaired my own cars to keep a hand in it. Now, as I approach the age of living on a fixed income, I can't see buying tools that cost a months income to continue to work on my own cars, nor can I see taking my car to a mechanic that has to support the cost of more specialized tools than a neurosurgeon, especially when they aren't as good at using them as you are. Well at least I can still get my fix watching your videos.
Revised, updated name for China -- "Crapland".
Great comment. I have been doing my own repairs forever , been lucky not to have huge problems. I often use the general premise that the last thing you touched and it has served me well but I also see my time as a DIY er is coming to an end. But then the other conundrum of where to find a honest great mechanic. I guess we do what we can.
A PC connected scope that could see this problem can be had for less then 100 bucks on amazon. The cheaper scopes aren't the best, but they're good enough to spot the great majority of failures including this one. Honestly people oversell this shit a 50 dollar multi-meter, the above mentioned 90-100ish dollar scope, and a 1-200 dollar low end scan tool that can pull codes and do basic resets will do like 95% of the electrical debugging on any modern car. As a bonus other then the scanner those same tools have applications on basically ANYTHING electrical, so if you're ambitious you can find applications for them in the wider DIY realm like appliance or other electronic repair.
Sure you can go find a 5,000 dollar scan tool, and a 2,000 dollar scope, and 500 dollar multi-meter, but do you NEED those? Not usually, those are luxury items that may save time, but maybe not even that, in many cases you're paying that extra cash for durability and maybe the ability to catch those 5% of edge cases that the cheaper options won't.
Important for someone using them every day for a living, yes, less so if you're a occasional DIYer. It's true that modern cars have more electronics, but what people tend to ignore is that the same cost reductions that have driven that proliferation have also effected the market for electronic diagnostic tools. You really don't need thousands of dollars in equipment to do the vast majority of diagnosis on modern cars, and for certain specialist tools rental options exist.
Love the dedication you put into your work, we need more people like you out there.. Peace, God Bless America...
I learn something new each video. I’m disabled/retired but want to be informed to keep my vehicles diagnosed.
I always use OEM water pumps, alternators, starters, wheel bearings, toyota brake shoes, sometimes you need quality parts. on the other hand I just fixed my sick Echo MAF sensor with a 19 dollar one that works perfect. its an uncertain world. LOVED this great diagnostic/repair.
Yes, I would second this. My rule of thumb, use OEM on parts you can't swap on the side of the road.
Eric!, just when I see no hope (the last vid you posted and my rant) You restore hope to the masses! I really respect the many teaching moments in this and really all your vid's. I also realize this has to be the platform you springboard off. An exit strategy in which you teach a handful of students will not suffice. You need to be lifted to a larger audience.
Dont Know how many times I've watched this video 6-8 times and it never lets me down, well done again, a great Diag,
@12:08 Maybe the second notch, on the after market pully, reads more Tesla ("magnetic force") than the other 2 notches and also less than on the new OEM. Maybe a fabrication error? If the second notch had this error, the hall sensor could have seen and signal it, letting the ECU set this error code and turn on the MIL.
As always, good video. 👍
Coulda fixed it with a Dremel lol. Only problem is to know which tab the offender was.
I wish all auto-techs/mechanics had your analytical sense and diagnostic talents. Considering the amount of work it takes to R&R all three parts (belt, pulley, sensor), it was smart to do all three.
Having dealt with Hall Effect sensors in electrical engineering, my bet would be that it was the sensor causing the problem. Consider this - the bad sensor was triggering too soon, thus making all 3 pulses start too soon - as evidenced by your scope trace. This would cause the dual-trace to imply that the belt might be a bit too long - a possibility and something you thought of. Since it was a third-party sensor, it becomes immediately suspect. Sensor-trigger is defined by the sensor sensitivity and the air-gap between the sensor and the "metal nub". If the sensor is too sensitive, it will trigger too soon on all three nubs. So why was the second trigger wider than the others? Because of left-over hysteresis from the previous nub... it triggered slightly sooner because it wasn't yet fully-drained/reset from the previous nub... which is why the first and third triggers were normal-sized (they had longer sensor-reset/drain time).
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The only way to know for sure is to replace JUST the sensor... but your choice to do all three is smarter, and shows the value of experience.
I like it! Great thought process. Wish I was an electrical engineer and could prove this out with the old sensor. Only thing I noticed with it, it was more "magnetized" than the OEM one. Does that make a difference I thought? I dunno...
Is there a way to observe the "hysteresis reset" via the scope?
It would be nice to pinpoint the fault, for peace of mind, if nothing else.
Looks like the sensor was to sensitive as all the pulses are wider. Then the one pulse was widened by what you describe as the sensor-reset/drain time.
Good thing the customer opted for the recommended cam sensor replacement.
I can't see how, without a dual-channel scope, you would get off the one crank sensor, which reported, and onto the cam sensor. The second crank sensor not reporting bad would likely cause a rule out of the cam sensor without the waveforms on the scope.
My thought was the trigger that was longer was getting triggered off the pulley itself and not the tab due to bad sensor. If you follow the pulley there was a metal strip following the line of the sensor except before the long sensor trigger. Thinking the sensor was picking up the edge of the hole.
Good possibility.... turn on early & turn off late = a Large Fat Pulse, timing, & dwell issues. If the sensor and/or the pulley had a residual magnetic field built up in it for some reason, that could also "skew" things up, and you did check for that. Also, when it comes to Hall Effect Sensors, and you have nothing to compare it to, what is good and what is bad, or does it even matter if a magnetic field in the sensor id detected, and how strong is it? I would love to experience the diagnostic thought process with Eric directly.... it would surely be interesting with 2 different but similar lines of thought. Sadly though..... wait for the video.... learn, be entertained, and send back appreciation, encouragement, and support for work well done. Thanks Eric.
It’s ALWAYS awesome and feels so good when you can fix a problem that some may consider or call a NIGHTMARE!!
Nice job! 👍
You are better than 100% of the techs I've met, you've taught me something i would have never learned myself
@17:40 You changed Ms O's timing belt? Cool! I know she was nagging at you for a while on it. :D
me and my buddy are gonna tackle his odyssey timing belt..definitely gonna go oem parts.
Honda charges very reasonable prices for the parts. They really don't want people blowing up their engines because they can't afford to replace the belts. ALWAYS replace the water pump and flush the heater core and refill with the proper Honda blue coolant. Japanese cars have different coolant to protect the water pump and seals and the different aluminium alloy they use in their blocks/heads. The coolant is made in Illinois and it is the same as Toyota coolant.
the belt price was 10-20 bucks difference, on my toyota, why people cheap out i dont know. Granted I think people still go to the parts counter of a dealership instead of online, and wonder why they feel they are getting violated. online oem parts stores are very close. And if there is a huge difference in price there is probably a reason. parts are not artificially inflated for no reason. you are paying for that difference whether you see it or not.
Don't buy the parts from the dealer. Get the aisin kit off Amazon, it is OE parts for way less. The only other thing you will need is a serpentine belt and coolant.
working shlub yes with Honda toyota Nissan get on like especially water pumps. I've been told toyotas are really weird about aftermarket pumps. Just like done aftermarket o2 sensors. Works great for weeks maybe fail.
were gonna go all OEM...this is his only vehicle and we cant afford any problems....dealer quoted him 2k .
One more thing I forgot to add, Never apologize for the amazing work you do. If I lived a little closer instead of central Canada, I would definitely be a life long customer.
just amazing, intuitive, easy, yet brilliant all at the same time. Well done Eric.
I can almost guarantee that you have a new customer now that will probably ask for oem parts on most of their repairs.
Check out frame number 0001, I could tell it was going to be a good vid from there! Quite a interesting case. I wonder how many engines have been junked out due to things like this?! Thanks a bunch!!!
This video deserves a comment ;) Great find and fix Eric! The scope is for sure underrated at many places. Thanks for sharing.
You are a genius. Even mechanics from dealer can't fix a car and I seen you fixing them. Keep the good work
So statistically speaking, South Main Auto is 500% better than the surrounding shops!
Nick Starks, you do have a way with figures!
Now I’m a little scared with my Odyssey. I have just done the TB, water pump, idler and tensioner with the Aisin kit. I have no code for now, I hope I will stay like this.
Thanks Eric for this video. Could help in the futur. 👍
Aisin is part of the Toyota/Lexus KEIRETSU, they make good stuff. Volvo used Aisin transmissions for many years.
You should be good with Aisin kit.
There is OE Aftermarket and junk aftermarket. Aisin is an OE supplier. You will be fine.
Please keep an eye on your Aisin water pump. People within our community have reported numerous issues with recent batches of Aisin water pumps. This was related specifically to Hondas.
Aisin is Japanese, they tend to take more pride in manufacturing. My 1992 Jeep still has the original aisin transmission and tcu that function perfectly every day.
You sir are LEGEND. What an awesome diagnosis...it must give you a tremendous feeling of accomplishment to succeed where so many other failed!
I am glad you salvaged this case study. It was definitely worth sharing! Yay for OEM parts goodness!