The infamous goal. Nothing wrong with it. Brown takes it on himself after he intercepts the ball. Terrible commentary from Barry Davies, should have been sacked.
It was a pure fluke victory for Albion. They hadn’t won away for 22 months. Commentator Barry Davis was spot on, that decision has been talked about… for over 50 years now
What about your abject mediocrity since then lol after that we had a great side in the late 70s early 80s Willie Johnston Laurie Cunningham Cyrille Regis Tony bomber brown Bryan Robson Len Cantello John Wile Alistair Robertson, besides you lot were in league one for ages so you can't talk about abjact mediocrity lol what a joker you are.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂@@SteveCaseyBeijing
Made me laugh reading the comments on here. 99% of people commenting obviously never watched a football match in the 70`s. If you was in an offside position, you was offside back then. There was no was he or wasn`t he interfering with play. You could have been out cold in an offside position and you would have been offside. If you`re struggling with how the game was different back then, watch the 1970 FA Cup replay and try and work out how no one was sent off.
I'm having trouble understanding. According to 70s rules, if any player goes into an offside position while his team has the ball, it's an automatic offside and the ref needs to blow the whistle? That's a crazy rule. I imagine it should have been very easy for the defending team to offside trap opposition players and regain possession that way.
pretty sure it was only if you passed any player in an offside position could be called offside. That was not a pass, so even in the 70's you wouldnt be offside.
No, this is bollocks as Brown does not pass the ball at any time to Suggett. Nothing to do with interfering with play. It's never been the case that if a player is stood in an offside position, the whistle goes for offside. It's only ever been offside if the ball is passed forward, interfering or not.
Several First Division refs were asked their opinion of the goal, two respected ones, Jack Taylor (he referereed the 1974 World Cup Final between West Germany and Holland) and F A Cup final refereee Norman Burtenshaw both said Ray Tinkler's decision was correct.
The man in the offside position never touched the ball. Astle who tapped home, ran from an onside position. Nothing wrong with the goal whatsoever. Leeds fans who still go on about this are wankers.
@@iangascoigne8231 under the laws of the game at that time astle was not offside, he did not play the ball to a teammate,so it could not be offside. The referee was correct.
I was born in 1971 and I am an Albion fan to the core but my Dad is a Leeds fan so this game is remembered by all in my family. Fingers crossed West Brom and Leeds can both reach the promised land this season, but I fear that Brentford may have other ideas COYB
Perfectly good goal. The player ran from well inside hid own half. The linesman was wrong to put his flag up and the ref., quite rightly overruled him. The Leeds players should have played on. Hood goal.
Quite right Ulster, yet people have difficulty grasping that. I think the referee may have been about to blow until he realised Brown was running on to his own interception. This could have led to Leeds players stopping but that's their fault as he didn't blow.
i think the argument is whether the interception by the player in his own half was deemed a forward pass or an intention to take the ball forward on his own. As he took it on his self i think the ref was right to over rule the linesman, Later in the move when the goal was scored that too was a correct decision as the scorer came from behind the man who passed the ball across and so clearly onside .
I agree the first one was not off side as the ball was not passed forward. it was played if anything to run on to. if that is off side any players carrying the ball over the halfway line while a striker is beyond the last defender must result in an off side ruling.
I was at the match and Astle did not run past a player when he scored. There was such an uproar about the first offside, which I agree wasn't, that no- one noticed where Astle was, the linesman having stopped to flag near halfway and the ref miles behind! Therefore no goal, Astle offside!
Rubbish, that happened in his own half, the Lino was correct to flag for offside against Suggett the instant the ball crosses the half way line. The ref thought otherwise
@@nickclapham1336 i was there 2. If that was your lot no worries. But because its albion and you lost its a problem. We went to enjoy football and our teams for entertainment and a day out. Back to work Monday morning friend. Good old days. P. S. You lost. 👍🏴💯
15 years after that goal I was in a restaurant in Leeds, with my wife, who is from Leeds but can't stand football. The manager asked me if I supported Villa or Birmingham City. Neither, I said, Baggies are my team, despite me being from Birmingham. We were asked to leave the restaurant. My wife couldn't understand what all the fuss was about!
@@marklucas855 Further to that episode, I was asked, (politely), to remove a Baggies sticker from my car when visiting friends near Elland Road. They still bear a grudge after 50 years.
I'm still married to the same girl. She still doesn't like football and I still can't stand Leeds Utd. It all started when Revie told his players to kick, cheat and intimidate their way to success. COYB.
Childish behaviour by the restaurant manager. Mind you, Leeds always were bad losers. I can't understand why, as they got plenty of practice. They frequently finished as runners up in the League or Cup competitons. When they were in their heyday, they didn't win anywhere near the amount of trophies they should have.
It was a different age when a player did not have to receive the ball to be offside. All that was required was that he should be "interfering with play" which in those days was interpreted as almost anything except lying injured on the ground. That's why the commentator and many of the players were so surprised that the ref waved play on. As Bill Shankly (I think) once said, "if he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?" The rules have changed since then.
The not interfering part was virtually NEVER applied in this era.Offside was offside ,it didn't matter what occured .If a player was stood in an offside position ,the flag went up and a free -kick was awarded.Ray Tinkler decided to go against the convention of the day.He allowed play to continue without the linesman,who would have flagged Astle offside in the Leeds penalty area on the final pass.But he was stood static ,bewildered by Tinkler's disgraceful decision, as everyone else was.
@@mickeasingwood7451 your reply is by far the most accurate. Most people don't understand the changes in the offside interpretation in the last almost 50 years. At that time anyone in an offside position was penalised no matter where the play was. They then split the field into 3 sections near side middle and far side and only players in the section where play was taking place could be penalized. They also had a time where a player in an offside position couldn't be penalized if he was stationary or moving back towards his own half. More recently the player in an offside position had to be in a position close enough to take part in the play. Today you pretty much have to touch the ball to be given offside. Great answer from you though
In 1971, this was a controversial decision. In that situation, off side was normally given as interfering with play was interpreted differently back then. Too many offside decisions were called back then, but Barry Davis was 100% correct with his assessment - for me, I'm glad the goal stood and possibly paved the way for sense to prevail in deciding interference.
Whether people liked the offside trap or not, surely though if the defending side then pushed up and an attacking player was not able to stay onside, then the defenders should not be punished for it.
@@stewartwest347 I am not even sure that the interference argument applied back then, but my general point was if a defence pushes up to catch a forward offside, then he should be deemed offside regardless.
@@seanscanlon9067 The Leeds defense left themselves high and dry as Barry Davies said. It's an interception- and not interfering with play. What do you expect WBA to do? There's no whistle. You have to play to the whistle. Brown and Astle - the most ruthless partnership of the day. It's a goal all day long.
Shameful from Barry Davies, supporting and encouraging the "mad" reaction of fans and players. Brown intercepted for himself, in his own half. No pass.
Another example of BBC commentators who never had a real football background...good decision by ref full stop...no doubt the bollaxes running the VAR machines would have disallowed it in a heartbeat
@@elgonm289 Colin Suggett didnt win the ball . He was stood in an offside position in the leeds half . The question is is he offside . Yes hes offside but is he interfering . I wouldve said absolutely yes . The linesman says yes , the ref says no its that simple .
Its very clear ... back in that day this was offside ... a mistake by the referee which cost Leeds ... its irrelevant where the ball was won, as the offside player was always over the halfway line in the Leeds half.
Absolutely brilliant. Never offside. Well played Albion. Nothing special about Leeds here they messed up play to the referees whistle.loved that era growing up. Proper football no messing around.
You are not well sir. The commentator was adamant it was offside, plus the lineman's flag was raised. As George Best once said..... referees are useless. Get to Specsavers mister.
Clive Bindley maybe, but many said we would be down before the Christmas trees. Six points from your shambles again will help us straight back up though.
The linesman flagged for offside and the referee looked over and stopped as well, which caused the players to stop. He then waved play on but Astle was offside when he received the ball. Terrible from the referee but it's Leeds and it happened all the time.
The old offside rule. A player is offside if there is less than two defending players between he and the goal when tha ball is passed. Brown didn't pass the ball until he was in the penalty area by which time he was the furthest attacking player forward, thus playing all his team mates onside. One of the best referee calls I ever saw because everyone's natural first reaction to this is offisde, forgetting that you can't be offside until Brown passes.
Astle was behind the ball when it was passed to him. But the offside claim is nothing to do with Astle. It's Suggett, the player who was clearly in an offside position when Brown played the ball forward into the Leeds half and chased it. But being in an offside position is not an offence. The ball wasn't passed forward so the ref was right to allow play on.
Yes, technically Brown was maintaining possession after the interception, if he attempted to pass to Suggett then yes, it would be offside, but he didn’t
@@doodles863 The pass was forward but that isn't important. What matters is where Astle was when the ball was passed. If he was behind Astle then he is not offside.
The linesman flagged for offside.ALL the players on BOTH sides stopped playing.The referee had not got a clue who was stood where or who kicked the ball from which point on the pitch.That's why linesmen make the offside calls during games. Tinkler went against the accepted conventions of the era.It's why it was so controversial at the time and is still discussed today,FIFTY YEARS LATER. Play to the whistle? Do you think an ultra "professional" team like Leeds would have left decisions like this ,be overruled on the whim of a dodgy referee?They would NEVER have stopped playing, if it wasn't the norm for the linesman to give ALL the offside calls.
When Brown passed the ball for Astle to score, Astle was behind the ball when it was played to him, therefore not offside. That part of rule has never changed. If you run onto your own pass you or any other player, unless he is interfering with play ( and that is at the ref's discretion) are onside. Problem was Leeds expected pressure on the ref to sway his decision. Fans likewise.
I don't know what the offside rule was back then but Brown carried on after making the interception which indicates the referee probably got it right. I don't know for certain though.
@@jeanlawley6483 surprised you even know what offside was then? 🤔🤫. Look at ware astil is behind the halfway line how many Leeds players are front of him. 🤔? That’s your problem. He ran to score the goal from behind the Leeds players so he’s not offside is he?? 🤔🤫🤫
@@marklucas855 why would i be sour ... I'm a Liverpool fan ... lol ... see epic fail on your part ... i believe in fair play simple as ... it was offside then and its offside now ... oh dear you made a real boo boo ... now that's GREAT FUN
@@jeanlawley6483 delighted to hear it. I will always have a soft spot for The Kings of Europe afdter 3 years at Liverpool University back in, what feels like, c. 1920. :-). Leeds fans tend to sing "All Leeds are we" hence the third person in my reply - but I'm sure you knew that. I too believe in fair play. It was onside then, and is onside now. Have a great day xx
Funnily enough, I watched a documentary about Leeds United on YT, and Eddie Gray was brave enough to admit that he thought then, and still thinks now that it was a good goal, differing from his teammates. I think the problem was probably caused by the linesman putting his flag up prematurely, causing the Leeds players all to stop.
In today's rules you're right, but in 1971 there was no 'interfering with play' clause. If there was only one opposition player between you and the goal, you were offside. Plus wasn't Astle offside when he got the pass as well?
I was a referee in the UK until about 30 years ago. Most referees would have given offside, even me, but I felt it went against the grain a little. The Law states a player in an offside position has to be interfering with play and that part was interpreted liberally. The current interpretation of the law is a lot better, however back then 99/100, offside would have been given.
@ringlord2000 Wrong!! sorry to say mate I too served as a ref for some time and the law has remained quite the same always, a player is not offside unless taking part in the play, the refs call in this case is 100% correct
Not correct! AT THE TIME the offside rule was completely different to today. You should know that. On THAT day he was Offside. I'm no fan of Leeds BTW.
All Barry Davies was guilty of was thinking it was offside. Whether it actually was or not, it's hardly proof of bias, and not something he should have been sacked for, as is being suggested here.
During that era Leeds were hated and used to moan about everything, that was all part of the entertainment. So many Teams and Stars apparently disliked for their "hardness" but dont we miss participants like those these days. As far as the offside goes imo the Ref got it spot on.Would be very interesting to see what would happen nowadays re VAR etc, but of course this now is all part of the fun !!
The Leeds of the 1960s and early 70s wouldn't have lasted very long these days. They'd have been lucky to finish a game with 11 of their players still on the pitch.
No because although the ball is passed forward, Astle was behind Brown when the ball was played. A player cannot be offisde when he is behind the player passing the ball. As some have said here, Tinkler called it spot on and this was a classic case of play to the whistle. Suggett is miles offside but your only offside if a team mate passes the ball and Brown didn't pass.
You’re right on Astle, Brown played the pass forward and judging how he was running with the defender (I think that may have been Madeley) he was behind Brown as well so yep, Astle was onside BUT as for Suggett, remember this is 1971, whether you’re being passed the ball (interfering with play) or not was IRRELEVANT. You are still in an offside position. Yes Brown got the ball in his own half but the instant he crosses the half way line, the linesman has to flag against Suggett If this was today’s rules though, it would be a perfectly good goal
@@dazzla84_ssfc No, you were only offside if, when the ball is played you are offside. The player isn't offside because the ball is not played to him, or by him or any other player who is in an offside position. If he had interfered with play he would have been offside.
@@Phill0old 'Seeking to gain an advantage' is the expression you're looking for, and Suggett most definitely wasn't. In fact, he took no part in what followed. Tinkler applied the laws correctly and the goal was good. It's only magnified anyway because Leeds were in the hunt for the title. They won their last three games after this and lost out by a point. So Leeds fans claim Tinkler cost them the title. Which, as a season is over 42 games, is ridiculous.
He didn't obstruct anybody, while distraction is not caused by merely being in an offside position. Distraction would have been if Suggett had shouted or made clear gesture to ask for a pass.
This is so painful to watch as a Leeds fan..... particularly because there is nothing wrong with the goal...I watched it again and hoped the scoring pass was offside... but looks like he ran from behind.... gutted as this was a turning point in the season
As a lad I attended many league games both before and after 1971, and I can confirm that it was common practice for referees, when officiating situations like that shown, to judge them as ‘offside’. What’s more, it was also extremely uncommon for a referee to ‘over-rule’ a lineman in that way, especially over a seemingly ‘clear-cut’ decision. So it was no surprise that both teams stopped when the linesman’s flag was raised, as their expectation would have been for the referee to blow his whistle for a free-kick to Leeds and so ‘end-of’! The other point here is that this was an absolutely massive match for the referee to make such an untypical and controversial call. This was no Sunday ‘kick-around’ in a park. The defeat effectively ruined Leeds’ chance of winning the title that year, which was instead narrowly won by Arsenal in what was for them a ‘double’ winning year.
This was at the time one the most controversial goals of all! Tony Brown intercepted the pass and ran forward, Colin Sugget was forward of Tony Brown, but crucially not interfering with play! Then when Tony Brown thought he was offside he almost stopped running, but the referee Ray Tinkler to his credit waved play on, Jeff Astle ran from behind the last Leeds defender and tucked the ball home, so no way he could have been offside! But to this day, and do not forget this was 1971, the Leeds supporters from generation to generation have continually argued over that incident!
According to the referee Ray Tinkler as quoted in the Guardian “ Now it’s true that one of the West Bromwich players, Colin Suggett, had been standing in an offside position when Tony Brown intercepted a pass and raced clear of the Leeds defence . My linesman raised his flag straight away but I waved him down down-the ball never went anywhere near Sugget. He saw my signal, but the problem was he didn’t move. He should have lowered his flag and tried to keep up with play. Because he didn’t move, several Leeds players wrongly assumed that play had stopped.
Interesting, I remember watching years ago, I thought the interception was ok (still not certain), but the final pass was off. Camera angle I guess is`nt conclusive now that I look at it. The thing is you can go on technicalities but the linesman raised his flag, and from what I know 99.99% of the time that would have been given offside, so I don`t think you can blame a team for stopping play. Ultimately it should have been given off on the basis I think it was inevitably likely to catch a team out. Thats my view anyways, the referee may have been ahead of his time maybe, but it clearly didnt work as the linesman kept his flag up and nobody knew what was going on.
Good explanation, the linesman got the offside wrong, he should have put his flag done when Suggett made no attempt to chase the ball. The ref got it right, he has the final say on the matter, so it's a goal. It shows how little most people knew about the rules in 1971, let alone today. Shame on you Barry Davies.
But being in an offside position is not an offence. The ball wasn't passed forward so the ref was right to allow play on. The problem was caused by the linesman putting his flag up prematurely, causing the Leeds players all to stop. The absolute clincher is that the ball wasn't passed forward but carried forward by Brown. Classic way to beat the offside trap.
The interception actually took place inside West Brom’s own half, and surely it must mean that it’s not a pass but Brown is actually maintaining possession, you cannot be offside surely as the result of a play in your own half In today’s rules, it would be a perfectly legal goal as one, Brown does not pass to Colin Suggett and two, Suggett is technically not interfering with play
@@paulneedham9885 You can't know that Jeff Astle was offside because he's out of the camera view at the time of the pass so you're making shit up. If he's behind the ball when passed he's not offside, and seeing as he's off camera, only the linesman can see that.
No mate, sorry you're wrong. Brown took the ball on himself, didn't pass it to any other player, Suggett was offside and would have been called so if Brown had passed it forward. No infringement of the offside law occurred. The problem arose because the linesman, wrongly, thought Brown had passed to another player.
Perfectly correct decision under 1971 Rules because Brown didn't pass the ball and Suggett didn't interfere with play, so all Barry's hysterics were misplaced. Whether Astle was offside is another question, of course the Leeds players etc weren't appealing because of Astle. (The TV film doesn't help with this issue.) BTW I could never understand why Tony passed to Jeff at all, Jeff was very nearly tackled and Sprake didn't seem well positioned at all to stop a low shot to his left.
I was an avid Leeds fan in those days and was livid because there appeared to be two offsides - but I can see now that the interception was fair (and in his own half) and the WBA player carried the ball forward so he was not offside. The final pass to Astle is inconclusive but it looks like he runs on to it from an onside position. Leeds should have played to the whistle. That said we were often done out of cups by poor refs (Paris EC final v Bayern, FA replay at Old Trafford v dirty Chelsea eg
Watch the video and see why ,then.Chelsea would have had 3 straight red cards in the first 15 minutes .11 v 8 ,even Leeds couldn't throw that away.No need for any retaliations if the referee had done his job.
One thing that is missed here which younger fans would not appreciate. The offside rule was interpreted much differently in those days. It was much stricter. The albion lad was offside when Brown played it forward and i'm certain different officials of the day would have disallowed the goal. I'm not a Leeds either.
*ASTLE IS KING* now and forever. It's a real shame, that Leeds side were fantastic, but all they're remembered for is Bly Bremner's elbows, Norman Hunters knee high tackles and there cynical dirty fouls. Eddie Gray and Terry Cooper were two of my favourite players at the time
Given the rules of the time in regard to offside ,it was offside. As many used to say if your not interfering with play what the hell are you on the pitch for. Others on here either hated Leeds or are looking at it from the the overly complex offside rule of today. Others are of the view that Suggett was not offside because Brown only intercepted the ball, and then kept possession. However Suggett was active and ready to participate. The ball travelled quite a long way towards Suggett. Anyone with any ounce of cultural awareness will realise and fully understand that Suggett was definitely offside. The offside rule then was totally totally different, it was not up to interpretation. Any referee on here suggesting otherwise , has his mind confused by what came later. They are putting interpretations on time honoured matters and they have no right to do so.
I am a Leeds fan though agree if that happened now it would definitely stand. May have been offside in those days I guess but we can't complain too much.
I hope it is Leeds v Albion in the playoff final at the end of the month and the Baggies go up with a last minute of extra time winner in similar style to this 🤣🤣🤣🙏
2022 laws: clearly no offence. 1971 laws: "if a player is seeking to gain an advantage by being in an offside position". That's a strange phrase, but Colin Suggett clearly started trying to get down the field, so he did seem be taking advantage of his location. I am old, and I remember far too many goals being disallowed for this technicality. The current laws are a big improvement. A couple of things that were in newspaper reports, but are offscreen here: the linesman had stopped, with his flag up- he wasn't trying to keep up with play. And the Leeds players also saw the referee lifting his whistle to his mouth...but no sound came. They were wrong to stop, but you can see their point.
Some people seem confused as to whether this was off-side back then. Actually it was not offside then and it is not offside now. Back then interfering with play was not the issue, but the interception was not a pass, the player kept possession and brought the ball forward. He did not 'play' the ball. Every one of your team mates could be in an off side position but if you do not play the ball forward (ie pass it or hoof it, or in some other way get rid of it) but instead keep possession and dribble it forward, then your team mates may be in off-side positions but it is not off-side. The player up front may have been in an off-side position but he is not off-side until the ball is 'played' forward, that is to say passed, not necessarily to him but to anyone. However the ball was not passed, but taken forward by the guy who intercepted. The linesman was actually right to raise his flag because it is not his call whether the pall is passed forward or taken forward. It is the referees decision. The linesman's decision is exclusively whether or not the striker was in an off-side position, which he was, but it is not off-side because the ball was taken forward and not passed forward. Which is the referee's decision. Exactly what happened. Today the linesman should still raise the flag for the player being in an off-side position and its the referee's job to decide whether or not the ball was passed or the player in the off-side position was interfering with play. So both officials did exactly the right thing. The Leeds players should have played to the whistle, and the commentator clearly didn't know the rules.
The linesman flagged for offside.ALL the players on BOTH sides stopped playing.This was how offside decisions were made at the time.Tinkler went against the accepted conventions of the time.It's why it was so controversial at the time and why it's still talked about 50 Years later. Astle was offside on the last pass as well.But Tinkler was 30 yards behind play and the linesman was still stood bewildered, holding his flag up from the original offside. The decision taken, in the context of how the offside calls were made in 1971 was absolutely outrageous.
@@mickeasingwood7451 I'm really sorry but that's not correct. "Play to the whistle" was (and still is) the mantra. No player ever, EVER, takes his lead from a linesman (assistant referee) - if that were the case then there would be more than one person in charge. That has never happened. The referee is and always was in charge. No player should ever play to the flag. For example, it is not and never was the linesman's call to judge whether someone is interfering with play. It is his job to raise the flag if someone is in an off-side position when the ball is played and it is the job of the referee to make the call about interference, which he will do with the use (or not) of his whistle. This is why it is and was always the rule that players should play to the whistle. It makes no difference if both sides made the same mistake and stopped playing before the whistle was blown. That is what the whistle is for, to start and stop play. Play never begins without a whistle. And play never stops without a whistle. If the ball is in play and the whistle does not stop it, then the ball continues to be in play even if all the players go off for a shit. The referee must be in charge and have the final judgement, he must have the opportunity to overrule the linesman and so the players must play to the whistle not the flag. It is the case now and it has always been the case.
I can play that again and again and again, always get a thrill shiver! Who do I support? Northampton Town and whoever Manchester United are playing, except Leeds.
@@deletebilderberg No you're wrong, the player to his left was not interfering with play. He had no effect on the leeds players, at the moment the ball was played.
There was no offside. No pass was made it was an interception and when the pass was ultimately made to Astle he is behind the ball. Officials were correct. What was Barry Davies on about?
As others have said, the offside rule was different then. A West Brom player is standing in an offside position when the ball gets played forward, simple as that. Now there would be no problem.
No it wouldn't,Astle was offside on the final pass.If they had VAR in those days,the goal Leeds had disallowed prior to this incident may well have stood as well.
Looked onside even by old rules. Brown was the next player to touch the ball after his own interception. Also, we can't see Suggett's position relative to the Leeds defence at the time of the interception.
To paraphrase Jack Hawkins in The League of Gentlemen (1960) ... "We football authorities will always give the Germans, the Russians, the Japanese, or even the Egyptians the benefit of the doubt, but NEVER Leeds."
Nothing wrong with the goal at all. In fact it's even more onside that we can witness on tv simply because it is against the most hated club in England.
Maybe the most hated at that time, because they were from an unfashionable region and successful at a time when all teams had tough/dirty players. I would think that Manchester United are probably the most hated now for many reasons. Over twenty years of success and a siege mentality when Ferguson was manager.
Leeds always had it in their own minds that they were a great side. They didn't win enough to be able to say that. Just 5 titles in the Revie period and runners-up on many occasions. Too many occasions and their cockiness did them no favours.
Yes, the rules have changed 3 times since then. They first changed in 1990. Prior to 1990, if a player was in an offside position regardless of whether he was interfering with play it was given as offside and a free kick would be given.
The same rule that said there was no offside was the same one that said bremner was in Paris in 1975. Both goals should have been given but who cares. Swings and roundabouts. Crap pass started it all off
The not interfering with play rule of today is too disputable, and can be judged differently by different refs/linesmen or anyone else. We need to re-instate the old rule of 2 defending players(1 can be the goal keeper) between the goal line and the attacking team from when the ball is kicked. However, in this instance the ball was intercepted from a Leeds player, it was not a deliberately kicked forward from the WBA player, who then ran forward with the ball past the offside Suggett, so in my view not offside at the point where Leeds appealed for offside.
You were offside if you were in an offside position.Even if you were on the other side of the pitch.The rules changed because players were on the floor and still considered to be offside.
KEY WORDS: The rule was way different then and quite compilcated. AS BEST I understand it, in the 1970s being in an offside position (regardless of whether the ball was passed to you) was actually considered offside once the ball was in the opponents side.
the linesman made the mistake and Barry Davies was out of order supporting Leeds when it was obvious there was no offside - didn't he know the rules of football??
It's offside from the first interception. Suggett is offside and immediately turns to support the attack. You see it in the replay. Under the old rules that's offside as he's clearly gaining an advantage.
@@Lord_Hillcrest I've found it now. When Leeds lost at Stoke, after being 2-0 ahead, it was after they had lost 0-1 at home to Bristol City in the cup. A few weeks later they lost three games on the bounce, Liverpool away, Burnley at home, West Ham away, but they were still crowned champions after everyone thought they were going to throw it away. With the Albion game, following that one they won their last three games. I got there in the end, sorry for the confusion.
If you push the ball forward and run into it you can’t be offside (even then) For me the issue is when he passed it to Astel (offside or not), it should have been flagged at that point because it became a new pattern of play I think the only way a goal should have stood is if the player who intercepted it (and pushed it forward) had finished it (naturally with no other WBA touching the ball)
No whistle. Play to the whistle. The problem with this is the Leeds players were standing around and not trying to get back- like an expectation of the referee would let them off- arrogant. And that's where you see Don Revie and the knuckle draggers invading the pitch. No it's a sport. The off-side rule to is prevent goal hanging, not to allow bullying. They chose the most ruthless partnership in the Premier League at the time to take their chances with- WBA's Astle and Brown. To their folly.
... even the commentator does not understand the outside rule. The player in the offside position is only 'offside' if the ball is passed forward to him ... which it wasn't and it was against Dirty Don's Dirty Leeds so happy days 😂
As a lifelong Albion fan whenever I am feeling down and needing cheering up I watch this wonderfully uplifting video
As a leeds fan I understand your euphoria given your abject mediocrity since then.
That'll be everyday then.
As you are an Albion fan i reckon you are watching it every Saturday come 5pm.
It was a pure fluke victory for Albion. They hadn’t won away for 22 months. Commentator Barry Davis was spot on, that decision has been talked about… for over 50 years now
What about your abject mediocrity since then lol after that we had a great side in the late 70s early 80s Willie Johnston Laurie Cunningham Cyrille Regis Tony bomber brown Bryan Robson Len Cantello John Wile Alistair Robertson, besides you lot were in league one for ages so you can't talk about abjact mediocrity lol what a joker you are.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂@@SteveCaseyBeijing
I literally could watch that over and over again. A joyous, joyous incident that gets better and better on each viewing.
It was against Leeds, after all !!
Yes I prefer the Mighty Leeds United winning the ' Centenary Cup Final ' 1972.
You obviously enjoy watching football won by corruption then 💩💩
Made me laugh reading the comments on here. 99% of people commenting obviously never watched a football match in the 70`s. If you was in an offside position, you was offside back then. There was no was he or wasn`t he interfering with play. You could have been out cold in an offside position and you would have been offside. If you`re struggling with how the game was different back then, watch the 1970 FA Cup replay and try and work out how no one was sent off.
I'm having trouble understanding. According to 70s rules, if any player goes into an offside position while his team has the ball, it's an automatic offside and the ref needs to blow the whistle?
That's a crazy rule. I imagine it should have been very easy for the defending team to offside trap opposition players and regain possession that way.
pretty sure it was only if you passed any player in an offside position could be called offside. That was not a pass, so even in the 70's you wouldnt be offside.
interfering with play is irrelevant. In this instance the trigger for an offside offence is the phrase "When the ball is played..."
No, this is bollocks as Brown does not pass the ball at any time to Suggett. Nothing to do with interfering with play. It's never been the case that if a player is stood in an offside position, the whistle goes for offside. It's only ever been offside if the ball is passed forward, interfering or not.
Several First Division refs were asked their opinion of the goal, two respected ones, Jack Taylor (he referereed the 1974 World Cup Final between West Germany and Holland) and F A Cup final refereee Norman Burtenshaw both said Ray Tinkler's decision was correct.
The man in the offside position never touched the ball. Astle who tapped home, ran from an onside position. Nothing wrong with the goal whatsoever. Leeds fans who still go on about this are wankers.
Under the laws at the time he was offside.
@@iangascoigne8231 oh ffs
@@wbabojo2779 Oh ffs, it’s true. All the expletives won’t alter that fact.
@@iangascoigne8231 under the laws of the game at that time astle was not offside, he did not play the ball to a teammate,so it could not be offside. The referee was correct.
@@neilpickles8211 Whatever.
I was born in 1971 and I am an Albion fan to the core but my Dad is a Leeds fan so this game is remembered by all in my family.
Fingers crossed West Brom and Leeds can both reach the promised land this season, but I fear that Brentford may have other ideas COYB
2 great football clubs albion and leeds
Both went up
@@shazmeertv44 Yes but sadly one came back down
@@robertanderson6776 Indeed they are m8, especially in my household.
Perfectly good goal. The player ran from well inside hid own half. The linesman was wrong to put his flag up and the ref., quite rightly overruled him. The Leeds players should have played on.
Hood goal.
Quite right Ulster, yet people have difficulty grasping that. I think the referee may have been about to blow until he realised Brown was running on to his own interception. This could have led to Leeds players stopping but that's their fault as he didn't blow.
i think the argument is whether the interception by the player in his own half was deemed a forward pass or an intention to take the ball forward on his own. As he took it on his self i think the ref was right to over rule the linesman, Later in the move when the goal was scored that too was a correct decision as the scorer came from behind the man who passed the ball across and so clearly onside .
frankythefox rubbish
I agree
the first one was not off side as the ball was not passed forward. it was played if anything to run on to.
if that is off side any players carrying the ball over the halfway line while a striker is beyond the last defender must result in an off side ruling.
I was at the match and Astle did not run past a player when he scored. There was such an uproar about the first offside, which I agree wasn't, that no- one noticed where Astle was, the linesman having stopped to flag near halfway and the ref miles behind! Therefore no goal, Astle offside!
Rubbish, that happened in his own half, the Lino was correct to flag for offside against Suggett the instant the ball crosses the half way line.
The ref thought otherwise
@@nickclapham1336 i was there 2. If that was your lot no worries. But because its albion and you lost its a problem. We went to enjoy football and our teams for entertainment and a day out. Back to work Monday morning friend. Good old days. P. S. You lost. 👍🏴💯
15 years after that goal I was in a restaurant in Leeds, with my wife, who is from Leeds but can't stand football. The manager asked me if I supported Villa or Birmingham City. Neither, I said, Baggies are my team, despite me being from Birmingham. We were asked to leave the restaurant. My wife couldn't understand what all the fuss was about!
Did you manage to get a sip of the Sour Grape wine before you left???
@@marklucas855 Further to that episode, I was asked, (politely), to remove a Baggies sticker from my car when visiting friends near Elland Road. They still bear a grudge after 50 years.
@@marklucas855 nice one Mark, nice one!
I'm still married to the same girl. She still doesn't like football and I still can't stand Leeds Utd. It all started when Revie told his players to kick, cheat and intimidate their way to success. COYB.
Childish behaviour by the restaurant manager. Mind you, Leeds always were bad losers. I can't understand why, as they got plenty of practice. They frequently finished as runners up in the League or Cup competitons. When they were in their heyday, they didn't win anywhere near the amount of trophies they should have.
It was a different age when a player did not have to receive the ball to be offside. All that was required was that he should be "interfering with play" which in those days was interpreted as almost anything except lying injured on the ground. That's why the commentator and many of the players were so surprised that the ref waved play on. As Bill Shankly (I think) once said, "if he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?" The rules have changed since then.
The not interfering part was virtually NEVER applied in this era.Offside was offside ,it didn't matter what occured .If a player was stood in an offside position ,the flag went up and a free -kick was awarded.Ray Tinkler decided to go against the convention of the day.He allowed play to continue without the linesman,who would have flagged Astle offside in the Leeds penalty area on the final pass.But he was stood static ,bewildered by Tinkler's disgraceful decision, as everyone else was.
@@mickeasingwood7451 your reply is by far the most accurate. Most people don't understand the changes in the offside interpretation in the last almost 50 years. At that time anyone in an offside position was penalised no matter where the play was. They then split the field into 3 sections near side middle and far side and only players in the section where play was taking place could be penalized. They also had a time where a player in an offside position couldn't be penalized if he was stationary or moving back towards his own half. More recently the player in an offside position had to be in a position close enough to take part in the play. Today you pretty much have to touch the ball to be given offside. Great answer from you though
Shankly's daft comment doesn't allow for context though c*nt.
In this clip, Brown rant onto his own interception which might have made a difference.
I think it was Brian Clough who said that, but yes it’s common sense - how can a player not be “interfering with play”? It’s a ridiculous rule
In 1971, this was a controversial decision. In that situation, off side was normally given as interfering with play was interpreted differently back then. Too many offside decisions were called back then, but Barry Davis was 100% correct with his assessment - for me, I'm glad the goal stood and possibly paved the way for sense to prevail in deciding interference.
Yes. Now it wouldn’t be offside at all surely?
Whether people liked the offside trap or not, surely though if the defending side then pushed up and an attacking player was not able to stay onside, then the defenders should not be punished for it.
@@seanscanlon9067 Not interfering with play hence no whistle. Referee correct. Astle and Brown professional. Goal stands. Leeds Plonkers.
@@stewartwest347 I am not even sure that the interference argument applied back then, but my general point was if a defence pushes up to catch a forward offside, then he should be deemed offside regardless.
@@seanscanlon9067 The Leeds defense left themselves high and dry as Barry Davies said. It's an interception- and not interfering with play. What do you expect WBA to do? There's no whistle. You have to play to the whistle. Brown and Astle - the most ruthless partnership of the day. It's a goal all day long.
Shameful from Barry Davies, supporting and encouraging the "mad" reaction of fans and players. Brown intercepted for himself, in his own half. No pass.
Probably because he didn't want Arsenal to win the League...it was not offside the Colin Suggett won the ball in his half
One of the worst commentators ever... knew nothing about football and frequently opened his mouth before his brain was engaged.
Another example of BBC commentators who never had a real football background...good decision by ref full stop...no doubt the bollaxes running the VAR machines would have disallowed it in a heartbeat
@@elgonm289 Colin Suggett didnt win the ball . He was stood in an offside position in the leeds half . The question is is he offside . Yes hes offside but is he interfering . I wouldve said absolutely yes . The linesman says yes , the ref says no its that simple .
Its very clear ... back in that day this was offside ... a mistake by the referee which cost Leeds ... its irrelevant where the ball was won, as the offside player was always over the halfway line in the Leeds half.
Absolutely brilliant. Never offside. Well played Albion. Nothing special about Leeds here they messed up play to the referees whistle.loved that era growing up. Proper football no messing around.
He was 15 yards off pal
Bet you wasn’t even born then fella. Albion won. What’s the big deal anyway?
@@section5760 who finished higher in the league that season lad and who's a bigger club
You are not well sir. The commentator was adamant it was offside, plus the lineman's flag was raised. As George Best once said..... referees are useless. Get to Specsavers mister.
The St John's Ambulance guy laughing his head off after the goal was the highlight of a very good goal scored here.
If anything it showed up the arrogance of Leeds players and Revie. They thought the refs should always be on their side.
As a Huddersfield fan, I thought it was hilarious.
But after watching it again, the referee got it spot on.
I see your lot are plummeting back into the championship.
What a shame...NOT.
Clive Bindley maybe, but many said we would be down before the Christmas trees.
Six points from your shambles again will help us straight back up though.
Newsflash, you can't go actually down before May.
My shambles?
Who on earth can you mean?
As a Non Udders dog botherer I think its hilarious that relegation is certain.
The linesman flagged
for offside and the referee looked over and stopped as well, which caused the players to stop. He then waved play on but Astle was offside when he received the ball. Terrible from the referee but it's Leeds and it happened all the time.
The old offside rule. A player is offside if there is less than two defending players between he and the goal when tha ball is passed. Brown didn't pass the ball until he was in the penalty area by which time he was the furthest attacking player forward, thus playing all his team mates onside. One of the best referee calls I ever saw because everyone's natural first reaction to this is offisde, forgetting that you can't be offside until Brown passes.
His interception with the ball going forward over the half way line is deemed a forward pass in the day, he did not retain control on the interception
Astle was behind the ball when it was passed to him. But the offside claim is nothing to do with Astle. It's Suggett, the player who was clearly in an offside position when Brown played the ball forward into the Leeds half and chased it.
But being in an offside position is not an offence. The ball wasn't passed forward so the ref was right to allow play on.
Yes, technically Brown was maintaining possession after the interception, if he attempted to pass to Suggett then yes, it would be offside, but he didn’t
But the pass to Astle was forward and he is offside, if you think it wasn’t passed forward l suggest you take another look
@@doodles863 The pass was forward but that isn't important. What matters is where Astle was when the ball was passed. If he was behind Astle then he is not offside.
Even though the fat heads at the top of the law changers have changed offside 3 times since I have been reffing, I see no offside here in this play.
Pass to Jeff Astle looks offside but hard to say for sure.
the rules at that moment says that it was off side.... crystal clear
Try using the rules back then, as opposed to looking at it with an agenda ;)
You dont know the rules then
The linesman flagged for offside.ALL the players on BOTH sides stopped playing.The referee had not got a clue who was stood where or who kicked the ball from which point on the pitch.That's why linesmen make the offside calls during games.
Tinkler went against the accepted conventions of the era.It's why it was so controversial at the time and is still discussed today,FIFTY YEARS LATER.
Play to the whistle? Do you think an ultra "professional" team like Leeds would have left decisions like this ,be overruled on the whim of a dodgy referee?They would NEVER have stopped playing, if it wasn't the norm for the linesman to give ALL the offside calls.
This should have been goal of the season. Everyone hated Leeds then. Especially God.
I think she probably still does.
Tony Brown ran onto his own pass there Astle was not offside.
When Brown passed the ball for Astle to score, Astle was behind the ball when it was played to him, therefore not offside. That part of rule has never changed. If you run onto your own pass you or any other player, unless he is interfering with play ( and that is at the ref's discretion) are onside. Problem was Leeds expected pressure on the ref to sway his decision. Fans likewise.
🤣🤣
@@pauljohnson5190 Not sure whether you are agreeing with me or laughing at a legitimate goal against Leeds.
I don't know what the offside rule was back then but Brown carried on after making the interception which indicates the referee probably got it right. I don't know for certain though.
There was never offside in the play, the ref knew the rules which is more than can be said for the commentator. 😂
Looks like the Ref and you don't know the rules of the day ... lol
@@jeanlawley6483 surprised you even know what offside was then? 🤔🤫. Look at ware astil is behind the halfway line how many Leeds players are front of him. 🤔? That’s your problem. He ran to score the goal from behind the Leeds players so he’s not offside is he?? 🤔🤫🤫
Think in those days if a player was standing in an offside position it’s given by the officials as offside. Nowadays it’s play on.
Four words, Leeds; "Play to the whistle."
Four words ... The linesman was shit
@@jeanlawley6483 I like it. Maybe another four...."All sour are we?" Great fun.
@@marklucas855 why would i be sour ... I'm a Liverpool fan ... lol ... see epic fail on your part ... i believe in fair play simple as ... it was offside then and its offside now ... oh dear you made a real boo boo ... now that's GREAT FUN
@@jeanlawley6483 delighted to hear it. I will always have a soft spot for The Kings of Europe afdter 3 years at Liverpool University back in, what feels like, c. 1920. :-). Leeds fans tend to sing "All Leeds are we" hence the third person in my reply - but I'm sure you knew that. I too believe in fair play. It was onside then, and is onside now. Have a great day xx
@@marklucas855 wrong. go learn the rules
Funnily enough, I watched a documentary about Leeds United on YT, and Eddie Gray was brave enough to admit that he thought then, and still thinks now that it was a good goal, differing from his teammates. I think the problem was probably caused by the linesman putting his flag up prematurely, causing the Leeds players all to stop.
Disgusting
Yo
Sugget was not interfering with play. Good goal. Even VAR should be able to get that one
Suggett*
No goal
In today's rules you're right, but in 1971 there was no 'interfering with play' clause. If there was only one opposition player between you and the goal, you were offside. Plus wasn't Astle offside when he got the pass as well?
Play to the whistle!
VAR would send Astle off
Perfectly valid goal, whether to today's rules or the interpretation back then.
wrong
@@paulneedham9885 Explain your reasoning or STFU! :-)
I was a referee in the UK until about 30 years ago. Most referees would have given offside, even me, but I felt it went against the grain a little. The Law states a player in an offside position has to be interfering with play and that part was interpreted liberally. The current interpretation of the law is a lot better, however back then 99/100, offside would have been given.
Bomber brown still doing radio ,true baggie
The Greatest, well along with Regis for me.
Tony was from Oldham and a great player, along with Jeff Astle
@ringlord2000 Wrong!! sorry to say mate I too served as a ref for some time and the law has remained quite the same always, a player is not offside unless taking part in the play, the refs call in this case is 100% correct
Not correct! AT THE TIME the offside rule was completely different to today. You should know that. On THAT day he was Offside. I'm no fan of Leeds BTW.
@@LoftusRoadLad you are talking out of your hat, the rules are identical today but for minor changes, and in this instance the ref is 100% correct.
All Barry Davies was guilty of was thinking it was offside. Whether it actually was or not, it's hardly proof of bias, and not something he should have been sacked for, as is being suggested here.
During that era Leeds were hated and used to moan about everything, that was all part of the entertainment.
So many Teams and Stars apparently disliked for their "hardness" but dont we miss participants like those these days.
As far as the offside goes imo the Ref got it spot on.Would be very interesting to see what would happen nowadays re VAR etc, but of course this now is all part of the fun !!
What do you mean 'that era' they are still hated.
The Leeds of the 1960s and early 70s wouldn't have lasted very long these days. They'd have been lucky to finish a game with 11 of their players still on the pitch.
No because although the ball is passed forward, Astle was behind Brown when the ball was played. A player cannot be offisde when he is behind the player passing the ball. As some have said here, Tinkler called it spot on and this was a classic case of play to the whistle. Suggett is miles offside but your only offside if a team mate passes the ball and Brown didn't pass.
You’re right on Astle, Brown played the pass forward and judging how he was running with the defender (I think that may have been Madeley) he was behind Brown as well so yep, Astle was onside
BUT as for Suggett, remember this is 1971, whether you’re being passed the ball (interfering with play) or not was IRRELEVANT. You are still in an offside position. Yes Brown got the ball in his own half but the instant he crosses the half way line, the linesman has to flag against Suggett
If this was today’s rules though, it would be a perfectly good goal
@@dazzla84_ssfc No, you were only offside if, when the ball is played you are offside. The player isn't offside because the ball is not played to him, or by him or any other player who is in an offside position. If he had interfered with play he would have been offside.
@@Phill0old 'Seeking to gain an advantage' is the expression you're looking for, and Suggett most definitely wasn't. In fact, he took no part in what followed. Tinkler applied the laws correctly and the goal was good. It's only magnified anyway because Leeds were in the hunt for the title. They won their last three games after this and lost out by a point. So Leeds fans claim Tinkler cost them the title. Which, as a season is over 42 games, is ridiculous.
Eh mate, you forgot obstruction/distraction as a common interference from an offside position, pass or no pass.
He didn't obstruct anybody, while distraction is not caused by merely being in an offside position. Distraction would have been if Suggett had shouted or made clear gesture to ask for a pass.
This is so painful to watch as a Leeds fan..... particularly because there is nothing wrong with the goal...I watched it again and hoped the scoring pass was offside... but looks like he ran from behind.... gutted as this was a turning point in the season
yeah it was onside. Referee was correct. I feel sorry for you mate. Leeds should have played to the whistle.
was offside , back then u didnt have to interfere to be offside as long as ur in offside position ur offside@@stewartwest347
As a lad I attended many league games both before and after 1971, and I can confirm that it was common practice for referees, when officiating situations like that shown, to judge them as ‘offside’.
What’s more, it was also extremely uncommon for a referee to ‘over-rule’ a lineman in that way, especially over a seemingly ‘clear-cut’ decision.
So it was no surprise that both teams stopped when the linesman’s flag was raised, as their expectation would have been for the referee to blow his whistle for a free-kick to Leeds and so ‘end-of’!
The other point here is that this was an absolutely massive match for the referee to make such an untypical and controversial call. This was no Sunday ‘kick-around’ in a park. The defeat effectively ruined Leeds’ chance of winning the title that year, which was instead narrowly won by Arsenal in what was for them a ‘double’ winning year.
It was such a clear error by the linesman that I am surprised the players even looked at him!
@@MMM18092pretty sure Tinkler never refereed another game for Leeds before he retired in 1976
How ironic that the greatest cheats in the history of the game were on the receiving end here.
Spot on
Even if they hadn't stopped they were getting nowhere near the attacker.
Best part of that was Norman Hunters initial square pass.
Definitely going down the leg side and missing the stumps, so stick with the on field umpire's call.
Not interfering with play , so guy with ball carried on , legit goal !
Yea but the non interfering offside rule wasn't implemented until about 10 years ago.
This was at the time one the most controversial goals of all! Tony Brown intercepted the pass and ran forward, Colin Sugget was forward of Tony Brown, but crucially not interfering with play! Then when Tony Brown thought he was offside he almost stopped running, but the referee Ray Tinkler to his credit waved play on, Jeff Astle ran from behind the last Leeds defender and tucked the ball home, so no way he could have been offside! But to this day, and do not forget this was 1971, the Leeds supporters from generation to generation have continually argued over that incident!
Learn the rules of the day fool
Too many morons applying today’s offside rule, it’s irrelevant as to whether he was interfering with play
According to the referee Ray Tinkler as quoted in the Guardian “ Now it’s true that one of the West Bromwich players, Colin Suggett, had been standing in an offside position when Tony Brown intercepted a pass and raced clear of the Leeds defence . My linesman raised his flag straight away but I waved him down down-the ball never went anywhere near Sugget. He saw my signal, but the problem was he didn’t move. He should have lowered his flag and tried to keep up with play. Because he didn’t move, several Leeds players wrongly assumed that play had stopped.
Sums it up perfectly - of course neither Brown nor Astle were offside - only question is whether Suggett interfered with play. He did not.
@@andystoker6961 When Brown passed to Astle however , he looked level , the ball was passed forward too , that in itself was offside .
It doesn't matter- you play to the whistle as Brown and Astle did. The TV camera angle is inconclusive for the Brown pass to Astle.
Interesting, I remember watching years ago, I thought the interception was ok (still not certain), but the final pass was off. Camera angle I guess is`nt conclusive now that I look at it. The thing is you can go on technicalities but the linesman raised his flag, and from what I know 99.99% of the time that would have been given offside, so I don`t think you can blame a team for stopping play. Ultimately it should have been given off on the basis I think it was inevitably likely to catch a team out. Thats my view anyways, the referee may have been ahead of his time maybe, but it clearly didnt work as the linesman kept his flag up and nobody knew what was going on.
Good explanation, the linesman got the offside wrong, he should have put his flag done when Suggett made no attempt to chase the ball. The ref got it right, he has the final say on the matter, so it's a goal. It shows how little most people knew about the rules in 1971, let alone today. Shame on you Barry Davies.
Back then it was offside
Today after a 20min VAR check probably handball from an incident 5mins earlier
Not offside then or any other time.
But being in an offside position is not an offence. The ball wasn't passed forward so the ref was right to allow play on. The problem was caused by the linesman putting his flag up prematurely, causing the Leeds players all to stop. The absolute clincher is that the ball wasn't passed forward but carried forward by Brown. Classic way to beat the offside trap.
The interception actually took place inside West Brom’s own half, and surely it must mean that it’s not a pass but Brown is actually maintaining possession, you cannot be offside surely as the result of a play in your own half
In today’s rules, it would be a perfectly legal goal as one, Brown does not pass to Colin Suggett and two, Suggett is technically not interfering with play
@@dazzla84_ssfc but its not todays rules, it it
@@paulneedham9885 The rules back then were the same - if you kicked it forward and ran onto it yourself, no offside.
@@teddyirons8240 yes, but Jeff Astle was in an offside position. He scored the goal
@@paulneedham9885 You can't know that Jeff Astle was offside because he's out of the camera view at the time of the pass so you're making shit up. If he's behind the ball when passed he's not offside, and seeing as he's off camera, only the linesman can see that.
No mate, sorry you're wrong. Brown took the ball on himself, didn't pass it to any other player, Suggett was offside and would have been called so if Brown had passed it forward. No infringement of the offside law occurred. The problem arose because the linesman, wrongly, thought Brown had passed to another player.
Perfectly correct decision under 1971 Rules because Brown didn't pass the ball and Suggett didn't interfere with play, so all Barry's hysterics were misplaced.
Whether Astle was offside is another question, of course the Leeds players etc weren't appealing because of Astle. (The TV film doesn't help with this issue.)
BTW I could never understand why Tony passed to Jeff at all, Jeff was very nearly tackled and Sprake didn't seem well positioned at all to stop a low shot to his left.
Nah wrong interpretation
CLEARLY ONSIDE
Leeds are all upset? Works for me....somebody must be doing something right!
Forget the shenanigans at the half way line, isn't Astle offside when that forward pass is played to him in the box??
I was an avid Leeds fan in those days and was livid because there appeared to be two offsides - but I can see now that the interception was fair (and in his own half) and the WBA player carried the ball forward so he was not offside. The final pass to Astle is inconclusive but it looks like he runs on to it from an onside position. Leeds should have played to the whistle. That said we were often done out of cups by poor refs (Paris EC final v Bayern, FA replay at Old Trafford v dirty Chelsea eg
Astle was offside.
Bit rich a L666s fan calling Chelsea “dirty”. Kettle shouting grimy ass!
Watch the video and see why ,then.Chelsea would have had 3 straight red cards in the first 15 minutes .11 v 8 ,even Leeds couldn't throw that away.No need for any retaliations if the referee had done his job.
@@mickeasingwood7451 yeah but we apply those rules to every Leeds game in there era Leeds would have regularly finished with 8 men
@@ianbennett1491 look ware astle was he was behind the half way line you idiot.
The goal was given .
Leeds were awful that day even if you forget that goal.
That other team was rubbish ..... they had loads of time to get back in the game .... but they were totally outclassed. Albion forever !!
actually no, this was at the end of the game, leeds scored but had no time left, you are talking rubbish.
One thing that is missed here which younger fans would not appreciate. The offside rule was interpreted much differently in those days. It was much stricter. The albion lad was offside when Brown played it forward and i'm certain different officials of the day would have disallowed the goal. I'm not a Leeds either.
*ASTLE IS KING* now and forever.
It's a real shame, that Leeds side were fantastic, but all they're remembered for is Bly Bremner's elbows, Norman Hunters knee high tackles and there cynical dirty fouls.
Eddie Gray and Terry Cooper were two of my favourite players at the time
Best goal Jeff astle ever scored shame he couldn't do for england
.....well he did in Mexico70...against Romania...
@@chatham43 No he didnt . Geoff Hurst scored. Astle was not a world class player.
He was useless
Thug team which ran riot for years. Pity they'll be remembered as such because there was so much talent in that side.
they gave what they got, mr McDonald... a lot of teams obviousely "lost their trewsers" a'gin leeds. objectivity is lacking.. do try.
Good goal all day long !! Even VAR would have confirmed it :)
One Jeff Astle, there's only one Jeff Astle!
Legend. sadly missed
Except for that sitter he missed for England ☹️
Said to be our favourite striker of all time, but he's my number 2. There's only one Cyril Regis xxx. I still can't believe he's gone.
Given the rules of the time in regard to offside ,it was offside. As many used to say if your not interfering with play what the hell are you on the pitch for. Others on here either hated Leeds or are looking at it from the the overly complex offside rule of today. Others are of the view that Suggett was not offside because Brown only intercepted the ball, and then kept possession. However Suggett was active and ready to participate. The ball travelled quite a long way towards Suggett. Anyone with any ounce of cultural awareness will realise and fully understand that Suggett was definitely offside. The offside rule then was totally totally different, it was not up to interpretation. Any referee on here suggesting otherwise , has his mind confused by what came later. They are putting interpretations on time honoured matters and they have no right to do so.
Cry more
I am a Leeds fan though agree if that happened now it would definitely stand. May have been offside in those days I guess but we can't complain too much.
This was before I was born but it boils my blood every time I see it
I hope it is Leeds v Albion in the playoff final at the end of the month and the Baggies go up with a last minute of extra time winner in similar style to this 🤣🤣🤣🙏
2022 laws: clearly no offence.
1971 laws: "if a player is seeking to gain an advantage by being in an offside position". That's a strange phrase, but Colin Suggett clearly started trying to get down the field, so he did seem be taking advantage of his location. I am old, and I remember far too many goals being disallowed for this technicality. The current laws are a big improvement.
A couple of things that were in newspaper reports, but are offscreen here: the linesman had stopped, with his flag up- he wasn't trying to keep up with play. And the Leeds players also saw the referee lifting his whistle to his mouth...but no sound came. They were wrong to stop, but you can see their point.
Some people seem confused as to whether this was off-side back then.
Actually it was not offside then and it is not offside now.
Back then interfering with play was not the issue, but the interception was not a pass, the player kept possession and brought the ball forward. He did not 'play' the ball. Every one of your team mates could be in an off side position but if you do not play the ball forward (ie pass it or hoof it, or in some other way get rid of it) but instead keep possession and dribble it forward, then your team mates may be in off-side positions but it is not off-side.
The player up front may have been in an off-side position but he is not off-side until the ball is 'played' forward, that is to say passed, not necessarily to him but to anyone. However the ball was not passed, but taken forward by the guy who intercepted.
The linesman was actually right to raise his flag because it is not his call whether the pall is passed forward or taken forward. It is the referees decision. The linesman's decision is exclusively whether or not the striker was in an off-side position, which he was, but it is not off-side because the ball was taken forward and not passed forward. Which is the referee's decision. Exactly what happened.
Today the linesman should still raise the flag for the player being in an off-side position and its the referee's job to decide whether or not the ball was passed or the player in the off-side position was interfering with play.
So both officials did exactly the right thing. The Leeds players should have played to the whistle, and the commentator clearly didn't know the rules.
The linesman flagged for offside.ALL the players on BOTH sides stopped playing.This was how offside decisions were made at the time.Tinkler went against the accepted conventions of the time.It's why it was so controversial at the time and why it's still talked about 50 Years later.
Astle was offside on the last pass as well.But Tinkler was 30 yards behind play and the linesman was still stood bewildered, holding his flag up from the original offside.
The decision taken, in the context of how the offside calls were made in 1971 was absolutely outrageous.
@@mickeasingwood7451 I'm really sorry but that's not correct. "Play to the whistle" was (and still is) the mantra.
No player ever, EVER, takes his lead from a linesman (assistant referee) - if that were the case then there would be more than one person in charge.
That has never happened.
The referee is and always was in charge.
No player should ever play to the flag.
For example, it is not and never was the linesman's call to judge whether someone is interfering with play.
It is his job to raise the flag if someone is in an off-side position when the ball is played and it is the job of the referee to make the call about interference, which he will do with the use (or not) of his whistle.
This is why it is and was always the rule that players should play to the whistle.
It makes no difference if both sides made the same mistake and stopped playing before the whistle was blown.
That is what the whistle is for, to start and stop play.
Play never begins without a whistle.
And play never stops without a whistle.
If the ball is in play and the whistle does not stop it, then the ball continues to be in play even if all the players go off for a shit.
The referee must be in charge and have the final judgement, he must have the opportunity to overrule the linesman and so the players must play to the whistle not the flag.
It is the case now and it has always been the case.
Play the whistle. Brian Clough preached it, but Leeds just gave him 44 days.
I can play that again and again and again, always get a thrill shiver! Who do I support? Northampton Town and whoever Manchester United are playing, except Leeds.
And here is why you should always play to the whistle
Perfectly good goal. Leeds fans should stop gripping.
You’re confusing the 2021 offside rule to what it was than
@@deletebilderberg No you're wrong, the player to his left was not interfering with play. He had no effect on the leeds players, at the moment the ball was played.
no offside. those wabbling about "history of football" shoul shut up and read the rules
The rules were different at that time.
@@magnele4711 thank you
There was no offside. No pass was made it was an interception and when the pass was ultimately made to Astle he is behind the ball. Officials were correct. What was Barry Davies on about?
Gavin Bowles I think it was more the fact that the linesman flagged, so half the players stopped but the ref never blew...
But is Astle behind the ball when it is passed? Doesn't look like it from this angle...
As others have said, the offside rule was different then. A West Brom player is standing in an offside position when the ball gets played forward, simple as that. Now there would be no problem.
Even today with VAR all the technology, millions of different camera angles etc etc,it would stand.
No it wouldn't,Astle was offside on the final pass.If they had VAR in those days,the goal Leeds had disallowed prior to this incident may well have stood as well.
Looked onside even by old rules. Brown was the next player to touch the ball after his own interception.
Also, we can't see Suggett's position relative to the Leeds defence at the time of the interception.
To paraphrase Jack Hawkins in The League of Gentlemen (1960) ...
"We football authorities will always give the Germans, the Russians, the Japanese, or even the Egyptians the benefit of the doubt, but NEVER Leeds."
Liverpool did that to us a few years ago after our player tapped the ball ready to take a free kick and they scored and got away with it.
Idiot ... the rules back then were different
Surely the no.8 who ran with the ball into the penalty area was onside, so surely it was right the goal stood.
Nothing wrong with the goal at all. In fact it's even more onside that we can witness on tv simply because it is against the most hated club in England.
Maybe the most hated at that time, because they were from an unfashionable region and successful at a time when all teams had tough/dirty players. I would think that Manchester United are probably the most hated now for many reasons. Over twenty years of success and a siege mentality when Ferguson was manager.
I was at the game supporting my team, Leeds. The dreadful decision which ultimately caused Leeds to lose the Championship by one point.
Great wasn't it.
Leeds always had it in their own minds that they were a great side. They didn't win enough to be able to say that. Just 5 titles in the Revie period and runners-up on many occasions. Too many occasions and their cockiness did them no favours.
What? How is that an offside? What are they mad about? Did the rules change regard offside since 71?
Yes, the rules have changed 3 times since then. They first changed in 1990. Prior to 1990, if a player was in an offside position regardless of whether he was interfering with play it was given as offside and a free kick would be given.
Not an offside goal. Still hate the linesman though
Note Suggett running sideways to make sure all the Leeds players noticed him.
The ref subsequently retired to run his own coach company on Barry island called Dave's Coaches.
That was definitely NOT offside. Brown retained possession and Suggett wasn’t inter fearing with play. Not Barry Davies’s finest hour.
A good goal then and still a good goal now. Play on until the ref says otherwise. Long live the King ( Jeff Astle).
The same rule that said there was no offside was the same one that said bremner was in Paris in 1975. Both goals should have been given but who cares. Swings and roundabouts. Crap pass started it all off
The not interfering with play rule of today is too disputable, and can be judged differently by different refs/linesmen or anyone else. We need to re-instate the old rule of 2 defending players(1 can be the goal keeper) between the goal line and the attacking team from when the ball is kicked. However, in this instance the ball was intercepted from a Leeds player, it was not a deliberately kicked forward from the WBA player, who then ran forward with the ball past the offside Suggett, so in my view not offside at the point where Leeds appealed for offside.
Ray Tinkler--My Hero--unfortunately he received death threats after this game.
Hes still alive at 93, they didnt get him.
If anything, it's the last pass that has an attacker in an offside position.
You were offside if you were in an offside position.Even if you were on the other side of the pitch.The rules changed because players were on the floor and still considered to be offside.
Fair goal, but it was the linesman who put up his flag far too soon, and then all
hell broke loose .......
Football , it’s a funny old game 😉
astle the KING
Poor Stevie Gerrard didn't have the consolation of a creative referee, in his fateful screw-up in a very similar position to Hunter's.
That's the referee's envelope straight in the bin
KEY WORDS: The rule was way different then and quite compilcated. AS BEST I understand it, in the 1970s being in an offside position (regardless of whether the ball was passed to you) was actually considered offside once the ball was in the opponents side.
the linesman made the mistake and Barry Davies was out of order supporting Leeds when it was obvious there was no offside - didn't he know the rules of football??
It's offside from the first interception. Suggett is offside and immediately turns to support the attack. You see it in the replay. Under the old rules that's offside as he's clearly gaining an advantage.
Intercepting is not passing.
Springett was as much a spectator during the move as those on the terraces.
classic example of play to the whistle - no whistle? then carry the fuck on
That's a goal. Get over it Leeds. The way WBA intercepted the back pass.
I remember it well. I seem to recall the following week Leeds lost again, away at Stoke I think, after being 2-0 ahead.
No. that was the 73/74 season .
@@Lord_Hillcrest I stand corrected. Who was it that beat Leeds the week before the Stoke match?
@@stevenroper2754 What year are you talking about . That Stoke game in 73/74 was to end Leeds's unbeaten run .
@@Lord_Hillcrest I've found it now. When Leeds lost at Stoke, after being 2-0 ahead, it was after they had lost 0-1 at home to Bristol City in the cup. A few weeks later they lost three games on the bounce, Liverpool away, Burnley at home, West Ham away, but they were still crowned champions after everyone thought they were going to throw it away. With the Albion game, following that one they won their last three games. I got there in the end, sorry for the confusion.
@@Lord_Hillcrest The Mighty Potters. In those days!
If you push the ball forward and run into it you can’t be offside (even then)
For me the issue is when he passed it to Astel (offside or not), it should have been flagged at that point because it became a new pattern of play
I think the only way a goal should have stood is if the player who intercepted it (and pushed it forward) had finished it (naturally with no other WBA touching the ball)
No whistle. Play to the whistle. The problem with this is the Leeds players were standing around and not trying to get back- like an expectation of the referee would let them off- arrogant. And that's where you see Don Revie and the knuckle draggers invading the pitch. No it's a sport. The off-side rule to is prevent goal hanging, not to allow bullying. They chose the most ruthless partnership in the Premier League at the time to take their chances with- WBA's Astle and Brown. To their folly.
Geoff Astley wasn't offside its the bloke in front you stop it and look
King astle💙
... even the commentator does not understand the outside rule. The player in the offside position is only 'offside' if the ball is passed forward to him ... which it wasn't and it was against Dirty Don's Dirty Leeds so happy days 😂
correct decision, Sugget in-active in move, no whistle, no need for Leeds players to stop. Barry Davis GOT IT WRONG.