Persuasion 2022 ¦ What went wrong with the Netflix adaptation of Jane Austen's Persuasion?
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2022
- In this video, I unpack the many problems with Netflix' recent adaptation of Jane Austen's Persuasion.
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What did you think of this train wreck? :P
I watched the movie and hated the way they changed Anne's character. I don't understand why they made her seem so clumsy and immature. I also did not care for the modern language it felt very out of place. The book is so much better!
Good attempt. But I’ve generally given up on most TV/Movie adaptations of fan favourite books. Like Amazon Prime and the Wheel of Time… 😡
How would one contact you about a collaboration sometime?
What the hell is my reaction. What a colossal mess.
I didn't watch it. I saw the scene in which Louisa falls. It's on YT. That's pivotal scene of the novel, and they made it so bland! There is no tension, no chaos, almost no danger. The best jump scene for me was in 1995 movie, very dramatic and underlining the danger and hight (these steps!). That's very literal adaptation, of course. But now, in 2022 they did it like there was no danger at all, and no tension at all, I have no idea who directed that, but after watching it, I decided against watching the movie.
Great analysis! I found this movie confusing, cringey, and the second-hand embarrassment was real. The changes they made didn't make any sense. No chemistry between Anne and Wentworth, their interactions were shallow and off, and I didn't feel invested in their relationship at all. The 4th wall breaking and the "telling instead of showing" was so frustrating! It took me right out of the film. Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel and my favorite Persuasion adaptation is the 1995 version with Amanda Root.
Ellie Dashwood described it, on her CZcams channel, as changing the deep culture, without changing the surface culture. So, they changed all of the morals and social beliefs, without changing how those changes affects the world we're presented with. The two clashed, and it made absolutely zero sense.
Your suggestion about a modern retelling with the conflict of young marriage vs career focus is actually so interesting and now I wish they went that route themselves
Apparently there is a film with that premise! But apparently its not the best. :p
Also regarding Lady Russell it's not just that she travels to the continent to find boytoys it's that she is travelling to the WAR TORN continent to find her boytoys.
for these scriptwriters, I don't think they even remember that there was a war.
😂 😂😂🤦♀️
My biggest pet peeve about this adaptation is the climax scene with the letter, which hangs on Wentworth's listening on the conversation between Anne and Harville. For the life of me I cannot understand why they decided to take out Harville's wonderful lines about a sailor's feeling when he looks forward to seeing his wife and children after months at sea. It's such a beautiful conversation with both sides making good points and presenting their own lived experience. In the movie he just says: I'm not going to argue with you. In which case Anne continuing to make her point, which is lifted directly from the book, doesn't even make much sense, it's almost a non-sequitur. Why, why, WHY? It feels a bit like they didn't want to present Harville as having any ability to have subtle feelings, just so Anne can look deeper in comparison and dominate the conversation more than she does in the book.
Yeah this is one of the most important scenes and it was just bouldered over. I think my favourite part of the novel is how in this scene, Austen exposes how men and women have a tendency to think a little too harshly of each other. The purpose of the conversation is that they both learn to be less like that. But unfortunately, I guess an egalitarian message that acknowledges the weaknesses and strengths of men and women is too much for modern audiences to bear! :P
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall yes, god forbid we make a nuanced point. Boomer producers just know that us modern woke audiences (especially us pesky feminists!) can't take multi-dimensional stories and characters! When I see a well-constructed, sensitive and sympathetic male character who at the same time stays true to his times, I get so angry that I just need to burn an extra bra! ;-)
EDIT: in light of the comment below, I'd like to clarify that I mean "boomer" in the metaphorical sense of a person who has a somewhat skewed perception of younger people and modern times (regardless of their own age; I know many people in their 40's that I'd call boomers! :-) ). I don't mean to say that every older person is a boomer in this sense, because of course that wouldn't be true, you get a mixed bag in every generation! :-)
@@AW-uv3cb Don’t blame baby boomers for this messed up adaptation of Jane Austen’s Persuasion. I am sick and tired of younger generations passing off all their inadequacies to our generation. How do you know the director, script writer, and producer weren’t millennials or younger? I grew up in the 70’s and I am sorry everything artistic was better. Plus we were exposed to music, movies, and television shows from earlier time periods. Today’s generation take most their references from their own generation. Your social media obsession make you narrow minded, closed off, and dumb. If you ask most younger people if they are familiar with Billie Holiday the jazz singer they would say who is he. I love Jane Austen, and I am not surprised that this adaptation was this poor. It is a general lack of respect for what came before and the disregard of the author’s voice and perspective from that time period. I hated the 2005 adaptation of Pride and Prejudice because of the same modernization of Austen’s impeccable dialogue. A generation that thrives on the immediacy of everything can’t possibly appreciate the subtlety of a developing plot, the beauty of dialogue and dialect, and the nuance of characters. So what you have is a boiler plate modern female character type being forced on Jane Austen’s Ann Elliott because heaven forbid you have a character who is insecure and unsure. Thus you undermine Ann Elliot’s quiet strength that develops as she makes her way back to the arms of the man she loves. I wish younger generations would leave the classics alone, and stick to modern creations like Bridgerton. I know that is hard because everything this generation produces especially in movies is either a sequel or reboot. Take responsibility for your own crap kiddos. 🤨🤨🤨🤨.
@@avalangrin4904 the author of the script of this movie is an 80-year-old man and definitely seems to have a skewed perception of what younger women are like these days, so I thought the boomer label was justified (many, if not most, of the people complaining about the shallowness and the lack of subtlety in this adaptation ARE, in fact, young women, so laying the blame for this movie at their door and generalising them as incapable of appreciating subtle dialogue and characterisation seems unwarranted).
Having said that, I'd like to clarify my comment though: I don't think that every older person is a boomer in the metaphorical sense. For me a boomer is a specific type of a person (who thinks that "young people these days blah blah blah" etc., regardless of their own age, I've known many a younger boomerish person!) - and this is how I meant it here. Putting down a whole generation of people is definitely not okay and I also find it annoying when older people do it to us millennials and gen-Z's, so I do apologise for not making that clear in my original comment, that was careless of me.
@@AW-uv3cb What is a “wh?” I was reacting to the “boomer” comment. I agree it is not fair to generalize.
I absolutely hated this movie, it was so cringey. You made some excellent points on Lady Russell. I though they made her too modern, but you explained what didn't work with her so well. Anne is a drunkard, and Wentworth, was he even in this movie? I didn't even notice him, I though the actor was cast as Anne's pet who got lost a few years back and now he's back home.
One of the things that also bothered me was that they completely erased the character of Mrs. Smith. She was instrumental for discovering Mr. Elliot's scheme. In this movie he just says he's here because he doesn't want Anne's father to marry and have a son, in which case he'd lose his inheritance. The whole point of that part of the story is that Anne is not aware of his motivations.
I like both, the faithful adaptations, as well as modern, if it's done right. Have you seen Clueless? It's a great adaptation of Emma.
And yes, Mary was the only character that was well cast and made sense.
It was a shame that they cut Mrs Smith. I can see why it might have been cut in the context of a film, but the problem was they didn't choose to replace her role in the story with anything meaningful other than Ann bumping into Mr Eliot smooching the accomplice.
I've not seen Clueless, but I will get round to it one day, thanks for the recommendation.
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall For me, Mrs. Smith (nee Hamilton) was much more important to the story than just being and Information Dump on Mr. Elliot.
1) She was an old school friend of Anne's, shortly after Lady Elliot died, and helped Anne get through her grief. Just as Lady Russell is a surrogate mother to Anne, Mrs. Smith is a surrogate sister (lord knows, she's not gotten emotional support from Elizabeth or Mary).
2) When Anne goes against her father's wishes and keeps her appointment with Mrs. Smith instead of calling on Lady Dalrymple, that's a sign that Anne has actually grown as a person, and is no longer so easily persuaded, and
3) She adds a bit of dramatic tension because of her history with Mr. Elliot; if Anne does marry her cousin, she will never be able to see her old friend again. And *that* would have been a far more personally sad ending for Anne even than remaining unmarried.
The fact that she does marry Captain Wentworth, and he is able to use his clout and connections to save her friend's fortune (and thus, her friendship), is a doubly happy ending.
spot on about wentworth. totally forgettable. he looked like a confused frog most of the time
This is a good example of a story that hits all the major plot points and yet wildly fails to understand the source material. It’s the spirit of the book they need to get right, not necessarily every detail.
I like that idea of getting "the spirit" of the story right. For me, that is perhaps the most important part when it comes to adaptations, but it's probably one of the hardest too.
The main problem is the writers did not understand Anne Elliot. Or they just thought the people wanted an Elizabeth Bennet. The comments about her family comes off as snobbish. I agree, just make it modern like they did with Bridget Jones and Clueless.
Fun fact! There is a “story telling” adaptation version of Persuasion. It’s called “modern persuasion” (yeah…not a great title, but whatever).
The thing that separates them is that he’s got an online startup, and her mom’s friend encourages her to pursue higher education and her own career instead (because startups don’t always work). It made sense for a modern story. The acting is 😬, and some of the dialogue isn’t the greatest, but the modern story adjustments make sense.
It was easier to watch than this train wreck of a film. By making Anne a “girl boss”, it makes it unbelievable that she could be persuaded out of anything. Wentworth even says something like “you’ve never had problems expressing your opinions”! If that’s true, buddy, than what is the plot of this story?!
I don’t know that I’ve ever hated a film this much…well, I can think of one, but this was a very close second.
There's another modern retelling I read and really liked, where Wentworth is an actor asking a Musician!Anne to move to LA with him. Her advisor, Lady Russell, disapproves and they break up. Also makes sense!
And a third where they're both skaters and Lady Russell (Anne's coach and close friend of her mother), persuades Anne that she should ditch Wentworth and go into singles skating (since she notices that they have a very intense relationship and is scared it might affect their work). Anne does so and Wentworth goes into ice hockey. Again, makes sense!
This Netflix adaptation was. I don't even know.
Agreed.
I can't see any reason why they wouldn't have married back then except maybe Wentworth was going back to sea, saw this b was cray cray and didn't put a ring on it.
But somehow he's convinced himself she's the one that got away and is now back and has forgotten why they're not together and blames her.
this movie was absoutely dreadful. I agree with all of your points. But bothered me the most is that they just didn't capture the essence of Anne or the story. All the pain and tragedy were missing. There was no chemistry between the main characters. Costumes and hair sucked. Even if I'd never read the book (or seen the superior 1995 and 2007 adaptations) this would not be a good movie. there was no real payoff at the end. it was just all wrong. i knew it would be bad from the trailer but i was bored and curious. ugh what a waste of time! i came onto youtube to find others who feel like me and found your video!
I couldn't make it past the dinner scene where she blurted out she was Mary's husband's first choice. 🤦♀️
I’m baffled how they could drain every ounce of charm from a movie that could have been a fun interpretation.
I like your points about Wentworth's character. In the novel, he's very interesting as a match for Anne, because while Anne is somewhat meek and quiet, Wentworth is really the opposite of that. He's charming, witty, and kind of the life of the party, not in an obnoxious way, but people gravitate to him and want to hear his stories and jokes. And really, I think it's meant to be an opposites attract situation (Austen was very fond of that trope), where you can imagine that when he and Anne met, he kind of brought her out of her shell a bit and likewise, he was impressed with her dignity and quiet intelligence. Instead, the film just makes him kind of a drag and it's impossible to see what these two people actually liked about each other.
This movie was all over the place. I didn't care for it at all and I really tried to keep an open mind. I don't mind adaptations that make changes to fit the screen, appeal to a broader audience, even see a character through a slightly different lens but remain set in the time period, i.e. 2005 Pride and Prejudice, 2020 Emma, etc. I also don't mind adaptations that change large parts of the source material to make a modern day retake, i.e. Bridget Jones Diary, Clueless, etc. However it's the toeing of both lines and the inability to even understand the main crux of the novel that ruins this film. This Anne Elliot was so out of character she was almost a foil of the novel's Anne Elliot. And because her character is changed into a sassy, outspoken character it is hard to believe she was ever persuaded to give up Wentworth to begin with. It's even harder to believe once they meet back up she isn't able to express herself to him. Wentworth likewise doesn't seem jilted as he is in a large chunk of the book rather he is a simpering, lovesick puppy the majority of this film. It just doesn't work, none of it. Forget the modernization, the fourth wall breaking, etc and you still have a adaptation that doesn't work on even the most basic of levels.
Persuasion is my favourite Austin novel and they butchered it. Anne Elliott is a much more realistic character to me than Elizabeth Bennett. Jane Austin was just as subversive as Charles Dickens for her time. Without a good context it’s hard to see that.
I don't think I've ever seen Dakota Johnson in a movie I liked, but I really feel she could have made a good Anne. So much wasted potential. What a shame.
Have you watched the remake of Suspiria? It's a pretty dark cult horror film but she was tremendous in it, going toe to toe with Tida Swinton no less!
As much as I love Dakota, I do not think she is a face I would like to see in any period drama. I heard someone say that she has a face that knows what e-mail is, and I agree with that😂
My thoughts exactly
She was in sus remake a great movie with allot of direction if im correct but most her movies she lands not highly..oddly I didn't find her terrible in this is think the direction and script were horrible.
She is too pretty and young-looking to be Anne. I also can't remember a movie I liked her in.
Please watch Persuasion 1995. It's perfection! At keast we Persuasion fans have that.
I definitely will do. I've been watching adaptions as I've gone along, so it will be good to watch a good one!
I agree with you and would add that they had all their cards on the table from the beginning...with everything. Here they had Mr Elliot behave poorly from the get-go, whereas in the book he comes off very well at first and Anne actually thinks well of him. It’s the only way he can be regarded as a true threat to Wentworth getting Anne back. So they ruin that. They ruin the dynamic tension between Ww & AE, it is utterly gone. They even have Louisa in on the history between these two, actually giving AE the opportunity to dissuade her from pursuing him rather than Ww’s interest in L slowly revealed, wounding AE to the core, L blissfully unaware such that we cannot hate her.
L is also dressed like an ensemble member of Les Miserables, rather than as a youthful beauty at the height of her power, from a well to do family, etc. Somehow AE gets the youthful silhouettes, colors, and loads of makeup (even in bed!) but poor L looks like a haggard beggar. That actress is lovely, it’s not her fault. There is no lifeblood left in this movie, apart from Mary’s petulance, so it falls flat. I have never been less intrigued by a romantic hero and Ww is seriously the stuff of romantic dreams. Where is his liveliness? His intellect? His leadership? His triumphant success? He comes off like the shlumpy ne’er do well who could only dream of winning the lady fair EVER. Where is his soldierly posture? His physical strength? Why is he unshaven and unkempt in every scene? This from the guy who’s trying to make the Elliott’s think, “How do you like me now? Eat your heart out!”
Bottom line- movies, even TV shows, and NOVELS are meant to show, not tell. This is what Austen does so well. Who on earth thinks they can do it better? A very short list, but these fools who wrote and directed this movie fancied themselves clever enough to toss one of the greatest examples of English literature into the bin in favor of a structureless, flavorless soup with 1/2 cup of whole peppercorns thrown on top in the name of making it bold. My biggest complaint is that they dared to call it the exact same name. The unmitigated gall!
Completely agree with your comments! I didn't talk about Mr Eliot, but that whole storyline was a complete disappointment. Not only was he obviously a bad guy in the film, but it was resolved in such a pithy way as well. It made it very pointless since you knew they were never getting together.
I love what you said about Captain Wentworth. This captain was not worth anything! Completely bland and generic, and not engaging at all to watch.
I think ultimately they just wanted to make money off the Austen name, and that's the only reason they called it Persuasion. It's a shame that we seem to be in a time where most adaptations of books are like this, which is sad because companies generally have way more money to put in to these things. The phrase "more money than sense" often comes to mind though!
"Why is he unshaven and unkempt in every scene? This from the guy who’s trying to make the Elliots think, “How do you like me now? Eat your heart out!”
Thank you for finally pinning down what bothered me about Wentworth in every scene I saw him in (in the trailer, I didn't watch the movie) - why does he look like he just fell out of bed in every scene? What's with the designer stubble, which was so not a thing in the Regency? Men were clean shaven - sailors might have been allowed beards at sea, but Wentworth wasn't at sea anymore!
I've only recently watched the 1995 Persuasion, but wow, Ciaran Hinds is killing it there! When he comes shooting with Musgrave, he's looking dressed up to the nines in civvies; then, when he comes to dinner, he's dazzling in his Naval uniform (one would think he's rubbing it in, but the Admiral is in uniform too, lol).
I read one review which said that someone involved in the production boasted that they'd never read the book - it really shows. Wentworth is a CAPTAIN, which means he's been awarded a SHIP - he isn't supposed to be pathetic and lovelorn on the outside - not only that, he's now rich! His brother in law is an Admiral who's just leased the home of the family for whom, eight years ago, he wasn't good enough! There is no bigger burn than this in Austen's books!
@@gwenivercall I totally agree, he's supposed to be rich, handsome and desirable. He would have been dressing in the latest fashions and taking great care in his personal appearance as that was the mark of a very rich man in Regency times.
The truly heroic is totally lost in Anne's character in this adaptation.
The original story is somewhat reminiscent of Cinderella, a woman who stands in the shadows and who manages to maintain her inner dignity and poise despite receiving the message from those around her that she is irrelevant and unimportant.
A strange idea of the producers to want to "correct" the story of an author of Jane Austen's caliber.
You're dead on. I think my main issue with these attempts to "correct" the classics (aside from it's moralising) is that the people who do it are just not strong enough storytellers to tell a compelling tale. They think you can just take out bits you don't like, replace them with things they like, and the story will still make sense. What they miss is that great artists are meticulous and everything in a good story is there for a reason. So when you start playing pick and mix with these works it just falls flat. Oh well, at least there are some good adaptations to watch out there!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Spot on
Yes, Anne Elliot is very much a Cinderella with less abuse only because Anne's family would rather being doing something else than pick on Anne.
It was just an awful movie. It should never have been called Persuasion. The only way to enjoy his movie, if possible, is to know nothing about the book at all. It seems that the film makers decided not to read it. They turned a dignified novel into a smutty, silly film with a jerk as the main character.
I don't think it was smutty
I like your idea about modernizing the story, I would like to see it on-screen.
Why do filmmakers do this? Changing Anne’s character fundamentally changes the whole point of the story! I consider myself a purist (I have a T-shirt that says “The Book was Better.”), but I also love when stories are updated and modernized (Clueless & Bridget Jones). But even in a modern setting, changing the dynamic so dramatically between Anne & Wentworth changes everything about the story. Adaptation in name only at that point.
The 1995 adaptation version did it best in my opinion. The way Anne clutches her chair the first time she meets Wentforth after their separation or when he recommends to his sister that Anne ride in the carriage speaks volumes. They still love each other, they care, but propriety and social pressures prevent them from speaking. It’s the tragedy and the ultimate catharsis at the end when they FINALLY open their hearts to each other.
I was so excited to watch this adaptation, but I’ve decided to give it a hard pass.
The changing of the characters Race was just ridiculous and not warranted.
I would have totally liked the movie if they hadn't made Anne immature and rude, even vulgar, and drunk (not Dakota's fault, unless it was her idea, which I doubt). Anne blurting out in front of everybody at the dinner table that Charles first wanted to marry her and not her sister - that kind of ruined the whole thing for me. It's just bad behaviour. Even today
Also the whole persuasion theme was ruined by Wentworth stating that Anne never had a problem speaking her mind, as you pointed out, as well. Wasn't that Anne's main problem - the reason for the breakup and for the long enstrangement and misunderstandings afterwards - in a nutshell?
Love your breakdown!! Many reviews have made similar points, but you managed to do so in such a clear and eloquent way. I also appreciate your ideas of how this could have worked as a modern movie with the career minded Anne… now I want to see THAT movie! It could have been SO much better than this odd mix that is exactly as you said - the worst of both worlds.
You present a well thought out and articulate critique. Thank you for your amazing insights.
Thank you very much! :)
I enjoyed your commentary very much. I think you discussed all the many problems with the film of which I firmly agree, especially all the inconsistencies.
Thank you, glad you liked the video!
I haven' seen this version, and am unlikely too.
What I did want to comment on was about the lack of communication between Anne and Wentworth. Part of their problem was a fear of rejection. Wentworth has been slighted once and is both desperate to know Anne's current feelings but also fearful of a negative response. Anne similarly is convinced that Wentworth must as least resent, if not hate her for her earlier behaviour. Both skirt around the topic, but can't commit to an open discussion until they know what the response will be. This is a problem that could work well in an updated adaptation. Recent events surrounding sexual harassment could also make a modern Wentworth hesitant to suggest romance to a woman who has already rejected him once.
That's an interesting idea to modernize Wentworth's storyline, I like it :)
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Thanks!
Oh God, Have I hated this story, but I've to admit, I liked your take on Lady Russel. This film is just a mess, it just doesn't get the story at all! And it is my favourite Austen book. And I agree with you, it's not on the actors themselves, it was the script. They got Anne wrong, they got Wentworth ( Oh God I don't even like to think about it) all wrong. Anyways, I'll just erase it from my mind. 2007 and 1995 versions look perfect in perspective (=/)
I think you're too kind with that 💩.
I have never seen such a bad writing, such a bad adaptation. What on earth did they think they were doing ? What crossed in their mind ??
I can't understand. And you explain very well the main problem : the stupid choices they made (or didn't) between faithful and "modern". Yuki ! 🤮
It’s interesting to hear you thought that Wentworth was a love sick puppy and Anne and Wentworth looked like they were in love the whole time (and that’s a plot problem). I agree the movie is a fail and the plot made no sense. But one of my huger problems I had is that I sensed almost no love between the two until the very end when Wentworth showed some pining. I just couldn’t see anything between the two characters. Mostly because Anne was such an unlikeable character in this adaptation and I didn’t buy she had any real feelings for Wentworth at all despite the narration that kept telling us she did. And he was a dull dishrag so it was even harder to accept that she was supposed to be so in love with him. Even at the end when they got together, Anne smirked as if to say “I won” and that was the depth of her feeling about it.
As bad as this rendition was, the portrayal of the Captain Wentworth character made it unbearable for me to watch. They gave Anne the bottle, but it was Wentworth who showed up looking hungover and disheveled trying to have normal conversations.
How about the moment when Wentworth tells Anne that, when he's got his ship in the heat of battle and starts feeling lost, he just wonders to himself, What would Anne Elliott do? I was flabberghasted by this breathtakingly ignorant piece of writing. And even if I could accept such a whopper as being somehow plausible, there is no romantic benefit to be gained from this hero emasculating himself before this heroine. That's when I wondered, "My god, have they flipped the roles? Is it Anne who has the (rude & vulgar) "charisma" and power in the relationship, and poor Wentworth who is shy and desperately watching and (inside the relationship) dependent? Is that what is going on, here?" Or maybe it was just another isolated incident of MegaCringe moments to add to the heap. Anyway, I enjoyed this well organized and thoughtful commentary--very cathartic listening experience. :)
The main problem with Netflix's Persuasion is that it's not Jane Austen's Persuasion. I don't mind modernising or interpretations but they just failed. They misunderstood Anne and therefore misunderstood the entire plot.
this is such a great, thorough and fair review. great work
Thank you very much!
Great review, so well explained! Been very much enjoying your videos on Jane Austen and classics generally
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the videos. :)
Clueless was a really good modern retelling of Emma
I agree this film was a mess that didn't know what it wanted to be or say.
What went wrong? Everything.
i really wish they'd stayed faithful to the book for this version. or else made a completely modern version, or something like what Clueless is. i despised this mess and only lasted about ten minutes into it before i had to stop watching. i love Dakota Johnson but i would love to have seen her play Anne as she was written by Jane. i went back to the 1995 version after seeing this garbage and now i'm on CZcams watching all the videos of people critiquing it. 😁
CZcams is flooded with negative reviews of this film, but yours is by far the best of all of them!.
The problem here is that it's neiver a true adaptation nor a retelling but a hybrid of both,
However I put logic aside, opened my mind and I enjoyed it (mainly on the visual side :) Birdy's song hit me and I can't get it out of my head. :)
I can also partly enjoy it. When I forget what they ruined with this film , particularly the shock of the first 30 minutes. And when I don't think of this film as Austen's Persuasion. Song was great.
Hi, new on your channel and I can say I loved your video. You expressed very well all the reasons I disliked this new adaptation and after I read some interviews of the director and other people involved in the making of this movie I came to the conclusion that or she never read the book (and any books of Austen), only read the synopsis or that she didn't understand any line she read, because this book simply destroy Anne Elliot haha Again, great video!
Thanks I'm glad you liked the video. :)
I understand all the arguments here, but I always try to find something I like in all dramatization of Miss Austen’s work
Well said!
No matter what route you take: faithful or modernised you need to find the core of the story and characters and everything else is secondary. The protagonist of this story is the focus, so betraying the core of her character is where everything else is falling apart. Ann is what gives the story the sense. Because of who she is the story unfolds as it does.
Love your review. I saw the preview and decided against watching it mainly because of how they stripped Anne's true personality which stripped her of her character arc along with it. That and the fourth wall - I hated it!
So nobody has the balls to talk about race... When you have a story set in a time when all or most of the characters would have been the same race and you make half the characters a different one, that should be a flaw that matters. Nothing racist about pointing that out.
Good point. Though I suppose that since they already had so many anachronisms, that one may have been the least jarring. Yet another reason why they should have just set it in the modern day.
So, while not dealing with this videos subject, I need to ask: any thoughts on AMC's latest trailer for Interview With The Vampire? I like how you discussed Persuasion and am keen to know how you feel about the most recent Rice trailer if you feel like giving a review for it or if you will have thoughts when the series drops.
I'm not sure to be honest. The trailer didn't look awful, but I'm not especially enamoured by the changes. I think for me what I enjoy is about books are the stories, so the greater the changes in an adaptation the less inclined I am. Unless there is something especially interesting in the changes which, from the trailer I didn't think so personally. But it's only a trailer so who knows?
I couldn’t agree more with this. I noticed you also have a copy of the Gormenghast trilogy, I love Mervyn Peake. Will you be doing a review on the trilogy? I’d love to hear what you think! 🤓
I will have to reread them first but I think a reread isn't too far off in the future!
My fave Austen tbh. Saw another review & stayed away. Loved your take, still def not bothering. sounds crap for sure. Yes, it’s a tough interesting dark story, and shouldn’t be disrespected. Anne is the sweetest, nicest person. The 1995 version was everything, period.
I thank you 😄I have not seen the movie, I never wanted one of my favourite books to be treated so badly. And after listening to this I know I made the right decision to never see it 😄
Normally I would say it's always worth watching for yourself. In this case... absolutely not!
I would say that this film would be good if one prepares themselves not to think while watching it - the absurdities wouldn't be hopefully so palpable, plus they directly tell the audience everything anyway,... I only liked the scenery that was quite nice. Otherwise, it's shame to Jane Austen in my opinion, because they completely destroyed the message of the story with their changes.... After reading the novel, I knew right away why Austen chose this theme and the nuances with it, wonderfully expressed by Luisa's incident. After watching the film, I don't know why the title Persuasion is even there....
I liked your points about the characterisation and agree, the creators either didn't understand these characters or tried to make their own without succeeding to give them any essence.
🦇🌹This is off topic but speaking of series, are you planning on watching "Interview with the Vampire " the AMC version. I just checked out the trailer and I'm optimistic. I'm not put off by the changes at all, very excited !
I find it hard to be optimistic about any adaptation of a book these days. I'll probably watch it just to see. At least the trailer didn't fill me with dread like many other adaptations lately, so it's progress!
I totally agree with you I didn’t like the movie at all it was just terrible and disappointing ☹️☹️
1995 version is very faithful.
I'll have to take a look sometime!
I think you could make it work in a modern setting without changing the fundamentals. I mean, keeping a household is expensive and you don't want to get married with someone who doesn't seem to be reliable or capable to pull their own weight. So instead of a matter of class, it could be something in the lines of "hey, you know the bad reputation soldiers and sailors have, are you sure you want to commit? maybe you should check other options first". But then, time passes and she realises she still loves him and he turned out to be a very well established man, either navy or army, instead of yet-another-drunken-sailor. But they now have each their own stuff going on, they don't have the time or opportunity to actually discuss things. Add details and secondary characters to the mix.
You could even throw in some social media stuff, like they see each others' seemingly happy lives and assume there's no point in having this conversation. I don't know... I'm sure someone who actually read Jane Austen could figure this out without butchering the story or the characters in the process.
Exactly there are so many great options to make it work really well. Just takes a little bit of thought! :p
Have you seen the movie "Modern Persuasion?" It is written the way you are describing. I enjoyed it but I understand some do not.
Interesting, no I haven't but would be keen to!
I just couldn't bear to hear him say "adaption" rather than "adaptation" one more time!
Adaption - Variable Noun - Adaption means the same as adaptation.
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/adaption
Learn your lingo lovey! 😜
The used Bridget Jones as Anne
I really love the Netflix's adaptation.
Excuse me I didn't click on this video to fall in love
I actually really want to see the modernised version of Persuasion you suggest. Sounds like a great idea! (Of course the book sequel to Bridget Jones's Diary has elements of Persuasion in it! :-) )
Yeah I think it could work really well. It would just need to take into account the differences in time and place.
I was just about to comment "Even the book of Edge of Reason is a more faithful adaptation of Persuasion than the Netflix train-wreck!" Of course the Edge of Reason film changes a fair bit, but THAT book/film comparison is not particularly going to lead to a point about Persuasion.
A modern re-telling of Persuasion would work really well. Joshua's suggestions were great. Think it over - we have a person whose core is integrity and consideration for others, living in a shallow, status focused world, being gaslit by her family to suit their own purposes, gradually realising she can't keep everyone happy and needs to go with her own values - it transplants to the social media/Kardashian era almost too easily
Thank you for commenting about The Edge of Reason. I haven't seen anyone else mention it in the analysis of the Netflix Persuasion... I was starting to doubt myself!
@@madamekate7137 It's been a good while since I read Edge of Reason, but a parallel I can remember is that Rebecca, Bridget's love rival, falls in love with Giles Benwick over self-help books. No doubt there are more.
I don't know if they would get together after just that conversation on the beach. Have you never had an awkward person interested in you? you get several miscommunication type conversations. some people are their own worst stumbling blocks even in a more free society.
The problem as I see it is they are not awkward people in the film. I think Anne was presented as way too assured, and it was way too obvious in the direction of the characters that they were still in love with each other in that scene. So to me it made no sense at all that they wouldn't just realise, along with the audience, that they still love each other. Miscommunication is a thing sure, but you have to make it make sense with the characters and situation, otherwise it's just lazy writing.
YES i would've ate up a modern set Persuasion. i think it's actually overdue for persuasion and i think it's ripe for that kind of adaptation. it could've been so great. i'm very disappointed in how they ruined it and now they might not do anymore Jane Austen adaptations because of it not doing well on netflix. like damn
I’m curious about something. I haven’t seen this, but from the footage that I have seen the movie comes off as if the writers were trying to get the demographic of people that were fans of Fleabag into Persuasion. However the footage looks like they took aspects of both fleabag and the source material, but just used them on a superficial level (even down to Fleabag’s rabbit). It also looks like every anachronistic method that they are using have been put in place to infantilize the audience. As if they didn’t trust them to understand Persuasion or Jane Austin beyond her most well known characters. In the end it looks like they didn’t understand Persuasion, Jane Austen or Fleabag for that matter. Does it come off that way when you watch the actual movie?
i stopped it took a deep breath decided " this is not persuasion but an episode of fleabag" and continued viewing the movie not impressed
All it is is an attempt to cash in on Jane Austen's name and the title of the book.
As regards retelling of classics I was pleasantly surprised by Val Macdermid (yes her!) Northanger Abbey. A clever 21st Century update that remains true to the original characters. Of course the Netflix Persuasion was Pants. Such a travesty of a wonderful novel actually makes me angry.
I'll have to take a look at that adaptation of Northanger, thanks!
I was prepared to dislike this movie. I certainly didn't like the trailer. But the longer I watched it, the more I realized that I was enjoying it. Yes, there were aspects of this film that annoyed me to no end. But those flaws could not dispel my positive feelings for this movie. And then it had occurred to me that I have similar feelings about the other "Persuasion" adaptations. Well, the other two movie adaptations. Both the 1995 and 2007 movies had their own share of flaws that really annoyed me. But I still like both of them as much as I like this 2022 adaptation. The only version of "Persuasion" that I have truly enjoyed is the 1971 miniseries that starred Ann Firbank and the late Bryan Marshall.
It's odd that I would like this film, considering that my feelings for the 2020 adaptation of "Emma" is completely different. Quite simply, I dislike it. I disliked the overly stylized nature of it that nearly changed some of the characters. I don't know. I just don't like the 2020 version of "Emma". In the end, I guess it's a matter of personal choices and taste.
why is Hughie from the boys analysing persuasion
Hi Joshua-thought of you when I watched the 2020 EMMA (Anya Taylor-Joy) I liked it overall but disliked Amber Anderson's "Jane Fairfax" I have never read Emma (I have a complete Austin tome--which has collected dust on my shelves for years) but I can't imagine Jane is so dull. I saw nothing appealing about her, even her fiery piano playing when she shows up Emma's basic piano skills. The only character I can think of who was as dull (in the film adaptations I've see of Austin works) was the relation (daughter? niece?) of Lady Catherine de Bourgh in the Firth's P&P. I think she sat there and sniffed. LOL [Hope things are getting better for you. Hugs from USA.]
I've not seen that adaptation of Emma, perhaps at some point I'll get round to it. Interesting that Jane would be dull. She's meant to be perceived as competition for Emma (by Emma anyway) so she really shouldn't be dull at all!
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall it may be that she was underacting to hide her "secret" engagement but her bland face and manner makes the viewer think why on earth would Frank Churchill want to marry her. If you ever see it let me know what you think.
I did enjoy Richard E Grant as Sir Walter Elliott - so vain!
As a modern story its revolting crude and boring
As an adaptation of Jane Austen it’s revolting crude and boring
6,328 Comments on CZcams trailer. most aren't very good :( I'll skip it. "Love Puppy" LOL I am partial to the 1995 film. Prefer adaptations that are close to the story, but as so many screenwriters have said you have to deviate a bit. It is a different medium. Case in point I just read THE GODFATHER and then re-watched the film. A terrific adaptation, not including everything in the book but a faithful enough script to please both the readers and the viewers.
Pathos---Anne Elliot is too old to have
children if she wanted to?
It’s not a terrible movie it’s just not Persuasion. It had no longing or build up. The 4th wall breaking could absolutely work on a character so internal, like Anne, but not in the way it was done. It came off as Deadpoolesqe trying to make the audience laugh… like the trip and falling scene!
Oh I agree that the fourth wall breaking could be done well, just not in this case. I would say it's a poor movie though, and as an adaptation at least, pretty awful. 😜
I thought it was terrible in its own right. The dialogue was awful, the story made no sense and there wasn’t an ounce of chemistry between the love interests. The visuals were pretty but that’s just English countryside and manor homes being pretty.
I know all you tubers who did not like this first ever film of it flipping just make it yourself in 90 min see if you lot can do it I am convinced Wentworth just like Darcy has a 18th centurie tracker on Anne to go d her in the woods
If you hate us flipping youtubers so much why watch our videos? We are people too entitled to our opinions. Just as you are entitled to your silly little rant in the comment section 😜
This movie calling itself an "adaptation" is cringe-worthy.
None of them read the fricken book
Netflix makes trash
‘Adaption’ ??
Adap-tay-shun
🤨
Adaption is a variable noun form of adaptation as it happens. So yes. Adaption. 😝
@@JoshuaJClarkeKelsall Both forms are old. The OED lists examples of adaption from as long ago as the early 17th century. Adaptation is just a little older, having come to English from French in the middle 16th century. Adaption has never been the preferred form, though, and in fact has grown less common relative to adaptation over the centuries.
Well, what can I say, I've never been one for "preferred form" :P
To do a retelling in a morern era?😆😆😆 Like you said - that means new reasons for actions, new dialogs - so much work😝😝 And these people didn't want to work. They just wanted to sit on all the chairs - get period drama lovers, stupid kids who can not understand lines harder than "he is a 10", "we are exes", add cheap humor with day drinking ect. And you suggest them to do a proper retelling😶
..wanted to hear a guy's perspective
Don't make Jane Austin woke ...it doesnt work. The whole point is that they are strong awesome women despite the time they lived in. Embrace the past people...dont try to rewrite it.
EVERYTHING. Actors are fabulous but g damn how do you have the AUDACITY to think you can “improve” on Jane Austen … the most god awful piece of crap and frankly insulting to even call it an ‘adaptation’
It was absolute rubbish. Not worth the time to dissect it, go watch the 1995 version if you love the book. It was great.
You cannot adapt a whole book into 90 min what on earth is wrong with it The actor who p!she'd Wentworth was just brilliant i have watched it 4times now the only one actor who did not fit was Elliot he was better in Sally Hawkins one I loved The love between Wentworth and Anne the ending was beautiful get it right Wentworth was in the NAVY not the army for heaven's same YouTubrers stop giving these nasty reviews let people make their own minds up even Colin Firths P@P was over 6hours sorry don't agree at all about Wentworth he is not a sad drop he is just portrayed by a brilliant actor don't forgot Wentworth was in the NAVY stop saying Army watch it again it's not that bad for heavens sake
You're still free to make up your mind darling. My posting a video to start a discussion doesn't stop you, as you can see from your incoherent rant that you've posted just now. I'm glad you enjoyed the film. I didn't. There we are.
I'm finding that this is one of the biggest problems with modern script writing. The writer underestimates the intelligence of the audience. You show people who someone is in a movie, that's what the visual medium is for. You don't have to tell us someone is miserly or cruel or kind. You show us with character development and behavior. It is very lazy script writing and it also makes for very one dimensional characters. There is no room for the actor to act.
Not only do they underestimate the intelligence of the audience, but they also overestimate their own abilities to tell a better story than the person whose work they were adapting :P
Great vid. I haven’t seen this Persuasion and after your review and one other I saw I’m going to give it a miss. Everything I’ve heard makes it sound awful.
If you are making a film of the book, don’t mess with our beloved Jane.
If you want to make a modern adaptation, go for it - but “modern adaptation” means set in modern times.
If you want to make a feminist manifesto then write your own damn book.
I got 2 minutes in and had to turn it off, it's awful.