I can tell how much my knowledge of this game has increased because I used to not understand a damn thing you said even when you were trying to explain relatively simple stuff. Now I totally get you, this video was very instructional and I think I'm ready to give this build a go!
A super common pitfall of CoC is having onslaught on kill (mainly from boots) which puts them over the attack speed they need which is like a 1/3 of your dps lose. Highly recommend if you don't have onslaught on hit or always active don't have it at all in your build or building around it will feel super lame on single target and often just ruin your damage on map clear.
I've had one build where I intentionally did that. My attack speed was setup for not having onslaught for most bossing, while trading the dps loss for movespeed was well worth it for maps. If I had to do a boss where it procs, I still switched boots.
@@OggyTheTiger would you say 52CDR is a must??? Both my belt and boots and cdr but i wanted to get boots with tailwond etc. And idk if i can get both with my money would i lose alot of dps?
@@pa2tea CDR and attack speed is equally important as explained in the video, so yes you lose a lot of dps. You could try to get elevated cdr on boots and awaken orb with tailwind for relative cheap (4-5ex)
this is great info, breakpoints were confusing for me for a while, thanks for laying them out in an easy to understand way. i'll be playing coc next league
Well done. A lot of guides I seen skim over the basics and go over advance techniques which led players to overlook critical gear resulting in unoptimized damage.
I wish I saw this video earlier... Incredibly well explained on all of the intricacies of CoC builds, one thing I would add is the +3 mastery and level 6 of the gem helps A TON to hit the CDR breakpoint along with 20% CDR boots
Thank you thank you! I heard you talk about this on stream and I tried CoC in my 3rd league (back in 3.13) and it was very finnicky. Managing attack rate and CDR can definitely be tricky to the uninitiated.
Hey just wanted to put the calculus behind the tresholds here so anyone intrested can see : Servers ticks every 33ms. We will consider 3 specific ticks: 165ms (33 * 5) (Base Prock Rate) 132ms (33 * 4) 99ms (33 * 3) Base Cooldown is 150ms. The Formula for cooldown with CDR is the following : Cooldown = 150 / (1 + CDR) so for a specific server tick we have : CDR = (150 / Cooldown) - 1 Which gives us for : 132ms : CDR = 0.136 ~ 0.14 so 14% increased (POE always rounds against you) and 1/0.132 = 7.57 attacks / second 99ms : CDR = 0.515 ~ 0.52 so 52% increased and 1 / 0.099 = 10.1 attacks / second
I've been using Storm Rain for my CoC and it's been a ton of fun! I might use something like tornado shot barrage for clear, but I'm not sure yet since I'm still in act 7 atm I'm casting Discharge with astral projector and endless misery with a power charge stacking assassin and the damage has been good so far. I might also experiment with anomalous storm call to take advantage of the increased AoE with no downside
Nice video! It would be also helpful for new players to explain how critical strike chance is scaled (for spells, attacks, minions, heralds, global...). But can also be a separate topic and a new video.
I went away from your CoC FR build and immediately regretted that, moment of temporary insanity. You are by far the most helpful PoE streamer and your Discord is amazing. I'm now having so much fun with my build and bragging about my currency gains in your channel! You rock man!
Nice explanation for new players, great work :) One critique, at 16:00 I believe you're mistaken about onslaught not being calculated (unless I'm mistaken). I'm playing CoC Ice Spear and have manually checked my aps in a map using the char sheet, I looked to see if there's a difference once I get onslaught and I noticed there was. (lined up perfectly with PoB) Alternatively I believe you can use the Silver flask I think? The flask that gives onslaught. Pop that in your hideout and you can see it there as well. However if you're talking about generally understanding your aps without having to have your char sheet open while playing then I get it :D
Interested in trying to understand this archtype as a mid/late league addition- this is a great primer and I'll be sure to check out the earlier progression vids i saw you make. Would be interested in hearing your take on the variations of CoC (Pros and Cons of different classes/Ascendancies, Damage Skills, etc) if you get enough positive feedback. Thanks!
As someone who plays quite a lot of CoC builds, I would like to warn you all about Headhunter/Inspired learning. While wearing any (or both) of the items, you may (and will) steal a haste aura quite often. And since Haste aura gives you attack and cast speed buff, it can quite easily brick your build where out of nowhere, you will do literally 1/2 of your dmg
Thanks! That helps to understand the idea. Its my second and i want to try a build with coc, spell blade and energy blade. So this was the first step of understand xD now i search for smth simular for energy blade and spell blade
Hi Subtractem. Excellent video with a very good explanation of the build. Could you make a video explaining how to craft your claw, gloves and boots you have? keep it up
hi i love your learning video and especially the how to build a COC breakdown video. do you think if you can make a how to make a poison build breakdown?
@@subtractem hi thanks for replying, i have view it for couple of time already before this video🤣 my question here is 1. among the so many stats. can you give us a guideline on which stats is actually more important or all are as important. like faster poison (you said something like "100% faster poison" in that video) seem be the most important stats. i believe it to be call "deal damage faster". and also like i should get skill that can hit mobs as much as possible per second to get alot of stacks 2. temporal chain, i believe less action speed is the stats that sort of increases the increase the "faster poison"? i am a guy who play POE 4-6 hour a week. but i would love to personalize my own build and would like to play something like split arrow poison, although i think it is unrealistic.🤣
Oh, I'm so proud of you. Our little - middle aged - subtractem has grown up and is no longer making vulgar jokes. So proud, so very proud. Jokes aside, nice video. Actually informative.
I started running this too. Tried self cast at first bot the CoC version is way smoother. Would be interested to see the craft for those boots must have cost quite a few exalts with those elevated mods.
When to switch from the Essence Drain leveling build to CoC Cyclone + Forbidden rite? What are the status/triggers I need to pay attention before doing moving on to?
Thanks to this vid I finally truly understand the breakpoints. If I'm at 9.91 trigger rate, is it worth going for 10.1 or is it close enough to not be worth the effort?
@@subtractem I got it right at 10.1 but then re rolled the elevated tailwind value on my boots and I think that messed it up again, that or gem levels. I actually built way too much attack speed and am having to trim it back to hit the breakpoint lol.
ive always been stuck on my league starter and burn out but i wanted to go hard this league and your vids really help can you do a guide on int stacker? its always been the coolest build to me an i want to try and build it this league
Check out from two leagues ago, I did it on raider and it was smooth and cheaper than the Deadeye version though lower damage ceiling. Most of what goes into it should be about the same!
I was playing CoC icespear/eye of winter with lancing steel last league. Probably the most fun build i've played because of how complex it is. Still don't fully understand if breakpoints apply to skills like lancing steel though since they have a fixed interval of projectiles that hit the enemy. All I know is that it killed anything and my GPU at the same time.
Hello @subtractem, first thx for the video. Then, im getting energy shield problems with you new COC vortex assassins build. My energy shield is gonne really really fast, and im staying without mana to proc vortex and frostbolts, im with 55 cdr and 10.0 spec, any ideia what im doing wrong??
super noob enquiry : so .. if I want another set of CoC on a 2 handed weapon, that needs to have a seperate attack skill to trigger the coc right ? its not similiar to spell trigger as in just 1 atk skill can trigger all the coc at different items ?
question, wouldnt it make more sense to ignore cdr and just go for lots of attacks and more damage/crit instead of cdr? with enough attacks, the odds are very good you can prog it about every server frame anyway no?
I tried coc for the first time this league. It was miserable, getting enough crit chance while trying to get enough res while also using a bunch of uniques is really hard
Ideally you're always as close as possible to the threshold, but don't go over it. I believe hitting the exact threshold number is fine, but am not 100% on that.
aaahahhh. it clicked. we have this in rocket league too, where the physics engine is fixed at 120 ticks PS but the game engine at large accepts inputs at frame rate, so its possible to miss if you're not at a multiple of the phys engine. So POE's engine is 60fps internally?
So I have 37% CDR from awakened CoC and 15% from my boots. Ingame it says my triggering spell has 52% cdr and cyclone 15%. In PoB my damage decreases if I go over the first breakpoint with attack speed. What am I doing wrong? Does the gem not work for cyclone any more?
I am just starting the vid, but I'm curious as to how you deal with CoC mana costs without Mageblood and mana cost mana flask. CoC's dark ages started when they made CoC cost mana, and it's not really been the same since.
Tons of tools to deal with it: Replica conqueror's efficiency (-9 mana cost), Ring -7 mana cost * 2 (-16 total with catalysts), mana cost craft on flask (25% reduced cost), Gemini Claw (14 mana gained on hit), Essence Sap or other sources of mana leech. With all of that in my build my FR goes from 52 mana cost to 15 and I'm gaining 14 mana per enemy hit from the claw. I'm actually way overkill at the moment but it means I can even ignore map mods that make mana annoying. It requires a little problem solving but it's really not too difficult. The rumors of CoC's death in 3.15 are greatly exaggerated.
@subtractem I don't think the attack speed works quite how you described in the video with cooldown based builds. I think path of exile has some sort of smoothing where if you do two attacks in the same server tick they get processed across multiple server ticks. It's still really important to reach at least 10.1 attacks per second, but it doesn't hurt you to go over. I believe this because I did pretty extensive testing on seeing if raising my attackspeed past the 10.10 attack speed breakpoint would signifigantly impact my damage. I would test by fighting dunes hillock in a white map with reduced damage and seeing how long it would take me to kill it. I also used frostbolt as a my cast on crit spell because it's extremely easy to see when it skips a cast since it stays onscreen for many seconds. Changing my attack speed didn't cause more spells to not be cast.
This is incorrect. Your DPS will go to exactly half if you go to 10.2, you absolutely will cast fewer spells. It's one of the most tested things in poe.
@@subtractem do you have anyone who actually tested this? Because I rigorously tested it myself and was not able to drop my dps by even 10%, much less 50%.
I've demonstrated this myself multiple times on stream. It's very easy to test. Do a no-CDR setup so the default trigger rate will be 6.06 times per second. Raise your attack speed to 6.1 and you'll see roughly 3 spells a second instead of 6. It'll be very obvious. It's also easier if you do something like use Southbound gloves so you can just test on a single mob without having to reset. My suspicion is that you likely don't have the correct accuracy, crit chance, or attack speed in game so your test is flawed. If you're basing it on the in-game tooltip, for example, that will often be incorrect because it doesn't report based on temporary buffs or debuffs on enemies.
Edit: it was fixed! Hey, You mention checking tailwind, which doesn't seem to be correct. What action speed and tailwind does is speeding up "animations" of the character. The same thing as chill or temporal chains do with negative effect. Normally increasing the speed of the animation increases its attack speed if the skill does full cycle animation every hit. Cyclone though is a channelling skill and it starts with start animation and after that you're just spinning and just seem to "produce" hits with 300% AS. So action speed doesn't increase trigger rate for CoC, while PoB incorrectly includes it in trigger rate calculations. Action speed increases wind up animation of Cyclone though
If I remember correctly this was a bug that got patched and Tailwind does now affect Cyclone. Needs testing, I can't find the source for that but I remember hearing that.
CWC is much simpler. You don't care about anything that I really listed here except the damage the spell itself does. The main difference is you don't have to hit to trigger anything, it's just automatic. The downside is that it caps at about 3 triggers per second and you can't modify it so the damage ceiling is generally much lower.
So, what’re you’re saying is.. If I have 14% CDRR and my attack speed is 7.56, the next possible DPS increase will be at 52% CDRR with 7.58 attack speed? I’ll just stay away from 7.57 but it would work from 14% to 100% I’m assuming. Now I’m wondering if I had 15.14 AS w/ 14% CDRR I’d have the same dps as 7.57 AS w/ 14% CDRR. If this is all true then I understand everything. :)
Sorry a damn question from newbie, why the left side of pob template has a green wording: CoC Triggering Skill:Cyclone? Mine pob seems missed out something. Btw I'm playing ice nova cyclone assassin.
awakened coc has 0.15 self cdr and i can reduce it from belt and jewel (sum 15% = 0.13 cdr) , but this gem can give 37% reduce cdr only for supported gems. how is awakened cock can get 52% reduce cdr if 37% he gives to supported gems? forbiden rite has 0.10 cdr, but where my awakened coc has more cdr than 0.13 (15% reduce from belt and jewel)?
My attack speed is 14 and my trigger rate is 7. Does this mean I need to somehow find 52% CDR? I added like 13% CDR on my boots in POB and my DPS only went up 1,000
@@subtractem sorry last question, when you said if youre unable to get the required CDR you can run 2 skill gems. Can you run 2 of the same skill gems or do they need to be different skills?
You could double the skill gems and then go over yeah, this will cut the DPS of the primary gem in more than half though since you lose another support gem (and you already lose 2 because of attack + cast on crit). This is generally not worth it.
I don't understand how tailwind factors into this. Checking and unchecking tailwind in PoB does not affect attack rate. Even when you do it in the video it doesn't change the attack rate.
Is the character sheet inaccurate for crit chance? it look like his character sheet in game has 48% crit chance on cyclone, but I am pretty sure the POB has 100%? I am noob help.
nightblade will only support the attack skill, most CoC builds focus on the triggered spell as the main source of damage. So it would be a wasted link pretty much.
Onslaught is not action speed, it's just attack speed. Pretty good video otherwise, maybe a bit handwavy on the tick rates but got the idea across. I still bet Dual Malice is top DPS for Ice Nova though 😁
so the bottom line is not only does someone need to get a PHD to learn the game mechanics but we also need to take into account the crappy technical capabilities of the servers? ya, 10/10 game. They need to fix a lot of crap in PoE2
I can tell how much my knowledge of this game has increased because I used to not understand a damn thing you said even when you were trying to explain relatively simple stuff. Now I totally get you, this video was very instructional and I think I'm ready to give this build a go!
As a total noob currently leveling a CoC character this makes the archetype much easier to understand - thanks!
A super common pitfall of CoC is having onslaught on kill (mainly from boots) which puts them over the attack speed they need which is like a 1/3 of your dps lose. Highly recommend if you don't have onslaught on hit or always active don't have it at all in your build or building around it will feel super lame on single target and often just ruin your damage on map clear.
I've had one build where I intentionally did that. My attack speed was setup for not having onslaught for most bossing, while trading the dps loss for movespeed was well worth it for maps. If I had to do a boss where it procs, I still switched boots.
if you dont have 52% cdr then yes it will tank your dps but with that cdr you can just balance the attack speed elswhere
@@OggyTheTiger would you say 52CDR is a must??? Both my belt and boots and cdr but i wanted to get boots with tailwond etc. And idk if i can get both with my money would i lose alot of dps?
@@pa2tea CDR and attack speed is equally important as explained in the video, so yes you lose a lot of dps. You could try to get elevated cdr on boots and awaken orb with tailwind for relative cheap (4-5ex)
this is great info, breakpoints were confusing for me for a while, thanks for laying them out in an easy to understand way. i'll be playing coc next league
Well done. A lot of guides I seen skim over the basics and go over advance techniques which led players to overlook critical gear resulting in unoptimized damage.
I remember doing my first CoC- the reddit write up was nice but this is immensely a better resource. Thanks for making it.
I wish I saw this video earlier... Incredibly well explained on all of the intricacies of CoC builds, one thing I would add is the +3 mastery and level 6 of the gem helps A TON to hit the CDR breakpoint along with 20% CDR boots
Thank you thank you! I heard you talk about this on stream and I tried CoC in my 3rd league (back in 3.13) and it was very finnicky. Managing attack rate and CDR can definitely be tricky to the uninitiated.
you have shone the light. your insight has brightened the path for us all. your wisdom has cast a guiding light on our journey.
cool video. i've been trying to find videos that break down builds like these. would like more in-depth guides like this if possible.
Top quality guides as always!
Hey just wanted to put the calculus behind the tresholds here so anyone intrested can see :
Servers ticks every 33ms. We will consider 3 specific ticks:
165ms (33 * 5) (Base Prock Rate)
132ms (33 * 4)
99ms (33 * 3)
Base Cooldown is 150ms. The Formula for cooldown with CDR is the following :
Cooldown = 150 / (1 + CDR) so for a specific server tick we have : CDR = (150 / Cooldown) - 1
Which gives us for :
132ms : CDR = 0.136 ~ 0.14 so 14% increased (POE always rounds against you) and 1/0.132 = 7.57 attacks / second
99ms : CDR = 0.515 ~ 0.52 so 52% increased and 1 / 0.099 = 10.1 attacks / second
man if i studied that much for university exam, i would be working in nasa now. This game made all of us professors. Thank you for info btw
But what about ranged CoC, eh?
How does say...barrage or tornado shot change things up?
Now this is quality content .. good jokes on the side .. u sir are a full package 👌
I've been using Storm Rain for my CoC and it's been a ton of fun! I might use something like tornado shot barrage for clear, but I'm not sure yet since I'm still in act 7 atm
I'm casting Discharge with astral projector and endless misery with a power charge stacking assassin and the damage has been good so far. I might also experiment with anomalous storm call to take advantage of the increased AoE with no downside
Nice video! It would be also helpful for new players to explain how critical strike chance is scaled (for spells, attacks, minions, heralds, global...). But can also be a separate topic and a new video.
Thanks for guiding me towards my first CoC.
Many thanks for this. I was just looking at giving a CoC build a start. :) Hopefully I will make a few less mistakes
I went away from your CoC FR build and immediately regretted that, moment of temporary insanity. You are by far the most helpful PoE streamer and your Discord is amazing. I'm now having so much fun with my build and bragging about my currency gains in your channel! You rock man!
This is definitely the best job at explaining CoC anyone has ever done imo
This is a great explanation, thank you very much
Nice explanation for new players, great work :)
One critique, at 16:00 I believe you're mistaken about onslaught not being calculated (unless I'm mistaken).
I'm playing CoC Ice Spear and have manually checked my aps in a map using the char sheet, I looked to see if there's a difference once I get onslaught and I noticed there was. (lined up perfectly with PoB) Alternatively I believe you can use the Silver flask I think? The flask that gives onslaught. Pop that in your hideout and you can see it there as well.
However if you're talking about generally understanding your aps without having to have your char sheet open while playing then I get it :D
Interested in trying to understand this archtype as a mid/late league addition- this is a great primer and I'll be sure to check out the earlier progression vids i saw you make. Would be interested in hearing your take on the variations of CoC (Pros and Cons of different classes/Ascendancies, Damage Skills, etc) if you get enough positive feedback. Thanks!
3 league later I still come back to this video for all my CoC needs.
Very nice guide! Thank you!
As someone who plays quite a lot of CoC builds, I would like to warn you all about Headhunter/Inspired learning. While wearing any (or both) of the items, you may (and will) steal a haste aura quite often. And since Haste aura gives you attack and cast speed buff, it can quite easily brick your build where out of nowhere, you will do literally 1/2 of your dmg
Good guide to cover the basics.
Thanks! That helps to understand the idea. Its my second and i want to try a build with coc, spell blade and energy blade. So this was the first step of understand xD now i search for smth simular for energy blade and spell blade
Love the build guide help me out alot thx you
Hey if I put my pob on here can you see what I can do to improve my build I made
If you are at the 14% 7,57 breakpoint, do you benefit from having higher cdr, but still under 52%? or it doesen’t really matter if you have 15 or 45%?
Cast on Crit guide, aka CoC Tips :) You know the correct pronunciation. Looked fun on stream, might give it a spin sometime.
Giving a Spin to your CoC is always fun.
Hi Subtractem.
Excellent video with a very good explanation of the build. Could you make a video explaining how to craft your claw, gloves and boots you have?
keep it up
You sure that he didn't make it already?
Did you check his videos under the profile?
This makes me want to try out a coc-slinger build
now I know why my CoC Cyclone VoP isn't working as expected. ty sir!
YEAH! we need more CoC
You post this video as I am almost done leveling my own kitten spinner
loving the les paul standard man... maybe give it a play on a video would love to hear it!
I did a CoC build a few leagues ago without paying much attention to these numbers. Gonna check it out how much damage I most certainly lost
He found his new love, CoC
hi i love your learning video and especially the how to build a COC breakdown video. do you think if you can make a how to make a poison build breakdown?
check out the rest of the playlist on the front page, i have some explanations of poison and damage over time
@@subtractem hi thanks for replying, i have view it for couple of time already before this video🤣
my question here is
1. among the so many stats. can you give us a guideline on which stats is actually more important or all are as important. like faster poison (you said something like "100% faster poison" in that video) seem be the most important stats. i believe it to be call "deal damage faster".
and also like i should get skill that can hit mobs as much as possible per second to get alot of stacks
2. temporal chain, i believe less action speed is the stats that sort of increases the increase the "faster poison"?
i am a guy who play POE 4-6 hour a week. but i would love to personalize my own build and would like to play something like split arrow poison, although i think it is unrealistic.🤣
Oh, I'm so proud of you. Our little - middle aged - subtractem has grown up and is no longer making vulgar jokes. So proud, so very proud.
Jokes aside, nice video. Actually informative.
I started running this too. Tried self cast at first bot the CoC version is way smoother. Would be interested to see the craft for those boots must have cost quite a few exalts with those elevated mods.
thank you for this
serverframes important in the build^^ the community of this game is so sick! In a good way:) Thanks for the vid it helps al lot.
great video
When to switch from the Essence Drain leveling build to CoC Cyclone + Forbidden rite? What are the status/triggers I need to pay attention before doing moving on to?
Thanks to this vid I finally truly understand the breakpoints. If I'm at 9.91 trigger rate, is it worth going for 10.1 or is it close enough to not be worth the effort?
You'll get about 9% more damage. Always worth to go as close as possible. Aspd scales linearly and is usually super easy to get.
@@subtractem I got it right at 10.1 but then re rolled the elevated tailwind value on my boots and I think that messed it up again, that or gem levels. I actually built way too much attack speed and am having to trim it back to hit the breakpoint lol.
ive always been stuck on my league starter and burn out but i wanted to go hard this league and your vids really help can you do a guide on int stacker? its always been the coolest build to me an i want to try and build it this league
Check out from two leagues ago, I did it on raider and it was smooth and cheaper than the Deadeye version though lower damage ceiling. Most of what goes into it should be about the same!
A legend
I was playing CoC icespear/eye of winter with lancing steel last league. Probably the most fun build i've played because of how complex it is. Still don't fully understand if breakpoints apply to skills like lancing steel though since they have a fixed interval of projectiles that hit the enemy. All I know is that it killed anything and my GPU at the same time.
Hello @subtractem, first thx for the video. Then, im getting energy shield problems with you new COC vortex assassins build. My energy shield is gonne really really fast, and im staying without mana to proc vortex and frostbolts, im with 55 cdr and 10.0 spec, any ideia what im doing wrong??
super noob enquiry : so .. if I want another set of CoC on a 2 handed weapon, that needs to have a seperate attack skill to trigger the coc right ? its not similiar to spell trigger as in just 1 atk skill can trigger all the coc at different items ?
If you have mageblood, is it better to go for lvl 6 ACOC or to go for something like a silver flask?
do you have a list of skills that can be combined on a CoC build? like what main skill can trigger this sub skill thing? thanks
Thanks for the condensed info. Now please use an invisible Buff effect on your banner 😀
I want a bigger banner mtx
@@subtractem Vanguard Banner back attachment! It's my favourite.
Do the crit's from hits work or just attacks, because Spark hits but is a spell, right?
question, wouldnt it make more sense to ignore cdr and just go for lots of attacks and more damage/crit instead of cdr? with enough attacks, the odds are very good you can prog it about every server frame anyway no?
I tried coc for the first time this league. It was miserable, getting enough crit chance while trying to get enough res while also using a bunch of uniques is really hard
can i make this build with assasin, forbidden flesh swift jewel and nearly the same items? how do u leech energy shield?
Is this the same for bow skills? I'm trying to do FR CoC but with Tornado Shot. I don't know how to calculate the trigger rate on PoB
so, what's the rule on atk/s. do you aim to be just over/under/right at the calculated optimum?
Ideally you're always as close as possible to the threshold, but don't go over it. I believe hitting the exact threshold number is fine, but am not 100% on that.
if i have 52%+ CDR can i go slightly above 10.10 attack speed? something like 10.25 or will that negatively impact my build
aaahahhh. it clicked. we have this in rocket league too, where the physics engine is fixed at 120 ticks PS but the game engine at large accepts inputs at frame rate, so its possible to miss if you're not at a multiple of the phys engine. So POE's engine is 60fps internally?
You just can't give up the CoC.
So I have 37% CDR from awakened CoC and 15% from my boots. Ingame it says my triggering spell has 52% cdr and cyclone 15%.
In PoB my damage decreases if I go over the first breakpoint with attack speed.
What am I doing wrong? Does the gem not work for cyclone any more?
I am just starting the vid, but I'm curious as to how you deal with CoC mana costs without Mageblood and mana cost mana flask. CoC's dark ages started when they made CoC cost mana, and it's not really been the same since.
Tons of tools to deal with it:
Replica conqueror's efficiency (-9 mana cost), Ring -7 mana cost * 2 (-16 total with catalysts), mana cost craft on flask (25% reduced cost), Gemini Claw (14 mana gained on hit), Essence Sap or other sources of mana leech.
With all of that in my build my FR goes from 52 mana cost to 15 and I'm gaining 14 mana per enemy hit from the claw. I'm actually way overkill at the moment but it means I can even ignore map mods that make mana annoying.
It requires a little problem solving but it's really not too difficult. The rumors of CoC's death in 3.15 are greatly exaggerated.
I'm a little late here but wanted to ask if the server tick is the same on console if you know?
Servers are the same yes
Quick question, the build breaks if you have too much ASPD for the CDR breakpoint, but does it go the other way around?
what does "the other way around" mean? less aspd than your breakpoint is fine.
@subtractem I don't think the attack speed works quite how you described in the video with cooldown based builds. I think path of exile has some sort of smoothing where if you do two attacks in the same server tick they get processed across multiple server ticks.
It's still really important to reach at least 10.1 attacks per second, but it doesn't hurt you to go over.
I believe this because I did pretty extensive testing on seeing if raising my attackspeed past the 10.10 attack speed breakpoint would signifigantly impact my damage. I would test by fighting dunes hillock in a white map with reduced damage and seeing how long it would take me to kill it.
I also used frostbolt as a my cast on crit spell because it's extremely easy to see when it skips a cast since it stays onscreen for many seconds.
Changing my attack speed didn't cause more spells to not be cast.
This is incorrect. Your DPS will go to exactly half if you go to 10.2, you absolutely will cast fewer spells. It's one of the most tested things in poe.
@@subtractem do you have anyone who actually tested this? Because I rigorously tested it myself and was not able to drop my dps by even 10%, much less 50%.
I've demonstrated this myself multiple times on stream. It's very easy to test.
Do a no-CDR setup so the default trigger rate will be 6.06 times per second. Raise your attack speed to 6.1 and you'll see roughly 3 spells a second instead of 6. It'll be very obvious.
It's also easier if you do something like use Southbound gloves so you can just test on a single mob without having to reset.
My suspicion is that you likely don't have the correct accuracy, crit chance, or attack speed in game so your test is flawed. If you're basing it on the in-game tooltip, for example, that will often be incorrect because it doesn't report based on temporary buffs or debuffs on enemies.
Edit: it was fixed!
Hey, You mention checking tailwind, which doesn't seem to be correct.
What action speed and tailwind does is speeding up "animations" of the character. The same thing as chill or temporal chains do with negative effect. Normally increasing the speed of the animation increases its attack speed if the skill does full cycle animation every hit. Cyclone though is a channelling skill and it starts with start animation and after that you're just spinning and just seem to "produce" hits with 300% AS. So action speed doesn't increase trigger rate for CoC, while PoB incorrectly includes it in trigger rate calculations. Action speed increases wind up animation of Cyclone though
That is correct for cyclone but other attacks will be affected, just covering all my bases. Good clarification though!
If I remember correctly this was a bug that got patched and Tailwind does now affect Cyclone. Needs testing, I can't find the source for that but I remember hearing that.
3.13 Patch notes; Fixed a bug which prevented Cyclone's channelling speed to be affected by modifiers to Action Speed.
@@Tillbakakaka Oh thanks for the info! Poe is so convoluted sometimes
Wait so is cyclone affect by tailwind and onslaught or no? Lol
Is there a similar setup for cast while channeling? Like, did cdr affect it, and has someone figured out the breakpoints for that?
CWC is much simpler. You don't care about anything that I really listed here except the damage the spell itself does.
The main difference is you don't have to hit to trigger anything, it's just automatic. The downside is that it caps at about 3 triggers per second and you can't modify it so the damage ceiling is generally much lower.
So, what’re you’re saying is..
If I have 14% CDRR and my attack speed is 7.56, the next possible DPS increase will be at 52% CDRR with 7.58 attack speed?
I’ll just stay away from 7.57 but it would work from 14% to 100% I’m assuming.
Now I’m wondering if I had 15.14 AS w/ 14% CDRR I’d have the same dps as 7.57 AS w/ 14% CDRR.
If this is all true then I understand everything. :)
hey Sub, i have an unused mageblood i was wondering how the pob would change if i slapped that in
Check out the CoC FR builds on poe.ninja, it's the natural progression from where my build is at the moment...just a big monetary jump.
do you have a pastbin close by for your CatOnCrit build at different invest levels?
also this is now a CatsOnCrit instead of a CastOnCrit build
Check previous video. I've been documenting this build at all stages
@@subtractem awesome, I saw one of tyour other videos about it. but I will check the archives. thankyou so much
This build can it sustain 100% deli and simul without mageblood?
Sorry a damn question from newbie, why the left side of pob template has a green wording: CoC Triggering Skill:Cyclone? Mine pob seems missed out something. Btw I'm playing ice nova cyclone assassin.
Might want to make sure you're on the latest community fork of pob. It should say that for coc setups by default
@@subtractem Thank you
the part im struggling with is not meeting the breakpoints but getting damage on the spell im triggering .. >_>
mommy attack and daddy spell omg 😂 can't stop laughing
why your not useing the Mageblood in this guide?
awakened coc has 0.15 self cdr and i can reduce it from belt and jewel (sum 15% = 0.13 cdr) , but this gem can give 37% reduce cdr only for supported gems. how is awakened cock can get 52% reduce cdr if 37% he gives to supported gems? forbiden rite has 0.10 cdr, but where my awakened coc has more cdr than 0.13 (15% reduce from belt and jewel)?
My attack speed is 14 and my trigger rate is 7. Does this mean I need to somehow find 52% CDR? I added like 13% CDR on my boots in POB and my DPS only went up 1,000
You need 52% CDR to be over 7 aspd and less than 10.1, you can _never_ go above 10.1, you need to lower your attack speed.
@@subtractem sorry last question, when you said if youre unable to get the required CDR you can run 2 skill gems. Can you run 2 of the same skill gems or do they need to be different skills?
You could double the skill gems and then go over yeah, this will cut the DPS of the primary gem in more than half though since you lose another support gem (and you already lose 2 because of attack + cast on crit). This is generally not worth it.
how do you maintain the 8 power charges without Power charge on critical?
occultist generates a power charge for every 200 mana spent
I don't understand how tailwind factors into this. Checking and unchecking tailwind in PoB does not affect attack rate. Even when you do it in the video it doesn't change the attack rate.
Is the character sheet inaccurate for crit chance? it look like his character sheet in game has 48% crit chance on cyclone, but I am pretty sure the POB has 100%? I am noob help.
In game is very inaccurate yes because it doesn't account for conditional mods like Assassin's Mark on an enemy.
@@subtractem ah thanks. I've tried making a cast on crit build in the past and I think this video was very helpful
god i love coc
Huh.. If the server only has 33 ms frames (30 fps), I wonder how the client can run 60+ fps. Interpolation?
How come you dont use nightblade, considering youre using a claw?
nightblade will only support the attack skill, most CoC builds focus on the triggered spell as the main source of damage. So it would be a wasted link pretty much.
3:43 whats cat skill?
I struggle to see why you want to do that? Just cast the spell directly?
because you can cast it many times per second this way.
So any tips how solve mana problems with coc?
Minus mana cost on rings, replica conq efficiency jewel, enduring mana flasks, minis mana cost flask suffix
@@subtractem i just annoited leech and its good enough :0
However i modify my bvuild, i can either gat 10.15 attacks or 10.09 atacks with this build... damn
10.09 is totally fine. You just want to be close. You're missing almost nothing.
I got 10.03 triggers per second
Onslaught is not action speed, it's just attack speed. Pretty good video otherwise, maybe a bit handwavy on the tick rates but got the idea across. I still bet Dual Malice is top DPS for Ice Nova though 😁
Thats why Elon Musk does all that cool shit , he did quit poe.
so the bottom line is not only does someone need to get a PHD to learn the game mechanics but we also need to take into account the crappy technical capabilities of the servers? ya, 10/10 game. They need to fix a lot of crap in PoE2
can I have your pob? I want to see ur gears! ty
previous video PoB: pobb.in/VW6xeu5Cdbw5
No gameplay :(
Check previous video
first
second
Why not using cast while chanelling? You don't need crit or even hit 😅😋
Triggers a max of 3 times a second. Coc can do 10 times. Cwc also is a 30% less damage modifier.
the whole cdr/server tick thing is such bullshit... and GGG will never do anything about it
forgive my noobness, so if the server has a higher latency (230ms+), would it matter how accurate you get the numbers?