If you read chapter 0 (Blackwater) in Arthur's journal you realize Dutch has been doing the same thing over and over in a cycle. The game just starts when his behavior has caught up to the gang
Agent Milton calls Dutch “silver tongued”. He knew Dutch was always a really bad guy that brainwashed a bunch of pissed off Americans into doing bad things with him. Old Blind Man Cassidy also refers to Dutch as the friend with the silver tongue in one of his fortunes
My favorite thing about the journal is you can wait until the epilogue to read it, and it feels like you just found a box filled with grandpa's vintage relics and you're getting this mixed feeling of sadness and happiness at the same time
Eh all I saw from my legally blind eyes was that Hosea was the daddy and Dutch was the mommy and Arthur was the adopted kid, while John they picked up from the Chernobyl zone
After almost 275h of playing I finally heard Dutch reading a book to Oshea and Mary. He praised the idea of not finding peace but... spending time doing so. Finding for the sake of finding. Dutch is an outlaw, if he lead his gang to a promised land to grow mango or whatever... can you see him do that? No. He'd lost his way of life and, what's worse, his control over the gang. Being the gang leader defines him and he cannot lose it. So he sends people that trust him into wandering and robbing from place to place only to finally lose their trust and seeing them leave. Does he plea? No. Does he accept it? No. He calls them traitors as each team member loss is a lost piece of himself.
He's a malignant narcissist, like many cult leaders. Control is all he cares about. That's why he ultimately commits suicide rather than let John kill him. He has to feel like he's in control even when he's not.
I think Hosea always sold himself short when it came to leadership potential instead of just being a chief advisor. If there was anyone that could’ve guided that group of impressionable and disillusioned misfits down a less destructive and more legitimately prosperous path, it was him.
Only problem with that is that Hosea never came across as someone who wants that sort of job, especially towards the end. He just wanted to survive and make a living far from the law, Dutch wanted to continue fighting change for a long as he could.
People overthink the trolley theory. The trolley did in fact make him lose his mind, but it was not the hit to the head that did it. It was the fact that he never thought he would be tricked that easy. He was getting sloppier and sloppier and that realisation that he is not on top, outcunning everyone, specially bronco who he thinks is a pomporous lucky idiot but was a rutheless mobster before the italians realised they could take the crime world over. That is why he also killed him in the boat. Dutch was always an idiot and a yokel that could not bear to the fact that the inbred towns would get smarter with more development and stop his easy scores and con tricks...
Not really. Hosea was seeing that Dutch was starting to lose his mind, but he didn't turn into a madman one day for no reason. What I mean is that it wasn't event A or event B. It was a mix of diferent factors... Mainly the constant pressure and frustrations produced by the outlaw life, increased with the loss of Hosea, brain trauma... RDR 2's story shows the downfall of Dutch, but his transformation started before the events of the game, as he killed Heidi McCourt without reason before the start of the Prologue.
From the very start of the prologue you can see Dutch verbally slip up like “I…WE need you to stay strong” to Charles I believe. Shows Dutch always had selfish intentions from the start, including his written out speeches he rehearses before he speaks to the gang. It’s the matter of the events that lead throughout the game where it forces Dutch to reveal his true persona
It's curious how Dutch's selfishness begins to leak out more and more as the game goes on. A good example is when he, Hosea and Arthur have just finished fishing and Dutch says something in the lines of "Now I have a feeling that I... I mean we, are finally going to be okay"
Dutch has always been selfish. If you read Arthur's journal entries and listen to Hosea's stories, you'll find that Dutch has always been like this. I think it only escalated after Hosea was shot because it was he who kept slowing Dutch down.
@@dariomladenovski7047 You should have go fishing with them it was a really Nice time, Hosea and Dutch starting singing songs on the way back from fishing
It's not a mental decline. It's his ego. He's the kind of guy who didn't take losses well. So, when Blackwater fails, he figured the next one has to be twice as good, and if that one fails too, the next one has to be thrice as good and so on. Ultimately, these expectations began to pile on until it becomes insurmountable. So much so, that he NEEDS someone to constantly agreeing with him just so he didn't lost it completely. That's why Micah was able to influence Dutch so easily, even if he hates to admit it, Dutch needs Micah to keep being his little lapdog even if it means turning his back on his own "sons", since none of them are pushovers. Added the many deaths of gang members including Hosea, that should be enough to break a man or his facade.
Dutch is a old man past his prime, the robberies that worked in his heyday are outdated and draw attention from the Pinkertons, it isn't his fault that's all he knew.
Really well said. I really think getting screwed over by the Braithwaites and Grays were a big hit to his ego. As he always referred to them as hicks and hillbillies ect
Yeah ,what happened to the gang at the end was ultimately Dutch's fault not Micah's. If Micah didn't do his role which is feeding his leader's ego ,then Dutch will find someone else to fill that role. Dutch was too arrogant and not ready to listen to his "sons" whom he raised himself.
I think a lot of us did the first playthrough b/c we didn't really get the "flow" of the chapters until 2 and 3. If I were to play this again I'd take my time in Chapter 1 just to hear and see as much as possible like I did in the other chapters.
This game taught me 2 things in life 1 just because you and your friends think your smart and careful doesnt mean you look are anything more of a bunch of idiots pretending to be better that you are. 2 loyality is a currency that is naturally given and if someone heavily demands it you need to run because its not a currency that can be demanded.
I feel like Red Dead Redemption is the only story simulator in the world. It's exceptionally linear, but it's so loaded with nuances, subtext, and details. After completing the game in 2019, I still see new scenes even after playing through it four times. This is good foreshadowing. Hosea's arc is tragic. He was dying of an unknown illness, his partner was losing his mind, and he had to allow himself to be consumed in the haze of it all. That's wisdom, a valuable thing. Hosea is all about that because no one in the gang could debase him because he was too essential to everyone's emotional well-being. When he couldn't fight anymore, he accepted that he was going to die in all scenarios. I'd bet that when Hosea, Dutch, and Arthur go fishing, Hosea's probably at his happiest point right there. Arthur inherited his sensitivity from Hosea. Hosea mirrors Arthur. Hosea died from a bullet. Arthur died from a disease. They both knew, but Hosea got a head start. Arthur is more critical of Dutch after Hosea dies. They both found ways of convincing themselves to stay under Gang's banner. They both suffer for it, but Arthur gets to save someone, and potentially right some of his wrongs. When John dies, honour amongst thieves is not legal tender. Civilization crushes him in the end, and when Edgar Ross was killed by Jack, nothing changed, because revenge became a fool's game, and Edgar Ross was shown to be no different from the gang. Duplicitous, cunning, Machiavellian, and cruel. His services were rewarded with fortune, riches, and medals. Dutch would say "You can't fight nature, you can't fight gravity", the speech given to both John and Arthur, but it doesn't matter who a man is, what he identifies as, or what he does. All men have the potential to step on who they need to in order to reach their destination because civilization is an entity. Civilization is every man, all needs, all wants, and all appetites. Red Dead is Breaking Bad to me as far as TV and video games go. I love seeing likeable and relatable characters who are inherently bad or evil. Seeing them continue to make mistakes, and demonstrate their incapacity for change is my favourite thing. It's allegorical. Tony Soprano-type stuff. To be reminded that criminals are human beings too, just insanely ducked up. I wish the gang would reunite, they're the real Backstreet Boys.
I agree mostly but characters aren’t inherently good or evil in rdr and Breaking Bad. It’s all relative, and everyone is capable of doing good and doing evil. It’s about the circumstances which defines actions of individuals.
With Hosea (and no Micah whispering in his ear) Dutch's mental problems where somewhat under control, the trolley TBI make it worst and Hosea's death removed his main source of positive support (the treatment for narcissistic personality disorder is therapy and Hosea was the closest Dutch was getting to that)
Hosea was fundamental to the group, he was the only one who could manage Dutch and reign him in when he was at his craziest. Hosea knew Dutch the best, and was the only one who didn't follow him blindly. More than that he knew Dutch had badness in him, and he could see Dutch was starting to slip after Blackwater. If Dutch was the captain of the ship then Hosea was the navigator. Dutch made the decisions but Hosea ensured the ship sailed safely. Arthur meanwhile was Dutch's First Mate, the one who enforced Dutch's decisions, and was the person Dutch trusted the most after Hosea. That's why Hosea is so insistent with Arthur here, he knows that his health is failing, he knows Dutch needs a guiding hand and hopes Arthur can take his place as the person who can tell Dutch no when it counts. Unfortunately Micah wormed his way into the group, and became Dutch's right hand man by feeding his ego and telling him what he wanted to hear as opposed to what he needed to hear. Dutch had no voice of reason to reign in his hair-brained plans and he leads the gang to failure.
John said it best in the epilogue: Dutch was just finally found out for the man he always was. He never wanted to change and put the gang through the same cycle of running and failed operations so it caught up to them. And when people started realizing it was going south quick, they jumped ship with the encouragement of Arthur.
"Arthur listen, you need to know that John Marston and Sadie Adler are going to kill Micah on top of a mountain with the help of Dutch." "Who the hell is Sadie Adler?"
Lol me and my brother were cracking up at hosea basically being a harbinger of death the entire game and somehow being completely aware it's the end of the wild west
What caused Dutch's mental decline was the incapacity to change the lives of those around him. He couldn't cope with the thought that the collapse of the group was inevitable and so lead most of them to their deaths. You could also take that further and suggest that caused the decline was the fact that they were rejected by society to begin with. Each of them are outcasts, taken under Dutch's wing with trust. This is why I'd love a prequel to RDR II, I believe it would give a stronger insight into the cultural and political causes as to what lead to the formation of the group - and of Dutch's own mental decline.
Totally agree, I find it particularly interesting how Dutch reacts to the villains who have integrated into society: Bronte, Cornwall etc. He hates them but also envies them, and can't understand how they are allowed to act as they do, but live in luxury, while he's surviving in increasingly desperate hideouts watching it all fall apart.
Everyone at the campfire was always talking about how Dutch saved them, how he saw their worth when no one else could. Then you hear how Micah might've saved Dutch, had him in his pocket afterwards; I think that broke Dutch because that made him look like he needed saving and that he owed a debt he could never repay.
I agree, a big part of game's message it's about change, Dutch wasn't able to change his own and his gang life style that's why every new plan was just a big circule until they got cornered. That's also why he started to hate john and that's why Dutch final words are the same ones that he told to the lawman when he and Arthur jumped. You can't fight gravity as You can't fight change.
Dutch, Hosea, Arthur all knew with the bounty on their heads from the lifetime of crime. They had no choice but to keep going. That's what Arthur ment when he said, and do what? Hosea also knew he had no choice, which is why he said, I don't know. I think Hosea was thinking about the Jr members of the gang. And subtley telling Arthur if we go on like this everyone will die, this is to big for Dutch to handle. He was thinking about Lenny, Hosea, Bill, Charles, and the girls. If they had cut them loose, they would have had a chance at a normal life. And Arhur subtlety reminded Hosea, without them we have no chance. So much communication in so few words. This game is a master class storytelling. The foreboding in hindsight is perfect.
In the mission where arthur and hosea go to steal the wagon for the guy at emerald ranch arthur picks up hoseas cigarette and smokes it seconds after hosea throws it on the ground 😬
Since when was coughing exclusive to just TB? Hosea had an unknown illness but it surely wasn’t TB since he doesn’t have the constant sweat or red eyes like sick Arthur and Downes do. He may have had asthma/lung cancer but even that’s just speculation. Hosea wasn’t nearing death like Arthur was Hosea could’ve easily survived a few more years while Arthur’s body was giving out at a rapid rate
I played this game a lot, and when you do your 2nd or 3rd or any playthrough, it is always hard, knowing what will happen and knowing that you can't do anything about it. I wish RDR 2 had at least some RPG elements like choices that would've changed who stayed alive or who died.
Especially if you could unlock small changes after completing the game the first time, or getting 100% completion rate or something. That would have been pretty cool.
Dutch didn't lose his way or change. He just stopped being able to hide who he truly was when the consequences of his choices and actions caught up with him. He put himself and a small few above the rest of those who trusted and loved him and in the end that made him end up alone.
I have to say, as someone who's very socially isolated, but knows lots of people online this kind of... family seems like something worth fighting for. What I mean I guess is that friendship goes a long way, but it must be truly intense to be thrust into hugely dangerous situations like those the gang goes through; it must bond you like crazy. I see this a lot with military people. Part of me wishes I'd experience this sometime in my life, but again by definition it requires a significant amount of pain and hardship experienced together, so maybe I'll just be happy with sitting here at home.
I suggest you go out and meet people. As Mark Twain said "“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”"
Hosea is smart because he no longer has fangs. He stops relying on strength and uses his mind. He wants a more peaceful life but he is also afraid because he is now weak. Then there is Sean, that despite being caught, has learned nothing after being rescued since he is still young and strong.
yeah, the game is really subtle. like, just think about the moment arthur got infected with tuberculosis. at that moment, this seemed so unsignificant.
I find that Rockstar games did a good job at keeping us guessing at what Dutches' intentions were and when or if they changed. It's very likely Dutch killed the girl to shake things up in Blackwater. This would allow him to hide the money and ensure none of the other gang members would be able to get to it. This would give him the time and also the means to knock off the rest of the gang. All of them being hunted dead or alive would make it easy to see it they're killed off by bounty hunters and Pinkertons. This would make a good cover for his true agenda, to keep more of the money for himself. It's likely he was planing to fake his own death in the end and make off with the money. It's not certain if he planed to take anyone with him. Hosea was sick and dieing, they knew it. Multiple times throughout the game, he clearly intended to leave Arthur for dead. Arthur would not have traded the gang for any amount of money. Dutch knew that, and that would have been a problem for him. Micah would have been key to making his plan work out. Micah, not having any sense of loyalty, would have been very easy to manipulate into doing what he wanted him to do. The one mistake he made, the one thing he overlooked, was John becoming loyal to his family and realizing the gang was his family.
@@DCshandle yeah same dude, i have the game on my laptop since 2 years ago, sometimes i wanted to uninstall in order to free some space but i just can't :)
He knew that since Micah joined. He's been with them for few months and gang was falling apart. Imagine if he didn't. Plus he was stalking them for years.
Micah just took advantage of Dutch's ego. He didn't make him a manipulative sociopath, that's what Dutch always was. The gang would've fallen apart with or without Micah because Dutch was inevitably their doom.
Dutch always wanted to be hard (like Oscar, but he felt like Cesar with caring about people from On My Block), but he was held back by people that he felt that he had an obligation to protect people like the women and Jack. By the time when we see him in Epilogue, there’s a fear aura on Dutch that’s felt because he’s finally the man he really wanted to be: Dutch from RDR1. The Dutch he really wanted to be.
The gang was doomed the moment Hosea died. He was not only the one who can put some senses into Dutch but he was also the one that could have been an enough reason for everyone to stay AND would have took Arthur's side. With how much sory both games did, we never got enough Red Dead plot.
He is right though. If we look at the story, the train robbery leads to a shootout between Cornwall's men and the Gang in Valentine. That attracted the Pinkertons to New Hanover. The actions of the Gang in Lemoyne, shootout in Rhodes with the powerful Grays, and the burning of Braithwaite Manor attracted the Pinkertons to Lemoyne. The trolley robbery and Bronte's brutal death narrowed it down to a small part of that State. They had so much failure, and the gains they had weren't as valuable as the consequences afterwards. Hosea warned about the Cornwall train, Parley with the O'Driscolls and the Bronte revenge. Despite some of his own mistakes, Hosea knew the dangers that Dutch ordered and he was right. The whole Cornwall Robbery being avoided could have saved the Gang a few more years. But Pinkertons were after them and a robbed Cornwall was more than willing to pay the Pinkertons to crackdown in Dutch and the Gang. All the attention that could have kept Colm O'Driscoll busy and kept Dutch under the radar. That being said, Hosea surviving the Bank heist would not have stopped Dutch. He would still be a narcist and probably turn on Hosea too.
I started playing this game for the first time this month and without knowing anything about the story line and how things were going to play out, the game does a really good job from the beginning to really sus out Dutch and makes you a bit weary of him. I just wish I had the opportunity to keep Arthur away from him and have him do his own thing but that's not how things work.
It's not just Hosea, everybody already knew Dutch went batshit, even Dutch himself asks Arthur in Chapter 1 "have you completely lost faith in me?" during a conversation, showing that the cat's out of the bag, everyone knows even Dutch's most loyal men don't agree with him as much anymore, and that's not the only instance either. It's easy to miss on the first playthrough, but almost impossible not to notice on subsequent ones. When I read assholes saying dumb shit like "Dutch hit his head, that's the reason" or "Micah was in his ear", I literally want to slap them through the internet
Dutch was so hypocritical. I remember when he and Agent Miller or Milton I forgot, were talking and Dutch said something alone the lines of "you are all so greedy and horrible or whatnot" and I was so angry. Seriously dude? Are you that delusional? You are the one chasing money over and over again, ignoring what Hosea and Arthur keep telling you over and over again. In one horse ride conversation he said to Arthur "you all can leave if you want! This isnt a prison cell. Micah is the only loyal one" and Arthur interjected and said "that aint fair". So we got emotional blackmail and favouring a person that has been around for less than a year over a man that has been with you since the start. Got it. I hated Dutch. Hes the worst
From what I understand, Micah did influence Dutch a lot but that's because Dutch was a narcissist and Micah was a weasel, willing to tell Dutch everything he wanted to hear until Dutch started to favour Micah and became susceptible to his suggestions and whatnot
@@joegartland There isn't a single instance in the game where Micah makes Dutch do anything or even suggests an idea that Dutch later follows through on. That whole concept that Micah had any influence on him was made up by the fans
this gives the dutch finally showing his true colors theory more validity. I still think Dutch is insane though, you surround yourself with people who worship you as a leader and you will eventually gain that corrupt leader mentality.
The sad one is when Dutch tells Arthur he suspects Arthur will betray him in the end, because he’s the type. Micah didn’t need to get in his ear for that. Dutch was already suspicious of Arthur. Dutch messed up, big time, but you can see it in his eyes during the high honor help Marston escape final cutscene. That moment as he looks at Arthur, realizes Arthur is dying and it dawns on him that the last of the old guard was gone. You can tell Dutch realized Arthur never really betrayed him, he betrayed Arthur and betrayed him to his death. It was enough to snap Dutch out of it and see clearly who the real traitor was in the end, that Micah was no son of his and was no ally either. Not enough people give the arc enough credit. We see Hosea repeatedly trying to get John and Abigail to leave. Hosea tells Abigail to be ready to get out and to think of Jack and that if it comes to it, she’d have to leave John to save Jack. Abigail was loyal to John and John felt so guilty about breaking the code and leaving the gang for that year that he couldn’t bring himself to run again. Arthur made it clear that he disapproved of him running off, made it clear that loyalty to Dutch and the gang was the most important thing. In the end, it had to be him to tell John to run and don’t look back. He was the most loyal to Dutch of them all, right up until the last three chapters. I wonder how long Bill had been running with Dutch or Javier.
Always wanted to ask this, but has anyone actually been in charge of a group of people, it takes its toll and disillusions you from what you always thought you wanted. to be trapped, hated and hunted every where, getting old alone is fucking tiresome enough but damn .. Its alot being responsible for human beings. imagine this, you go to work and you dont make enough, most people hate you and management is looking for any excuse to get you fired, Meanwhile your losing touch with your girl, and your kids just got expelled so they are home 24/7 now + kids missing school and classes they cant just go back through the same year and re-do ( imagine lunch costs and all that) well theres no food either (for you at least) you made sure everyone got something. Meanwhile your two best friends are dying and you cant face that but it makes you think of your own mortality and all those dreams you either dont have time for or your own actions have put you on a path where you will never get to those dreams... and then family and friends say youve lost your mind .. you dont have a plan ... everyone looking at you for answers but offering no solutions . Then with all this rolling around in your head , paranoia , anxiety and suddenly your showing symptoms of mental illness but all you really know is that you are dog tired and dont have the ambition or patience to do it anymore, so you look for something that makes sense ANYTHING to force it all to add up but it never does .. and just for kicks theres no A.C. or electricity , fresh convenient water or food, no one handing out food stamps or vaccines and your ass hurts from riding an animal all day and you smell like horse shit. :D
And one more detail, am I the only one who noticed that Hosea was coughing right up to his end... from the very beginning it makes me think that Arthur got tuberculosis from him.
Hosea didnt really know what to do with the gang after the blackwater i think and maybe he was caught up with some disease so he wasnt able to control and guide dutch and dutch didn't go insane in gaurma but in blackwater itself when he killed a little girl and this was reminded by the stranger to john in the original game, and hosea ,until he died except some occasions he just existed to be there as an elderly person
Now beating the game after so many years of this stories existence, I feel like they all died on that mountain. Metaphorically. John saw it during the climax of the West in Blackwater and most likely would've perished. Hosea saw it the beginning of the aftermath and could've easily walked away had it not been for his love for Dutch. Abigail (shockingly) knew a lot more than she let on and as soon as Danny died at the start of their exodus, she wanted a way out. Arthur finally saw it after the debts he was collecting placed a once respectable civil mother on the street as a escort. It all came full circle.
So many games and movies are so full of empty dialogue that i always listened to these type of conversations without even thinking about it. Kinda sad, seeing all these great scenes that i missed because of it
i thought hosea was gonna say "arthur ur gonna die on a cliff telling dutch that you tried your best" and arthur was gonna be like "yeah whatever"
Arthur: "Catch you later then"
Arthur: Cant put my finger on it
”I guess I’ll leave you to it then”
This is a fine spot.
“Also, tuberculosis”
Dutch killed innocent girl in Blackwater during failed robbery. I guess this is why Hosea warns Arthur
rdr2 players go on killing many innocent people, no one bats an eye
But when dutch kills one innocent girl, the world loses its mind
@@ballinmike6554 everyone bats an eye dude
@@FriendwithNoName7 and ended up being right
@zgb14 honestly I think Dutch was always crazy just hiding it or a mental decline or something
I think he killed that girl in the same manner as when John saw Dutch for the first time in RDR
If you read chapter 0 (Blackwater) in Arthur's journal you realize Dutch has been doing the same thing over and over in a cycle. The game just starts when his behavior has caught up to the gang
damn i haven’t read a single thing from his journal i’ll start tomorrow
@@Hitta-xg3tz I really recommend it, the drawings are amazing and it makes Arthur a much more fleshed out character
@@noamias4897that’s the reason it felt so emotional in my first play through
Agent Milton calls Dutch “silver tongued”. He knew Dutch was always a really bad guy that brainwashed a bunch of pissed off Americans into doing bad things with him. Old Blind Man Cassidy also refers to Dutch as the friend with the silver tongue in one of his fortunes
My favorite thing about the journal is you can wait until the epilogue to read it, and it feels like you just found a box filled with grandpa's vintage relics and you're getting this mixed feeling of sadness and happiness at the same time
When replaying it you see that Hosea was the one keeping people together and Dutch was paranoid from the start.
I noticed it on my first play through, Hosea was the sane one while Dutch was the self absorbed ego maniac.
Eh all I saw from my legally blind eyes was that Hosea was the daddy and Dutch was the mommy and Arthur was the adopted kid, while John they picked up from the Chernobyl zone
@@PandaGotBroadsAtAtlantamost underrated comment in the history of comments
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 @@PandaGotBroadsAtAtlanta
Your are right bro
Still can't forget how amazed I was when I first started playing back in 2018. Probably the only game that made me feel like a child lost in a game
For me only this and Ocarina of Time
Witcher 3 was equally impressive
@@ac1dm0nk Yeah, RDR2 and Witcher 3 had me by my balls.
Yep this game, Witcher 3, and recently Elden Ring
probably the last game too as we get older
accidently skip to 0:05 and i get greeted with this demonic screech
After almost 275h of playing I finally heard Dutch reading a book to Oshea and Mary. He praised the idea of not finding peace but... spending time doing so. Finding for the sake of finding. Dutch is an outlaw, if he lead his gang to a promised land to grow mango or whatever... can you see him do that? No. He'd lost his way of life and, what's worse, his control over the gang. Being the gang leader defines him and he cannot lose it. So he sends people that trust him into wandering and robbing from place to place only to finally lose their trust and seeing them leave. Does he plea? No. Does he accept it? No. He calls them traitors as each team member loss is a lost piece of himself.
Your average narcissist, pretty much.
Nah
Smart comment, I like it
“Evermore free… isn’t that the most wonderful idea of all?”
He's a malignant narcissist, like many cult leaders. Control is all he cares about. That's why he ultimately commits suicide rather than let John kill him. He has to feel like he's in control even when he's not.
Hosea: "Arthur, your balls will explode on October 16, 1899."
Arthur: "You have a kind lookin' face, mister."
I think Hosea always sold himself short when it came to leadership potential instead of just being a chief advisor. If there was anyone that could’ve guided that group of impressionable and disillusioned misfits down a less destructive and more legitimately prosperous path, it was him.
Only problem with that is that Hosea never came across as someone who wants that sort of job, especially towards the end. He just wanted to survive and make a living far from the law, Dutch wanted to continue fighting change for a long as he could.
Hosea lacks the charisma of a leader
I cant see Dutch allowing him that power. Dutch liked the power he had, he obviously thought he was god
@@juliandavidhoffer2022 Aka the ability to BS people. Because Hosea is honest.
@@lePurpleDragon yep
Read this as “horse knew it from the start” and rewatched three times looking for the horse
Stop horsing around 💀
Stop horsing around 💀
Average retarded american
As a person who has a bit of Dyslexia this hit me hard asf 😂
Hey arent you the guy from Horsing Around?
this puts an end to the Trolley theory
perhaps the trolley made him extra crazy.
People overthink the trolley theory. The trolley did in fact make him lose his mind, but it was not the hit to the head that did it.
It was the fact that he never thought he would be tricked that easy. He was getting sloppier and sloppier and that realisation that he is not on top, outcunning everyone, specially bronco who he thinks is a pomporous lucky idiot but was a rutheless mobster before the italians realised they could take the crime world over.
That is why he also killed him in the boat. Dutch was always an idiot and a yokel that could not bear to the fact that the inbred towns would get smarter with more development and stop his easy scores and con tricks...
Not really. Hosea was seeing that Dutch was starting to lose his mind, but he didn't turn into a madman one day for no reason.
What I mean is that it wasn't event A or event B. It was a mix of diferent factors... Mainly the constant pressure and frustrations produced by the outlaw life, increased with the loss of Hosea, brain trauma... RDR 2's story shows the downfall of Dutch, but his transformation started before the events of the game, as he killed Heidi McCourt without reason before the start of the Prologue.
he was already crazy, but the accident with the trolley made him crazier to the point of becoming a skinner
From the very start of the prologue you can see Dutch verbally slip up like “I…WE need you to stay strong” to Charles I believe. Shows Dutch always had selfish intentions from the start, including his written out speeches he rehearses before he speaks to the gang. It’s the matter of the events that lead throughout the game where it forces Dutch to reveal his true persona
It's curious how Dutch's selfishness begins to leak out more and more as the game goes on. A good example is when he, Hosea and Arthur have just finished fishing and Dutch says something in the lines of "Now I have a feeling that I... I mean we, are finally going to be okay"
It is apparent from the very first time you take control of Arthur...." GET YOURSELF INDOORS SON....I......WE....need you strong "
Dutch is a textbook example of a sociopath. Constant manipulation and coercion. All without regard for how people feel and how it affects them.
Dutch has always been selfish. If you read Arthur's journal entries and listen to Hosea's stories, you'll find that Dutch has always been like this.
I think it only escalated after Hosea was shot because it was he who kept slowing Dutch down.
I just found this out because I didn't even go fishing with them, I just declined them lmao
@@dariomladenovski7047 You should have go fishing with them it was a really Nice time, Hosea and Dutch starting singing songs on the way back from fishing
It's not a mental decline. It's his ego. He's the kind of guy who didn't take losses well. So, when Blackwater fails, he figured the next one has to be twice as good, and if that one fails too, the next one has to be thrice as good and so on. Ultimately, these expectations began to pile on until it becomes insurmountable. So much so, that he NEEDS someone to constantly agreeing with him just so he didn't lost it completely. That's why Micah was able to influence Dutch so easily, even if he hates to admit it, Dutch needs Micah to keep being his little lapdog even if it means turning his back on his own "sons", since none of them are pushovers. Added the many deaths of gang members including Hosea, that should be enough to break a man or his facade.
Damn.. you worded this so insanely perfectly.
Dutch is a old man past his prime, the robberies that worked in his heyday are outdated and draw attention from the Pinkertons, it isn't his fault that's all he knew.
Really well said. I really think getting screwed over by the Braithwaites and Grays were a big hit to his ego. As he always referred to them as hicks and hillbillies ect
So he's like a gambler who keeps doubling his bet until if finally pays off... or until all is lost...
Yeah ,what happened to the gang at the end was ultimately Dutch's fault not Micah's. If Micah didn't do his role which is feeding his leader's ego ,then Dutch will find someone else to fill that role. Dutch was too arrogant and not ready to listen to his "sons" whom he raised himself.
He told Abigail something similar as early as Horseshoe overlook, told her to make plans and get out....
The whole gang was trying to get John and Abigail out for the longest time.
I'm always in a rush to get off the mountain so I've never seen this dialogue happen before.
I think a lot of us did the first playthrough b/c we didn't really get the "flow" of the chapters until 2 and 3. If I were to play this again I'd take my time in Chapter 1 just to hear and see as much as possible like I did in the other chapters.
I hate the beginning of the game so much
Man I wish I could go back to my first play through and enjoy the mountains section more, regret rushing through it 😔
Chapter 1 you can’t go outside of camp unless it’s a mission.
@@DariusTeebo-zo3rywtf? I love the beginning
This game taught me 2 things in life
1 just because you and your friends think your smart and careful doesnt mean you look are anything more of a bunch of idiots pretending to be better that you are.
2 loyality is a currency that is naturally given and if someone heavily demands it you need to run because its not a currency that can be demanded.
The effect we have on others is the most valuable currency there is.
I feel like Red Dead Redemption is the only story simulator in the world. It's exceptionally linear, but it's so loaded with nuances, subtext, and details. After completing the game in 2019, I still see new scenes even after playing through it four times. This is good foreshadowing. Hosea's arc is tragic. He was dying of an unknown illness, his partner was losing his mind, and he had to allow himself to be consumed in the haze of it all. That's wisdom, a valuable thing. Hosea is all about that because no one in the gang could debase him because he was too essential to everyone's emotional well-being. When he couldn't fight anymore, he accepted that he was going to die in all scenarios. I'd bet that when Hosea, Dutch, and Arthur go fishing, Hosea's probably at his happiest point right there. Arthur inherited his sensitivity from Hosea. Hosea mirrors Arthur. Hosea died from a bullet. Arthur died from a disease. They both knew, but Hosea got a head start. Arthur is more critical of Dutch after Hosea dies. They both found ways of convincing themselves to stay under Gang's banner. They both suffer for it, but Arthur gets to save someone, and potentially right some of his wrongs. When John dies, honour amongst thieves is not legal tender. Civilization crushes him in the end, and when Edgar Ross was killed by Jack, nothing changed, because revenge became a fool's game, and Edgar Ross was shown to be no different from the gang. Duplicitous, cunning, Machiavellian, and cruel. His services were rewarded with fortune, riches, and medals. Dutch would say "You can't fight nature, you can't fight gravity", the speech given to both John and Arthur, but it doesn't matter who a man is, what he identifies as, or what he does. All men have the potential to step on who they need to in order to reach their destination because civilization is an entity. Civilization is every man, all needs, all wants, and all appetites. Red Dead is Breaking Bad to me as far as TV and video games go. I love seeing likeable and relatable characters who are inherently bad or evil. Seeing them continue to make mistakes, and demonstrate their incapacity for change is my favourite thing. It's allegorical. Tony Soprano-type stuff. To be reminded that criminals are human beings too, just insanely ducked up. I wish the gang would reunite, they're the real Backstreet Boys.
Damn you should make deep dive/essay type vids!! This comment is brilliant.
I agree mostly but characters aren’t inherently good or evil in rdr and Breaking Bad. It’s all relative, and everyone is capable of doing good and doing evil. It’s about the circumstances which defines actions of individuals.
man wrote one of those long passages you find on the gre
@@aryanshah5859 finish your sentence
@@sweetgeorge3200 do you not know what the gre is
Dutch was always crazy and the two head injuries he has later in the game only amplified what was already there.
With Hosea (and no Micah whispering in his ear) Dutch's mental problems where somewhat under control, the trolley TBI make it worst and Hosea's death removed his main source of positive support (the treatment for narcissistic personality disorder is therapy and Hosea was the closest Dutch was getting to that)
I'd like to think he wasn't crazy, just a narc with natural born leader quality
@@chkcnchncy it is
Two? I remember the trolley, what's the other one?
Calling dutch crazy is a wild generalization
Hosea clearly implies " dont take Poison just because Honey aint available "
Hosea was fundamental to the group, he was the only one who could manage Dutch and reign him in when he was at his craziest. Hosea knew Dutch the best, and was the only one who didn't follow him blindly. More than that he knew Dutch had badness in him, and he could see Dutch was starting to slip after Blackwater.
If Dutch was the captain of the ship then Hosea was the navigator. Dutch made the decisions but Hosea ensured the ship sailed safely. Arthur meanwhile was Dutch's First Mate, the one who enforced Dutch's decisions, and was the person Dutch trusted the most after Hosea. That's why Hosea is so insistent with Arthur here, he knows that his health is failing, he knows Dutch needs a guiding hand and hopes Arthur can take his place as the person who can tell Dutch no when it counts.
Unfortunately Micah wormed his way into the group, and became Dutch's right hand man by feeding his ego and telling him what he wanted to hear as opposed to what he needed to hear. Dutch had no voice of reason to reign in his hair-brained plans and he leads the gang to failure.
Crazy how dutch surrounded himself w real men and ended up upset with them because they weren’t yes men 😂
Hosea definitely knew.. Same reason he kept telling John to get out.
John said it best in the epilogue: Dutch was just finally found out for the man he always was. He never wanted to change and put the gang through the same cycle of running and failed operations so it caught up to them. And when people started realizing it was going south quick, they jumped ship with the encouragement of Arthur.
Gawd, I love this game
My 50 minute long video in one sentence
"Arthur listen, you need to know that John Marston and Sadie Adler are going to kill Micah on top of a mountain with the help of Dutch."
"Who the hell is Sadie Adler?"
Lol me and my brother were cracking up at hosea basically being a harbinger of death the entire game and somehow being completely aware it's the end of the wild west
What caused Dutch's mental decline was the incapacity to change the lives of those around him. He couldn't cope with the thought that the collapse of the group was inevitable and so lead most of them to their deaths. You could also take that further and suggest that caused the decline was the fact that they were rejected by society to begin with. Each of them are outcasts, taken under Dutch's wing with trust. This is why I'd love a prequel to RDR II, I believe it would give a stronger insight into the cultural and political causes as to what lead to the formation of the group - and of Dutch's own mental decline.
Totally agree, I find it particularly interesting how Dutch reacts to the villains who have integrated into society: Bronte, Cornwall etc. He hates them but also envies them, and can't understand how they are allowed to act as they do, but live in luxury, while he's surviving in increasingly desperate hideouts watching it all fall apart.
@@LiamBar2010 it seems like all Dutch wants is to be a new world feudal lord.
Everyone at the campfire was always talking about how Dutch saved them, how he saw their worth when no one else could. Then you hear how Micah might've saved Dutch, had him in his pocket afterwards; I think that broke Dutch because that made him look like he needed saving and that he owed a debt he could never repay.
Dumbasses dutch was cold blooded killer the type to shoot up a school
I agree, a big part of game's message it's about change, Dutch wasn't able to change his own and his gang life style that's why every new plan was just a big circule until they got cornered.
That's also why he started to hate john and that's why Dutch final words are the same ones that he told to the lawman when he and Arthur jumped.
You can't fight gravity as You can't fight change.
Dutch, Hosea, Arthur all knew with the bounty on their heads from the lifetime of crime. They had no choice but to keep going. That's what Arthur ment when he said, and do what? Hosea also knew he had no choice, which is why he said, I don't know. I think Hosea was thinking about the Jr members of the gang. And subtley telling Arthur if we go on like this everyone will die, this is to big for Dutch to handle. He was thinking about Lenny, Hosea, Bill, Charles, and the girls. If they had cut them loose, they would have had a chance at a normal life. And Arhur subtlety reminded Hosea, without them we have no chance. So much communication in so few words. This game is a master class storytelling. The foreboding in hindsight is perfect.
Plot twist: Hosea gave Arthur TB not the debtor
I was thinking the sane thing
In the mission where arthur and hosea go to steal the wagon for the guy at emerald ranch arthur picks up hoseas cigarette and smokes it seconds after hosea throws it on the ground 😬
I heard hosea has Ashma
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Since when was coughing exclusive to just TB? Hosea had an unknown illness but it surely wasn’t TB since he doesn’t have the constant sweat or red eyes like sick Arthur and Downes do. He may have had asthma/lung cancer but even that’s just speculation. Hosea wasn’t nearing death like Arthur was Hosea could’ve easily survived a few more years while Arthur’s body was giving out at a rapid rate
I played this game a lot, and when you do your 2nd or 3rd or any playthrough, it is always hard, knowing what will happen and knowing that you can't do anything about it. I wish RDR 2 had at least some RPG elements like choices that would've changed who stayed alive or who died.
It's the old west. There's only one end for every character.
Especially if you could unlock small changes after completing the game the first time, or getting 100% completion rate or something. That would have been pretty cool.
there cant be choices here bc rdr1 exist
@@cen9_str Well yeah for some characters like Bill Javier and Dutch have to survive because of rdr1 but like if you could change Lenny or Sean's fate
@qwopiretyu to be fair not everyone was killed in the end, some of the gang got out early and lived (fairly) happily.
Dutch didn't lose his way or change. He just stopped being able to hide who he truly was when the consequences of his choices and actions caught up with him. He put himself and a small few above the rest of those who trusted and loved him and in the end that made him end up alone.
I have to say, as someone who's very socially isolated, but knows lots of people online this kind of... family seems like something worth fighting for. What I mean I guess is that friendship goes a long way, but it must be truly intense to be thrust into hugely dangerous situations like those the gang goes through; it must bond you like crazy. I see this a lot with military people. Part of me wishes I'd experience this sometime in my life, but again by definition it requires a significant amount of pain and hardship experienced together, so maybe I'll just be happy with sitting here at home.
I suggest you go out and meet people. As Mark Twain said "“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”"
Hosea is smart because he no longer has fangs. He stops relying on strength and uses his mind.
He wants a more peaceful life but he is also afraid because he is now weak.
Then there is Sean, that despite being caught, has learned nothing after being rescued since he is still young and strong.
I wanna play a game as younger Hosea, man is a gentle cunning savage.
Arthur slowly becomes Hosea, cough n all.
i choose to believe hosea not leaving footprints in the snow isnt a bug, but an artistic foreshadowing that he is not long for the world
Yeah, really Nice interpretation! I play this game right now. Thank You!
lmao
@@fayal01 rockstar hire me
The game likes to get all foreshadow-y without getting too spoiler-y if that makes sense
yeah, the game is really subtle. like, just think about the moment arthur got infected with tuberculosis. at that moment, this seemed so unsignificant.
“I thought we were lying low and now we’re about to rob a Train Cornwall is not a man to be messed with”
And he was right
Hosea started to trolling Artur`s disease before Micah
Once every few months I get this kind of videos and I can’t resist watching them although my feed will be full of RDR tomorrow
I’ve played over seven play through of this game and I’m always hearing new lines of dialogue lol
I've played through the game 20 or more times and I'm still seeing new things lol
Ayo get some different games lol
@@StefanWinchester Lol i played the game like 80 times and im still seein new thin
Yes same! I was sitting at the Poker table with Lenny, Strass and Uncle and they had new lines of dialogue! I’m like wait! That wasn’t said before.
he's totally foreshadowing Arthur with his sickness and all.
Rip my niggaz big zay and lil art 😭😭😭
I find that Rockstar games did a good job at keeping us guessing at what Dutches' intentions were and when or if they changed. It's very likely Dutch killed the girl to shake things up in Blackwater. This would allow him to hide the money and ensure none of the other gang members would be able to get to it. This would give him the time and also the means to knock off the rest of the gang. All of them being hunted dead or alive would make it easy to see it they're killed off by bounty hunters and Pinkertons. This would make a good cover for his true agenda, to keep more of the money for himself. It's likely he was planing to fake his own death in the end and make off with the money. It's not certain if he planed to take anyone with him. Hosea was sick and dieing, they knew it. Multiple times throughout the game, he clearly intended to leave Arthur for dead. Arthur would not have traded the gang for any amount of money. Dutch knew that, and that would have been a problem for him. Micah would have been key to making his plan work out. Micah, not having any sense of loyalty, would have been very easy to manipulate into doing what he wanted him to do. The one mistake he made, the one thing he overlooked, was John becoming loyal to his family and realizing the gang was his family.
Crazy how this was the first sign of Hosea’s sickness AND the gangs downfall. Game is jam packed with details
The game is been out for 5 year and ppl still talking about it?
this game is a timeless Masterpiece
Redownloading on pc for my second playthrough. I had the game for years on ps4 and always set it aside but it became an instant classic for me
@@DCshandle yeah same dude, i have the game on my laptop since 2 years ago, sometimes i wanted to uninstall in order to free some space but i just can't :)
@@kawayouu9352That’s why my video about it ballooned to 50 minutes straight!
“Alright catch you later then”
how could the gang follow dutch judt after chapter 2 is beyond me.
I feel like loyalty blinded them. 😔
Loyalty. Dutch pretty much saved their lives. Plus the countless speech he did in camp telling them to trust him
He knew that since Micah joined.
He's been with them for few months and gang was falling apart.
Imagine if he didn't.
Plus he was stalking them for years.
Micah just took advantage of Dutch's ego. He didn't make him a manipulative sociopath, that's what Dutch always was. The gang would've fallen apart with or without Micah because Dutch was inevitably their doom.
Dutch always wanted to be hard (like Oscar, but he felt like Cesar with caring about people from On My Block), but he was held back by people that he felt that he had an obligation to protect people like the women and Jack. By the time when we see him in Epilogue, there’s a fear aura on Dutch that’s felt because he’s finally the man he really wanted to be: Dutch from RDR1. The Dutch he really wanted to be.
The gang was doomed the moment Hosea died. He was not only the one who can put some senses into Dutch but he was also the one that could have been an enough reason for everyone to stay AND would have took Arthur's side.
With how much sory both games did, we never got enough Red Dead plot.
Hosea Knew The Future
So as The Blind man.
They should have made some side mision tipe were you go to hosea lenny and sean grave and have a couple of words and something he remembers about them
He is right though. If we look at the story, the train robbery leads to a shootout between Cornwall's men and the Gang in Valentine. That attracted the Pinkertons to New Hanover. The actions of the Gang in Lemoyne, shootout in Rhodes with the powerful Grays, and the burning of Braithwaite Manor attracted the Pinkertons to Lemoyne. The trolley robbery and Bronte's brutal death narrowed it down to a small part of that State.
They had so much failure, and the gains they had weren't as valuable as the consequences afterwards. Hosea warned about the Cornwall train, Parley with the O'Driscolls and the Bronte revenge. Despite some of his own mistakes, Hosea knew the dangers that Dutch ordered and he was right. The whole Cornwall Robbery being avoided could have saved the Gang a few more years. But Pinkertons were after them and a robbed Cornwall was more than willing to pay the Pinkertons to crackdown in Dutch and the Gang. All the attention that could have kept Colm O'Driscoll busy and kept Dutch under the radar.
That being said, Hosea surviving the Bank heist would not have stopped Dutch. He would still be a narcist and probably turn on Hosea too.
I started playing this game for the first time this month and without knowing anything about the story line and how things were going to play out, the game does a really good job from the beginning to really sus out Dutch and makes you a bit weary of him. I just wish I had the opportunity to keep Arthur away from him and have him do his own thing but that's not how things work.
It's not just Hosea, everybody already knew Dutch went batshit, even Dutch himself asks Arthur in Chapter 1 "have you completely lost faith in me?" during a conversation, showing that the cat's out of the bag, everyone knows even Dutch's most loyal men don't agree with him as much anymore, and that's not the only instance either. It's easy to miss on the first playthrough, but almost impossible not to notice on subsequent ones. When I read assholes saying dumb shit like "Dutch hit his head, that's the reason" or "Micah was in his ear", I literally want to slap them through the internet
If only you could slap through the internet haha
Dutch was so hypocritical. I remember when he and Agent Miller or Milton I forgot, were talking and Dutch said something alone the lines of "you are all so greedy and horrible or whatnot" and I was so angry. Seriously dude? Are you that delusional? You are the one chasing money over and over again, ignoring what Hosea and Arthur keep telling you over and over again. In one horse ride conversation he said to Arthur "you all can leave if you want! This isnt a prison cell. Micah is the only loyal one" and Arthur interjected and said "that aint fair". So we got emotional blackmail and favouring a person that has been around for less than a year over a man that has been with you since the start. Got it. I hated Dutch. Hes the worst
From what I understand, Micah did influence Dutch a lot but that's because Dutch was a narcissist and Micah was a weasel, willing to tell Dutch everything he wanted to hear until Dutch started to favour Micah and became susceptible to his suggestions and whatnot
@@joegartland There isn't a single instance in the game where Micah makes Dutch do anything or even suggests an idea that Dutch later follows through on. That whole concept that Micah had any influence on him was made up by the fans
I mean in chapter 2, he literally snaps and tells Arthur ominously that he thinks he's going to be the first to betray him or something like that.
He also had tb
"You see a man who changed. I see a man who finally got found out for what he really is."
this gives the dutch finally showing his true colors theory more validity. I still think Dutch is insane though, you surround yourself with people who worship you as a leader and you will eventually gain that corrupt leader mentality.
Arthur really does become more like hosea by the end.
Realizing, when rdr2 starts, thats when the whole group changes. Only if they made a game where it ended at the ferry heist
It would have been a low move, but I would have left the group at this point.
" it's just Hosea said, long has he foreseen this doom"
Arthur: "FORESEEN AND DONE NOTHING"
ALRIGHT ILL CATCH YA LATER THEN
Hosea was sick as Well
Still can't forget how amazed I was when I first started playing back in 2018.
That's understandable you start doubt, when you are the right hand of narcissistic sociopath leader for years.
Fun fact, after Arthur gets his diagnosis he's also answers the question "still alive?" with "for now".
foreshadowing is a narrative device
Can't wait for RDR3 where we play as Davey, and the game's climax is the Blackwater robbery.
"guess that i could never figure that out neither"
The sad one is when Dutch tells Arthur he suspects Arthur will betray him in the end, because he’s the type. Micah didn’t need to get in his ear for that. Dutch was already suspicious of Arthur. Dutch messed up, big time, but you can see it in his eyes during the high honor help Marston escape final cutscene. That moment as he looks at Arthur, realizes Arthur is dying and it dawns on him that the last of the old guard was gone. You can tell Dutch realized Arthur never really betrayed him, he betrayed Arthur and betrayed him to his death. It was enough to snap Dutch out of it and see clearly who the real traitor was in the end, that Micah was no son of his and was no ally either.
Not enough people give the arc enough credit. We see Hosea repeatedly trying to get John and Abigail to leave. Hosea tells Abigail to be ready to get out and to think of Jack and that if it comes to it, she’d have to leave John to save Jack. Abigail was loyal to John and John felt so guilty about breaking the code and leaving the gang for that year that he couldn’t bring himself to run again. Arthur made it clear that he disapproved of him running off, made it clear that loyalty to Dutch and the gang was the most important thing. In the end, it had to be him to tell John to run and don’t look back. He was the most loyal to Dutch of them all, right up until the last three chapters. I wonder how long Bill had been running with Dutch or Javier.
im still playing trough and when hosea got killed Dutch has really started to feel crazy
"At least we didnt get shot robbing a bank or something."
Bro i screamed at my screen for 20 minutes yelling "HOSEA RUN AWAYYY" till i realized i was being a dumbass
Average anime pfp comment
“Alright, catch you later then.”
hosea looks like a car that's too lazy to start when it's cold with that cough
Always wanted to ask this, but has anyone actually been in charge of a group of people, it takes its toll and disillusions you from what you always thought you wanted. to be trapped, hated and hunted every where, getting old alone is fucking tiresome enough but damn .. Its alot being responsible for human beings.
imagine this, you go to work and you dont make enough, most people hate you and management is looking for any excuse to get you fired, Meanwhile your losing touch with your girl, and your kids just got expelled so they are home 24/7 now + kids missing school and classes they cant just go back through the same year and re-do ( imagine lunch costs and all that) well theres no food either (for you at least) you made sure everyone got something. Meanwhile your two best friends are dying and you cant face that but it makes you think of your own mortality and all those dreams you either dont have time for or your own actions have put you on a path where you will never get to those dreams... and then family and friends say youve lost your mind .. you dont have a plan ... everyone looking at you for answers but offering no solutions . Then with all this rolling around in your head , paranoia , anxiety and suddenly your showing symptoms of mental illness but all you really know is that you are dog tired and dont have the ambition or patience to do it anymore, so you look for something that makes sense ANYTHING to force it all to add up but it never does ..
and just for kicks theres no A.C. or electricity , fresh convenient water or food, no one handing out food stamps or vaccines and your ass hurts from riding an animal all day and you smell like horse shit. :D
i love how a character having a cough in a game/movie/tv show is a surefire way of telling they're absolutely doomed
God bless Hosea
And one more detail, am I the only one who noticed that Hosea was coughing right up to his end... from the very beginning it makes me think that Arthur got tuberculosis from him.
Narcissism is a hell of a drug
Hosea we just need more MONEY!
Hosea ❤😢
"i dont know. I never knew. Guess I could never figure it neither".
Id love a game riding with the gang in their prime. Riding through the real lawless west.
Imagine a game about younger Hosea and at some point in the story you get to find young Arthur. I would die of a weird mix of joy and sadness. 🥲
damn i just went through the end of chapter 5 where hosea died and arthur & them were on Guarma, i miss hosea
imagine if hosea still alive the gang would be a peace well not peace as peace but more peaceful than the canon event
Ok, I'll catch you later then
Hosea didnt really know what to do with the gang after the blackwater i think and maybe he was caught up with some disease so he wasnt able to control and guide dutch and dutch didn't go insane in gaurma but in blackwater itself when he killed a little girl and this was reminded by the stranger to john in the original game, and hosea ,until he died except some occasions he just existed to be there as an elderly person
Now beating the game after so many years of this stories existence, I feel like they all died on that mountain. Metaphorically.
John saw it during the climax of the West in Blackwater and most likely would've perished.
Hosea saw it the beginning of the aftermath and could've easily walked away had it not been for his love for Dutch.
Abigail (shockingly) knew a lot more than she let on and as soon as Danny died at the start of their exodus, she wanted a way out.
Arthur finally saw it after the debts he was collecting placed a once respectable civil mother on the street as a escort. It all came full circle.
Omg hosea play3d rdrTWO and came back to LIFE
Yep, Dutch was the real scoundrel in this story not micah
Have a little faith hosea
This game foreshadow the whole plot from the beggining
Hosea really was the smartest
hosea is brain of the gang
the foreshadowing is crazy
If only Hosea lived long enough to see how right he was
So many games and movies are so full of empty dialogue that i always listened to these type of conversations without even thinking about it. Kinda sad, seeing all these great scenes that i missed because of it