Monday Monologue: Voicing an Amplifier
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2024
- Today I'm going to discuss my process on voicing a tube amplifier and what's involved. Different types of amps require different amounts of this but IMHO a single ended amp using schade feedback is very sensitive to this. At the end, it results in a great sounding amp!
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I have been dealing with a lot of what you are doing for over 60 years. why am I here? I am still learning. there is no end to learning.
Obviously I am as well. If there were no possible surprises, this wouldn't be fun :)
Thanks Stephe for allowing us to join your journey. It really is fun.
Your enthusiasm and personality are so genuine it’s a joy to listen to you. And who knows, I just might be learning something.
Really cool to have a designer recommend tubes that go well with their amps. Can save someone some cash and you know the amp sounds as designed
Thank you for a lot of practical and useful information from your recent experience you shared with us this monday. This monday even richer.
always a learning experience, sister.
Very enjoyable watching/listening as you work through this! I believe it was Bill Cosby (not the greatest reference given how his life and career have ended up as a result of his bad behaviour ) who said “ I don’t know what the secret of success is, but I know how to fail, and that’s trying to please everyone” You’re doing it so it sounds right to you, and that’s how it’s supposed to be done :)
I'm building an amp I would want to listen to :)
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Which will, when the time comes - and it will - when you have to “sell” these, make it way easier to do! It won’t be selling at all, you’ll be able to just speak about them with a genuine passion.
This may be one of your best monday monologues Steph !
Testing is a usefull "tool" and helps alot but voicing until it sounds good is the correct way to go .
The less NFused and the less number of components in the design will reveal the sound signature of every component in a given design .
Huge amounts off feedback are used in many amplifiers to measure better but in fact used to lower the damping factor of mainstream current loudspeakers needing that damping ..those speaker are not made for tube amplifiers .......
Your experience is important to share with many builders and you do it the right way ........
For info , tyhere are some nice sounding capacitors made in the usa that are affordable and do realy sound GOOD and coherent ( same observations shared with some expensive boutique capacitors , they mostly sounding to bright !)
Arizona capacitors .....Aluminum in oil ......( three types available .........all sound wonderfull and musicaly balanced )
Kind regards
Those caps cost 2X what these Mundorfs I use are. I can't consider a $15 cap a "boutique" part! Thanks for the note.
Wow, this is actually the first time that I found somebody else mentioning the idea of also strapping the surpressor grid to the plate for triode connection of a pentode without internal g3-cathode connection ! I can't help thinking that g3 on cathode while only g2 strapped to the plate must somehow compromise the triode characteristics. But, I recently found in a pentode data sheet (unfortunately, have forgotten which one) in the Limiting Data section giving V max for g3 as +40V! Also notable that in all EL34 data sheets the surpressor grid is set '0' for triode configuration, so maybe it needs cautious approach what positive voltage g3 can take.
On another note, my 'go-to' triode for that power level is the 6080, obviously both systems in parallel. But it would also allow a PP single-tube output stage, although PP is thought to somehow defeat the special tonal characteristics of the triode, isn't it?
Not to forget, I much agree with your encouragement for people modifying available schematics as a learning experience and much increased satisfaction with the result! Keep on the good work!
Mad man across the water is also my reference standard. Great video! I had a sneaky suspicion that break-in didn't take so long.
50% science. 40% art, 10% voodoo. Ultimately, its the voodoo part that makes life interesting.
Yup!! :)
Great stuff Stephe! Thanks.
I've had great experiences with the 7025eh. Good sound and very quiet
I was impressed with the reduced THD too. Like I said I have a slew of different JJ 12AX7 variants on the way, I've heard good things + that 5751 tube also looks like a possible winner!
It's like tuning a musical instrument....Good luck!
Thanks, Steph 👍
I agree with tubes not changing sound with break in. But warm up is very important. Years ago I could hear clearly using daily a tube buffered CD player that it took an hour to warm up completely. About 7 minutes to be ok sounding. And the last 1/2 hour was when the subtle reverbs and echoes would become better defined making a 3D lanscape that i like so much in hifi. Similar to how you describe by the end of a record the EAR phono amp is warmed up. My first CD sounded better to the end.
The combinations would drive me crazy! I don't think I could do what you are doing. 😄
That's why I am doing it for you :)
And we appreciate it. KSS--keep it simple@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
Ha! I can't even get that right! KISS--Keep It Simple Stupid. Who's the stupid one🤣
I did notice the output tubes Bias needed a different setting when going to triode from ultra linear on an amp i was playing with years ago
It's gonna be be fascinating learning what combinations of different components & feedback amounts contributes to the voicing of these amps!
Quite a lot of variables involved now aren't there? Seems initially like a giant spreadsheet/table is gonna be required to cover all the permutations.
Good thing you're building 3 O.P.T. versions. That would soon get tedious & tiring having to swap them in & out all the time!
With any luck, certain combos will sound the same as each other, so that buy the end of your a/b/c/d...testing, the builder can just decide for themselves their preferred brand of this or that component & know it's gonna have the sound they like.
As you say, most people aren't gonna have a great pile of different brand valves to play with. The pile you had on your bench there looks like a thousand bucks worth!
Looking forward to your next video! 😃👍!
It adds up, I'm just glad there is only one driver tube lol.
....................Not able to measure ....But sure we can hear it ............INDEED ...
Hey Stephe.. The amp’s looking great.. Could you do a version with R||C on the Cathode of the 12AX7? Just as an alternative to the LED and R string.. I still prefer a really good Resistor and Capacitor in parallel at the Cathode..
I can't build one off variations, and then revoice them. If the owner wants to mod the amp, nothing is stopping them, but I also can't be responsible for what it sounds like. Same with using owner spec's caps etc.
Thanks for your great work, videos and passion into it. But it also discourages me a bit, since as a DIYer I don't have access to these fancy brands of caps, resistors, tubes and/or the possibility to give them a try and compare. I have a JC Morrison 300B amp that I built some 20 years ago, when that trend started. I used it many years. Liked it, but yes, it was a bit slow in the bass though beautiful mids and highs. It is collecting dust now. I have a brand new set of tubes for it, but I can't get myself to choose what way to go to upgrade it, and Skunkie's design might be a bit complex for my skills. About parts, weren't many "classic" tube amps we like (love) built with standard carbon resistors, electrolytic caps, known ordinary branded tubes? I listen to a standard Quad II amp right now, no Metal film etc.. and gee this amp sounds fantastic. I do believe and trust you Skunkie, but then, if each part does change the sound and needs to be tuned, then I feel lost, completely, trying to put that 300B amp back to work. Keep up the good work.
Carbon resistors are just more likely to have some hiss, the amp will still sound OK. Carbon comp resistors shift badly over time and that causes problems. The metal film resistors I use are far from fancy and cost like $0.20 each if that, I doubt you would save $5 building the amp with carbon ones. Most of the caps in the amp are just good quality nichichon, again not what I would call fancy or expensive, less than $10 and some are under $5. The one film cap I use in the power supply is like $15 at most. You can use some basic yellow coupling caps if you want, I just think these mundorf sound better and at $15 each, aren't what I would call high end parts.
And honestly this amp sound good just as it is with no "voicing". But I want to make something better than "good", I think people buying my amp deserve better than just "OK it sounds good as is" like all those BS made in China amps do. And I have the ability to do this and plan to share the results, and that a bad thing?
BTW I did a video about all the problems with that "JC Morrison" 300B amp. I built one and was super disappointed. I also did a whole video series on how to fix it using a different schematic.
I'm sorry you feel lost, but the parts I am using really aren't high priced or rare.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics thanks for your answer. The way you explain your parts' choice makes perfect sense. And, yes, I was refering mainly to the JC Morrison project, when I say I feel a bit lost about your mods. They make sense, it's rather that I've reached the limits of my actual knowledge. But I keep posted, and I'm curious to see that EL34 project taking form. Great work.
@GiguereSylvain This might be an opportunity to reach out to someone who lives near you that is into radios or electronics. Is there a HAM radio club near you? Someone might be willing to take the new Skunkie schematic, help you identify the parts you have and find the parts you need. A quick lesson in the use of a multimeter and soldering iron could boost your confidence enough for you to rebuild and enjoy your JC Morrison. It may sound better than you've ever heard it!
Just wondered if you are open to repairing X7's? Would love to have you do it and do some upgrades at the same time. Thanks for the great content!
No, sorry I'm not able to at this time.
Ms. S, how did you learn to put together your own DIY amps, was it in classes or on your own or part of sales or something?
Self taught, from reading books and mostly learning from mistakes I made along the way lol.
As a driver, a 12aT7 can be stronger than 12aX7 AFAIK. Depends on all the variables.
But also is less linear. Just look at the tube curves.
I think they are pushing AD 3 now. Could you comment on that please?
A viewer bought the AD 3 and it appears the audio analyzer suite works with it too. I'm not "upgrading" right now, maybe at some point I will look into what changed and see if it's worth rebuying it.
Hi, what will the total amount be with all parts including p & p, regards
Not there yet, some of the price will depend on what tubes are needed. The JJ 12AX7 range from $22-40 each, the GL are $65 each etc. Same on transformers + shipping will vary depending on where you live.
Okay, I'll wait then for you to have time finishing all things and have an answer, but thanks for your replay, regards
E43 L JJ are not to be compared with the original E34L Tesla .........the latter sound superior and have and sound with the best bass response compared with many output tubes ....not so with the JJ...
This JJ may sound good in some amps ..........in fact one must choose those tubes that do the job and not buy on the reputaion or hyping a specific amp ....
And indeed as you mentionned ............the input tube will ( always ) condition the initial sound of the amp ... and the less NFB used will reveal the nature of the components...tubes , OPT, capacitors , wiring and all other components ..............
What is not often mentionned is that NFB will amplify the distortion levls on very low signals and lower deatiled dynamics ........those things that make the feeling of experiencing the real world experiencec by our senses....
Have a very nice day and thank you for sharing .
Oh I'm sure some of those $$$$$ NOS tubes sound great. For a $22 tube, these sound much better than they have any right to!
Nothing to do with $ ....only acomparisson of tubes , I don't mean anything else ......bythe way when I talk about boutique capaicators , like the silver oil or silver gold from Mundorf that are way more expensive gthan theone 's you use ...it's not the first time I am missunderstood ...sorry about that !@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics
@@frankgeeraerts6243frank just wanted to let you know I have read your comments on skunkies and others videos and I enjoy your sharing your comments on what you have experienced with audio gear.
Trust Skunkie Designs or spend your money elsewhere. She's not making different versions for every buyer.
I could see maybe having a two position feedback switch, but I feel like those UL/triode switches/relays are a gimmick for a well voiced amp. You have to voice it for one or the other.