Why nostalgia his hurting comic books! [Discussion]
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2017
- The ComicPOP crew discusses the role nostalgia plays in the comic book industry. Never miss an episode by subscribing today! bit.ly/2WYvgkt #comicpop
ComicPop is a few friends talking about comic books. The ComicPop team brings a bunch of unique points of view to every single discussion about a comic book, graphic novel, character or story arc. You can find full conversations about your favorite titles from Marvel and DC Comics, plus a few pretty key independent comics. If you're looking for a long, funny conversation about Batman or a deep dive into why Spider-Man is so neurotic, check out the hours and hours of amusing, insightful and downright stupid conversations about some of your favorite comic books over the years. If you're a longtime comic book reader or just starting out, make sure to subscribe right now!
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I love how everyone is dressed nice except for Ethan.
Ethan is prepared to GET PHYSICAL
*plays video*
*pauses the video*
*scroll down to comment*
"ETHAN. WHERE YO JACKET."
He needs a suit Jacket Bro, have you learned nothing from Kingsman ( I was being sarcastic in my comment lol)
FifthHorseman23 The subject was so hot that he had to get rid of his jacket
When I was getting started in comics, the references drew me in but not in the same way as Sal. I do don't track down issues but I felt like I had knowledge of the larger universe. Like the references were inclusionary for people like me.
Ethan is no conformist. He wears whatever he wants. Fight the power!
"ETHAN. WEAR YO JACKET."
I wish I had friends like you guys
I need friends to 😥
Seems like Ethan didn't get the memo...
As an 18 year old guy who only got into comics in the last few years, I love the callbacks to old stories. It is an extremely easy thing to find basically everything that happened in that story without ever even reading it. Continuity is a fun thing for me to try and dissect.
Damn it Ethan! You had one job!
Thank you for bringing Comic Line back. This is so great!
But one thing has really been bothering me...
WHERE ARE THE BOW TIES?!
I want full Kingsman suits and glasses next time lol also can't forget about the parted hairstyles
Nostalgia is like a good spice. You already have a solid main dish, but you need that extra something to enhance it. Then, you get Superman Rebirth or (I argue) Secret Wars. A spice as your main dish? Bad idea. Then, stuff like Batman & Harley Quinn or (I argue) Spider-Verse happens.
And now I made myself hungry.
(IN HOMER SIMPSON VOICE): MMMMM..... NOSTALGIC SPICE **DROOL**
When I first started buying comics in 2006, I spent countless hours on Wikipedia catching up on all of the history of the characters. For new comic readers complaining about continuity, I refer them to ComicPop and Comicstorian.
Exactly, the internet is a thing now people who feel "left out" should be less lazy about getting into a character they want to read about
Scott Stofenberg That's exactly what I did too also I was so frustrated that Marvel's website wiki was so damn weak.
Shoutout to Comics Explained as well Rob goes in depth and is easy on the ears
As someone who really started reading DC hardcore at the start of the New 52, I think nostalgia hinders good stories because instead of trusting the writers to write good stories, fans get mad because their beloved characters are changing as real people change. The writers pander to the fans and discard all the character building they've been working on to appease the fans nostalgia.
Sam Moore yup I totally agree. I might be in the minority but I feel like that's what's going on in marvel right now. A whole bunch of the major players are passing down their mantles to younger characters and there have been so much toxicity.
It's gotten to the point where I like every video before I watch it. Love you guys, keep up the amazing content.
I am in my 50s and new to comics. I started reading only a few years ago when the New 52 came out and found it to be a good starting point for a newbie. I have been watching your channel for only a few months, but I have really enjoyed your Input on the history of comics and have made me more aware of writers and continuity. The new Reboot has been great and I have been thankful that old characters, that are new to me, have been introduced. I have been using Wikipedia to look theses characters up and am now interested in reading their stories. Thank you for your channel for widening my view of the industry. I have recently included Marvel and some independent works into my reading.
Before the internet was mainstream, Marvel had these really useful Official Handbooks in the form of a 8 issue series called Marvel Universe Updates 89'.
They were basically Wikipedia articles on characters and events surrounding them from A-Z.
Made looking up some characters and the events around them extremely easy.
They actually released more throughout the 2000s in Hardcover don't know if they got single issues or not
I've seen the hardcover Official Handbooks from the 2000's those were nice, a bit of an investment tho.
There are multiples of them from A-Z as well. Probably much more up to date.
I haven't seen the floppies for them i'll be looking in the dollar bin tho.
Panda Reee I remember my grandfather giving me a stack of those encyclopedic issues, I still have them to this day.
Panda Reee i have a few volumes in comic form that i got from a thrift shop a few months ago... volumes 1&2 of M. N. and mixed volumes of other letters.
Superman feels like an example of serialized characters done right. They didn't change the nature of the character (like new 52 Supes) but they innovated and progressed on the narrative by making him a parent.
HEY, Sal used my idea from Twitter thats awesome! I'm glad you saw my tweet Sal! Great episode!!
THIS WAS A TOP CLASS VIDEO. Have I just been missing these type of videos because I really want more of these type of discussions. Well done ComicPOP. Well done!
Sal, drinking one of the last cans of Coke Zero known to man.
Surely there's a whole room in the new studio that is dedicated to Sal's stockpile of Coke Zero.
Matthew Nash they still sell it in California...
I love the fact that everybody is rockin blazers, meanwhile Ethen is just chillin in a t shirt. Its great. KEEP THAT FORMAT.
There's always gotta be one bad apple!
Would love to see them go all out and make this like a news channel roundtable. I still am all for ComicPOP nightly news.
8 seconds, DAMNIT ETHAN WHY AREN'T YOU WEARING A BLAZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Sal, I see it like as a challenge. I enjoy researching and learning about past events or different characters. I find that it is the best way to catch up on the long history. Plus I have you guys!
As a fairly new comic book reader (I've been reading for 3 years) When I started, I quite enjoy coming across a reference of something old. I found it fun watching a video on that event or reading about it on Wikipedia. Now I'm all caught up and can sometimes even feel nostalgic seeing certain color pallets or the odd reference.
This feels like a microcosm of a systemic issue with Nostalgia in pop-culture in general. Personally I feel like this decade as a whole doesn't have a voice like in 10-15 years will look back at the 10s and say "Oh yeah that's when we thought the 80s were cool again & bitched about everything on social media" and that's it.
As for comics I jumped in to reading for the first time during DC Rebirth, thanks to ComicPOP (and comixology) and what I find interesting is that yeah it's all new to me but does garner that feel of familiarity. This I find is mostly due to the fact that those characters have been part of the societal zeitgeist my entire life. I was raised on Batman TAS, JLU X-Men 92 and show of it's ilk, which while they did create new stories they also adapted the quintessential stories and thereby incepting them into common knowledge for a generation. This is why Superman feels familiar to me, that said I have to disagree with Tiff saying Superman is the biggest example of Nostalgia in Rebirth. Superman may feel like the Superman of memory but him having a child and being an overprotective father is a new spin that makes Superman far more endearing and makes his stories that much more interesting.
To my mind Wonder Woman is the biggest Nostalgia trip in Rebirth. This is a character who got a complete rework, including a Year One new origin, completely eliminating all the New 52 stories as well as bringing in a popular writer from yesteryear in Greg Rucka who basically just wrote the character as he did 20 odd years ago. I loved his Rebirth run and have been underwhelmed since he left. I'm trying to figure out if that's because of the current writer/artist not having hit their stride or whether I dug the series solely based on that Nostalgic feel of the character I remember vaguely.
Nice blazer, Ethan. (One of these kids is not like the others! One of these kids is doing his own thing!)
Another great conversation. I love how it ended like a newscast.
Timeless books are generally new ideas. Nostalgia books will never stand the test of time.
One of the greatest editors in the industry had one motto: "Be Original". And gotta say; Mr. Julius Schwartz was absolutely right.
I love how Ben, Sal, and Tiffany are dressed up and Ethan's just wearing a Pac Man T-Shirt
Thank you, Sal, for representing my view on nostalgia! It's so much fun and absolutely a challenge/treasure hunt for me too! I only started reading DC in 2013/2014 and I started because of the Young Justice cartoon. I went and read the comic. Then I read Superboy, Impulse, and Robin. Then I read Nightwing and Batgirl and Teen Titans/New Teen Titans/Titans, and Supergirl and Green Lantern and Outsiders and so on and now I own 4693 physical copies of comics, as well as books I only own digitally. It's only been a few years reading/collecting DC for me but I feel steeped in backstory and growth for these characters that I love and only grew to love because I was curious about what characters were referring to on panel or in editor's notes. That's what makes being a comic fan fun for me.
NOSTALGIA, by Veidt
@ComicPOP Really like your take on seeing comics as a challenge especially because I never read comics. I watched a few movies and TV shows and went though a phase where I wanted to start and was very intimidating but very much so took it as a challenge! Love these news stories guys and girl!!!
I love the news anchor sounding intro hahahaha it's cheesy but in a good way lol
Is there a word for negative nostalgia? One of my dad's biggest pet peeves with comicbook movies and shows is that they keep going back to the same few events to hark back on. He's seen them beat Apocalypse or go to his future so many times that he just gets pissed when it happens
Wow that's a lot of Rebirth trades.
I like how the most serious guy is the least formally dressed. ETHAN
ahhhh! you made a show out of the discussions! cant wait for the next one! love you guys!
I remember when Marvel comics were flooded with footnotes that included cute tags like "Stick to the Subject Stan." One issue that I remember being over 50% footnotes was a Cosmic Captain Marvel called "Trial of the Watcher." Every other panel had a footnote providing "evidence" of Uatu the Watcher's habit of interfering with Earth-threatening events that prompted him to "bend the rules" in later issues of the Fantastic Four and other books. DC did it more often on their Justice League titles than others. Before it was a Vertigo title, Sandman referenced in the "Season of Mist" collection a DC one-shot "The Last Days of the Justice Society of America" which featured a "Ragnarok-type" scene where the JSA are fighting mythological characters. Oddly they didn't use a footnote nor an actual notation explaining it in Season. I don't know whether the editor "dropped the ball" or simply thought that the story stood on its own as is. While I could understand if it was the latter, I strongly suspect that it was the former. Some could justifiably call footnoting a "marketing ploy" or "lazy writing" but I enjoyed it at the time and can understand why the time has passed and it's rarely practiced today.
Nostalgia can create a unfair bias towards older books and make people who have nostalgia for older books more skeptical towards new characters and books.
Shawn Zamir FFXV that's basically marvel right now. Because dc is bringing back the old stuff
a great vision or look at nostalgia is the timmverse justice league episode "legends" where the league get pulled into an alternate world that is controlled by what is essentially the nostalgia of a comic book fan.
This what great, I'd love to see this become a regularly occurring show for the channel.
The case of the nostalgia in comic books in the current comic book atmosphere is interesting. D.C. Rebirth banks on it , and thrives in it using old status quo in their stories while Marvel has decided to create new things and do stories that you don't see much in Big 2 comics ( how the execution of both has gone is up to debate)
About the Flash thing, it's interesting because before and during new 52 DC did to all the Flashes what Tiff said "Get them out of here"and that was, without doubt, a Geoff Johns thing, he loves the Silver Age characters so much he gave them the spotlight again and technically undid all the other Flashes but DC did it in such a horrible way that now they are starting to bring them back as an apology that even Johns had to be the one to bring Wally back.
Interesting that you comment on the 'Only Human' issues of Action Comics. I just started with that story, did not realise how different it is from the ongoing series overall.
Every time you guys said "Nostalgia" I was expecting the next word to be "Ultra"
I feel like the only reason new 52 sold so well is because they went all-out on the ad campaign. I remember seeing commercials on tv for new 52! I haven't seen any commercials for D.C. Rebirth.
extreme animation studios I've seen one on Trutv but only a couple times.
extreme animation studios People bought it because they thought it was gonna be a complete reset which it was and it wasn't.
I feel like the problem of nostalgia is deeply connected to the discussion of continuity and online distribution. I am really surprised that the big two never made a starter kit where you chose three hero's and got three Essential runs on the selected characters for like 12-16 dollars.
I feel that, if editors do a nostalgic story about something that's really old, and little people know, and new kids read it, they will notice that it is different, but they may think that it feels new, since they don't have nostalgia about it. Talking about Action Comics, some kids might think that the story felt diferent, but not old, since they don't have a reference to how old comics felt like, they could end up thinking "this new style is really cool!"
Nostalgia is why we have Barry Allen as the Flash and why we have Hal Jordan as the Green Lantern. The DC editorial grew up with Jordan and Allen so they brought them back even though we had better characters to replace them.
Very good argument, and both old and new readers, ie sql and tiff, ben and ethan both have valid points. If you think about it and epand a bit, mark hamill will be the joker for so many people. There is no other, yet he is not seen, only heard in a cartoon. Also heath ledger will always be the visible batman. Comics catch a moment in time and as sal said, going back to read comics that as a teenager I saved my moneh for, I buy now and think differently about.
Scrolling down to read the comments and they're all about Ethan's clothes haha
i think nostalgia can bring in new readers by making a reader want to go back and fill in the gaps especially if the writer is good at showing how impactful and legendary the stories are.... i have a friend whos a newbie and started reading new 52 flash.. he never touched pre52 cuz of all the continuity and he read dc rebirth and when he saw the relationship with bary and wally he was interested in reading wally's run to know how they became so close then he learnt abt the teen titans,crisis on infinite earth, grant morrisons jla,final crisis etc
"Nostalgia is longing for a thing which never really was" - Milan Kundera
I like this new show btw! You are great as always
Nostalgia Comic Characters = Gambit, but I still love that Cajun trench coat wearing thief
Stay tuned next week ;)
The RED Samurai fuck gambit
I Never Miss a video, can't wait!!!
I love Gambit so much.
Completely agree lol Gambit is cool but he hasn't done shit😂 But everyone thinks he deserves his own movie and series
We need to do a vote on who's jacket is the best. I vote for Sal's jacket. Thats my type of politics.
Extremely well done!
I think nostalgia was bad for legacy characters like Kyle Rayner or Wally West when DC brought back their Silver Age counterparts in the mid-2000s. They stopped the forward momentum DC had with it's legacy characters. It happened to Spider-Man as well. Where they stopped moving forward with Peter in new roles, like being a teacher and possibly a father.
Great discussion guys
*puts on blazer for comic line episode*
I dug this, looking forward to the next comic line!
Holy shit, your show is Great!!! How have I never seen you guys before? 🤓
Love the "talking head" Format. keep it up, great show!
Missed this!!!!!
Love the jackets.
Haha Ethan forgot his suit this time XD
Great discussion I think ComicPOP said it all nostalgia is great in small doses but, the creators if they choose to dwell in the past should look at what worked and, what didn't and, allow the Stories to feel natural and, organic while still keeping true to the characters. Or on the other hand picking up a thread and, running with it and making a retcon while no right or wrong answers for this it really depends on quality of said comic and how well it can hold up through time which once again is subjective but a great thought process thanks again. I will say Iconic looks go a long way in terms of Nostalgia
I clapped! I clapped when I saw pre-New 52 Superman!
Insightful as always. Transformers the movie (80's animated), Akira, Morisson Doom Patrol, Simonson's Thor, Ellis' Planetary are all "good" nostalgia. They inform the characters, I can still watch/read them now enjoy them and not grit my teeth. I'd show them to new audiences (Ive commented to death on Planetary. Someday on Back Issues PLEASE!!!). The last Indy Jones flick, the Gi Joe/Transformers remakes (except for hearing Optimus on screen again was amazing that first time) just a lot of nostalgia remakes tend to miss the mark. I think I'd rather do a Star Wars and see a remastered Alien in theatres than Alien by fuckin.... Guillermo Del Toro for example. But, I also want my beloved properties to live. If Remender wants to pen a Planetary sequel, I'll buy it just cause. Nostalgia I guess lol. You guys are awesome as is the POPulation.
This makes me think of characters like the Shadow, Flash Gordon, and the Phantom, which are as serviceable as any similar character, but just can't get a modern audience.
I think nearly any character can succeed with the right creative team. Except SuperPro.
22:48
MY EYES
Nostalgia isn't bad as long as you don't hinder new ideas
Did Ben steal Ethan's serious jacket?
Ben looks good in a blazer 😍
Am I wrong in saying New 52 Aquaman, at least what was written by Johns was pretty freaking good.
When talking about Action Comics, as far as I can tell, wasn't the past two issues of Action Comics written by a different writer than Dan Jurgens?
Ethan better have a full on tuxedo next episode
People say "Nostalgia is not what it used to be."
i remember reading grant morrisson batman when bat mite appeared and batman became purple.
if it wasn't or the french editor putting pages of context telling me what the hell i was reading, i would have just stop reading.
Comics thrive primarily through nostalgia but sentimentality creates the "collector". So the trick is creating sentimentality by using ones personal nostalgia. Blending new and old concepts will always do this that's why there is a certain amount of recycling. Bc nostalgia breeds sentimentality
I'm kind of a nostalgia freak. Growing up in such a popular time for comics, it's hard not to miss that a bit. So I grab out my oldies & I am shameles s. A lot of current stuff is just meh so I don't mind hitting a favorite classic.
Lol What's with the formal type clothing ??
Next episode ben won't be wearing a jacket lol xp
Eh, i would argue that the New 52 used a lot of nostalgia for the Pre-Crisis era when it started.
*throws 2 cents in ha* Maybe Ethan being Jacket-less is a set design decision. Basically to break up the color scheme ha.
X-men is 100% nostaligia, haven't had good stories in 20 years but still people talk about how great they are.
Hiphopopotamus Matt Fraction's run was very good and brought me back to Uncanny X-Men for a few years, but Messiah Complex made me drop all the X-titles. Just wasn't for me.
Hiphopopotamus kinda hard to get good x men stories with the way marvel treats them over movie rights
Was a problem long before movie rights.
Comicline is still a thing??! I'm pleasantly surprised.
the problem I am having with dc rebirth is that the entire universe feels really emotionally unfocused.
What's with all the blazers?
Have you stopped make these, comic line video? because i really enjoyed them @comicpop
Ethan should host a StarWars show!!!!!!
ETHAN
JACKET
They remember it so you don't have to.
😂 Ethan has a T-Shirt
I enjoyed the first 2 volumes of New 52 Superman Action Comics, where he was still discovering his powers and couldn't fly. That was great. Overall though, New 52 Superman wasn't that good.
yep. if for no other reason than a lot of comic fans liking to hide their isms behind nostalgia.
Nostalgia isn't really a personal thought, to be honest. It's a cultural experience, the memories that culture reinforces. That's why you can have nostalgia for things you were never around for, and for things that aren't actually good, because the culture has recognised them as emblematic of an era and so furthered them. It's like a ghost of the past, this imaginary 'strong notion' people have of what a particular time or place might've been like.
For example, have you ever felt nostalgic about Paris in the 1920s? But you've never been to Paris in the 1920s. Yet you can imagine music, and walking along the Seine, and seeing the Eiffel Tower lit at night. Never mind that it was actually lit by a giant advert for Citroen, and so your understanding is far weaker than you might think it is; it's just this feeling of 'France' that culture found important to pass around the English-speaking circle. You cannot possibly know it, and you don't, but at the same time you 'do', in this telephone game sort of way.
But that then raises the question-what if it's _not_ your cultural memory? Which I think also has a simple illustration. Everybody in the western world has the ability to have a strong nostalgia for 60s anime, and they might be able to go back and read 50s Tezuka manga because of the crossover between 60s anime, 50s manga and 40s Americana, but if you go two decades back to Japanese newspaper comics, there's no nostalgia anymore. It's no longer your cultural imprint of what old Japanese comics are. You don't know what this is, and you're actually aware of it this time.
I think nostalgia is a good thing but you need to be able to unclinch and accept that times have changed.
To Sal's ThunderCats analogy, I feel the same way about TCs. As an adult I find it horribly boring but I'm still excited for the property and have been pushing and hoping for it to be modernized.
Modernizing is important but you will always lose something in generational translation. You kind of have to accept that.
What if moon girl became iron man instead of roti William
I like the couch better
I'm sorry but it's tough to take this serious when u guys are wearing blazers with regular t's under them lol not to be a jerk but it feels a little forced. I'd recommend wearing what u want like Ethan. Btw I absolutely love the channel keep up the fantastic work!