33fps on XP12 using a 13900k - honestly, software is about 10 years behind the abilities of our hardware. We all.............................. need to stop upgrading our hardware in my view - we have a ferrari here that only does 25 mph, because we bought it in a country with noting other than farm tracks. Upgrade your tracks...............................
I did this and my frame rate increased. I have a 2 computer 5 monitor system. The visuals system is a Ryzen 7 2700X with GTX3080TI graphics card and 32 GB RAM. Frame rates went from 27-32 with high settings to 80 with maxed out settings and overcast skies on all 3 copies. With clear skies, I'm getting 110+ FPS. I did not waste disk space coping the X-Plane folder 3 times. Just create the folders, copy the executable, Preferences and Output folders to the new folders and then just create symbolic links in the new folders to the original X-Plane sub-folders (Aircraft, Scenery, etc..). Was fairly easy if you have a little computer experience. Would not be hard to automate the process with a script.
@@bartoszskowronski Yes. 11. But!!! I made a mistake. I had 1 copy running maxed out. The other 2 were just set to high ( 1 click off maxed out ). I turned them all the way up and the FPS dropped into the 80s. BUT (again), the FPS varied greatly between the 3 processes when set to night and overcast weather. One machine dropped to 8 FPS while the others were in the 30s. I had maxed out the GPU. Dropped back to my usual settings and performance jump back up. Not sure if I'm going to keep running the sim this way.
This is very interesting. I don't know why Austin didn't decide to use multiple cores in XP12 considering it looked like a re-write from the ground up.
I hope you get to have this conversation with Austin. IMHO, there is no bigger improvement that could be made in X-Plane than making it multi core aware. Thanks for putting this together!
I can't believe X-Plane 12 was released without proper multi core support. 4 core cpus have been out for 15+ years. This is pathetic on the Developers part. I like Austin but he screwed up bad on this. DCS world just released an update addit multi core support and it's a huge improvement. Sad. Just sad.
Already running three copies on three separate PCs solved all the multiple data problems and networked with three warped screens over 240 degrees curved projection gets me 40 frames. Must admit I did not consider running all that on just one PC.
Hi Michael, I have always used XPL (11 and 12) with two master (front view) and slave (external view) PCs. The master has all my planes, Laminar and paid, the slave only the default planes. It always worked perfectly and the external views only show the scenery and not the plane. With V.12.08 they made an incomprehensible change: the same planes as the master PC must be present on the slave PC otherwise the slave pc gets stuck. This madness will force me to spend a lot of money to buy 2 licenses for each plane (Toliss, Thranda, X-Aviation, etc.). But doesn't that seem stupid and crazy to you? Why don't they think about us users before making such difficult decisions? You have close relations with Austin, talk to him about this problem. I opened a ticket and a certain Ben replied like this: "Yes, you need to download/buy/install the same aircraft on all the machines". Thank you
Now communication configuration is super easy just copy one folder, to plugins folder, in each copy of Xplane. Check last post in forum. Disable controllers in External Visuals not needed anymore. No LAG between Master-ExternalVisuals, no more stutters.
When running multiple programs, the one you are currently interacting with always gets much more resources. Likely what happened here is the GPU driver reduced the graphics quality on the two copies of X-plane that weren't "foreground". Effectively you are running X-plane on 1 monitor, and 2 copies of X-plane "in the background" with reduced graphics.
So, I did an experiment. Opened up my browser, a few tabs, a couple running wp, my def environment, a couple other minor apps, then opened up x plane 12. I seem to have had a similar result. GTX 1070 notebook/8750h 32g ram, all of a sudden I can push the CPU sliders much further, and my CPU doesn't bottle neck, thus I can kick my textures up to max. Usually this would be unplayable (sub 25-30 imo) Getting 35-45+ on average consistently at 1440. All cores are being utilized.
As I've commented on this channel before, rewriting code so it is multithreaded is often worth the added complexity. I know because I've done it professionally and I've always been pleased with the results. If Austin or any of his fellow developers doubted multithreading could have any real effect on XP fps, here is some proof. Look into it guys! Make it so!
@Michael Brown, XForcePC Have you seen a decrease in performance when trying to run 3 monitors at sunrise/sunset? Another improvement I am hoping to see happen in the future.
Yes, the 7900XT runs about the same as a 4070Ti or 4080. CPU is normally the issue once you have a fairly fast GPU. If you can give me your email address I can send you my spreadsheet. I will eventually get a video done once time permits, but I can send you the data if you would like to see it before then.
Great video! I was waiting for someone to test and show the pluses and minuses. OK who's the super genius out there that can help Austin write the code for this? What a game changer this would be for Xplane and MSFS with current CPU technology. I only use my PC for simming and I waste 90% of its power. Thanks!
@@bartoszskowronski Seems like in his case it did enough for now, but I agree. Tackle the CPU issue first to get rid of that bottleneck then move on to the GPU’s
@@pilotbsinthesky3443 what I tested windows have problem to proper share GPU time between programs. If you run on separate GPU that problem is gone. On one GPU I had 70fps on first screen and 15 on second. if I click on second screen then second screen had 70fps and first 15fps.
I gotta say, devs are way behind the 8 ball when it comes to writing code that takes advantage of modern hardware. Multicore processors of 4+ cores have been out for more than a decade. Use those threads!! lol
So what is the big holdup in rewriting X-Plane to fully utilize multiple [edit: CPU] cores (more than 2) so that we can get much higher performance overall in the sim?
Could you do a video on optimising the use of an ultra wide monitor like a Samsung 49 inch display in a Mac environment? What would be the best solution to set? I successfully ran X-Plane 11 and X-Plane 12 side by side. X-Plane 12 just does not perform well enough with a wide display without having to make substantial compromises on rendering settings.
I didn‘t really understand why you don‘t get the same FPS if the different versions of X-Plane are just using 2 different cores for each copy, like a single copy also does. Logically we should get around the same FPS because it will try to use the whole 2 cores for each copy…I mean (3x2):3=2. What exactly did i miss?
basically creating of the world must be done on single thread. when you increase how many world you see (field of view increase when you add monitor) CPU must generate that on single thread. And on normal mode world is generated at once together giving perfect sync on displayed monitors. the running 3x program makes that is generated smaller portion of world independent form each other, 3x parallel (and consume 3x resources, but gpu is not fully utilize in normal mode), but without perfect synchronization between monitors. And add to that "monitors"/programs communicate by the network (created for multi PC system) and that add quite big lag between monitors on sharp turns you see lag between monitors. (similar as in multi PC setup) (and I think that network lag is first to fix by Laminar Research, need to create new method of communicating between xplanes on single PC) That trick works because xplane is massive holdback by single thread performance. GPU is not a problem.
the difference in fps is because windows don't proper share GPU time between different programs. That is my observation. But you can run each instance on different GPU and problem gone.
Now i expect in configuration of monitors new option "run fullscreen simulator as a different program, !!!!ACHTUNG!!!! this is preALFA version have LAG and bugs." if chosen shows another option to choose on witch GPU new monitor/program will be rendered.
I have been running X-Plane 12 on 4GB Vram 3050 Asus TUF Laptop, I know blurry textures are caused by Vram not being enough, yet, no matter which rendering settings I use, I still get them blurry textures. Any ideas? Is Laminar Research working on to solve this?
@@xforcepc Thanks for trying to help sir, X-Plane 11 OpenGL isn't doing this but when I switch to X-Plane 11 Vulkan and X-Plane 12 which is only Vulkan, those blurry textures keep appearing. Turns out it's an X-Plane Vulkan related issue when Vram usage reaches to limit. I guess Laminar fix that, I never saw such thing with other games running on Vulkan.
If you run that presentation on single GPU difference in fps, I bet is windows can't share GPU time properly. Not network synchronization. I had on two monitors single GPU test 70fps on first and 15fps on second. when I mouse click on second monitor then I had on second monitor 70fps and 15fps on first monitor. It seems to me that windows give everything for active program and when that program "have enough" (up to CPU single thread bottleneck) then gives rest of GPU time for the next.
if Michael goes missing, Austin is the prime suspect.
33fps on XP12 using a 13900k - honestly, software is about 10 years behind the abilities of our hardware. We all.............................. need to stop upgrading our hardware in my view - we have a ferrari here that only does 25 mph, because we bought it in a country with noting other than farm tracks. Upgrade your tracks...............................
I did this and my frame rate increased. I have a 2 computer 5 monitor system. The visuals system is a Ryzen 7 2700X with GTX3080TI graphics card and 32 GB RAM. Frame rates went from 27-32 with high settings to 80 with maxed out settings and overcast skies on all 3 copies. With clear skies, I'm getting 110+ FPS. I did not waste disk space coping the X-Plane folder 3 times. Just create the folders, copy the executable, Preferences and Output folders to the new folders and then just create symbolic links in the new folders to the original X-Plane sub-folders (Aircraft, Scenery, etc..). Was fairly easy if you have a little computer experience. Would not be hard to automate the process with a script.
Quite high fps, what's version you test that? V11
@@bartoszskowronski Yes. 11. But!!! I made a mistake. I had 1 copy running maxed out. The other 2 were just set to high ( 1 click off maxed out ). I turned them all the way up and the FPS dropped into the 80s. BUT (again), the FPS varied greatly between the 3 processes when set to night and overcast weather. One machine dropped to 8 FPS while the others were in the 30s. I had maxed out the GPU. Dropped back to my usual settings and performance jump back up. Not sure if I'm going to keep running the sim this way.
This is very interesting. I don't know why Austin didn't decide to use multiple cores in XP12 considering it looked like a re-write from the ground up.
Thanks for this. Please keep pushing Austin to fix this 🙏 It just makes sense!
I hope you get to have this conversation with Austin. IMHO, there is no bigger improvement that could be made in X-Plane than making it multi core aware. Thanks for putting this together!
man, its 2023 and we still dont have multi-threading as being a standard, not just in flight sim, but in gaming in general. sad.
I can't believe X-Plane 12 was released without proper multi core support. 4 core cpus have been out for 15+ years. This is pathetic on the Developers part. I like Austin but he screwed up bad on this.
DCS world just released an update addit multi core support and it's a huge improvement. Sad. Just sad.
Already running three copies on three separate PCs solved all the multiple data problems and networked with three warped screens over 240 degrees curved projection gets me 40 frames. Must admit I did not consider running all that on just one PC.
Hi Michael, I have always used XPL (11 and 12) with two master (front view) and slave (external view) PCs. The master has all my planes, Laminar and paid, the slave only the default planes. It always worked perfectly and the external views only show the scenery and not the plane. With V.12.08 they made an incomprehensible change: the same planes as the master PC must be present on the slave PC otherwise the slave pc gets stuck. This madness will force me to spend a lot of money to buy 2 licenses for each plane (Toliss, Thranda, X-Aviation, etc.). But doesn't that seem stupid and crazy to you? Why don't they think about us users before making such difficult decisions? You have close relations with Austin, talk to him about this problem. I opened a ticket and a certain Ben replied like this: "Yes, you need to download/buy/install the same aircraft on all the machines". Thank you
Now communication configuration is super easy just copy one folder, to plugins folder, in each copy of Xplane. Check last post in forum. Disable controllers in External Visuals not needed anymore.
No LAG between Master-ExternalVisuals, no more stutters.
When running multiple programs, the one you are currently interacting with always gets much more resources. Likely what happened here is the GPU driver reduced the graphics quality on the two copies of X-plane that weren't "foreground".
Effectively you are running X-plane on 1 monitor, and 2 copies of X-plane "in the background" with reduced graphics.
So, I did an experiment. Opened up my browser, a few tabs, a couple running wp, my def environment, a couple other minor apps, then opened up x plane 12. I seem to have had a similar result.
GTX 1070 notebook/8750h 32g ram, all of a sudden I can push the CPU sliders much further, and my CPU doesn't bottle neck, thus I can kick my textures up to max. Usually this would be unplayable (sub 25-30 imo) Getting 35-45+ on average consistently at 1440. All cores are being utilized.
You need someone completely nuts to try something like that and to prove that it works. Well done! 😁
you welcome ;D
Very interesting! It does show the limitations of current Sims (and others apps)
As I've commented on this channel before, rewriting code so it is multithreaded is often worth the added complexity. I know because I've done it professionally and I've always been pleased with the results. If Austin or any of his fellow developers doubted multithreading could have any real effect on XP fps, here is some proof. Look into it guys! Make it so!
I agree. Tiring to see only single thread and CPUs can today handle it
And simulators are best for that because multimonitor setup are quite common in that type. And each copy of XP can run on different GPU.
I made a change ;D and each copy can utilize different/separate GPU.
Oh, yeah, you are the guy from the forum.
@@xforcepc Yep.
@Michael Brown, XForcePC Have you seen a decrease in performance when trying to run 3 monitors at sunrise/sunset? Another improvement I am hoping to see happen in the future.
This is great stuff! Patiently waiting for 7900xt numbers though 😮💨
will be practically the same
Yes, the 7900XT runs about the same as a 4070Ti or 4080. CPU is normally the issue once you have a fairly fast GPU. If you can give me your email address I can send you my spreadsheet. I will eventually get a video done once time permits, but I can send you the data if you would like to see it before then.
Thank you very much, Michael! Excelent proof of concept!
Great video! I was waiting for someone to test and show the pluses and minuses. OK who's the super genius out there that can help Austin write the code for this? What a game changer this would be for Xplane and MSFS with current CPU technology. I only use my PC for simming and I waste 90% of its power. Thanks!
Agreed
and each copy of xplane should run on different GPU. better 3x weak GPU vs 1x strong. Windows can't proper share one GPU between programs.
@@bartoszskowronski Seems like in his case it did enough for now, but I agree. Tackle the CPU issue first to get rid of that bottleneck then move on to the GPU’s
@@pilotbsinthesky3443 what I tested windows have problem to proper share GPU time between programs. If you run on separate GPU that problem is gone.
On one GPU I had 70fps on first screen and 15 on second. if I click on second screen then second screen had 70fps and first 15fps.
I gotta say, devs are way behind the 8 ball when it comes to writing code that takes advantage of modern hardware. Multicore processors of 4+ cores have been out for more than a decade. Use those threads!! lol
Thanks Michael. This is such a mess, I hope Austin and the guys sort this out soon.
They still share the same GPU if setup like this? If you add 2 more GPUs, theoretically you can get higher fps?
YES and i did that. check forum link.
So what is the big holdup in rewriting X-Plane to fully utilize multiple [edit: CPU] cores (more than 2) so that we can get much higher performance overall in the sim?
lag between monitors is similar as in multi PC setup. one monitor is snappy rest have lag.
Do you will try to improve xplane on next update for the CPU core utilisation to be able to have more frame rate
**cries in VR**
for you is also hope because you run on two separate screens/camera positions. Two GPU for VR that will be something. each GPU runs different eye.
@@bartoszskowronski My system could definitely handle it. I have a gaming rig and my bottleneck is, of course, the CPU.
Could you do a video on optimising the use of an ultra wide monitor like a Samsung 49 inch display in a Mac environment? What would be the best solution to set? I successfully ran X-Plane 11 and X-Plane 12 side by side. X-Plane 12 just does not perform well enough with a wide display without having to make substantial compromises on rendering settings.
if running in separate windows(with borders) is ok, then that should work.
I didn‘t really understand why you don‘t get the same FPS if the different versions of X-Plane are just using 2 different cores for each copy, like a single copy also does. Logically we should get around the same FPS because it will try to use the whole 2 cores for each copy…I mean (3x2):3=2. What exactly did i miss?
basically creating of the world must be done on single thread. when you increase how many world you see (field of view increase when you add monitor) CPU must generate that on single thread.
And on normal mode world is generated at once together giving perfect sync on displayed monitors. the running 3x program makes that is generated smaller portion of world independent form each other, 3x parallel (and consume 3x resources, but gpu is not fully utilize in normal mode), but without perfect synchronization between monitors. And add to that "monitors"/programs communicate by the network (created for multi PC system) and that add quite big lag between monitors on sharp turns you see lag between monitors. (similar as in multi PC setup) (and I think that network lag is first to fix by Laminar Research, need to create new method of communicating between xplanes on single PC)
That trick works because xplane is massive holdback by single thread performance. GPU is not a problem.
the difference in fps is because windows don't proper share GPU time between different programs. That is my observation. But you can run each instance on different GPU and problem gone.
@@bartoszskowronski Thanks very much for your answer. I will have to read it a few times to be sure I understand it right 🙈😊👍
Now i expect in configuration of monitors new option "run fullscreen simulator as a different program, !!!!ACHTUNG!!!! this is preALFA version have LAG and bugs." if chosen shows another option to choose on witch GPU new monitor/program will be rendered.
IDK man...Does X-Plane even have synthetic vision yet?
I have been running X-Plane 12 on 4GB Vram 3050 Asus TUF Laptop, I know blurry textures are caused by Vram not being enough, yet, no matter which rendering settings I use, I still get them blurry textures. Any ideas? Is Laminar Research working on to solve this?
Turn off FSR Supersampling (slider all the way to the right) and restart and see if that helps.
@@xforcepc Thanks for trying to help sir, X-Plane 11 OpenGL isn't doing this but when I switch to X-Plane 11 Vulkan and X-Plane 12 which is only Vulkan, those blurry textures keep appearing. Turns out it's an X-Plane Vulkan related issue when Vram usage reaches to limit. I guess Laminar fix that, I never saw such thing with other games running on Vulkan.
If you run that presentation on single GPU difference in fps, I bet is windows can't share GPU time properly. Not network synchronization.
I had on two monitors single GPU test 70fps on first and 15fps on second. when I mouse click on second monitor then I had on second monitor 70fps and 15fps on first monitor.
It seems to me that windows give everything for active program and when that program "have enough" (up to CPU single thread bottleneck) then gives rest of GPU time for the next.
Wow
And I bet that will be huge upgrade from XP12 to XP13.