What's the Largest Urban Center in Ohio? It's Not So Straightforward
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- čas přidán 22. 04. 2023
- "What's the largest city in Ohio" is not a simple question to answer. This video is an analysis of each of three most populous urban clusters in Ohio (Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati) to determine which of the three is the largest. There are several ways to define "largest" in terms of cities and metro areas, and perhaps each of the three can claim to be the biggest.
All data come from the U.S. Census Bureau (Census 2020)
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I'm from Cincinnati and I love arguing this with people. Downtown Cincinnati and Downtown Cleveland both feel like way bigger cities than Columbus but Columbus city proper is technically way larger on paper.
There's definitely a lot more in downtown Cincinnati and downtown cleveland than downtown Columbus. I've been to all 3.
after WWII columbus forced suburban areas to annex to get connected to city water. cleveland and cincy couldn’t do that to the same extent
I agree, downtown Columbus is lacking in density. They are building a lot of 12-19 story buildings… that won’t cut it lol
As a Clevelander I agree. Columbus is unfairly benefiting from being the capital and vacuuming up all the money.
I agree, Been to all 3 Downtowns, from Columbus and it certainly "feels" the smallest.
As a native of a Dayton suburb, I agree with your assessment that Cleveland > Cincinnati > Columbus when going by feel of population size. Man I hope Amtrak can get service up and running on this corridor soon
Don't hold your breath on Amtrak. That was tried decades ago and was shut down due to the infrastructure needing major improvements. Currently, the only Amtrak permitted is the Northern part along Lake Erie and a small portion through Cincinnati(Union Terminal) connecting Kentucky and Indiana. The tracks are designed for freight trains and can't hold the high speed of Amtrak. Even freight trains have trouble staying on the tracks, there's no way it'll hold Amtrak.
There are actually plans that are all the way finished amtrak just needs the state governments (and dewines) approval and the train will start construction
@@Joshisepic2222 At the taxpayer's expense exceeding $100 BILLION long before it will ever be finished. If Amtrak was willing to flip the bill I'd be all for it, but Amtrak can't afford it because they're too stingy and cheap. The only track they actually own is along the Eastern seaboard, the rest is all leased from the freight lines. Same problem as 40 years ago, they aren't willing to pay for their own and insist the people pay for it twofold, once in taxes and again with ticket sales. If it does get approved by the State, it'll be another fiasco like the one in California.
@@neolithicnobody8184 amtrak is a public service just like the interstates and no one complains about them being an expense to the tax payers
Unless its fast service, who would ride it. And even if it is fast, it'll take years to build a following. The State house loves their roads. It should have been built back in the early '70's when first seriously talked about, before the suburbs 'won'
Just want to say that Cincinnati is dope. I’ve had a phenomenal time there each trip I’ve taken. Such a cool urban fabric and it’s affordable.. if I had to move back to the Midwest, Cincy would be near the top of the places to relocate for sure. Just wish it had a train connection to the airport.
.... or just HAD an airport! (Yes, I know... but it's in bleedin' Kentucky!!)
Yea the airport is in KY. Also why is Cincy so swampy? Went there for a big concert, descended down a hill from KY to the place, could see downtown cincy on the river. BUT IT WAS ALL SWAMPY and fucking mosquitoes. Where I come from this was the worst and we have plenty of swamps and mosquitoes. Someone care to explain why cincy is worth a second chance?
@Greenlandshark77 you should probably isolate yourself if you consider that a valid point.
@@richardmercer2337The airport is called CINCINNATI/NKY INTERNATIONAL. Meaning it serves Metro Cincinnati. If you fly to that airport, your ticket will say Cincinnati not ky. It's across the river because that was the best place to put it.
As someone from Cincinnati I feel it is unfair to discount the Indiana and Kentucky because the main airport CVG is in Kentucky and you go through Indiana on I-275 and most people go through all three states regularly.
Agree. There are plenty of metro areas that cross state lines: Chicago, New York, DC, etc.
Here is my question, and answer truthfully - you don’t spend actual time in the other states. Yes if you live in Cincy you will go in between the 3 states on the highway, but are you kicking it any of those areas? I know many people from Cincy and nobody is doing anything in Kentucky or Indiana, but they will go over a bridge downtown and be in Kentucky for a second on the highway.
Agreed, Cincy is basically not even in Ohio and shouldn't count at all 😄
@@Maxwell_FromTheLand People who live in Cincinnati also go to Newport. There are many businesses and things to do there
@@Maxwell_FromTheLand I live in Cincinnati city proper, I can see Kentucky from my bedroom window. I grocery shop in Kentucky, get my gas in Kentucky, go to bars and restaurants in Newport/Covington (KY). Myself and most of my friends spend a lot of time there, so yes.
I agree with the “feel” and I think it’s largely a legacy of Cleveland’s history as an industrial powerhouse that previously had a much larger urban population.
The two tallest buildings in the state, several rail transit lines, 3 major league sports teams, it feels way bigger than the other two even if that’s not necessarily true.
Cleveland has that play opera district too. Cinncinnatti feels big with an NFL team and MLB team and nice aquarium just outside of downtown though.
Cincinnati has three major league teams, too. MLS might not seem big time to people in cities without a team, but I can tell you MLS is growing and VERY popular Cincy and Columbus. After North America hosts the next World Cup MLS will be right up there with MLB and the NBA in my opinion.
@@michael7054 don't forget about cincinnatis world famous zoo RIP Harambe
@@connornull6902 yeah true
Columbus zoo is larger and better. Cleveland feels small and empty to me
It should be noted that Cleveland is the ONLY city in Ohio with a rail transit system. It even connects the airport to downtown!
Ohio is a unique state for this reason. Few other states have multiple cities all about the same size and status. Though I think the lack of one DOMINANT city gives people the impression that Ohio is more dominated by small towns and sleepy suburbs. Even though the state has nearly as many people as Illinois, even with Chicago, and overall a higher population density than Illinois.
I've been to all three cities:
Columbus definitely feels the most progressive and youthful (being dominated by Ohio state) and fresh of the three (due to more growth and more modern architecture), but aesthetically feels noticeably more suburban than the other two.
Cincinnati honestly, if you are just talking about the urban core, not even the whole city proper, despite its relatively small size, has an urban core that is one of the most impressive in the country. Hear me out - More than other city away from the East Coast (and San Francisco) has an urban core areas dominated by rowhouses similar to that of East Coast cities. The fact that you can go from vibrant neighborhoods revolving around a major university, walk through neighborhoods that have passed/stood in for Harlem/Brooklyn in movies (Over the Rhine) and to the Central business district without crossing a freeway - few other cities offer this possibility of urban living.
Cleveland is a bit more hollowed out as far as inner urban core than Cincy, (its a bit more similar to Detroit in this regard) but overall definitely feels the biggest as far as a metro area with its larger CSA. It has relatively ethnically diverse suburbs (IE: Cleveland/Shaker Hts where there are major Italian, Jewish, and Eastern European dominated neighborhoods that are more similar to Chicago or east coast cities in this regard), wealthy exurbs (like say Chagrin falls), and satellite cities spreading across a wider geographic area than the other two. By comparison Cincinnati and Columbus get rural both physically and culturally pretty quickly compared to Cleveland.
I’ve lived in Ohio my whole life, and Columbus for all of my adult life. I enjoyed this video a lot.
Columbus has a different feel from the other two. Cleveland feels like the industrial, rust belt city (more akin to Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh Columbus feels like the more midwestern city along the I-70 corridor (Indianapolis, St. Louis, or Kansas City)
I spent a bit of time in Cincinnati earlier this year, and was somewhat surprised at how "big city" it felt. While I've lived most of my adult life elsewhere, I was born in St. Louis - a city I feel has a strong similarity to Cincinnati. The neighborhoods, the food culture, the river-city feel - all very familiar between the two cities. When I encounter folks that harbor the "fly over" mentality regarding non-coastal cities, I always think of that river-city feel - and how uniquely American it is - and how so many folks fail to appreciate the rich diversity of our country. Ohio is definitely a place worth getting to know, so thanks for making this video!
As someone from Cincinnati, who lives in Columbus, I think Cleveland definitely feels like the biggest city but Cincy isn't far behind. Columbus feels very small in comparison to those two
Columbus just doesn't have nearly as much too. Like the NFL and MLB teams. And amusement parks.
@@michael7054 i mean we do have the crew, cbj, all of the state capitol and legislative buildings, the nationally accredited zoo, zoombesi bay, etc. None of which are as major or headlined as much as NFL teams or amusement parks, but nonetheless It's not like we're just the capitol building, we have tourist attractions too. Both CBJ and the Zoo help to put us in competition with the other cities in terms of entertainment and leisure.
@@michael7054 Columbus beats the pants off the other two for shopping.
@sozzysucks I just don't like NHL as much as NFL, MLB, and NBA though. Yes, Its one draw for the city though. I know Cinncy doesn't have an NBA team. Soccer isn't all that popular compared to the other pro sports in the US. I don't pay much attention to soccer on TV. I can see how going to a game in person can be fun though. The Columbus zoo is very nice. Buts it's just one thing though. Cincinnati still has an aquarium and pretty good zoo in 2 different parts of the city. Columbus probably has nice malls and other things too. Columbus mainly having a very nice zoo and NHL team even though it's not as popular as NFL and MLB doesn't seem like a ton of fun things to do.
Living in Columbus for the past 30 years I completely agree. Cleveland and Cincinnati just "feel" bigger. Probably because they both have NFL and MLB teams while Columbus just has the Blue Jackets (who suck).
Cincinnati is quite a gem in the sense when you are in the city, it feels pretty dense, and historically the rowhouses/townhouses help with this feeling, because when you are at any end of the city; the perspective of buildings keeps going; a lot of cities have gaps or the city literally ends. This is no way defeating Ohio's other cities.. I visit Cincinnati more just due to geography.
I’ve lived in each of the big 3 metro areas at one point on my life…but by far have lived the most time in Dayton and Cincinnati. I agree that by “feel” Cleveland feels a little bigger than Cincy. There are parts of each of the Big 3 that I really like, but there’s just something about the urban fabric, history and hills of Cincinnati that have won my heart over.
When a geography problem comes along, Kyle must whip it.
Only a person from Ohio, gets that joke!
Try to detect it....
This video is all the more reason why Ohio should have High Speed Rail!
Normally I defend the building of new Interstates or Freeways in areas that don’t have them but Ohio has enough Interstates/Freeways.
Username checks out 😢
The problem is "the last mile"
I’d gladly suck it up and pay extra in taxes for even just normal rail. Albeit I’d expect it to be actually nice and kept clean.
It takes at least less than an hour to get to any of these cities if you were in ohio
But the problem is that the government don’t want to spend so much money on the people, they want you to buy a car
Thank you for actually recognizing the combined metropolitan area of Cleveland and Akron. I’m a resident of the area (I live right on the border of Summit and Cuyahoga counties) and it’s extremely hard to tell where one metropolitan area stops and the other begins.
Having lived most of my life on the border between Stark and Summit, there are very few spots where development is discontiguous, so then the demarcation points I would say are the CVNP between Cleveland and Akron, and the much lesser known former Industrial Access Landfill EPA superfund site in Uniontown.
I've lived all along 77, 76, 90, 480 in Summit, Stark, Portage, Huron, Lorain, and Cuyahoga counties. Only been to Cincinnati twice as a teenager on school trips for band, so I didn't get much of a feel for the city itself. The zoo is nice though!
I agree with the acknowledgement that Cleveland and Akron metro areas are kind of indistinguishable from where one ends and the other begins.
@@Margar02 I live right on the border and it’s almost impossible. Even the many of the schools between the two suburban areas are in the same conference.
@@BigKy-Mart right but even in CVNP it all blends together
Going up 77N it's just one town after another Canton, North-Canton, Jackson, Green, Portage lakes, Barberton, Norton, Akron(and it's neighborhoods), Cuyahoga falls, Stow, Hudson Twinsburg, Independence, Northfield, and then Cleveland and it's neighborhoods. I feel like in 50-100 years it's gonna end up Like New York City, one Big city, with burrows, and those burros will have neighborhoods. That would be one heck of a city.
I grew up in Columbus, and this is exactly the video I've been waiting for.
Thanks again Kyle.
I’m a native New Mexican, with midwestern college life, and now a New Yorker of 18 years. I just ticked New Hampshire off my list of visited states, only South Dakota and and South Carolina left. Love your content. Fellow geography nerd - out
So, just as Ohioans are afraid of trees, Jason is Afraid of All Things South.
You will LOVE South Dakota! I'm a Nebraskan and I have visited SD more than any other state by a large margin. Granted it's been mostly the Black Hills/Badlands but still, I will never get tired of it.
south carolina is nice, go check out charleston
Also a native New Mexican currently in college in the Midwest 😂
You've been to North Dakota but not South Dakota? How? At least South Dakota has Mount Rushmore, the Badlands, and Wounded Knee. North Dakota isn't even convenient as a drive-through state for most trips unless you pass through South Dakota first.
I live in Dayton. I used to live in Cincinnati and commuted to Dayton for work for 8 yrs. The burgeoning Cincinnati Dayton metroplex is real, just based on my time here and the commuting patterns and media markets blending together in alot of ways, both radio and TV. I agree it will be officially combined by 2030, but it already unofficially is now.
I always love that you will consider Cincinnati-Dayton as one metro. 75 between those cities is never ending development and you can never really tell when you are in one or another. The two are so culturally similar and can really only be compared to each other within the state in that regard. I grew up just outside of Dayton and now I am living in Toledo and the two are worlds apart. Love this video!
I'm not so sure I'd say the two are that culturally similar. Dayton feels a lot more liberal, and generally more laid back than Cincinnati. I live in Kettering.
Mostly 8 lanes from Dry Ridge KY to I-70 too.
There’s pretty much no empty land on the highway south from Dayton to Cincinnati. Hell we even get most of their radio and tv stations here
@@ObsydianShade I finished college at Wright State in 2007 (was there from 2004-2007) and I'd say there still is a similar surface level culture. For instance everyone in Dayton is pretty much a Cincinnati sports fan and the Dayton Dragons are even a farm team of the Reds. Also I think both cities seem to take a little extra pride in their college teams and almost have an inferiority/little brother complex due to Ohio State getting all of the attention even though the other colleges do put out some pretty good teams and the colleges are pretty good in their own right. There also were still some more conservative suburbs (Beavercreek at one time was as was Miamisburg and Centerville) when I was there. Of course it's been 16 years since i've lived there but I've been back quite a few times and I drive through it at least 3 to 4 times a year when I go back to Ohio to visit family in Marysville and Washington Court House.
@@ObsydianShade Dayton and Cincinnati are culturally similar. Being only 45 minutes apart it’s hard not to be
I grew up in Ohio in the 1950-60's - a suburb of Cleveland, and have just visited my brother around Columbus. I agree that Cleveland seems like the biggest city in Ohio, but a lot of that has to do with the old large manufacturing plants and the still robust shipping on Lake Erie. I have always said Ohio is a good place to be from.
Columbus feels larger to me. Cleveland feels empty
A lot of the discussion comes from unintentional confounding of "city" and "metro area". In terms of metro area, I think Cleveland > Cincinnati > Columbus is still correct (though I haven't looked up the stats). In terms of just the inner cities, I'll believe anything...
We’re not necessarily afraid of trees, but it’s important to note that the terrain becomes more mountainous the further southeast in the state you go.
Meanwhile, poor Toledo is holding down the fort in the Northwest…
Someone has to keep those damned Michiganians out.
Sandusky is kind of there too
Visited all three cities a number of times. In different ways they each feel like the biggest. It's really interesting. Cleveland has the most big city feel to it/amenities IMO. They also have a good amount of urban inner ring suburbs. Cincinnati has the density going for it, and feels the busiest. I've encountered worse traffic around Cincinnati than I have in the other two. I think Cincinnati has the best walkability too. Columbus definitely feels less dense/big city like since it's so spread out. However driving up the whole urban core along High Street from German Village to OSU you can easily tell it's the largest city.
I like that each city is very different and has different things to offer. Over the Rhine in Cincinnati is easily my favorite urban neighborhood in the country. I love Mount Adams as well. I love the Ohio City/Detroit Shoreway/Edgewater area in Cleveland. Love German Village in Columbus, to me that's the perfect city neighborhood.
Love it when you cover Cincinnati, but come on! We Northern Kentuckians feel like the unwanted stepchild. The rest of Kentucky seems to think we’re too closely associated with Ohio to be truly Kentuckian, and some Cincinnatians reject us just because there’s a river that runs through our mutual home! I will always consider myself as “from Cincinnati”. And yeah, pouring chili on top of spaghetti is the only way to go! 😂
As an Ohio-based Cincinnatian I can say I love NKY…in particular Newport and Covington. I like that it adds a little different flavor to the area. And I hope both riverfronts keep developing more and more in the coming years….making a truly vibrant dual riverfront!
Sounds like northern Indianans vis a vis Illinois.
There’s a divide about the river but I’m glad y’all are part of the Cincinnati area, really adds a lot of color and uniqueness to cincy
Ooof you're not gonna like this but from what I've heard, people from Cleveland consider all of Cincy to be basically Kentucky anyways. The city really is just no-man's land xd
Ohios first step is annexing north Kentucky
This is exactly the type of nerdy specific content I subscribe for. Thanks Geography King!
I fly my nerd flag too.
This guy, with his Black Keys vinyl and Devo reference… love it! NE Ohioan here, this video was great. I’ve worked all over the state over the last 17 years in the Telcom industry and your final assessment is spot on. I also geek out at the map of Ohio almost every day for my current job and I frequently think about the potential megalopolis that runs through our state. You could almost throw Pittsburgh into the mix as well.
Thanks for showing the Buckeye state some love, Kyle. It’s much more than a “flyover state,” as many coastal dwellers seems to think.
Cincinnati here. Cleveland, without doubt, does feel the largest. Columbus feels really small compared to both, especially when approaching from the southwest. Also note that there is a huge void of nothingness between Cleveland and Columbus. You definitely feel it when driving up I-71. There is true separation there, to the point where you wonder if there will be places to stop for gas/food at most exits. Cincinnati and Dayton's suburbs are practically conjoined at this point. It is quite common for married couples to live in between, with one commuting to each. The next census is expected to merge them.
I completely agree about the merging of the Cincinnati and Dayton suburbs. Case-in-point is Springboro, which is technically in the Cincinnati Metro (Warren County), but would guess 4 out of 5 people who live there would say they live in Dayton. And I know a ton of people in the West Chester area that are just as you said: one working in Dayton and the other in Cincy.
Columbus feels the largest. Has the longest skyline. U can fit both downtown Cincy and Cleveland into center city Columbus. It needs to build more tall buildings and attractions
“Nothingness?” You discount Grandpa’s Cheesebarn?? 😂
Compare that with driving up I77 which is solid urban area from Canton all the way to the lake. Which is one of the reasons why I've always considered Akron/Canton/Cleveland to be one big metro area.
@@rahimi4762I disagree, I lived in Columbus for 7 years but am originally from Cincinnati, and Cincinnati seems to feel bigger and more dense. There’s more in the urban core, more elevators and more high rise buildings. On top of this Cincinnati metro is basically 60 miles of development from Dayton to Florence hence why it’s the largest metro
Speaking as a Columbus area resident who has spent a fair bit of time in all four areas mentioned, this is a very fair analysis.
Cleveland has much larger/more notable (non-government) “prestige” organizations which lend to the biggest city feel. Cleveland Clinic, Orchestra, Art Museum, Case Western Reserve University are all the most prestigious of their category in the state.
Admittedly, these organizations are all legacy organizations established when Cleveland much larger and more influential. They’re also increasingly subsidized by money from outside the Cleveland area.
As a geography nerd outside of Ohio, this clears things up I've always had in the back of my head. I feel people outside the Midwest have trouble distinguishing three cities that begin with C amongst their location, character, and size in a region where political boundaries are blurred by secondary influences. So thank you that was awesome 😄🙏🫡
Cincinnati is more compact as a a city, has some fine skyscrapers, and with a large river and Major League and NFL stadiums it has the feel of a major U.S. city. Columbus, although with a much more unimpressive downtown, has somewhat of a cosmopolitan vibe thanks to OSU and German Village.
A Lot of Columbus' things are spread out across the city and metropolitan area. Like the zoo, the malls, Ohio State, ect... There's not too much to Columbus' downtown other than the headquarters of Nationwide and other companies and the main library and some parks. Even the Columbus City Center mall died.
@@michael7054 You still got the Capitol building with the dome blown off :-)
@@terumasamaruyama lol
Columbus downtown is spread out. You can fit 21/2 Cincy downtowns into Columbus. Columbus downtown is very nice and attractive Short North, theaters, Franklinton, Scioto Mile , Arena District, North Market, German Village etc
Ohio
I’ve lived in Ohio my whole life. I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland, went to Ohio State for 4 years, lived in downtown Cleveland for 3 years, and now have lived in downtown Columbus for 3 more. My wife and I both have family in Cincy too, so I’m quite familiar with all 3 cities. With that said it’s truly hard to tell which is the biggest. Downtown Cleveland feels like the biggest by far (3 of the top 4 largest buildings in Ohio are in Cleveland), but Cincy and Columbus feel more “populated” when you’re walking around. Downtown Columbus may look small, but it’s packed with people, as opposed to Cleveland which is more of a ghost town at times. Cincy is hard because so many people that live in Northern Kentucky truly consider themselves Cincinnatians, but it’s hard to count them if they don’t actually live in the state.
There’s no way to really know the answer but it’s fun to debate. It’s also interesting because all 3 cities are so distinct. Cleveland has an older, almost east coast vibe. People downtown are up early wearing suits. Columbus has a younger population, with a suburban sprawl, heavy gentrification, and lots of different neighborhoods. It has a more artsy bohemian feel, especially in the short north/grandview areas. Cincinnati has a unique feeling too on the Ohio River, it’s almost a southern city both in its architecture and culture. Overall the 3 cities really encapsulate why Ohio has been such a good representation of America as a whole!
Cleveland's downtown population is the largest and fastest growing in Ohio.
I live in Preble county, the one county right in between the Dayton and Cincy metro. It's the middle of nowhere and I highly doubt it will ever be urbanized. I would also be cautious about adding in Darke county with the Dayton metro. It's extremely rural up there.
Why isn't Preble County included in the Dayton metro area? It's literally the next county over from there, but it's not part of any metro area 🤦♂️
@Jeremiah Allyn While the county is just to the west of Montgomery County, it has less of a connection to Dayton and is more rural. Dayton is mostly in east-central Montgomery County, and the bulk of the population of Montgomery is more on the eastern side of the county as well. The areas of Montgomery that tend to border Preble aren't nearly as densely populated either
Metro also identifies the newspaper and news most watch, where they work and shop and identify
As someone who lives in the Miami Valley (Dayton Springfield area), I know Dayton and Cincinnati have been arguing about being considered a combined metro area on the census because of the funding that both cities would loose. At least that is what I remember seeing during the last census.
When visiting From Pittsburgh, I was shocked to discover that Columbus is about the same population as Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh combined! I haven’t paid much attention to the growth of Columbus so I looked at their populations in the 1980s when I was in school. Each of the three other cities have almost been cut in half and Columbus almost doubled. Columbus is a sprawling suburb while the other cities still have urban cores.
"Whip it good" nice subtle ohio band reference. Thank you for including the impending inclusion of the combined metro for Dayton and Cincinnati. There are not many places outside of the coasts where you can drive on one highway, I-75, and be in an urban/developed environment for more than an hour.
Thanks for the video Kyle! I'm originally from the Northeast, but I've lived in Cleveland for the past 7 years. I've been to Columbus a few times and Cincinnati twice, but of all my experiences so far, Cleveland just feels like a bigger city. Especially because there are three major league sports teams, the iconic Rock N Roll hall of fame, Lake Erie. and the Cleveland Clinic. Overall Cleveland just feels like a more domestically/internationally connected city. When I go abroad, many people recognize Cleveland, but not Columbus or Cincinnati. Something about seeing a city on a Lakeshore just makes it feel more magnificent. When visiting Columbus or Cincinnati, it feel like I'm driving through large rural areas and all of a sudden the city is there. Whereas with Cleveland, it feels like as you approach the city, you can feel a gradual increase in development, giving it the feel of a much larger metro area.
Also helps Cleveland that driving on 90 east or west it's a long stretch of developed land, including a lot of high density areas. From Painesville to Vermillion is about 60 miles, and it's pretty much developed the entire way.
Part of that feeling is that because Cleveland is on the Lake Erie shore, there is no development to its north or northwest.
Cincinnati also has 3 major league sports teams
@@bcnkng Soccer doesn't count.
@@howardcitizen2471 Why? It's the most popular sport in the world.
As a Cincinnati native I love this analysis! Thanks for covering my home city and state this video.
Especially the chili part.
One thing I would add to this analysis is the historical peak populations of Cincinnati and Cleveland. Also, funny that all the metro centers start with a ‘C’
"Ohioans are afraid of trees" - Kyle, 2023
I'm not. I live near Portsmouth.
@@michael7054 - i am not from ohio, but always felt that your part of the state has a southern feel to it. where you are from, do people identify more with the south, or north?
@z-z-z-z I feel like the north because of our cold winters. I dont feel there's much south to southern Ohio. I don't feel like our food is very southern. There's not all that many black men and women in southern most Ohio compared to the south. Rural and country like country music, yeah I think we are that.
@@michael7054 - i should have clarified upland south (kentucky, southern w. virginia, etc.) vs. the deep south, when i said "a southern feel to it."
@z-z-z-z southern most Ohio is very similar to Kentucky and West Virginia as they are just across the river. Southern West Virginia as you said though is way more hillbilly and other things than people that live near portsmouth ohio, ashland Kentucky, and huntington west virginia. They do a lot more hunting and things than us. I don't know too much about what southern West Virginia's eat other than whatever they hunt. I think we are similar to more northern parts of Ohio in what we eat. We are rural and like country music here. Christian music is pretty big here too though. I saw Newsboys in concert last year. A lot of people around here like Rock music too though.
The algorithm is so weird. I'm subscribed, like, and occasionally comment, and this channel just goes away from my feed sometimes for months. Having said that, I appreciate the material, find it entertaining, and routinely find inspiration for getting off of my butt and going somewhere. Please just keep doing whatever material you feel like doing. Thank you for all of the effort.
I love seeing Cleveland and my state in general on this channel recently. Im from Cleveland and one interesting thing ive always felt is that Cincy always seems kinda southern to me vs Cleveland which has a much more north or eastern feel. Maybe thats just me. My dad grew up in Dayton and used to have quite an accent that has since faded
It's not just you. I grew up in Cleveland but went to college at OSU in Columbus, and MAN, let me tell you, the accent difference between the north and south parts of the state is very real. And this suspicion was vindicated by WIRED's CZcams video "Accent Expert Gives a Tour of U.S. Accents" - there is actually a linguistic change that happens just south of the Cleveland/Akron area. CLE is grouped more with the Great Lakes accents, while CBus is grouped more with the general Midwest/rust belt accents.
Cleveland has the same accent as western upstate New York and coincidentally has more Congregationalists and Unitarians whereas Cincinnati has a more southern accent having been originally settled by people from Virginia which is why there are also more baptists in southern Ohio. When I was student teaching in Cincinnati one of the other teachers commented on my Cleveland accent. When I was in the navy people thought that I was from New York State. My dad’s family is from Rochester, NY and their accent was identical to the Cleveland accent.
Everything south of Columbus is just north Kentucky and everything north of Columbus is just southern Michigan/NY. As far as accent, culture, etc. Even in south Columbus(Grove Tucky/Groveport) you have a thick southern/hillbilly drawl. North of the city you can already start hearing that Wisconsin/Michigan/east NY, “ohh, yea, geez, there buhhhdy, don’t’cha know what yerr doin’ there guy.”
Columbus is just normal Midwest, no accent, hodgepodge of cultures, tech/finance/insurance city, college town. We don’t have any accent here.
People from Ohio are not scared of trees. Matter of fact a forest sits right in the middle of Akron and Cleveland. It's called the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
Kyle actually gave the Cuyahoga Valley National Park great praise in a recent video. I can’t remember if it was the video on Ohio or national parks, but he really enjoyed it while he was up here.
I think it's more the development around extreme hills and Appalachia, rather than trees. I believe he misread the map.
both northeast and southeast ohio are on the appalachian plateau, but southeast ohio wasn't glaciated. the elevations are very similar all along the eastern part of the state, but the southeast is slightly rougher. you can really see it on the physical/elevation map. it has always intrigued me that there's such a difference between the areas. driving down through the athens area feels like a completely different country than up where I live in NEO.
Side note: Cincinnati's international airport (airport code: CVG) sits in Northern Kentucky. The airport is adding or has added British Airways, creating direct flights from Cincinnati to London's Heathrow Airport. The airport also has a direct flight to Paris, France via Delta, and Toronto via Air Canada. You can also go to Mexico from CVG, I think...
Needs Caribbean destinations
Nice Ohio video Kyle, especially the Cincinnati chili and the Akron Devo references at the end. I love all forms of Skyline(s) too.
Cleveland is like Detroit, Pittsburgh, and New Orleans: historically great cities that are shadows of their former selves, and thus have big city feels and amenities that exceed their now-diminished populations. Columbus is by comparison on the rise so its feels and amenities haven't kept up with its relatively large population (similar to Austin).
And Charlotte. But Columbus has been a big city for a long time so it’s older feel and has more amenities than Austin, Charlotte, JAX or Indianapolis and San Antonio of which are it’s true peers
@@rahimi4762 I'm sorry; I don't quite follow. Which of those cities are you saying are Columbus's true peers?
Yes. Austin although rapidly growing hasn’t realized much metropolitan growth hence the lack of amenities, also Austin has roughly the same city and metro populations of Columbus.
Very nice. Thank you. (Being a Texan, you ought to try this analysis on Tejas...)
I think Florida needs one of these videos too as Jacksonville is the largest on paper but using Metro Miami is by far the winner. But Tampa and Orlando are similar in size both in city proper and metros which puts them above Jacksonville as well. This is on top of other rapidly growing metros like Lakeland and Port st lucie. As a New Yorker who grew up obviously knowing what the states biggest city was before then moving to Florida would love that. Great video as always
Thanks for highlighting my home state! I grew up in Columbus with a lot of family in Cleveland, and we've had this debate many times. I agree though, that Cleveland feels like the biggest town. It just sprawls forever in each direction, especially with Akron and Canton included. I'd throw Ashtabula and Lorain in that mix too. They also have the best public transit with the RTA trains and everything. Columbus is definitely more densely populated and growing fast, but as soon as you hit the county line in most directions you're back in the cornfields. I have spent less time in Cinci than the other two, but I know that sprawls for ages as well.
And yes, chili and cheese just belong on spaghetti! We are also scared of trees.
The cities history really does put a lot into perspective, Cincinnati has a lot of other areas such as Lebanon which were founded early on and don’t want to be incorporated, similarly with Cleveland, Columbus growing up later and being able to spread out has allowed it to swallow up a lot of territory, I really do love having lived in Cincinnati and Columbus
I’m from Dayton, grew up near Cincy and now am in Cleveland. Cleveland definitely feels the biggest out of the three, and has the most culture in my opinion. Cincinnati isn’t far behind, but Columbus is a more millennial tech town feeling.
I’ve never been to Cleveland but Columbus just feels empty
@@sargentthiccboi9333 yeah Cleveland and Cincinnati are much more vast with suburbs and towns. Columbus is a downtown in the middle of corn fields lol
I've been waiting for this video for forever
I love this video Kyle thank you so much. As a Columbus resident from Cincinatti, I've always wondered how these and Cleveland stack up
Here in CA there is confusion with San Jose sometimes counted as separate from SF Bay Area. Also Riverside and Inland Empire being separate from LA.
Congratulations on hitting the 200k subscriber mark! Well deserved with all the great videos you put out 👍🏆
Always excited for new geography king!
you let the humor shine through a bit on this one. love it! keep it up, kyle
As someone who lives in Warren County which is part of the Cincinnati metro, but my house has a Dayton address and is much closer to Dayton than Cincinnati (Like 20 minutes versus an hour), I appreciate you making this video. I hope they combine Cincinnati, Dayton, and Springfield because it would make so much more sense than the system we have right now. Thanks!
Exactly. I’m in Montgomery county but if I literally drive like 10 minutes I start seeing 513 area codes. Makes sense to just combine it at this point
@@sargentthiccboi9333as someone from Springboro/Lebanon areas I agree
This. Was. Fun. Great job, Kyle.
Cincinnati has the nation's largest abandoned subway system beneath it. It was started in the early 1900's, in the bed of the Miami and Erie canal. The system has never had a train run through it and is currently used for water and utilities. WWI, the great depression, WWII, and then the popularity of the automobile, kept it from ever being completed. It is known as one of Cincinnatis great failures. If it had been completed, Cincinnati would probably be a much larger urban core city.
Great video, very informative!! Lifelong N.E. Ohioan here, I grew up in Cleveland, went to college in Canton, partied hard in Akron and now living near Youngstown......I was always fascinated with how the three cities compared and you explained things very well....Thank you!
Great video! I think Cleveland definitely feels like the biggest city of the three. It also has the 2 tallest buildings in the state in downtown. Cincinnati is definitely second. I think Columbus is a somewhat distant third. For one thing Cincy and Cleveland both have NFL and MLB teams and Columbus does not. Cincinnati has a nice aquarium just near downtown. Columbus does not.
Columbus zoo much better.
@myantispambox Yeah I hear the Columbus zoo and San Diego Zoo are the 2 best zoos in the country. Cincinnati zoo is nice though.
I like Columbus the best. Cleveland feels empty. Columbus is nicer
@@rahimi4762 yeah. I like Cincinnati the best.
Get Em!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂
I was born in Cleveland and lived there as an adult for 3 years. I visited Columbus and Cincinnati as well. Cleveland feels like the largest of the three because it was indeed a top ten city in the US at the turn of the 20th century. Owing to its oil and industrial wealth, its development and culture at times resembles more an east coast city than the other two, which are thoroughly Midwestern. It has a significant downtown whose streetwall is often used to mimic those cities. Its historic architecture, density, ethnic diversity, cultural scene, business community, patrician foundations, rich higher education offerings, and yes, sports teams all evoke the east coast to me. Which means these institutions and scenes allow Cleveland to punch above its weight in big city amenities.
I couldn't agree more. I live in an eastern suburb of Cleveland, and we've identified more with the Northeast than the Midwest. Even our weather is more closely aligned with the Northeast,
@Julie Harden me too. I grew up I'm western lake county, Eastlake/Willowick/Willoughby area. Planning to move back in the next year after years abroad and in NC.
In a sense because of the St. Lawrence seaway Cleveland is a seaport so could really be considered an extension of the east coast. Northeast Ohio is only 70 miles from New York State.
@@marcmeinzer8859 Great point. As Clevelanders used to say, "Best location in the nation!" Maybe they still do.
@@ernestabrogar4658 I lived in Honolulu for 2 years in the navy as well as New London, CT and Kittery, Maine and I still love Cleveland for many reasons. Cleveland as you mentioned is quite sophisticated culturally as for instance Trinity Episcopal Cathedral is absolutely stunning not to mention the great sports venues and the lake and the metroparks. Then also there’s the ethnic diversity. Then housing is more affordable than most places especially if you’re willing to fix up a house in Cleveland proper. I don’t think that the winters are really all that bad compared to places like northern Minnesota. I also like that we’re just across the lake from Canada since I used to attend the Cleveland YMCA’s Canadian canoe tripping camp Northwoods which closed in 1974. Since I still wanted to guide when I got out of the navy I switched to Keewaydin, also on Lake Temagami, Ontario, the camp Michael Eisner described in his book CAMP, which is now 131 years old. I used to go paddling on Lake Erie virtually every other day during the summer back when I had a reliable bow paddler. Sometimes we would paddle out to the 5 mile crib from Edgewater Marina. Now that I’m an old fart I go paddling at Wallace Lake in Berea.
Nice DEVO reference at the end Kyle!😂
Great job Kyle! As someone who grew up in central Ohio I can share that central Ohioans have been trying to put Columbus "on the map" for decades. They do all kinds of tricks and schemes to add population to the city to make it seem bigger. I think that some of the Columbus city population includes some of the Franklin County suburbs, unincorporated areas as well as the OSU students (I can't prove that though, yet). Additionally, the City of Columbus is not only in Franklin County. The city itself extends into Delaware and Fairfield Counties also. I haven't lived in central Ohio since the 90's but I have love for my (soon to be artificial intelligence) cow town!!
The one standard you didn't use to determine the largest urban area is the urban areas! While city size and metro areas are greatly influenced by artificial boundaries (metro area borders are always at county lines), urbanized areas are down to the Census block. This is why it takes so long for the data to be made available. The initial from the 2020 census was at the end of December 2022, when no news organizations were paying attention. The order from Urban area is Cleveland, Cincinnati, then Colombus for both population and housing units. Interesting Colombus has the densest urban area of the three.
What happens when you have a college that has 60k students
That is interesting because everyone says Columbus feels so spread out and if you take into account the actual land area of Columbus, I think it's also the largest city of the three by land area as well because it has basically annexed any and all of Franklin County that another city didn't already have. Though Delaware County just north of Columbus has essentially become almost completely urbanized all the way up 3, 23, and 71. Union County (where I was raised) is now becoming the new area for urbanization because Delaware County has become so expensive and crowded.
@@AJSHOPE Urban area density can be a little weird. San José is the 3rd densest urban area ahead of New York and Honolulu. Modesto is number 6 (only in population density, not housing density).
I live in Cincinnati and agree that Cleveland feels the biggest and that Cincy and Cleveland have similar feels to their large sprawls. Columbus goes from City to nothing really fast. Thanks for the content!
Went out of my way to try Skyline chili in Indianapolis because of your review, so good!
I'm so afraid of trees, I moved from Cincy to San Diego county. I still love Skyline chili.
Interesting video most of my father's family are from Ross county and I used to live just north of Buffalo, NY, so I’ve driven through Cleveland and Columbus many times and Cleveland seems to go on forever. My brother used to live in Cincinnati, which also feels much bigger than Columbus. Hopefully you'll do a similar video for Texas, namely which is bigger Houston or Dallas and is New York City to Washington DC actually just one huge city?
Yeah, my impression of Columbus is that it's WAY more compact and dense compared to Cinci and Cleveland.
To me, Cleveland feels sort of like a "Baby Los Angeles", in regards to how far the overall metro area has spread, and how dense the sprawl is.
Columbus is spreading out. Some are actually talking about building a second outer loop beltway!
@@ItsEverythingElse We're possibly going to get a I-470 then?
most of the development is in a 25 by 25 box or so. it’s much easier to get out into cornfields from columbus
@@ilajoie3 there’s a 470 in eastern ohio. 671 or 870
Cleveland feels empty
Big fan Geography King! So happy you bring up Ohio. Born and raised in Dayton, went to school in Cinci, and live in columbus; I actually really enjoy Cleveland as well. I thought I was the only person who thinks about these things.
Thank you very much for covering this!
Great video. You can argue it any way. And while I'm biased I do think if we talking about what's the biggest metropolitan area in Ohio it's Cleveland. I can make the argument that Northeast Ohio itself (population 4,500,000) is the Cleveland metropolitan area. There are plenty of people even in Ashtabula County who view themselves as part of the Cleveland area. I also think the census gets it right when lumping Cleveland-Akron-Canton together, especially Cleveland and Akron. Many of the Akron suburbs are also suburbs of Cleveland (thinking Hudson for example). In my experience it's not like that in the Cincinnati-Dayton-Springfield area. Those 3 cities are distinct from one another and I know many people in Dayton that would be angry to be Cincy's number 2 city. It's widely accepted that Lebron James played for his "home town" team even though he is technically from an entirely different metropolitan area. The funny thing is explaining it just makes everyone right depending on how they view it, and all claims are valid.
I’m from just north of Dayton and I can tell you that your statement about how big the cities feel is spot on. Cleveland area feels huge compared to Columbus. Also going south on I75 from Dayton to Cincy you can definitely tell it’s two separate areas. But Cleveland area feels like one large metroplex.
Love your work. Keep it up brother!
I think Columbus feels larger. Cleveland feels empty. Yes I’m only 30 miles from
downtown. Columbus downtown area is a lot
Larger
@@rahimi4762 Right, but when I passed through Columbus recently, it just felt small. It went from cornfield to city, and then it was back to cornfields within only a couple minutes. Driving up to Cleveland, the urban areas just go on and on and on. Although once I'm downtown, it does feel empty because there's all that land and housing not actually being lived on.
Downtown Columbus though is a lot more dense and clustered compared to the deadzone that is Cleveland Public Square
This used to be the exact same situation in SC - Greenville vs. Columbia vs. Charleston.
Thanks for sharing, Kyle! I've been a fan of your videos for awhile. I get more amazed each time you ever bring up Ohio because I'm from Akron! Great video on my home state! I think you did a nice job covering the cities and counties. I can tell you a thing or two about northeast Ohioans... Some locals are 3+ generations deep living in NEOH because they love the area so much. There are so many various strong senses of identities with cultures, religions, history, industries, and schools... Along with Lake Erie, many people associate their lives among the CVNP, Cuyahoga Valley National Park (it's an awesome park I recommend to anyone before they judge it btw!) I would say its landscape, along with its river going into Lake Erie definitely affects local consumerism and housing choices... which leads into a point I think you missed - how atrocious Ohio's highways are! Excluding I-80, the highway systems that lead into the three major cities you mentioned here are all terrible. I feel that definitely has to do with the "spreading-out" of these 3 major cities with each of their counties, ultimately because it affects traveling in between each of them. For example, you called this a mega-opolis in your video, but there is no rail system that connects the three conveniently. But, I still love the state that I was born and raised in nonetheless, and again, thanks for sharing your findings! Love your content.
Also forgot to mention, nice Black Keys album! haha
Worth noting is larger population trends that have shifted the State's population south. Cincinnati and Columbus are growing metro areas, while Cleveland is declining.
Cleveland (like Detroit) peaked in the first half of the 20th century. They were once the 5th largest city in the US.
However Cleveland was the 2nd worst hit rust belt city, and has had a massive decline.
So the best to think of it as Cleveland was the largest city, Cincinnati is the largest city, and Columbus will be the largest city.
Cleveland's downtown population is the largest and fastest growing in Ohio. Doesn't feel like decline to me!
Can you do the same thing with Virginia? And I have heard of Cincinnati chili - have never had it - but it sounds good!
Thanks for doing an in-depth video on my state!
Thanks for an excellent and concise look at how many ways there are to assess the "size" of a city. Particularly a thanks for noting the criterion of how a city feels. That's the most important intangible, and there's no question that Cleveland is _the_ big urban center in Ohio.
Cincinnati has some of the most urbane housing anywhere off the east coast. In fact, "A Rage in Harlem" filmed its NYC scenes in Cincy, so similar is some the city's architecture to the brownstones of Harlem. But, the flavor and tone of Cincinnati is provincial and insular. In that city and Columbus, a visitor is likely to see 10 times as many people wearing football sweaters as drinking lattes.
Cleveland has always had the immigrant-fueled diversity, as do Toledo and Akron, particularly from Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and the Middle East.
Columbus and Cincinnati during the 20th Century had Germans, Germans and more Germans.
I’m a Columbus native - thanks for giving some shine to our state, Kyle. I get a lot of flyover State and “wait it’s all Ohio?” jokes from my college friends - but Ohio is a pretty dynamic state and there is a lot of cool growth in the Columbus area!
I went to school in upstate NY. Most from there complained about getting a speeding ticket while driving through to somewhere like Chicago 😂
@@trmbn65 Ohio is a 1 day drive from 60 percent of North America's population so a lot of illegal activity happens there and a lot of criminals pass though. Because of that if you have an out-of-state license plate the cops are more likely to stop you for minor things, just FYI.
Hella research done. Much respect King. 🙏🏿 😂
Kyle your love for Cincinnati is much appreciated
Having visited all three of those cities, I concur with your assessment of the "feel". Cleveland feels like a good sized city, Cincinnati, like a small city, and Columbus like a big town.
I've only ever driven through Ohio a few times on I-70, stopping for gas here and there, but the state has always been intriguing to me for exactly the reasons highlighted in this video. (Wait, I just remembered I had a layover in Cleveland and it looked awesome on approach and takeoff, with the lake right there.) The Midwest is a trip, but that's coming from an Intermountain West native.
A lot of people outside of Ohio assume the state is just one major cornfield. This video really highlights just how urbanized the state really is.
Crazy, cus Ohio Carrie’s a lot of seats and one of the most urbanized states in the union
Well those maps are a tad misleading as many of those metro counties on the edge of the cities are cornfields. Darke County is just as much of a cornfield as nearby Preble County but is counted as a "metro county" on the map while Preble County is not. Also some counties are half suburban and half rural. Claremont county is half suburban sprawl and half Appalachian hills with a very weird point where the Cincinnati suburbs abruptly end. A more accurate map is shown when they look at the more general state maps which more accurately reflect how those urban regions are sprawling. Those maps show that Cleveland and Akron are deeply connected, Dayton and Cincinnati are connected through a series of suburbs along I-75 (and Hamilton which is a bit off the highway) but still have a few gaps between them, and Dayton and Columbus have an entire county and a half (40 minutes) of a buffer between them.
TL;DR while Ohio is more urban than many people realize, the county level maps aren't the full picture.
Kyle, I dig the Black Keys album in the background (from Akron, OH)!
The census bureau is a bit whack to think that driving half an hour past farmland makes Dayton and Cincinnati one metro area.
And there's an hour of farmland between Dayton and Columbus.
And there's over an hour of farmland between Cncy and Columbus.
And there's almost 2 hours of woods and farms between Columbus and Cleveland. My brother and I both nealy ran out of gas in the exact same spot, and he called to ask where to get gas because there was no cell service for Google maps. I said, "That's funny, because I JUST ran out of gas there last summer. And I use paper maps. Take exit 156 to a rural, 2-lane highway 67 and go 7 miles south over the hills and through the woods and there's a small town with a nice gas station."
What's weird is that the only time I've ever been to Cleveland was when I missed the turn for Pennsylvania. It was super fast to go into and out of Cleveland. It felt like a small city, more like Toledo. On the other hand, Cincinnati and Columbus are wretched cities to drive through. It takes a while and there's always a ton of traffic.
But, don't take my word for it. I've only driven in them for 40 years.
Hi Kyle. Please review Lexington vs Louisville vs Northern KY. Thanks.
If Ohio would annex Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, we could have a 5 way royal rumble.
Nooo don’t take the burgh, take Morganhole instead
And Ft Wayne
Love the black keys album in the back! Northeast Ohio represent!
How about some content on The National Parks and also the parks that were but aren't anymore & why. Maybe even places that should be parks or shouldn't.
Really enjoy your vids, keep 'em coming. They are very informative, well presented and seem to come out just when I'm wanting one. Thanx🤠
"Ohioans are afraid of trees" 😂😂😂
I've only been to Cleveland among the Ohio cities but it definitely felt very big.
I grew up in NW Ohio and been in Cleveland for over 30 years- I wan to thank you for giving props to the Cultural Gardens of Cleveland. It is one of the best, underrated parts of the city. There has been a World Day celebration along this park in late summer that is very cool- but just walking it is fun. If they can figure out better parking along MKL, I think more people would visit the area- and monitor speed of traffic on MLK which many people consider a shortcut from I-90 to University Circle where the Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, University Hospitals are located. Love the videos and content, keep it coming!!
Columbus resident here, who has lived in metro Cleveland and metro Cincinnati (some of which was in KY). This is a solid breakdown - especially your reference as to how this area borders on being a megalopolis. If we ever get high-speed rail between these cities, that will seal it.
Oh - one other thing - Cincinnati had *BY FAR* the worst traffic of the three. For me, that made it the least enjoyable to live in - although the city has some very nice areas.
As someone who lives in the southeastern corner of Darke County, and frequents Dayton often, I still get that feeling of Dayton being much larger than it really is. An outsider might see its downtown and think it's several times bigger than it is.
for dayton's 137k people, having a metro population over 800k is impressive which is probably why it feels pretty big
Dayton lost half its ppl from its peak
I'm from Columbus, and as far as feel, I would agree with your assessment. Cleveland, then Cinci, then Cbus. At least as far as respective downtowns are concerned. As far as traffic though, Columbus feels the busiest to me by far. And that's even adding Newport to Cincinnati and Akron to Cleveland. There's just way too many people driving in Columbus, and the infrastructure hasn't even come close to keeping up with it.
columbus doesn’t have much traffic honestly. at least for a city of its size. outside of a few bad spots of course
The splits to the South of downtown is awful. But I don't think the interstate was made the right way there.
Columbus downtown is double the size of the other two that’s why. Columbus has the most bldgs over 400 ft in the state and they are all spread out. Hopefully downtown can fill all that in. Downtown Cleveland feels gray old dingy and dead
Great video! Native Cincinnatian here, but I find it hard to lump Shelby County OH in with Grant County KY as the same metro area. They are 2+ hours and 150+ miles away from one another with different geographies and varying landscapes, not to mention different plants being able to be planted in each area.
I'm a Dayton-area guy, and I concur. Darke and Shelby counties are too far north. And in my mind, a metro area has to make you feel like you're no more than about 15 minutes from city-ish hustle and bustle...and traffic. Those counties are too rural to count. Dayton and Cincinnati also don't seem as "combined" to me as Cleveland and Akron do, but that may be because I'm not nearly as familiar with NE Ohio.
@@petrushka1611 Agreed, right on.
I like to think of college allegiances when determining who belongs with who, and Dayton is a Buckeye town, whereas CIN is definitely NOT a Buckeye town (UC, XU, UK carry the day).
@@petrushka1611I would agree with your last point, although Cincinnati and Dayton are both growing closer and closer, with tons of neighborhood and commercial growth in mason, west Chester, Springboro, Lebanon… once the Monroe and Lebanon areas merge there should be a new metroplex csa population established I think
You should do an episode on cities 4-10 in Ohio. It would be interesting.