After 30+ years of drooling and dreaming, in 2010 I bought a 2002 TJ (the children were finally raised, educated, and out of the house). After digging deep into the pockets, the TJ was fitted with Dynatrac ProRock 44 up front and ProRock60 in back (Eaton eLockers front and back). Differentials were changed to 4.88. Suspension is long-arm Rubicon Express with 5 1/2" lift. Wheels are mounted with Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ LT315/70R17. Interior cage is Rock-Hard 4x4 Bolt-In Sport Cage. The 4.0L TJ engine seems capable enough to take me places that I might not want to go. An LOD rear bumper with spare wheel mount and 2 jerry cans, LOD tubular sliders, and a Hanson Offroad front bumper (with Warn winch) complete the package. By now it has probably cost the same as a JK Rubicon... but it has certainly been fun building it up.
Nice video, but it would have been interesting if you could have provided a sample of what it would cost to upgrade a sport to the capabilities of a Rubicon, like a spicer front axle with 4.10 gears and lockers, jks sway bar disconnects, etc.
Less i did carbon rock jock 44 detroit locker . D44 torson lsd carbon chromoly shafts and 4:88 gears both ends. It's built a lot stronger than the Rubicon half-ass 44 has same tubes and c's as d30 .
I bought the 2016 Jeep Willy. Dumped 12K into it. Larger tires, Teraflex suspension, front and rear bumpers etc. etc. Went off roading with a Rubicon this week and my Jeep smoked his. Actually that pathetic Rubicon got stuck a lot, while my jeep did not. My 20 cents, buy a sport and Mod it your way but do your research. Then go make your own stickers and be cooler then the Rubicon.
I just bought a 2012 black two door Rubicon. 4 inch lift 35 inch tires 17 inch wheels 6 speed. I had it a Disney oklahoma and it had no problem with moderate terrain (rocks) and hills. I love it. Its a looker. I like all jeep wranglers I would like to say I respect other owners off jeeps no matter what model. You Jeep owner have a great day.
@@MrNirsky jeeps got the Steve bannon bottom 3rd marketing strategy. If someones dumb enough to pay 70k for a wrangler with an engine upgrade they dont deserve money.
What I love to see is someone spend all the extra money on a Rubicon and then replace all the things that make it a Rubicon, bumpers, suspension, etc. If you want a great off roader and don't want to do anything to it, go for the Rubicon, but if your planning on "building" your Jeep then start with a sport.
My wife and I have the 2016 75th anniversary JKU in "sarge" green. An absolutely beautifully Rugged looking Jeep. We bought it off the lot brand new. The only thing I would change (maybe in the future) is the gear ratio. Ours came with 3.21 gear ratio but was available in 3.73 and with a rear locker. But because it's a 75th edition it came with the Rubicon winch ready steel bumpers front and back, rock sliders and the power dome hood. I'm going to try to keep everything as is. Will def upgrade tires to BFG mud terrains. It does have the cold weather package with heated seats. I do agree with you about the touch screen radio. It's old tech. We also didn't realize there was no navigation in the touch screen radio as well. Easily remedied with a 7" Garmin. Not a lot of rocks or hills here in South Louisiana so lockers and sway bar disconnects are not on my must have list. Although Black bear Pass is on my Bucket list. I really enjoy the videos you do in the diff lock series. Keep up the good work!
I wonder- does the 3.21 gear give you better highway performance and fuel mileage, but still with good off-road performance in Low Range? Maybe that's their reasoning for it?
jedironin380 yeah I think that's the idea. Also I probably won't be putting bigger tires on it so 3.21 and maybe 3.73 down the road meets my needs pretty well.
+jedironin380 That's the reasoning, since so many people rarely or never actually take their Wranglers off road the 3.21 gearing gives you better gas mileage but 3.73 and up is better if you plan on doing a lot of off roading or putting on bigger tires.
A rubicon is way better 'out of the box' but if you buy a sport, you can do your own modifications and make it even more off-road worthy than a rubicon for the same or less cost. Plus, half the fun of buying a Jeep is adding stuff to make it your own IMO
The low range ratio on Rubicon is actually terrible for most people. It's only helpful if you really are rock climbing. 98% of people out there will be better served by the Sport's numerically lower axle and t-case ratios. The fuel economy difference is noticeable in the real world, and the offroad driving is much better in a Sport for most terrains. Buy a Sport S (for the taller tires...keeps your speedo closer to realistic when you throw on the 33s) and add lockers and go anywhere the Rubicon can go for several thousand less cost.
TIP!: no matter what you get, get the tow package. it's like $50 and, at least on my 2015, you get a factory-installed transmission oil cooler, looks like an extra mini radiator across the grille. even if you never plan to tow the transmission on the jk is known to run hot so this $50 upgrade helps the transmission stay cooler and probably extends its life!
Just bought a 2017 Sport S. Don 't do much hardcore off roading I do a lot of beach driving so it should work well. I would like to mention that I had no intention of buying a new Jeep at all but totaled my 2000 Jeep Sahara last year which was almost mint by the way. I discovered Wrangler Jeeps hold there value well...so I decided to stick with the Wrangler. Really like the channel. Take care.
I just traded in my vette(z06) for a 2017 Rubicon recon. A totally different direction for me. I bought the top of the line because This vehicle is trail ready and allows me to pick and choose my mods more leisurely down the road. Also, I prefer more comfort in the interior because most of my driving will be on the highway. I hate the 430n "smart" radio from Chrysler and as it turned out I had the downgraded radio in mine. Next week I'm dealer upgrading it to the Alpine restyle. The seats are heated and leather and I find them comfortable. I'm looking forward to modding on what I would consider a good platform. On the other end of the scale, a friend bought the sport and had the dealer do a rocky ridge mod. The mod cost $8,000 and was still cheaper than what I paid. I thought about going in this direction. It was a tough choice. If you plan to do a lot of mods and have the time and place to do them, then going the Rubicon route would probably not be the smart move, as you will be replacing everything anyway. For someone like me who does not have the place and would have to have a shop doing the work, I went for the comfort first, and will work more slowly into the mods. There really is not a"right" answer.
I would add that the Rubicon has a 4:1 transfer case compared to the 2.72:1 transfer case in any Non-Rubicon. Rubicon's can crawl up rocks more controlled in 4LO, but one has to move from 4LO to 4HI pretty quickly. In 2.72:1 you can stay in 4LO till about 25mph, but in the Rubicon one has to shift to 4HI way earlier. If that is an advantage or not is personal preference. With a 2.72:1 transfer case you will never experience crawling up in just idle.
My 15' Willys has the little "easter egg" on the wheels, just in grey not red. It also comes with 3:73's and BFG's. As for the suspension, mine is all TeraFlex now, but it came with the Rubicon suspension and the red shocks. E disconnect is nice but not as effective as manual quick disconnects. E disconnect won't completely disconnect you, the end links are still attached and limit travel. It also comes with a "nanny" feature, she yells at you @ around 15mph when disconnected and you can only disconnect when in 4wd. They are great if you are afraid of getting a little dirty by getting on the ground though. As for the lockers, they are great!... but your "nanny" is there for those to, no fast hill climes with those lockers! Take all this rambling/info lightly because I'm just old school, built not bought. Great video!
True. It should also be mentioned that the disconnect is a throwaway part. When it breaks is it very expensive to replace. There are some cool mods out there where people have taken broken ones and turned them into manual disconnects with a lever from in the cab.
That's what I'm thinking is buying a sport S or Sahara I do kinda like the inside goodies(why not off road with heated seats😂)but then make the Jeep mine and put whatever I want and not feel bad about taking the diffs out and putting in better ones(when I paid 10k extra to have those lockers😂)
I have a couple of notes, as always. Though Jeep says that the hard rock bumper is "winch ready", you still have to buy a winch plate before you can install one. At the time of the 10A release, there was no OEM winch plate made for that bumper, and you had to buy aftermarket. Not sure if that has changed. There are aftermarket winch plates for the stock JK front bumper as well, so in reality the 10A bumper is no more "winch ready" than any JK bumper. One of the most important factors in my bumper choice was vehicle protection in the event of an animal strike or trail damage. In either of those scenarios the 10A bumper is actually junk. Thin sheet metal, not designed to deflect animals down and away, and piss poor approach angle unless you remove the caps. At that point you gain lose all protection to some very vulnerable parts of your rig. I think the hard rock is a cool package, but I'm glad it wasn't around when I purchased my Rubicon, because I would have bought it... and I'd be regretting it now.
Grey Goose 4x4 that's totally acceptable. I guess the tone I was trying to get across wasn't there. It's exciting to put work into your Jeep. Bumpers, tires, lift, hi jack etc. I would prefer not to spend $43,000 on a Jeep and buy a much cheaper one and choose what path my Jeep takes.
Grey Goose 4x4 so far it's excellent. Much better ride than stock that's for sure. Especially on the highway. It feels much more composed. I'm excited to hit the trails!
Some big features you forgot to mention between a Rubicon and a base model or other than rubicon. The T-case between the two are a big difference, the Rubicon has a 4:1 ratio while the other have a 2.72:1 ratio. The Rubicons also have 32 spline axle shafts while the other D44 are just 30 spline. The Dana 30 up front on other than Rubicon is only a 27 spline axle shaft. Now if you put 11K into a base model with upgraded axles (brake to brake setup, 35 spline, lockers), lift and tires you will be just as capable as a rubicon but with more axle strength. just my .02
We bought our first base model Isuzu Trooper in 1987 and sold our second one in 1999. During those twelve years, we went on an average of a dozen camping and picnic trips in the mountain west to places far from the nearest paved roads. In 1999, we bought a base model Wrangler but, with it, we only went on about half as many excursions into the American outback because my wife bought a horse and liked riding it even more--if that is possible--than exploring primitive unimproved roads in the Jeep. Our daughter totaled the Wrangler in ‘08. Since then we’ve had some 4WD trucks we bought used but, with them, we haven’t done as much exploring on challenging roads. If someone were to give me $250,000,000 next week, I think I’d buy a fleet of vehicles, mostly 4WD so I could loan them to my employees when I want to invite them to go along on 4WD trips. But I think I would also want my choices of vehicles to influence manufacturers to market the kinds of vehicles that would allow young families to go to the kinds of places we took our children when they were young. In the hands of world-class drivers, base model Wranglers are way more capable than most people realize. I wouldn’t want to bet, for example, that a world class driver would have any trouble taking a base model Wrangler with no options the entire length of the Rubicon. We took our base model Troopers (4-cyl engine, manual transmission, 235/75R15s) the entire length of the Lockhart Basin Road, Elephant Hill, Klondike Bluffs, Bull Canyon, Long Canyon, Spring Canyon Bottom and Mineral Bottom Roads near Moab, Utah. Yes, my fantasy fleet would include some 4WD pickups but it might include as many (or more) base model Patriots with the Freedom Drive II system as Wranglers. If anyone has additional ideas about now to influence manufacturers to provide off-highway-capable vehicles for prices young families can afford, please let me know.
My opinion: the TJ Rubicon is the best choice. You get Dana 44s front and rear, locking differentials front and rear, and you can find them for up to $10K less than a new base Sport.
Absolutely agree. I have a 2004 Rubicon with minimal mods (Mickey Thompsons, a 10k lb winch, bumpers, rock sliders, and kc day lighters) and it is more than capable for what I use it for (local woods trails and beach driving) along with using it as my daily driver. Oh, and I picked it up with 70,000 miles on it for $500... Yes, you read that right... $500, no rust (previous owner had only used it as a summer car and never driven it on the beach).
How on earth did you find a TJ Rubicon for $500?! The way the Wrangler holds its value, I haven't found one for under $12K. I did find a $12.5K Tomb Raider edition though. Man, I would have killed to have been able to get that!
MultiPurposeReviewer the woman who was selling it just wanted it out of her life. I live in a beach town on Long Island and during the summer city people with too much money and too little brains come out and vacation here for 3-4 months. She had just got a Range Rover as her new "beach vehicle" (a car she will drive to the beach but probably never on it) and had no use for the wrangler. I bought it with no mods, no rust, and it came with the hardtop, and softtop. All in all, I've probably spent less than 2 grand on it between the initial price and mods.
I just went on some trails with my modified 2013 Sport S (AEV 3.5” Lift, 35” Toyo R/T Tires, Tereflex Spare Tire Carrier). All the other jeeps were lifted Rubicons that I went with, and my Sport S was able to keep up with them with really no issues. My sport did come with the anti-spin differential and 3.73 gears from the factory. The trails we went on were in the moderate range in the Eastern Cascades.
The navigation has trail tacking which is a feature that I like. It records your route through off road trails which can be saved. Has helped me through the Sierra's here in California. I have a 2011 4dr JK Unlimited Rubicon. I love mine with the Tru-Lock axles. It's my baby. Still trying to find factory service manuals for it.
I have a 2016 unlimited Hard Rock in Mojave Sand and I love my Jeep. The Alpine speaker package cranks. PSA announcement never buy a Wrangler with 3.21 gears.
Just lifted a 2017 willys based on the sport package. 3.5 rubicon express and 35 inch by 12.3 by 17. And put it through hell. Don’t be shamed into thinking only a Rubicon will get it done. That’s the thing about keeps you can add literally whatever you want
I just purchased a 2017 Unlimited Willys for the added off road features and extras that don't break the bank right off the bat. Its my first Jeep so I am excited and second guessing getting the manual with hard top.
Another excellent Jeep video. Thanks. I have an '09 Rubicon 2 door that I use for minor wheeling. I think you got the best of both worlds Tommy and in all honesty, no one can go wrong with any Wrangler.
Keep in mind you do not always have to pay MSRP. The higher the trim line usually means more than can be discounted. I got my last rubicon for 6 under sticker. You can't get 6 under on the base sport ect.
Whenever I see a 2 door, shortest wheel base wrangler with the smallest and skinniest knobby tires offered on steel wheels I know that jeep owner uses it offroad. On the flip side when I see a 4door lifted jeep with 20" aluminum wheels and low pros I know that guys going to the office and will leave his jeep "muddy" from the last time he purposely went into a puddle when it rained! 😉😉😉 jk you all.
You do a great job with your Jeep videos Tommy... and the rest of the TFL guys. Keep em coming! I have a 2016 Hard Rock Unlimited. Love it because I can take it through stuff the average modded Jeeps go on weekends yet I still have a luxury and dependable ride to/from work every day.
I built Dana44's for mine. I possibly should have done a Dana 60 for the front. But the price is a bit more plus the weight. 5.13 gears, 37's, RCV shafts, Reid knuckles, Detroit lockers front & rear, manual hubs, trussed front & rear, cryro treated darn near everything. Still cheaper than a Rubicon. I threw in Beard seats for comfort & durability.
The Rubicon is really for the middle of the road buyer. If you're into off roading, want 35's or 37s for off road buy the Rubicon. If you're into mild off roading, use smaller tires like 33s, OR if you're the type that wants the other end of the spectrum, like serious off roading (think Moab) and want 38s, 40s or bigger, go with the sport. Reasoning behind the sport for the extreme stuff, you're going to swap out axels for things like Dana60s and more serious hardware so spending the extra money on the Rubicon only to rip all that stuff out is a waste of money.
They should make a Rubi-Sport : manual transmission, manual windows, key ignition, manual sway bars, rear locker. For $3K-$4K more than the base sport willy's edition.
I bought a Sport S, and built up from there. I didn’t want to spend Rubicon $ just to strip the factory parts out and replace with upgraded after market parts. Just my .02
I currently own 2003 Rubicon, my neighbor just bought a 2016. I'm amazed at how it is put together.... example the grill it's literally held on with nothing but plastic clips.
SniperTeamTango Your friend is kind've an idiot. The JK grill weighs less than 3 whole pounds. Why would it need anything more than clips??? And have you ever seen or heard of one unintentionally coming off? Yeah, me neither... And takes less than a minute to remove. Good luck with that on a TJ, lol. Oh, and the LJ was only produced from '05 to '06 and most were plagued with major computer issues. Basically, they're junk, lol.
I got a jku sports s thinking I would do lite offloading, but after getting stuck a few times, I did some serious upgrades. while I love my jeep, I have to say that the price of getting the rock track transfer case and a lockable Dana 44 front axle costs the same as the difference between a Rubicon vs sport s.... gotta say that my next jeep will be a rubicon
Transfer case low Ratio is 2.72:1 on sport model, 4.00:1 on Rubicon. That combined with the low 4.10 final drive ratio allows the Rubicon to crawl much more slowly without stalling. This is extremely useful for steep rocky conditions.
I been doing a lot of research before buying my first jeep. With that said I'm still waiting to see what the new 2018 models are really going to bring out before making my purchase. But I know for a fact that I'll probably invest on a rubicon trim, since I have friends that constantly complaint about on how they should of just got the rubicon than the Sahara trim model.
My 2dr base 2014 Sport with manual everything and 3.73 is a blast. With lockers comes harder trails and more damage, so I can live without all that for now. I'm happy just combing the desert.
1995 YJ Wrangler is my favorite it's the first one I had square head lights mine had factory A/C and heater which is a blessing I love my jeep getting a lift on her soon
I have a '16 JKU willys W as my daily driver and weekend warrior. I off-road the crap out of it on the weekends. I've upgraded the lights to LED, put a teraflex leveling kit. I do agree that the touchscreen radio is garbage and a waste of $, the alpine sound system is pretty amazing though.
Great video. This gentleman comes across, on screen, as a true enthusiast. This is why I have been liking his videos. This video gave me a lot of information to think about. I am leaning HEAVILY towards the Rubicon. I live in an urban environment, in the North East, and these past few winters with the exception of this past winter has been brutal. The Jeep should have issues with that. I do plan on taking the Jeep off road, so again, a lot to think about. Thank you sir for the information and great video. Now on to watch more :)
Tommy, nice job. You are continuing the fine tradition of TFL! Would you guys consider comparing a stick to an auto? Both on and off road? Not sure but think the new Wrangler is just around the corner, so maybe then would be a good time to compare. But JK works too. Thank you good sir!
I have a white 2016 unlimited with no modifications. I love it just like that (though some off roading tires are our next purchase) with one exception. No power locks. Because we plan do to do some month long expeditions we opted to not fork over the change for the power because we didn't want windows and doors to fail. I wish we had just gone with power.
1 thing to keep in mind, that $11k could upgrade both axles to Dana 60's with ARB lockers. If we are to assume any serious offroader is upgrading their tires as well as perform a lift (including suspension) on their Jeep those added expenses could be seen as a wash. So now if you were to compare a JK(U) R-HR w/ OEM Dana 44's (less beefy than aftermarket ProRock 44's) with a 3.5" lift and 37 tires to a Sport S w/ Dana 60's and ARB lockers with the same 3.5" lift and 37 tires. The decision of Sport S vs. Rubi-HR becomes less obvious. At that point from a technical rock-crawling perspective the main difference would be the improved transfer case of the Rubi-HR. Personally I think the Dana 60's with ARB lockers would be a pretty major improvement over the OEM Dana 44's in the Rubi-HR for equal pricing (albeit installation and regearing are additional expenses). I ended up getting the 75th Anniversary Edition JKU which has a lot of the similar features of the Rubi-HR (power-dome hood, rock rails, steel bumpers (which I never upgraded away from), and very important the rear-tru-lok e-locker making my selection 1 of 154 produced in 2016 in color Sarge Green.
I went from a 2011 Rav4 to a 2017 Rubicon Recon 4door 6speed manual LOADED its definitely a upgrade over other 4×4s I owned from Eddie Bauer Broncos to Nissan Xterra
Good video - I like the feature-by feature comparison. I have a 2015 JKUR 6speed, which I got for family overlanding. Works great as a DD, commuter, road trip vehicle, beach cruiser, and of course, overlanding. It hauls my 1952 M100 trailer.
The Sahara is the same package as a sport sometimes actually has less it's just a pretty package upgrade it's like the mall crawler version. My sport had 3.73 gears many sahara have 3.21. Now tj sahara was better than the sport had d44 rear vs d35 .
Thanks for this video. I bought a Rubicon unlimited and didn't really understand what I was getting. This was a nice video. I haven't taken it off road, not even once but there is a certain little bit of pride in knowing I got one of the upper models.
good video, I would like to see them compared going off road especially with the same tires so it takes that out of the equation. I drive a 2012 Sport base with A/C, 3.73 and connectivity group as the only options. I like having no powered windows or locks as it mak3s taking the already heavy doors easier to take off and on. Customizing a Wrangler is a very fun part of the experience. I have made mine unique to my likes and can save for the mods so I didn't have to finance them. i.e. saved for the rear Artec truss and TruTrac differential, then a few months later did the front, etc.
You should have talked more about the drive train. ie transfer case, front axle rear axle, ride height, skid plates. Could have also done a little research to give prices to the aftermarket upgrades if we wanted to build our own " rubicon". Not a bad video but could have been a better comparison
If you want a hard core off road vehicle, buy a base Wrangler and add the fun stuff. You'll save a ton. If you're looking for a nice off road vehicle that has leather and all the bells and whistles on the inside, just buy a Grand Cherokee.
Manufactures are making bank these days by having huge mark ups by doing a few cosmetic changes to base vehicles, then calling the "Platinum" editions or something like that. Usually involves cheap leather instead of cloth, pin stripes, adaptive cruise control, then handing you a 10k or more bump in sticker price.
my 2007 JK Unlimited Rubicon listed for $32,000 with a hard top and auto. The pricing seems ridiculous to me now. Sure, I like the new interior better than mine and the 3.6 with its auto is far superior to my POS.... but The SAME thing now costs $10,000 more than my old JK. Ofcourse the appeal is that my 2007 is VERY paid for.
So the Rubicon is not worth the money over the sport for most everyone who will buy a jeep, unless you are willing to pay for the coolness factor or are actually running the Rubicon trail
I suppose, in a way, it would be better to buy a Rubi if you want lockers and better axles as you can finance the upgraded components, but at the same time, it is fun watching your Jeep transform from a lowly base model to a unique creation of your vision. That said, I'll stick with my 81 CJ5 and skip all the plastic found in these two.
For an extra 10k you could just buy a sport the spend the extra 10k on a lift, bigger tires, fenders,bumpers, led lights, and a winch and prolly still save around 2,000 and have a badass jeep.
Bought a `16 Willys K and feel it was a lot more bang for the buck than the Sport S. At $31,000 the Willys came with a hard top and air cond. as the only options and was stickered less than any Sport on the dealers lot.
Oh Yeah , you also don`t have the Rubicon springs and shocks that the Willy`s comes stock with.....: How much will that cost to upgrade the Sport S with those ?
Silver Fox and have an unrefined jeep with no warranty and 10mpg. screw that. get the hardrock and be done with it. while u r wrenching i will be on the trail in my comfy and capable hardrock. lol
Silver Fox no you can't, not the right way at least and that's not Including labor ... There are too many variables to determine if it's worth it or not pending on what you are going to use it for and your own abilities working on a jeep ... A non hard rock rubicon is without a doubt worth the money over a sport if you plan on off-roading and not going bigger than a 35 inch tire, no need to regear and rubicon axles can easily handle wheeling 35s ...
By the time you add electric Lockers to the front and rear, a sway bar disconnect, a Lift kit, bigger tires, rock sliders, and bumpers, skid plates, and finally a 4:1 transfer case, not to mention the cost labor to install all of it (your average home mechanic does not have the tools rebuild a diff or 2 post lift to install the suspension kit, and most shop rates here in Vegas are 75-100+ dollars an hour) you will spend more than $11,000. don't get me wrong I am not dogging the Sport or Sahara models, they are great jeeps and you can go 90% of the places people will take a Rubicon or modified Jeep.
The Rubicon and Rubicon Hardrock are for those who only plan minor mods. If you want the most balls out JK, start with the most base model you can, and change EVERYTHING. I started with the Willys Wheeler so I could enjoy it stock for a couple of years, then I can go crazy and still be about the same price as the Rubicon HardRock fully loaded, as well as have 1-ton axles, even stronger transfer case, e-lockers and ~37" tires, and the setup will handle up to 42" tires.
Good to see these comparisons. It gives me the opportunity to make a decision since the manufacturer may not offer comparisons just why you should purchase them. Thanks Tommy, you gave me what I needed to know. Now I'm thinking about the 2-door, & Cherokee Traihawk. Don't need trail Blaze but would like to hit some dirt to get to fishing holes and camp. Thoughts? Thanks again
Completely depends on what you want to do if you don't plan to go any bigger than 35 and Mild Wheeling the Rubicon is a great package out of the gate. But if you like to play on the fuel or be a little more hard on a vehicle by the sport build it better Rubicon has a half-assed Dana 44.
at 2:00 that is incorrect that no editions other than the "winter limited" and Rubicon can have a locker. My 16 Sahara Backcountry has the optional $1500 Tru Lock rear dif. (I assume this package is still available) The reason Wranglers get expensive fast is the optional equipment is expensive. $4700 for the Backcountry package. $1500 for the Tru Lock rear, $1200 for the top end radio with Nav, $800 for max tow package, $500 for side airbags, $1350 for automatic trans, $500 for remote start. I didnt need the Alpine and Nav but at the time it was the only unit within 200 miles with side airbags which was mandatory for me.
I'm a 2012 wrangler unlimited rubicon daily driver ,,,3 1/2 inch teraflex lift 35" goodyear wranglers Kevlar tires on xd 17X9.5 wheels with a 5.38 gears ,,and I love my jeap,,,,love the videos ,hope to see what eles you do with your sport
Tommy you lost me at a 4.10 rear end gear is higher than a 3.56 rear end gear. Unless things have changed in the last thirty years, a 4.10 gear is lower than a 3.56 gear, which in turn is lower than a 3.23 gear.
Recommend buying a Sport or Sport S to anyone actually interested in oddroadong and upgrade from their with much stronger aftermarket parts. Rubicon lockers are very weak and an Atlas transfer case is a relatively inexpensive upgrade compared to the upcharge for a Rubicon.
So... if you are leaving it stock and want the status symbol. Get the Rubicon. If you plan on aftermarket parts like lifts and tires. get the cheaper one. All that Rubicon stuff is coming off anyway (besides the interior).
Less . my sport is built a lot better for less than rubi half ass 44 . has same tubes and c's as d30 in sport . Carbon built rock jock 44 was little over 4 grand 200% stronger tubes 1ton c's carbon chromoly shafts and a Detroit Locker no switches no Airlines always works. Did a Torsen LSD in the rear with carbon chromoly shafts and 4:88 gears to match the front.
I thought I didn't wheel enough to need a Rubicon. We were riding during the summer at a offroad park in North Georgia. Choose the moderate trail. I had a 05 wrangler sport with a 4in lift on 35 Goodyear wrangler mt/r tires. My buddy was in a 03 sport with 33s. As soon as we started down this trail it turned horrible. Had my wife and 4yr old son with me. We were sliding down this hill. Who ever designed this ohv park was on crack. Regardless of what trail u chose at the beginning the only way out was on the extreme trail. Spent 6hrs trying to get out, I said never again. Sold the sport and got a Rubicon. Point being just because you think you don't need it, sometimes you get in a little over your head. Like my dad always said when I was growing up (it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it)
If you are going to go to 35s or 37s the Sport is a better starting point. You need to regear so you are now into the axles anyway. You already have a dana 44 in the rear of either so for $1100 more you can put a better ARB air locker in there and be better than a Rubicon there. Then for the front $4200 buys a built ultimate Dana 44 with gears of your choice and a ARB air locker. You will spend $2000 to have a Rubicon regeared So $3300 on top of a sport gets better than a Rubicon. Both will need a lift (which will have sway disconnects) and tires so that's a wash.
they didnt mention that when you go to 4LO on the rubicon it has 4x torque instead of 2.72x like the other models. I was testing it out in 10 inch snow off road earlier today on my rubicon and i was idling through the snow. Crazy torque on this thing!
The best way to go to make the most offroad worthy jeep, is to buy the Jeep Wrangler Sport for $23,995 and then spend 11k in upgrades and you'll have a more offroad worthy jeep than the hard rock edition. That all depends on if you find the right prices on sway bar disconnects, lockers, bumpers, winches, lifts, etc.
I had that a couple of years ago. WWJKU I hated the shinny black bumper covers though. I got catskinz leather seats with heaters. I loved driving that Jeep. Much more fun that my current 2.8 CRD. Good on fuel, but what a dog.
Better axles, lockers, better transfer case. I've been considering a base model rubicon. I don't need any hard rock, Moab or whatever, that's all fluff and less stuff to break on the trail.
Tommy Great Video. just an FYI. the 2013 Rubicon 10th anniversary, the 2014 Rubicon X, and 2015 Hard Rock edition also had an option for the better UConnect 730n radio with navigation. it was the big brother to the 430N that is currently offered in the Wrangler. the 730N was discontinued after 2015. the 730n is much better, and its doesn't have the lag problems that the 430 has. I think the 430 has navigation as well, nut I am not 100% on that. one thing that I wish Jeep would fix for the upcoming 2018 Wrangler is the crappy rubber hood latches. Here in the desert they tend to dry rot in less than a year. when I bought my 2005 Wrangler, I broke a hood latch in less than 8 hours of owning it. Over the coarse of the next several years I have to replace them at least once a year if not more. In 2012 I went to the turnbuckle styles and never had another problem. when I bought my 2015, the first thing I did was swap them out with the metal turnbuckle style from Drake Off-Road. Best $100 I ever spent on my wrangler.
if you EVER plan on doing significant off-road, then yes. the thicker axles and lockers are not really upgradable later without HUGE cost. if you are in the "I'll rip it apart later and re-do everything off-road later" group buy a used TJ and build that up. jk wrangler is too expensive and impractical to buy new and drive to then upgrade until 100k miles or something, you're going to buy the thing twice in upgrades. i have a rubicon stock, with only a 2"/1" leveling kit and different bumpers on it and it does as much off-roading as you could ever want up to the stuff where you are risking rolling your jeep and insane crawling and that i don't recommend driving a newer jeep on pretty much ever unless you're rich haha
After 30+ years of drooling and dreaming, in 2010 I bought a 2002 TJ (the children were finally raised, educated, and out of the house). After digging deep into the pockets, the TJ was fitted with Dynatrac ProRock 44 up front and ProRock60 in back (Eaton eLockers front and back). Differentials were changed to 4.88. Suspension is long-arm Rubicon Express with 5 1/2" lift. Wheels are mounted with Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ LT315/70R17. Interior cage is Rock-Hard 4x4 Bolt-In Sport Cage. The 4.0L TJ engine seems capable enough to take me places that I might not want to go. An LOD rear bumper with spare wheel mount and 2 jerry cans, LOD tubular sliders, and a Hanson Offroad front bumper (with Warn winch) complete the package. By now it has probably cost the same as a JK Rubicon... but it has certainly been fun building it up.
You sir have the best jeep in the world - don't you ever sell it!!!!
The LOD rear bumper is the best imo
Nice video, but it would have been interesting if you could have provided a sample of what it would cost to upgrade a sport to the capabilities of a Rubicon, like a spicer front axle with 4.10 gears and lockers, jks sway bar disconnects, etc.
Less i did carbon rock jock 44 detroit locker .
D44 torson lsd carbon chromoly shafts and 4:88 gears both ends.
It's built a lot stronger than the Rubicon half-ass 44 has same tubes and c's as d30 .
I bought the 2016 Jeep Willy. Dumped 12K into it. Larger
tires, Teraflex suspension, front and rear bumpers etc. etc. Went off roading
with a Rubicon this week and my Jeep smoked his. Actually that pathetic Rubicon
got stuck a lot, while my jeep did not. My 20 cents, buy a sport and Mod it
your way but do your research. Then go make your own stickers and be cooler
then the Rubicon.
I'm thinking of getting a winter edition and modding it.
I just bought a 2012 black two door Rubicon. 4 inch lift 35 inch tires 17 inch wheels 6 speed. I had it a Disney oklahoma and it had no problem with moderate terrain (rocks) and hills. I love it. Its a looker. I like all jeep wranglers I would like to say I respect other owners off jeeps no matter what model. You Jeep owner have a great day.
I still say it's a cash cow. They could sell these for way less money and still make a profit.
They are building a V8...and it probably be $70k
@@MrNirsky jeeps got the Steve bannon bottom 3rd marketing strategy. If someones dumb enough to pay 70k for a wrangler with an engine upgrade they dont deserve money.
I got last years model hard rock with 30,000 miles and every opt. And saved 10,000. Best way to save unless you must have it brand new
What I love to see is someone spend all the extra money on a Rubicon and then replace all the things that make it a Rubicon, bumpers, suspension, etc. If you want a great off roader and don't want to do anything to it, go for the Rubicon, but if your planning on "building" your Jeep then start with a sport.
My wife and I have the 2016 75th anniversary JKU in "sarge" green. An absolutely beautifully Rugged looking Jeep. We bought it off the lot brand new. The only thing I would change (maybe in the future) is the gear ratio. Ours came with 3.21 gear ratio but was available in 3.73 and with a rear locker. But because it's a 75th edition it came with the Rubicon winch ready steel bumpers front and back, rock sliders and the power dome hood. I'm going to try to keep everything as is. Will def upgrade tires to BFG mud terrains. It does have the cold weather package with heated seats. I do agree with you about the touch screen radio. It's old tech. We also didn't realize there was no navigation in the touch screen radio as well. Easily remedied with a 7" Garmin. Not a lot of rocks or hills here in South Louisiana so lockers and sway bar disconnects are not on my must have list. Although Black bear Pass is on my Bucket list. I really enjoy the videos you do in the diff lock series. Keep up the good work!
I wonder- does the 3.21 gear give you better highway performance and fuel mileage, but still with good off-road performance in Low Range? Maybe that's their reasoning for it?
jedironin380 yeah I think that's the idea. Also I probably won't be putting bigger tires on it so 3.21 and maybe 3.73 down the road meets my needs pretty well.
Chris Hooter go with 3.73 if you ever want to re-gear. If you re-gear 3.21 you have to replace housing.
+jedironin380
That's the reasoning, since so many people rarely or never actually take their Wranglers off road the 3.21 gearing gives you better gas mileage but 3.73 and up is better if you plan on doing a lot of off roading or putting on bigger tires.
A rubicon is way better 'out of the box' but if you buy a sport, you can do your own modifications and make it even more off-road worthy than a rubicon for the same or less cost. Plus, half the fun of buying a Jeep is adding stuff to make it your own IMO
The low range ratio on Rubicon is actually terrible for most people. It's only helpful if you really are rock climbing. 98% of people out there will be better served by the Sport's numerically lower axle and t-case ratios. The fuel economy difference is noticeable in the real world, and the offroad driving is much better in a Sport for most terrains.
Buy a Sport S (for the taller tires...keeps your speedo closer to realistic when you throw on the 33s) and add lockers and go anywhere the Rubicon can go for several thousand less cost.
I remember back when a brand new jeep was 12k.... Those days are gone.
With 120hp and no ac. What vehicle doesn’t cost double from 30 years ago? Jeep is by far one of the best buys you can get
12k in 1991 is worth about 24k in 2021. Seems like the base price of a basic new Jeep hasn't gone up much, really.
Love Tommy's vids ! Keep em coming :)
+Karim Akiki Thanks!
The Fast Lane Car love the power dome hood
The Fast Lane Car I think u made a good choice, really like your Jeep. it's the one I would get and want to get.
Karim Akiki
TIP!: no matter what you get, get the tow package. it's like $50 and, at least on my 2015, you get a factory-installed transmission oil cooler, looks like an extra mini radiator across the grille. even if you never plan to tow the transmission on the jk is known to run hot so this $50 upgrade helps the transmission stay cooler and probably extends its life!
14jk sport no tow pakage 3.73 gears
Huge trans cooler stock .
Just bought a 2017 Sport S. Don 't do much hardcore off roading I do a lot of beach driving so it should work well. I would like to mention that I had no intention of buying a new Jeep at all but totaled my 2000 Jeep Sahara last year which was almost mint by the way. I discovered Wrangler Jeeps hold there value well...so I decided to stick with the Wrangler. Really like the channel. Take care.
I just traded in my vette(z06) for a 2017 Rubicon recon. A totally different direction for me. I bought the top of the line because This vehicle is trail ready and allows me to pick and choose my mods more leisurely down the road. Also, I prefer more comfort in the interior because most of my driving will be on the highway. I hate the 430n "smart" radio from Chrysler and as it turned out I had the downgraded radio in mine. Next week I'm dealer upgrading it to the Alpine restyle. The seats are heated and leather and I find them comfortable. I'm looking forward to modding on what I would consider a good platform. On the other end of the scale, a friend bought the sport and had the dealer do a rocky ridge mod. The mod cost $8,000 and was still cheaper than what I paid. I thought about going in this direction. It was a tough choice. If you plan to do a lot of mods and have the time and place to do them, then going the Rubicon route would probably not be the smart move, as you will be replacing everything anyway. For someone like me who does not have the place and would have to have a shop doing the work, I went for the comfort first, and will work more slowly into the mods. There really is not a"right" answer.
I would add that the Rubicon has a 4:1 transfer case compared to the 2.72:1 transfer case in any Non-Rubicon. Rubicon's can crawl up rocks more controlled in 4LO, but one has to move from 4LO to 4HI pretty quickly. In 2.72:1 you can stay in 4LO till about 25mph, but in the Rubicon one has to shift to 4HI way earlier. If that is an advantage or not is personal preference. With a 2.72:1 transfer case you will never experience crawling up in just idle.
My 15' Willys has the little "easter egg" on the wheels, just in grey not red. It also comes with 3:73's and BFG's. As for the suspension, mine is all TeraFlex now, but it came with the Rubicon suspension and the red shocks. E disconnect is nice but not as effective as manual quick disconnects. E disconnect won't completely disconnect you, the end links are still attached and limit travel. It also comes with a "nanny" feature, she yells at you @ around 15mph when disconnected and you can only disconnect when in 4wd. They are great if you are afraid of getting a little dirty by getting on the ground though. As for the lockers, they are great!... but your "nanny" is there for those to, no fast hill climes with those lockers! Take all this rambling/info lightly because I'm just old school, built not bought. Great video!
True. It should also be mentioned that the disconnect is a throwaway part. When it breaks is it very expensive to replace.
There are some cool mods out there where people have taken broken ones and turned them into manual disconnects with a lever from in the cab.
I haven't seen that yet, I'll have to look that up! I use JKS Quicker Disconnects on my channels project JK (Project Dirty Willy)
That's what I'm thinking is buying a sport S or Sahara I do kinda like the inside goodies(why not off road with heated seats😂)but then make the Jeep mine and put whatever I want and not feel bad about taking the diffs out and putting in better ones(when I paid 10k extra to have those lockers😂)
I have a couple of notes, as always. Though Jeep says that the hard rock bumper is "winch ready", you still have to buy a winch plate before you can install one. At the time of the 10A release, there was no OEM winch plate made for that bumper, and you had to buy aftermarket. Not sure if that has changed. There are aftermarket winch plates for the stock JK front bumper as well, so in reality the 10A bumper is no more "winch ready" than any JK bumper. One of the most important factors in my bumper choice was vehicle protection in the event of an animal strike or trail damage. In either of those scenarios the 10A bumper is actually junk. Thin sheet metal, not designed to deflect animals down and away, and piss poor approach angle unless you remove the caps. At that point you gain lose all protection to some very vulnerable parts of your rig.
I think the hard rock is a cool package, but I'm glad it wasn't around when I purchased my Rubicon, because I would have bought it... and I'd be regretting it now.
Its way more fun transforming your own Jeep!
TheDenverJK I made mine my own and it's a rubicon ? Lol just don't have the tools,ability, or desire to do an axle swap with lockers ...
Grey Goose 4x4 that's totally acceptable. I guess the tone I was trying to get across wasn't there. It's exciting to put work into your Jeep. Bumpers, tires, lift, hi jack etc. I would prefer not to spend $43,000 on a Jeep and buy a much cheaper one and choose what path my Jeep takes.
TheDenverJK I here ya man I was just being a smart azz lol I like your setup how do you like the teraflex lift ?
Grey Goose 4x4 so far it's excellent. Much better ride than stock that's for sure. Especially on the highway. It feels much more composed. I'm excited to hit the trails!
It is definitely much more satisfying picking parts out but it does suck waiting to redo axles.
3 years into it and still loving my 2017 Winter Edition
Some big features you forgot to mention between a Rubicon and a base model or other than rubicon. The T-case between the two are a big difference, the Rubicon has a 4:1 ratio while the other have a 2.72:1 ratio. The Rubicons also have 32 spline axle shafts while the other D44 are just 30 spline. The Dana 30 up front on other than Rubicon is only a 27 spline axle shaft. Now if you put 11K into a base model with upgraded axles (brake to brake setup, 35 spline, lockers), lift and tires you will be just as capable as a rubicon but with more axle strength. just my .02
We bought our first base model Isuzu Trooper in 1987 and sold our second one in 1999. During those twelve years, we went on an average of a dozen camping and picnic trips in the mountain west to places far from the nearest paved roads.
In 1999, we bought a base model Wrangler but, with it, we only went on about half as many excursions into the American outback because my wife bought a horse and liked riding it even more--if that is possible--than exploring primitive unimproved roads in the Jeep. Our daughter totaled the Wrangler in ‘08. Since then we’ve had some 4WD trucks we bought used but, with them, we haven’t done as much exploring on challenging roads.
If someone were to give me $250,000,000 next week, I think I’d buy a fleet of vehicles, mostly 4WD so I could loan them to my employees when I want to invite them to go along on 4WD trips. But I think I would also want my choices of vehicles to influence manufacturers to market the kinds of vehicles that would allow young families to go to the kinds of places we took our children when they were young. In the hands of world-class drivers, base model Wranglers are way more capable than most people realize. I wouldn’t want to bet, for example, that a world class driver would have any trouble taking a base model Wrangler with no options the entire length of the Rubicon. We took our base model Troopers (4-cyl engine, manual transmission, 235/75R15s) the entire length of the Lockhart Basin Road, Elephant Hill, Klondike Bluffs, Bull Canyon, Long Canyon, Spring Canyon Bottom and Mineral Bottom Roads near Moab, Utah.
Yes, my fantasy fleet would include some 4WD pickups but it might include as many (or more) base model Patriots with the Freedom Drive II system as Wranglers.
If anyone has additional ideas about now to influence manufacturers to provide off-highway-capable vehicles for prices young families can afford, please let me know.
A dozen such trips PER YEAR.
My opinion: the TJ Rubicon is the best choice. You get Dana 44s front and rear, locking differentials front and rear, and you can find them for up to $10K less than a new base Sport.
MultiPurposeReviewer h
What?
Absolutely agree. I have a 2004 Rubicon with minimal mods (Mickey Thompsons, a 10k lb winch, bumpers, rock sliders, and kc day lighters) and it is more than capable for what I use it for (local woods trails and beach driving) along with using it as my daily driver. Oh, and I picked it up with 70,000 miles on it for $500... Yes, you read that right... $500, no rust (previous owner had only used it as a summer car and never driven it on the beach).
How on earth did you find a TJ Rubicon for $500?! The way the Wrangler holds its value, I haven't found one for under $12K. I did find a $12.5K Tomb Raider edition though. Man, I would have killed to have been able to get that!
MultiPurposeReviewer the woman who was selling it just wanted it out of her life. I live in a beach town on Long Island and during the summer city people with too much money and too little brains come out and vacation here for 3-4 months. She had just got a Range Rover as her new "beach vehicle" (a car she will drive to the beach but probably never on it) and had no use for the wrangler. I bought it with no mods, no rust, and it came with the hardtop, and softtop. All in all, I've probably spent less than 2 grand on it between the initial price and mods.
I just went on some trails with my modified 2013 Sport S (AEV 3.5” Lift, 35” Toyo R/T Tires, Tereflex Spare Tire Carrier). All the other jeeps were lifted Rubicons that I went with, and my Sport S was able to keep up with them with really no issues. My sport did come with the anti-spin differential and 3.73 gears from the factory. The trails we went on were in the moderate range in the Eastern Cascades.
The navigation has trail tacking which is a feature that I like. It records your route through off road trails which can be saved. Has helped me through the Sierra's here in California. I have a 2011 4dr JK Unlimited Rubicon. I love mine with the Tru-Lock axles. It's my baby. Still trying to find factory service manuals for it.
I have a 2016 unlimited Hard Rock in Mojave Sand and I love my Jeep. The Alpine speaker package cranks. PSA announcement never buy a Wrangler with 3.21 gears.
2 door JKR for me, 6.4L Hemi supercharged, 4 inch lift, 35's with 4.88 gears, no top, no doors, no spare, lightweight bumpers
Just lifted a 2017 willys based on the sport package. 3.5 rubicon express and 35 inch by 12.3 by 17. And put it through hell. Don’t be shamed into thinking only a
Rubicon will get it done. That’s the thing about keeps you can add literally whatever you want
I just purchased a 2017 Unlimited Willys for the added off road features and extras that don't break the bank right off the bat. Its my first Jeep so I am excited and second guessing getting the manual with hard top.
Another excellent Jeep video. Thanks. I have an '09 Rubicon 2 door that I use for minor wheeling. I think you got the best of both worlds Tommy and in all honesty, no one can go wrong with any Wrangler.
Keep in mind you do not always have to pay MSRP. The higher the trim line usually means more than can be discounted. I got my last rubicon for 6 under sticker. You can't get 6 under on the base sport ect.
Good job Tommy. Keep up the good work.
Whenever I see a 2 door, shortest wheel base wrangler with the smallest and skinniest knobby tires offered on steel wheels I know that jeep owner uses it offroad. On the flip side when I see a 4door lifted jeep with 20" aluminum wheels and low pros I know that guys going to the office and will leave his jeep "muddy" from the last time he purposely went into a puddle when it rained! 😉😉😉 jk you all.
You do a great job with your Jeep videos Tommy... and the rest of the TFL guys. Keep em coming!
I have a 2016 Hard Rock Unlimited. Love it because I can take it through stuff the average modded Jeeps go on weekends yet I still have a luxury and dependable ride to/from work every day.
A vinyl seat option would be nice.
Blake Boggs Or a fluffly pillow option.
I built Dana44's for mine. I possibly should have done a Dana 60 for the front. But the price is a bit more plus the weight. 5.13 gears, 37's, RCV shafts, Reid knuckles, Detroit lockers front & rear, manual hubs, trussed front & rear, cryro treated darn near everything. Still cheaper than a Rubicon. I threw in Beard seats for comfort & durability.
The Rubicon is really for the middle of the road buyer. If you're into off roading, want 35's or 37s for off road buy the Rubicon. If you're into mild off roading, use smaller tires like 33s, OR if you're the type that wants the other end of the spectrum, like serious off roading (think Moab) and want 38s, 40s or bigger, go with the sport. Reasoning behind the sport for the extreme stuff, you're going to swap out axels for things like Dana60s and more serious hardware so spending the extra money on the Rubicon only to rip all that stuff out is a waste of money.
They should make a Rubi-Sport : manual transmission, manual windows, key ignition, manual sway bars, rear locker. For $3K-$4K more than the base sport willy's edition.
I bought a Sport S, and built up from there. I didn’t want to spend Rubicon $ just to strip the factory parts out and replace with upgraded after market parts. Just my .02
love the 2017 green Jeep Rubicon it excellent in the winter and sporty in the summer! great look!!
I currently own 2003 Rubicon, my neighbor just bought a 2016. I'm amazed at how it is put together.... example the grill it's literally held on with nothing but plastic clips.
A friend of mine lost his MIND when he saw that on mine, he has an LJ from 2004.
SniperTeamTango Your friend is kind've an idiot. The JK grill weighs less than 3 whole pounds. Why would it need anything more than clips??? And have you ever seen or heard of one unintentionally coming off? Yeah, me neither... And takes less than a minute to remove. Good luck with that on a TJ, lol. Oh, and the LJ was only produced from '05 to '06 and most were plagued with major computer issues. Basically, they're junk, lol.
I have a 2010 two door mountain edition in orange. I love it. Only 42k miles and I've had it almost a year.
I got a jku sports s thinking I would do lite offloading, but after getting stuck a few times, I did some serious upgrades. while I love my jeep, I have to say that the price of getting the rock track transfer case and a lockable Dana 44 front axle costs the same as the difference between a Rubicon vs sport s.... gotta say that my next jeep will be a rubicon
You didn't mention one of the best things about a rubi, the transfer case low range gearing is significantly lower.
Transfer case low Ratio is 2.72:1 on sport model, 4.00:1 on Rubicon. That combined with the low 4.10 final drive ratio allows the Rubicon to crawl much more slowly without stalling. This is extremely useful for steep rocky conditions.
No if you get proper gears you don't need the 4 to 1 low and most places that is entirely too low. With a 2:72 to just choose a lower gear.
I would say that you should buy a rubicon base and add stuff if u need it
Or you could buy a sport build it better than a ruby with a half-assed 44
I been doing a lot of research before buying my first jeep. With that said I'm still waiting to see what the new 2018 models are really going to bring out before making my purchase. But I know for a fact that I'll probably invest on a rubicon trim, since I have friends that constantly complaint about on how they should of just got the rubicon than the Sahara trim model.
My 2dr base 2014 Sport with manual everything and 3.73 is a blast. With lockers comes harder trails and more damage, so I can live without all that for now. I'm happy just combing the desert.
I have a 2016 Rubicon Hard rock with all of the goodies. Gotta say,,its the best jeep ever.
1995 YJ Wrangler is my favorite it's the first one I had square head lights mine had factory A/C and heater which is a blessing I love my jeep getting a lift on her soon
I have a '16 JKU willys W as my daily driver and weekend warrior. I off-road the crap out of it on the weekends. I've upgraded the lights to LED, put a teraflex leveling kit. I do agree that the touchscreen radio is garbage and a waste of $, the alpine sound system is pretty amazing though.
I wish these prices were still applicable today…
Great video. This gentleman comes across, on screen, as a true enthusiast. This is why I have been liking his videos. This video gave me a lot of information to think about. I am leaning HEAVILY towards the Rubicon. I live in an urban environment, in the North East, and these past few winters with the exception of this past winter has been brutal. The Jeep should have issues with that. I do plan on taking the Jeep off road, so again, a lot to think about. Thank you sir for the information and great video. Now on to watch more :)
Great review by Tommy! A millennial voice is just what this channel was missing, if it was missing anything haha. Can't wait for more!
Get the Rubicon used. Has lockers and those can really make a difference. Or buy a winch or lean to drive off-road
Tommy, nice job. You are continuing the fine tradition of TFL! Would you guys consider comparing a stick to an auto? Both on and off road? Not sure but think the new Wrangler is just around the corner, so maybe then would be a good time to compare. But JK works too. Thank you good sir!
I have a white 2016 unlimited with no modifications. I love it just like that (though some off roading tires are our next purchase) with one exception. No power locks. Because we plan do to do some month long expeditions we opted to not fork over the change for the power because we didn't want windows and doors to fail. I wish we had just gone with power.
1 thing to keep in mind, that $11k could upgrade both axles to Dana 60's with ARB lockers. If we are to assume any serious offroader is upgrading their tires as well as perform a lift (including suspension) on their Jeep those added expenses could be seen as a wash. So now if you were to compare a JK(U) R-HR w/ OEM Dana 44's (less beefy than aftermarket ProRock 44's) with a 3.5" lift and 37 tires to a Sport S w/ Dana 60's and ARB lockers with the same 3.5" lift and 37 tires. The decision of Sport S vs. Rubi-HR becomes less obvious. At that point from a technical rock-crawling perspective the main difference would be the improved transfer case of the Rubi-HR. Personally I think the Dana 60's with ARB lockers would be a pretty major improvement over the OEM Dana 44's in the Rubi-HR for equal pricing (albeit installation and regearing are additional expenses).
I ended up getting the 75th Anniversary Edition JKU which has a lot of the similar features of the Rubi-HR (power-dome hood, rock rails, steel bumpers (which I never upgraded away from), and very important the rear-tru-lok e-locker making my selection 1 of 154 produced in 2016 in color Sarge Green.
I went from a 2011 Rav4 to a 2017 Rubicon Recon 4door 6speed manual LOADED its definitely a upgrade over other 4×4s I owned from Eddie Bauer Broncos to Nissan Xterra
Good video - I like the feature-by feature comparison. I have a 2015 JKUR 6speed, which I got for family overlanding. Works great as a DD, commuter, road trip vehicle, beach cruiser, and of course, overlanding. It hauls my 1952 M100 trailer.
My baby is a 1980 C7 with a 258 inline six, gets me everywhere I need to go.
I'm going to just get the sport and mod it. Don't need the rubicon, but don't need to pay for wheels and a top that I will replace.
Good video, I've got a 17 sahara for my first jeep, it would interesting to how it compares the sport model.
The Sahara is the same package as a sport sometimes actually has less it's just a pretty package upgrade it's like the mall crawler version.
My sport had 3.73 gears many sahara have 3.21.
Now tj sahara was better than the sport had d44 rear vs d35 .
Thanks for this video. I bought a Rubicon unlimited and didn't really understand what I was getting. This was a nice video. I haven't taken it off road, not even once but there is a certain little bit of pride in knowing I got one of the upper models.
good video, I would like to see them compared going off road especially with the same tires so it takes that out of the equation. I drive a 2012 Sport base with A/C, 3.73 and connectivity group as the only options. I like having no powered windows or locks as it mak3s taking the already heavy doors easier to take off and on. Customizing a Wrangler is a very fun part of the experience. I have made mine unique to my likes and can save for the mods so I didn't have to finance them. i.e. saved for the rear Artec truss and TruTrac differential, then a few months later did the front, etc.
You should have talked more about the drive train. ie transfer case, front axle rear axle, ride height, skid plates. Could have also done a little research to give prices to the aftermarket upgrades if we wanted to build our own " rubicon". Not a bad video but could have been a better comparison
If you want a hard core off road vehicle, buy a base Wrangler and add the fun stuff. You'll save a ton. If you're looking for a nice off road vehicle that has leather and all the bells and whistles on the inside, just buy a Grand Cherokee.
Just FYI, and to take a little steam out of the Rubicons jazz, the front axle is not a true Dana 44. I still love my 2016 JKUR though!
great video Tommy! appreciate the breakdown :)
Manufactures are making bank these days by having huge mark ups by doing a few cosmetic changes to base vehicles, then calling the "Platinum" editions or something like that. Usually involves cheap leather instead of cloth, pin stripes, adaptive cruise control, then handing you a 10k or more bump in sticker price.
my 2007 JK Unlimited Rubicon listed for $32,000 with a hard top and auto. The pricing seems ridiculous to me now. Sure, I like the new interior better than mine and the 3.6 with its auto is far superior to my POS.... but The SAME thing now costs $10,000 more than my old JK. Ofcourse the appeal is that my 2007 is VERY paid for.
So the Rubicon is not worth the money over the sport for most everyone who will buy a jeep, unless you are willing to pay for the coolness factor or are actually running the Rubicon trail
I suppose, in a way, it would be better to buy a Rubi if you want lockers and better axles as you can finance the upgraded components, but at the same time, it is fun watching your Jeep transform from a lowly base model to a unique creation of your vision. That said, I'll stick with my 81 CJ5 and skip all the plastic found in these two.
For an extra 10k you could just buy a sport the spend the extra 10k on a lift, bigger tires, fenders,bumpers, led lights, and a winch and prolly still save around 2,000 and have a badass jeep.
Bought a `16 Willys K and feel it was a lot more bang for the buck than the Sport S. At $31,000 the Willys came with a hard top and air cond. as the only options and was stickered less than any Sport on the dealers lot.
Oh Yeah , you also don`t have the Rubicon springs and shocks that the Willy`s comes stock with.....: How much will that cost to upgrade the Sport S with those ?
$11,000 invested into a Base Sport would put the Hard Rock Rubican on the trailer ,GAMEOVER .
Silver Fox and have an unrefined jeep with no warranty and 10mpg. screw that. get the hardrock and be done with it. while u r wrenching i will be on the trail in my comfy and capable hardrock. lol
Silver Fox no you can't, not the right way at least and that's not Including labor ... There are too many variables to determine if it's worth it or not pending on what you are going to use it for and your own abilities working on a jeep ... A non hard rock rubicon is without a doubt worth the money over a sport if you plan on off-roading and not going bigger than a 35 inch tire, no need to regear and rubicon axles can easily handle wheeling 35s ...
Grey Goose 4x4
Also when you go to sell the Sport, you will only get what a Sport Wrangler is worth without the mods.
By the time you add electric Lockers to the front and rear, a sway bar disconnect, a Lift kit, bigger tires, rock sliders, and bumpers, skid plates, and finally a 4:1 transfer case, not to mention the cost labor to install all of it (your average home mechanic does not have the tools rebuild a diff or 2 post lift to install the suspension kit, and most shop rates here in Vegas are 75-100+ dollars an hour) you will spend more than $11,000. don't get me wrong I am not dogging the Sport or Sahara models, they are great jeeps and you can go 90% of the places people will take a Rubicon or modified Jeep.
The Rubicon and Rubicon Hardrock are for those who only plan minor mods. If you want the most balls out JK, start with the most base model you can, and change EVERYTHING. I started with the Willys Wheeler so I could enjoy it stock for a couple of years, then I can go crazy and still be about the same price as the Rubicon HardRock fully loaded, as well as have 1-ton axles, even stronger transfer case, e-lockers and ~37" tires, and the setup will handle up to 42" tires.
Good to see these comparisons. It gives me the opportunity to make a decision since the manufacturer may not offer comparisons just why you should purchase them. Thanks Tommy, you gave me what I needed to know. Now I'm thinking about the 2-door, & Cherokee Traihawk. Don't need trail Blaze but would like to hit some dirt to get to fishing holes and camp. Thoughts? Thanks again
Completely depends on what you want to do if you don't plan to go any bigger than 35 and Mild Wheeling the Rubicon is a great package out of the gate.
But if you like to play on the fuel or be a little more hard on a vehicle by the sport build it better Rubicon has a half-assed Dana 44.
at 2:00 that is incorrect that no editions other than the "winter limited" and Rubicon can have a locker. My 16 Sahara Backcountry has the optional $1500 Tru Lock rear dif. (I assume this package is still available) The reason Wranglers get expensive fast is the optional equipment is expensive. $4700 for the Backcountry package. $1500 for the Tru Lock rear, $1200 for the top end radio with Nav, $800 for max tow package, $500 for side airbags, $1350 for automatic trans, $500 for remote start. I didnt need the Alpine and Nav but at the time it was the only unit within 200 miles with side airbags which was mandatory for me.
jeepthing98 The Backcountry is not available for 2017
I'm a 2012 wrangler unlimited rubicon daily driver ,,,3 1/2 inch teraflex lift 35" goodyear wranglers Kevlar tires on xd 17X9.5 wheels with a 5.38 gears ,,and I love my jeap,,,,love the videos ,hope to see what eles you do with your sport
Tommy you lost me at a 4.10 rear end gear is higher than a 3.56 rear end gear. Unless things have changed in the last thirty years, a 4.10 gear is lower than a 3.56 gear, which in turn is lower than a 3.23 gear.
Fridayjoefriday higher numerically, but it's a lower ratio
Recommend buying a Sport or Sport S to anyone actually interested in oddroadong and upgrade from their with much stronger aftermarket parts. Rubicon lockers are very weak and an Atlas transfer case is a relatively inexpensive upgrade compared to the upcharge for a Rubicon.
Please do a stock sport to base Rubicon comparison. You also did not explain the benefits of electronic disconnects for the front sway bar. Thanks Ray
So... if you are leaving it stock and want the status symbol. Get the Rubicon.
If you plan on aftermarket parts like lifts and tires. get the cheaper one. All that Rubicon stuff is coming off anyway (besides the interior).
2016 Wrangler freedom edition, billet silver I highly recommend the alpine speaker package And the manual 6 speed is amazing
Good review, I think the sport is the way to go for me
Couple of comments... Rubicon suspension including the red shocks minus the electronic swaybars comes on the Willys package as well.
I hope the 3.0L ecodiesel is offered with the rubicon package.
I guess the question is how much does it cost you to turn a Sport into a Rubicon equivalent?
Less . my sport is built a lot better for less than rubi half ass 44 . has same tubes and c's as d30 in sport .
Carbon built rock jock 44 was little over 4 grand 200% stronger tubes 1ton c's carbon chromoly shafts and a Detroit Locker no switches no Airlines always works.
Did a Torsen LSD in the rear with carbon chromoly shafts and 4:88 gears to match the front.
I thought I didn't wheel enough to need a Rubicon. We were riding during the summer at a offroad park in North Georgia. Choose the moderate trail. I had a 05 wrangler sport with a 4in lift on 35 Goodyear wrangler mt/r tires. My buddy was in a 03 sport with 33s. As soon as we started down this trail it turned horrible. Had my wife and 4yr old son with me. We were sliding down this hill. Who ever designed this ohv park was on crack. Regardless of what trail u chose at the beginning the only way out was on the extreme trail. Spent 6hrs trying to get out, I said never again. Sold the sport and got a Rubicon. Point being just because you think you don't need it, sometimes you get in a little over your head. Like my dad always said when I was growing up (it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it)
I have a 2016 Backcountry JKU. No lockers or auto sway bar disconnect... But I have AEV bumpers KO2s and some super sweet graphics.. ;)
If you are going to go to 35s or 37s the Sport is a better starting point. You need to regear so you are now into the axles anyway. You already have a dana 44 in the rear of either so for $1100 more you can put a better ARB air locker in there and be better than a Rubicon there. Then for the front $4200 buys a built ultimate Dana 44 with gears of your choice and a ARB air locker. You will spend $2000 to have a Rubicon regeared So $3300 on top of a sport gets better than a Rubicon. Both will need a lift (which will have sway disconnects) and tires so that's a wash.
they didnt mention that when you go to 4LO on the rubicon it has 4x torque instead of 2.72x like the other models. I was testing it out in 10 inch snow off road earlier today on my rubicon and i was idling through the snow. Crazy torque on this thing!
The best way to go to make the most offroad worthy jeep, is to buy the Jeep Wrangler Sport for $23,995 and then spend 11k in upgrades and you'll have a more offroad worthy jeep than the hard rock edition. That all depends on if you find the right prices on sway bar disconnects, lockers, bumpers, winches, lifts, etc.
My favorite wrangler will probably we the Willy wheeler w yeah that's a good one
I had that a couple of years ago. WWJKU I hated the shinny black bumper covers though. I got catskinz leather seats with heaters. I loved driving that Jeep. Much more fun that my current 2.8 CRD. Good on fuel, but what a dog.
I bought a 2017 Sahara and ended up re-gearing to 4.56s and putting in E-lockers. Would've been better off just buying a Rubicon. Live and learn.
Better axles, lockers, better transfer case. I've been considering a base model rubicon. I don't need any hard rock, Moab or whatever, that's all fluff and less stuff to break on the trail.
I have a 10 JKU Sport. I'm still in the process of upgrading it.
Tommy Great Video. just an FYI. the 2013 Rubicon 10th anniversary, the 2014 Rubicon X, and 2015 Hard Rock edition also had an option for the better UConnect 730n radio with navigation. it was the big brother to the 430N that is currently offered in the Wrangler. the 730N was discontinued after 2015. the 730n is much better, and its doesn't have the lag problems that the 430 has. I think the 430 has navigation as well, nut I am not 100% on that. one thing that I wish Jeep would fix for the upcoming 2018 Wrangler is the crappy rubber hood latches. Here in the desert they tend to dry rot in less than a year. when I bought my 2005 Wrangler, I broke a hood latch in less than 8 hours of owning it. Over the coarse of the next several years I have to replace them at least once a year if not more. In 2012 I went to the turnbuckle styles and never had another problem. when I bought my 2015, the first thing I did was swap them out with the metal turnbuckle style from Drake Off-Road. Best $100 I ever spent on my wrangler.
Great review, thorough and complete, as always. Thank you
if you EVER plan on doing significant off-road, then yes. the thicker axles and lockers are not really upgradable later without HUGE cost. if you are in the "I'll rip it apart later and re-do everything off-road later" group buy a used TJ and build that up. jk wrangler is too expensive and impractical to buy new and drive to then upgrade until 100k miles or something, you're going to buy the thing twice in upgrades. i have a rubicon stock, with only a 2"/1" leveling kit and different bumpers on it and it does as much off-roading as you could ever want up to the stuff where you are risking rolling your jeep and insane crawling and that i don't recommend driving a newer jeep on pretty much ever unless you're rich haha