I have everything to thank to Neil.. after carefully listening to what he says, I now ride my bike with no pain, aches or numbness what so ever. I adjusted my bike according to all his info. Thank you both. You have a golden nugget having Neil on your channel. Other bike fit videos they are not even close. Again thank you!!
I have two SQ Labs saddles, which I bought after Neill recommended them on this channel. I bought the 611 (non-active) first, by accident, and that one is on my road bike. I put a 612 Active on my trainer. I've since done over 5,000 miles on the two of them. I get some super minor issues after riding the trainer, so I'll probably switch that one to a 611, as well. I don't think the 'active' version works well for me. At any rate, the SQ Labs saddle is my current favorite. I made it a habit to stand for a minute out of every ten, just to relieve pressure off my sit bone area. Doing that, I can ride for over five hours comfortably on these saddles. I can't do that with any others, so they'll be on my bikes until I find something that works better for me. Thanks for the tip!
I just got one of these last week, after watching the first video of Neill recommending it (switching from a Fizik Arione Classic, which I find to be comfortable for up to 65-80mi). I've only had it on for 1 ride so far, but stopped a few times to adjust. I found the fore/aft position to be a very small window to dial in. 5mm farther far back and it feels like I'm sitting on the nose. 5mm farther forward and you hit that "rear shelf" and it feels like sitting on a speedbump. At the "just right" fore/aft it was quite nice though. Then with the front of the saddle set level to the ground I was having the same issue you were with sliding forward and constantly pushing back against the saddle to keep myself from sliding down onto the nose. I ended up going slightly nose-up on the saddle angle just enough that I stopped sliding down. Then it started feeling really comfortable. Looking forward to going out and dialing it in some more, but now it's been "40% chance of thunderstorms" for the last 4 days so I haven't been able to ride. (edit: side-note, I also run 165 cranks, but haven't encountered that hip issue)
@@rogerhartley4456 It's been raining here the last week so I haven't been able to get out much, but I did a 26mi and a 104mi ride on the saddle. It held up well for an imperial century. No major discomfort. I fiddled with the saddle angle a bit more, and I ended up having it at a 5-degree nose up angle (measured on the front half of the saddle) to keep myself from constantly sliding forward. That sounds like a lot of angle considering I used to run a Fizik Arione with a 0.7-degree down-angle, but it still feels comfortable so far, so we'll see how it goes. I also switched to the "soft" (white) elastomer. I'm 160lbs but ride pretty light on the saddle (from riding hardtail MTB for 20 yrs, I'm accustomed to holding myself slightly off the saddle over rough terrain) but I'm not sure if there was really any noticeable difference between medium and soft.
I tried this saddle through a demo shop after watching the first video. The thing that I really noticed was the flatter shape really helped support my sit bones and the numbness is definitely reduced. According to all the measuring and sizing recommendations, I should have been happy with a 14. I was able to demo both the 14 and 15 and found the 15 to have just that touch more support that allowed me to get on the saddle and not be shifting around during the ride. I started with it zero'd and level and have been really happy with it. For me, it worked. Love the RCA content!
Thanks for the videos, I put the SQ Labs on all my bikes after testing one and have 4000 miles on them since and love them. I know they don't work for everyone but the info on fitting has help me out greatly. This video and the one about moving my cleats back have solved all my numbness. Ty.
Cam, thank you for yet a great video covering a sensitive subject for me and I’m sure so many other individuals. I love when you partner with Neil, what a professional 💯👊🏻
Appreciate the honest, pros and cons assessment. 👏👏Im fed up with cloyingly positive online reviews of bikes and equipment, often donated or sponsored of course
I picked up the 612 active in a 14mm and it solved 90% of my problems related to significant discomfort that I almost gave up road biking. I also have the wanting to move back situation, but not the hip problem. They have the 612 R out now... I believe that is a little steeper at the rear most shelf elevation to help with the moving back. If they have optimized the flex as they say.... maybe the active won't be necessary. Going to try that as well and see how it goes. Not searching for weight loss...just comfort.
Works great! YMMV - I'm a 6'2" 200 lbs with pack. History of long and olympic length Triathlon, now exclusively MTB. (Very comfortable spinning). Good judge perhaps of a saddle is forgetting it's there. 0/0 initial setup and no slip, no pain. This saddle is awesome! 611 for mtb climbing no long feeling about to be violated. Better control of bike. Again, YMMV but IMHO this saddle is the the one I've looked for!
I've tried a ton of saddles and the Sq-labs saddle is amazing it is my all time favorite I can do a century ride and the only time I think about the saddle is when I'm thinking damn this is such a great seat. After 100 miles my ass feels like it only did my morning work commute.
Great vid Cam, and nice to see an honest review of your experience. Finding the perfect saddle is such trial and error - I’m still searching and currently going through a bike fit process to sort out a few issues. If you and Neil have any tips for IT band issues I’d love to hear them 👍
I'm using mine for about 3 months now and I'm very happy with it. I suffered saddle discomfort for years. Some rides were torture for me. I've bought 611 active for my road bike, because I wanted more comfort. Now, I forget, that I'm sitting on something while riding :)
Are you still happy with the 611? I am now considering the 611 2.1 vs the 612 for the additional padding (100km races, also planning to do some 200km ones)
I had to "LEARN" not to shift my sit bones around on the saddle as much as possible during high intensity efforts in the late 1990's with my boss . He was a coach at Dulwich Hill club at the time .
I got the 612 and later the 611 after finding out about them from Neil. Had very hard time figuring out where to sit.Absolutely have overstressed hip flexors and now know why.Love these saddles and thank you Neil for explaining their caveats. Can not imagine riding anything else. SQ Labs needs to watch this vid and modify their instructions to include this info.
Best saddle. The only saddle that I can use to sit 2+ hours on a stationary trainer without numbness. For my road bike with a racier seating position, the 612R Carbon is tops!
@Cam maybe you can tilt it back about 4deg which is how mine is set up. I never run a saddle horizontal but then Ive never really had perenium issues either 👍
Hi J Lee, interesting suggestion. I had to do that with my Selle SMP Lite 209. It did not cause any perenium issues, but made the seat more comfortable. I think the standard advice to have the seat level should not be taken as hard and fast rule when testing out a new seat.
Just ordered one because I have a MASSIVE problem with perenium issues after 30 minutes in the saddle. For me that enjoy longer rides this is a big problem. I'll update with the test of this one in about 1-2 weeks!
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 Haven't got so much time in the saddle as I wanted because I had an accident so my carbon frame is in for repairs at the moment. (no crash) I managed 3 rides with the new saddle 30-80km. When you are seated on the correct place on the saddle I had no issue with perenium pressure but I could "slip" down sometimes and it would come back right away. Then I just had to "jump" up again and pain went away. What I did notice tho is how much pressure is put on the sit bones. So had some discomfort there but I also bought a new set of bibs (Assos Cento) and that discomfort almost went away. Please note that I'm 183cm and 106kg so pretty heavy... therefor maybe more pressure on the sit bones then a normal weight person.
@@WalkthroughHeroes hey mate, if you're still slipping forward, may I suggest raising the nose in very small increments until you no longer feel that you slide forward... the pressure to the sitbones will commonly initially increase, but with regular riding this should also become less of an issue as your sitbones will get used to it, and pressure to the sitbones is better than in the perineal area.
Great information there and thank you for the review, I have managed to source a 611 active in the UK (slightly longer but identical to the 612 in all aspects). I will update you on my findings once I get some miles on it.
@Colin The 611 also has a slightly wider nose and slightly softer and thicker shell as well as the kevlar protection around the sides of the wings for offroad use ;-)
@@spooky8172 Thanks for the information bud, I have to say I find the saddle excellent. I never suffer from any pressure and find it very comfortable. I like it that much I have bought a second one for my turbo set up.
I've been looking for an update on how you liked switching to the 165mm cranks. From this video it sounds like you are still using them. I have 165s for my TT bike and am debating switching my road bike to 165 as well. I'd love to hear an update on how you have liked them and more importantly how it's affected your performance. If I missed a video where you talked about it, please direct me to it but I think I've watched just about every video since you made that change. Always appreciate your content. Keep it coming!
That's interesting! Actually left hip flexors issue pointed me to that vid! :) I am on 612R, and started to experience exactly that feeling in hip flexors, left side only; wondering if that could develop to two sides in future. In my case had to point nose a little up, otherwise was rotating heavily to front; bike is in not agressive setup ~6-7cm handlebar drop - CX used for all terrain riding. Also found out that for/aft setup is really a key with that saddle. Dialed everything in three rides, logged like 1k KMs and now flexors start shouting... hmmm... I think it's becoming more pronounced after heavier loads, like sprint training etc. I am also finding myself moving back and forth on the saddle, however less after dialing position, as above. Will switch to phenom for some time, will see.
I’ve been using SQLab saddles for the last few years. On my single speed I use the 610, full suspension 612 and my hardtail the 612 active. I also use the 711 grips on my mountain bikes. Excellent ergonomic products, down the road I will upgrade to the carbon road drop bar on my carbon road bike. Getting fitted for the saddle is essential
Have been using a 612 for approx 4 years on my long distance bike, used for audax riding and ultra races. I have tried several saddles, but the SQlab Ergowave is the best for many many hours in the saddle, of course I still get some issues when I ride 20-30 hours, but less than with previous saddles.. I also ride with aero bars, but it is also coping that. I allways think og getting a better saddle, but so far I have stuck with the SQlab..
Didn't work for me either - I bought one based on Neil's earlier recommendation more so because I was intrigued by the elasto polymer in the context of ride comfort. What I found is that I could not detect any increase in comfort - maybe from fact that most of my cycling is on stone chip roads and the saddle structure comes in to the mid point which is directly below your spine. The biggest issue for me though was that it was too wide and flat across the back of the saddle and effectively cut into me - expensive lesson learned I personally need a saddle that rounds off more aggressively f.ex I would better suit a Specialized Power Arc than the Specialized Power.
I changed to this seat at Neil's bikefit. So far I'm very happy with it..relieved my pressure and burning numbness..I was also on a too narrow saddle and even though this new saddle isn't as wide as my sit bones. ( Neil said I had the widest he's measured lol) I can feel my sitbones being supported
@@susanpolsen5669 That makes complete sense - with your wide sit bones a saddle that rounds off more would drop away and fail to support your sit bones whereas the wide flatter back of the SQ Labs saddle would support you. There can be a difference though between where the saddle supports you and where you contact the saddle - for me there was too much contact into my legs on the sides and back of the saddle.
I love to follow RCA on CZcams. A lot of useful and informative videos. Keep it up. SQLab...Hm, what to say? After riding on Selle SLR for 10 years (Fully aware of it not fit me 100%) I went to a bikefit and after trying up to 12 different saddles I ended up with a SQLab 611 active. Now after 2 weeks of riding my conclusion is that this is the worst saddle for me ever. It feels like ok when riding the first hour, after that its just painful directly on the sitbones and from them the first 5cm down in each leg. So for me SQLab is not a solution and I will return the saddle to the bikefitter. Maybe I will try the SMP Junior...
I have samme issue, rode with sq lab saddle about 500km and 20+ hours, but still after 40 mins my sit bones start to hurt and i have to stand up every few minutes. Have u found another saddle which is better for ur sit bones?
I also tried SQ Labs following Neill advice, but as turned out my bum prefers saddles with gentle side slopes and since I ride with unpadded shorts it was too stiff -- I need firm, not spongy, cushioning. So I went back to my Scientia.
The saddle rail dimensions are 7mm X 9.6MM. - I have a TREK that has a seat post that uses the rotary head piece, they only have a 7mm X 10MM seat clamp. What are my options to use this saddle ??
So I’ve suffered with numbness for years cycling now and to the point where it limits the distance I could cycle. I bought the 612 SQ lab saddle following your last vlog and took it on a 70mile cycle this wknd. No numbness at all so great in this respect but my sit bone area felt extremely bruised and tender afterwards and whilst less now, I’ve still got some discomfort. Not sure whether I bought too narrow a saddle (measured myself…..). Would appreciate any feedback Neil S may be able to offer.
Neill told in the video that with this saddle you can reduce the angle of your pelvis and hips. But many cyclists have a problem with constricting blood vessels in that area. As a result, too little blood flows to the legs and acidification quickly sets in. Isn't the risk of getting this problem made worse by a forward rotating pelvis?
Hi Cam. When will we see a review of your best bike? The Factor. Will we see a second review of the Windspace now that it's been tweeked? So much possible content to look forward to in lockdown 😎
I ordered the 612 active, I'm hoping it works well for me! My only concern is I could only find the 15cm in stock when I think I should be getting the 14. after trying 5 saddles, I'm hoping it solves my remaining discomfort.
I’ve had perineum issues for years and have tried every saddle under the sun. The SQ Labs is by far the best. I actually sit on the front edge of the rear shelf, which seems to give maximum clearance for the important stuff.
I did order the 612 based on this video, and my seatbone was measured 14cm so i took the 15sm as recommended by sqlab, but what i realised after going out for a 50km ride that my thigs rub in the wings of the saddle. So is clear that i need a smaller size? Have you experience that with other customer customers? Is it always better to go smaller size than than big?
These videos are very informative, thanks for putting them out there. I'm 64 yrs. old and about to give up riding because my ass hurts really bad. I'm currently using a Selle Smp and curious if the SQlab 602 might help ? I ride a comfort style bike and am generally at about a 45 degree angle.
Tried a few of their saddles in different widths. Didn't quite work for me. There is no Magic Bullet with saddles no matter what anyone says because our anatomies are all different.
Interesting. I almost went for one of these on my new Speedvagen, but wound up with an S-Works toupe instead… also interested to hear your thoughts on the VAM!
I had the same issues as you cam, somewhat very disappointed because I bought the saddle because of watching your vlog. I didn't like that I kept slipping forward and it caused abit more pressure on my hands. Ive since switched to the pro stealth saddle and so far so good.
You just never know. Knowing you use 165 cranks, impingement has obviously been an ancillary inherent issue for you. Good subject content though. I find most polycarbonate saddles deform/morph once they warm up causing characteristic outcomes to vary so carbon is a more consistent experience
Thanks so much for putting this out there. Have been in the 612 active for about a month and seems like I’m having the exact same issue (hip flexors tighten up during/after every ride; shift around constantly trying to find the sweet spot even after countless adjustments to fore/aft and angle). Just swapped out my saddle for the Ergon that this saddle replaced and same experience - hip tightness gone, feel much more solid in the saddle. Mystery solved? I hope so!
Cam, have you tried a Fizik Aliante? If you like the locked in position of the SMP, the Aliante achieves similar results but looks much better on the bike.
Where are you in Australia, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or somewhere else? I would visit some time if you have a shop. I recently bought e-bike (otherwise I have recumbent trikes that do not have such issues). I am one of those who do not seem to fit on any saddle. I used to commute daily on bicycle in 1980-90s. It appear to me that Science and technology has improved lot of things in last decades but not bicycle saddles nor geometry to make riders comfortable.
Same issue here. Haven't tried this SQ saddle, but I had the same experience as you Cam. Tilted my saddle down slightly to get a little more anterior pelvic tilt to be a little more aero. Straight away was getting hamstring tightness, but pushed on into a big FTP block. 9-10 days in, woke up with anterior hip pain. It's been a week now, hardly training, and I still have the constant ache. How did you clear yours up? Just rest?
I picked one up based on your videos. It solved my comfort issues but I also find myself sliding around. Been wondering if I should start my search for a new saddle.
@@h4rdcor31 curious to hear where you are at now after reading your comment? Did you raise the nose in small increments? That should then at some point 'cradle' you so that you no longer slide around.
So I have a question on this saddle the 612, I've been using the power comp from Specialized since it's release on all my bikes from road to emtb, however Ive always suffered from pressure downstairs hence why I purchased the comp, even though its a lot better after a few hours in the saddle on the mtb i still have a bit of an issue with downstairs, So im wondering if this saddle would be fine for use on an MTB /emtb? - Note that the current saddle is nose down around 1.4-1.5degress which seems to be best for me as ive tried many angles and fits etc.
I have th 612 for 3 years great saddle then I moved to 612r 2 months ago because I was getting and uncomfy pain around my seat bone so I assume that the saddle is worn out so I bought the new 612r and refit my position the annoying and uncomfy still there
This une unfortunetly made my problems worse. Hip flexor inpingement, constant digging in to my tighs etc. I tried every position and couldn't find it. Worst part is, both of my legs would lose blood supply pretty quickly. I still have the carbon version size 14. I moved to Selle SMP Drakon, which seem to fit my body far better. Still experimenting with it but it gave me a lot of freedom and relief.
I have tried the same SQLab saddle and didnt feel right on it. I have found the saddles that work for me: Bontrager Aeolus Pro and the Bontrager XXX pure Carbon saddle. Like you I would never ever put an SMP saddle on one of my bikes. I just looks horrible :-)
I think a few more sessions with a slower ramping up of miles would have made this saddle work. It’s an incredible saddle. And maybe some stretching prior to riding. I would not give up on that saddle.
Would this 612 Active or a Brooks Cambium C17 be best for an indoor trainer? Looking to introduce a little more movement and comfort to the indoor setup
I’ve had a multitude of saddles (including the 612) but still suffered with sitbone pain. I tried a Cambium C13 Carved recently, and it was the worst saddle I’ve ever tried, but with a caveat. The way it acts like a hammock and adapts to the shape of your pelvis is great, but the carved version of the saddle is incredibly flexible, so there was absolutely no stability or support whilst riding. It felt like I was sat on a space hopper or gym ball, bouncing all over the bike. The non carved versions are much harder, so may provide more support. Good luck.
I bought one of these for my indoor wattbike. Was getting real sore perineum after 45-60 mins which doesn't happen outdoors on real bike. This saddle unfortunately didn't cure the indoor problem but an upgrade to a better pad (castelli) made much more of a improvement.
You want the lower part of the seat to be flat / straight. Personally I would not tilt forward as you already slightly get that sensation with the saddle. Have a slight play over a few rides and see what works best for you. Cam
Finally I rollback to my Ergon SM, I had hip pain and the problem was exactly what Neils said, I feel most confortable and stable with my hips opened. Thanks guys for your vids ;)
With all due respect to your fitter, which I think he is great, personally I think you need try an endurance bike with bigger slack. I wouldn’t be surprised if he already told you the same thing. You look like you over reaching and your back is way too over extended. There is a reason why one of the best fitters in the planet can’t fit you. I had same issue with aero and very racy bikes. It’s funny think how body doesn’t want to adapt over certain age.
One of my viewers just sent sent this video to me and I realize I had already made a comment on here, I just released another video on my channel about the SQ Lab Saddles. Discussing the differences between active and non-active versions. I noticed you were riding a active version of the 612 I strongly suggest you Install a non-active saddle and raise the height slightly and/or forward (mms of movement will dramatically improve the fit on this saddle) and your hip impingement issues will go away. The non-active saddle is significantly more comfortable in every way to the Active saddle. Furthermore, it’s my humble opinion that hip impingement is not saddle-based, issue but saddle height or fore and aft issue. Here’s my video on it. czcams.com/video/cdnSjo79L_E/video.html
Thanks to Neil and your channel for putting me onto this saddle. Absolute game changer. The long rides are much easier and comfier than ever before
I have everything to thank to Neil.. after carefully listening to what he says, I now ride my bike with no pain, aches or numbness what so ever. I adjusted my bike according to all his info. Thank you both. You have a golden nugget having Neil on your channel. Other bike fit videos they are not even close. Again thank you!!
That is AWESOME to hear Dragan, thanks for sharing. Much appreciated. Cam
I have two SQ Labs saddles, which I bought after Neill recommended them on this channel. I bought the 611 (non-active) first, by accident, and that one is on my road bike. I put a 612 Active on my trainer. I've since done over 5,000 miles on the two of them.
I get some super minor issues after riding the trainer, so I'll probably switch that one to a 611, as well. I don't think the 'active' version works well for me.
At any rate, the SQ Labs saddle is my current favorite. I made it a habit to stand for a minute out of every ten, just to relieve pressure off my sit bone area. Doing that, I can ride for over five hours comfortably on these saddles. I can't do that with any others, so they'll be on my bikes until I find something that works better for me.
Thanks for the tip!
I just got one of these last week, after watching the first video of Neill recommending it (switching from a Fizik Arione Classic, which I find to be comfortable for up to 65-80mi). I've only had it on for 1 ride so far, but stopped a few times to adjust. I found the fore/aft position to be a very small window to dial in. 5mm farther far back and it feels like I'm sitting on the nose. 5mm farther forward and you hit that "rear shelf" and it feels like sitting on a speedbump. At the "just right" fore/aft it was quite nice though. Then with the front of the saddle set level to the ground I was having the same issue you were with sliding forward and constantly pushing back against the saddle to keep myself from sliding down onto the nose. I ended up going slightly nose-up on the saddle angle just enough that I stopped sliding down. Then it started feeling really comfortable. Looking forward to going out and dialing it in some more, but now it's been "40% chance of thunderstorms" for the last 4 days so I haven't been able to ride. (edit: side-note, I also run 165 cranks, but haven't encountered that hip issue)
Interesting to hear Jeff, thanks for sharing on the thread mate. Cam
Would love to hear how you are going after a few rides Jeff.
@@rogerhartley4456 It's been raining here the last week so I haven't been able to get out much, but I did a 26mi and a 104mi ride on the saddle. It held up well for an imperial century. No major discomfort. I fiddled with the saddle angle a bit more, and I ended up having it at a 5-degree nose up angle (measured on the front half of the saddle) to keep myself from constantly sliding forward. That sounds like a lot of angle considering I used to run a Fizik Arione with a 0.7-degree down-angle, but it still feels comfortable so far, so we'll see how it goes. I also switched to the "soft" (white) elastomer. I'm 160lbs but ride pretty light on the saddle (from riding hardtail MTB for 20 yrs, I'm accustomed to holding myself slightly off the saddle over rough terrain) but I'm not sure if there was really any noticeable difference between medium and soft.
Another great video Cam and Neill. Always find the bike fit related videos the most valuable and interesting.
👍
I tried this saddle through a demo shop after watching the first video. The thing that I really noticed was the flatter shape really helped support my sit bones and the numbness is definitely reduced. According to all the measuring and sizing recommendations, I should have been happy with a 14. I was able to demo both the 14 and 15 and found the 15 to have just that touch more support that allowed me to get on the saddle and not be shifting around during the ride. I started with it zero'd and level and have been really happy with it. For me, it worked. Love the RCA content!
Interesting to hear Kevin, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Thanks for the videos, I put the SQ Labs on all my bikes after testing one and have 4000 miles on them since and love them. I know they don't work for everyone but the info on fitting has help me out greatly. This video and the one about moving my cleats back have solved all my numbness. Ty.
Awesome to hear that Brad, thanks for sharing on the thread mate.
If you keep sliding forward then tilt it +2% up and you will slip forward less and potentially still alleviate the pressure on the sensitive bits.
Also thanks so much for all the work on this topic as like I said it helped so much and thanks to Neil!!!!!!
Love the honesty. Great videos
Cam, thank you for yet a great video covering a sensitive subject for me and I’m sure so many other individuals. I love when you partner with Neil, what a professional 💯👊🏻
Cheers James, Cam
It’s working well for me helping a lot with my pelvic floor issues. So glad Neil shared, snd I got the 612 ergo wave active.
Nice one Jared, thanks for sharing on the thread. Cam
This one fortunately solved all my issues.
That's awesome to hear mate, thanks for sharing on the thread. Cam
Appreciate the honest, pros and cons assessment. 👏👏Im fed up with cloyingly positive online reviews of bikes and equipment, often donated or sponsored of course
Cheers mate, Cam
I picked up the 612 active in a 14mm and it solved 90% of my problems related to significant discomfort that I almost gave up road biking. I also have the wanting to move back situation, but not the hip problem. They have the 612 R out now... I believe that is a little steeper at the rear most shelf elevation to help with the moving back. If they have optimized the flex as they say.... maybe the active won't be necessary. Going to try that as well and see how it goes. Not searching for weight loss...just comfort.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing on the thread Jamie.
Best saddle Ive owned but I guess everyone is different. Found it most comfortable when climbing in the saddle
Thanks for sharing J Lee and you're spot on there.
Works great! YMMV - I'm a 6'2" 200 lbs with pack. History of long and olympic length Triathlon, now exclusively MTB. (Very comfortable spinning).
Good judge perhaps of a saddle is forgetting it's there. 0/0 initial setup and no slip, no pain. This saddle is awesome! 611 for mtb climbing no long feeling about to be violated. Better control of bike. Again, YMMV but IMHO this saddle is the the one I've looked for!
I've tried a ton of saddles and the Sq-labs saddle is amazing it is my all time favorite I can do a century ride and the only time I think about the saddle is when I'm thinking damn this is such a great seat. After 100 miles my ass feels like it only did my morning work commute.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Mike. Cam
Great vid Cam, and nice to see an honest review of your experience. Finding the perfect saddle is such trial and error - I’m still searching and currently going through a bike fit process to sort out a few issues. If you and Neil have any tips for IT band issues I’d love to hear them 👍
Thanks S G, we'll be sure to add that to the list for future content.
Love your videos. I'm not a competitive cyclist but still find the content clear and relevant. Keep it up
Thanks for the kind words Joseph, much appreciated. Cam
I'm using mine for about 3 months now and I'm very happy with it. I suffered saddle discomfort for years. Some rides were torture for me. I've bought 611 active for my road bike, because I wanted more comfort. Now, I forget, that I'm sitting on something while riding :)
Awesome to hear this Marek, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Are you still happy with the 611? I am now considering the 611 2.1 vs the 612 for the additional padding (100km races, also planning to do some 200km ones)
@@kpsig Yes. I think additional padding works.
I had to "LEARN" not to shift my sit bones around on the saddle as much as possible during high intensity efforts in the late 1990's with my boss . He was a coach at Dulwich Hill club at the time .
I got the 612 and later the 611 after finding out about them from Neil. Had very hard time figuring out where to sit.Absolutely have overstressed hip flexors and now know why.Love these saddles and thank you Neil for explaining their caveats. Can not imagine riding anything else. SQ Labs needs to watch this vid and modify their instructions to include this info.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Mike
Hi Mike which of them you prefer 612 or 611 on your road bike and why? I'm looking for a new saddle and I'm in dilemma between 611 and 612.
@@SladjanNikolic same dilemma here! Which one did you finally get?
@@kpsig I got 611 as per SQ Lab's recommendation. Keep in mind that I ride a gravel bike. So far I'm happy with the saddle.
Best saddle. The only saddle that I can use to sit 2+ hours on a stationary trainer without numbness. For my road bike with a racier seating position, the 612R Carbon is tops!
@Cam maybe you can tilt it back about 4deg which is how mine is set up. I never run a saddle horizontal but then Ive never really had perenium issues either 👍
Hi J Lee, interesting suggestion. I had to do that with my Selle SMP Lite 209. It did not cause any perenium issues, but made the seat more comfortable. I think the standard advice to have the seat level should not be taken as hard and fast rule when testing out a new seat.
I almost wanted to get the SQLAB 612 to try
this video stopped me.
thanks!
Just ordered one because I have a MASSIVE problem with perenium issues after 30 minutes in the saddle.
For me that enjoy longer rides this is a big problem. I'll update with the test of this one in about 1-2 weeks!
Nice one mate, thanks for sharing and let us know how you get on! Cam
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 Haven't got so much time in the saddle as I wanted because I had an accident so my carbon frame is in for repairs at the moment. (no crash)
I managed 3 rides with the new saddle 30-80km. When you are seated on the correct place on the saddle I had no issue with perenium pressure but I could "slip" down sometimes and it would come back right away. Then I just had to "jump" up again and pain went away.
What I did notice tho is how much pressure is put on the sit bones.
So had some discomfort there but I also bought a new set of bibs (Assos Cento) and that discomfort almost went away.
Please note that I'm 183cm and 106kg so pretty heavy... therefor maybe more pressure on the sit bones then a normal weight person.
@@WalkthroughHeroes hey mate, if you're still slipping forward, may I suggest raising the nose in very small increments until you no longer feel that you slide forward... the pressure to the sitbones will commonly initially increase, but with regular riding this should also become less of an issue as your sitbones will get used to it, and pressure to the sitbones is better than in the perineal area.
Great information there and thank you for the review, I have managed to source a 611 active in the UK (slightly longer but identical to the 612 in all aspects). I will update you on my findings once I get some miles on it.
Nice one Colin, let us know how it goes.
@Colin The 611 also has a slightly wider nose and slightly softer and thicker shell as well as the kevlar protection around the sides of the wings for offroad use ;-)
@@spooky8172 Thanks for the information bud, I have to say I find the saddle excellent. I never suffer from any pressure and find it very comfortable. I like it that much I have bought a second one for my turbo set up.
I've been looking for an update on how you liked switching to the 165mm cranks. From this video it sounds like you are still using them. I have 165s for my TT bike and am debating switching my road bike to 165 as well. I'd love to hear an update on how you have liked them and more importantly how it's affected your performance. If I missed a video where you talked about it, please direct me to it but I think I've watched just about every video since you made that change. Always appreciate your content. Keep it coming!
Cheers Ryan, I have been using them where possible. Too many bikes have gotten in the way! Cam
I miss my Toupe saddle. I am two SMP well and VT30 and not good
That's interesting! Actually left hip flexors issue pointed me to that vid! :) I am on 612R, and started to experience exactly that feeling in hip flexors, left side only; wondering if that could develop to two sides in future.
In my case had to point nose a little up, otherwise was rotating heavily to front; bike is in not agressive setup ~6-7cm handlebar drop - CX used for all terrain riding. Also found out that for/aft setup is really a key with that saddle. Dialed everything in three rides, logged like 1k KMs and now flexors start shouting... hmmm... I think it's becoming more pronounced after heavier loads, like sprint training etc. I am also finding myself moving back and forth on the saddle, however less after dialing position, as above.
Will switch to phenom for some time, will see.
I’ve been using SQLab saddles for the last few years. On my single speed I use the 610, full suspension 612 and my hardtail the 612 active. I also use the 711 grips on my mountain bikes.
Excellent ergonomic products, down the road I will upgrade to the carbon road drop bar on my carbon road bike.
Getting fitted for the saddle is essential
Have been using a 612 for approx 4 years on my long distance bike, used for audax riding and ultra races. I have tried several saddles, but the SQlab Ergowave is the best for many many hours in the saddle, of course I still get some issues when I ride 20-30 hours, but less than with previous saddles.. I also ride with aero bars, but it is also coping that. I allways think og getting a better saddle, but so far I have stuck with the SQlab..
Thanks for sharing on the thread! Cam
Didn't work for me either - I bought one based on Neil's earlier recommendation more so because I was intrigued by the elasto polymer in the context of ride comfort. What I found is that I could not detect any increase in comfort - maybe from fact that most of my cycling is on stone chip roads and the saddle structure comes in to the mid point which is directly below your spine. The biggest issue for me though was that it was too wide and flat across the back of the saddle and effectively cut into me - expensive lesson learned I personally need a saddle that rounds off more aggressively f.ex I would better suit a Specialized Power Arc than the Specialized Power.
Interesting to hear James, and thanks for sharing on the thread. Cam
I changed to this seat at Neil's bikefit. So far I'm very happy with it..relieved my pressure and burning numbness..I was also on a too narrow saddle and even though this new saddle isn't as wide as my sit bones. ( Neil said I had the widest he's measured lol) I can feel my sitbones being supported
@@susanpolsen5669 That makes complete sense - with your wide sit bones a saddle that rounds off more would drop away and fail to support your sit bones whereas the wide flatter back of the SQ Labs saddle would support you. There can be a difference though between where the saddle supports you and where you contact the saddle - for me there was too much contact into my legs on the sides and back of the saddle.
I love to follow RCA on CZcams. A lot of useful and informative videos. Keep it up. SQLab...Hm, what to say? After riding on Selle SLR for 10 years (Fully aware of it not fit me 100%) I went to a bikefit and after trying up to 12 different saddles I ended up with a SQLab 611 active. Now after 2 weeks of riding my conclusion is that this is the worst saddle for me ever. It feels like ok when riding the first hour, after that its just painful directly on the sitbones and from them the first 5cm down in each leg. So for me SQLab is not a solution and I will return the saddle to the bikefitter. Maybe I will try the SMP Junior...
I have samme issue, rode with sq lab saddle about 500km and 20+ hours, but still after 40 mins my sit bones start to hurt and i have to stand up every few minutes. Have u found another saddle which is better for ur sit bones?
Well darn. Been waiting on this follow up video. Wanna give that one away? Lol.
haha! Have to give it back to Neill unfortunately Andy
I also tried SQ Labs following Neill advice, but as turned out my bum prefers saddles with gentle side slopes and since I ride with unpadded shorts it was too stiff -- I need firm, not spongy, cushioning. So I went back to my Scientia.
The saddle rail dimensions are 7mm X 9.6MM. - I have a TREK that has a seat post that uses the rotary head piece, they only have a 7mm X 10MM seat clamp. What are my options to use this saddle ??
So I’ve suffered with numbness for years cycling now and to the point where it limits the distance I could cycle. I bought the 612 SQ lab saddle following your last vlog and took it on a 70mile cycle this wknd. No numbness at all so great in this respect but my sit bone area felt extremely bruised and tender afterwards and whilst less now, I’ve still got some discomfort. Not sure whether I bought too narrow a saddle (measured myself…..). Would appreciate any feedback Neil S may be able to offer.
I'd stick with it and let your body adapt to the new saddle... new saddles often cause a bit of afters discomfort until you get used to it.
Thanks for sharing Graham, Neill often reviews the comments, so hopefully he can get to this one. Cheers, Cam
I had the same exact problem with the saddle SMP (hip flexor pain, mostly in the morning)
I have been waiting for your review before taking the plunge and getting one. …….already had my measurement done though. 😉
Neill told in the video that with this saddle you can reduce the angle of your pelvis and hips. But many cyclists have a problem with constricting blood vessels in that area. As a result, too little blood flows to the legs and acidification quickly sets in. Isn't the risk of getting this problem made worse by a forward rotating pelvis?
Hi Cam. When will we see a review of your best bike? The Factor. Will we see a second review of the Windspace now that it's been tweeked? So much possible content to look forward to in lockdown 😎
haha, school holidays for me mate. Factor review next Wed on my personal channel. Cam
I ordered the 612 active, I'm hoping it works well for me! My only concern is I could only find the 15cm in stock when I think I should be getting the 14. after trying 5 saddles, I'm hoping it solves my remaining discomfort.
I couldn't really rotate my pelvis that well on this saddle. On the SMP Drankon so far it feels much more natural.
I’ve had perineum issues for years and have tried every saddle under the sun. The SQ Labs is by far the best.
I actually sit on the front edge of the rear shelf, which seems to give maximum clearance for the important stuff.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Will. Cam
I did order the 612 based on this video, and my seatbone was measured 14cm so i took the 15sm as recommended by sqlab, but what i realised after going out for a 50km ride that my thigs rub in the wings of the saddle. So is clear that i need a smaller size? Have you experience that with other customer customers? Is it always better to go smaller size than than big?
Hey Cam great vid today. I like the troupe ‘ too ….
These videos are very informative, thanks for putting them out there. I'm 64 yrs. old and about to give up riding because my ass hurts really bad. I'm currently using a Selle Smp and curious if the SQlab 602 might help ? I ride a comfort style bike and am generally at about a 45 degree angle.
I ordered a 612 and it should arrive soon this week. Hopefully it solves my pain issues at the sit bones (seems like the “pubic bone” area).
Now they have the: 613 ERGOWAVE
Hey there! Question for you two.
Have you tried the SQLabs Ergowave Active 2.1? I’m curious if that is a better pick then the standard.
Not me mate, I'll ask Neill though and maybe we can discuss in the future.
Tried a few of their saddles in different widths. Didn't quite work for me. There is no Magic Bullet with saddles no matter what anyone says because our anatomies are all different.
Thanks for sharing on the thread Nick and well said. Cam
I have sold SQ LAB saddles for 10 years as a fitter/shop owner I would’ve raised your saddle it looks low to me but you’re not in my foot studio 😊
My go to saddle is the Toupe also did you find another saddle that worked better for you I’m looking too. Please let me know.
they are ridiculous good. Im running none active 612s on all my bikes.
Well funnily enough I have noticed pain in both hips when trying this saddle on my Supersix, but not on my Domane on which I am more upright.
Maybe too late but why not try raising the nose? I had similar problems on my Power saddle and raising the nose solved it.
Interesting. I almost went for one of these on my new Speedvagen, but wound up with an S-Works toupe instead… also interested to hear your thoughts on the VAM!
Thanks for sharing Aubrey. Factor 02 VAM review will be next Wed on my personal channel. Cheers, Cam
I had the same issues as you cam, somewhat very disappointed because I bought the saddle because of watching your vlog. I didn't like that I kept slipping forward and it caused abit more pressure on my hands. Ive since switched to the pro stealth saddle and so far so good.
Interesting to hear mate, thanks for sharing on the thread
Why not tilt the nose up slightly?
You just never know. Knowing you use 165 cranks, impingement has obviously been an ancillary inherent issue for you. Good subject content though. I find most polycarbonate saddles deform/morph once they warm up causing characteristic outcomes to vary so carbon is a more consistent experience
Spesh discontinued the Toupe. WHY?!?!? Shakes head. Thx for the movement issue. Prolly saves me time looking at these. -U10
Thanks so much for putting this out there. Have been in the 612 active for about a month and seems like I’m having the exact same issue (hip flexors tighten up during/after every ride; shift around constantly trying to find the sweet spot even after countless adjustments to fore/aft and angle). Just swapped out my saddle for the Ergon that this saddle replaced and same experience - hip tightness gone, feel much more solid in the saddle. Mystery solved? I hope so!
Which Ergon did you swap it for? I have the same issues with the 612 active (15cm)
@@slowdownadventures the ergon sr pro - great saddle, but ultimately went with the pro stealth
@@mikekerr4728 cool, I just got the SR Allroad for my gravel bike and I love it! It fits me way better than the 612 Active
Cam, have you tried a Fizik Aliante? If you like the locked in position of the SMP, the Aliante achieves similar results but looks much better on the bike.
Where are you in Australia, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or somewhere else? I would visit some time if you have a shop. I recently bought e-bike (otherwise I have recumbent trikes that do not have such issues). I am one of those who do not seem to fit on any saddle. I used to commute daily on bicycle in 1980-90s. It appear to me that Science and technology has improved lot of things in last decades but not bicycle saddles nor geometry to make riders comfortable.
Same issue here. Haven't tried this SQ saddle, but I had the same experience as you Cam. Tilted my saddle down slightly to get a little more anterior pelvic tilt to be a little more aero. Straight away was getting hamstring tightness, but pushed on into a big FTP block. 9-10 days in, woke up with anterior hip pain. It's been a week now, hardly training, and I still have the constant ache. How did you clear yours up? Just rest?
Thanks for sharing Zac, yes I needed almost two weeks off HIIT in the end and swimming was excellent for it. Light jogging too
I picked one up based on your videos. It solved my comfort issues but I also find myself sliding around. Been wondering if I should start my search for a new saddle.
Interesting to hear Francium, maybe try the SMP
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 I'll refer to your own statement @7:22. I've been looking at the Specialized Bridge as a possible replacement.
@@h4rdcor31 curious to hear where you are at now after reading your comment? Did you raise the nose in small increments? That should then at some point 'cradle' you so that you no longer slide around.
Has the coloured point on the top (Black / Blue) some function or is it just design?
So I have a question on this saddle the 612, I've been using the power comp from Specialized since it's release on all my bikes from road to emtb, however Ive always suffered from pressure downstairs hence why I purchased the comp, even though its a lot better after a few hours in the saddle on the mtb i still have a bit of an issue with downstairs, So im wondering if this saddle would be fine for use on an MTB /emtb? - Note that the current saddle is nose down around 1.4-1.5degress which seems to be best for me as ive tried many angles and fits etc.
It looks so similar to Selle Italia SLR boost...
I have th 612 for 3 years great saddle then I moved to 612r 2 months ago because I was getting and uncomfy pain around my seat bone so I assume that the saddle is worn out so I bought the new 612r and refit my position the annoying and uncomfy still there
Great saddle! Do not use the active version! 😜
I wish I could find a saddle that helped my tendon issue
This une unfortunetly made my problems worse. Hip flexor inpingement, constant digging in to my tighs etc. I tried every position and couldn't find it. Worst part is, both of my legs would lose blood supply pretty quickly. I still have the carbon version size 14.
I moved to Selle SMP Drakon, which seem to fit my body far better. Still experimenting with it but it gave me a lot of freedom and relief.
Interesting to hear Tim, thanks for sharing on the thread. Cam
Unfortunately, I have the same issue with my SMP and 165mm cranks. After rides, my hip socket are sore. I guess will have to raise the front end.
Maybe try a seat that reduces rotation in the hip...the toupe maybe, my favourite!
I have tried the same SQLab saddle and didnt feel right on it. I have found the saddles that work for me: Bontrager Aeolus Pro and the Bontrager XXX pure Carbon saddle. Like you I would never ever put an SMP saddle on one of my bikes. I just looks horrible :-)
haha, thanks for sharing Alain and interesting to hear. Cam
I think a few more sessions with a slower ramping up of miles would have made this saddle work. It’s an incredible saddle. And maybe some stretching prior to riding. I would not give up on that saddle.
I reckon SMP saddles are cool. Italian style.🙂
Would this 612 Active or a Brooks Cambium C17 be best for an indoor trainer? Looking to introduce a little more movement and comfort to the indoor setup
Unsure Wayne I haven't tried the Brooks but perhaps Neill will see this Q and respond. Cheers, Cam
I’ve had a multitude of saddles (including the 612) but still suffered with sitbone pain. I tried a Cambium C13 Carved recently, and it was the worst saddle I’ve ever tried, but with a caveat.
The way it acts like a hammock and adapts to the shape of your pelvis is great, but the carved version of the saddle is incredibly flexible, so there was absolutely no stability or support whilst riding. It felt like I was sat on a space hopper or gym ball, bouncing all over the bike.
The non carved versions are much harder, so may provide more support. Good luck.
I bought one of these for my indoor wattbike. Was getting real sore perineum after 45-60 mins which doesn't happen outdoors on real bike. This saddle unfortunately didn't cure the indoor problem but an upgrade to a better pad (castelli) made much more of a improvement.
would a fizik antares be a substitute to this ? because I could get a used one pretty cheap
Not sure myself mate, hopefully Neill can get to the Q later on. Cam
Most important, how heavy is it? Will it be a anchor on your VAM? 😅
Haha! It’s quite heavy. The weight was in the original video and Neill had a crack at me - rightfully so - for mentioning it. 🤣
Take a look at primoz roclic's saddle, no way its an original fizik. I think its a custom full carbon berk 🤔 has a similar groove like the SQ 😉
Hi team, One follwer from Spain, one question, I have bought a sqlab 612 active and I´m a bit confused about the tilt. Any recomendation?
You want the lower part of the seat to be flat / straight. Personally I would not tilt forward as you already slightly get that sensation with the saddle. Have a slight play over a few rides and see what works best for you. Cam
@@roadcyclingacademy6476 Thanks Cam
Finally I rollback to my Ergon SM, I had hip pain and the problem was exactly what Neils said, I feel most confortable and stable with my hips opened. Thanks guys for your vids ;)
Are these better than smp's?
Cam ... what saddle did you say you're using normally? I didn't catch that.
Spesh Toupe
Yep Specialzied Toupe.
How would you say it compares to an ISM saddle?
Not sure mate I haven’t ridden that saddle before
Does anyone know of Australian/ NSW stockists of sq lab saddles?
Neill himself. neillsbikefit.com.au/
With all due respect to your fitter, which I think he is great, personally I think you need try an endurance bike with bigger slack. I wouldn’t be surprised if he already told you the same thing. You look like you over reaching and your back is way too over extended. There is a reason why one of the best fitters in the planet can’t fit you. I had same issue with aero and very racy bikes. It’s funny think how body doesn’t want to adapt over certain age.
God dammit I actually bought one just two days ago lol
It's a great saddle. Most comfortable I've used especially for really long 100+ mile rides.
@@goodolbiker thanks Mike, I bought the non active version with carbon rails.
I have the non active with Ti rails, it's a great saddle for me
Finding the right saddle; trial and error. And a saddle costing this much? I don’t know man...
One of my viewers just sent sent this video to me and I realize I had already made a comment on here,
I just released another video on my channel about the SQ Lab Saddles. Discussing the differences between active and non-active versions. I noticed you were riding a active version of the 612
I strongly suggest you Install a non-active saddle and raise the height slightly and/or forward (mms of movement will dramatically improve the fit on this saddle) and your hip impingement issues will go away. The non-active saddle is significantly more comfortable in every way to the Active saddle. Furthermore, it’s my humble opinion that hip impingement is not saddle-based, issue but saddle height or fore and aft issue.
Here’s my video on it.
czcams.com/video/cdnSjo79L_E/video.html
pretty cool but lets be honest. The saddle, like many, is produced for like 5 bucks and sold for over 100
SQLab, not Labs...
Thanks for the pick up
Nothing.
7:27 I'm with you, Cam, bike fitter wants me on a SMP saddle but I just can't do it to my bike! 🫣😂