Delicious in Dungeon
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
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Delicious in Dungeon is a good anime. Listen to me talk about why. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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Irl cats will literally let themselves starve to death if they dont like their food lol. I love Izutsumi, she acts *exactly* like a cat
Imagine that, a teenage catgirl acting like a cat AND a teenage girl. The shock.
And she is literally part cat
Yeah - sure, some cats will eat anything. But some are super picky - I know one that starved himself for days (and probably would've continued) because someone bought a slightly different flavor of his food. He only started eating again after switching it back.
She's a continuation of the central "fantasy tropes but a bit real" theme/joke. She's a catgirl, written by someone who knows a cat. Whether you like her is probably related to how cute you find stupid, mean cats, and possibly how much toxoplasma you have in your brain.
@@jmiller6066Yeah my former stray literal trash cat starved himself for 5 days straight, even to the point of barfing stomach acid from hunger, because I bought a slightly different flavor of the same food. The flavor that he likes wasn’t available, and in the meantime I tried feeding him all sort of different foods. After finally finding the same old flavor, he went back to eating again.
Putting aside your other opinions I disagree with but eh media hits us all differently, I’m actually really sad about your take on Izutsumi’s ‘picky eating’ esp after the praise for how Laios’s autism was handled.
It was honestly so refreshing, when it's so often dismissed as childish, to see Izutsumi get treated with respect for it and have it accommodated as best they could. So often these things are glossed over in shows, and for a bit I thought our only take on it would be Marcilles cultural food hangups which would be treated as a flaw to be overcome. So seeing Izutsumi, and that the story would actually address this topic for once was… amazing, if scary as idk how it’ll be handled fully yet.
I have a lot of difficulties with food from a lot of underlying mental health issues, most other ‘picky eaters’ do too (I’m sure Izutsumi with her cat nose and tongue and many on the spectrum can relate to the sensory hell certain foods can be, as one example). It's always been a huge source of shame and serious difficulty in my life, particularly because so many people view it the way you do in this review. With ridicule and seeing it as unreasonable, as just choosing to be difficult. But asking me or Izutsumi to “just get over it” because it's not convenient right now is every bit as unreasonable as asking Liaos to “just take the hint/read the room”. It's just this behavior is from a disorder you don’t respect.
Sure yes it causes problems! Of course it would, disabilities do that! But honestly, as an anime only, I deeply hope that while Izutsumi becomes less selfish, she DOESN’T stop being a picky eater. That those two things are decoupled from one another! I am so sick of seeing it portrayed as some character flaw people just have to get over whenever it actually comes up. Having someone who doesn’t stop being a 'picky eater' but still has a healthy and respected relationship with food, in a show so focused on the philosophy and morality of food, would be amazing. I don't know if that's how the story will take it, but I hope it does. I'd be really sad to see it treated as a childish flaw here.
All this to say: seeing Izutsumi treated with respect for what food she can and can't eat, and through being treated with respect starting to work with Senshi and doing what she could to compromise, was every bit as therapeutic for me as the Laios/Shuro fight was for those on the spectrum. And I just wish people would treat that with a bit more respect and understanding.
Well said!
I'm not legally allowed to pin this for sponsorship reasons, so would people please upvote it for visibility?
Apparently Kui herself is a picky eater, so it'd make sense that she gives Izutsumi a bit more respect on that than most people would.
Yesssss this. As an extremely picky eater for a combination of taste, texture, and pain reasons, I 100% agree. Like, yes, it presents problems for her and the party because diet restrictions present problems for people as they go through life, but it's not a flaw to be worked through: it's part of who she is. God Ryoko Kui is so good.
Texture hell has made it so difficult for me to enjoy things even if I do find them to be tasty. It’s so bad because if I can’t eat something and it’s the only thing available I will just not eat.
The amount of times I’ve gone to a restaurant and just didn’t order and wait for friends/family to finish their food is absolutely embarrassing. Imagine going to a buffet and getting the same thing every time despite the myriad of options.
But I do hope that Izutsumi can be more curious about foods mostly through smell because at least for me that’s the first thing to get me to try something new.
Bonus points to Delicious in Dungeon for not having ludicrously over-the-top borderline explicit ‘foodgasms’. We can know a character is enjoying their meal without inappropriate moaning.
Well, it's hard to depict the plesentness of a smell, taste and/or texture in a medium that relies only on visuals and sound, so exaggeration of the characters' reactions seems like the easiest way to show it's good instead of just telling you it's good (which can get repetitive and annoying) , but I get what you mean
Food wars
Only Food Wars does that because the over-the-topness is THE SHOW. The only moments I have seen being used in other animes is in a comedic and referencial manner.
Yeah they save that for when Laios discovers a new monster fact
@@sammyjones8279 but also thats made better because they establish that this is in fact a bizarre over the top response in universe as well
Marcille isn't like that because she's a girl, she's like that because she's Italian. It's much better.
13:04: Senshi was certainly not listening to Chilchuck, but he was not trying to get him or anyone else killed on purpose. He set the traps so he can experiment on what can and cannot be used to cook. Despite Chilchuck's demands, Senshi does not actually think they will be in any significant danger. His actions are done without malice because he simply does not sweat danger *unless* that danger is starvation-related, which is a fundamental character trait of his. He is very stubborn about what he believes (for good and bad), but he's certainly not homicidal.
I also don't agree at all that half the party weren't portrayed as having flaws that need to change: Marcille's pickiness gets her into more trouble than it usually should (to the point of seeming incompetent in a way that's *because* she refuses to play along; also the fact that the party needs to preserve the monster corpses to eat also means she can't use her magic as often, which is inherently destructive), as does Senshi, and this is evident even in those early episodes.
Seconding this for EP's visibility. The potential for what "could" have happened should never retroactively color a character's actual intentions to be inherently malicious.
More visibility for this.
Senshi's "bad" moments in episode 2 are incredibly forgivable in context. They're on one of the top (easiest) floors, where people get revived from death literally all of the time by wandering healers whose job is to do just that. Marcille herself is perfectly capable of reviving someone in a pinch as well, and Senshi himself, having been venturing the dungeon for longer than all of the other characters put together, actually does have the experience to know that none of the traps this high up in the dungeon have any chance of seriously hurting him: see that point where he sticks his fingers in boiling oil without pain to test their heat.
In contrast, in Senshi's mind, if a kid like Chilchuck is sweating this early on, then he should be encouraged to just bow out and let the adults handle the rescue mission responsibility, even if said kid has to get seriously hurt in order to change his mind. Chilchuck being a liability further in would be way worse, since he wouldn't have a chance to leave the group by himself or be properly revived if hurt.
This attitude is obviously treated like a flaw in said episode, mainly because chilchuck and his specialty would in no way be a liability, but in context for how Senshi is presumably thinking, I think it's pretty understandable.
Thank you, so glad I wasn't the only one thinking this!!! Senshi is my personal fave from this show, and I was very confused when he called him "homicidal," because I didn't read that scene like that at all. Senshi has been alone for many years at this point in time doing everything to the beat of his own drum, of course suddenly being in a party would present challenges for him! He's unused to considering others during his adventures, so naturally, he wouldn't consult them before doing something, even if that thing could serve as potential danger, because again, he's used to only worrying about himself, and we see firsthand just how nonchalant he is about most of the dangers in the dungeon. And since HE doesn't view them as a danger to HIM, he likely wouldn't view them as a danger to anyone else, either. He's also very prideful and thinks he knows everything about the dungeon, which fair, he has lived there and thrived for years at that point, and that leads him to be dismissive of characters like Marcil and Chilchuck when they freak out over things that are no big deal to him. To me, these are simply character flaws that we get to see him overcome.
thank u for this comment!!
Also, he's been in that Dungeon for a long-ass time too
This show is honestly the peak of “let them cook” cause the second season is about to be WILD
also the reason marcille is Like That is because she’s italian /j /lh
Cant wait for anime onlies to see the craziness thats about to come
One hint ill give to anime onlies -
DDR - Dance Dance Rabbitloution
"you don't come here for the plot" I completely disagree, season 1 was mostly just setting up the world and characters- the dense, slowly building plot in here is just as yummy as the character writing and world building, it just doesn't want to overshadow the rest of the story too much! (To any anime onlys reading this comment: please god read the manga, it's only 14vol long and it's complete)
I also want to say that the others in the comments rebutting your takes on Izitsumi and Senshi are 100% right, and while I understand that you're trying to make a short video review and can't get into all the nuances of each character and how that's tied to their behaviors, I think you could've and should've been more charitable to them.
I also think it's a major oversight to leave out how all of our characters are initially portrayed as classic fantasy classes, and then they subvert your expectations as you realize they're whole ass people and not cardboard cutouts with tropes taped to them.
That being said, I'm still excited to see your Apothecary's Diary video and more of your stuff in general!
Agree with pretty much everything but the part about the character's initial presentation, I never got the impression that they were cardboard cutputs of the classic d&d classes, the character starts shining through pretty early imo.
The plot of the second season is going to be fire
I would say if we're only looking at S1, the plot is really still being set up - it's primarily character-driven, which is its strength.
S2 though, especially towards the ending... Yeah, that'll be another matter.
I strongly disagree on Senshi's motives. He's at WORST trying to prove they're overreacting because he's lived here like 60 years the traps never hurt him. Dismissing that they could know his own home better than he does indeed almost gets people hurt, but that's not homicidal tendencies. That's the stubbornness of your dad not calling a repairman because he's sure he can fix it himself. Given he's near immune to heat and can easily tank hits that send others flying, it just reads to me as having forgot others aren't as durable since he's been by himself for decades. Plus he thinks Chilchuck's a child at this point, of course he wants to handle things his way over what he sees as an overcautious kid with something to prove. He immediately learns and grows from it, like every mistake he makes.
I get that you're focusing on the negative to make a point. You did give it an 8 after all, and you obviously liked it quite a bit once it got going. and I understand the characterization qualms, even if I don't agree. Marcelle's bit didn't grate on me any quicker than it was supposed to, and the characters were half of what got me interested from the start as I assume they were for most, but that's definitely down to differing taste. I do heartily disagree however that it doesn't do anything new. The focus on ecology is especially top notch and not like anything I've seen before, same with some of the worldbuilding, though I admit many of the unique character beats haven't fully started shining through yet. It puts on airs of the standard fantasy, but Dungeon Meshi is very unlike its peers despite the initial setup. It's well unlike anything I've seen in the 24 years since I started watching anime and reading manga. To me it came off as something unique right from the start, and just got rapidly better. You say the storybuilding is weaker than re zero and mushoku tensei, and it's the first criticism you've ever levied where I'm left wondering how we watched the same show.
Itzumi is definitely the most controversial part of the show though. Her being annoying is supposed to be the point at first, as Ryoko Kui isn't shy about showing the flaws of a character you just met. And an abused teenage cat person who's actually written like a semi-feral cat which is a person SHOULD have flaws. Though that changes...right where the season ended actually. It was a good call to end right before her character arc kicks off, but the downside is that she's not exactly at her character's highest point atm. Whether it ever gets high enough to be warranted is the subject of fierce debate.
I dunno. Claiming that a series in which magic armor is mollusks, mimics are hermit crabs, and changelings are mushrooms doesn't have a fresh and interesting take on western folklore is surely a take. It's got to be at least a deconstructed cheeseburger, right?
Only Changelings are from folklore, Mimics and Living Armor come from DnD.
@@malcomalexander9437 Fair enough, I could have been more precise.
They're new implementations, yes, but I don't think they're enough to qualify the show as particularly original in fantasy terms. The living armors and mimics still serve very similar purposes as they always do in a dungeon delve, it's just that the precise mechanics have been somewhat re-imagined to fit with the series' more naturalistic low-magic vibe. That naturalistic vibe certainly helps Dungeon Meshi stand out, especially amongst the glut of lazy isekai worldbuilding we've gotten over the last decade, but it's hardly the first series to take the approach. It's not interested in turning anything on its head. The show simply fine-tunes things to fit the story it's telling.
I'd argue a cheeseburger, but with bison or elk instead of beef, or a more exotic cheese than your usual American or Cheddar. A deconstructed cheeseburger would be... well, a deconstruction of the Fantasy setting. Goblin Slayer and the earlier parts of Berserk are ones that come to mind. Basically, taking it apart and viewing it bit by bit, making you ask "hey, what if it sucked to live in Fantasy world?" This one plays the Cheeseburger (fantasy) completely straight, but has some extra twists in there that can catch people off guard in a good way.
@@malcomalexander9437 yeah but the takes on them are wholly unique and original? Thus the deconstructed burger metaphor?
You skipped every point that made this show unique and then stated it wasn't unique. You praised this show for making the characters well balanced by their back stories then complained that the character that was raised as a sideshow freak wasn't a well rounded person. You skipped over the whole ecology/science angle like it wasn't even there. You didn't even mention the amazingly unique character designs, the racial relationships/politics that flavor the whole world, (oh yeah, there's politics does not count) and the real world counterparts of the conditions the characters suffer fro.. sure, you mentioned Laios's autism, but Senshi, Chilchuck, and Izitsumi are all suffering from just staggering amounts of PTSD, while Marcille has Affluenza and survivors guilt. The 'annoying cat girl' is a picky eater because the food that goes into her mouth is literally the only thing she's ever had control over. This dismissive review is the kind of thing I'd expect from the person who complained there aren't enough titties and 'splosions. You gave it a cursory glance and that's all you gave it.
1,000% agree. i think this is the first time that expoint has disappointed me.
edit:typo
Marcille also clearly had some severe anxiety issues. She’s always panicking. And it does make since Senshi would be so stubborn, he’s the oldest guy there.
Sometimes when ppl get told to review things they’re not into, they try to justify why something didn’t work for them by just pretending it’s not there or claiming it didn’t work out on a mechanical level rather than admitting the series just didn’t hit for them due to preferences.
I was unsure on watching the vid cuz of the title (and being wary of Dunmeshi reviews cuz they have no qualms on spoiling ppl), but thanks for this comment. Helps me to steer clear. No need to watch a review that refuses to engage with the material presented.
you put this so well!! i was already feeling uneasy the moment falin was referred to as a macguffin and it only went downhill from there
Yeah, when he said he only watched it because his patrons made him I kinda started to check out of it. He didn't really have much to say here, just making a video because he promised to make it.
@@Skittikyu yeeah she is auristic as well. Plus its really shown they are in a desperate bad place at the start, so of course they would be not in the best mood.
And marcelia being more high strung and still going there shoew a lot how much she cares. Plus yeah she really gets more interesting upon seeing she is as weird.
I never ever interpreted Senshi in episode 2 as triggering the traps on purpose, just him continuing to be careless, as he was before, not paying attention to the effects of that. Still not a good moment for him, but not as homicidal as you interpreted it lol.
ExplanationPoint has a tendency to be astronomically judgemental. Bro needs a chill pill prescription.
13:00 I didn't see Senshi like this _at all._ To me, he seemed incredibly stubborn and unused to working with other people. This almost got everyone else killed or hurt, and he learned to stop doing that very quickly. "Making stubborn mistakes and learning from them," is how I would define Senshi's chief behavioral characteristic, and that describes his actions in that episode.
@@66Roses his actual chief behavioural characteristic is caring for others, especially those he sees as younger because of what he went through with the other dwarves in the flashback episode.
right? It reads to me like your dad blundering his attempt to help you do something, because he's done this for 30 years and doesn't understand things have changed since his day. Traps haven't hurt HIM in 60 years, so why would they start now? Not understanding it's because many are after the rest of the party, or go over his head but not thiers. Or involve fire, which doesn't hurt dwarves. Yeah he doesn't pay attention at first, if you could stick your finger in frying oil without issue and hadn't seen someone who couldn't, could absorb hits that sent Liaos flying, you might also forget it's more than a semi-painful inconvenience for others. He plays a lot nicer once he learns this.
@@GeraltofRivia22 Yeah, his compassion is his primary virtue. I would say pride is his major flaw. He has a certain way of doing things and doesn't deviate from that unless he has to. However, when he _does_ have to, he learns and accepts the new behavior quickly.
That lines up well with his general aversion to magic and his behaviour in the kelpie episode as well. He starts out completely unwilling to use magic but by the end is even willing to let Marcille help wash his beard to make sure the spell works properly.
Much like how Senshi and his way of doing things clashed with Chilchuck in the episode where traps were a focal point, Senshi again clashes with Marcille when the use of magic first becomes an actual necessity, and he again (albeit briefly) puts himself/ the party in danger by not recognising the Kelpie as a monster that could potentially harm him or the others, the same way he didn't seem to regard the traps as being a legitimate threat.
I gotta say...I dont see it? Like, your major complaint is that the characters are annoying early on, but I could count on one hand the number of anime without annoying characters. Something about the style, culture, medium or audience compels authors to write characters in such a bizzarely detached way I will never understand. Marcille is, at her worst, a cartoon character with how exaggerated her disgust is but like...I'm surprised at how contained it is compared to other anime
Its a personal gripe and thats fine. I was fine with it too but different people have different tolerances for this kinda thing.
@Kiyokoghurt Spudsbuchlaw isn't saying explanation point's tolerance is too low, they're pointing out a contradiction.
Yeah, like, for all the complaints levied towards early-season Marcille, the girls of KonoSuba are WAY more pronounced. And Aqua is in my top 50 anime characters of all time, just because she's a whiny useless goddess.
compared to Zenitsu Marcille is a walk in the park lol
Autistic cats are gonna have safe foods too, don’t be mean to the autistic cat teenager
^THIS.
You have no idea how many years it took me to start liking mashed potatoes. (And I still don't like the instant kind that come in flakes, because the texture and flavor are just ASS. Give me REAL FUCKING POTATOES.)
She has the angri autsim, Laios as the "god gave me a mouth and you *will* suffer for this decision" autsim. They are both good. ❤
@@Bluecho4 Isn't mash potato = Potato + Butter + salt + milk?
It still taste like potato though
Maybe you could add ketchup or hot sauce
Yeah I was like, isn't that kind of strange for mr youtuber to praise Laois's depiction of autism with understanding then turn around and be harsh to another clearly autistic character for displaying a trait that real life autistic people often display? (Having issues with certain foods that non-autistic people can't imagine having issues with for reasons non-autistic people don't understand or can't imagine, which leads to them not being able to articulate why they don't want to eat those foods and being labelled as "picky eaters")
@bachtrinh8783 there is also texture, not just taste. Oftentimes autistic people who object to certain foods object because of the texture. No matter how it tastes, if the physical sensation of a food entering your mouth ans go down your throat makes your skin crawl, then you're not going to like it, and your body's reflexes are going to see it as an unwelcome contaminant and try to protect you from it in the sane way your body protects you from eating random mud you found from the ground. (It makes it difficult for you to even just pick it up and put it in your mouth.)
"i respect other people's opinions", i repeat in a mantra as an aniyoutuber i normally enjoy calls dunmeshi's plot and storybuilding "weak compared to other shows of its kind" and the 'other shows of its kind' they put on screen as examples are fucking re zero and mushoku tensei
being so so brave right now
Re zero is great, but Dunmeshi 100% does theirs better. Re zero has excellent world building but the exposition is delivered way worse. There’s a reason so much of it was cut from the anime, cuz unlike Dunmeshi it’s delivered in a way that’s less diagetic.
Can’t speak for MT, since i avoid any stories that associate children with sex, but if it’s like re zero then I can easily say Dunmeshi is better.
real
Yeah, I have suffered through MT in hopes that it gets better, but it's worldbuilding is just typical fantasy trite. "Here is humans, here is demons, magic is a thing"
Are you genuinely angry?
Marcille actively trying to find ways to eat normal food and having lines in the sand she morally wont cross was fine for me tbh.
And izutsumi is not a cat 'Girl' shes a 'Cat' girl, and i feel that is very resolutely the point of her being standoffish and picky. If you dont find a way more honest depiction of a cat person party member entertaining fair enough.
The senshi take is wild tho, hes not trying to hurt people and hed never ro that hes trying to acclimate them to life in the dungeon not being as intimidating as they think. And hes underestimating the dungeon now that he has people following him around.
Also evil orcs? wtf dude
Orcs murdered an entire Tavern of people in our first introduction to them and are responsible for their own current living situation because they couldn’t figure out pillage will piss people off.
I love that shows like this and Frieren are bringing back traditional fantasy in anime. So sick of isekai.
I'm incredibly thankful. Things were pretty bad for a while. We got so far into the 'isekai event horizon' that I'd begun to hear the phrase "native isekai" to describe fantasy stories...
You can still see a bit of Isekai DNA in both shows but they both cut out the worst aspects of the genre
Isekai is the main reason for anime.. You just don't feel it . Frieren ? Yeah sure . Only one word for Frieren, slow . Because she's elf.. So everything is so slow in there.. And I love it . But the best ? That's for the outsider..
@@_Ciosu..nah.
@@_Ciosu.. You write comments like a Dark Souls character talks
you swing and miss me. Its wild how different your take, your complaints and what you praise are to what I enjoy about this Show. Personally I like the characters more than Frieren.
We desperately need more true Fantasy shows, and the characters and world are its biggest strength.
It is important to poiny out senshi, having never seen a half-foot before, legit thinks chilchuck is way younger than he is. Chilchuck is middle aged, iterally planning to retire after this adventure, but by dwarve standarts he looks like early teenage, and his age would put him in that stage as a dwarf. So senshi legit thinks chilchuck is a child overthinkinh small dangers as big ones, when he is in fact a middle aged guy who has experience working in dungeons and takes his job disarming traps serious.
Wdym marcille is light handed??? Shes so rough handed that her healing HURTS. ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO. Her attacks are all to blow shit up?? I dont understand????
this is the chilliest, most mature and critical comment section I've ever seen. mad respect to both expoint fans and dunme fans
I don't know, my guy. Normally I agree with most of what you say but this one was a huge miss for me. I love this show, and it seems like you like it, too, eventually. But the way you describe this (especially the earlier episodes and character moments) makes me feel like we watched two completely different shows. I do not recognize the scenes you are trying to describe because I saw them so entirely differently. I really could not disagree harder on so many of your takes about the plot and characters. This feels like a really bitter, cynical take on the characters from someone who went in hoping they would find something to hate in the show, twisting every character moment into "what can I hate about this" as fast as possible. It's deeply confusing to me that you described it all so horribly yet seem to hold a positive opinion of the show overall, if I understand you correctly. I don't get it. I am confused.
I think this is your worst and most mean-spirited video. I know it's ultimately meaningless but I honestly think I might unsubscribe after many years of being a watcher of the channel if this level of confusing, shallow, hate-watching rambling becomes the format we see. This video was so disappointing to watch through and if this sort of spiteful, malicious interpretation of everything is going to become the norm for the brand of analysis on this channel then I really don't want to stick around.
and to be clear, izutsumi is *like that* because she's a (maladapted and spoiled) 17-year-old
Also she was clearly a slave or prisoner of some kind to the woman mage in Shuro’s party. Also she’s a cat they tend to be jerks in the beginning
plus, yknow, cat
@@andylozano5193 shuro really slaves? no dignity!
Yeah she def improves a lot. I found it more difficult to enjoy her early on compared to the others (I liked them off the bat), but came to like her.
i really like how she is 17 and really shows it in her maturity. in most anime it seems like 17 is more mature than the average character, who is 15 or 16. but this show of adult characters has a child in it and she actually acts like a child.
I'm convinced people saying chars start awful are people who think only the mc of a jrpg should have screen time bc people really seem to hate it when people are actual people and don't just want to get along.
Plus all early character actions are explained via backstory
much as I love Dungeon Meshi Marcille does start kind of annoying, and it's a problem made worse in the anime because you can't just skim over those panels. I'm all for flawed characters but within a story you reach a level of "okay we get the point, we understand this trait, can we just get to where we all know this scene is going?" It's a problem a lot of manga comedy has when translating to anime, really. An extended version of the "reaction shot" problem where something that your eyes are meant to glance over as they travel across the page instead has to completely halt the scene because that's just how much time it takes to actually show this thing.
What do you do with all the time you save by typing words like char mc jrpg and bc instead of the whole word.
Complaining about the "reaction image is a literal zoom-in of the previous shot" gags outs you as someone who hasn't read the manga, and so can't appreciate how well the joke is translated. It's not lazy, it's intentional. Same with complaining about the plot or lack thereof. Season 1 contains a lot of setup for the overarching plot that hasn't been paid off yet. The search for Falin is part of that, and so are the Canaries and the political powerplays, but. That's. Not enough to describe the whole plot.
You should not watch just 3 episodes, because it starts off real slow. You gotta watch like. 11. Not because it "gets good", but because it takes a while for DunMeshi to actually show more of its hand. It needs the first slower episodes to show you the status quo, so that you know what state the characters want the world to return to. It helps you understand the characters, the world, the specific dungeon better. Also because that one shot. You know the one. That One in episode 11. That Shot.
Also Izutsumi's primary character trait is that she's avoids stuff she doesn't like because she is both a cat and a teenager. And because of what I can only call trauma reasons. Toshiro's family wasn't bad to her, but. Well. You'll see.
I think even from ep 4 on dunmeshi shows that there is a lot going to happen and more to the story. The orcs make Laios question what will happen if he succeeds, and also the orc clash with society and marcille's racism. Ep5 starts with a total different group that the gang finds knocked out later on. There's theliving painting scenes, there's the dungeon ecology starting to change, there's themes about souls and resurrection in ep 8,-9, the secret knowledge of the dungeon, etc etc. I'm not gonna say wow this is like groundbreaking storytelling, but it's damn good and well paced imo (along with the other qualities)
>outs you as someone who hasn't read the manga
And...? What can you only watch a anime if you've read the manga first?
>joke is translated. It's not lazy, it's intentional.
It's a bad joke.
i generally agree with your videos but i'm really falling into the common opinion down here. i think if the anime started with them not having these personality clashes it wouldn't be half as fun to see them grow, and i hate to say it but i think reducing marcille down to the "girl" character is kinda reductive but not in the cute way. her aversion to the food makes her dedication to saving falin all the more special. she voices problems with monster food that chilchuck just experiences quietly. she is feminine, yes, but i feel that this is secondary to being academic. you recognize that shes a scholar and how its interesting that this clashes with senshi's practical knowledge, its not hard to see that she acts this way because shes treading unexplored and possibly dangerous territory by eating stuff that she believes could kill her (and if she dies, the whole expedition fails since she is the only one capable of resurrection magic). i say this with no intention of dissing your character because i am a longtime fan and know you hold generally progressive opinions on this, and im not saying this just because i like the show, the way you describe marcille feels misogynist. you take a lot of issue with her prissyness and never chilchuck's when he also complains and was literally going to leave the team because he didn't know how to communicate his feelings. all of the characters have their own personality quirks that can grate against you until they grow, and your opinion on senshi is also whack but its fine, but its just really weird to even say that marcille isnt important to the plot. shes what makes the macguffin go! its through her struggles that we learn about lifespan differences, magic, any worldbuilding that isnt strictly individual monsters or politics. i dont know man, weird take.
"...the way you describe marcille feels misogynist."
Oh thank god, it wasn't just me. I think it was mostly the general dismissive attitude towards her character as a whole. It feels uncomfortably similar to IRL dismissiveness I've experienced (mostly from cis men) where people just assume I don't know what I'm doing or talking about because I'm a woman.
From the 3 episodes I saw, it definitely felt like a bad recurring gag "I won't eat this I won't eat this I won't- oh, it's delicious!" And I agree that eventually she should figure out she'll like what the Dwarf is cooking. I don't think he's dismissing her as the girl character, he's just commenting on the trope of many shows only having one woman character. In this case it's the picky eater lady (again, maybe she has a tragic backstory in episode 5. I didn't get to it)
@@Alkeeros i know how it can feel like a bad gag, but it really is important narratively. Every other person they meet is disguised by monster food even as a concept. Having the scholar take so long to accept it drives home both how unusual it is and how dedicated she is to the team despite her feelings. There's also the element of how she's conscious that the more she accepts weird food, the more her team is going to push her boundaries (like being anti cannibalism). And as I mentioned, if anything happens to her their entire operation is cooked. I don't think she needs a sad backstory to justify this concern, she just needs a dedication that the narrative thoroughly established. Explanation Point giving her so little patience when interpersonal conflicts are usually why he likes anime, dismissing her as unrelated to the plot when she's a driving force and directly connected to the main character, and constantly calling her the "girl" when she's an autonomous intelligent woman with a degree in illegal explosives and dark magic... feels misogynist.
Like the others, I don't like how you glossed over the ecology (and cooking). Almost every youtuber does that and I hate it, because those aspects grounds and develops the themes and character growth. It's also what makes it very unique from other fantasy stories, the only anime that I know of with such attention to detail to ecology is heavenly designers (and those animals were real). You didn't even talk about the dishes and the care to portray the ingredients correctly, how they use parts of the dungeon for cooking, or even just how good it looked.
That's the stuff that got me through those weaker initial character moments and it dissapoints me when people seemingly only came for half of the premise, like expecting Frieren again or something.
@@sofistar-yt5dh Senshi made 1 food that is very genious to the chapter which is the Soul Egg Benedict in the chapter egg
To make Egg benedict, you need to prepare eggs in 2 different ways, while he's talking about the multiple properties of egg
Implying the 2 soul mixing problem of Falin and Izutsumi
@@bachtrinh8783 I don't know if you're an anime only so I won't tell spoilers of part 2. Part 1 meals mostly have to do with character and relationship development (which also helps demostrate the racism theme in microscale for when the story expands on it later) but they also introduce various relevant concepts later on:
The hotpot brings Senshi to the party and it introduces the idea of thinking about the monster's body deeper (slimes have organs, mushrooms have a right way to cut them, pay atention to a scorpions pincers). It's also the first time Marcille eats monsters
The tart introduces Senshi's belief about not taking more than you need (very important later on) and how you should think how the environment/food chain works (Marcille can't expect for something delicious to just appear, delicious fruits function as bait, humans are also part of the food chain)
The roasted basilisk shows how food can have more effects than just filling you (important with the undine, the dryads and later on) and that you should care about nutrition too (relevant to Izutsumi, to later characters and the plot), it introduces Senshi's way to a longer life (relevant to the themes, to Laios-Shuro conflict and very important later on) and it makes another connection to draw to to eat the dragon
The omelet introduces Marcille's insecurities and its the first bridge between her and Senshi, who also relents for the first time. It shows the first time Laios acting like a "proper" leader and it introduces the concept of magic's relation to the natural world (and how careless it can be when unaware of nature)
The kakiage is Chilchuck and Senshi's bridge, where Chichuck learns to use the traps instead of just evading them (relevant to mimic and frog) and Senshi expresses fondness for the party itself for the first time. It also introduces Senshi's ignorance of half-foots and it shows more clearly the difference between races
This is just the first two episodes, the weaker ones whose introductions to the world coalesce for the first time in Living armor and it concludes something very important that this reviewer seemingly missed: Laios doesn't win because he's stronger or because he loves his sister or because he gets along well with his party, he wins because he's able to observe the natural and understand the armor's needs in relation to its environment, that this "incomprehensible" enemy is also beholded to the same rules: eat or be eaten
@sofistar-yt5dh yeah I definitely didn't catch any symbolism in the dishes in the first couple of episodes (and eventually dropped the series because it wasn't clicking for me). It seems like there's a lot of fans who really go on a deep dive of analyzing the series, and the comment section feels like a lot of people going "I can't believe you didn't analyze the way this character winks at another character in frame 7 of episode 8, contrasting with the way they instead blinked in the previous episode."
Maybe I should give the series another shot but I don't know if the average viewers will have the same sense of the show as the dungeon mesh scholars
@@Alkeeros I didn't either and it can take me a bit to understand a deeper series, so I have nothing against just taking the show at face value. I watched it because I just like cooking, didn't expect any of this, when I say that it took me through those episodes I meant that I like cooking and ecology and can enjoy them by themselves. My criticism is at a reviewer who should be able to at least acknowledge the elements of the premise
I think I could imagine being this grated and annoyed by the characters if I was actually stuck in a dungeon with them. Luckily I’m not, and I can appreciate that them having flaws that relate to the situation creates drama.
I also think we really need to change the way we think about originality. Dungeon Meshi contains a lot of classic fantasy tropes. It leans into some of them, but it also subverts a lot of them. (A great example is Itzusumi: instead of doing typical nya anime catgirl jokes, she’s aloof, stubborn, childish, and reluctant to show vulnerability. Like an actual cat.) I think the premise of combining a cooking show with a dungeon crawl is pretty original, but beyond that, what makes the show feel new and fresh to me is the execution. I’m sure *someone* has thought of all the ideas that went into the show before, artists have lots of ideas after all, but it’s the way those ideas are combined and explored throughout that make the show stand out and feel like something other than a retread. To use your metaphor, Dungeon Meshi feels like a brand new, delicious meal made with familiar ingredients. Not just a really good cheeseburger.
Last point, I swear: you talk about the overarching plot being nothing special, but I’m surprised you don’t talk about the individual episodic plots that are the lifeblood of the show. The process of discovering and understanding the dungeon’s ecology to solve problems is just always so creative and satisfying, and has plenty of little twists and reveals. The living armor was what really sold me on the show: a monster that none of us trope-trained viewers would have questioned, but Laios DOES question it, and that’s what allows him to figure out how it works, defeat it, and turn it into a resource. I remember thinking “if they can keep pulling that trick, I am completely onboard.” And then they did, like almost every episode!
i was looking at the art book and one thing stuck out; the art isnt super gorgeous, the characters arent wearing exciting outfits and they're all somewhat plain looking, but(!) it is great character design. the amount of effort going into the creation of diversity within species while keeping the common traits so strong that they can race bend everyone and perfectly translate the essence of their character while perfectly depicting them within the rules of that race, that's just really baller, man, idk. there's a lot of work going on behind these basic ass main character designs to be able to support a growing cast of wonderfully realized characters in a world thats slowly coming to life
also the amount of profound themes and gags and plot points and characterization and worldbuilding and philosophies that they manage to tie into the concept of "we cooking, in a dungeon" is incredible
people definitely don't appreciate the art of episodic plots and always dismiss more episodic aspects of series as somehow lesser but dungeon meshi I think pretty masterfully crafts episodic plots that contribute really well to the over-arching plot. I do think if you just read a plot synopsis of the entire season on paper the overall plot isn't the most interesting thing in the world but the way it's told through a long series of episodic segments that ARE interesting is really enjoyable. Every week I was excited to see what kind of antics my favorite idiots would get up to and what interesting fantasy ecology would be explored. The episodic nature is also a great way to squeeze in a lot of fun character interactions and is perfect for a highly character driven story, I feel like I understand the dynamic and have more fun memories and moments to point to with the dungeon meshi cast than the main 3 of Jujutsu Kaisen which has more episodes. Hell I feel like the dungen meshi group has a more developed group dynamic than Team 7 from naruto, they constantly reference memories of team 7 in later parts of naruto and naruto shippuden but they really didn't do that much together it feels like, especially compared to what dungeon meshi was able to do in just 2 cours. I think people place way too much emphasis on the major plot points for the overall story that they miss the merits of really well done episodic story telling.
I understand wanting to make the review spoiler light as possible, but still, calling fallin a mcguffin? Saying marcille has little story importance when she is hoping to save her best friend, and all the other stuff? The little focus on fallin is also kinda weird. She doesn't appear much but the other characters talk about her so much, she litterally is the reason the adventure and all these plot beats are connecting the way they are, and she seems to also be her own person with her worldview and isn't tropefied nor "damsel in distress" type. They also know she is dead at this point, their hope (and what laios expects) is that due to dragons' slow metabolism she isn't too digested to make the resurrection easier.
There's also quite a bit other things and themes that you could have explored. How there are many more other players at this than just "elves and the governor", there is a different party altogether whose leader is a foil to laios, there ar ethe parties that the late members of laios' group are now with, there's the town growth and prosperity relying on the dungeon, there are the orcs, the mad mage and whatever his plans are, etc. The plot is really interesting and ofc the 1st season is laying the foundations still, but even on episode 4 they start to comment on it with the orcs etc. And you can tell there will be more going on. There is also the whole theme of eating being a cycle, all organisms need to source food, and not only that meals that bring people together.
I'm not gonna comment on the senshi take because a lot of people already said so. But also Marcille and Izutsumi got a pretty superficial view. Yes they have troubles, not only as character flaws, but in ways that make sense. Marcille is a preppy and proper academic mage who has been adventuring for, in her sense of time, not long at all. And eating monsters is understandably not something to be excited about, only laios and senshi treat it as normal at first. It's not common at all. I can see it could be grating or take too long on her being stuck up on it, but i really didn't mind it. Izutsumi, as you mentioned appeaed very late into the story, so most of her episodes are still in the "getting along with the group" which also makes sense, she's 17 and was so dehumanized her late masters put a "bomb" collar and face cover on her. She already got a bad view on the group because of happened in ep 17, she doesn't know them at all, she's clearly more of an aggressive and stubborn person at first, focused solely on her goals.
Anyways i just think this is a pretty glazed over review that while overall describes parts of dungeon meshi well and what it's about, gives me more the impression that it was forcibly done or that it wasn't of particular interest to write about. Or maybe it was just the wanting to not go over too deep with it bc spoilers and conciseness. This is the first video from this channel i watch and sorry if this was harsh. I wish the best to you
This
if I had a problem with Dungeon Meshi as a whole it would probably be that we really *don't* get much about Falin. She exists to be motivation, and what we know about her is what motivates each relevant character to risk life and limb to get her back, but that's about it. And that's a shame because the tiny glimpses of characterization we see beyond that hint at her being a really fun and interesting character, but we never see *enough* for that potential character to become a real character beyond her purpose as a plot device. She serves her purpose in the story, but she's one of the few characters in Dungeon Meshi who never really goes beyond that.
While I think calling her macguffin is one step too far, she really doesn't get any significant screen time or development relative to her massive motivational and plot importance. Most importantly for being a macguffin, this will not change in season 2. She gets shoved to the side as the background motivation up until the final elements of the climax are in place and then nearly forgotten.
I don't think this is a bad thing at all, we learn about her and her relationships through other characters and we have a sufficient connection to her for us to care. But that's also the issue, she is just sufficient, and I am not sure if the author could have shoved her development into the story somewhere without significantly interrupting other parts of the writing.
Totally disagree about them being unlikeable in the beginning! How else are they supposed to change?!?! Theyre set in their ways and being around each other inspires them and causes them to change! It's also a comedy for a huge percentage of its runtime before becoming more focused on drama! Senshi essentially bonds with the others one episode at a time, and i really liked that compared to then becoming best friends instantly, which is what a lesser story would have done!
@@princessthyemis they are likeable from the start. That's why we get invested in the show.
Yeah it was a weird take.
Agreed. I didn't mind the characters displaying their flaws, because I'm savvy enough to know they'll eventually grow out of that as the story progresses. Them learning and growing as people is _part of the point._
People just have not the patience to sit through character growth naturally nowadays. They have to be reassured multiple times before engaging further that they "will change" or "get better", which I consider cowardly behavior.
@@monkey_blu because often times they don't change or get better. Case in point Rent a Girlfriend.
10:55 She isn't a woman, she is just a child so chill a bit.
She's not even a human child, she's a cat. She's a kitten.
Most anime are afraid of making their characters flawed. Dungeon Meshi is courageous enough to make every character flawed. There is no character who's black or white. Even the monsters are just animals under a magical thrall. I feel like you recognized depth in the conflict between Laios and Shuro, but that same depth exists in all the characters. Also, of course the cat acts like a cat.
Consider: Catgirl is ALSO Autistic, but in the ways a LOT of Allistic people hate.
Being Autistic myself, a lot of the characters in Dungeon Meshi have resonated with me, and Izutsumi’s behavior really does reflect myself, to an extent.
As a younger kid all the way to my teenage years, everyone thought I was "just picky and annoying", when really, I just have sensory issues when it comes to certain foods, and forcing myself to eat those things would more often then not result in extreme distress and sometimes even vomiting.
Of course, everyone just considered me ungrateful and dramatic, but nobody fuckin knew what sensory overload even was, so seeing some teenager absolutely refusing to eat certain things and throwing up when forced was a reason to think of him as "a whiny baby", when really, my brain decided, by itself, with no input from me, that certain textures and appearances in food were Simply Unacceptable.
Happy so say, I’ve come a long way, as I know that something could be wretched to me when served in one way, but perfectly wonderful in a different way, like how sautéed vegetables feel/look/taste a whole different way to blanched, roasted, or god fucking forbid, boiled.
THAT SAID!
I still absolutely HATE certain foods, but I can handle myself significantly better then before, as I have a few things Izutsumi doesn’t, and that’s the knowledge of my own mind, the words to describe WHY I don’t like something, and also that there’s a lot more info regarding neurodivergency and how it interacts with the senses, and therefore, food. Dungeon Food.
the thing about izutsumi is that she's a cat, comma, girl. she's a cat first, a girl second. if you've ever owned a cat you know that it can be impossible to get them to eat sometimes, even when they're clearly hungry. i personally have a cat who is INCREDIBLY picky. he will love something and eat it for a month, then one day he will decide he never wants to see that food again. he doesn't like any treats. he usually needs to have his food warmed up. if there's even a speck of old food stuck to his dish, he might reject it outright. i think anyone who knows cats recognizes all the extremely cat-like behaviors izutsumi displays. she has the exact personality of a feral cat you caught in your backyard who got into some kind of trouble and decided it was time for the cat distribution system to turn toward you.
she's also another layer of autism/neurodivergent representation alongside every other character, portraying a lot of the more negative stereotypes of neurodivergence. she's rude, she's picky, she's abrasive, she doesn't really like physical touch, she's highly attuned and sensitive to sudden changes (all traits that cats have as well). i see izutsumi as a very good representation for the more negative traits associated with neurodivergence, and she's proof that not only are those people worthy of love and patience, they are also capable of being loving and being patient if given the tools and space to do so.
I really disagree with your take on Izutsumi - picky eaters usually can’t control it, even when they know logically they have to eat whatever is in front of them to survive. Personally I immediately clocked her as having Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder which is commonly comorbid with autism. It also could be a consequence of the fact that her body has been irreparably changed and her senses are probably totally different. I find it sad when people treat picky eating as some kind of childish, bratty trait when it’s so often a symptom of mental health issues. But all in all I’m glad you covered this show, and I’m super relieved to see that everyone picks up what the show is putting down and chuds haven’t come out of the woodwork to go “Laios isn’t autistic stop projecting.” Love your stuff man :)
Edit: Upon further inspection I think I was being too generous. I have to agree with a lot of the commenters down here that even though you usually make great videos, this one is not one of them. It doesn’t seem like you did much more than skim the episodes and you skip over just about everything that makes DunMeshi special. Seems like maybe this video was rushed? Idk. Still a big fan tho
I respect the 8/10 if dungeon meshi is not to your taste, not everyone likes this type of series and it is understandable, but the way he spoke about Marcellie seems quite aggressive to me, especially with she been escribed as unpleasant in the first chapters, when in reality she is proven right, Laios is excited but can't go eat monsters without knowing anything about anatomy, so senshi appears.
I actually don't feel that any of the characters are unpleasant in the first few chapters as he say. The one who was the hardest to go through was Izumi because we already had an established cast and she has that rebellious teenager personality, but she had her moments in the chapters she was in.
In general I feel that many good things were overlooked to try to balance the moments of good points and bad points, which leaves a bad impression since it magnifies what is defective and minimizes what is impeccable.
Maybe if the video was longer and the overlooked points were explained it wouldn't feel so bad, but with the compression this review leaves a bad taste in the mouth, or at least that's what I think
How do you interpret an 8/10 to mean a show isn’t to someone’s taste? That’s far above the rating you’d give an average show
@@Professor_Brie Doing it
It's kinda funny you talk about the picky eaters because ryoko kui (author) said she would not eat any of the food in the story.
I've always considered you the good anituber, but I guess they can't all be bangers. Taking a break from this video because the god awful misreadings of Senshi and refusal to discuss the interesting aspects of the story for spoiler reasons and then denigrating what's left have really irked me. I'll come back to this but... c'mon man.
7:25 that whole scene walked up to me and curvestompted me in the chest, it spoke so directly to a massive anxiety of mine as an autistic person.
As a kid I had a small group of friend who suddenly avoided me seemingly out of nowhere for a time and the reason behind it turned out to be that I kept drawing pictures depicting the play-pretend we'd been doing during recess (rly just larping before we knew what larping was, and I'd draw us as I imagined we looked in those fantasies, not just us as kids running around in the woods lol) and sharing my art with them until they no longer had any room in their desk cupboards.
And instead of just telling me to keep the art for myself, put it in a binder or something, they decided to just stop playing with me so I wouldn't have anything to draw about I guess???
and a bunch of similar things like that kept happening throughout my time in elementary and middle school and now I'm forever anxious that ppl are simply putting up with me whenever I try to make new friends
(now tbf I was also a kid who got into alot of fights so I can see ppl being afraid of making me angry. I only ever picked fight with people who were being dickish to me or my friends, but of course kids in general aren't great at handling confrontation or understanding the difference between going "hey bud could you plz do that less it's becoming a bit too much and it's making me feel like this" and going "go away nobody likes you idiot")
I think the writers must have played a lot of real TTRPGs. The party dynamics earlier where this video says they are 'bad' hit perfectly for me, as I recognized a bunch of dumb players figuring out their characters and dynamic as they settle into a new campaign
Yes Ryoko Kui the author played a lot of oldschool crpgs (or watched her dad play them when she was a kid). She has an entire artwork of profile sketches of bg1 characters, and she played bg3 while finishing the manga lol. She is especially in love with elves and the different takes on them
A lot creators do apearently, but it really has a lot of a campain thats really fun and creative but hits
Ryoko Kui is a big Pathfinder fan so this is almost certainly true
Bro, what is so bad about bad and stuck up people who grow better over time???
2:50 did you just say the plot is weak... did you just say the plot is weak COMPARED TO JOBLESS REINCARNATION!?
lmao, right
i watched jobless reincarnation for the plot (sexxual harrassment)
yeah especially since he separates plot from character which the only way to do that is if your conception of plot is just the literal on paper sequence of events. I actually liked the first season of mushoku tensei but both seasons are highly character driven with fairly run of the mill plots, the best parts of mushoku tensei are the character moments not the plot, which is why in light of season 2 my opinion on the show has soured pretty considerably since the show doesn't seem as interested in actually making Rudy much of a better person, based on how season 2 just glosses over Rudy's worst character traits it seems according to the show his only real flaw was being a shut in, being a lecherous creep is apparently fine and dandy, just don't be a shut in while doing it.
I get the vibe from this review that you only made it because your patreon wanted you to.
11:26 I mean, yeah
It just occurred to me why ExplanationPoint tends to hate so many shows:
He's extraordinarily judgemental. Like, bro, Senshi literally does not regard the trap as a threat because they can heal basically anything with a mere 8 hour rest and he literally lives in that dungeon Chilchuck is so scared of. I would be totally unconcerned with the trap too if that was my home, but his unconcerned manner with regards to the trap is what his actual problem is- the same problem reemerges later on with the aquatic horse.
Senshi didn't learn from his mistake during the trap scene, it's just that when his same problem comes back it's portrayed in a sombre tone which is probably why ExplanationPoint missed this... Because he's too judgemental and thought Senshi was some kind of serial killer instead of the overly relaxed teddy bear that he actually is.
That trap scene was meant to highlight both their problems, not just Senshi though. Chilchuck is way too serious to the point of being a burden, throughout the show his professional mannerisms break down and he starts opening up. That trap scene highlights how seriously he takes the job, showing that he has legitimate concerns, but that he's not the only one who understands danger. Senshi lives in danger and didn't get hurt by the trap; he has made such danger his home even if he doesn't understand traps. This moment is meant to show they can learn a lot from each other.
There was more anime made this year than you could watch in your whole lifetime. Who has time to waste on mediocre shows?
14:15 Where are you getting that he hates this show? At around the time stamp in my comment, he literally says that it does a great job with character writing, which he says is one of the most important things about a show to him, and that it doesn’t disappoint on many other fronts either. Just because he missed the point on some scenes or parts doesn’t mean he’s being ridiculously judgemental or hateful. Perhaps he genuinely interpreted things differently and missed the intent of certain scenes?
And he acknowledges errors in his judgement of certain characters, in a comment explaining the picky eating of the cat girl as something deserving of more empathy he replied requesting people to boost that comment with likes because he can’t pin it himself due to sponsorship obligations. Perhaps you yourself are maybe too harshly judging a person who is also flawed, just like the well written, flawed characters from the shows you love
@@Professor_Brie You misunderstand, I wasn't saying he disliked this show, but that he dislikes many shows as a generality because most shows he dislikes rely on characters behaving less than perfectly. Such as Mushoku Tensei whereby he completely ignores the fact that it genuinely has some of the best character and plot writing in modern anime such that it deserves the rank of top 10...
All because he's ridiculously judgemental of Rudy and now Senshi. I've never encountered someone with such a massive stick up their ass that they'd actually portray Senshi as being a serial killer. Rudy I understand, but Senshi? Wtf?
@@TheEvilCheesecake Mediocre? He harshly judges the best shows all because of disliking the characters. Mushoku Tensei and now Dungeon Meshi.
There's nothing mediocre about either, they have exceptional writing. It takes a lot of skill to weave so many narratives together that actually makes sense as what Dungeon Meshi pulls off.
If he just didn't want to watch them because it's not his cup of tea, sure, w/e, but dishonesty about Senshi makes no sense.
@@Ryanowning nothing makes me less interested in watching a show than when people like you get super defensive upon hearing someone say they aren't going to watch your show.
Izutsumi being picky makes sense when you realize that shes a cat, an obligatory carnivore.
While her human part can probably digest vegetables and grains, her cat part probably doesnt like it very much
EP, I say this with all the love and respect of a long-time watcher: I don't think you understood this show or the characters very well.
In fairness to Senshi at the start of the series, Chilchuck is kind of a dick early in the series himself, with an infuriatingly “I’m the only smart one here keeping everyone safe” attitude towards the dungeon dive, and despite *being right* about the dungeon being dangerous, his hyper-caution is also a character flaw, because it wastes time and resources in a dungeon dive that’s on a timer and a budget. By that point, he’s been talking about how dangerous this place is over and over with the party being totally fine every time, to a point it really does feel like he just doesn’t believe in his party at all, and so when he starts talking about death traps, Senshi, who hasn’t worked with him as much as the others, understandably doesn’t believe him and waltzes on through anyway, and gets mad at Chilchuck for not having any faith in his competency. TL:DR; they both suck that early in the series, and it makes both of their worst moments a bit more sensical at that point at least.
In Spain this anime was paired with a great dub, starting from the fact that the Spanish title (Tragones y Mazmorras - Dungeons and Gluttons) is a perfect pun on the Spanish name for Dungeons and Dragons (Dragones y Mazmorras). In the manga, they even had Senshi referencing the host of a Spanish TV show about cooking delicious food (Karlos Arguiñano, he's basically like Senshi but Human).
I think your initial repulsion to the main cast is a pretty exclusively you problem. But glad you stuck with it I guess.
i think you're a bit too harsh about the characters tbh. they do grow a lot but that doesn't mean they start at rock bottom
normally your opinions are pretty good but this one was a swing and a miss in my opinion
I would find Marcille far more grating if it weren't largely a reaction to Laois being way too gungho about shit. Like say what you want about the really nice looking food, Laois does make it weird. Anyway, anything else with good women?
If you haven't already, Frieren and Apothecary Diaries are great picks.
Also obviously the preppy and proper elf girl is gonna have a hard time at first about eating monsters , which isn't a very common thing at all in that world aside for people "on the fringes" of society or different lands. And considering the age of marcille, even for a young elf her time adventuring is a blink in her life, so it's not like she's used to the rough lifestyle
She works to show how weird and unusual it is there, and that she really is driven how she still is unwavered to go on.
That the highstrung elve puts up with that and goes along is already good.
@@BubblingBrookevouch, Frieren and AD are fantastic
@@marocat4749 yeah. I found her being driven and still willing to help despite everything far more intriguing than if shed kust gone along with it. Her weird friend is very weird about eating monsters and she cares about him, respects him but it doesnt change that hes being a total weird
I haven't watched anime in a really long time and only picked this series up when a friend recommended it to me. I got to say, this series is incredibly refreshing and has none of the issues I've had with so much modern anime over the years. So from my perspective I can't help but feel like your issues with the series sound like a bunch or nitpicking. Not to say that you're wrong or your opinions are wrong just that I really don't see where you're coming from. Wanting to drop the show after episode 2 is just wild to me because I liked it so much I've been rewatching it in Spanish as a way to practice the language.
Saw this comment somewhere else:
Izutsumi is a cat, a girl and a teenager. She is the brattiest thing alive.
It’s funny because Izutsumi is not a “woman” she is a teen (17 exactly) 😂
aww... I wish my favorite cooking show (Golden Kamuy) had been included in the "and even more cooking shows" collage... sad.
This show really said “look at all these autistic mfs” and I love it for that
Wait. This isn't a Lily Orchard video...
I wasn't really bothered by the annoying character beats in the beginning but i can see why one would be, and maybe if they continued to such an extent for the whole show it would have thrown me off. Thankfully it didnt because i loved this show, it was super fun to watch. I also love this channel and your reviews are also super fun to watch! This was very fair and very funny.
I also disagree with your takes on the characters flaws being a detriment to the show, but a lot of other comments have phrased it better than I could. I just think you’re too pragmatic about how everyone should act and react to situations, when their “incorrect” reactions are what creates the shows conflict and interest
sorry Explanation point I'm going have to unsub for that awful take about itzusumi ;)
I kind of get why you did, but I never particularly found any of the characters too annoying to watch.
Marcille's hangups about eating monsters, while impractical given the circumstances and a bit repetitive at times, are an understandable thing for her to care about in the same way that some people may be extremely averse to eating a dog or a horse even though there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
Senshi is similar, as he is stubborn when it comes to learning new ways of doing things when his preferred ways seem fine to him, which leads to him doing things like refusing to get involved with magic and not bothering to worry about traps.
Izutsumi is probably the most aggravating of any of the characters, but her annoying traits are immediately presented as things that the group will try and help her improve on and that they quickly succeed in accomplishing in some way. Stuff that she doesn't change like being a picky eater are accommodated for, while still encouraging her to expand her horizons.
"The story isn't as good as these other shows"
[Shows three shows with worse stories than dungeon meshi] lmao
How so?
Literally every time an anime bro insists that Mushoku Tensei is fantastic when the plot is ass and the main character is even worse lmao
@@jvever4904it's crazy too because explanation point is one of the few anime youtubers that has actually actively criticized MT, so i'm really disappointed at the take lol
bro did not cook
tldr: If you're not interested in reviewing something, just don't make the review.
...
Did I even watch the same anime as the one described in this video? Disappointed.
It's hard to watch someone slander half the cast of a show I really liked just because the characters act like the flawed but growing people they are and not the overly pragmatic and tropey characters they expected to see.
Some points:
Falin is more than the MacGuffin this video flattens her into, she was the emotional heart of their party and sorely missed now that she is gone. She's characterized by the way she touched other people's lives.
Marcille isn't some prissy Girl stereotype, she's a fairly sheltered academic with moral lines she doesn't want to draw and is very vocal about it. As she has every right to be -- most of the other characters in the show are also demonstrably averse to Senshi's diverse cooking, they just don't talk about it. Even in the first couple of episodes it is easy to read that she is supposed to be a fixture of 'common sense' in this party that is quickly swerving into a relatively insane mentality. And Chilchuck has a lot of the same moments, and the same moral lines, but that seems to be ignored in favor of this shallow reading of Marcille.
Izutsumi is an amazing deconstruction of an anime cat girl! She's characterized excellently as a hybrid of animal and human traits, rather than a waifu-coded tsundere/ditz with cat ears and maybe tail. The traits that made her an outcast in Shuro's party and now in the main cast's party are her cat traits, like her picky eating and uncooperativeness. That she has trouble fitting into the party at first is not a problem, it should be an expected part of the process.
And Senshi is a bumbling old man who appeared from nowhere and initially has very little understanding of aboveground common sense or the physical differences of the other fantasy races, not this stubborn fool who refuses to listen to or regard others at all. It's hard to believe Senshi is acting with active malice in the instance cited for many reasons that seemed pretty obvious given the subtext of the scene. He's ignoring Chilchuck because he only sees a child acting like an uppity know-it-all alongside two other inexperienced youngsters, and plus he's pretty physically resistant to these traps that he thus doesn't consider super dangerous to himself. He is shown to quickly learn that he's not entirely right about these assumptions, and he acknowledges Chilchuck's expertise, accepting that the other party members are probably more knowledgeable that himself in their respective fields. Even before you find out about his tragic backstory it is easy to assume these are simple cultural differences.
Not to mention how you skim over some of the main draws of the story on your way to the criticisms, like the excellent comedy writing and the food. I'd watch an anime that was just Senshi cooking, because the half of this show that is about how food brings us all together and the importance of a lovingly cooked meal is a massive part of the appeal. That you ignore it to make Dungeon Meshi all about the characters you didn't like is a huge misrepresentation of this show.
Your analysis of Dungeon Meshi reads like you used the Sparknotes or the wiki instead of the actual book for this book report that your Patreon assigned you, and thus your criticisms of the show miss the actual text by a wide margin. Your eagerness to criticise a show you thus did not understand blinded you to the show itself. If you're not actually very interested in a show, not many people would be upset you didn't cover it. I would have loved to watch another analysis from you of a piece of media you actually engaged with.
I'm not very sorry to add to this dogpile of a comment section.
only anime I've chosen the dub over the sub, not bc the dub was better by any means but bc this anime can be quite talky and the first episode kinda exhausted me with how much of the subtitles was either worldbuilding or fantasy cooking recipes, it was just much easier to consume when I only needed my ears to comprehend it and could focus my eyes completely on the animation.
(... also I recently got into Smosh and I learned that Damien Haas voices Laios and that motivated me to binge the entire season on netflix in the span of 2-3 days (;¬⸝⸝⸝¬))
Damien for laios is litterally perfect casting
So, this is a bit spoilery, but I'll do my best to keep it as safe as possible.
Dungeon Meshi is one of my favorite mangas ( as the anime adaptation hasn't reached that point yet ) that deals with themes of desires and wishes, wishes going completely wrong and especially living with consequences of your deepest wishes coming to life completely wrong ( without abandoning your humanity, time-travelling to fix it, friend magic fixing it all etc). So, what makes it stand out for me is not only using food as "translation medium" ( that works very well, because literally anyone gets need/indulgence duality of food) but also the grounded outlook it has. DM specifically points out that ( even if it doesn't come naturally when you hit rock bottom ) cultivating new healthy wishes and desires is a personal responsibility that you need to take on in order to live a happier healthier life, just like you need sleep, nutritious meals and basic physical activity. Which is, in my personal opinion, extremely based.
I don't think you gave this show enough credit in the early episodes. The characters are definitely flawed early on, but that's the point; if they didn't have flaws, there would be no clear way to grow. Senshi isn't murderous or being spiteful, he's just been living in there for years and knows the traps are safer than everyone thinks (see the putting his finger inside of burning oil part). He also thinks Chilchuck is a malnourished teen early on, so there's a hint of "I'm older and know better" mentality at play too.
Marcille's hesitation can be grating, but that's because it's the foil to the enthusiasm that Laios has. It's funnier if she's borderline hostile; if she was only neutral on the subject or just lightly concerned like Chilchuck, the team dynamic would be less interesting. Slowly breaking her walls down is also crucial as it contrasts the lines she's willing to cross later on in the season and other things she does further down the line.
As for Izutsumi, she's just a different flavor of autistic than Laios; several people that like Laios dislike Izutsumi and vice versa. Character background also has a factor in this as well.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention the voice acting here and the changes between sub and dub. There's a really fascinating thing that occurred where Japanese watchers saw the dub and were really impressed with how the cast did.
I have the anxiety/pragmatism of Chilchuck, the social awkwardness of Laios, and the lesbianism/academic curiosity of Marcille.
Regarding the 'weak plot' It's such a shame that I know that there are people that would be put off by the monster-of-the-week format and/or think "oh it's a cozy show about fantasy and cooking, neat". Which is NOT ENTIRELY TRUE. Manga readers know the 'real' plot doesn't kick off until Season 2, but we can't elaborate on it much without spoiling.
the sheer fear that EP would introduce problematic elements in the two cosy shows I like towards the end after 'made in abyss - child horror' and 'korean hate Kings' was immeasurable for a moment.
Dungeon messy is great its a dark fantasy with great world building that I dont have to feel weird about recemending because of who the author might be. (I really like made in abyss I just think the persons house should be invesitcated on a regular basis)
Yeah, while I usually agree with EP's opinions, this video was a hard one. To say that Dungeon Meshi doesn't try to do anything new is weird to me, it's really hard to find stories that make their world such a central part of the story, and yes this world is basically western fantasy, but I have never seen someone try to make monsters be natural and ecologically correct going into such details, just that alone makes Dungeon Meshi stand out from the rest of basic fantasy we always see.
It's also beyond me how you could drop this after only 2 episodes, I guess everyone has their own tastes
god damn that certainly was a video, and comparing Senshi to pedo rat was certainly an editing decision.
Maybe my viewpoint is different because I read the manga first. But his initial impressions of the characters is so off imo. Marcille’s hang-ups on eating monsters is understandable, and Chilchuck puts up almost as much of a fuss as she does initially. How boring would it be story-wise if she just went along with it, no complaints? She provides a counterbalance to Laios’s excitement to eat monsters. She’s basically a foil to Laios. And Senshi is not petty at all, nor is he ‘homicidal’. He was just completely ignorant and clumsy regarding the traps.
EDIT: also, I’m pretty sure Izutsumi is a kid still (17?). So, while she is a little harder to like at first, her actions are understandable given her age and circumstances.
Not to be that guy, but I haven't really liked your takes in some of these new videos. How do I put it? It's like you're being hyper critical without getting some of the bigger picture or just choosing not to take a chill pill. Your perspective isn't wrong. It just feels like it's missing something.
I can agree that the beginning of Dungeon Meshi isn't the strongest, but it's not that bad. Honestly, it might be because I was such a hardcore DnD fan that I was able to pick up on some not so obvious subversions. It's like a "You know you know" thing. Like Izutsumi is a play on the problematic DnD player that only cares about themselves and doesn't get along with anyone else. I think anyone who's ever had a problematic player like that can appreciate Izutsumi's arc.
Anime of the year (sorry frieren bros and mushoku tensei ever winning)
You're crazy, Frieren is better.
@@GeraltofRivia22 for the first half.... And then it just never ends
@@GeraltofRivia22 Both are so good, I think it really comes down to personal opinions...
Dungeon meshi clears.
Dungeon Meshi and Frieren are great for different reasons, I think it’s care to compare them. They’re both great.
…and they’re both way better than MT lol
@@GeraltofRivia22 a direct comparison isn’t fair since Frieren doesn’t have an ending (and might not get one), whereas Dunmeshi does.
Gonna be honest, I did not realize that your previous two videos were not just another review stream and it took me until me sitting down for what I thought was a review stream VOD to realize that
the fact you sung the opening for this vid was fun, loved that
Marcile doesn't want to eat mosters not because she thinks they aren't tasty (at least not only) but because for her it's culturally wrong. How many times would you have to kill and prepare a dog for it to stop feeling wrong?
That is not an accurate comparison at all, it's closer to eating rats or vultures as the reason people find eating monsters weird is because they're assumed to be unclean and possibly carrying diseases.
@@rogueobscura Honestly I don't get why so many people complain about her not wanting to eat monsters. How many people want to eat a pigeon or squirrel?
I find the characters being annoying in the first episodes as a very good narrative device since it resembles getting to know people in real life. at first you only get to see the superficial character of someone but the more you spend time with them you get to know their complexity and why they are like that. I admit that after watching the first episode I also was like "why Is this the thing everyone is hyped about?" but later realized that that's the theme of the story. Stuff is more complex than what it appears at first. People, politics, the environment, food. Even the opening explores this concept. The characters stand taller than their circumstances with their eyes closed until Falin makes them open them to become part of something bigger, a community, and going out into the world by going deep into a dungeon and enjoying the basics of life, food and friends. It's actually very beautiful and kinda deep.
hm... overall this video is more of a miss for me, which seems to be the common sentimente here.
I can kinda see your issues but at the same time I think some stuff is way overblown while underselling it's strengths.
Maybe its an unintentional side effect of comedic exageration, but I still feel a genuine annoyance in your voice, so it's probably some personal preference/tolerance kind of stick.
I did think that some of it was really mean spirited in some way, (especially towards marcille and izutsumi, especially reducing marcille so often to just "girl" felt really patronising, even if you probably didn't mean to) so I hope this won't become a common thing on this channel.
Personally, I did enjoy the clash of characters, it's pretty fun and it's not like things are done in a particular malicious way I find distasteful.
I think the clash of character is especially important, since the series as a whole is about understanding eachother and coming together to eat.
With eating being this metaphor of wanting to live, asserting your place in the world.
It's a really powerful message which is overall supported brilliantly by its premise and just varied character designs.
Which leads me to my next point of the lacking acknowledgement of the said designs.
It's just so refreshing to see women have such variety of body types. And the subtle racial designs are just really excellent.
And I really can't understate how important the female character design in the series is to me. Women are usually not allowed ot have any varied bodytypes that aren't in some way slim, but the series allows for many kind of women to still exists with no judgement or weird digs about losing weight or adjusting your diet.
So I really disagree Dunmeshi being a good cheeseburger. I think it undersells what makes it special a lot
Honeslty, if anything i'd call Mushoki Tensei more a good cheeseburger because it still comes with all the weird lusting after women stick with minimum consequences that's all so common in anime.
Dungeon Meshi is the epitome of execution being more important than originality. Even when “the stuff” happens in the later half it is all fantasy tropes you’ve seen before. Dungeon Meshi simply performs them all masterfully. It is not ground breaking, or genre busting, or deconstructive/reconstructive, it is simply great.
Also Liaos is the single best autistic character in fiction fight me
I thought marcele was hilarious in the first season. She honestly got less interesting for me after the big twist. But for me she represents the standard view of monsters by the general dungeon delving population. Most adventurers bring their own food and view the monsters as vermin, unfit for consumption. Marcel’s understanding of mandrakes is book knowledge and not practical knowledge, like most other dungeon divers. Watching her get nailed by a mandrake was hilarious. She acted as a foil to Laios and the others pretty well.
What I love about Dungeon Meshi is that it has methodical pacing which is a rarity nowadays, especially with shonen stories.
I like that this series is willing to take its time and not reveal its cards too early, kind of like how Hunter X Hunter can blindsight you into thinking it's just a cute adventure to track someone (the MC's dad).
It scratches that Hunter x Hunter itch for me.
Anime and a lot of fiction work tend to just do dwarves as smiths, they make weapons and make it for the super strong protagonist. I like Senshi because he is everything else that I loved the idea of reading up on what Dwarves are in D&D stuff.
He is stubborn, inelegant, proud, very proud in his one specific craft, and with a love for his people, will share that same love with those he considers close, even with that difficult of kind. I had a mini fixation a few years back on dwarves for D&D, and my favourite bit on them was the idea that dwarves all find value in being good very good at a specific skill, which against the cliche is not always smithy or stonework. That they will spend years focusing on very small parts of the process. That the majority they sell to non-dwarf strangers are what they consider rejects they could not possibly sell to another dwarf, risking family embarrassment, or their friends.
Senshi feels like exactly that for cooking.
10:32 NOOOO CAT GIRL IS BEST CAT!! You cant say that 😢
bestie you're great but saying the plot of dungeon meshi is weak makes me spill out my meshi. constructive criticism: this video has good parts but is full of bad unsatisfying takes you're not qualified to give as a clear anime-only and some that are "???!" even as an anime only. overall definite L 😔
this show reminds me of when i ordered a chicken sandwich from a manor museums restaurant expecting a basic ass chicken sandwich for my tired little autistic head, only to be met with a giant plate of what can best be described as a deconstructed chicken sandwich. i didn't know what to think about this at first, its not at all what i had expected, but all the ingredients were like, lightly seasoned chicken breast and tomato, lettuce, carrot etc and it was arranged on the plate in a very similar way to how i deconstruct giant burgers so it wasn't so bad at all. anyway, those farm fresh carrots blew my mind, and you could taste the happiness of their heritage breed chickens. everything they've eaten from around the kitchen gardens and the grassy fields, all their running around, their natural slow growth, it is these unseen, simple and honest factors that can turn something as simple as a chicken sandwich into a profoundly delicious experience
Fun fact! Marcille's visceral reaction to monster food wasn't actually #JustGirlyThings, she is literally Italian.
Dungeon Meshi is a series that starts at "quite good" and just keeps getting better throughout the entirety of its story, and it was great to hear your thoughts on it. VERY excited for the Apothecary Diaries video.
Even if DiD may not do certain things as well as some of the other shows you compared it to, we can at least appreciate that it can be recommended without any "you just have to ignore the part where [wildly inappropriate or disturbing thing]".
I recently learned that the mangaka is apparently a picky eater who would not eat any of the monster dishes herself.
She has amazing skill. I know I couldn't draw food looking delicious if I thought the food was gross.
Can’t wait for everyone to see the second season and have it completely eclipse the first
Best anime-related CZcamsr and quite a peculiar critic is releasing another video, god bless.
Somehow, despite watching Explanation Point for years, I never expect the OP cover. It hits me from out of left field every time, and I'm here for it.
I’d unironically pay real money for a album of Explanation Point anime OP covers.
Thanks for adding those recommendations at the end depending on what your favorite part is, great touch!
One thing that I love about this anime is that when you fighting some monsters, You’re not gonna brute force yourself like most fantasy anime tend to do with ability spamming. Instead, What they require is knowledge, observing, planning and execution. No one is strongest or weakest, Everyone has their role. They don’t push mc alone to let him overshadowed other character. Everyone interaction in party also very well done and feel so natural, No ecchi or anything.
I hope there are many anime like this in future
Hope your mental health is good. Looks like you are getting hit hard with the hot/cold take comments. This is not going to be another disparging hot comment I promise.
Watched your video 3+ times wondering about how the elements and layout would encourage or discourage certain responses from viewers.
I think my comment will genuinely help you understand why you got this response to the review without mentioning many elements that are exclusive to Dungeon Meshi itself.
It can be difficult to offer criticism of a series with extreme popularity or extremely high acclaim, many don't like hearing negatives of things they enjoy. I respect not taking the easy road and joining the wall of praise freely.
I don't think everyone needs to love every series, I believe you already have videos to that effect. It's an unfortunate part of reviewing media that you have to analyze something you didn't resonate with for a review people want.
I completely agree with your reasons for dropping your first try, Marcielle's reactions become stale or repetitive at the start, along with other repetitive elements of the beginning that occur while world building elements are introduced. They really didnt hook me either, but I had the benefit of reading the manga with breaks of waiting for chapters pacing them out. It hurts the pacing in anime format.
From your reviews I usually expect a well nuanced and considered take, with a side of devils advocacy for the sake of trying to enjoy or appreciate the story, despite it having a less than perfect element. I didn't really get that impression this time. Some sections of the review seemed to sacrifice nuance for defending your very valid reasons for dropping. You absolutely weren't wrong to drop the show. But this section of the review is where I think you made a mistep. The combination of spending that much video time defending why the show didn't mesh with you and not fully analyzing the related nuances which may be present in the work. I don't think many people, even ones which agree, really relate directly to the defense itself.
I think you would have had more success trying to use either devils advocate or iron manning to explain the nuances and why they may land flat without some establishing components or broader context in the story. Both newcomers and prexisting fans of the series would likely appreciate the review from a more approachable and relatable perspective and be open to the valid criticisms.
Though you may have already arrived at a similar thought, I hope that was actually helpful in some way.
Mainly commenting just to give your video a boost because I love your work, but I'm really excited to see Apothecary Diaries is up next. I actually gave it a watch initially because you'd included it in a past poll and I ended up absolutely loving it.
It almost feels like we're in a bit of a traditional fantasy renaissance with anime right now. Delicious in Dungeon, Frieren, Witch Hat Atelier next year - I'm so sick of Isekai, and I'm so glad that we've been getting so many quality traditional fantasy shows lately. Hopefully the trend continues.