After decades of being a wrong bettor, I offer to you right now: that if you do not lay some odds on most all your don't bets you will get your ball bag grinded to beat the band. It absolutely will not work. Decent video either way. I enjoy this, will subscribe, thx. Relying on all flat bets is a very bad strategy...but you can get lucky once in awhile then you need to run outta there, lol.
I'll one up you. You said "some" odds on "most" bets. Let's change that to high odds on all bets. There's no exceptions here. Every bet. High odds. Period.
That ... or an aggressive flat bet progression. Both are huge home run hitters. It's about where you want the risk. One roll panic on a huge flat but a way better payout for less $ overall ... or not sweating the comeout, but having to drop a lot more out there for that same reward.
@@yomeesho66 Sure... but for me I'll lay less odds on the 4's and 10's and more on the 5's and 9's. At 2 to 1, those losses are way too difficult and substantial to recover. I always lay odds on 6's and 8's or hedge one of those with a place bet including the lay odds. Thx.
I hedge a lot and play the dark side, win or lose small amounts and flat bet. I start with $30 all the time, it covers any place line match. If I lose my 30 I go with $60 on the Don’t and so on. I don’t do hop bet cause it is a one time bet , do a lay bet $120 and it sits there, if a 7 comes out, I win $60, if a 11 comes out I don’t lose my lay bet. If I am not throwing I don’t do a front line bet. I do have working the 6 and 8 $30 each
I've ran hundreds and hundreds of rolls on my home table and i promise you my dice know when I'm laying the 10 or 4 for big lays. The stinking 4,6 comes waaaaay too often
So happy that color up recommended your channel to me. I love that you were using Software to show how these things act over time. I am new to craps, but I have already started writing scrypts!
Welcome aboard! Jump onto our discord at casinogaming.tv ... I'm probably going to start up a wincraps channel there where we can share scripts and tips on using it. It's a killer application
I love mixing the don’t pass also followed by a come out bet, it works great on those short rolls when a point number that gets established immediately 7s out. Good timing is everything. I actually like to do a come out bet twice in a row after a don’t pass… This way the 7 stays working in my favor an extra roll, especially when yo happens. Sometimes I even go 3 come outs in a row, just to break even if none of those new point numbers hit before the 7 out, since I would lose the 2 come out bets after the don’t pass, but win both the don’t and the new come out bet on that 4th roll.
John you asked for feedback so her is my 2 cents This is ok, but one big thing I see missing is the live chat that went with it. The live chat is important because we see things you don’t. You cover only certain options and the chat points out more than that. Yes they can go down rabbit holes or off topic but for the most part chat is giving you and the future viewer good questions or statements that should be addressed. I would like to make a suggestion that may help you. Please consider just before you go to your table to some how mark where you leave the chat to go to your table. When you come back we enjoy you taking time to read out loud the comments. Finding a way to know where to go right back quickly picking up the chat let’s everyone hear the important things that you may not have covered. I feel the chat would only get better and keep on point knowing that your gong to take the time to cover their good pertinent questions, concerns or potential helpful advice.
That's a great point. The interactive part isn't going away. What I'm eventually going to is to have the live streams done from a different channel on CZcams that's only ever going to be live streams, and they'll live there forever, so the chat will be preserved. Just not on this channel. Maybe ... But I do like the idea of pausing the chat, which I can do, and then picking it up later and coming back to re-address in a more organized way than scrolling back like I do now!
I love laying like this on the coming out with a don’t pass especially with that hard 10 bet working on the coming out. Sometimes i add a field bet in there too at the same time instead of the yo bet
I have played this system with odds at 25 and won 16 times in a row on the cruise ship. I lost for the first time (240) on a super hot roller on the last cruise, but i had a great run and was up 3300 and have gotten 15 free cruises and have 6 more free ones lined up
You are cool~ and probably THE smartest crap shooter on CZcams. 🎉 I’ve been playing these similar strategies for several years and that’s exactly how it usually turns out as odds turn against you. All it takes is one bad turn to get wiped out. Btw I’ve written scripts before on my own but never using those visuals. That’s a great software I’m gonna start testing on it.
Good luck! Darkside is a grind, but it's got more chance to win on the regular than hammering the right side. That said, hammering the right side is a hell of a lot more fun!
Awesome side by side simulation. I waffle a lot with hedging against the 7 (I’ll skip the yo hedge unless I feel like donating into the field). This is an interesting visual showing that hedging isn’t great in an extended session.
Here's what I disagree with. The field. What's gonna happen on the come out? You'll lose twice as much with a 7. Do not play the field guys. Just don't.
@@ProCrapswhat if. When you have a $30 dont bet and you HOP the 11 for $2.. why not have a $32 dont bet and a HOP the 11 for $2. You could win some money back when the dont bet wins. I dont know, just thinking....
Hedging is cool, if you can eliminate the greed factor, and slow grind, example put a place bet under your don't bets, then martingale the 7 or hop your number. after the 7th roll. Let the 15, or 30 to 1 odds get you paid, you catch a back-to-back hard way hop for 5 bucks you are paid for the day. just like you roll those 5's and 10's back-to-back you would have had a nice day.
I'm not a fan of hedging, but I agree that flat betting dc is your best payout. I lost less then 100 but it took several hrs of play since I was just flat betting the don't. So got my entertainment worth!
No hops bets at my casino. I would $5 on any 7's and $2 on 11's. 7x12=$84. You have 12 rolls to = the $82 hedge on 10 and not lose all of it on one shot. In 12 come out rolls you will probably hit a 10 like you threw 4 10's and maybe more than once. In 12 come out rolls you will definitely hit 7/11. Everytime you hit a 7/11 it resets the money you have to place on 7/11 so you are not bleeding constantly.
Instead of hedging on the come out, I like to just bet less, around half of my bet, and then make up the rest in Laying odds after the point is established. I’d be nice to see that rolled out on wincraps.
I've done the comparison, and what happens is that your losses are far greater when you're laying odds, but more frequent when you have a higher flat to get through. They end up just about the same, actually. The differences are noticed during a run of comout winners/losers or point winners/losers.
@@ProCraps Your not going to please everyone..myself…I feel people will get more from your content without the chat….but….for some the Chat is important to them. Viewers come to your channel each morning to see what your live for today is about ..and..socialize.. I will add this……One of your videos had content that I wasn’t interested in. I was already familiar with the video. I left….if the chat was there ..who knows….I might have hung around awhile and socialize…. Hope it helps….
@@EastCoastCraps Thanks for the feedback. What I'm proposing here not an either/or ... but a both. Basically I'll do the livestreams as I'm doing now, and leaving them up, but from a different CZcams channel. I'll then cherry pick the good parts to make shorter videos out of them to live as "classes" here on the Pro Craps channel. So, you'll always have both. What I'm trying to do is not completely dilute the Pro Craps channel with hundreds of these hour long shows that are have all sorts of content that's hard to follow if you weren't there during the live show.
@@ProCraps makes all the sense in the world… I have little interest myself in watching a “ live” the next day so to speak..but..would watch the Craps content the next day….like I did today…..Again your not going to please everyone. Good luck.. Be Safe…. ….. …….
There are other methods for establishing/hedging the first Don't come number, i.e. avoiding loss on 7 (and partially 11), namely Ricochet and Patrick system. I personally like the Ricochet.
Very veey interesting....however like most egghead engineers, the stats and math doesnt work in real life. I say that to say, no one is rolling 1000 rolls per session. It would a more true thing to limit the amkunt of times rolled to 50, to simulate an actual week or weekend of play.
I probably should watch the entire video before commenting, but I do understand simple math. The DP is a great bet. But the odds bet is the best. The hop bets and one roll yo bets are terrible. They carry a double digit house edge. Don't play them. The direct lay and field bets aren't bad - providing that we are talking about a double/triple field. But they carry about double the house edge that the the DP does. My conclusion is that you give away more money by trying to protect your DP, than you stand to lose in the long run. Look, in this game you gotta pick your poison. Either bet the pass line and take as much odds as your bankroll can afford or bet the don't pass and lay odds accordingly. The odds will increase your volitity, but that is how you offset your come out loses.
When I teach these things I always show all the possible options and I try and work the math as best as I can Odds on the don’t are great if you can afford them. The add to volatility and profitability big time. That said, the flat bet, mathematically speaking is the best payout in the house. 1:1 when you are the 69/40 favorite is amazing. Odds make it better from an edge standpoint but they can also be crushing
@@ProCraps Indeed, they do increase the volatility, but they are the only way to really offset the disadvantage on the come out roll. The best way to do that is with the 0% odds bet. Remember, you want to keep this thing simple.
@@ProCraps The field is certainly better than the yo, but is more or less on par with the lay. This assumes a double/triple field. A double/double is really crappy (pun intended.) Have you ever seen a triple/triple field. I did about 25 years ago. It was a promotion at a new casino, and only lasted a week. That is a dead even bet.
@patrickdebonis6493 triple/triple? Never seen one. I just like it when we have a field and set that point of 4,9,10 and that beautiful flat bet is pre-paid.
He does a hundred various of that style of play. The point I always try and make on the fonts is that nothing beats a travelled flat bet for the ROI. So try and get into that position as often as I can. And to play the ladders like he does you really need a bankroll big enough to last out the bad spells.
Depends on the day ... but I really like 2 flat don't bets as much as I like the Hedgeless Horseman (Don't pass and 3 come bets) as a way to feel it out and grind away.
How about 'doey don't' on the come out? Then odds on the don't pass? A lot of casinos won't allow a doey don't which tells me they fear that strat even though its a 'no win' bet with a 12 being a losing roll, so why fear a 'no win' bet?
I dig the new format. Nice intro and into the weeds we go. Can still get the social fix by watching live or when you set up the other channel. Good to go JC 👍
Yeah man. Every side of the table has its way to lose. In my worthless opinion if youre hedging this to cover that, then hedge another thing to cover that other hedge, then its best to not play craps or gamble at all. The best bet is always NO BET. Just keeping um real man. But if people likes to gamble their hard earned money, theres no crying in gambling if you lose. Losing money sucks but it happens everyday in the stock market, NFL, NBA, MLB, WNBA, SOCCER, almost everything has a winner or a loser. Its called gambling for a reason. But good video showcasing the dark side of the crap table, playing the DONTʻS & laybets.
I personally do not like your way of playing craps on this. Your basically a defense player and I'm more of a high power offense to hit and run fast. Put 10 dollars on the Pass Line roll your point number and put 50 on each number across that is 50x 6 so 310 which includes your pass line. Roll the dice and look for 1 safe roll for a $50 gain. Now remove all your 50 bets across and put 10 on each across for a 60 plus your 10 pass is 70 and hit the dice for the hopefully second safe roll and you win 10 so your up 60. Now you are in a free roll situation after just 2 rolls. On the 3rd bet remove all the numbers except the 6 and 8 which you should have 25 on each. You now can roll the dice for just the 3rd time and look to hit the six or eight before the seven. Anytime you hit one of them keep pressing the 25 across the board and when you have a total of 8 safe rolls cash out
I'm playing the long game most of the time. I do have a series of aggressive right side plays that I make, but 9 times out of 10, I've been at the table earning small but consistently, while watching many players win big and then give it all back. If you have discipline, either method will work. Sadly, most players don't!
@@jimklemens5018 If you really don't like the bet, you can place it. For example, say you have a $50 Don't Come bet that travels to a 6, and that worries you, you have 3 choices: 1. Pull it down ("no Action") and save the $50 2. Leave it up and risk that $50 to win $50 (you're a favorite and still getting paid even money, which is great) 3. Place the 6 for $48. On a 7, you would win $50 and lose the $48 for a net $2, on a 6, you would lose the $50, but win $56 for a net of $6 We call option #3 "Booking the house" because you can be in a no-lose situation. It's small, but that's way better than pulling the bet down. I know guys that do this with purple chip: $500 DC travels to the 5 and they place the 5 for $400. Now they guarantee themselves $100 for a 7 or $60 for a 5. You can do that same sort of lock on any number
@@KamakozzieCraps For a direct lay, the max is actually table max, unlike a DC or a DP bet where they limit your odds. So, on a $25 table with a $1000 max ... you can actually lay the 4 for $2000 (to win $1000, which is table max). Not sure I'd ever play it that way! But if you want to simulate 3/4/5 odds, on a $25 table, you'd be "allowed" to lay $150 on any number given a flat $25 bet. So, use that as your basis -- 6x what would have been your flat bet. If you like, I can run a million rolls with only laying the 4 for $150. House edge will get you here in the long run, but depending on when those 7's come you could see some nice spikes.
couldnt you hop the hard 10? maybe my understanding is wrong, thought hopping hard ten paid 30 to 1. 3 bucks and you have some coverage for one roll covers your lay bet
@@ProCraps true......../////////////.you still doing a dge sitdown in the future...........have lookedforward to it since u mentioned it awhile back......................guys da real deal
If you have a don't pass bet and a point is established, then place a don't come bet and another point is established, does it make sense to place another don't come bet? Or is it too many? Is 2 bets going at the same time the optimal amount?
ROI and Volatility. The odds bets are amazing on both sides because they pay pure. But they're not "FREE" ... you have to dump your rack to get them out there and that can be incendiary to you bankroll. It's like pre-pressing a bet that hasn't hit yet.
Seems to be human nature to take a system/method in gambling, stock market, etc that’s working and not just make minor positive tweaks but complicate it to the point of being almost impossible to use
I typically stack those winnings and try and go for it from the dark side with a free press. Unless I got bit by an earlier 7. Lately I’ve added the 12 and sometimes the field to my come outs. Surprisingly has done quite well.
Hedging on the come out roll really doesn't work in the long run ..your better off betting more after the point is made with laying odds to your don't pass bet...also make the don't come bet ..and lay odds on that as well...
perhaps this is something I'm gonna have to watch multiple times as I thought I had a decent grasp on craps until I watched this... Either I'm thinking it over too hard or the creator was all over the place where he just lost me.
You've got my ear ... so if you have questions that I can clarify, please ask away. I'm on discord too. Use the community link at casinogaming.tv to reach out. It's way easier and more real-time than the comment threads on the videos!
Remember that most videos here are snippets from our daily podcast. I do make dealing errors from time to time, of course, that makes it more "real" even if it's a bit comical sometimes. 90% of what I do is a single take, very raw. I like to think (at least I hope) that it makes it more approachable.
Is it really the hedge or the strategy being used that's sinking you? Instead of looking at the hedge as a protection for the DP bet, look at it as an attack to use that come out 7 and win. Instead of using the 4/10 (in which you have to put out 2 to 1) use the 5/9 (in which you deal with a 3 to 2 ratio - just feels less painful to loose $75 then $100 trying to win $50). You know that the hedged number is going to get hit, just seems like the 4/10 cost becomes more of a bankroll factor overtime when the hedged number gets hit). If you look at making the hedge win 2 units to cover the 1 unit on the DP bet, you should not see a "loss" because of the hedge (the 5/9 has less chance to roll then a 7) - you may loose your ass with whatever strategy you decide to use after the point is established, but I don't think it is the hedge loosing the money. So run your program to test this just against the come out (no other strategies after a point is established ... How many times did the hedged bet win and get your DP bet active vs loosing the hedge (should be pretty close to the ratio of seeing the hedged number vs a 7 in which the 7 should show a net plus by the end of the sampling period. Would be interesting to see those numbers.
That's a great test sequence to run. I did an analysis once on just the don't and the pass line and basically did one player just doing a flat line bet and no hedge, one player hedging for the minimum, and one player power hedging, where the hedges would show a profit to see the difference on the same roll sequences. I need to dig those trials up and re-run but with some better reporting
The more odds you lay the lower your ROI. You have the House against the wall why give that percentage back to the casino? There is one exception to lay odds to protect your DC bet then it is time to "Hedge" your Don't bets. Aka "Casino Math ( House edge) VS Real Math ( ROI $$$)" The Don't side has the best odds ( yes the best odds) for Dice setters and less than 2% of players know what or how to use those dice sets. You can win 200% 300 % 400 % on just one roll with the seven. We love the Don't side when the table is cold or choppy which is 48%-52% of the time. Just saying---- Good show!
wouldlove tosee chart 25 dp 3x4x5 lay full odds with one 25 dc lay full odds........roll until conclusion with no hedgeing..............that is alot more like wizard of odds recommended than what u ran..............just sayin ,,,,,,,,,nice job though
I'm doing that one today. Don't Pass with Full Odds + DC with full odds vs Don't Pass with Full Odds + 3 DC with full odds I have a sense that too many DC bets will cause some pain.
@@drdontpassone8164 I ran that exact strategy in Win Craps yesterday (Wednesday). The comparisons were: Flat DB vs Flat DP + Flat DC vs DP w/Max Odds vs DP w/Max Odds + 1 DC w/Max Odds I chopped the win craps part of it off for the re-post that's coming later today but here's the original and full broadcast from yesterday: czcams.com/video/7WgV5x-V_Fw/video.html If you want anything else setup and run side by side, let me know.
Well, there's the basic and simple concept, but the great thing about craps is all the offshoots and options you can create. It's why I love the game so much.
No, you're behind it pretty good. On a 36 outcome average, you'll lose on the 7+11 8 times and only win on the 2+3 3 times. That's a pretty big deficit. But you do have a 60% win expectation after that.
After decades of being a wrong bettor, I offer to you right now: that if you do not lay some odds on most all your don't bets you will get your ball bag grinded to beat the band. It absolutely will not work. Decent video either way. I enjoy this, will subscribe, thx. Relying on all flat bets is a very bad strategy...but you can get lucky once in awhile then you need to run outta there, lol.
I'll one up you. You said "some" odds on "most" bets. Let's change that to high odds on all bets. There's no exceptions here. Every bet. High odds. Period.
That ... or an aggressive flat bet progression. Both are huge home run hitters. It's about where you want the risk. One roll panic on a huge flat but a way better payout for less $ overall ... or not sweating the comeout, but having to drop a lot more out there for that same reward.
@@yomeesho66 Sure... but for me I'll lay less odds on the 4's and 10's and more on the 5's and 9's. At 2 to 1, those losses are way too difficult and substantial to recover. I always lay odds on 6's and 8's or hedge one of those with a place bet including the lay odds. Thx.
I hedge a lot and play the dark side, win or lose small amounts and flat bet. I start with $30 all the time, it covers any place line match. If I lose my 30 I go with $60 on the Don’t and so on. I don’t do hop bet cause it is a one time bet , do a lay bet $120 and it sits there, if a 7 comes out, I win $60, if a 11 comes out I don’t lose my lay bet. If I am not throwing I don’t do a front line bet. I do have working the 6 and 8 $30 each
I've ran hundreds and hundreds of rolls on my home table and i promise you my dice know when I'm laying the 10 or 4 for big lays. The stinking 4,6 comes waaaaay too often
So happy that color up recommended your channel to me. I love that you were using Software to show how these things act over time. I am new to craps, but I have already started writing scrypts!
Welcome aboard! Jump onto our discord at casinogaming.tv ... I'm probably going to start up a wincraps channel there where we can share scripts and tips on using it. It's a killer application
scripts
@@jimklemens5018 scrypts!
I love mixing the don’t pass also followed by a come out bet, it works great on those short rolls when a point number that gets established immediately 7s out. Good timing is everything. I actually like to do a come out bet twice in a row after a don’t pass… This way the 7 stays working in my favor an extra roll, especially when yo happens. Sometimes I even go 3 come outs in a row, just to break even if none of those new point numbers hit before the 7 out, since I would lose the 2 come out bets after the don’t pass, but win both the don’t and the new come out bet on that 4th roll.
John you asked for feedback so her is my 2 cents
This is ok, but one big thing I see missing is the live chat that went with it. The live chat is important because we see things you don’t. You cover only certain options and the chat points out more than that. Yes they can go down rabbit holes or off topic but for the most part chat is giving you and the future viewer good questions or statements that should be addressed.
I would like to make a suggestion that may help you.
Please consider just before you go to your table to some how mark where you leave the chat to go to your table. When you come back we enjoy you taking time to read out loud the comments. Finding a way to know where to go right back quickly picking up the chat let’s everyone hear the important things that you may not have covered.
I feel the chat would only get better and keep on point knowing that your gong to take the time to cover their good pertinent questions, concerns or potential helpful advice.
That's a great point.
The interactive part isn't going away. What I'm eventually going to is to have the live streams done from a different channel on CZcams that's only ever going to be live streams, and they'll live there forever, so the chat will be preserved. Just not on this channel. Maybe ...
But I do like the idea of pausing the chat, which I can do, and then picking it up later and coming back to re-address in a more organized way than scrolling back like I do now!
I love laying like this on the coming out with a don’t pass especially with that hard 10 bet working on the coming out. Sometimes i add a field bet in there too at the same time instead of the yo bet
I have played this system with odds at 25 and won 16 times in a row on the cruise ship. I lost for the first time (240) on a super hot roller on the last cruise, but i had a great run and was up 3300 and have gotten 15 free cruises and have 6 more free ones lined up
You are cool~ and probably THE smartest crap shooter on CZcams. 🎉 I’ve been playing these similar strategies for several years and that’s exactly how it usually turns out as odds turn against you. All it takes is one bad turn to get wiped out.
Btw I’ve written scripts before on my own but never using those visuals. That’s a great software I’m gonna start testing on it.
I really appreciate you saying that. WinCraps is THE BEST
Thanks for going over so many strats for the dark side. Im going to be a darksider for sure.
Good luck! Darkside is a grind, but it's got more chance to win on the regular than hammering the right side. That said, hammering the right side is a hell of a lot more fun!
Awesome side by side simulation. I waffle a lot with hedging against the 7 (I’ll skip the yo hedge unless I feel like donating into the field). This is an interesting visual showing that hedging isn’t great in an extended session.
Yep. Remember that every hedge bet dilutes the bet that it was protecting over time. Its like you double down on the house edge.
Here's what I disagree with. The field. What's gonna happen on the come out? You'll lose twice as much with a 7. Do not play the field guys. Just don't.
That damn field is so streaky. But when it works out from the Don't side it's a double hit for you
@@ProCrapswhat if.
When you have a $30 dont bet and you HOP the 11 for $2.. why not have a $32 dont bet and a HOP the 11 for $2.
You could win some money back when the dont bet wins.
I dont know, just thinking....
@@michaelsumner8223 That's better than a 1:1 hedge for sure.
Thanks for this strategy. I will attempt to try this the next time I play Craps at the casino.
Hedging is cool, if you can eliminate the greed factor, and slow grind, example put a place bet under your don't bets, then martingale the 7 or hop your number. after the 7th roll. Let the 15, or 30 to 1 odds get you paid, you catch a back-to-back hard way hop for 5 bucks you are paid for the day. just like you roll those 5's and 10's back-to-back you would have had a nice day.
I'm not a fan of hedging, but I agree that flat betting dc is your best payout. I lost less then 100 but it took several hrs of play since I was just flat betting the don't. So got my entertainment worth!
No hops bets at my casino. I would $5 on any 7's and $2 on 11's. 7x12=$84. You have 12 rolls to = the $82 hedge on 10 and not lose all of it on one shot. In 12 come out rolls you will probably hit a 10 like you threw 4 10's and maybe more than once. In 12 come out rolls you will definitely hit 7/11. Everytime you hit a 7/11 it resets the money you have to place on 7/11 so you are not bleeding constantly.
That's a fine hedge, but remember how much that degrades the power of your flat bet once set. I weigh that a lot.
Can you bet the pass and don’t pass at same
time.?
I use to hedge on the cruise ships to play longer and get points for free cruises, but now I'm just a flat better
As always great teaching John...Thanks
Thanks, Rick!
Thanks for the show
Instead of hedging on the come out, I like to just bet less, around half of my bet, and then make up the rest in Laying odds after the point is established. I’d be nice to see that rolled out on wincraps.
I've done the comparison, and what happens is that your losses are far greater when you're laying odds, but more frequent when you have a higher flat to get through. They end up just about the same, actually. The differences are noticed during a run of comout winners/losers or point winners/losers.
@@ProCraps If I bet on 100$ come bet and 100$ dont come bet at the same time. Will there be a chance for me to lose???
@Satyanarayana-rd5tx If a 12 rolls, you lose.
Thanks John. Another fine video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Great explanation of the donts.
Thank You For Your Time.
Thanks, EC.
What are your thoughts on viewing this the day after the live stream, but with all the "live stream" stuff edited out?
@@ProCraps Your not going to please everyone..myself…I feel people will get more from your content without the chat….but….for some the Chat is important to them. Viewers come to your channel each morning to see what your live for today is about ..and..socialize..
I will add this……One of your videos had content that I wasn’t interested in. I was already familiar with the video. I left….if the chat was there ..who knows….I might have hung around awhile and socialize….
Hope it helps….
@@EastCoastCraps Thanks for the feedback. What I'm proposing here not an either/or ... but a both.
Basically I'll do the livestreams as I'm doing now, and leaving them up, but from a different CZcams channel. I'll then cherry pick the good parts to make shorter videos out of them to live as "classes" here on the Pro Craps channel.
So, you'll always have both. What I'm trying to do is not completely dilute the Pro Craps channel with hundreds of these hour long shows that are have all sorts of content that's hard to follow if you weren't there during the live show.
@@ProCraps makes all the sense in the world…
I have little interest myself in watching a “ live” the next day so to speak..but..would watch the Craps content the next day….like I did today…..Again your not going to please everyone.
Good luck..
Be Safe…. ….. …….
There are other methods for establishing/hedging the first Don't come number, i.e. avoiding loss on 7 (and partially 11), namely Ricochet and Patrick system. I personally like the Ricochet.
Huge fan of John Patrick and the Ricochet!
Gotta bet the dark side
Very veey interesting....however like most egghead engineers, the stats and math doesnt work in real life. I say that to say, no one is rolling 1000 rolls per session. It would a more true thing to limit the amkunt of times rolled to 50, to simulate an actual week or weekend of play.
True, but over the course of all your play, you do see those 10,000+ rolls, so you have to factor that in, even if a given session is only 60 rolls.
@Pro Craps thanks for dealing with all my type-o's lol!
@@jrr7031 Ha! No problem.
50 rolls is about 45 minutes.
The last time I gambled at Caesars, I stood at the craps table for 8 hours straight.
I probably should watch the entire video before commenting, but I do understand simple math. The DP is a great bet. But the odds bet is the best. The hop bets and one roll yo bets are terrible. They carry a double digit house edge. Don't play them. The direct lay and field bets aren't bad - providing that we are talking about a double/triple field. But they carry about double the house edge that the the DP does. My conclusion is that you give away more money by trying to protect your DP, than you stand to lose in the long run. Look, in this game you gotta pick your poison. Either bet the pass line and take as much odds as your bankroll can afford or bet the don't pass and lay odds accordingly. The odds will increase your volitity, but that is how you offset your come out loses.
When I teach these things I always show all the possible options and I try and work the math as best as I can
Odds on the don’t are great if you can afford them. The add to volatility and profitability big time.
That said, the flat bet, mathematically speaking is the best payout in the house. 1:1 when you are the 69/40 favorite is amazing.
Odds make it better from an edge standpoint but they can also be crushing
@@ProCraps Indeed, they do increase the volatility, but they are the only way to really offset the disadvantage on the come out roll. The best way to do that is with the 0% odds bet. Remember, you want to keep this thing simple.
💯 correct. I will also use odds to gain back come out losers. Don’t tell anyone, but I love the field as a Don’t (or a come) is getting set
@@ProCraps The field is certainly better than the yo, but is more or less on par with the lay. This assumes a double/triple field. A double/double is really crappy (pun intended.) Have you ever seen a triple/triple field. I did about 25 years ago. It was a promotion at a new casino, and only lasted a week. That is a dead even bet.
@patrickdebonis6493 triple/triple? Never seen one. I just like it when we have a field and set that point of 4,9,10 and that beautiful flat bet is pre-paid.
Great Video!! I absolutely love your Videos!! 🙂🙂🙂
Thank you so much!
@Pro Craps You are very welcome my friend!!😀😀😀
Wayland was laying the hundo and placing the 4 and 10 so the seven was in profit mode . Watch again .
He does a hundred various of that style of play. The point I always try and make on the fonts is that nothing beats a travelled flat bet for the ROI. So try and get into that position as often as I can.
And to play the ladders like he does you really need a bankroll big enough to last out the bad spells.
Wow this is awesome!! Would you say this is the best system that you know of???? I will subscribe now!
Depends on the day ... but I really like 2 flat don't bets as much as I like the Hedgeless Horseman (Don't pass and 3 come bets) as a way to feel it out and grind away.
So much for not overthinking it 🤣
LOL!
How about 'doey don't' on the come out? Then odds on the don't pass? A lot of casinos won't allow a doey don't which tells me they fear that strat even though its a 'no win' bet with a 12 being a losing roll, so why fear a 'no win' bet?
The Doey Don't is being phased out at may places now.
I dig the new format. Nice intro and into the weeds we go. Can still get the social fix by watching live or when you set up the other channel. Good to go JC 👍
Right on
Yeah man. Every side of the table has its way to lose. In my worthless opinion if youre hedging this to cover that, then hedge another thing to cover that other hedge, then its best to not play craps or gamble at all. The best bet is always NO BET. Just keeping um real man. But if people likes to gamble their hard earned money, theres no crying in gambling if you lose. Losing money sucks but it happens everyday in the stock market, NFL, NBA, MLB, WNBA, SOCCER, almost everything has a winner or a loser. Its called gambling for a reason. But good video showcasing the dark side of the crap table, playing the DONTʻS & laybets.
Great show brother
Much appreciated.
How do you feel about seeing the 'core' of the show in a more produced format like this, the day after?
Awesome video thanks very accurate
Glad it was helpful. Thanks!
I personally do not like your way of playing craps on this. Your basically a defense player and I'm more of a high power offense to hit and run fast. Put 10 dollars on the Pass Line roll your point number and put 50 on each number across that is 50x 6 so 310 which includes your pass line. Roll the dice and look for 1 safe roll for a $50 gain. Now remove all your 50 bets across and put 10 on each across for a 60 plus your 10 pass is 70 and hit the dice for the hopefully second safe roll and you win 10 so your up 60. Now you are in a free roll situation after just 2 rolls. On the 3rd bet remove all the numbers except the 6 and 8 which you should have 25 on each. You now can roll the dice for just the 3rd time and look to hit the six or eight before the seven. Anytime you hit one of them keep pressing the 25 across the board and when you have a total of 8 safe rolls cash out
I'm playing the long game most of the time. I do have a series of aggressive right side plays that I make, but 9 times out of 10, I've been at the table earning small but consistently, while watching many players win big and then give it all back.
If you have discipline, either method will work. Sadly, most players don't!
Would you bet $50 on the 6?
new to your channel.......really like your analysis....thanks
Awesome, thank you! Let me know if there's ever a specific concept you want me to dive into.
Is it a good idea to call "no action" on a Don’t bet after the point is established?
What type of person would do this?
Not a good idea. You certainly can do it, but the 7 is always the best bet
@@ProCraps Would there be something smarter to do?
@@jimklemens5018 If you really don't like the bet, you can place it.
For example, say you have a $50 Don't Come bet that travels to a 6, and that worries you, you have 3 choices:
1. Pull it down ("no Action") and save the $50
2. Leave it up and risk that $50 to win $50 (you're a favorite and still getting paid even money, which is great)
3. Place the 6 for $48. On a 7, you would win $50 and lose the $48 for a net $2, on a 6, you would lose the $50, but win $56 for a net of $6
We call option #3 "Booking the house" because you can be in a no-lose situation. It's small, but that's way better than pulling the bet down.
I know guys that do this with purple chip: $500 DC travels to the 5 and they place the 5 for $400. Now they guarantee themselves $100 for a 7 or $60 for a 5. You can do that same sort of lock on any number
Can you do a analysis on laying the 4 with max odds, always on
Direct Lay, max bet?
Sorry, direct lay on $25 table.
@@KamakozzieCraps For a direct lay, the max is actually table max, unlike a DC or a DP bet where they limit your odds.
So, on a $25 table with a $1000 max ... you can actually lay the 4 for $2000 (to win $1000, which is table max). Not sure I'd ever play it that way!
But if you want to simulate 3/4/5 odds, on a $25 table, you'd be "allowed" to lay $150 on any number given a flat $25 bet. So, use that as your basis -- 6x what would have been your flat bet.
If you like, I can run a million rolls with only laying the 4 for $150. House edge will get you here in the long run, but depending on when those 7's come you could see some nice spikes.
Yes, can you please. I’ve been laying the 4 only and have done very good. Thank you.
NICE EXPLANATIONS
Thanks!
couldnt you hop the hard 10? maybe my understanding is wrong, thought hopping hard ten paid 30 to 1. 3 bucks and you have some coverage for one roll covers your lay bet
You certainly could do that. Over time it's probably a bleed, but the one or 2 times it saves you, you feel like a hero.
great vid........ hedging is a bleed.........
Yep. But you know what? I know a lot of people that are happy to sit there for hours and hours grinding away at $8 wins over and over and over.
@@ProCraps true......../////////////.you still doing a dge sitdown in the future...........have lookedforward to it since u mentioned it awhile back......................guys da real deal
If you have a don't pass bet and a point is established, then place a don't come bet and another point is established, does it make sense to place another don't come bet? Or is it too many? Is 2 bets going at the same time the optimal amount?
I've found that 2 is the magic number for me. I often get into trouble trying to get that 3rd one set.
Depends on the dice.
Why flat bet instead of placing odds on dont pass and keeping it there?
ROI and Volatility. The odds bets are amazing on both sides because they pay pure. But they're not "FREE" ... you have to dump your rack to get them out there and that can be incendiary to you bankroll. It's like pre-pressing a bet that hasn't hit yet.
THAT KNOCK OFF ON. 10 COULD HAVE BEEN COVERED BY HARD. 10. ANOTHER BLEED . BUT PEOPLE ARE MORE CONCERNED. WITH NEXT ONE ROLL. THAN. NEXT. 10,000
I try and avoid those bleeds. Once in a while you get saved, but over time, it costs you a full bet or more.
Seems to be human nature to take a system/method in gambling, stock market, etc that’s working and not just make minor positive tweaks but complicate it to the point of being almost impossible to use
Very true. And unlike most games in the casino, craps gives us so many dials and switches to tweak, it can get you too wrapped around the axle.
The bleed is not entirely true. If you bank your winnings when a 2, 3, or 11 are rolled, that pays for your hedge.
I typically stack those winnings and try and go for it from the dark side with a free press. Unless I got bit by an earlier 7. Lately I’ve added the 12 and sometimes the field to my come outs. Surprisingly has done quite well.
Hedging on the come out roll really doesn't work in the long run ..your better off betting more after the point is made with laying odds to your don't pass bet...also make the don't come bet ..and lay odds on that as well...
Over time it's a huge bleed. I'm more often than not, nowadays attacking it more with a DP and 3 way Craps to back it up with some juice.
perhaps this is something I'm gonna have to watch multiple times as I thought I had a decent grasp on craps until I watched this... Either I'm thinking it over too hard or the creator was all over the place where he just lost me.
You've got my ear ... so if you have questions that I can clarify, please ask away. I'm on discord too. Use the community link at casinogaming.tv to reach out. It's way easier and more real-time than the comment threads on the videos!
Great tutorial. Wish you could've edited the video and cutout all your errors
Remember that most videos here are snippets from our daily podcast. I do make dealing errors from time to time, of course, that makes it more "real" even if it's a bit comical sometimes. 90% of what I do is a single take, very raw. I like to think (at least I hope) that it makes it more approachable.
I think you should factor in the times the hedge saves you. And it will.
It does, but the bleed is pretty real. Especially on hedging the 7, that's a losing battle. I could be convinced on the Yo, though.
All hedges have a house edge that is higher than the house edge on a Don't bet. Therefore, it will bleed you dry.
I’d hedge w/ the yo on a don’t pass of $50 or more
There's definitely a point at which the Yo comes into play.
Why not bet on the horn on the come out?
Over time, it's too big of a bleed to be worth it. But it can feel pretty good when you get the double wins or get saved on the 11
Is it really the hedge or the strategy being used that's sinking you? Instead of looking at the hedge as a protection for the DP bet, look at it as an attack to use that come out 7 and win. Instead of using the 4/10 (in which you have to put out 2 to 1) use the 5/9 (in which you deal with a 3 to 2 ratio - just feels less painful to loose $75 then $100 trying to win $50). You know that the hedged number is going to get hit, just seems like the 4/10 cost becomes more of a bankroll factor overtime when the hedged number gets hit). If you look at making the hedge win 2 units to cover the 1 unit on the DP bet, you should not see a "loss" because of the hedge (the 5/9 has less chance to roll then a 7) - you may loose your ass with whatever strategy you decide to use after the point is established, but I don't think it is the hedge loosing the money. So run your program to test this just against the come out (no other strategies after a point is established ... How many times did the hedged bet win and get your DP bet active vs loosing the hedge (should be pretty close to the ratio of seeing the hedged number vs a 7 in which the 7 should show a net plus by the end of the sampling period. Would be interesting to see those numbers.
That's a great test sequence to run.
I did an analysis once on just the don't and the pass line and basically did one player just doing a flat line bet and no hedge, one player hedging for the minimum, and one player power hedging, where the hedges would show a profit to see the difference on the same roll sequences.
I need to dig those trials up and re-run but with some better reporting
The more odds you lay the lower your ROI. You have the House against the wall why give that percentage back to the casino? There is one exception to lay odds to protect your DC bet then it is time to "Hedge" your Don't bets. Aka "Casino Math ( House edge) VS Real Math ( ROI $$$)" The Don't side has the best odds ( yes the best odds) for Dice setters and less than 2% of players know what or how to use those dice sets. You can win 200% 300 % 400 % on just one roll with the seven. We love the Don't side when the table is cold or choppy which is 48%-52% of the time. Just saying---- Good show!
Forgetting to take your losses on the YO hedge lol
Yeah, I forget some of the details when I'm self-dealing. Sometimes, I just go too fast!
wouldlove tosee chart 25 dp 3x4x5 lay full odds with one 25 dc lay full odds........roll until conclusion with no hedgeing..............that is alot more like wizard of odds recommended than what u ran..............just sayin ,,,,,,,,,nice job though
I'm doing that one today.
Don't Pass with Full Odds + DC with full odds
vs
Don't Pass with Full Odds + 3 DC with full odds
I have a sense that too many DC bets will cause some pain.
@@ProCraps loving the series.....too much win craps bashing.....why? we're lucky to have it...........cmon people get real........
@@ProCraps today? thnx
@@drdontpassone8164 I ran that exact strategy in Win Craps yesterday (Wednesday). The comparisons were:
Flat DB
vs
Flat DP + Flat DC
vs
DP w/Max Odds
vs
DP w/Max Odds + 1 DC w/Max Odds
I chopped the win craps part of it off for the re-post that's coming later today but here's the original and full broadcast from yesterday: czcams.com/video/7WgV5x-V_Fw/video.html
If you want anything else setup and run side by side, let me know.
@@ProCraps will look for win craps graphs on dpmax odds and dpdcwith max odds..this is on thaT VID? THAT later will be posted ?THNX A BUNCH
Let’s keep it simple but…here’s 20 options. Lol
Well, there's the basic and simple concept, but the great thing about craps is all the offshoots and options you can create. It's why I love the game so much.
Way too much talking Man. Get to it,
I would be of the opinion that winning on the 2 and 12 on the comeout would even out in the long run on losing on the 7 and 11 ???
No, you're behind it pretty good. On a 36 outcome average, you'll lose on the 7+11 8 times and only win on the 2+3 3 times. That's a pretty big deficit. But you do have a 60% win expectation after that.
Thank you for that, i assumed it would cancel each other out in the long run,
You don't win on a comeout 12.