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Why the Elder Gods Suck (And How to Fix Them)
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- The MK Elder Gods are so scarce, I could barely find enough footage for this video. In this video I discuss why the Elder Gods are generally unpopular, as characters, and offer a way to write them more believably.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:03 Anticlimactic Reason
01:46 "If god is all-powerful, he cannot be all good."
03:04 Enter The One Being
06:02 Enter Shinnok
08:53 Raiden and Shinnok's Tragedy
10:54 What If...
#mk #lore #eldergods #mortalkombat #powersystem #shinnok #atla #avatarthelastairbender
Imagine Liu Kang frickin beating the crap outta the elder gods.
Already has kind of. He bodied Shinok, Cetrion, and Kronika.
@@robertstone9325 Two Elder Gods and a Titan. Bonus points, *_they're all related._*
@@CoralCopperHeadand he's a demi God not a God
Liu Kang is lowkey the John Wick of the MK universe.
@@CynicalWarlock yeah no he's the new batman of Mk full of bs and plot armor
So does Liu Kang have elder gods in his new era, or did he just keep the saying "BY THE ELDER GODS!" from the past timeline? I can't imagine that as keeper of time he was greatful for their existence considering that they failed him and nearly Earthrealm. I think it's funny how Kronika thought Raiden was the problem when her children were too fucking lazy to balance good and evil.
The nepotism is strong in the elder god family.
And that's a good question about Liu Kang. His buddhist/taoist side probably thinks all beings deserve life.
The rest of him, however, is probably going "f**k those useless f**king c**ts".
@@CynicalWarlock Like the elder gods had to know the Liu Kang was literally HIM. Bro only losses to his mentor, and you could probably make the argument that he pulls his punches up until Raiden was forced to kill him because Liu Kang was doing that badass fire fist that he almost killed Shao with in which Raiden had to use his powers to protect himself from the powerful warrior. People hate Raiden for that scene, but I feel like he was doing the best he could. The elder gods are to blame for the whole situation, not Raiden. He's just playing by their shitty and vague rules in order to protect his realm
@@oldjebidiahbrown2454 except he's also being played by Shinnok. Everything regarding the "He must win!" Message in MK9 getting misinterpreted so often by Raiden is in fact a deliberate result of Shinnok interfering with the message's transmission. That it also served Kronika's ends for Raiden and Liu Kang to fight each other as she would seem to pursue in every other iteration of their timeline is just a cherry on top of her proverbial sundae.
Yes yes he does, Kung Lao has a line that their wishes to have an adventure will reach the Elder Gods' ears, Liu Kang explains that he was once stronger than the elder gods because he was a titan so yes they exist unfortunately
@@an0nym0us_slash35 "Unfortunately, lol. :))
the two elder gods we meet(Cetrion and Shinnok) are sketchy, this is consistent with the lore.
Weird, huh..
It was stated in Mythologies that the reason Shinnok was so invested in taking Earthrealm for himself was because of the amount of life and resources they withheld. So much so that he even remodeled many of Hell’s landscapes to mirror Earthrealm technology. You see this in the prison stage, and in various levels of the Netherrealm in MKM. I feel both your theories could work though.
Life and resources, makes sense.... Right up until you ask what Shinnok could possibly have a use for those. Why would an Elder God need physical resources so abundant on Earthrealm? He's a deity; not once do we ever witness Shinnok have need for food, drink, sleep, or other physical items beyond the amulet he squirreled the lion's share of his power in to. The only answer to this for which I can speculate is that the abundant life you mentioned correlates directly to an abundance of potential worshippers, and that Shinnok (along with, by extension, other deities) are fueled in some way by those that worship them.
@@kylenguyen7371mkx pretty much answers that he wanted the jinsei
@@olofacosta3192 okay, but..., *why*? What's the point? What does he get from it? Did he even need it before he was cast out of the Elder Gods' pantheon pre-Mythologies?
@@kylenguyen7371 well seemingly just for power. The jinesi plus his amulet should make him more powerful than his fellow gods but ofcourse mkx disproved that theory with abysmal writing. In my head Canon? I would say Shinnok wants to restructure reality. Perhaps in a fashion similar to Odin in God of war ragnarok, Shinnok knows that there is a reality, a multiverse beyond the base mortal kombat verse and he believes he could reach it with the power of the jinsei(this is ofcourse in a world WITHOUT Kronika and the nonsense titan BS). I think that makes the most sense in making Shinnok a villain unique from Shao Kahn and Onaga as he's somewhat of a mad God but also more knowledgeable than possible everyone else
Yes, I remember that detail about him terraforming the Netherrealm to look more like Earthrealm. To me, that makes even more sense, since it proves my point that Earth is the most valuable of the 6 realms. Whether Shinnok wanted it just for power's sake or some other purpose is up to interpretation.
Personally, I'm not a fan of power for power's sake, cause that's already the motivation of plenty of characters.
This would've worked well in the OG timeline, but ever since kronika was introduced into the series, the elder gods seem to become obsolete, especially in MK1 where Liu Kang and the titan variants are the ones calling the shots
Titan variants?? I'm not even gonna finish mk12 now.
@CynicalWarlock sorry for spoiling that, I thought you already finished the story
@@roam980 No worries, I had sub-0 expectations (pun not intended), anyway.
Will still finish it for research purposes.
My Headcannon: Elder gods still higher than titans, because elder gods spawn the cosmic titans.
I don't think the elder gods are mentioned more than 3 times in MK1
an idea I had for the elder gods being good: Maybe the one being cannot be killed in any permanent way. Each of the realms still live as fractured parts of the one being, and any time an elder god steps foot in one of the realms, the fractured one being recognizes them. The reason the elder gods haven't done anything direct in the mk universe is because they are scared of what the one being will do when it notices them. Maybe it would just end everything, or maybe it would make a lesser version of itself to hunt the gods due to being fractured.
That's not far from the truth, actually. There's some dialog in Deception that suggests something like that.
That is kinda implied since the concept of One Being came into existance. Why split it, if you could just kill it? It is the same reason Shinnok was originally imprisoned in his amulet, because you couldn't kill Elder God before MK11. But then it was said that you can indeed kill an Elder God, you can kill beings above Elder Gods (Titans) if you have enough power (power of a "regular" god Raiden and a choosen one) and if you don't, you can behead them so they are permanently out of the game, no way to heal this wound.
Also they do step into Earthrealm at the end of MK9 and nothing happens.
At this point it is better to suggest (via retconn, but not technical one) that the whole story about One Being was fabricated by Elder Gods, it is all lie and we won't know the truth. With MK11 it fits, since we learn about Titans.
It surprises me the Netherrealm decided to introduce a new tier of Gods when they barely developed the ones they already had.
Precisely my point. Same m.o. with the continuity. Each new game is another reboot.
They just wanted Kronika to feel all-powerful. NRS went Marvel and decided that this final boss needed to be the biggest baddest thing ever (so far), so they made a new tier of existence for her. Above Elder Gods, and (per Dominic Ciancolo's words) above the One Being.
@@maxmercurythemm827 Yes, I've said it before, NRS/WB wanted to capitalize on the (already dying) multiverse trend. Everyone's tryna find a more complex rationale for Kronika's introduction, but it really is that simple.
It's keeping up with the Jones'.
@@maxmercurythemm827 it doesn't help that she's a "titan" who went "mad", one would say a "mad titan" seeking to "balance the universe"
Stop me if you heard this one before
At the rate the story of MK is going, this fan theory will probably be better than anything the game's developers can think up. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, everyone.
Merry new Christmas year.
I grew up playing the older games despite being born in 97, Bi Han clapped Elder God cheeks in his game than got clapped by a dude he clapped twice in his own game. Since then, I figured the Elder God's aren't really fighters just deities. They are powerful but like Zuckerberg Luthor says, it's mostly just for show. They're not really all powerful or all good, which makes sense if you look into Greek mythologies where God's are flawed, cruel, deceitful, and served to maintain their power.
Yeah, that's the direction I was headed. Greek gods are a good comparison.
I so badly wanted MKX to be about Dark Raiden starting and waging a war against the Elder Gods for the nonsense they put him through in MK 2011. Cage and family could have still taken Shinnok, but having that overarching war would have upped the stakes further. Then MK 11 could have been about what destroying the Elder Gods did to the balance of the realms and how the world is still affected by the Elder Gods despite them being erased (like how Dio still affects the JJBA timeline after his demise in Stardust Crusaders). Sadly, there’s just wasted potential and a multiverse of endless reboots. Sigh.
Interesting rewrite. Dark Raiden was clearly teased for mk11, but they couldn't even stick to that.
I like your idea - since this *is* a rebooted timeline, things shouldn't transpire the same way - that would be missing the point entirely. Imagine going into MKX only to realize Shinnok isn't the main antagonist, this time around; Raiden is.
@@CynicalWarlock We can even take it further - in MK12, since the Elder Gods are destroyed, the One Being is pissed that its food source has been eliminated, so it starts siphoning sustenance from everything and everyone in every realm. Everyone realises they're screwed, and eventually comes to the realisation that Raiden's the Big Bad. Then everyone comes together to destroy a coked-up, roided-out Elder God Raiden, and *then* we can segue into MK1's timeline reboot with a human Raiden, and a new start. That would have been awesome. The main story points would be that there are things (Armageddon, the existence of evil) that cannot be avoided in ANY rebooted timeline, and that a timeline can't exist without an antagonist. Even though Armageddon plays out differently in every timeline, it must happen. The balance of good and evil can't exist without some sort of evil.
@@AshleyKampta2 Definitely more of a reason to reboot the timeline.
Yesss!
Dark Raiden is goated. Easily my favorite version of him.
Especially the "infamous Raiden" design in MK11 with the red lightning. Love the design, and he just kicks *ass* and takes *no* prisoners. He's sick of everyone's shit and ready to go to absolute extremes, which can be fun and interesting.
Making the Elder Gods good guys is tricky but honestly this could be a Warhammer/Cthulhu Mythos/SCP Scenario where The One Being is so goddamn powerful and so beyond what anything in the verse could handle that the Elder Gods are just doing "The Best They Can" given their circumstances.
Maybe The One Being or Entities like it just need 110% attention to forcefully keep out of the realms and that what we interpret as its will working through the MK Villains like Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, Shao Kahn, Daegon, Onaga, etc. is just the remnants of its will that could leak in from the Elder Gods protection.
That's if they're "Good"
Not bad. You can then escalate it to the point where the elders actually have to get involved and challenge this unholy, fiendishly coordinated alliance of all the bad guys, with the player wondering if it's too late.
You can also give characters like Shao Kahn a bit of an enemy-of-my-enemy moment, where he realizes who's pulling the strings and temporarily allies with the good guys to keep the One Being from winning. Perhaps even a scenario where he conquers all the realms but, as a final twist, chooses not to merge them.
I like this idea, it makes sense and you actually gave Shinnok a personality that's more than a moustache twirling villian.
His portrayal always bothered me the most. Shao Kahn and Onaga both work as bloodthirsty conquerors, because of their histories and culture. But Shinnok's a freakin Elder God - there should be a compelling reason why he turned evil, and a mega-story to tell there.
@CynicalWarlock but is there not already an explanation? Is he not the antithesis to Cetrion who is his twin sister?
@@doriancoreyscloset421 That's a recent retcon that adds practically nothing to his motivation. He does evil cause he was designed to be evil.
That's about as much as we knew about him before.
@CynicalWarlock I mean isn't that enough? It is fiction, afterall. Why does everything need a backstory to the backstory of things that really aren't real?
@@doriancoreyscloset421 By that logic, nothing needs a backstory. And to your point, we don't need to know that Batman is Bruce Wayne and that his parents' deaths caused him to become a vigilante.. but it does make the character richer and the story more interesting.
With regards to these stories not being real, I always say that stories are a way to use lies to tell the truth. As in, the actual events and characters are untrue, but what they capture and convey is very real.
Or you could just make em evil, yeah.
Only at the beginning of the video, so I dunno if this gets brought up, but In Deception there’s a backwards voice line that explains that the Elder Gods don’t interfere with the affairs of the realms cuz they’re scared it will awaken the One Being
Didn't get into that, but yeah there are some interesting lines in that game (albeit questionable, in terms of canonicity), like "Shao Kahn, Lucifer, and Raiden are of the same race of beings".
The elder gods literally are scared of their creations hence why they didn't do anything when onaga/shao kahn threatened all the realms.
It's one of the only things that makes sense.
The Elder gods would have been extremely useful against the gay stripper samurai man, both of the only 2 playable Elder gods, the 2 wizard dudes, the scaley dragon boi, the volcanic monster man, and the bald Karen of time. But nah, they just say screw it and be lazy LOL
Mortal Kombat - Honest Character Descriptions.
@@CynicalWarlock Yep
I wish we got to actually see the elder gods as more important characters. The closest we got to having that was cetrion but even then she wasn’t very relevant in the main events of the mk11 story. Maybe if they could actually have a hand in more important parts of the MK series then we could have more unique story this time around without going to timelines. Plus I bet they’d make for fun playable characters.
It's so telling that the first game where we actually get to see an elder god, in the flesh (apart from Shinnok), is the same game in which the elder gods are upstaged by the titans and become even less relevant.
The elder gods seem like primordial beings. They aren’t good or bad, they’re above that. Why would a human care about the opinion of an ant? For example cetrion is the goddess of life, virtue and light. She resides over virtue but she doesn’t have to be virtuous. Like Aphrodite is the goddess of love but she acts selfishly and hatefully towards humans in myths a lot of the time. So it makes sense to me that they don’t give a shit about mortals until the mortals challenge their authority. The Christian god let’s the devil exist and sends angels to do his work. The elder gods let shinnok exist and send the lesser gods to do their work.
I think you are right in saying, the elder gods don’t care until the threat of the realms merging is actually attainable. I think they care more about balance than righteousness, kronikas whole motivation is balance, cetrion agreed and shinnok was a tool in kronikas balance. I think shinnok wants to defeat the one being once and for all which is why he is shown challenging it to a fight, unlike onaga who became the one being.
The issue is that the elder gods cause the problem and let others suffer for it. For example they told scorpion they will revive his clan If he took out onaga cause they were to scared to handle him theirself. Then when scorpion didn't do it they brought back his clan as the undead
@@schemar17 so? Wait till you hear what Zeus and Hera would do to mortals 😂 God made it destiny by prophecy that Judas would betray Jesus, then sent Judas to hell for betraying Jesus. Gods act above mortal ideals all the time. It’s what makes them Gods.
@@parrisxsummersyes I know but the thing is God of the Bible is just as evil as the Greek gods and elder gods. There's a pattern here when it comes to gods
@@schemar17 yeap gods are all dictators
I touched on much the same point regarding Cetrion during the discussion on Warlock's community post, and he alludes to that in this video as well. The gods are not bound by mortal notions of morality, especially not Cetrion. Virtuous does not always correlate to moral behavior, and the entire notion of morality is in many regards a social construct that we as humans have adopted to govern acceptable behaviors. Aliens and divine entities are not required, nor should they be expected, to adhere to human notions of morality. Raiden is, narratively, the exception to the rule in Mortal Kombat and is heard in some MK11 fight intro dialogue cautioning Fujin against the very same attachment to mortals that he demonstrated in games past. In fact, Raiden seems concerned that Fujin's different approach towards humanity may make him more attached than Raiden ever was, and that it may compromise Fujin's ability to conduct himself appropriately as a a god.
Loved the take on Shinnok and Raiden. I always saw Shinnok as kind of a neutral-turned-evil type of guy rather than just a simple villain as well. In regards to the One Being, I think its kind of clear that he was inspired by Chronos from Greek Mythology and the Elder Gods kind of beat him because they didnt want to get swallowed along with all of existence. Also, your take on Earthrealm is almost spot-on. In the MK Anhialation light-novels it is told to us that Outworld embodies the concept of death and Earthrealm embodies the concept of life itself, thus merging the two would cause two dualities to fuse and allow Shao Kahn to become a threat to everyone. Shinnok probably took a liking in protecting it because of that (kind of ironic he would have turned into the ruler of Hell and wish death upon everyone later)
Exactly my thoughts. Shinnok works really well as an almost tragic character and a victim of cosmic irony.
The dychotomy of Outworld and Earthrealm is also something I should've realized sooner. The 6 realms come in pairs: Order and Chaosrealms, Netherrealm (hell) and Edenia (heaven/paradise), which leaves Outworld and Earthrealm.
@@CynicalWarlock yep, u got it
I just don't understand how MK's pantheon works. Elder Gods can't die but Titans who are more powerful can? And demi-gods are just elemental powers? What about real Elementals like Tremor and Blaze? Then there is the One Being who can't do anything despite being all powerful? This seems overly complicated.
It's what happens when you keep retconning old lore and adding new stuff with every new game.
@@CynicalWarlockyep, these new writers think their ideas are so much better and differently different instead of just sticking with and trying to flesh out the 30 year old established lore
@@zackxeno1019 Established lore that, itself, is underdeveloped. But no, why flesh out existing lore, when you can enact the laziest Chronos interpretation, in a universe that has little to do with Greek mythology.
12:51 Was not expecting to get credited here. A welcome surprise, to be sure.
It was an engaging discussion.
TW: TL;DR- I know this video is mostly about Shinnok but I GOTTA vent about Cetrion for a hot minute
>I love that thumbnail. I think Cetrion sucks way more than Kronika because Cetrion in both ways the events of MK11 played out is presented as a desperate, pathetic stooge of Kronika that needed to sacrifice herself whether her mother won or not. I've said it many, many times on other peoples' videos, the main problem with this character is that we're told that she's a goddess of virtue but we never actually see her doing anything good, really. Here's my way on how to fix this: introduce her in MKX discreetly aiding Raiden and co. in repelling her brother's invasion of Earthrealm but we the audience don't know her personal stakes in the matter. Raiden would confront her on this and she makes, without elaborating, the request of him to simply not kill Shinnok when they defeat him. Later on, when Raiden DOES kill Shinnok after he pulls him out of the Jinsei, Cetrion appears and mourns his headless body. Then KRONIKA appears and Cetrion reacts in fear before Kronika spouts off some dialogue about how her "golden balance of light and dark" was shattered upon Shinnok's death and forces Cetrion to submit to her mother. There you go; actual motivations and the audience would have been shocked at the loss of a character they thought was an ally to our heroes. In MK11 that shock would have been reflected in Raiden and co. finding themselves pitted against someone who once helped them.
>A few notes on mythology;
-The idea that the current gods are in power because they overthrew the older set of deities which were evil is nothing new; the Greek Olympians did it to their Titans. It's also nothing new that these usurper gods themselves are hardly better morally than their predecessors, as the Greek Olympians themselves are full of pride and lust.
-Pan Ku, westernized as Pangu, in Chinese mythology was the first man/being to ever exist; when he was born he separated Yin and Yang (Earth and Sky) from each other and when he died his body decayed into the substances that made up the physical universe; mountains, clouds, rivers, oceans, trees, stars, etc. This seems like what the One Being was based on.
>There are some interactions that give depth to Cetrion's character, if at all, and I will extend these conclusions to the rest of the Elder Gods:
I. When Raiden finds out the truth about her:
CETRION: Your actions have irrevocably altered Kronika's balance of light and dark. Shinnok's decapitation was the cap stone.
RAIDEN: You are a paragon of virtue. You should wish evil vanquished!
CETRION: I abide my mother's will.
RAIDEN: You were begotten by Kronika.
CETRION: As was my brother, Shinnok. The darkness to my light. *Nature demands equilibrium. Balance is perfection.* You have stepped out of your role, made that balance impossible. That's why the New Era holds no place for you.
II. When Raiden shows Jax the truth:
RAIDEN: Kronika's promises to you are a cruel deception. She is the mother of Shinnok, the architect of your revenant enslavement.
JAX: But... no. She's Cetrion's mother.
RAIDEN: Cetrion is Shinnok's sister. In Kronika's New Era, Shinnok will be the darkness to balance Cetrion's light.
JAX: *...Which'll only happen if the realms keep on fighting each other.*
III. When Fire God Liu Kang confronts Cetrion:
CETRION: You match me step for step.
*Cetrion eats shit from FGLK's lightning bolt*
LIU KANG: *Because your heart is not in the battle, Cetrion.* You fight for your mother's vision. But as a goddess of virtue you know that her desired balance is folly.
IV. And finally, this pre-fight intro between Cetrion and Raiden:
RAIDEN: Did Shinnok know what you know?
CETRION: He embraced our mother's design.
RAIDEN: *Willingly? Or was he compelled?*
Let me make some conclusions:
1. If the Elder Gods intend that the realms STAY separate, then they must also intend, with their rite of Mortal Kombat, that the realms keep on fighting each other. (see II)
2. If Cetrion despite being a goddess of virtue (see I) can CHOOSE to not be virtuous and instead do *what she knows to be wrong* based on the will of another (see III) then that suggests that:
-i. Elder Gods have free will, unlike how most aloof deities are depicted in fiction.
-ii. The Greek concept of daimon is a being/personage that embodies a metaphysical thing (love, justice, war, etc.) Cetrion is clearly NOT this since she can choose otherwise; therefore virtue is her job and not her being. An Elder God can rule over something...but not be the source of it. This makes them rather superfluous. The tension in Plato's Euthyphro as to whether something is virtuous/pious because it is praised by the gods or because it is commanded by them has an answer here; people can be virtuous with or without her.
-iii. Since they are supposed to parallel each other, if Cetrion is not necessarily virtuous at all times, then perhaps Shinnok *does not necessarily need to be evil.* Let's take what Cetrion said in (IV) at face value, that Shinnok wanting to free the One Being was intended by Kronika all along as his role; if this was his motivation, then to answer Raiden's question, it was willing on his part, albeit as a result of the circumstances Kronika put him in when she made him.
3. Now here's some problems:
-Wouldn't Shinnok freeing the One Being upset the balance of Light and Dark that Kronika wants? There would be no realms to balance if he did.
-One of the writers, whom I think was Dominic Cianciolo, claims that Titans like Kronika were above the One Being. WTF, right?
--To give them the benefit of the doubt, here's how I would reconcile this; let's imagine that Shinnok freeing the One Being is a "win condition" for the dark side that was intended by Kronika. For this to make sense I must graciously assume that after the One Being devours all of the Elder Gods, a titan like Kronika can somewhat survive and rewind time to make everything new again. Maybe that's what that writer meant.
5:45 Elder Gods: *Yes.* 🗿
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I think Kronika didn't intend for Shinnok to win and awaken the One Being; she just wanted people to keep fighting. This is just another way that "titans" introduce problems for the established lore, because the tournament was a way to minimize conflic, avoid unnecessary bloodshed and prevent disruptive cosmic change; yet Kronika shits on all of that by trying to maintain a certain level of conflict and violence for.. reasons.
Introducing Cetrion in MKX should've been an absolute must, to avoid doing it in mk11 and immediately turn her evil, tarnishing the reputation of the elder gods even further.
All these TED talks to try and rationalize the most superficial of decisions: the whole titan/Kronika plotline was mandated to capitalize on the (already dying) multiverse trend.
Imagine an infinite regress where all the elder gods were once mortal but gained powers like Fire God Liu Kang. They are not infallible and each one is their own character with their own flaws. They gained their powers from previous Godly beings who they themselves were once human and ascended from other Gods etc to the point where not even the current Elder Gods know how the universe was created and are speaking in a mix of historical and mythological hearsay. What if their united strength is what lets them control everything, but individually, they are each just around Fire God Liu Kang level.
Like the Aesir in GOW Ragnorok
I love that idea. It allows you to keep surprising the audience, without it becoming cheap.
First you think history is a lie and the elders know the truth, then you realize even the elders don't know the truth, and things can go in any direction from there.
I always made comparisons with the MK universe to Dungeons and Dragons. Mainly for the fantasy angle. It definitely went from a martial arts game to something much deeper (good or bad).
Good *and* bad, yes.
11:50 Point of clarification, here; the tournament was originally controlled by the Shaolin, not Shang Tsung. We see as early as the original game that the Mortal Kombat tournament was wrested from Shaolin hands after Shang Tsung nominated Goro to fight as his champion proxy against The Great Kung Lao. Liu Kang's entire narrative during the original game culminates with a return of the tournament to the Shaolin.
True. Plenty of minor retcons in the original trilogy too.
Please give us a video on how Reiko fits into your power system. Please🥺
I might make a short one and also include him in longer power system-related videos, but I've pretty much replied my thoughts on him in our past comments.
@CynicalWarlock you should do a video on how Reiko SHOULD have been Shao Kahn.
Think about it. Shao Kahn looks to die in mk3 right? I mean the guy literally exploded and he just comes back in deadly alliance with no explanation. Well here's a theory
Reiko turns up not long after Shao's failed invasion of Earth. Due to his immense skill and tactical insight he is welcomed as the third in command for Shinnoks army. While under the brotherhood of shadows Reiko learns some of it's dark magics.
After Shinnok's invasion fails(due to quan chi stealing the amulet) Reiko who in truth is Shao Kahn in disguise reclaims his title on the vacant outworld throne.
In truth Shao was meant to go the netherrealm, but due to his ambitious conquest that weakened the barriers between realms he was able to survive,albeit much weaker.
Due to his time under the brotherhood, Shao learns to clone (same technique Shinnok uses in armageddon) and hides to regain his strength. Havik using the heart of Onaga resurrects the fake Shao not knowing their is a real one out there. The fake Shao than reclaims the identity of Reiko waiting to surpass his counterpart
You should make your own rewrite of mortal kombat, like the4thsnake, i'm really interested in your interpretation of mortal kombat
I have, like, 3 of em in my head.
Don't think I ever watched the 4th Snake's one. Now I'm curious.
Honestly didn't even know the elder gods were anything but a macguffin until this video
They kinda still are.
@@CynicalWarlock lol, you made them actually sound pretty interesting
I don’t know much about MK but this reminds me of the book of Enoch. How Lucifer made the angels bind themselves to him in oaths that they would rebel against god. This makes sense for how the elders gods in this game operate also considering how many of the rebelling angels wanted to take over humanity, procreate with the women, and were described as giants. Also Lucifer was banished to hell not comparing him to Shinnok’s character but it seems like Shinnok is acting out in allegiance to a powerful demonic figure and probably has more in common with a villain like Spawn. But again I have no idea lol.
Yeah, and the angel-human offspring were called Nephilim, right?
I also like the comparison with Spawn. Could take some inspiration from there.
I don’t know much about the elder gods but they must be consulted.
I don't take a piss without consulting the elder gods.
@@CynicalWarlockha, that’s too good😂
excuse me as I pause at 5:59
You're wild for this lol
Elder gyatt.
Would, alot of days
Greetings, fellow men of culture.
Honestly, I think it was obvious that the Elder Gods were never purely benevolent. They seem more based on gods of old, like Norse and Greek, who had their own interest that they held over the lives of mortals.
In my headcanon, what the Elder Gods fear is the mortal potential to surpass them.
We literally see Liu Kang and others box Cetrion and Shinnok regularly and consistently come out on top.
To me, this doesn’t mean that the Elder Gods are weak, but more rather that mortals just naturally have the potential, possibly being born from the One Being themselves, to surpass the gods.
This would make it smart for the Elder Gods, rather than indiscriminately wiping out mortals, which would have unintended consequences, they decided to create a hierarchy to limit the mortal perspective of their own strength. And assign demigods to every realm to monitor the mortals, and enforce the hierarchy.
That's actually a cool explanation, and I like the comparison to Norse mythology a lot. Heck, even Greek mythology, where the gods literally envied mortals.
It also makes sense (despite some inevitable contrivances) that they'd create and use the Mortal Kombat tournament to manipulate the power level of the realms, and keep everyone from getting too strong. Earthrealm keeps getting beat up because.. well, it's just stronger than other realms.. so the Elder Gods just.. you know.. take their sweet time to intervene, whenever there's a catastrophe happening there.
5:05 If the One Being returns he will EAT existence itself.. Killing (kinda?) that thing was a good idea
Yes, the official lore states that, quite clearly. This is just me entertaining different origins and plot twists.
I like this a lot, I’d love to see a version of them being good
Noted.
Really appreciate the lore speculation on mk. The story could be great but WB is kinda the worst
Kinda.
8:23
I doubt that we could define the Orderrealm, Chaosrealm or even Netherrealm for that matter as "easy pickings..."
Liu Kang: Shao Kahn! You come to earthrealm again!? Why are you so keen on invading our home? Is it because of our incredibly vast resources and diverse biomes?
Shao Kahn: No, it's because your realm is the only realm not entirely inhabited by psychopaths, schizophrenics, and sado masochists...
Liu Kang: ... Wait what?
Shao Kahn vs Orderrealm
Shao Khan: Seidans! I challenge you to Mortal Komba-"
Hotarou: "UNACCEPTABLE!!!"
Shao Khan: "Wha-?!?"
Hotarou: "You dare challenge the Orderrealm to Mortal Kombat when you haven't even filled out the required paper work!?!? We need a proper passport and means of identification, statement of means and reason for being here, 100 personal surveys, 100 pop quizzes on Orderrealm and Outworlds historical information, a census for all of your citizens including all the hairs on each and every one of their heads! All of this IN TRIPLICATE, And that's not even the first PRE-PREPARATION SEGMENT!"
Shao Khan: "Uhhh..."
Hotarou: "Secondly, is that a food caravan?"
Shao Khan: "It, well it's rations for the journey-"
Hotarou: "Unacceptable! Unacceptable! UNACCEPTABLE! One Outworld slug would destroy the entire eco-system of the Orderrealm! ORDER GUARD! ATTEND!!!"
Order Guard immediately demolish the caravan.
Shao Khan: "MY CABBAGES!"
Brilliant.
Have a heart thingy for that Avatar reference.
Fantastic work once again, my friend.
You make a lot of sense here, though I personally still like the lore detail of the Tournament existing to spare more lives.
And I'm keen for the next one, whether you're playing devil's advocate for the gods, or doing something new!
Yeah, that's the downside of this kind of portrayal - the tournament and the gods and the cool dragon logo, which players have such reference for, they all become a symbol of callousness and betrayal. So this is good for an elseworlds story, but maybe not the main interpretation.
@@CynicalWarlock Yeah, I think it could have been good, but it wasn't the original purpose of Mortal Kombat.
Watching enough of the 4th Snake is getting me to think that the NetherRealm era and all its retcons have been bad for the series, its story and its characters.
Btw, I do hope you go for the angle of the gods being good. I'd just like to see how you pitch it, and inevitably convince us all. XD
@@robertminnie782 I'll definitely think about the 'good god' pitch.
And the 4th Snake is right; I'd say the writing quality started to decline with MK: Armageddon and dove off a cliff in the NetherRealm era.
@@CynicalWarlock For real. I just got to the campaign of MKX and it was generic at best. Definitely disappointing after that MK9 cliffhanger I saw so many years ago. Was especially disappointed on how little they used Kotal Kahn, who was one of the new Kombatants catching my eye the most.
And it looks like he and the others aren't being treated any better in MK11... but I guess I'll play that one too, at least out of obligation.
@@robertminnie782 This is one very good thing that NetherRealm do, which is create some interesting/cool characters, like Kotal Kahn and Erron Black. The problem is they don't do anything interesting with them, or they actively portray them badly. Kotal basically came off as an indecisive coward, in MKX, while Erron, despite his cool factor, is a nothing-character.
Another problem with MKX (and this whole era of MK) is that it's a rehash of the old stuff. The same plots progress in the same ways and end up in the same points, which strikes me as missing the point of a reboot.
And I think "morbid curiosity" is a mildly better reason to play mk11. "Obligation" is not gonna cut it.
There is so many inconsistencies going on with the Mortal Kombat universe I stopped giving a crap about it after the MK9 Sindel disaster. I liked the story of the MK1 reboot but if they want to fix the lore for the Elder Gods they can start by sticking to one timeline moving forward. But I have a feeling that nothing is going to change because people buy Mortal Kombat for the name not for the story.
MK is seen as a nostalgia product, which is why they keep cramming every new title with a crap-ton of references to old games, and retelling the same story in increasingly preposterous ways, over and over again.
It's a tough animal to figure out, because a big part of the buyer base is casuals who play the story mode once, then forget about the game; there's also a sizeable subset that play the game competitively, and another audience still who buys it for the sake of nostalgia and to own every mk game.
NetherRealm are stuck spreading their resources too thin, to try and cover all of these 3 demographics, with heavier emphasis on the nostalgia part, at the expense of everything else, which is understandable.
It's also wrong.
If you think the Elder Gods are weird, don’t even get started with the Titans
Non-canon, as far as I'm concerned.
Titans 🤝 Sindel retcon
arent the elder gods super underpowered now? since Liu Kang is Titan level, equal to kronika, which is above elder god level?
They were underpowered *before*. And as soon as mk11 introduced titans, they became even less relevant.
Doesn't help that MK11 fucked up the cosmologgy of MK even more by adding Titans into the mix. Cetrion and Shinnok being the children of Kronika brings more problems and fucks up the hierarchy even more. But we don't even need go that far, Blaze as the culmination of Armageddon is also kind of a dicey concept to work around, because it brings into question the whole stability of the "system" the Elder Gods try to uphold.
MK lore is a crapshot omfg
MK titans are the textbook definition of 'superfluous'. MK already has so much under-serviced lore; you don't need to add more to it. Especially in the pantheon of gods department. Titans being a thing doesn't add anything to the story; neither does Cetrion and Shinnok being brothers and opposites, communicated in such a verbal, ham-fisted way.
@@CynicalWarlock Agreed in all aspects. Heck, I'd argue even Raiden and Fujin are hella undercooked. We don't even really know that much of the gods of the other realms, or why or how they have or don't have any. There's a spring of things that could be done by just staying in the lower echelon of power creep, but ever since time travel was introduced in MK9, I'd argue the writing team hasn't been able to settle on any given direction for the story. We got robbed of Dark Raiden shenanigans in MK11, and they did so in the scummiest way possible via a deliberate retcon.
Good job, much less full of gaps than my own head cannon, and netherealms for that matter
I hate gaps.
And then there comes Mk11 with Kronika and ruins everything
Indubitably.
I never like the idea of titans in mythology of MK, i prefer the old one where they're more to asian mythology instead of mix with greece
This.
Too many ingredients in the soup.
Your work deserves MORE views. Subscribed
🎉
Appreciate it. You're badass.
Issue is These Elders gods don't look intimidating,strong or someone to take serous ,they say oh yeah i did this, this and this and when you see them in action is just them getting violated,like jhonny put up a very good fight against shinnok (a human fucking being)now imagine jhonny if he was serious and actually took shit serously and stopped messing around Shinnok would have been his bitch same thing with his daughter,Shinnok is also related to Kronica and Centrion which means all of the elder godd are related they're basically Kronicas children,Centrion got clapped when at her peak got beamed by raiden,Fujin,Scorpion and sub zero they manage to hurt her badly , these me are like spider man level or lower physically but in terms of hax prop scale higher.And also in term of writting they've just boring.
This is why making the elder gods a damn family only creates problems and inconsistencies. They literally added that for the sake of pointless trivia.
@@CynicalWarlock The worst thing is,shinnok is the strongest and yet got easily clapped,this is why I've never liked nether realm studio like when it comes to writting these people don't know jack shit .
I think what your going at is a fun aspect to how the elder gods are actully kinda dispicable, but I have a sagession.
What if Cetrion is the one other elder gods that is secretly conflicted due to how Shinock's actions but like Raiden and Fujin she secretly come to love humanity because she particularly witness the good and bad it showed to the Realms however she could be the glue to the stances to safegaurd Earthrealm being the one component to help the realms the right way if they understood each other.
I don't know, just a thought.
I'm definitely all for making Cetrion a good guy, especially since NRS never actually portrayed her as the paragon of virtue that she supposedly is.
@@CynicalWarlock
True it's just wasted Potential due to lack of storytelling of her character.
I like the idea that she's this one other god that has virtue to a degree, but is shadowed by the influence of less kind gods, thus gaining a positive change arc due to the efforts of Earthrealm's means to survive.
@@thebluewind5733 That would've been a way better end to her arc in MK11, whereby she starts to gain sympathy for the mortals and turns against Kronika, before the end.
This is one of the best MK lore reimaginings I’ve heard
Thank you.
Here's my idea for a new game: shinnok's father, Taibos the forget, comes to kill the elder gods and claim what he believes is his (all realms, tribes and the hourglass). Luckily the eldest of the gods sends Moriel a literal battle angel who never shows his face. While he's willing to help Raiden, Kitana, Sonya, Cassie and the other good guys to stop shang tsung, kano, shoa Khan etc. (who are helping Taibos) he often clashes heads with them for several reasons; he hates Jacqui and Kung Lao's attitude, Cassie constantly hitting on him, most of the clans morals, he finds Raiden and Liu kang too prideful and he thinks Sonya, Johnny and Jax are all bad parents. But he likes kotal and saves cetrion when Taibos tries to kill her for failing Kronika. His main mission is to permanently stop Taibos even if it means ending the tournaments, destroying the hourglass and closing all portals to the realms forever.
You had me at Cassie hitting on a god. You understand this character better than NetherRealm do.
I gotta say, a team up with a god sounds like a cool story.
P.S.
A hooded battle angel who never shows his face reminds me of angels from the Diablo series.
I know the original Mortal Kombat lore. it stated that the elder gods do not enter the realms in fear of waking the one being.
Makes them pretty useless, then.
Another banger
All I got is bangers.
More please.
More is more.
1:52 it’s such a old but good quote
Right? Took me a while to figure out what that meant.
It's kinda funny back in Deadly Alliance, they didn't give af when the Deadly Alliance murdered Liu Kang, the very guy who saved their butts from Shinnok a game ago. Like without Liu Kang, The One Being would have been brought back by now.
Good point. Wasn't the champion supposed to be protected til the next tournament? Typical elder cogs.
@@CynicalWarlock that's why Raiden wanted to jump in and save Liu Kang because that's how it was supposed to go, personal attachments aside. I guess with Shao Kahn allegedly out of the way, there was no need for assurance. Then Onaga came back from the dead and now they have no champion to protect them.
@@mortalballgt52 Oopsie.
Another nice mortal kombat video from cynical warlock hope in the future you talk about martial art style or fighting style of each mortal kombat characters with maybe based on characters nationality
Could dig into that, especially since games like Deception actually assigned real-world fighting styles to each character.
You sounded familiar in previous videos but I realized in this one that you also are Lonny Breaux, which is cool because I like the Rick and Morty videos too
My voice is taking over the internet.
[evil laugh]
Yknow the elder gods aside ive always been curious how gods like Raiden and Fujin came about
I kid you not, I just started wondering that today.
If demi gods are the offspring of gods and mortals,maybe gods are the offspring of elder gods and mortals ? Seems unlikly,but thats honestly the best guess i have,outside of "They were there from the beginning too"
Oh also while were on the subject of gods, Merry Christmas
@@Джекет It's a solid assumption. I very much prefer a darwinian approach to this stuff, so selective breeding is probably the way to go, instead of saying that the elder gods just willed Raiden into being. That diminishes his character, somehow.
That could also imply that the were maaaaany more generations of gods than we know.
Merry X-mas.
Alright warlock what u got I been waiting
I got the goods.
2006 Being 10 years old playing Armageddon hearing of these mysterious elder gods was so cool then 2019 seeing how lame they actually were ugh
When you kill the mystery, you kill the attraction.
They really should've just said that if the elder gods interfere too much the one being will be brought back to life
Simple and effective.
That still means you should include them into the narrative, at some point, when things get bad.
You are completely right on how any story would be nullified if the gods beings were good guys. Not that you can't tell as story with that idea but that Mortal Kombat isn't trying to do that.
This is a problem for any fiction that has active gods. How can the story justify any world ending threat when they exist. Which is usual why they either have gods be evil or neutral or be vague on the whole matter.
Also the Mortal Kombat creation myth is pretty cool. Pretty unique compared to other fictional creation myths. And I would like to see your version of how you would make them good.
Exactly, and the devs made the elder gods neutral, vague *and* evil, throughout the various games, which is bonkers to me.
@@CynicalWarlock as you said at the end of the video the reason they are bad is because the developers just didn't know what they wanted to do.
Imagine if you were making the first MK game (no not the remake) and you were tasked to write the story. First off you probably weren't a writer you were a programmer and second you were making a fighting game. A genre where a story isn't the main reason your players play them. So, you write just enough lore and story so it makes passing sense. But then people get invested and now there is an expectation to write better. And then that spirals into being restricted by what was first written.
Rebooting the series would give that opportunity but then they still restricted themselves to what came before.
I think a lot of your suggestions make a lot of sense. I wonder if there are fighting games that have a more coherent story from the start.
@@Knight1029 That's basically what happened, the scope of the lore was very limited in the first game, then they kept adding to it and implementing minor retcons that were seemingly harmless at first, but that later grew into a bunch of inconsistencies that keep the series down, a bit.
As for other fighting games' stories, I'm an ignoramus. I also don't expect I'd find it in a game where the main antagonist is named 'Bison'.
@@CynicalWarlock it does suck though. There is a lot of potential and if someone can pull it together it can be very interesting and enjoyable. Fighting games don't just have to be gameplay focused. They can have good gameplay and story. It's not mutually exclusive.
That Bison comment made me chuckle way too much.
I like the ideas you gave here. The elder gods are… THE WRITERS block. I do however want to share a interesting bit of old lore dating back to deception. When scorpion was in a soulnado swirly thanks to moloch and drahmin😂 he met those gods in the void, even became their champion to find Onaga before he merged all. I don’t think it was just a title, but rather all their being becoming scorpion as it’s power, therefore we never seen them intervene when Armageddon came, they were already weakened drastically because of their deal. So yes, push and shove the elder gods were in fact both. All they cared for was preserving their own lives ( until NRS decided to bullshit and gave us Titans😢 and a Multiverse after. ) I honestly do believe the one being was wronged.
Yeah, it's such a shame Scorpion's Deception ending isn't canon. It was the single most badass ending I saw, as a kid. I really think you could let both Scorps and Shujinko have a go at Onaga, to keep both of their endings intact, cause they're both cool.
@@CynicalWarlock it is a shame, plus at the time as well too, midway wasn’t really doing well as a company so the budget musta hit hard when they made deception
Like I always tell people: "Trust NO gods. All are thy enemy."
Can't say I've read about many benevolent gods.
This kinda explains why some would follow Shinnok
By the elder gods, Nether realm studio needs to heed such great inspiration from this content creator
You flatter me.
@@CynicalWarlock No, seriously. You patched up all the wasted plotentials. I hope someone from the studio sees this.
@@halogenzawgi9410 Love the 4th Snake reference.
So you may not know this, but there is an explanation for their lack of interference. They exist on the same plane as the One Being, and all of the realms are the One Being's dreams. So any time they interfere, they risk waking it up.
Yeah, I read that, which is better than nothing, except they never reference that as a reason for their lack of involvement, and always cite other crap or no crap. And it still paints them as cowards, cause, like, what are they gonna do? Live outside of the realms for all eternity?
Happy New Year eve & Happy New Year to Cynical Warlock.
Thanks, LilUzi.
Less crappy new year to everyone!
I wonder when we will ever have the one being in a mortal Kombat game.
Based on how he was designed, probably never, since that would mean everything else dies.
Unless you do him my way; then you can have your cake and eat it.
You're really on a roll with these videos huh?
I personally would love to see the elder gods in a good light as well as a bad light, I'm pretty sure the truth would be somewhere in between.
The one being could be an avatar like figure, he could also be essentially an anti-avatar who attempts to remake nature to something unnatural while the elder gods who are the natural forces attempt to stop him. Like Cronos eating his children, only for Zeus to stop him later down the road.
The elders don't seem entirely evil, remember, Raiden was one of them, he took part in defeating the one being, unless his morals changed since then, his rising up against his former leader doesn’t seem like it would be for merely selfish reasons, or for no reason at all. Cetrion is also one of them, and she's not really evil, she just did what she thought at the time most virtuous.
The elder gods omnipotence might not be entirely untrue, it may simply be conditional. It seems to me they might indeed maintain such power, but only so long as they remain in whatever realm they reside in, and are still on this weird council they created. Note their incredible power seems to be diminished when they leave their heavenly realm, but when they take part in the heavenly dimension they can do a great deal. This realm may be bound by unknown laws.
Good comparison to Cronos. Definitely something to work with there.
Raiden wasn't an elder god initially, though. He might not even have existed back during the One Being era. He became an elder briefly after MK4.
The elders' power having limits and conditions is also a good idea; makes writing them a thousand times more viable.
Now i want a vid on blaze
Well at least you didn't ask for one on Mokap.
One more note on what the elders are afraid of, IIRC one lf the reasons they never set foot on the realms is out of fear of it waking somehow waking up the one being
I heard about that; apparently there's some reversed dialogue in Deception that attests to this.
Great vid
Thanks.
In the second movie raiden acrually mentions that shinnock is raidens father wich make their paralells almost vader/luke skywalker esque,
And Shao Kahn was Raiden's brother, right? I think the only interpretation of MK that made that work was Mortal Kombat: Conquest. It didn't even explicitly mention that Raiden and Shao were related, but the parallels were beautifully implemented through the writing, acting and casting.
Don't think that makes sense tbh. In my mind Raiden is a creation of the elder gods so yeah shinnok is technically his father, as are the other elders lol
I’m gonna be honest, I think that the Elder Gods hardly being mentioned in MK1 2023 is good from a story standpoint because I’m tired of them, and I like to think that Liu Kang got tired of Raiden consulting the Elder Gods and decided to just ignore them
That's kind of my point - you either write them into the story properly, or you take them out completely.
I think the biggest problem with the elder gods in MK Is the fact that they & the one being are nigh-omnipotent Deities. which been fine it was dc/marvel since they are the only higher beings in the verse it basically kill any plot if elder gods were smart they 1-shot any real threat because they are the only nigh-omnipotence beings in the series yes you can also say the titans are nigh-omnipotence but we don't know, I do like your head Cannon about Shinnok in my mind I always thought Shinnok just want protect earth realm from being merged in his own twisted way, The one being feeds on the essences of the elder gods, So it was even
I suppose that's why they introduced the titans, to solve the problem you mentioned, and have a more elaborate pantheon. But this just over-stuffs the lore. A better approach would be to place some limitations to the elder gods' powers, like they lose some of it when they descend down on the realms, or something.
@@CynicalWarlock Same, I don't Mind MK Having a more elaborate pantheon. but MK's pantheon has go like this,
The One Being (Oneness Deity) [the creator & creation} Supreme being OF MK, Elders Gods, Titans, Gods, Demi-Gods,
The One Being>Elders gods>Titans>Gods.>Demi-gods>Mortals. Simply as that without destroying the pre-existing lore & Cannon, Nigh-Omnipotence is unofficially already a limitation. I think they should put more limitations even the elder gods can't enter the realms because the one being's living essence basically if the elder gods step in the realms the one being will reawaked & end all existence, elder gods exist out of all existence, but they can't defeat the One Being.
@@LilUziClan Yeah, the elders should be able to enter the realms for a limited time, before the One Being starts acting up, or something like that, so they can take a more active role in the story at least in the rare, ultra-climactic points.
I thought Zaterra (before it was merged) and Vaternus were also realms?
Yes, they are. There are 6 main realms, and countless smaller ones.
Personally I'm more invested in the non-elder gods.. I've wanted Herakles in the game for a long time, give us a bow user who is a beefy brawler.
Just put Kung Jin on steroids.
Oddly enough, the fighting game blazeblue actually sets up a good blue print for how and godlike beings should operate in mk.
Heard of it, but not familiar with the series.
@@CynicalWarlock it's... a lot. Both in terms of the amount of content that needs to be memorized, and the nature of it(such as the occasional incest subtext). In the case of the gods pretty much all of them are depicted as schemers who have to navigate each others ambitions and the unspoken rules of the universe. So there's never really a question of why their not doing anything since almost everything you're seeing is the result of their actions.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Mmmm, you had me at "incest".
Incest and scheming.. Sounds like Game of Thrones with gods.
Or just.. you know.. Greek mythology.
@@CynicalWarlock pretty much a mix of both. Just replace every mention of noble bloodline with artificial human, and occasionally have the characters attack the schemers with magic, just to be counterd by more powerful magic.
Nice but how do the titans tie into this
They don't. If you really want to tie them in, you can just have them be the first generation of elder gods, or something.
but frankly, Kronika was only introduced into the series because they wanted a multiverse plotline.
Ok
8:25 and what about Outworld?
It's tough to say what Outworld looked like, back in the day, but most depictions veer towards a semi-barren land.
Netherrealm Studios Hire this man !
And buy me a private jet.
Ok, I still don't get it
If Earthrealm is the biggest chunk of the One Being, and the Elder Gods don't want it coming back
Why do they "hit the snooze button" when Earthrealm is in danger of being merged?
Because they're not that powerful. And if people learn that, it'll be a free for all. No one will respect the tournament anymore and start invading like crazy.
The One Being sounds like the Soul king in Bleach
Just as powerful or as vaguely written?
@@CynicalWarlock vaguely
@@Magnificent2k3 Lol.
Of course they’re not as good as they act, remember what they did to Scorpion in the original timeline? They promised to bring back his family and clan in exchange for him becoming their champion. He did so, and what did they do? They turned them into zombies as a sick joke.
I vaguely remember this. Which game/ending was it?
It's non-canonical, anyway.
@@CynicalWarlock it was his thing in Armageddon if I remember correctly, although I’ll have to check, but I remember that being like why he sided with the forces of evil, out of pure spite for the elder gods
@@datdankdj8264 Which is one of many things I don't like about Armageddon - it's contrived. All the fighters will somehow cause all the realms to implode, and we have to assign an arbitrary good or evil label to everybody?
Why?
It kills all the nuance. There are plenty of grey, independent factions and characters and not everyone gives a shit about saving the world *or* destroying all reality.
Brilliant
/The 1 being Boss of bosses Final villin for the series
Would be awesome
Unfortunately there's a couple of reasons why that may not happen
1 A major conglomerant owns the rights to the franchise a FINAL game Could be bad for business.
2 As fans do we really want to see mortal kombat Come to a permanent close ?
"Final" would be code for 'before a reboot'. Of course you're not gonna kill the franchise. But I do miss the good old days when franchises had overarching stories, instead of rebooting things after every game.
@@CynicalWarlock I agree
Unfortunately that's the problem with Money making media today. Take the Halloween franchise, for example, same problem.
@@CynicalWarlock It's kind of a mixed feeling right. Cause you don't want the franchise to end. But at the same time how Many times can you Milk a franchise Before the substance runs dry
@@mikearce7827 Exactly. This is a relatively new problem, still, that studios are quite terrible at solving. Killing a franchise is unthinkable for any business - it's an asset, it needs to make money somehow, otherwise it's lost money; you own it for nothing. Problem is they don't know when to sequel, when to reboot, when to do spinoffs, or when to sell it to much more capable hands.
@@CynicalWarlock They just don't care. As fans they know we'll buy it regardless of what it is. As long as there's some novelty And some redeeming qualities to the product they know we'll buy it. MK1 is a perfect ebumble. Horrible business practices But it does have some good novelties in there.
George lucas said it best in a video.
They're just scared to try new things. Sticking to the same formula as plain it safe. Instead of putting new ideas to work.
They seem to have forgotten It was because of innovative ideas. We have all these franchises.
Wasn’t it theorised or said that people with/in power like Onaga and Shao Kahn were slightly tainted by the one being
So maybe power is enhanced by the one being to make the connection more stronger
@@Incognitoslag That's true; as I said, the One Being works through all these people. It's always been fun for me to wonder what Shao Kahn, Onaga and Shinnok would've looked like without the One Being's influence. I imagine the differences would be subtle, but noticeable.
Generally like the reimagining, you have her this year. But I definitely wouldn’t consider the one being to be a Christian Christ equivalent. It reminds me more of Lovecraft and deities than anything else. Will that and the pantheon just kind of doesn’t work at least in my mind.
I never said "Christian Christ equivalent". Far from it. The prospect of the One Being returning would still be an ominous one. Its effects would be unpredictable at best, cataclysmic at worst, but the backstory serves to inform the elder gods' personalities a bit more, and enrich the worldbuilding a bit. I still see the One Being as a Lovecraftian god.
@@CynicalWarlock my bad then. I must’ve misheard what you said.
@@projesusantisatan3583 I mean I did make that Avatar comparison, so it's understandable. Aang *is* the savor of the world, I suppose, although I never really saw him as a savior figure.
But I basically see most of these higher beings as morally ambiguous.
Didn’t Cetrion kill all the elder gods😭 the die herself in the same game 😭😭
But I don’t think Liu Kang brought them back as he is now the god and everything
What do MK11 and too much tequila have in common?
They both make you barf.
Hello Lonny Breaux!
Damn it, they're on to me.
Merry Christmas to Cynical Warlock🎄🎁
Merry X-mas, Uzi.
Rewrite idea 1: remove all elder and titan gods and keep them a mystery
Rewrite 2:
Minor Gods exact control over elements , water, fire etc. But fight each other over trying to being the each Realms elder God.
Each elder God can assert massive control and grant immortality to its family as long as not defeated. Defeating kills the elder God. The reason why elder God's want to separate realms is to ensure their lives and their family / champions life. Each Elder God also sees part of the future but never in full. Titan Gods are mention but never shown but are actually not given physical form.
I think MK1 and MK11 seriously messed up by revealing titans. Gods are like monsters. Some are best left never seen. Just manipulating the background.
Game of Thrones with gods. Would make for a pretty damn compelling TV show or spinoff game.
Lots of good ideas here, like the partial premonitions of the future; can play around with that a lot, and keep things mysterious and engaging.
And yes, titans added nothing to the mythos and just overcomplicated things instead.
@CynicalWarlock I was trying to ground the fact they may have families and temporary immortality that can be taken so it is more risk. If Raiden dies now. Instantly reincarnated.
And rarely see Fujin etc. So what if Fujiin is given another premonition, and Shinnok another. And they aren't nessarily evil. But the partial futures and protecting their powers make them fight. Or they also power up through fighting.
If you want to go all in on the demiurge. Say the Demiurge One God is actually the God of Struggle or war. And now is in everyone. All grasping to maintain their fleeting lives. So the battle of titans is essentially brought down to the level of basic gods and titans are just unknown manipulators polluting visions for better or worse for Raiden and Fujiin to fight.
...and aaaaaall that space to explore goes away overshadowed and powercreeped with that lazy timeline titans shit. Way to go, Netherrealm.
Titanic retcon.
I've only played MK Deception but I've kept up with the franchise... everyone keeps dogging on the Elder Gods and for good reason. With this video, I think it's obvious that we need to "consult" with the Gods ourselves to see what the hell their problem is in MK 13
Can you not count? It's gonna be "MK2".
Again.
What about Kronika?
I don't see the point of titans.
@@CynicalWarlock Where does she fit into all this One Being stuff? And what if SHE is the One Being?
@@maddenboseroy4074 She's not. Kronika is not part of the original lore, and was only introduced in MK11. She's described, by the lead writer of that game, as being in a class of her own; higher than Elder Gods (and presumably lower than the One Being).
The reason why I don't see the point of her and other titans is because the gods, demigods and elder gods that we already do have are very poorly fleshed out as it is, and introducing a new class of gods, instead of ironing out what's already there hurts more than it helps.
But that's just me.
Karen Liu Kang would like to talk to your Elder Manager
Please hold.
With the existence of the Titans now, the Elders gods seem even more useless.
1000%.
So what ur saying is, Raiden is Sonic while Shinock is Shadow
Shoulda just said that.
banger alert
Bang-ladesh.
Look up the Soul King and Bleach creation story/cosmology. That’s basically Mortal Kombat.
Similar roots and influences, probably.
@@CynicalWarlock not saying MK stole it, since the One Being came out before the Soul King. But it’s the same concept. The Soul King in Bleach is the linchpin that keeps the worlds together. He was betrayed by those who feared him, butchered, and his corpse was separated into several parts to each serve a different purpose. There’s more similarities between the two, but I’m lazy ÚwÙ Go read his Wiki ÙwÚ
@@Miguel11190 So I unknowingly recreated Bleach's lore. Fascinating.
@@CynicalWarlock Basically. There’s more parallels between the two. Such as the Zero Division being analogous to the Elder Gods: believed to be the most powerful beings but reluctant to act upon threats unless directly challenging their existence. The Zero Division operates in the Soul Palace just like the Elder Gods reside in the Heavens. They allowed Aizen (Bleach’s Shao Kahn) to nearly destroy all of Soul Society and invade the World of the Living, and later during the Quincy King’s awakening (Bleach’s One Being’s avatar/Onaga ), they finally decide to act only after he reaches the Soul Palace. Bleach is the Mortal Kombat of anime, without the biggest trope of both: arena battles.
@@CynicalWarlock Bleach has multiple worlds aka realms. Soul Society is Order Realm, The World of the Living is Earthrealm, Hueco Mundo is basically Chaosrealm and Outworld, and even Hell exists. And none of the worlds would exist if the Soul Reapers didn’t commit the first sin of deicide when they killed and butchered the Soul King.
Weird idea for a game. What if the Elder Gods are MK characters from the future trying to make sure their past selfs are powerful enough to fight off against the “Titans”?
I like the 'future versions of themselves' part.
@@CynicalWarlock Thank you. The Titan part was just to justify why they were doing it.
@@willnorman-bargo Yeah, it's a double-edged thing, in general. I'm a big fan of time travel plots and grandfather paradoxes and such, but I've also seen how that stuff can ruin a story, if it's done poorly. So yeah, I'm torn.
@@CynicalWarlock I agree fully. That’s why it could work better in its own “spin off” universe. That way it doesn’t break the main canon but also if it’s good it can be moved over to the main canon.
@@willnorman-bargo Agreed. I've actually said many times that NRS don't take advantage of the multiverse thing the way they should, i.e. by doing a bunch of spinoff stories and games.