War Thunder P51D30 vs Bf109G2/Trop | Looping
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2018
- Ammo:
-12.7mm: Universal
Convergence: 400m
Manual Engine Control settings:
-100% prop pitch
-80% radiators
Long fight between the P51D30 (me) and Bf109G2/Trop (dogeness)! Also my looping strategy is explained, as the loop was probably the most common maneuver in this fight...;) Let me know what your looping strategy is!
Sea level speed spreadsheet:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... - Hry
At 1:17 if you would have rolled a bit to the left. Like more pitching up and stayed with landing flaps you would have gotten guns on him. Anyways. Awesome video adam
Thanks!
I don't think so, it wasn't that close. Remember I'm using TAS, not IAS, so my speed was lower than it would seem.
Also I see you don't really use flaps much. Just in very specific situations. Is this to try and not to bleed to much speed? Cause me myself am a 1v1 player and constantly practice duels and am always switching between combat,takeoff, and landing flaps. And I mean ALOT. Also I tend to use rudder with my rolls that way I turn towards there direction quicker and in turn beat them in the turn which then leads to me getting guns on them first.. I use this a lot when am in a scissors. But yeah, everyone has there own play style.
In most situations flaps bleed energy. I've got a video planned comparing turns, turn radius and turn time between flap positions. I don't use rudder except on specific aircraft (Bf109). I think the rudder effect is mostly placebo ;).
Nyraxes i think using rudders on a sustained loop like on the video would make the plane pitch up less since the aircraft is slightly slanted from the pitch direction so that the wing area perpendicular to the weight of the craft pulling away from the turn would have a smaller area compared to using just the elevator.. just my thought though
This is why I don't fly in vr.. I had to take a puke after a 109e1 vs p40f fight.
The p51 D energy retention in this game is just fake that plane had shit retention but the games have done it to a turn fighter xD But nice skills adam as usually..
I love love the d30 but this video shows exactly why it doesn’t work in war thunder.
You will never ever ever ever fight a bf109 with 30 minutes of fuel, and you will always be saddled with a bunch of gas
The g2 is 4.3- the d30 always faces k4’s
If they let you drain half the fuel out of a p51 before a match it would shit on everything
D30 is as far from G2 in BR as K4, I don't think it faces significantly more 5.7 than 4.3 in my experience.
D30's fuel drains faster than the G2's, so while I agree that the G2 shouldn't load 30 minutes with this new 25 minute match time, D30's fuel won't be that much higher than a G2's after 10 minutes into the match I'd say.
Then the 109 gets to put in a fraction of the effort for a kill
#germanysuffers
What do you mean?
This is more like rolling scissors :/
Not really.
@@AdamTheEnginerd rolling scissors but some1 keeps going a different direction so you follow
What do I do if I'm the g2 and I go against the d variants (premium included) or when I'm a k4 and I go against a H variant
Make sure you start the engagement with the energy advantage and make passes. Don't follow if he makes a steep dive.
For K4 vs H, you'll need to run to teammates unless you have the energy advantage (which you won't necessarily have, they have roughly equal climb).
@@AdamTheEnginerd wish my teammates didn't always shoot me when I'm baiting
@@AdamTheEnginerd does the thrust thing with p51s work on 109s too?
Which thrust thing?
@@AdamTheEnginerd something about not weping.
Cool
Thanks!
Well, it's awesome! But the only problem, you do not have this much time in the battle to duel with someone))
Indeed, but it's useful to know what your options.
Aircraft with a better retention and turn would have the advantage in loops and horizontal turn fights. Also, does Energy Retention count for gaining back altitude? Like for example, you are diving and you climb back up,
Yeah linear ER counts when you are above your climb speed.
this is like watching a WWE match.
Hahaha why?
But when you are having the duel, the 190 appears and RAM you. Or you go up a lot and when you're going to kill someone your team is already dead. Or when the zeros get higher than you
Lol.
us 190s are always to the service of the comunity
Lööps, bröther. I desire more lööps
Lmao.
200th like!
Nice!
Just brilliant man! In all my time I never considered lead icon management such as this! I remember back in the day I was scouring youtube trying to find tips on 1v1. Glad these kind of things are here now!
Thanks man!
O bf 109 não tem agressividade , fez várias manobras estúpidas , é um nub
Euh alright then.
постанова чистой воды 100% Густав отдался как последняя дура.
looping on mustang and no engine overheating. Shithunder 10/10
What do you mean?
Great vid. Instant sub.
Thanks mate, welcome!
lol now I need to try the manual pitch control at low speeds for the 109s... I hope it actually is useful because the only problem to me when stall fighting with 109s is that absolutely horrendeous thrust and rolling characteristics at low speeds
The more powerful the Bf109 engine, the more it's worth it to use manual pitch at low speeds. For G2 and below it's not worth the trouble.
Do you manuever with S+W or do you just mouse aim?
Mostly mouse aim + keyboard roll.
Adam514 Doesnt manuevering with w+s give you more turn? Also, damnb
the bf didnt even want to shoot u
When? He shot me more times than I shot him in any case ;).
One of my fav planes is the d30 and ive always thought d30s as a high speed only plane, let alone beating 109s on slow dogfights...
It does high and low speed quite well. Though if Bf109s didn't have the "feature" of low thrust at low speed, they would fare a lot better against the D30 and would probably win the dogfight in some cases.
Wow
This channel is awesome, thanks for the content! Speaking of 109s, I noticed that during maneuvers the slats of 109s in War Thunder do not deploy fully unless rolling while turning, while in IL2-1946 they do (it's the only other flight sim I own with a 109 in it). Which one of the two is correct? The WT engine is far more modern, but I'd expect the flight models in any IL2 are going to be more accurate.
Thanks for the support!
I noticed in IL2, from a video I've seen, that the slats are open on takeoff (since there's no speed to puch the spring slats into the closed position), while in WT you need to be doing maneuvers to open them slightly.
In WT however, the instructor stops you from pulling as hard as you could, which prevents to slats from fully opening. On some 109s they open fully, on others they barely open. That's why I think it's instructor related, mostly.
Nice skills adam :PP. I was wondering in addition to the other p-51H (6.3 br) gameplay you showed vs prop planes, if you could follow up with maybe another p-51H gameplay vs jets?
Thanks!
P51H vs jets is quite rare nowadays, I'll see what I can do!
Content de trouver enfin un joueur Fr d'avions de qualité et pas vulgaire sur CZcams (bon même si tu t'exprimes avec la langue de Shakespeare). Continues comme ça tu vas gagner des abonnés c'est sûr!
Peut-être qu'on se croisera sur le champs de bataille mais j’espère être dans votre camp! ;)
Et hop....un abo.
Merci monsieur!
Par rapport à la langue utilisée dans mes vidéos, il faut parfois céder à la pauvre majorité si on veut réussir, malheureusement...
LOl at the end there my engine was on the verge of dying. It was red or black. The D-30 has so much better radiators. Even at 100% radiator the G-2 will eventually overheat while the D-30 won't. That's another huge advantage the D-30 has in a sustained fight.
Ha so your engine actually sustained damage, I thought you were just forced to throttle down.
I think that an extensive use of throtle control in g2 could turn the tables shortening the loops and putting you on him 6
I highly suggest you try the same thing with the Bf. 109 G-6. Doesn't turn quite as well BUT overheating is actually very manageable.
Well when dog fighting an aircraft with similar characteristics for too long engine overheating is an obvious advantage for the enemy. I kind of knew this from the start that the P-51 would win just because of this.
Therefore I suppose I would suggest a different Bf-109 with better radiators to dogfight with. Unless of course there isn't one.
I always thought that P-51 Ds had excellent performance at high altitude? Maybe the 109s are some of the few planes that are even better at high altitude and that's why it's best to dogfight them close to the ground if you're flying a P-51 D?
Indeed P51Ds have very good high altitude performance, but Bf109s have very good high altitude performance as well, their performance drops off slower than the P51D30. Fights are done at lower IAS at altitude, so the slower plane will have a better chance at high altitude rather than at low altitude. For example it's much easier to fight the Japanese at low alt than at high alt because at altitude their slowness is less of a disadvantage.
Ah cool. I'm learning so much from your videos. Thanks!
My pleasure! I might do a video on this concept as it's quite interesting, and barely anyone knows about it.
That would be great. I'd definitely watch.
Can you recommend a place to learn about MEC? You seem to ue it to great effect in many of your videos.
Hmm I didn't learn it from anyone, I just started using it. If it's your first time using MEC, stick to only controlling the radiators, as that's the most important MEC control. There are guides on forums and on CZcams on how to set up MEC in detail if necessary.
It's harder to pull lead in the bf109 g2 and the p51d is able to retain its energy better than the g2 particularly at low altitudes near the deck... At 6:40, dogeness made an excellent move by reversing down when he knows his plane cannot prevent him from overshooting, but then a few second later in his dive, he made a mistake by turning towards where you will pitch next. The bf109 has slightly more trouble rolling at slower speeds since it will gradually lose it in loops at lower alt, causing it to be sluggish. Because of this, the rudder of the 109 must be utilize to change the direction during loops to prevent the p51d from getting a gun solution.
At 6:40 I think I secured the positioning lead. I don't see how he could turn the tables, except perhaps attempting to make me overshoot with the airbrake trick.
Yeah 109s are pretty bad at rolling at high speed and at low speed, unfortunately. Rudder helps.
Isaac Lee By 6:40 my engine was literally dead from having to WEP so long. That was why my turn at the bottom of the loop was so wide and why Adam got the shot on me. I had run out of airspeed and just couldn’t pull anymore. The P-51D overheats a lot less than the BF 109. It’s a big advantage that it has in sustained dogfights.
dogeness at 6:47 you were able to extend away could you have not levelled off cooled your engine and the start an max climb to try and get altitude advantage? Turning back killed you.
@@smithy2389 Extend away from a faster aircraft (D-30) that's in gun range and above me? And even if my plane were capable of extending away, I couldnt. MY ENGINE WAS DEAD. If I wanted to extend (which I can't against a D-30), I would have had to do so way earlier before my engine started taking damage.
@@dogeness You had some energy from the dive so a tighter (horizontal) turn should have been possible. You may have lost the energy battle by that manouver even faster but still would have delayed your death.
Also dodging shots from wing mounted guns can be so easy ... depending on the energy left for roll of course.
Just curious, why are you comparing a 5.0 BR plane (that could probably be 5.3) vs a 4.3 Br plane?
I'm comparing the dogfighting abilities of the P51D30 with aircraft that it will face. The Bf109G2 has the best chance of defeating the P51D30 in a dogfight out of the German aircraft in the 4.0-6.0 BR range, even though it has a lower BR.
Adam514 what about the G-6?
G2 has a better chance than the G6 which has a better chance than the 5.3 Bf109s.
Adam514 I'm curious as to why that is. According the Datasheets (questionable accuracy) the G-2 Is better only in stall speed by 6kmh, the G-6 has it beat in level speed and climb rate, the WEP turn times are the same. I'd be curious to see a comparison fight between G-2 and G-6 as well as G-6 and D-30. I'm not a competent enough pilot to do it myself, though.
misegades Me and Adam already did g-6 vs D-30 fights. The D-30 wiped the floor with the G-6. The G-6 could win sometimes if it correctly used the vertical, but it was really hard to pull off and the D-30 won most fights.
I sometimes do a quick snaproll if there right behind me cut throttle,use flaps or sometime don't use them depends, use rudder and alierons together. Left rudder and left alieron id you want to snaproll left and the same to the right if you want to go to the right. Only works if the target is still at 100% throttle and is close to you but cant get guns on you. I use this and most of the times gets me behind the enemy and the tables turns only works in certain situations though. But there were times you could of use this to get behind the 109.
I feel like the enemy would just pitch up when he sees you do that. And since it bleeds some energy you won't be able to reverse him. I've seen it done to me loads of times and they never get a shot on me afterwards.
Adam514 which is why it only work in a perfect world scenario. I have to set up his moves for me to do the maneuver sometimes it works other times they follow through but when it works oh my lawd is it awesome when they get scared and panic because i suddenly get behind them.
Haha yeah it is kind of spectacular when it works.
nice video and good example of the true potential of the D30.... i think that, the only real problem of the P-51D-30 right know is the very high repair cost... I mean i know that the D30 is very good but... over 21,000 SL???... it really deserves that cost... keep in mind that is not longer anymore the top tier american fighter :/
Thanks!
To be honest I don't pay attention to repair cost, I never did and I never had SL problems. So I'm not a repair cost expert haha.
thats ok.. most people (including my self f*ck me XP) have this problem cuz we spend a lot of SL on multi-stuff and... we never left enough to play that we like the most... basically is an administration problem (fortunally only happends in games lol)...
But anyway can do a rewiew on the 51D-5 please, i really want to give it a second chance but, i really srtrugle in it
From what i have played in the d-5 it s mostly boom n zoom tactics and you can dogfight some fockewulfs but BF s will always have the advantage on a dogfight so only bnz them
thanks for the advise i'll try to be more discipline on my aprochess and see if i can get some results :D
I don't think flying the D5 has much value tbh, it's not that fast and it's not maneuverable. It's kind of a high altitude fighter.