Setting the Record Straight on Foot Faults || Tournament Central on Disc Golf Network
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2024
- Casey White joins Brian Earhart and Nate Perkins to discuss recent cardmate calls on the tour. Brian puts his foot down on the notion of a brace foot shifting into a marker being an infraction.
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I think Hailey might have forgot that the new rule is just a stroke penalty. It hasn't been that long since the rule was changed from a warning and rethrow, to just play it where it lies with a stroke penalty with no warning. If it was the old rule, she would have had to rethrow, giving her an opportunity to throw OB and actually change the outcome.
Idk it's not like this rule was just changed. I started playing in 2021 and this has been a stroke penalty the entire time I've been playing. I'm going to doubt she thought it was a warning and re-throw.
RE-SIZE the AREA! There is no reason to make a player have to step so close to the disc. Double the length BUT keep the width the same....That is where the competitive advantage lies....the width.
They have 11” back I believe. That’s a lot. No one needs to be that close to their disc.
I like this idea. Reminds me of when Nikko called Ricky for being too far behind his disc. While Nikko was correct, Ricky essentially made the hole longer for himself in the middle of an open fairway. No advantage gained whatsoever.
@@discgolfspeedruns165 I remember that call. Ricky did not gain an advantage there. Was a good call by Nikko. But going too far back could give a better lie to avoid obstacles or no restrictions of a swing. 30cm or 11.8 inches is the rule. More than enough to not step on your mini or disc and not really enough to give you an unfair advantage.
@@discgolfspeedruns165 He did gain an advantage. By being further back, he gained an advantage on the angle he wanted to throw. There was a tree in front of him. It was still a correct call.
@@seanmeier7953 Yep, increasing the area would definitely provide an advantage in some cases.
NOT a foot fault
Great analysis, thank you for that.
I have size 15 feet and I spin or pivot on my heel a lot. I've definitely been called on a foot fault before and argued these same points. One of my exact quotes to one of these guys was "Dude, this is a game of inches, but it ain't those inches!"
Circle one I get that. The other while in a run up shot should rarely be called unless it is so blatant its hard to ignore. Rarely ever would a few inches change the shot on a run up shot. Now from behind a bush and step out too far that could really change the shot. Like ob lines your foot like the disc needs to be in contact with the zone/line. So even touching your disc would be a matter of your foot still touching the zone and should not be worried about. Stepping on your disc is a punishment in and of itself you risk injury. Anyone I play with can cheat as much as they want its not going to give them that much of a chance to beat me. Which means I would never call anyone for stupid stuff like that.
This. Run ups in the middle of the fairway should be more lax, standstills and patent pendings from the brush or behind the trees (where it matters more and actual advantage can be gained) shouldn't. The area is really small and very hard to hit during a full on run up. Also, people with large feet are at a disadvantage here.
One of the important rules regarding spirit and enforcing rules in ultimate is that it is established *in the rules* that we don't believe anyone would *intentionally* break them. This is a great help in removing feeling that the call is personal to you.
The honor system, in America, is outdated. This isn't a recent problem. These foot faults have gone on, on the tour, for so long, that it's now controversial to call them out. PDGA knows it is broken. Honor system, in disc golf, does not work, at the pro level.
I would defiantly have a big advantage on 2nd shots if I didn't have to worry about a 11" island for my feet to be in while I throw. Give me a tee pad behind my lie I can focus on the shot and not where my feet will be. I like the rule as it stands.
No one gains an advantage by stepping on it's disc. Only thing youll get is an injury.
doesnt mean you shouldnt call it by the rules. i dont think the missy one was a foot fault, but if someone foot faults, and it doesnt give them an advantage, it shouldnt just be ignored. thats not how rules work
A broken ankle foot fault 😂
One that will haunt you forever 👻☠️
@@tobiaskaurel2560 I think the point is that the rule should be changed
Sure you do. It takes a portion of your concentration to land your foot in the correct spot when doing a run-up. If you don't care about stepping on your disc, then you are free to concentrate fully on everything else.
Dumb rule to begin with aside from someone blatantly trying to cheat. Enforce it in the circle, teepad, and standstill shots. Give the run up a little more leeway since there's no advantage (unless you're abusing it). High speed reply will reveal soooo many foot faults from 99% of players.
No it won't.. because it's easy to train your run up to not for fault. I did it in one week and I'm terrible
I agree. Dumb rule. No advantage to it. If you step on your disc on your run up it's more likely to screw up your shot.
@@C.A.D. If there were a rules official, I promise you'd get called out at least once every few rounds.
@@805guitars2 promise I wouldn't
Would go even that far that player should be allowed to step on the disc. This also doesn't give any advantage on the throw. Vice versa, this makes lie more slippery and harder to control you're throw. Agree that this kind of rule needs to be changed more logical ASAP!
Simple solution: be like a professional sport and have actual officiators making the calls and stop the player officiating. I understand that's not feasible at the lower levels, But at least on the pro tour, where tens of thousands of dollars or sometimes on the line, there should be officials. Not only does that help in fair play, But it eliminates players like Hailey from receiving negative and hateful comments when she was just trying to do her task. I wonder if everyone slamming her for making a call that she thought was a fault, is aware that according to the rules is a courtesy violation to not be watching out for these things, and if you think something is a violation you are obligated to call it, which is why they have the rules of seconds, So if you are unsure you can make a call and someone else with another angle can either second it or say no it was fine. Or similar situation last year with holyn handley when her shot didn't cross back in bounds but she and the card mates thought it did, and everyone ripping on her. Having actual tournament officials eliminates dishonest play, and it eliminates honest players being accused of dishonest play, simply because they don't have the luxury of different angles and replays and slow motion. Another perfect example is Paige Pierce, when she lost her balance on a C1 putt and called herself on it but no one else on the card been watching so they couldn't second it and a TD had to get involved because according to the rule of seconds someone else has to second it that they saw it, but she knew she lost her balance and fell forward, and was trying to play honest. Self-officiating at a professional level is ridiculous.
100% agree.
How many officials do you need? 1 per card? 1 per player? If the official misses the call but the whole card saw the violation, is it a violation? Are these officials...official? Or just another volunteer plucked from the crowd?
Do you know how many PGA officials are present at a golf tournament with a 25 million dollar payout?
Players with the ability to regulate in real time eliminates dishonest play. A concurrence of a violation by a card mate eliminates dishonest/mistaken calls.
Hot take- Place your mini every time. Chances are way lower someone will see a pivot touch (not a foot fault) which wont cause the King awkwardness.
Having to place your mini also makes it so there isn't any talk when people choose to not place their mini which leaves them just outside of circle one so they can step putt.
@@Gekayshaman Great example, I completely agree.
She clearly called it to try to help here when she was down to strokes
Two
@@waynebryant1857 ok English teacher I made a mistake
I agree with Brian - Missy's shot was good. That's not a foot fault. His analysis was spot on.
Lol why did they give Perkins a fucking ham radio mic 😂 sounds like he’s about to call the 1921 world series
🤣 💯
Bluetooth is just not a good way to mic yourself.
"Up at the mound is Old Curly. He's a 47 year old alcoholic. He's the greatest athlete alive... runs a 6 second 40 yard dash... fastest man alive, they say" - Shane Gillis
If disc golf is supposed to prioritize sportsmanship and fair play to the highest degree, then players should take every reasonable measure to make sure that they are following the rules to avoid putting players in the position to call them on rules. In the same breath, there shouldn't be a fear about calling people on breaking the rules. If someone lashes out and makes someone uncomfortable after being called on some sort of violation, that's like the bully threatening someone who seeks help, or someone who commits crime threatening to commit more crimes against you for going to the police. Shane on those who break the rules and then make those following the rules uncomfortable. Obviously no one is TRYING to break the rules, so talk about it with civility if you contest, accept responsibility if you're in agreement, and move on
@2:35 I think everyone feels this way 🫣
Much agreed
My opinion is that your disc or mini should be allowed as part of the included zone. This would literally get rid of 99% of the issue
That would make it even more difficult to tell foot fault though.
How so?
@@alley8503people will start to step over disc if they get any advance doing that and how do you think you would see if foot hit gras behind disc?
People touch and tap their mini/ disc all the time before during and after letting go of disc. As eluded in the video here, it doesn’t really impact your game that much and in fact stepping on your disc can alter your shot even worse! Thus, by simply allowing the touching of your disc or mini, as long as you aren’t egregiously kicking it 30 feet closer before you make your throw, sounds pretty fair imo.
I would only call the most egregious faults. I have seen Ricky throw a good two plus feet behind his mark or the one that Casey mentioned. That's honestly a joke to call Hailey on that one, but if a player throws more than one foot behind their marker, they are looking for a more comfortable place to throw.
Brian couldn’t be more wrong about it stinking that there’s a stigma about calling footfaults.
The rules need to change. I can’t believe anybody thinks the fix would be to cause more controversy. Even Casey admits to not paying attention until the foot fault was called and he looked down and confirmed what was squeaking. A number of top pros (PM) have admitted on camera that they don’t want the aggravation of playing on a card that’s nitpicking at all the foot faults.
I think when most of us play, we just don’t care when it doesn’t make any difference. The pros could easily change the rules that when somebody’s in the fairway that inadvertently touching the disk, or the mini doesn’t matter, or being ever slightly to the side or short. Where most people would be concerned about footfaults is around trees and brush. Most of us usually do a stand still because we can’t swing our arms or run forward. Maybe these areas could be marked as “off the fairway”. Implementing a standstill rule. Mostly cheating would come in to play when in these situations.
Rules need to be written, so they’re easy to enforce and cause less controversy rather than more. I know if the sport gets big enough, they could always have refs and instant replay. But until then, the pros should play how we play. Loose on foot faults until it matters. Then make it clear and easy to enforce.
I wonder if Hailey's thoughts on encouraging others to call foot faults are because she simply didn't understand that what she thought were foot faults (rotating over the line after release) are not in fact foot faults. FWIW, I've had people give me the stink eye when my foot rotates off the front of the tee pad after release.
I see more problems with marking the lie off to the side of a disc to get a better foot position when in the brush/problematic area. This is definitely advantageous cheating. we need more calling out of rule breaking. Like when a player tanks his/her round so it wont affect their rating. I notice this all the time now. Maria oliva exemplified this nicely in texas. watch your local tournaments, the MPO players do this quite often.
XD big drama situation !! feels so personal!! geez.... ☹
Pro Disc Golf can’t even decide on a standardized tee pad size, nor on basket height… who cares about some silly foot fault(?)…
I think play is it called footballs on people that are winning to get in their head that's what I think yes it does throw you off your game makes you think about your plan
Paul Mcbeth calling simon on that one hole off the pad LOL he's like "look you can see your footprint right there" YA PAUL THE DISC WAS ALREADY OUT OF HIS HAND ITS CALLED A FOLLOW THROUGH
Nah... it was where Simon was bracing as well - not following through. I wouldn't have called it, but it was clearly call-able.
@@Kastled5 you're cooked bro, it's after he pivots.
@@sm-jj2wp ah, yeah... I guess that could be so. Say, tho, if his heel is the only thing on the pad (and the majority of his foot off) at the time of release... then what is it then?
@@Kastled5 Ahh yes, the condescending route nice.. then it'd be a hole in one i think?
@@sm-jj2wp there was no intention of condescension. I admitted you could be right. I see how you could've taken it that way
If you think it's a fault call it you can't see in slow speed .
If the rest of the card supports it, that is the ruling. This should not be controversial. However the rule in foot faults should maybe be more clearly defined.
Nate's mic is facing completely the wrong way, lol.
Anyone saying there is no "advantage" doesn't understand what they are saying. If you KNOW you won't be called for accidentally stepping on your disc your are more mentally clear and don't have to worry about it. While if you think you might be called you have to focus more on your foot placement and can impact your throw. I think of it like someone flipping their disc and gaining and inch because it goes forward a bit in a casual round(yes you don't flip discs in tournament play but making a comparison). That inch or whatever you gain probably doesn't make a difference at all BUT if it puts your buddy in a clearer mental state it could help them out.
At the end of the day it's in the rules and everyone should attempt to follow the rules and all the rules should be equally enforced on everyone playing in the tournament. There shouldn't be a negative feeling about calling someone since it is what it is. They are the ones to make the mistake if it was accidental. Missy's throw however doesn't appear to be a foot fault from the video footage.
Well, its either a rule or it isn't. Clarify discrepancies and enforce the rules. Is it a mandotary or a sometimesatory? Is it ob, fair ir closr enough?
people with size 14 cant even fit in the "box"
We should call foot faults more often so that it becomes normal and no one gets upset or takes it personally.
This “type” of foot fault has no advantage at all to the shot. I can understand a foot fault being called if your to left or right of the lie because your trying to dodge a bush or tree. That’s a lot unfair advantage so therefore it’s a penalty stroke
If it were a foot fault, which it’s not, the advantage is that the thrower doesn’t have to think about where their foot is landing. Someone mindful of the rules is spending mental energy following the rules.
@@kyleweir689ding ding ding! Critical thinking for the win folks!
@@kyleweir689They still have to make sure they don't step closer to where their disc landed, so that they don't gain an actual distance advantage. I'm perfectly fine if someone has to throw a foot or two longer shot because they planted a foot or two behind their lie, that's a disadvantage if anything.
This didn't set any record straight. Maybe a side-by-side super slow motion example with Missy's foot and the point of release, synced frames, could. Perhaps rules and examples should be displayed with explanations on why or why not to set the record straight.
Well "putt" Nate.
Rules must be enforced by officials and not by the players themselves. Would a rookie call a rule violation on a 5 time world champion?
Why wouldn't they call the rule violation? World Champs are not allowed to cheat, just saying.
@@johnm8338 you have not been around humans alot have you?
Then just get refs then!
oh yeah, i have never called a foot fault on a card mate during a tournament. that would be so fucking awkward the rest of the game if they were a turd about it.
or U were the turd.... LOL
My 8 year olds second tournament a 40 year old woman called her on a foot fault. Ya it was fuckin awkward
What about the poorly designed holes on tour where players don’t establish their stance along the line of play to the basket, but rather along the line of play to their throw
I mean there's an easy fix for that; more mandos.
So either that rule is changed and intuitive play continues, or we have mandos all over the course so players can actually throw down wooded fairways.
@@J0SH.0 that’s what I’m getting at… change the rule to have the stance lie area be along the intended line of play.
No way. Those are the rules and the player should know roughly where the basket is at all time.
@@kyleweir689 No way. It's a simple rule. Just put your foot where it belongs. "Along the intended line of play"? That's super vague and would cause a ton of trouble. I usually warn people when I see them lining up wrong in those situations. Before they throw. Like "hey, remember where the basket is".
@@justbrowsing5279 you do… pros don’t care. The rule needs to be amended so they aren’t all but forced to break the rule by hole design. Hole 9 at DDO great example. Go watch where they throw from after their tee shots… it’s not a proper lie area based on no mandatory and where the basket is.
Line of play isn’t vague at all. If you’re throwing ^ that way, your lie is behind ^. It’s extremely simple, and much easier to enforce than the current rule.
The small amount of advancement that comes from a foot fault is so negligible I don’t know why the actual pros care, a habitual problem I understand but calling something on a hole like Hailey did was wrong and she should get flack for it
Furthermore, if she had the opportunity to place a mini in front of that disc instead (I don't know how the lie was established for this shot) she would have been even closer than the 'advancement' that is occurring here. 🤷♂
Some people argue that you gain an advantage by 'not thinking about whether you'll hit the plant area or not' whereas they 'have to think about it' but i think that's stretching it.
So I missed the part where they set the record straight about the actual controversy; jump/step putting? What a failure...
This rule doesn’t matter if you’re cool.
There are officials present for calling footfalls. And spotters for ob. And..... maybe let them call the shots........🤔
No run up after your tee shot would solve this
Dumb comment of the week.
@@waynebryant1857 instead of being an ass try to have a conversation.
Haaaaaa!!!!!!! You serious?
@@waynebryant1857 why is this dumb? Have a conversation. How would this not solve this issue?
Simon suggested a 'standstill only when in the hazard' rule once, so this could be achieved with strategic hazard placement (without a penalty stroke) in some places in the middle of the the fairway. I'm not for it though, let the pros rip, we want to see the discs fly far.
If you are cutting that close to the drop shame on you. If you are calling a foot fault that is so close it's nit picking, shame on you. No way on earth that 2" or less of foot placement made any difference in the throw.
Until the sport is big enough to warrant officials on every hole while not slowing the game down this is the best we have.
Missy falsely accused by King and Nate defends and feels bad for King.
This is a huge problem.
you're misunderstanding what he said. he feels bad that she was behind and feels bad for players that they're put in that position to make those calls. didn't sound like he defended her at all
I think he feels bad because he sees that it was a bad call, and he feels bad for the negative feedback king will receive from the bad call. Didn't seem like he agreed it should have been called
Yeah, milk is coming off the shelves cause of this
@@maxherzog3287
She should get blowback, including from him, that's my point.
@@jared675
No I'm not misunderstanding anything, but thanks for trying to defend.
They’re literally paid professionals who know all the rules just as well as Hailey. All pro-level sports, from chess to football to cornhole to weightlifting, utilize the flexing and enforcing of rules to maximize their chances of winning. Especially when their opponent slips up, it’s a chance to make a call to put it on display for the whole tournament; and get in their opponent’s head. One slip-up and one “check” call, Pro Move.
Haley has been a psychological mess from the beginning, from playing the quitter to now this, she joins Locastro as someone I won't watch.
You can eliminate foot faults by not allowing players to run up. The courses could be shorter because you can't generate as much distance from a stand still shot. Alternatively put an official in every group and make them monitor the foot placement
You mispronounced Ratalie Nyan.
Nate perkins take on this is complete insanity
Professional sports have professional officials.
When you expect players to police each other, then you should expect amaturish and controversial drama to follow.
It's sad, unnecessary, and the opposite of professional. It makes disk golf look like a hobbie, not a real sport.
How sad is it that in a sponsored sport with sponsored athletes, there are no professional officials?
I think it's inexcusable, and companies who sponsor tournaments need to demand paid officials or pull their backing. Punish the sport. Shame it into the modern, professional sport it deserves to be.
you should call a foot fault. why would you care about someone's personal feelings towards you for pushing rules? I would have much preferred to hear from the top pros and not these guys, respectfully.
If you call a foot fault on someone, you definitely were the snitch in school
It needs to be made into a silent effort. Mark it as you see it on a card or phone. Turn that into the TD at the end of the round. If the threshold is met, a discussion is had with the other members of that card; strokes awarded accordingly. Knowing everyone is accountable, hopefully this would help relieve some of the immediate tension typically caused on the course.
Stepping on your disc before you throw has no advantage, it makes your throw much harder, shouldn't be the spirit of foot fault when no advantage occurred
I wish this sport never got to this place. Everything I hate about all other televised sports is now happening to disc golf. It is now a soap opera.
Being part of the drama is completely voluntary. It's very easy to NOT click on videos that seem provocative (any dgworld video...) If you just follow tourney footage and not the talking heads looking for clicks, drama seems to disappear.
When there is thousands of dollars on the line or your on the bubble of being invited to participate on the pro tour you will see more fouls called.
it's BS, calling foot faults are for losers....
OMG Nate, you just spent half the video talking and didn't even answer his question. Can't believe I tried to watch a Disc Golf Pro Tour video again just to be reminded why I don't bother watching their videos.
one of the dumbest rules.
It's very petty to call these foot faults, and in my opinion the cause is the influx of bigger money creeping into this sport.
So, are we gonna talk about Tattar's constant foot faults on her jump putts? Cause, every single one of her jump putts is a foot fault. All of them.
Pierce too
Doesn't it make the putt harder if both feet are off the ground? Try to jump up and throw a disc, you have lost power when in the air!!!! Until they get a Marshall, small things need to be let go..
Matt Orum,Macbeth, Hokom…..tons do it.
My feet are bigger than the regulation lie area so Im having trans-foot surgery before i turn pro next year.
This is a great way to get Logan Ryan out of FPO. Just keep calling foot faults on him on every throw!
The step putts some of the MPO guys are pushing are the bigger issue... We can all slow down and freeze frame it. Y'all are GUILTY!😂
But it's not like the card is able to tell a split second fault like that and count on a 2nd from the card, then risk souring the card's vibes...
Pretty bad for rules integrity and adding a bunch of asterisks by those wins✌🧝