Pumping the brakes in reverse does nothing. Stepping on them to stop in reverse will get the pawl to move upward and engage the star wheel for a 1 or 2 tooth adjustment, but it will only do that once. You would have to go forward, come to a complete stop, and then reverse again and stop for the adjuster to engage again. The adjuster action is triggered from the shoes shifting fore and aft.
@@UncleTonysGarage That and if the shoes have worn too much the adjuster cannot engage. The brakes have to be pretty "tight" to keep everything in range for the self adjuster to operate. This is why I just dump the self adjusters. On my cars, I don't like the brakes to be too tight. It produces drag which detracts from my gas mileage and it makes the car a lot harder to push, which I have to do a lot around the shop/garage for some reason, not to mention in the staging lanes. lol I check brake adjustment on the front brakes every time I do an oil change.
I've always figured that the adjusters stop being effective after so much wear. So it has to be done manually after so much wear until it's time to replace the shoes
@@UncleTonysGarage Where we're you fifty years ago when some dumbass (my boss) told another dumbass (me) that "trick"? Seriously, thanks for the info. And we just illustrated that even if a guy's been doing this a long time, he can still make uninformed mistakes for a long time.
Just adjusted the drums on the back of my f150 last weekend. It's supposed to self adjust too but they never worked and the parts fell apart last time I had it apart, so now they're manually adjusted lol
One point to make, is when adjusting rears, slacken the park brake cable off so it has plenty of play, before adjusting the shoes. Then readjust the park brake. Not doing this will often result in excess pedal, and rears not working as quick as they should.
*One of the things that I learned in my years working in shops is, there are a lot of guys out there who do their own brakes, and ALWAYS get the primary/secondary shoes backwards. And who do calipers and go through a gallon of brake fluid to bleed them but still can’t get a pedal, because they have the calipers on the wrong sides, and the bleeders pointing at the ground* 🤦🏼♂️
One of the guys I work with just did that with calipers. Had to replace rear calipers and couldn’t get a good pedal. Kept chasing it until one of the other old guys looked at it and pointed out the upside down bleeder. With medium duty stuff they sometimes have “universal” calipers that can go on either side. Just have to make sure and put the hose in the bottom hole and the bleeder in the top hole.
Oh, how many of you have seen that the 'shade tree' have put both short shoes on one side and long shoes on the other! DIY people seem never to read the manual!
This is why I have always been very careful to mark things or pay close attention to how things come apart and go back together. Never had a problem in 40+ years.
@@mdcuddy3286 I’ve seen that quite a few times too, I’ve even seen one guy who managed to get 2 bonded primary shoes on one side, and 2 riveted secondary shoes on the other 🤷🏻♂️
Good video, uncle Tony I could never get the front drums adjusted properly on my car back in the day but on the whole they were good brakes except when you drove through a massive puddle the water would roll around inside the drum and if you step on the brakes, there was nothing there…… that would be my only complaint about drums on the front All the best from Melbourne Australia
Another thing that folk's unfamiliar with drum brakes is, if you roll thru water up past your axles, for twenty foot or more, you might have a big surprise if you want to stop rite after, drag the brakes lightly going through deep water.
I was taught to crank the adjuster in until the wheel won't turn then use the two-screwdriver method to back it off until the desired drag is achieved. I have found that method easier to obtain the same amount of drag on each side. I have never been successful or happy with the final result on the first try just working up to the adjustment a few clicks at a time.
thats kinda how I do it. Except I back it off a bit more because I want no drag... but most of my cars have discs in front, so its only rear brakes for me.
1986FordF-250 You are 100% correct . If you don't do it the way you describe, you never get a really full to the top brake petal. If you only adjust til it drags its only dragging at the bottom of the shoes where the adjuster is , when you go on to full STOP it pushes the shoes up until the top of the shoe is contacting the drum as well, then back off a little til it rolls .
@@junk250 And it's a total bitch if you have turned drums and no way to arc the shoes to get them adjusted well enough to the point they can wear in by themselves. I've run into that a couple of times now.
@@junk250 that is why once you have adjusted them you apply the brakes a couple of times and check, most Australian cars Holden and Ford, have removable plugs where you can adjust them while the hub is on, I don't see the harm in drilling a hole in the backing plate where the adjuster is and after adjustment place a bung/rubber plug in the hole ,might save taking it off and on, our rear brakes are self adjusting, but only if you apply the brake hard IN REVERSE most people don't reverse fast enough or brake hard enough to activate the adjuster, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones
Personally I hate the stuff. Antiseize is expensive, messy, hard to clean up, dries out fast, and is bad at lubrication beyond worst case scenario galling. I also suspect the only people who use it on all sorts of stuff beyond bolts that tend to seize are guys who don't do their own laundry. A lot of people gob the shit places it doesn't belong, but that doesn't make it belong. Get a 1lb tub of high temp bearing grease, cut a small hole in the lid, and stick an acid brush through it.
I've lived in the salt belt my entire 54 years and, I've owned plenty of drum brake vehicles. Some had 4 wheel drum, others only on the rear. The only time I've seen a "self adjuster" not work at all was when it rusted from lack of maintenance. I've learned over the years to pull the drums when rotating tires and make sure they're well lubricated. I use the copper anti-seize on mine. Also, as others have said, I learned to adjust the shoes out until the drum wouldn't turn, then back them off slightly. I'm not in any way saying that Tonys way is wrong, just that I learned a different method and, it works too.
I bought a drum gage. Made life much easier when doing drum brakes. I pull my wheels once a year anyway just as regular maintenance along with a bleed and new DOT 3.
On the A body Mopars it seems to me 1963 was the first year of the self adjusters.One of my brothers had a 62 Valiant that you had to roll under and ratchet up the adjusters periodically. My 63 V100 coupe had self adjusters.My 62 D100 pickup had manual adjusters.
My nephew got a '53 Ford panel truck for his high school graduation. Neither he nor his two friends knew how to do drum brakes. I had to show them how. This video would have been extremely helpful to them.
Thing with self adjusting is the hardware in the hardware kits is rarely right, you have to tweak it so it ratchets on over travel correctly. Like you said, takes some fiddling.
Us guys up North, self adjusting drum brakes😂😂😂. Other than pulling the drum off every 6 months and cleaning and lubing the star adjuster I have found no other way to keep the rust from seizing it up.
One suggestion, never use white lube on the star adjuster. It has water in it and will lock it up. Use copper never seize instead without making a mess or even waterproof grease. On our 67 Pontiac with front drums, they were not at all self-adjusting from the factory. We adjusted them at oil change. Tony a video suggestion would be cleaning, packing and properly adjusting wheel bearings. Most people do them completely wrong.
I ditch them front Drum Brakes on my Duster. When I went V8 I change my K Member use my disc setup. I learned that drum setup on my first Duster and Valiant.
You have been so on point with the classes/videos lately 🙌 great advice even for some of us that’s been out of the old car great car loop for some time … Cheers 🍻💯
Forgot your Stands again Tony. Remember your a Leader. People follow your example. It only takes a few minutes to stay safe and A Second to have a Bad Day. NEVER trust hydraulics!!
I'm having flashbacks to being at my buddy's place helping him work on his 66 mustang at some late night early morning darkness trying to take the drum off and turning the star wheel the wrong way and having the two high school kids at ass crack of night scrambling trying to figure this out... Ahhh good times
I actually used some of your tips on adjusting drum brakes, to properly and tightly adjust my parking brake shoes in my drum in hat setup, on my AWD car, which I use as a staging brake to preload the driveline before a launch. Works fantastic and holds the car back really good
Tony, do you remember the "trick" that made the rounds back then? Some people said to switch the brakes side to side so that the brakes would adjust every time you stepped on the pedal when the car was going forward! I was 14 (70 now), tried it, but no clue if it worked, the car didn't last long enough to know lol. Thank you for all you do!
I was lucky on my first car as it had duo servo system with cam adjusters. Then when I wore them out, I actually reconditions them, instead of fitting discs like every other person did.
Another humdinger of a video! Just did all that on a 67 Coronet that sat for 28 years in my barn. Love the nuances you present. Always learn something, even if I think I know it all.
It's a much bigger challenge doing the rear brakes, especially if you have a Sure Grip, and as in my case, 4.56 gears, the drag is substantial. I sometimes remove the wheels and adjust the brakes to where I can just slip the drum on. Leaving the 9 1/2" GM brakes out of this, there were some fine drum brake systems out there, especially the 11" used on Chrysler muscle cars
Don't forget the self adjusters only work when stopping in reverse so it is important to back up and forceful stop from time to time to get the brakes to adjust.
Hmmmm….you got me thinking.? My car has non adjusting rear drums in rear. I think I am adjusting them wrong. I am adjusting them a little too loose… I turn the adjuster til there is very little drag….but you show quite a bit more drag. Will try adjusting a bit more . 👍
When I was approaching the point of proper adjustment, and especially after taking up a lot of slack, I liked to hit the brake pedal to center the shoes before touching up the last little bit. Sometimes only one shoe drags, leading you to think you are done. Anyone who had an old Volkswagen beetle was under the car almost once a month to maintain a decent pedal height…. if not that, then it was trying to keep the valves and carburetor spot on!
When I was doing apprenticeship, I found it hard to get any information easily, you ask a question and didn't You do it at TAFE school we didn't have that when I was apprentice, and then they turn and walk away, probably didn't help that I was already 28 before I started my apprenticeship,great demonstration, thanks for sharing ,all the best to yous and your loved ones
I needed this video 2 years ago. Some teeth were broken, took till midnight to take off the drum and clean up the seizing rust. One locked up wheel stopped the rv from moving. It was 1970s D30 Winnebago. And then there were no breaks at all, that's the next venture, perhaps the brake booster.
I was taught to JUST tighten the drums until they scrub softly. Once they wear down some, say in 3 days of driving, do this one more time, and they should do fine from there on until the shoes wear down enough to be replaced.
I seem to remember that the Plymouth self-adjusters worked to tighten the shoes when backing up, and if the driver frequently backed up while turning in the same direction, such as backing out of a garage into the street every morning, then the brakes would become imbalanced L to R. One side could get too tight, while the other side remained loose. Great vid, UT!
On my late 1960's Mercedes 220D, it was such low power, I would adjust all 4 drums to have no drag to keep parasitic lose to a minimum, it was not fast enough to worry about not enough brake
Good video Im a old timer in this as well yep did that exact procedure in my 10 sec Road Runner drums all the way around actually better than disks in a few ways.
I am no auto mechanic, but I am a die-hard 70's Chevy operator, and got something out of the video. Simply releasing the shoe tension on a seized-up 1-ton drum rather than using violence I had not considered.
Went to local shop for replacement rear drum system on 89 F150. It will be done tomorrow they said. Three days later, me and the guy at the counter are walking a noob through Ford rear brake replacement. I didn't mind though. Good lesson and a good repair job.
For rear brakes, I'll adjust one side with a tire on, and the tire off on the opposite side. Then on the other side, take that opposite tire off, otherwise you're feeling the drag of the first side and you want them even. You may mention this by the time the vid is over, but I'm just saying basically the only thing I know about adjusting. I always have a hard time using a screw driver in there, especially my 2010 Silverado.
Even my 1988 Plymouth Reliant self adjusters don't work. Been hearing the spring sound with a low pedal for the past year. Went to adjust it yesterday one side needed alot. Other side was frozen adjuster bent the drum banging it off to adjust it. Now gotta replace the drum and separate the hub/repack the bearings. You should do a video on the staked/swedged drums. The hub and drum are stuck together gonna try a hole saw tomorrow....
Just a few months back, finished changing the front shoes on my Chrysler C body, I've thought that no drag is good while the wheel is rotating, thanks for another enlightening video as always Tony, learned something new. Hope you cover something soon on the pre-65 era Chryslers where the rear drums are tapered axle, pain in the ass, but at least it's got the death grip! This would explain why i have a pull to the right side, Passenger side is adjusted correctly with some drag while the drivers side mostly free wheels, not adjusted fully. The adjustment i initially used was equally adjust both front shoes till a light drag is felt, then i would drive to a local HUGE parking lot then reverse up to around 15/20 MPH then mash on the brakes, the theory was that the brakes could get "Comfy" in their natural self adjustments. EDIT: The grabby brakes on some drum systems could be attributed to an overlooked issue, The backing plate where the shoes rub up on the 3 points per shoe on the backing plate, can and will "dig" a channel causing the shoes to get jammed and cause a sudden brake grab as the brake pressure building up in the lines suddenly "Launches" the shoe to the drum HARD.
Simple solution to the backing plate wear is to use a stick welder, Flux core, or mig welder and fill in the groves. Then grind the weld most of the way down, then finish up with a flat file so you don't take to much off. Easy way to restore a worn out backing plate that you can't get ahold of anymore.
Top man, helped a lot. I would be very interested in your knowledge about the normal forward function of drum brakes, such as how the primary shoe (smaller liner) when activated then grabs the rotating drum to act against the secondary shoe (larger liner). Also what real world effect would occur if one side of the dual piston brake cylinder seized. Really great description
The star wheels is different from side to side one is right hand tread and the other is left handed. Do one did at time when replacing shoes. Take pictures before taring thing apart. Can save a lot of time and confusing later.
The old GM ones with no access to adjust suck. If it gets the ridge,getting the drum off can be a battle..frankly I can't stand drum brakes, but when working right they do work.
Also, I noted the Duster or Champ or whatever ever it is, uses a wheel cylinder with two plungers (rods). I had a 61 Chrysler. I do not remember the model but the brakes used two single plunger wheel cylinders on each wheel. One at the top and the other at the bottom. The set up provided even cylinder pressure to the top and bottom of the brake drum, instead of the springs only at the bottom as shown here. I suppose Mopar switched to springs and dual plungers to cut costs in the late 60's.
Even my 98 Dodge 1500 P/U has that set up. Except smaller. It seems like that set up has to be clean as can be to adjust correctly. Once the brake dust and grime get in they stop adjusting and you have to go in and clean and lube everything up to get them to work again.
Thank you for this! I have a '56 Imperial with stuck wheels... it has been sitting too long. I do not know if it has this type of drum brake, but being able to manually retract the shoes to get the wheels off without fighting off all the rust... that gives me hope. After I get everything off, I have to de-rust it all, and I'm going to try the electrolysis method you had in a video maybe a year ago... wish me luck!
This stuff was all still common knowledge when I first started to drive and work on cars in the late 80s (I'm gen-x) Even though this was 20 years out of date, a lot of these old drum brake cars were still on the road (not to mention most cars had rear drums, even if they had front disc). My best friend had an olds (for some reason I want to say it was a Buick, but Buick apparently never made a rocket 350) with a rocket 350 in it that had drum brakes all the way around. Today, nobody can even drive a stick, let alone mess with drum brakes.
@@MattsRageFitGarage Cold war motors (a youtube channel I follow, great channel) has a machine for it. It needs to be "programmed" for the type of set up it is and the programming is done with a key tha tyou put in in different configurations that push down the right combo of pins, almost like a paper tape. It's comical.
@@tarstarkusz Sounds like a sun engine diagnostics machine or similar. I have a Sun 1020 myself. Sadly, most of the functions on it have quit working over the years.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I don't think so, at least not from a quick search for sun engine diagnostic machine. This is a machine you put the distributor in and it spins it. It has a tach on it that physical shows the characteristics of the distributor.
I have a 72 Duster 340 with 4 wheel drums. Just completely redid my front brakes changed everything in there except the actual drums, which nowadays are difficult to find and expensive. The self adjusters seem to be working fine. Also did the rear drum brakes on my 71 Mach 1 about a year ago with everything new including the drums, and the self adjusters also seem to be working fine. The self adjusters will work as long as everything is nice and new and within factory specs, obviously a lot of cars will not fall in that category, if not most cars. It has always seemed to me that the biggest issue with the self adjusters is worn parts, on my Duster when I removed the front drums, the pawl had damaged the star wheel, so they would not work, plus the self adjusting cable was a little stretched. If you have new or good drums, and you get new shoes, a complete hardware kit (which has all new springs), and your self adjusting repair kit, everything will work as intended, at least that has been my experience. To top it off the parts are cheap, I paid less than $15 for the complete hardware kit and the self adjuster repair kit from Rockauto, and that does both front drum brakes.
I also inspect the spots on the backing plate where the brake shoe rubs back and forth on to mke sure there's not rut spot where the brake could stick . if all checks out I mixa combo of antiseize with PB blaster and put some on those flat spots and on the brake adjuster and it moving parts . it keep the adjuster from seizing up from rust,brake dust and heat
Sometimes I'd just pull the hub cap (NOT the wheel cover) and remove the cotter key, take off the castle nut then remove the wheel and drum all at once. Put on the new brakes, tighten the castle nut and back off until you can catch the first hole (so you don't overtighten the bearing) check the drag and adjust the brakes until good....AND PUT A NEW COTTER KEY PIN BACK IN SO YOUR WHEEL DOESN'T FALL OFF! Replace hub cap and wheel cover.
Also while adjusting , take a medium screwdriver and pry lightly front to rear on the star wheel to get a sense of how much clearance needs to be adjusted out , sort of sneak up on it, cause it can be a real bear if over adjusted,a real pain for the novice
And if the nubs on the backing plate (that help keep the brake shoe assemblies centered and moveable) get so worn down they are flat - the brakes will grab and stay stuck more often that not. Then you have to replace the entire backing plate. Happened to me with my 1990 Chevy K1500 rear brakes. I have many videos about it. Ugh, what an ordeal.
Great video as usual Uncle Tony... Thanks for the "refresher course"! Could you please do a short Part 2 spot at some point and feature the Lockheed drum brake systems as used on Willys-era Jeeps? (I'll bet you've had occasion to mess with some of these, and they are unique.) The gang at oldwillysforum would certainly appreciate it! Joe B
A good brake check in reverse from time to time keeps the shoes adjusted properly on a Bendix style braking system. Leading and trailing brakes are adjusted by firmly applying the parking brake. I use to laugh at the old guys 20-30 years ago driving like maniacs in reverse while stomping on the brakes trying to adjust leading/trailing brake systems, lol. Don't forget to adjust the parking brake cable after replacing rear shoes. I like my parking brakes to do their job with minimum travel.
How many times did you back a car up while pumping the brakes?
How many people know this?
Pumping the brakes in reverse does nothing. Stepping on them to stop in reverse will get the pawl to move upward and engage the star wheel for a 1 or 2 tooth adjustment, but it will only do that once. You would have to go forward, come to a complete stop, and then reverse again and stop for the adjuster to engage again. The adjuster action is triggered from the shoes shifting fore and aft.
@@UncleTonysGarage That and if the shoes have worn too much the adjuster cannot engage. The brakes have to be pretty "tight" to keep everything in range for the self adjuster to operate. This is why I just dump the self adjusters. On my cars, I don't like the brakes to be too tight. It produces drag which detracts from my gas mileage and it makes the car a lot harder to push, which I have to do a lot around the shop/garage for some reason, not to mention in the staging lanes. lol
I check brake adjustment on the front brakes every time I do an oil change.
I've always figured that the adjusters stop being effective after so much wear. So it has to be done manually after so much wear until it's time to replace the shoes
@@UncleTonysGarage
Where we're you fifty years ago when some dumbass (my boss) told another dumbass (me) that "trick"?
Seriously, thanks for the info. And we just illustrated that even if a guy's been doing this a long time, he can still make uninformed mistakes for a long time.
Just adjusted the drums on the back of my f150 last weekend. It's supposed to self adjust too but they never worked and the parts fell apart last time I had it apart, so now they're manually adjusted lol
You would be surprised how many people need this video. And now I have one to send them
As usual, UT, this is great information to have.
I vaguely remember doing this 40 years ago, but the refresher course never hurts. 👍
Exactly how I describe this to anyone who asks me. Thanks Tony!
This man is sharing solid knowledge. 👌 anyone in the car community should be able to appreciate this.
you are a fantastic teacher, I've learned a lot watching your videos
I love those old Dodge rally wheels.
This is part of the charm on old cars
One point to make, is when adjusting rears, slacken the park brake cable off so it has plenty of play, before adjusting the shoes. Then readjust the park brake. Not doing this will often result in excess pedal, and rears not working as quick as they should.
I came here to say the same thing. This is very important to achieve proper adjustment of both the shoes and the parking brake.
Great to know👍👊
Best adjustment instruction I have seen- great content!
*One of the things that I learned in my years working in shops is, there are a lot of guys out there who do their own brakes, and ALWAYS get the primary/secondary shoes backwards. And who do calipers and go through a gallon of brake fluid to bleed them but still can’t get a pedal, because they have the calipers on the wrong sides, and the bleeders pointing at the ground* 🤦🏼♂️
One of the guys I work with just did that with calipers. Had to replace rear calipers and couldn’t get a good pedal. Kept chasing it until one of the other old guys looked at it and pointed out the upside down bleeder.
With medium duty stuff they sometimes have “universal” calipers that can go on either side. Just have to make sure and put the hose in the bottom hole and the bleeder in the top hole.
Oh, how many of you have seen that the 'shade tree' have put both short shoes on one side and long shoes on the other! DIY people seem never to read the manual!
@@mdcuddy3286
When all else fails read the destructions.
This is why I have always been very careful to mark things or pay close attention to how things come apart and go back together. Never had a problem in 40+ years.
@@mdcuddy3286 I’ve seen that quite a few times too, I’ve even seen one guy who managed to get 2 bonded primary shoes on one side, and 2 riveted secondary shoes on the other 🤷🏻♂️
Good video, uncle Tony
I could never get the front drums adjusted properly on my car back in the day
but on the whole they were good brakes
except when you drove through a massive puddle the water would roll around inside the drum and if you step on the brakes, there was nothing there…… that would be my only complaint about drums on the front
All the best from Melbourne Australia
Another thing that folk's unfamiliar with drum brakes is, if you roll thru water up past your axles, for twenty foot or more, you might have a big surprise if you want to stop rite after, drag the brakes lightly going through deep water.
Worst was hitting water on one side Takes once, you know you're counter steering untill brake dragging gets brake dry again
I was taught to crank the adjuster in until the wheel won't turn then use the two-screwdriver method to back it off until the desired drag is achieved. I have found that method easier to obtain the same amount of drag on each side. I have never been successful or happy with the final result on the first try just working up to the adjustment a few clicks at a time.
thats kinda how I do it. Except I back it off a bit more because I want no drag... but most of my cars have discs in front, so its only rear brakes for me.
1986FordF-250
You are 100% correct .
If you don't do it the way you describe, you never get a really full to the top brake petal. If you only adjust til it drags its only dragging at the bottom of the shoes where the adjuster is , when you go on to full STOP it pushes the shoes up until the top of the shoe is contacting the drum as well, then back off a little til it rolls .
@@junk250 My dad taught me that method, he learned it in automotive school.
@@junk250 And it's a total bitch if you have turned drums and no way to arc the shoes to get them adjusted well enough to the point they can wear in by themselves. I've run into that a couple of times now.
@@junk250 that is why once you have adjusted them you apply the brakes a couple of times and check, most Australian cars Holden and Ford, have removable plugs where you can adjust them while the hub is on, I don't see the harm in drilling a hole in the backing plate where the adjuster is and after adjustment place a bung/rubber plug in the hole ,might save taking it off and on, our rear brakes are self adjusting, but only if you apply the brake hard IN REVERSE most people don't reverse fast enough or brake hard enough to activate the adjuster, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones
I've still got my drum brake adjusting spoon that I bought back in the sixties! Haven't used it in years...but I've got it just in case...
If you don't want it give it to UT
Hey Uncle Tony - Thanks for showing us how to have archaic and eat it, too!
You won the internet for today!!!
Thanks Tony. I just successfully did this to my 71
I like to pull the adjuster apart and heavily grease it with chassis/wheel bearing grease, makes adjustment easy years later.
I like anti-seize!
Personally I hate the stuff. Antiseize is expensive, messy, hard to clean up, dries out fast, and is bad at lubrication beyond worst case scenario galling. I also suspect the only people who use it on all sorts of stuff beyond bolts that tend to seize are guys who don't do their own laundry. A lot of people gob the shit places it doesn't belong, but that doesn't make it belong. Get a 1lb tub of high temp bearing grease, cut a small hole in the lid, and stick an acid brush through it.
Awesome uncle Tony always get alot out of these videos!!!!!
I've lived in the salt belt my entire 54 years and, I've owned plenty of drum brake vehicles. Some had 4 wheel drum, others only on the rear. The only time I've seen a "self adjuster" not work at all was when it rusted from lack of maintenance. I've learned over the years to pull the drums when rotating tires and make sure they're well lubricated. I use the copper anti-seize on mine.
Also, as others have said, I learned to adjust the shoes out until the drum wouldn't turn, then back them off slightly. I'm not in any way saying that Tonys way is wrong, just that I learned a different method and, it works too.
I bought a drum gage. Made life much easier when doing drum brakes. I pull my wheels once a year anyway just as regular maintenance along with a bleed and new DOT 3.
Brings me back to when I was 12 or so,my dad taught me pertener the same thing
*It’s right in the name…SELF adjusting. That means adjust it YOURSELF!*
DIY usually means
Dick
It up
Yourself
😄
Love it!! HaHa!
On the A body Mopars it seems to me 1963 was the first year of the self adjusters.One of my brothers had a 62 Valiant that you had to roll under and ratchet up the adjusters periodically. My 63 V100 coupe had self adjusters.My 62 D100 pickup had manual adjusters.
My 61' W200 Crew Cab had manual adjusters.
My nephew got a '53 Ford panel truck for his high school graduation. Neither he nor his two friends knew how to do drum brakes. I had to show them how. This video would have been extremely helpful to them.
Thing with self adjusting is the hardware in the hardware kits is rarely right, you have to tweak it so it ratchets on over travel correctly. Like you said, takes some fiddling.
Pls do more of this, it helps alot
I’m an old fucker, know how to adjust my brakes. This is a great educational video, thanks!
Us guys up North, self adjusting drum brakes😂😂😂. Other than pulling the drum off every 6 months and cleaning and lubing the star adjuster I have found no other way to keep the rust from seizing it up.
One suggestion, never use white lube on the star adjuster. It has water in it and will lock it up. Use copper never seize instead without making a mess or even waterproof grease.
On our 67 Pontiac with front drums, they were not at all self-adjusting from the factory. We adjusted them at oil change.
Tony a video suggestion would be cleaning, packing and properly adjusting wheel bearings. Most people do them completely wrong.
I ditch them front Drum Brakes on my Duster. When I went V8 I change my K Member use my disc setup. I learned that drum setup on my first Duster and Valiant.
Spot on Uncle Tony! I worked at midas for a few years, did hundreds of drum brakes, almost kinda miss it lol.
You have been so on point with the classes/videos lately 🙌 great advice even for some of us that’s been out of the old car great car loop for some time … Cheers 🍻💯
That was an excellent tutorial.
Excellent explanation for the newbies. Next lesson: The use of Jack Stands..... (ahem)
Forgot your Stands again Tony. Remember your a Leader. People follow your example. It only takes a few minutes to stay safe and A Second to have a Bad Day.
NEVER trust hydraulics!!
I'm having flashbacks to being at my buddy's place helping him work on his 66 mustang at some late night early morning darkness trying to take the drum off and turning the star wheel the wrong way and having the two high school kids at ass crack of night scrambling trying to figure this out... Ahhh good times
I actually used some of your tips on adjusting drum brakes, to properly and tightly adjust my parking brake shoes in my drum in hat setup, on my AWD car, which I use as a staging brake to preload the driveline before a launch. Works fantastic and holds the car back really good
1:33 me, looks at 1973 triumph tr6 rear drums, not all cars had self adjusters at that time.
Tony, do you remember the "trick" that made the rounds back then? Some people said to switch the brakes side to side so that the brakes would adjust every time you stepped on the pedal when the car was going forward! I was 14 (70 now), tried it, but no clue if it worked, the car didn't last long enough to know lol. Thank you for all you do!
Excellent well explained video. Very helpful, thanks!
I was lucky on my first car as it had duo servo system with cam adjusters. Then when I wore them out, I actually reconditions them, instead of fitting discs like every other person did.
Another humdinger of a video! Just did all that on a 67 Coronet that sat for 28 years in my barn. Love the nuances you present. Always learn something, even if I think I know it all.
Great video, Uncle Tony.
It's a much bigger challenge doing the rear brakes, especially if you have a Sure Grip, and as in my case, 4.56 gears, the drag is substantial. I sometimes remove the wheels and adjust the brakes to where I can just slip the drum on. Leaving the 9 1/2" GM brakes out of this, there were some fine drum brake systems out there, especially the 11" used on Chrysler muscle cars
Don't forget the self adjusters only work when stopping in reverse so it is important to back up and forceful stop from time to time to get the brakes to adjust.
Yes Tony brings back a lot of head Akkkkks because they never work the way that they should unless you do the brakes yourself godspeed
Hmmmm….you got me thinking.? My car has non adjusting rear drums in rear. I think I am adjusting them wrong. I am adjusting them a little too loose… I turn the adjuster til there is very little drag….but you show quite a bit more drag. Will try adjusting a bit more . 👍
Thank you sir! These videos are extremely helpful. God bless
When I was approaching the point of proper adjustment, and especially after taking up a lot of slack, I liked to hit the brake pedal to center the shoes before touching up the last little bit. Sometimes only one shoe drags, leading you to think you are done. Anyone who had an old Volkswagen beetle was under the car almost once a month to maintain a decent pedal height…. if not that, then it was trying to keep the valves and carburetor spot on!
When I was doing apprenticeship, I found it hard to get any information easily, you ask a question and didn't You do it at TAFE school we didn't have that when I was apprentice, and then they turn and walk away, probably didn't help that I was already 28 before I started my apprenticeship,great demonstration, thanks for sharing ,all the best to yous and your loved ones
I needed this video 2 years ago. Some teeth were broken, took till midnight to take off the drum and clean up the seizing rust. One locked up wheel stopped the rv from moving. It was 1970s D30 Winnebago. And then there were no breaks at all, that's the next venture, perhaps the brake booster.
Perfect timing just in the middle of renewing all 4 drums and brake lines on my 65 barracuda. First time doing drum brakes. Thanks Tony
I was taught to JUST tighten the drums until they scrub softly.
Once they wear down some, say in 3 days of driving, do this one more time, and they should do fine from there on until the shoes wear down enough to be replaced.
The GMs have an observation port on the drum, but it's easier to pull the drum off anyway.
Perfect video for the rear brakes(and wheel cylinders) I'm about to do on my 1986 Plymouth Gran Fury.
Tony, please use jack stands! Otherwise excellent video!
Your spot on bro with guys getting into older cars now and wanting to work on them your content is ideal for the newbies, keep it going brother 👌
I seem to remember that the Plymouth self-adjusters worked to tighten the shoes when backing up, and if the driver frequently backed up while turning in the same direction, such as backing out of a garage into the street every morning, then the brakes would become imbalanced L to R. One side could get too tight, while the other side remained loose. Great vid, UT!
Can't wait to get rid of the drums on the rear of my XJ.
On my late 1960's Mercedes 220D, it was such low power, I would adjust all 4 drums to have no drag to keep parasitic lose to a minimum, it was not fast enough to worry about not enough brake
Good video Im a old timer in this as well yep did that exact procedure in my 10 sec Road Runner drums all the way around actually better than disks in a few ways.
I am no auto mechanic, but I am a die-hard 70's Chevy operator, and got something out of the video. Simply releasing the shoe tension on a seized-up 1-ton drum rather than using violence I had not considered.
My 2011 Toyota Tacoma has rear drums even with the fancy traction control system
Went to local shop for replacement rear drum system on 89 F150. It will be done tomorrow they said. Three days later, me and the guy at the counter are walking a noob through Ford rear brake replacement. I didn't mind though. Good lesson and a good repair job.
Thanks for the video UT! Adjusting the brakes on my 69 Thunderbird and this helps!
For rear brakes, I'll adjust one side with a tire on, and the tire off on the opposite side. Then on the other side, take that opposite tire off, otherwise you're feeling the drag of the first side and you want them even. You may mention this by the time the vid is over, but I'm just saying basically the only thing I know about adjusting. I always have a hard time using a screw driver in there, especially my 2010 Silverado.
Even my 1988 Plymouth Reliant self adjusters don't work. Been hearing the spring sound with a low pedal for the past year. Went to adjust it yesterday one side needed alot. Other side was frozen adjuster bent the drum banging it off to adjust it.
Now gotta replace the drum and separate the hub/repack the bearings.
You should do a video on the staked/swedged drums. The hub and drum are stuck together gonna try a hole saw tomorrow....
Just a few months back, finished changing the front shoes on my Chrysler C body, I've thought that no drag is good while the wheel is rotating, thanks for another enlightening video as always Tony, learned something new. Hope you cover something soon on the pre-65 era Chryslers where the rear drums are tapered axle, pain in the ass, but at least it's got the death grip!
This would explain why i have a pull to the right side, Passenger side is adjusted correctly with some drag while the drivers side mostly free wheels, not adjusted fully. The adjustment i initially used was equally adjust both front shoes till a light drag is felt, then i would drive to a local HUGE parking lot then reverse up to around 15/20 MPH then mash on the brakes, the theory was that the brakes could get "Comfy" in their natural self adjustments.
EDIT: The grabby brakes on some drum systems could be attributed to an overlooked issue, The backing plate where the shoes rub up on the 3 points per shoe on the backing plate, can and will "dig" a channel causing the shoes to get jammed and cause a sudden brake grab as the brake pressure building up in the lines suddenly "Launches" the shoe to the drum HARD.
Simple solution to the backing plate wear is to use a stick welder, Flux core, or mig welder and fill in the groves. Then grind the weld most of the way down, then finish up with a flat file so you don't take to much off. Easy way to restore a worn out backing plate that you can't get ahold of anymore.
@@williamallen7836 Yes, nice catch! Forgot to mention that bit on the welding aspect of the backing plate.
Top man, helped a lot.
I would be very interested in your knowledge about the normal forward function of drum brakes, such as how the primary shoe (smaller liner) when activated then grabs the rotating drum to act against the secondary shoe (larger liner). Also what real world effect would occur if one side of the dual piston brake cylinder seized.
Really great description
Good refresher.
Thanks Mate...Very Informative
Old School Tony fun to watch almost as good as those old perfect circle demonstration movies from auto shop back in the 70s
Nice snag on that screw driver at 6:08. !
The star wheels is different from side to side one is right hand tread and the other is left handed. Do one did at time when replacing shoes. Take pictures before taring thing apart. Can save a lot of time and confusing later.
Great information, brother 👍.
Thank you Sir
The old GM ones with no access to adjust suck. If it gets the ridge,getting the drum off can be a battle..frankly I can't stand drum brakes, but when working right they do work.
Also, I noted the Duster or Champ or whatever ever it is, uses a wheel cylinder with two plungers (rods). I had a 61 Chrysler. I do not remember the model but the brakes used two single plunger wheel cylinders on each wheel. One at the top and the other at the bottom. The set up provided even cylinder pressure to the top and bottom of the brake drum, instead of the springs only at the bottom as shown here.
I suppose Mopar switched to springs and dual plungers to cut costs in the late 60's.
Even my 98 Dodge 1500 P/U has that set up. Except smaller. It seems like that set up has to be clean as can be to adjust correctly. Once the brake dust and grime get in they stop adjusting and you have to go in and clean and lube everything up to get them to work again.
10:30 I sure wish I knew this when I was about 15. I was told the only thing I could do was shatter the drum and replace it. Good vid UT!
Depending on adjustments the emergency or parking brake may also need to be adjusted 🙂
Good point!
Thank you for this! I have a '56 Imperial with stuck wheels... it has been sitting too long. I do not know if it has this type of drum brake, but being able to manually retract the shoes to get the wheels off without fighting off all the rust... that gives me hope. After I get everything off, I have to de-rust it all, and I'm going to try the electrolysis method you had in a video maybe a year ago... wish me luck!
This stuff was all still common knowledge when I first started to drive and work on cars in the late 80s (I'm gen-x) Even though this was 20 years out of date, a lot of these old drum brake cars were still on the road (not to mention most cars had rear drums, even if they had front disc). My best friend had an olds (for some reason I want to say it was a Buick, but Buick apparently never made a rocket 350) with a rocket 350 in it that had drum brakes all the way around. Today, nobody can even drive a stick, let alone mess with drum brakes.
People's heads really turn when I get the dwell meter out!
@@MattsRageFitGarage Cold war motors (a youtube channel I follow, great channel) has a machine for it. It needs to be "programmed" for the type of set up it is and the programming is done with a key tha tyou put in in different configurations that push down the right combo of pins, almost like a paper tape. It's comical.
@@tarstarkusz Sounds like a sun engine diagnostics machine or similar. I have a Sun 1020 myself. Sadly, most of the functions on it have quit working over the years.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I don't think so, at least not from a quick search for sun engine diagnostic machine. This is a machine you put the distributor in and it spins it. It has a tach on it that physical shows the characteristics of the distributor.
@@tarstarkusz that would be a distributor machine. I wish I had one of those.
I have a 72 Duster 340 with 4 wheel drums. Just completely redid my front brakes changed everything in there except the actual drums, which nowadays are difficult to find and expensive. The self adjusters seem to be working fine. Also did the rear drum brakes on my 71 Mach 1 about a year ago with everything new including the drums, and the self adjusters also seem to be working fine. The self adjusters will work as long as everything is nice and new and within factory specs, obviously a lot of cars will not fall in that category, if not most cars. It has always seemed to me that the biggest issue with the self adjusters is worn parts, on my Duster when I removed the front drums, the pawl had damaged the star wheel, so they would not work, plus the self adjusting cable was a little stretched. If you have new or good drums, and you get new shoes, a complete hardware kit (which has all new springs), and your self adjusting repair kit, everything will work as intended, at least that has been my experience. To top it off the parts are cheap, I paid less than $15 for the complete hardware kit and the self adjuster repair kit from Rockauto, and that does both front drum brakes.
Tanks for sharing
I still have my brake spoons and spring removal tools from 1975!
Great T Shirt.
A lot of kids don't know how to install drum brakes but have no problem with disks .
I always tried to adjust with an oil change when the automatic adjusters got behind on the job
I also inspect the spots on the backing plate where the brake shoe rubs back and forth on to mke sure there's not rut spot where the brake could stick . if all checks out I mixa combo of antiseize with PB blaster and put some on those flat spots and on the brake adjuster and it moving parts . it keep the adjuster from seizing up from rust,brake dust and heat
Great video! I just found your channel and have subscribed.
Great content!
Sometimes I'd just pull the hub cap (NOT the wheel cover) and remove the cotter key, take off the castle nut then remove the wheel and drum all at once. Put on the new brakes, tighten the castle nut and back off until you can catch the first hole (so you don't overtighten the bearing) check the drag and adjust the brakes until good....AND PUT A NEW COTTER KEY PIN BACK IN SO YOUR WHEEL DOESN'T FALL OFF! Replace hub cap and wheel cover.
Also while adjusting , take a medium screwdriver and pry lightly front to rear on the star wheel to get a sense of how much clearance needs to be adjusted out , sort of sneak up on it, cause it can be a real bear if over adjusted,a real pain for the novice
Good one! Yes, I do that myself but neglected to mention it.
And if the nubs on the backing plate (that help keep the brake shoe assemblies centered and moveable) get so worn down they are flat - the brakes will grab and stay stuck more often that not. Then you have to replace the entire backing plate. Happened to me with my 1990 Chevy K1500 rear brakes. I have many videos about it. Ugh, what an ordeal.
I’d love to have that Dart. Just a regular regular good condition car. Mopars in my area are so overpriced it’s ridiculous.
Great video as usual Uncle Tony... Thanks for the "refresher course"!
Could you please do a short Part 2 spot at some point and feature the Lockheed drum brake systems as used on Willys-era Jeeps? (I'll bet you've had occasion to mess with some of these, and they are unique.)
The gang at oldwillysforum would certainly appreciate it!
Joe B
A good brake check in reverse from time to time keeps the shoes adjusted properly on a Bendix style braking system. Leading and trailing brakes are adjusted by firmly applying the parking brake. I use to laugh at the old guys 20-30 years ago driving like maniacs in reverse while stomping on the brakes trying to adjust leading/trailing brake systems, lol.
Don't forget to adjust the parking brake cable after replacing rear shoes. I like my parking brakes to do their job with minimum travel.
I've only ever used a flat screwdriver and pliers on drum brakes. I've even gotten away with just a screwdriver before.