Ben I used to work for a US board manufacturer, you're correct the edges are harder but it's not from compressing the bevel. There are 2 types of slurry that fill a board during manufacture: the core essentially has soap which traps a little air to make board lighter, the second slurry is a layer without bubbles and designed to be harder which is spread thinly on the face paper and heavily near the edges. The face paper is unrolled sprayed with the face slurry then the core slurry is poured over before the back paper is laid on. This is done intentionally to reduce handling damage during delivery.
Your videos have never wasted my time. Sometimes I watch them a few times (a month or so apart) just to try to absorb all the details. As an amateur I usually start somewhere near the middle (on walls) just to get two or three in place so I can let go of the board. I've always done the edges last.
As a life long pro commercial carpenter, I have experienced this 1000's of times. It does NOT happen to all sheetrock, but usually to the rock that has sat on the job for days and started to dry-out in the heat. We try not to add screws in the factory edges until the "adjacent" sheet is being hung (ceiling or wall). That allows for "blowout bumps" when screwing seams. Anyway, you can also take your hammer and just dent the board at the point you want to add a screw. It allows the screw to set perfectly. Nice to see you using a HILTI gun. Best sheetrock auto-feed guns ever made. Keep the videos coming...! GREAT JOB
Thanks! I do the same thing about hanging the adjacent sheet first. That was one of the first thing I learned on the job from an old taper back when I first started my carpentry apprenticeship. We were doing reno's in highrises and the taper was helping us hang the board. He taught me to use the router too.
@@vancouvercarpenter I just realized that I hadn't sub'ed to your channel. Doh! Oversight rectified. BTW, my wife loves listening to your videos as well...I am not sure how to feel about that...LOL
Thank you for clarifying that. We were struggling with RC and finally stopped putting screws in the bevel, not knowing why the edge was a problem. Feel great, now knowing the problem.
Ben you could do a video on drill speeds. I started out working nights and weekend with my dad as a kid. He worked at a fastener wholesale, but always was drywall taping painting tiling fence building etc after hours. We originally had a corded Makita, then bought a corded Milwaukee which spun so fast you almost couldn't push hard enough to keep up with the screw going in and lots improper screws ensued. Returned that and got the corded bigger wattage DeWalt and never looked back. We aquired the lower wattage DeWalt screwgun which is terrible! Its the opposite effect of the bigger wattage "perfect speed" DeWalt. That said for all my jobs now I have the compact 18 volt Makita I bought for 1/2 price from the HD rental shop. Also on drywall hole cutters, corded drywall saws (Makita one is money) I should check that you already haven't done these.
when mounting coat racks, cabinets etc i use grk screw. they go thru the wood and self tap into the metal studs. very rugged construction screws with #25 torx heads.
As I mention elsewhere, here in AU, we use stud adhesive pretty much all of the time. SO, we don't need to screw at the edge of the board. Stud adhesive is actually stronger than screws, because it bonds a 2 or 3 inch round circle on the back of the board. Having demo'd some plaster board, I can tell you this is true. If you put blobs of adhesive along the edge of the board, you only need to put screws some way back from the edge. Assuming the frame is something like straight. We pretty much only use one type of screw here that would be fine threaded .... we call them "bugle heads". They seem to hold well enough in both metal and timber.
Yep I go right where the bevel starts. Also in my experience for whatever reason its the cordless drills that will strip screws more frequently. Corded ones don't seem to do it as often. I try to use my corded Hilti for standups and save the cordless for structural studs or topout where a stripped screw here and there doesn't matter so much.
predrill. There have been many times where I've had to install a screw next to a blown out edge where I couldn't risk it crumbling apart and pre-drilling kept things intact. So you can either spend a couple extra seconds pre-drilling or several minutes getting mad that things aren't connecting
Another thing that helps is never use anything lighter than 20 ga studs. The big box home centers typically carry 25 ga...which is really only good as a straight edge... 😂. In commercial applications, we're standing our drywall, so we have no choice but to use the compressed tapered edge. I've learned to just avoid 25ga if at all possible. I can't say I've ever had an issue with stripping on 20ga.
Exactly. I special order the 20 Guage. I had a few 25 mixed in. Boy the guy screwing was pissed. I laughed cause I knew there only a couple junk studs.
I have 25ga on isomax resilient channel clips for my walls and ceiling but I’m thinking I should use 20ga for my ceiling. DIY a home music studio / theater. (22’x12’).
I'm getting ready to build a pony wall for a friend who owns a restaurant, I'll be using steel studs and then putting USG Fiberock backer board on the framing, which corner bead do you recommend for this type of installation. And what type of mud should I use to inbed the corner bead.
yes but when you are hanging vertical sheets on metal studs which is common every single joint on a stud is going to be at the edge of the bevel. even worse. So this video really doesn't address a problem
How would you attach a wooden cleat thats half inch thick to an office drywall when you dont know what kind of studs…a long thin thread drywall screw and hopefully catch a stud or some type of anchor?! Ty anyone for your input.
I notice you have an angled ceiling behind you. I have a basement window that’s frame is higher than the ceiling and that angle may work for me. Do you have any tutorials on framing that angled ceiling?
great videos. very helpful. A quick question... do you have any tips for attaching baseboards to metal studs? In process of trimming out a new basement, and a few tests with a 16 ga nail weren't successful in grabbing the metal stud securely. Thanks in advance.
Un saludo Ben, ojala pudieras algun dia editar tus videos con subtitulos en español, soy un seguidor y te agradezco que comprtas tu conocimiento, he aptendido mucho con tus videos, acabo de sacar mi titulacion oficial de instalador de drywall, un saludo
I’m hanging my ceiling with 5/8” in RC1Pro channel and was stripping almost everything using my cordless drywall gun… I tried my cordless impact with a dimpler and for some reason that worked. Bummer my drywall gun isn’t working but at least I have an alternative.
What size screw worked for you? Typical #6 fine thread? I’m using metal hat channel on special acoustic resilient clips and my number six fine thread self tapping screws were stripping pretty easily until I changed. However I’d still like to try something a little bigger like number six or number eight to reinforce.
Hi Ben. Always enjoy your videos. The screws you’re using to screw into the metal frame appear to be wood screws. One would think metal screws which aren’t as coarse wouldn’t strip out so easily. Cheers 🇦🇺
@@vancouvercarpenter Really? Fine thread into light guage steel stud? I always order coarse thread by any metal below 3mm but I'm not a drywaller (I'm a Facade Designer - cladding, curtain wall, glazing, etc)
Our problem is that contractors use their impact drivers with the TEK screws we supply, and Impact drivers are notorious for ripping the heads off the screws!
I been a union carpenter for a long time dont use self tapers on light gauge it will strip most of the time use wood screws pointers on light gauge metal and they will never strip…. Southwest carpenters local909 and I’m a drywall contractor all we use is pointers on light gauge
Screw into the hard side not the soft side. When you have a seam, screw the hard side first and then the soft side. The hard side is the side with the face, and the soft side is the side with the open channel.
May I ask what kind of screws I should use for screwing things into steel stud? I want to hang shelves, etc. And what's the best way to find the stud? Thank you
Depends on what you're fastening to the studs. Metal studs don't hold as much as wood. Typically a fine thread sharp point screw for lighter gauge metal. I've found that Spax brand screws have great holding power in metal studs for attaching shelving standards. As far as finding studs, use a strong magnet to find the drywall screws beneath the paint, set a vertical laser line at that point, and there you go. Hopefully the stud is plumb...😳!
Can't you change the clutch setting? I said before, I don't drywall for a living, but cordless drills and a magnetic bit with a drywall screw sleeve are sold. Then set the clutch lower so tight gets tight and edges don't get stripped. I don't know.
I put steel studs on my ceiling and use 1/2" dry wall. And not a single screw is fighting on it and it's driving me crazy. I'm just going to get won't 2/6s next time to sister to the ceiling joist.
Next time point or use images that highlight the location bc as a DIYer I'm still confused. My entire condo is metal studs and concrete but I need to screw in a closet.
New generation of steel studs are not even 25ga(.18 mil) now its like ,15mil which is thinner than 25gauge. Thats the problem. by doing that manufacturer saves %10 more
Is there a reason why you guys rev it up to 5000 rpm then slam it home? I imagine this is a gun with a special drywall tip that disengages from the fastener when it hits home, but doesn't the nature of high rpm without a clutch mechanism contribute to stripping screws?
I don’t understand why anyone would build a house out of steel. Wood is a hundred times easier to work with, you don’t get shards of metal flying everywhere when you cut it, it’s not so thin that screws have nothing to grip on, it not electrically conductive so you don’t have to worry about shorts, the edges aren’t as sharp as razors, so many reasons to use wood. If you screw up a hole you can fill it with wood and drill again. You can glue it, you can nail it, you can screw it, hell you can use bailing wire if you have to. Metal lasts a long time and doesn’t rot. If you protect your house and don’t let termites in wood lasts a long time and doesn’t rot either. The advantages of steel over wood are negligible, not worth the hassle.
@@frayedinsanity we use steel in residential down south. Steel doesnt deal with the poor quality of 2x4s Steel doesnt cause screw pops Steel doesnt leave wavy walls Wood has to be treated prior to hanging Termites are a problem. Water damage can be way more of an issue. Id take metal framing allllllllll day over the issues we run into with wood framed houses.
I've found it's a regional thing. When I went to India I actually had a bunch of Indians asking me why we use wood to build our houses. (I'm from the Pacific Northwest, USA.) They reasoned that surely other materials like steel and concrete and tile and things like that would last much longer than wood, and besides that, "it's a waste of trees." But it's a different environment over there and trees actually were hard to find in the area I visited. The concept of using wood to build houses with was just totally foreign to them. They also have a monsoon season so I'm pretty sure if they built their structures out of wood they wouldn't last too long soaking in flood waters during the rainy season.
Ben I used to work for a US board manufacturer, you're correct the edges are harder but it's not from compressing the bevel. There are 2 types of slurry that fill a board during manufacture: the core essentially has soap which traps a little air to make board lighter, the second slurry is a layer without bubbles and designed to be harder which is spread thinly on the face paper and heavily near the edges. The face paper is unrolled sprayed with the face slurry then the core slurry is poured over before the back paper is laid on. This is done intentionally to reduce handling damage during delivery.
Great info. Thanks Joe!
That all makes sense.
That's so cool. Thanks for telling us. It's really interesting.
Straight from the source
Your videos have never wasted my time. Sometimes I watch them a few times (a month or so apart) just to try to absorb all the details. As an amateur I usually start somewhere near the middle (on walls) just to get two or three in place so I can let go of the board. I've always done the edges last.
As a life long pro commercial carpenter, I have experienced this 1000's of times. It does NOT happen to all sheetrock, but usually to the rock that has sat on the job for days and started to dry-out in the heat. We try not to add screws in the factory edges until the "adjacent" sheet is being hung (ceiling or wall). That allows for "blowout bumps" when screwing seams. Anyway, you can also take your hammer and just dent the board at the point you want to add a screw. It allows the screw to set perfectly. Nice to see you using a HILTI gun. Best sheetrock auto-feed guns ever made. Keep the videos coming...! GREAT JOB
Thanks! I do the same thing about hanging the adjacent sheet first. That was one of the first thing I learned on the job from an old taper back when I first started my carpentry apprenticeship. We were doing reno's in highrises and the taper was helping us hang the board. He taught me to use the router too.
@@vancouvercarpenter I just realized that I hadn't sub'ed to your channel. Doh! Oversight rectified. BTW, my wife loves listening to your videos as well...I am not sure how to feel about that...LOL
Amazing video so helpful while also being entertaining and also helps when you need it.
Keep up the amazing work Ben.
Thank you for clarifying that. We were struggling with RC and finally stopped putting screws in the bevel, not knowing why the edge was a problem. Feel great, now knowing the problem.
Ben you could do a video on drill speeds. I started out working nights and weekend with my dad as a kid. He worked at a fastener wholesale, but always was drywall taping painting tiling fence building etc after hours. We originally had a corded Makita, then bought a corded Milwaukee which spun so fast you almost couldn't push hard enough to keep up with the screw going in and lots improper screws ensued. Returned that and got the corded bigger wattage DeWalt and never looked back. We aquired the lower wattage DeWalt screwgun which is terrible! Its the opposite effect of the bigger wattage "perfect speed" DeWalt. That said for all my jobs now I have the compact 18 volt Makita I bought for 1/2 price from the HD rental shop. Also on drywall hole cutters, corded drywall saws (Makita one is money) I should check that you already haven't done these.
I love your taper impressions
Love this guy!
Great content!
Awesome video
Thanks for reading our comments and making a follow-up video you the man
My pleasure!
Good video, thanks 😊
Perfect timing... have a Steel Stud job tomorrow.
when mounting coat racks, cabinets etc i use grk screw. they go thru the wood and self tap into the metal studs. very rugged construction screws with #25 torx heads.
New to all this. This is gold.
As I mention elsewhere, here in AU, we use stud adhesive pretty much all of the time.
SO, we don't need to screw at the edge of the board.
Stud adhesive is actually stronger than screws, because it bonds a 2 or 3 inch round circle on the back of the board.
Having demo'd some plaster board, I can tell you this is true.
If you put blobs of adhesive along the edge of the board, you only need to put screws some way back from the edge. Assuming the frame is something like straight.
We pretty much only use one type of screw here that would be fine threaded .... we call them "bugle heads".
They seem to hold well enough in both metal and timber.
Yep I go right where the bevel starts. Also in my experience for whatever reason its the cordless drills that will strip screws more frequently. Corded ones don't seem to do it as often. I try to use my corded Hilti for standups and save the cordless for structural studs or topout where a stripped screw here and there doesn't matter so much.
It must be the cordless ones losing torque as the load increases.
predrill. There have been many times where I've had to install a screw next to a blown out edge where I couldn't risk it crumbling apart and pre-drilling kept things intact. So you can either spend a couple extra seconds pre-drilling or several minutes getting mad that things aren't connecting
Another thing that helps is never use anything lighter than 20 ga studs. The big box home centers typically carry 25 ga...which is really only good as a straight edge... 😂. In commercial applications, we're standing our drywall, so we have no choice but to use the compressed tapered edge. I've learned to just avoid 25ga if at all possible. I can't say I've ever had an issue with stripping on 20ga.
Exactly. I special order the 20 Guage. I had a few 25 mixed in. Boy the guy screwing was pissed. I laughed cause I knew there only a couple junk studs.
I have 25ga on isomax resilient channel clips for my walls and ceiling but I’m thinking I should use 20ga for my ceiling. DIY a home music studio / theater. (22’x12’).
Yes you got it. Also if you go slow with the rpm’s or use wood screws help sometimes. Not all sheets are the same and some studs are plain old junk.
I'm getting ready to build a pony wall for a friend who owns a restaurant, I'll be using steel studs and then putting USG Fiberock backer board on the framing, which corner bead do you recommend for this type of installation. And what type of mud should I use to inbed the corner bead.
I learned a lot from this video.
yes but when you are hanging vertical sheets on metal studs which is common every single joint on a stud is going to be at the edge of the bevel. even worse. So this video really doesn't address a problem
I had no intention of learning something today......Dammit Ben
I would like to see an video on how you put up that pull bar behind you.
How would you attach a wooden cleat thats half inch thick to an office drywall when you dont know what kind of studs…a long thin thread drywall screw and hopefully catch a stud or some type of anchor?! Ty anyone for your input.
I notice you have an angled ceiling behind you. I have a basement window that’s frame is higher than the ceiling and that angle may work for me. Do you have any tutorials on framing that angled ceiling?
great videos. very helpful. A quick question... do you have any tips for attaching baseboards to metal studs? In process of trimming out a new basement, and a few tests with a 16 ga nail weren't successful in grabbing the metal stud securely. Thanks in advance.
Just use adhesive when installing. Something like PL premium works great.
Un saludo Ben, ojala pudieras algun dia editar tus videos con subtitulos en español, soy un seguidor y te agradezco que comprtas tu conocimiento, he aptendido mucho con tus videos, acabo de sacar mi titulacion oficial de instalador de drywall, un saludo
I love you videos. Can you do one on why the hell drywall screw manufacturers can't make a product thats not full of metal filings?
Top Tip👍
I’m hanging my ceiling with 5/8” in RC1Pro channel and was stripping almost everything using my cordless drywall gun… I tried my cordless impact with a dimpler and for some reason that worked. Bummer my drywall gun isn’t working but at least I have an alternative.
What size screw worked for you? Typical #6 fine thread? I’m using metal hat channel on special acoustic resilient clips and my number six fine thread self tapping screws were stripping pretty easily until I changed. However I’d still like to try something a little bigger like number six or number eight to reinforce.
Hi Ben. Always enjoy your videos. The screws you’re using to screw into the metal frame appear to be wood screws. One would think metal screws which aren’t as coarse wouldn’t strip out so easily. Cheers 🇦🇺
Those are fine thread drywall screws intended for light gauge steel stud.
@@vancouvercarpenter Ah! Thank you Ben. Cheers mate.
@@vancouvercarpenter Really? Fine thread into light guage steel stud? I always order coarse thread by any metal below 3mm but I'm not a drywaller (I'm a Facade Designer - cladding, curtain wall, glazing, etc)
Our problem is that contractors use their impact drivers with the TEK screws we supply, and Impact drivers are notorious for ripping the heads off the screws!
I been a union carpenter for a long time dont use self tapers on light gauge it will strip most of the time use wood screws pointers on light gauge metal and they will never strip…. Southwest carpenters local909 and I’m a drywall contractor all we use is pointers on light gauge
What do you mean by outside bevel? Is it right? It's bevel right? Do you mean a seat hole?
Screw into the hard side not the soft side. When you have a seam, screw the hard side first and then the soft side. The hard side is the side with the face, and the soft side is the side with the open channel.
May I ask what kind of screws I should use for screwing things into steel stud? I want to hang shelves, etc. And what's the best way to find the stud? Thank you
Depends on what you're fastening to the studs. Metal studs don't hold as much as wood. Typically a fine thread sharp point screw for lighter gauge metal. I've found that Spax brand screws have great holding power in metal studs for attaching shelving standards.
As far as finding studs, use a strong magnet to find the drywall screws beneath the paint, set a vertical laser line at that point, and there you go. Hopefully the stud is plumb...😳!
Think outside of the bevel. So can you add screws in the bevel after it's screwed down ?
You can try but if they start stripping again it's easier to just not screw in the bevel at all.
@@vancouvercarpenter what about about using adhesive along the bevel if you can't get screws to hold. Or I'm over worried that tape might fail.
Can't you change the clutch setting? I said before, I don't drywall for a living, but cordless drills and a magnetic bit with a drywall screw sleeve are sold. Then set the clutch lower so tight gets tight and edges don't get stripped. I don't know.
I put steel studs on my ceiling and use 1/2" dry wall. And not a single screw is fighting on it and it's driving me crazy. I'm just going to get won't 2/6s next time to sister to the ceiling joist.
For hanging ceiling.... hopefully, the metal studs for the lid are a little thicker gauge than the wall studs, eh?
Not if you don't have the right screws!
👍👍
Next time point or use images that highlight the location bc as a DIYer I'm still confused. My entire condo is metal studs and concrete but I need to screw in a closet.
New generation of steel studs are not even 25ga(.18 mil) now its like ,15mil which is thinner than 25gauge. Thats the problem. by doing that manufacturer saves %10 more
Ben's impression of the butthurt drywaller is dead on
Is there a reason why you guys rev it up to 5000 rpm then slam it home? I imagine this is a gun with a special drywall tip that disengages from the fastener when it hits home, but doesn't the nature of high rpm without a clutch mechanism contribute to stripping screws?
It tends to go in faster and easier when at full speed. Takes a little getting used to the technique but it's more reliable.
It’s a specific drill made for sinking drywall screws. It has a depth stop.
I don’t understand why anyone would build a house out of steel. Wood is a hundred times easier to work with, you don’t get shards of metal flying everywhere when you cut it, it’s not so thin that screws have nothing to grip on, it not electrically conductive so you don’t have to worry about shorts, the edges aren’t as sharp as razors, so many reasons to use wood. If you screw up a hole you can fill it with wood and drill again. You can glue it, you can nail it, you can screw it, hell you can use bailing wire if you have to. Metal lasts a long time and doesn’t rot. If you protect your house and don’t let termites in wood lasts a long time and doesn’t rot either. The advantages of steel over wood are negligible, not worth the hassle.
Steel studs are used in commercial buildings, not residential housing.
@@frayedinsanity we use steel in residential down south.
Steel doesnt deal with the poor quality of 2x4s
Steel doesnt cause screw pops
Steel doesnt leave wavy walls
Wood has to be treated prior to hanging
Termites are a problem. Water damage can be way more of an issue. Id take metal framing allllllllll day over the issues we run into with wood framed houses.
I've found it's a regional thing. When I went to India I actually had a bunch of Indians asking me why we use wood to build our houses. (I'm from the Pacific Northwest, USA.) They reasoned that surely other materials like steel and concrete and tile and things like that would last much longer than wood, and besides that, "it's a waste of trees." But it's a different environment over there and trees actually were hard to find in the area I visited. The concept of using wood to build houses with was just totally foreign to them. They also have a monsoon season so I'm pretty sure if they built their structures out of wood they wouldn't last too long soaking in flood waters during the rainy season.
They have advantages over wood if at least 20ga. But I too like working with wood better.