Baldur's Gate 3 Review: best RPG ever made? utterly overrated? or somewhere in between?
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2023
- Welcome to our Baldur's Gate 3 Review. BG3 by Larian Studios has taken the videogame world by storm and the CRPG niche by maelstrom. It's been labeled the best game ever made... by some... and also unbearably woke garbage by others. But that's what happens when a cult classic IP takes a step into the mainstream triple A world?
Character Creation and Progression - 3:47
Gameplay - 22:01
Story & Lore - 48:52
Companions Lorewise - 1:28:50
Companions Gameplaywise - 1:40:12
Secondary Mechanics & UX - 1:42:57
Sound Effects & Mix - 1:50:25
Voice Acting - 1:54:28
Music - 2:01:00
Graphics - 2:05:24
Performance & Stability - 2:10:36
Other Considerations & Final Thoughts - 2:12:11
Baldur's Gate is arguably the most important IP within the Dungeons and Dragons ballpark. The creators of Divinity Original Sin 2 have taken upon themselves the task to bring a new entry to the series.
New gamers, non-crpg casuals and okayers are loving this "new 5th edition D&D Baldur's Gate" game. But you... you who played Icewind Dale 2, Planescape: Torment and of course, Baldur's Gate and BG2... you reveled in all those infinity engine based games by Black Isle Studios and pre EA Bioware, you who have known D&D from when they were owned by TSR (before they were acquired by Wizards of the Coast)... are YOU going to like this one? Let's find out, shall we?Note: This is a computer RPG review, it's not meant to comment on the D&D ruleset or on how well the game implemented it in its mechanics.
This review is for a non RPG specialized gamer who's maybe hyped about Baldur's Gate III because of the trailers and footage of BG3 he or she has seen and who has maybe played Larian Studio's Divinity Original Sin II.Hopefully our review will help you decide. We still encourage to watch videos on Baldur's Gate 3 gameplay.
This review is based on a criteria that assigns weights to aspects of the game that are particularly important for me. It is not meant to be the ultimate truth about the game. Classic Role Playing Games are my favorite video game genre for a reason and there are a few things I expect from them...
You can check our system of categories in one of our early videos. • And this is how we rev... - Hry
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUBmYqs1jZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
I cannot get over the fact that they've overwritten Sarevok´s and Viconia´s redemption arcs.
This. And I mean... okay, sure, let's assume that we stick with WotC's choice to make the novel adaptation Playchar the Canon Bhaalspawn(tm), which would basically mean that Viconia's redemption arc has never happened.... *But the novels redeem Sarevok, so even that doesn't hold the hell up*. Also... Emperor's true identity. Really, Larian? Really? Couldn't you have taken a more reasonably low-hanging fruit instead?
@@mazerumaze So BG3 got the Disney Star Wars treatment?
100 years have passed. Bhaals blood eventually reasserted itself, clearly. Viconia? She simply went back to serving her evil goddess. Even she expressed anger at Shar demanding she leave her previous enclave, form the new one in Baldurs Gate and go through with the kidnapping and torture plot of Shart and her parents. She says this herself in her dialogue when you confront her with Shart and ask her about why she did what she did.
@@chipsalomwhen you resurrect Sarevok in the Throne of Bhaal he literally says "I'm not a Bhaalspawn anymore", so what is the Bhaal blood you are talking about?
Wizards of the Coast is known to actively despise and ruin the Bhaalspawn Saga with the Abdel Adrian novels. Before BG3 came out, they assassinated Viconia and Sarevok with the Supplement: Minsc and Boo's Guide to Villainy.
The Underdark and Mountain Pass are both act 1, not act 2.
Also, with the level cap, reaching it early in act 3 allows you to play longer with your 'full build', barring specific gear. Is that really worse than only reaching it right at the end of the game?
12 is too low. By the time you get to the third act, you'll still want to continue growing your character but you cant
I would have preferred a higher level cap. Bioware managed to institute higher spells into BG2, so I believe it can be done. That said, this game is long enough as is, so making it longer isn't my cup of tea. And if it's the same length, going 1-20 in that length of time seems too fast. So perhaps level 14 would have been a better stopping point. But what will most likely happen is they adjust XP gains like they did with DOS2 definitive edition to make leveling slower. Although I don't actually want slower leveling in Act 1 and 2, that is just right imho. Act 3 however, gives away massive XP too easily.
I think a good Compromise would have been to keep EXP and Levels of Mobs to what they are in the Table Top. This would have made the latter parts of the Game require a lot more encounters in order to hit the Cap. I know this whole Level Scaling has pretty much become the Standard, but in Games like D&D they dont work just for this reason.
I would be happy with level 12 being a soft cap. Player can get still get a little hp and maybe plus 1 to attack roll for every level after and maybe unlock one more feat for level 15. Larians reason for not wanting to level higher is to keep 7th level spells out is a bit weak imo. You don't have to follow dnd rules to the dot. Don't want 7th level spells but want to keep leveling? Larian you're the developer here and can make that balance call.
Holy moly! I had no idea we capped out at level 12 until just now! That's idiotic!
I'll be putting tons of mods onto my copy. I'm done playing by Larian's stupid, boring rules.
Most problems in this game. Level cap 12, really, remove wish and some other spells, and things are simple enough. Really, really bad choice. Broken quests in 3rd act. I think some quests should end in same act, less confusing and not so much bugs. Also main plot is boring and end is bad. Uh, epic character stories who are in 1st level. I dislike that kinda thing. Also in cut scenes, Gale uses magic, that he hasn't in game. If there was reason, it was bad one. Man characters felt really gay. So not my type. But this problem started when games let every race and every sex have relationships. Last game I remember with limitations was dragon age origins. Characters are better written when they don't like everyone. And more reasons to play game. Also ending was so limiting and kinda sucks. However, level limit is worst one.
My biggest beef with BG3 is you can just smash open locked chests and the items inside are undamaged. What's the point of lockpicking if you can just smash them? They should have made it so that if you smash open chests, there is a high chance of the items inside being damaged.
My biggest beef was at Zeppelin’s at Hangar 38 in Florida. I almost couldn't eat it... almost.
I’m pretty sure it’s made like that so barbarian classes or the like dont NEED to have a rogue w them or else they miss out on loot. Magic users also have the unlock chest spell
Try it with heavy sturdy chests
Also, items with enchanted qualities can only be destroyed via stripping the enchants, in all but very few cases. Potion bottles are incredibly durable, considering they need to survive intact even when being beaten on while in combat.
I have been waiting for this video, and boy did you deliver! Outstanding work Alex! We'll fight over some points and agree on the remaining 99% on the discord channel!
Holy video! 2 hours! I'll have to make an appointment to watch the whole thing. Wouldn't expect less from you my friend 🔥🔥🔥
I know watching the review will take you longer than beating Sekiro, and that's why I appreciate your view.
I've been waiting for this. Thanks, Alex! You're awesome!
Thanks man! you can drop by our Discord any time if you like the channel! We have some of the most awesome people there.
You can do both the underdark and the mountain pass in a play through. I cleared the underdark did the mountain pass then went back to the underdark.
I believe that the warning when you go to the mountain pass has more to do with the Druid grove if you hadn’t completed it yet
I know. I said they weren't mutually exclusive in the video.
@@YeOldEntertainment My mistake then I didn’t catch that part. In the section on them it sounded like you were praising them for being mutually exclusive and how great it was you got to experience the githyanki chreche on your second play through.
It does seem like that was the original intent in game though. Haslin heavily implies there’s an actual choice in how you get there, but really there isn’t. Going through the underdark isn’t any easier and doesn’t really get you that much closer (if at all) to moonrise in my experience (maybe there is more than one exit from the underdark? Going through the forge got me on the path to the safe inn, but my character didn’t know of its existence ahead of time). Lore wise it’s a bit confusing since from what I understand is that the underdark is an incredibly dangerous place meant for higher level characters, but I was clearing it at level 5 (also fighting mind flayers as by level 8 later in act 2). The mountain pass was arguably easier than the underdark and a lot faster in game since you can just run past the temple of Lathandar if you really wanted. In my play through I fully cleared the underdark, then went back to do the mountain pass, then went back to the underdark to get to moonrise. While exploring the shadow area I found the pass that takes you to moonrise which again had no significant difference from going through the underdark.
It’s really weird. The game makes it out like there is a choice you have to make and you will miss out on something based off of it, but there isn’t really. You can do all the content in both paths (underdark and mountain pass) in the same play through.
Now that I think of it I did parts of the underdark before even finishing the Druid grove. All in act 1
@@YeOldEntertainmentyes, I'm glad you pointed it out. I can't count how many ppl I've seen get stuck in analysis paralysis regarding whether to use the pass or go through the under dark. "But I don't want to miss the content in the one I don't choose". Then don't!!! 😂
skill checks are only nerfed if you play with karmic dice on. if you play with simulated rolls, skillchecks matter more. i have had pick pockets go sideways with my pickpocket specific build on multiple occasions🤷♂️
Not sure if it's just me but it was difficult to concentrate on what you were saying while the combat action music kept playing so loud in the background :(
I just couldn't get into this game, I tried. I regret wasting money on something I do not enjoy. It's not the story, it's just the gameplay. I've never played DnD and with this being my first introduction to it, I don't think DnD is for me and I really don't think it works in videogame format, for me anyway.
The dice roll mechanic is just a turn off, seeing dice pop up on my screen whenever I make a choice in the game, it just broke my immersion constantly, and made me want to save and reload constantly whenever things went poorly. Turn-based games aren't my favorite style of game, and BG3 turn-based lands at the bottom of the list for me.
I hate that my friends pressured me into buying this game when I could've spent my hard earned money on something I would enjoy.
I must say, your reviews are really something, I'm really confused why don't you have more subscribers, hope that changes soon. Good luck and great job.
Thanks man! The subscribers I do I have are awesome though.
Do you do a year-end round-up of lowest-to-highest scores (or something of the like)? Kind of your on-brand version of a GOTY video?
Apparently I like hyphens
Yes I do! You can check the channel to see the two previous ones.
This is still stuck at 360p, I'll keep checking back but that is a little crazy.
You can watch now!
@@YeOldEntertainment Nice, thanks :)
Bruh of course even 10 minutes long videos get stuck sometimes
@YeOld: Would you say that BG3 is "marvelized" in comparison to BG1 and 2?
Pretty much yes. There's good and bad things about that but... yes.
@@YeOldEntertainment I don't really see any good in it. I mean a party of warriors and mages wondering the wilderness fighting monsters all everybody looks all fresh like they came out straight from a barber/ hairstylist for a photo session for Vogue LOL. What is this Fantasy Instagram? And all this woke nonsense. Since when did screwing a bear become normal?
hehe. I think it was post 2016
@@YeOldEntertainmentWhat happened in 2016? I guess I'm not up-to-date.
An evil mantle fell over entertainment, academy and other industries... it's been dark ever since...
I'm mid watching the video, love it as usual, and as usual I'm a nitpicky fucker - regarding stealth, you're right most classes don't let you see the difference, but for example Assassin subclass of Rogue lets you crit on sneak hits (when you surprise the opponent + you still get all the extra dmg from the rogue'a sneak dice, and he also recovers all his actions after a surprise round, so you can double down), Gloomstalker Ranger also has great benefits from Stealth. That's why my Astarion could clear half the map sometimes, when he attacked from stealth, insta-killed someone, got invisible (via a Dark Urge cloak that gives you invisibility on every kill), rushed to someone else and again sneak fucked them, renewing the invisibility on kill. Stealth is OP on all characters, because of the advantage mechanics, but specifically on Assassins and Gloomstalkers. Stealthy Warlock stealthily throwing someone from a cliff with Repelling Eldricht Blast and insta-killing them (and often not triggering a fight) is also quite OP. It's mostly those simple martial classes that don't benefit as much from stealth, but you still have many characters that will let you be extra-hyper-OP while stealthed/invisible. A stealthy Sorcerer that clears a whole map in one turn, because he used quickened spell + tadpole power + normal action spell from stealth, surprised enemies with it so he gets another free turn to cast some control + dmg AOE also is mega OP and does much more with stealth than normal melee heavy hitter (aside from Rogues and Rangers). This combat has more to it than it may seem, but it's often buried behind synegies, good tactics, and creative use of the spells/abilities/environment.
Cheers ❤
Over two hours! Alright, let's start this multi-day endeavor.
The fact alone that they, in contrary to pretty much all other D&D cRPGs, just cut the gameplay by 40% and sell it with a lazy lie about balance, makes it at best the opposite of GOTY.
Balance? They added a giant lot of absurd homebrew nonsense that made it much worse than high levels could ever be, especially when enforcing turn based, what overall simply doesn't work well in computer games without a DM handling the things and it feels they mainly used it to stretch the time you need to play through, since battles are 10+ times longer that way.
BG 1 and 2 were RTwP and other D&D games like the WotR simply gives you both, so you can choose how you want to play it.
Overall RTwP is simply way more realistic. When you make it turn based you must keep the actions limited, as other games do as X COM game or Wasteland and of course for sure not work with "pushed to insta death" things, which rarely make sense (as if anyone would just stay there and wait will someone runs from 20m away, climbs up and behind you to kick you from the cliff...).
And high levels are no balance problem anyway, since just as they cut down all the big NPC to make them beatable - what just ruins them - you can do the opposite and use the levels to make it more interesting and diverse, instead of making world ending threats feel little above the level of a Goblin Camp...
Other D&D cRPG not only give you the 20 level but often even more and made it work and the BG3 story clearly does not fit a level 1-12 campaign at all. At best level 6-16, but of course they cut at 12 out of laziness, no rother reason.
And the first levels in the D&D systems are awful anyway without a DM who can handle them, since the D20 RNG is much too big for the little values you have to work with on that level.
Also: what's that BS with critical success an even worse critical errors in skill checks?
And the writing is awful. Again you see with the romances how lazy they are. This is not abotu "diversity", but they simply did not care to give the characters different traits, so everyone is just fine with everything and zero build up. It's enough to not make them angry and they want to f*** you. Worst "romance" system ever.
Barrelmancy and so on is also stupid. It makes all the NPC look stupid - like a bad computer AI, utterly destroying every immersion, what is terrible in a story RPG.
I wish I could see the character I'm building inside the game. I am having to use the wiki to see if a build will be fun/combine well. Wrath of the Righteous felt like I could explore the complex builds better, even though the rules are a bit munchkin
I'm a 32 year old boomer without much free time so I'm only ending act 1 in the underdark, but so far this is the most fun I've had in this genre since KOTOR, which iirc is based on 3e/3.5e mechanics. If I have any complaints, it's dialogue. Sometimes the options I pick end up meaning something other than what I intended to say. Especially anything related to romance. I get that every companion is playersexual, but sometimes I just want to be a bro with a character. The way it always gets interpreted as a romantic advance is annoying. Outside of that I love how much this game demands replaying with new campaigns.
Kotor and kotor 2 are the only other dnd type games i've played besides baulders gate 3. Love those games. And I completely agree. I found it really bizarre and off putting when Gale or Wyll were flirting with my straight male character. Like these dudes are clearly written to be straight, especially Gale who's entire backstory is about literally dating a goddess. And Wyll flirts with the other female characters in the party pretty often. I initially wanted to be homies with gale, but I wasn't allowed to without making my character kinda gay for him or just being a dick to him for no reason. So I basically stopped talking to him.
Also, weird when Astarion tries to flirt with a female protaganist. Like my guy Astarion is clearly gay lmao, its just weird. There would be nothing wrong with making certain characters either straight, gay or bi. It would make the characters much more believable, instead of making them all blank slates of whatever sexuality the main protagonist is.
@@bmbrowns1778I mean officially Astarion is pansexual, but yeah he’s pretty fruity lol
Are you an idiot?! If you are 32 this year YOU ARE NOT A BOOMER!!! You are Milennial.
@@bmbrowns1778astarion is the type we straight think as gay but is the jack sparrow kind of guy , that every girl love ... Yes i had the same problem and i written on steam discussion about it but it seems people really like the idea of playersexual . I'm not a fan of it
I liked Act 1 and 2, Act 3 really seemed lacking. The combat had worn out its welcome by then and the story/events just weren't compelling enough to keep me going. Unlike BG1 there was no personal investment in the plot, you're just sort of there. Act 2 I was still at least partially invested in the world/story
Joder, que nostalgia me ha venido cuando has enseñado los libros de D&D de Timun Mas, eres un grande.
Esos libros fueron la gran mamá de todas las pollas. Definieron mi idea de D&D, grabaron a fuego en mi mente el ideal que tengo del concepto de literatura medieval fantástica e hicieron que me diera cuenta de que tener poder decisión sobre una historia, es lo que más aprecio en el entretenimiento.
La verdad que el juego me ha gustado pero el tema de relación de protagonista y compañeros pierde toda inmersión o sentido cuando todos te quieren llevar a la cama.
I've been playing since early access 3 years ago. And I've seen the changes Larian has made throughout. I think it would've better if they spent another year balancing out the last act. They had an unbelievable amount of work.
I'm looking forward to an anniversary edition & of course their next game.
on the other hand , maintaining a 400 employ company running needs fuel which is not free , the sweet spot is ,if not, the most difficult of equation to solve
I hate customization. So much details but only 2 body types and as always my left handed option is missing
Never heard of a game where you can make your character left handed
Pathfinder kingmaker@@lorexmusic1067
@@lorexmusic1067 Pathfinder
Camera on PS5 is horrible. Absolutely broken when there is any elevation involved, and for some reason it always goes max distance when a character is using any ability, and then focuses back on the character. I get the idea - they tried to make it “cinematic” but in reality, i never see 90% of spells and abilities because tue camera just jumps into someone’s asshole or into the sky when i cast a common fireball. Never see it actually connect
It's finally here! Hell Yes! Gonna listen to this masterpiece at work tomorrow!
The incentive to try new combat tactics is to do something imaginative and different. You're seeing the game combat as a challenge to defeat, rather than an opportunity to experiment and have fun finding imaginative, crazy, funny ways to win encounters.
As far as stealth, anyone can be "in stealth" as long as they avoid sight lines. Try being in armor with stealth penalties and walking into a sight line vs being a rogue with high stealth and light armor. You can walk right into sight lines and succeed your stealth check right in front of them.
There’s no point in trying new combat tactics when action economy exploitation is both ridiculously simple to implement and trivialises every single combat encounter in the whole game. Trying new tactics knowing that is just you creating your own fun at that point which is shitty because it’s the game’s job to do that.
The enhanced 3rd edition rule set is the best all around when all of them are looked at, keeping in mind it needs to be used in both table top and PC.
Don't know if it's the best because I never did table top. But the D&D games that I've enjoyed the most use 3rd edition.
9:50 This is exactly why I want a Savage Worlds Video Game
An adaptation of any classless RPG with a good amount of options would be great. It's not like there's a lack of them to choose from.
sees title
sees length
me: man, i wonder if he liked it
There's only one way to find out.
Wait at 9:55 why is there valorant ganeplay in the corner? Anyways the new translations look really good are you planning to cover Starfield seems like everyone who talks about the game is just rage baiting instead of providing actual feedback.
That's a stream from Fextralife, that's their website.
@@YeOldEntertainmentyeah I realised it later I just commented in the video sorry about that
This was really weel done, you have a new subscriber! Keep it up.
I LOVE YOUR POSTS BRO THANK YOU
I really can't disagree with any of your criticism, if any thing, I am more against modern day issues being in a medieval fantasy setting than you are. But I really love finally getting a good turn based game that is not super difficult, and a little more relaxing...I have been playing on Balanced and find it a good difficulty for me, I feel I can play who I want and not have to worry about optimal builds, but instead I can embrace a role.
I do think any infinity engine game of old, or Never Winter Nights game remade with a turn based mode would be a much better game than this. The most resent turn based games I have really enjoyed were Arcanum and ToEE and that was over 20 year ago. And both were quite a bit more difficult than I would prefer. I am thinking I really need to try Expeditions Rome, after watching this. I had a lot of the same issues with Divinity Original Sin, and the Pathfinder games as you did. Pillars of Eternity felt even more class locked than D&D does...I kind of want to play PoE 2 in turn-based but I never finished the first. I really just want a fun game with some nice story and world, with a freedom to be who I envision my character being, with a slow combat pace and never feeling like I need to be something stronger, or have a more balanced party.
I have been running BG3 with a Hunter Ranger, Wild Heart Karlach, Shadow Monk Shadowheart, and Abjuration Gale. None of my party is OP, it is a very RP style party, I try to cast Buffs and protection before damage spells, and I have no healer, and I do not feel gimped or wrong in any way. I don't like the heavy handed romance, nor the modern day blandness of the world where nobody is unique. But I love being able to be who I want, do what I want, how I want without being punished by the game either killing me every 5 minutes nor the game just stopping me from doing something, that might break the game. You can completely destroy towns accidentally while trying to be good, and the game will let you keep playing, you miss some side quests, but the world persists.
I loved Karlach though, I did not see her so much as a modern 20 year old, as much as just a huge dork. 5e sucks and won't let you dump a stat, but she should have had a charisma of, at most, 5. She's the only character in any game with romances, that I really felt I could go that extra step towards, just to see how that awkward personality played out. I am not into her look much at all, physically the least attractive companion...but that personality, or lack of one, made her cute.
I would not have minded the silent protagonist as much if playing an origin character was voiced...though I much prefer being non-voiced than shoe horned into 1 person. But I would be more apt to play as an origin character if it was voiced, Lea'zel, Gale, Shadowheart, Karlach, even Astarian would be great if voiced when you played them, and give me a reason not to just go custom.
TY for sharing, frend. I too am an old school gamer that started in the mid 90s. I have played every kind of RPG out there, but this one, it still WOWed me. Sure it does not have a stellar story or the best writing, but it ticks so many boxes that many other RPGs dont even come close that i am confident in saying it is one of the BEST RPGs of the decade. For me, the best parts are the gameplay, amazing sandbox combat system, the great exploration, interesting dialogue options and so many branching stories that you would probably not see all of the game even in 5 playthroughs. I like some of the companions while others i just ignore, but i did play my own RP and when the dialogue options are poor i just invent my own.
I started as a wise old elf ranger to play my Legolas from LOTR fantasy and i am pleased that the game allows you to play this stoic wise and good character in most interactions. I travel mostly with La'zael, Karlach and Shadowbabe because i just like their playstyle a lot. I made LZ my main tank, Karlach is a crazy berserker barbarian (i didnt go wild heart because she doesnt have a heart so it was not immersive). I try to play very immersive so i build my characters as i imagine it best fits their personalities and back stories. For example Wyll has to be a fiend warlok with a pact of the blade. It just wouldnt work any other way for me considering his back story. I never really liked Gale for some reason, always thought he was weak in combat so i turned him into the camp's alchemist as a transmutation wizard. Now he just sits in camp, reads the dozen books i put in his inventory and he makes some mean potions in my improvised alchemy lab. In act 2's camp i found an old abandoned house that has 2 tables and that is where i made my alchemy lab and a nice research and study desk. I like to craft immersively so i only brew potions with Gale at the alchemy lab now. The fact that the game allows you to take most items with you and use them as decorations was a BIG plus for me. As a man who appreciates a nice player home in an RPG, the camps in BG3 partially scratch that itch for me. And i spent many hours positioning some crates and placing objects on them and also adding small items to the tents of each companion.
I like to play slowly and i also play on balanced because i just want to enjoy the game and not sweat too much at combat or have to reload a save 10 times because enemies just keep killing my allies. My fav part of the game is exploring and interacting with NPCs, discovering interesting ruins and also seeing the cool companion quest lines. I do enjoy the complexity of the combat gameplay but i like that it does not happen too often so as to become a nuisance.
I like to play as immersively as possible and also make my characters look good with the armors and clothing i find in the game. In my second play i will make a melee character and will try a totally different party.
Enjoy the game and have a great day :)
@@mancamiatipoola I like your thoughts here, Though I do disagree about Karlach's lack of a physical heart. She has a lot of love, passion, possibly more heart than any of the other followers. She also loves freedom, which I think makes her an ideal Eagle Heart, as I think of an Eagle as soaring free in the sky. She works well as a Berserker too, I have even thought about trying one for her, but I do like mixing up builds for the next run....especially if they fit the character, because I too, favor that immersion.
I think with Wyll, while he is a Fiend bound Warlock, he also would break away, try to rely less on the pact, so then having him muticlass into a fighter, or a college of Blade Bard works, since both will allow him to master the way of the blade...he is the Blade of Frontiers after all. My next run will be as a Lore Bard, so when Wyll muticlasses to Bard to better hone his skills with the blade, it will be partly because of my teaching him the ways of a bard, to enhance what he already knows.
I have also thought about Lae'zel going tank fighter, and then taking some levels in Vengeance Paladin, or Cleric...mostly depending on how I side with her in act 2. I could also see her as a full War Cleric for sure.
@@colmortimer1066
Interesting choices. Wyll could work as a bard since he is very well spoken and always tries to Woo the ladies. I took him with me in act 2 because of the story he is connected to, and he would not stop hitting on my girls LOL! As the Blade of Frontiers i would build him as a pact of the blade and fighter battle master, which seems to fit his fighting style and back story very well. However in my play i went with pact of the blade and sorcerer since i wanted to have more spell slots and interesting spell effects. Though i mostly just play melee with him XD. Will see how it goes.
L'Z i am planning to multi into war cleric to have those extra attack charges, the guided strike and the magic weapon buff which are all amazing on a martial class. Will probably go with 8 fighter - 4 war cleric so i can pick up all those juicy feats.
As for my ranger beast master i have no idea really... You kinda have to stick to BM until lv 8 to get the feat and make my pet stronger, but after that i dont know. I was thinking either druid or monk to get a few more spells or abilities, but really the BM ranger is missing nothing. He is great at massive single target damage and he also has one of the best AOEs in the game - spike growth. I should really get 1 wizard so i can learn the spell Haste, which is really one of the best spells for any martial class.
What would you suggest? Druid - cleric - monk?
@@mancamiatipoola Honestly, I would probably not muticlass a ranger without a good reason. At level 9 you are going to get lighting arrow, then at 11 your companion will get and extra attack and hit points. My current character is a lvl 9 hunter with no plans of multiclassing.
If you want haste, you can get it with a party member, or just buy or make speed potions. I often use the potions with Gale having haste, so he can use other spells. the potions do only have 3 turns of haste but they do not require concentration, and just a bonus action to use.
@@colmortimer1066
Yeah, i know, it is a dillema to either use haste or another good concentration spell. I have very few speed potions left and i honestly dont know how often you find hienas in the game. Im currently in act 2 and i see no hienas anywhere. I used them in tough battles and i only have 2-3 of them left.
However i definitely dont need haste on my ranger because he usually uses hunter's mark or spike growth, which is really one of the best AOE spells in the game.
At the moment i only use it on Wyll because he can use both melee attacks and some non-conc spells, but i always forget i have haste and cast hunger of hadar and get dizzy for one turn, which is hilarious. I also waste a spell slot because he does not cast the spell, he immediately gets dizzy from the loss of haste XD.
I guess i still have a few things to learn in combat, but that is why i like to switch up my companions from time to time so i can learn more builds and combat styles.
Very good video! I enjoyed it very much. 😊
Thanks. Not everyone shared your opinion, so double-thanks.
@@YeOldEntertainment Is it the PC crowd? I am not american so I don't partake.
PC is Politically Correct.
Me: *See's 2hr review of BG3*
Also Me: *Cries* ITS SO BEAUTIFUL
I ended up agreeing with your WotR review, so I suspect I will enjoy this one as well.
Let's hope you do... and if you don't ...let's hope you don't hate it!
@YeOldEntertainment just reached the "inclusion" section and I cannot agree more. This pandering nonsense is so obvious and fake its insulting that the devs think were so stupid to not notice.
Racism and racists exist. To pretend otherwise, is to bury your head in the sand screaming to drown out reality.
huh, i thought i could do all the skill checks bc i played a jack of all trades bard, but ig everyone can do everything after all. At least the illusion was there
I was a paladin but could lockpick and disarm traps. I even could pass arcane checks which after I passed alot of those I was like bro this system is weak.
You can experience both paths to Moonrise. They are not exlusive at all. Nothing in their story changes if you take the other path before the others. Two companions starts to argue if you go one way first, but thats it. If they where exlusive, that would have been much better.
Man, your pronunciation of Alhambra and Granada was perfect. I doubted for a moment that you are from Spain
Well I am a native Spanish speaker hehe
@@YeOldEntertainment Ya me parecía. Pues entonces enhorabuena por tu inglés 😉
@@cmdrf.ravelli1405 hice solamente un video en castellano, fue de Stray.
@@YeOldEntertainment enhorabuena por la calidad del canal, dicho sea de paso
@@cmdrf.ravelli1405 Bienvenido abordo.
Yes! Finally, a fellow Expeditions: Rome enjoyer! I didn't expect much of that game only to then be absolutely blown away by how endearing the cast was, almost threw me back to my NWN 2 days with characters that are often cheesy, but also complex when it matters and able to experience growth/change throughout the story. Which is something I can't say about any of the BG3 characters apart from tentatively Shadowheart, so we agree again, lol. You're probably quite well-read, and as a fellow well-read person it just baffles me how so many people can find BG3's characters even remotely serviceable, not to mention GOOD. The same goes for the story and variability. The last modern RPG that succeeded making me go "Wow!" in that regard was Tyranny, and, well, that was the last Obsidian game I'll probably ever play since it's no longer the same company that made all those great RPGs back in the day and I see Tyranny as its flawed, rushed, unfinished, yet also an RP masterpiece swan song.
I also agree with you that we, old timers, just have to accept that RPGs that are actually heavy on the RP part are a niche now, left for the AA and indie devs to fulfill. Well, time's change and so must we.
My man... you made my day with your comment! thank you!
A lot of issues you have with the game seem to come from your own choices, and your examples of other games doing great things just reinforces that.
You say mutually exclusive paths are great and that you reached the level cap in BG3 too quickly. Well why? Because you did both the mountain pass and the Underdark. Larian doesn't believe in stopping you from doing what you want, but that does put some responsibility on the player to actually roleplay and not treat the game as a themepark where you do everything because you can do everything. It's *your* journey, you made the choice on how to interact with the game and the game did not hold your hand to keep you from overindulging. It treated you like an adult.
If combat is too easy on tactician but you exploit every advantage you can have, well that was how you tackled combat. You prepared very well for combat and were rewarded with successfully completing them. I have pulled through many combats by the skin of my teeth, simply from making stupid unoptimized choices and sticking with them. Yes, I can also run through with Shadowheart and give everyone a twenty stack of Radiating Orbs, but where's the fun in that?
I've seen multiple people lay out these criticisms and each one of them can't help themselves taking every little advantage they can. Make a deal with a hag for a stat-boost? "Of course, why wouldn't you?" is what those people think. They'd gobble up every little bit of power they can find and then seem surprised that they turned out powerful. This game is not made for them however, this game is made for the role-players who won't make a deal with a hag because it's not the right thing to do for their character. And it's made for the players who when they do choose their character to be power hungry, for those players to actually get a feeling that they did get that power.
This game is about making the choices your character would make, not about minmaxing your build.
But you can get away with doing everything you feel is right, without that decision being too taxing on the gameplay end of things. I didn't make the deal with the hag because I felt it wasn't the right thing to do. I also didn't give Viconia the artifact. These decision resulted in fights. I still could overcome the ensuing combat challenges that resulted from taking "the hard right choice" without much difficulty. In higher difficulty levels, the game should've elevated the challenge so that "taking every bit of advantage" would not be enough to breeze through the fight. As for "who the game is for", gameplay-wise, the reason why there are different difficulty levels is because there are different people who want different challenges. And some of those aren't getting the challenge they wish they had.
@@YeOldEntertainment Time to dive back in for a Dark Urge Honor Mode run?
Good solid rpg. Well written 1st & 2nd acts. 3rd act is a tad undercooked. Ending is not the best. The dice roller (in my playthrough at least) seemed to be stuck between 2 & 7 ( I didn't use karmic dice). Party management via the camp system was annoying in that you had to have a character in your party to access inventory and levelling options. But that is a pet peeve of mine and not a game breaker. I'd give the game a very respectable 8/10
Its my GOTY, especially after playing the utter SNOREFEST that was Starfield. But act 3 is absolutely atrocious in its current state, not just with half its story content missing *cough* Karlach *cough* but its performance going to absolute shit due to the half a million completely unnecessary NPC's that the engine CLEARLY wasn't designed to render at once.
1st and 3rd were the best. 2nd was undercooked.
@jamesmorton7852
8 might be the most fair score I have seen from anyone so far. Well said and great assessment. Still underwhelming compared to Baldur's Gate 2 especially in the writing department but he isn't wrong. I would love to see some older CRPGs get this kind of treatment with such a big budget. Oh how I would love a high production modern Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, and/or Planescape Torment. That would be a CRPG dream for the old time fans of the genre.
@@Supadrumma441
I say The Legend of Zelda Tears of The Kingdom which actually improves vastly on almost everything Breath of The Wild did. Baldur's Gate 3 improves a few things from the second game but also fails in so many others in comparison and that game is 23 years old now.
@@Supadrumma441 Act 3 plays just fine on PC after the latest patch. At launch, however, it was very bad.
Dark Urge seems to be the way the game is meant to be experienced in my eyes, but may have been too dark for it to be the default for modern audiences.
it definatly was, the dark urge playthrough is technicaly the continuation of bg1 & bg2 since hes a bhaal spawn and bhaals real chosen one according to the lore.
Past and torch turn-of-phrase was cool.
Can't claim authorship over that one, unfortunately. That's Mauler's phrase www.youtube.com/@MauLerYT/videos
i am like wtf. are you playing this on the switch?!?!?!?!? i didn't hear anything about a switch build!!!!!!
but it looks SUPER LIKE IT'S ON THE SWITCH!!!!!
then i check the time. release 3 minutes ago and i am watching this in 360p because of it 🤣
I just can’t stand the idea that people were raving about “being able to adjust your groin area” when all you’re doing in the final product is Adding hair or not. 🤣🤣🤣. You essentially know what everyone looks like naked cause they all have the SAME BODY TYPE
Exactly. Boobs and penis. XD
Great video. There is one point that I want to add to the overall unbelievability of the setting: Underground temples in Baldur's Gate. There are simply too many of them. I can believe in the existence of one hidden underground ruin under the city, but when I was entering the second, third and even fourth massive underground construction "hidden" underneath the city I lost any belief in the reality of this world.
Thanks! Hadn't thought of that, but it's true.
Many games fall into this trap. Let's not even go into how unrealistic the Temple of Shar is. It would take millions of slaves to build something like that. Something that isn't represented in game. But oh boy does it look awesome. It's obvious they went for looks over realism.
Good review, i don't agree on every part, but majority of the things you mentioned are head on.
Dangit I was almost caught up on my queue
2:07:26 Yeah, I can't help but agree with you. In Dragon Age Origins, I thought that an unvoiced protagonist just doesn't work with the shot-reverse shot conversation camera, and BG3 hasn't really convinced me otherwise. It just breaks immersion when I see my character standing there mute while everyone else is talking (I'm fine with an unvoiced pritagonist if the game's 1st-person, or if it keeps the isometric camera angle in conversations, since then I don't really see my character).
Yes, yes, I know that an unvoiced protagonist makes it easier to imagine your character however you like, but the conversation camera also works against this. The game will often show your character's facial expressions in conversations, for example showing fear or disgust at certain moments, that may not match how I would imagine my character reacting.
IMO, the gane should've either done an unvoiced protagonist and got rid of the shot-reverse shot conversation camera, or else gone all the way and make the protagonist voiced (although that latter option may have been prohibitively expensive).
Yup. Same feeling here. I think that Mass Effect works wonderfully and BG2 (or Pillars or any of the other games that doe this) also works wonderfully. But Dragon Age Origins (And BG3) are in an in-between that doesn't really do it for me.
@@YeOldEntertainment An interesting idea would be if the facial expressions your character made in conversations were based on your previous choices. That might actually make the compreomise work for me. It would be hard to pull off without Flanderizing your character though.
Thanks for the review! After the almost unlimited hype I'm really apprecative of a more balanced review. And you made me want to buy Solasta again, as well as give the Expeditions series some time. Oh, and maybe one day I will give BGIII a try as well :D
By the way, for whatever reason the reviews over at gog seem to be much more negative on average.
Thanks for leaving a comment my man! You mean the reviews of Solasta and/or Expeditions Rome? Those games aren't perfect. Solasta is super linear and the story is a cheeseball, but the fun factor is off the roof and they nail "feeling of party". Expeditions Rome has irriating "conquest content" which I found boring and unnecessary, but the story is engaging and high stake and it's very well written (and I cared about companions in that game!). The combat is also beyond serviceable. I have reviews for both of those games should you want to check them out btw XD.
@@YeOldEntertainment I haven't watched the Expeditions Rome review, but you did definitely sell Solasta to me. Even with all of the caveats concerning the DLCs.
Edit: It helps that they are a bit more digestible in terms of size. I'm kind of dreading Pathfinder: Kingmaker as it taunts me from out of the backlog ;)
Great vidéo congrats
Thanks!
I profoundly disagree with the character building. I think that it is DOS2 that led you to building always the same type of character, not BG3. It might be that I am biased of course because I deeply despise DOS2 and think it's the most overrated game ever made.
Well I played three times and all three times I built completely different characters. (Custom made human Summoner, Lohse as water/strom elementalist, Custom made Dwarf melee front liner). I don't think any of these characters had even one spell or talent in common.
In regards to the comment regarding the previous games being "clumbsily added in"... I just feel the need to ask: Did you try playing as Dark Urge? The story for that is literally different from all the others and makes this game feel like a true finale to the now trilogy.
No. but regardless of how that plays out. The very presence of Sarevok undoes his redemption arc from the previous games. Same with Viconia, who not only loses her character redemption arc, but also looks nothing like Viconia, sounds nothing like viconia, and says nothing that character would've said. Also the presence of Amelyssan... even if it's only as an "echo" cheapens the importance of the character.
I don't think taking any path in BG3 had the potential of feeling like a "true finale" to the saga, simply because you cannot play as your Bhaalspawn from BG1, BG2 and throne of Bhaal. Good or bad... Throne of Bhaal's final succession of stills closed the Bhaalspawn saga for good.
@@YeOldEntertainment To be fair, the redemption arc in the ToB was difficult to accomplish and I wouldn't argue is the typical ending for Sarevok in that story.
Regardless, a hundred years have passed and who knows what Bhaal has done to one of his favoured children.
And to be quite honest, you're missing a lot of the story details if you haven't played as Dark Urge regarding the Bhaal plot, so I won't judge.
As for Viconia I sort of agree with exception to the fact that Elves (and therefore Drow) are also long lived. If you're okay with Jaheira being around, then Viconia is far less of a stretch in my mind since she's not a half-elf. To play devil's advocate for Minsc, the story of him being turned to stone and coming back has been used before this game came out in Neverwinter and I believe somewhere else. It's something of a Minsc trope at this point and I'm totally cool with that.
But to each their own. I'm a big fan of the first two games myself, and I would rather that they include the characters that I could reasonably see being alive. Sarevok being a half-alive husk that became a warlord I believe was his canon ending after burying Tamoko, doomed to a life of undeath. So his existence to me seemed more canon than offputting.
Honestly though, I'd really suggest doing a Dark Urge playthrough. The redemption arc was better than the game's finale.
@@YeOldEntertainment Specific response to "Regardless of how that plays out." I think you'd be VERY surprised. You discover the roots of the entire story of BG3 ONLY by playing as the Urge. Details/certain items and available cutscenes and conversations do not exist. I cannot understate the impact Dark Urge has on the story of the playthrough.
@@crazedmike9907 Just to make one thing clear. I never said Viconia shouldn't be in the game because she's too old to be live. I just think that it doesn't add to the story. I don't these characters needed to be in the story regardless of how plausible it is for them to be alive. I even think this of Jaheira and Misnc (who I enjoyed for different reasons) . They just make the story more convoluted. It feels more like the writers went out of their way to include them rather than a consequence of how the events are unfolding. A bit like the legacy characters in the new Star Wars Fiilms.
@@YeOldEntertainment The presence of Minsc and Jaheira for Dark Urge playthrough is unbelieveable (EDIT: In a good sense, they play a bigger role). The fact that the story centers so much around Shar and Viconia was such a devout follower of the Dark Lady... I dunno. To me, exclusion of these characters from the game almost makes me go "How is this all connected to BG1 and 2"? Without those characters that we invested in and moved on from to connect us to the past, the whole premise that this is a continuation of those two stories goes out the drain if you intend to take these three as a "Trilogy".
And particularly the characters of Minsc and Jaheira are impacted by the Dark Urge playthrough more than Viconia. Depending on your choices, you will find that they get very different options and endings available to those characters.
Dark Urge is honestly the secret game mode that should be addressed when reviewing this game PARTICULARLY for those old fogies like us that are big fans of the originals. The Dark Urge playthrough is not for the light of stomach (especially if you don't save scum), but boy oh boy did they make me feel like I was back in BG1 and BG2 again.
You mentioned the Shadowrun games!!!!
That is all.
I think the second one in the "Return" saga is brilliant.
If it had pathfinder combat rules it’d be the best (complete with combat and exploration etc) crpg ever made. 5e combat rules suck. Disco is the only objectively better rp game I think, but it’s just roleplaying.
Nah pathfinder rules are too difficult for an average gamer who just wants to have fun
The bg3 review I was waiting for
Nice review although I don't really get the criticism towards Astarion and Wyll, like, I myself wouldn't ever get along someone like Astarion acts but he has entertaining and pretty smart interactions with the possible party mwmbers. wyll may be boring but you can't say he "changes depending on the situation" like, doesn't any sane peopls have different approaches to different occasuons? Lae'zsl and Shadowheart I find to be the cooler characters in regards to how they act and develop honestly. I agree partially on the "if anyone can be anyrhing there's no distinction in races etc" since in bg3 you can clearly see that still there are Races which act and are treated as the stereotypes all the way through, which is good. People are kind of obsessed with inclusion as you say but still I didn't even notice until I came across your video that amount of "forced wokeness" aside from Dame Aylin trope.
Still I enjoyed your perspective and look forward to see more of your passionate content
Great review, very in depth.
Sometimes a bit too nitpicking about unimportant details, after all it's a video game and it has to be fun.
u need far more viewer and subs
The ones I have are awesome. But thank you!
Probably the most overrated game ever. I played 80 hours on lowest difficulty just to see what the fuzz was about and still had to cheese pretty much every fight hard, because it's just bonkers: Start fight purely for scouting, lose, restart and abuse every game mechanic to cheat the idiotic AI. That's not good gameplay.
If you are not into D&D, minmaxing and build-tinkering, this is just idiotically hard to a needlessy frustrating amount. After those 80 hours thinking it was me that was the problem, i just gave up at another insanely hard battle, because i felt like the game took the piss out of me. No, thanks.
Probably not the best. But very damn close to it.
This review stands out for pointing out how some things can be good in one way and bad in another. Such as Karlach being a character who really doesn't fit into this world, but having such exceptional voice acting that you tend to forget this at least at times. I also appreciate how you point out the cognitive dissonance when entering the city, which is so unplausibly cosmopolitan that it actually manages to feel futuristic. Together with the trivialization of ethnicity and culture, this is disastrous for worldbuilding, and you give that fact the weight it deserves. "Everywhere is anywhere", as I've called this when talking about how this game deals with space and time as if they didn't exist.
Considering companions, I think Lae'zel should be mentioned as someone who adds a lot to the story and who comes across as real. You might be tempted to kill her early in the game, but IMO she's one of the most authentic companions, who manages to stay authentic while undergoing significant character development. You don't see that all that often in games. Even her romance is good (I think it shouldn't be there unless you play a githyanki, since they are their own species, but that's a different topic), and the voice acting is superb and gives her great screen presence on top of that.
All in all this is a review I would recommend watching over many others, if you can spare the time. It's worth watching, listening and considering even where you might be predisposed to have a different opinion.
Thanks man!
People bitching about inventory management clearly have problem with organization in their lives as a whole... This game gives you bags (defaulted ones for a few things) and you can pick up additional ones. When looting all you got to do is be bit diligent in KNOWING HOW TO ORGANIZE YOUR OWN SHIT. "Armor, this bag, all these weapons that bag, trash you will sell all in common bag straight up marked as wares for sale." All these complaints about the inventory and its lack of "doing everything for you" sounds like baby entitlement and you do a disservice to yourself echoing it. Apart from that, very good video, especially your analysis regarding the catering to modern sensibilities.
I work with UX in my job.. The standard UX now is not what you mention. I didn't mind having to do that back in the 2000s with Baldu'rs Gate or Icewind Dale. That's how it was back then.. But you don't have to do this in Pillars of Eternity or Pathfinder or even Black Geyser. I did do what you said with bags and pouches, but 1st. That was time invested in things I don't want to invest time in in these games. 2nd. That adds extra clicks that shouldn't be there.
Soo took me a while to finish watching this review (watched it more or less in chunks of 15-30min) and yeah, I agree with almost everything you said. Well aside from the voiced protagonist, sure, would've been nice but there are so many ways to ruin voiced delivery. Jennifer Hale did a stellar job with femShep, but would that work in BG3? I am not sure. I liked Hawke in DA2 and hated the Inquisitor in DAI for example.
But everything else? Especially the 'meh' story beats? 100% agree! Even though Dark Urge is an improved Tav, their story reaaaaaaaaally feels tacked on, is full of plot holes and gigantic leaps of logic. I have finished 2 runs and am close to finishing a 3rd, mind you I tend to do a close to 100% of each playthrough. 1st run was a basic Tav (drow - silver dragon sorc), 2nd was a high elven (red dragon sorc - sadly no interactions with the many red dragons present in BG3, kinda sad about it) 'good' Dark Urge and my 3rd is another 'good' Dark Urge, but this time a tiefling cleric of Selune (wanted to see how badly the game's narrative would break in act 2 to accommodate that class and origin combo and it is hilarious btw.).
Anyway, when it comes to the racial issues I am so damn sad to say that NWN2, a game's that almost 20 yr old handled drow better! Sure, gobbo camp lets you walk around because you're a drow and all the goblins bend over backwards to try to please you (which makes sense given Minthara's presence) and you get bunch of flavor dialogue and that's it! Nobody seems to care that you're a drow, totally a normal occurrence it seems! Compare that to everyone in West Harbor treating you differently because you're a drow, whispering behind your back and whatnot. Random bandits on the road commenting on your race, potential companions commenting on your race too! Everyone approaches you anxiously because you're a damn drow in NWN2! That is what I expected out of BG3 and sadly didn't get... same thing's with BG3's tieflings, it really seems like in BG3 (and in 5th edition of D&D) your race is just a costume, instead of being a defining characteristic of how you were raised, approach others (drow females tsk tsk) and how others approach you.
Look I am a drow fangirl, if given an option to play a drow, I will pick it! Like crap, I love the stories of raising above one's inherent evilness to become a kind and compassionate hero! Those are imho some of the best stories there are and also a major selling point for 'good' Dark Urge runs, there is this one scene, when you complete your Durge's story arc in act 3 that is absolutely fantastic and worth replaying the game just for that!
I 100% agree about "raising above one's inherent evilness/shortcomings/exteral prejudices" to be great for role playing. That's why I love the castless dwarf origin in Dragon Age. But this opportunity has been all but neutered in 5th edition. I don't see these opportunities ever coming back... this started way back when Gypsies were removed. There were some seriously CYOA books in which you were the Gypsie who had to overcome the world's prejudices.
Yeah I was a little disappointed with my drow playthrough. I thought I would get more pushback. Most of the pushback I got was in Act 1 (which of course had the most time devoted to it in early access). I was hoping it would come when I got to the city. But so far it hasn't. I'm still enjoying my female drow playthrough, however.
Thank you for the amazing review I have watched at least 20 or more this is by far the best one more to say than just BG3 good!
I think the opinions have been very extreme. I though I'd pour out everything that I like and everything that I don't like about the game.
D&D used to be about Immersing yourself in the World, Playing a Character IN that World. Now its about Playing a Fantasy Version of YOURSELF, and seeing what effect you can have on it. Basically D&D has become an Isekai Adventure, instead of a Fantasy one. This along with the Simplification of the Rules is why I stopped playing after 3.5 (well also the Cost of buying all those Books again).
Xactly.
To be fair the simpler rules leave a lot of space to work with, which can be either a negative or positive take depending on what type of campaigns you like playing
Lol, that's a really intuitive way of explaining it. The first two games feel like you're on the Sword Coast adventuring, the third one feels like you're hanging out in a fantasy theme park.
1:37:00 all of the relationship point so true
the game is just filled with too much virtue signal to appear inclusive leading to broad actions and nothing actually to their "inclusion" devs too afraid to say "this character is only straight/gay/bi/for humans/tieflings/etc" leads to boring characters once they're actually analyzed the game is just bad and a far cry from BG 1 and 2
Come on, even James Ohlen said that BG1 companions were like cardboard cutouts. In my opinion BG3 is below BG2 in writing, but way above BG1.
Best BG3 review! As always, pure quality from Ye Old
Finally got the time to sit and watch the whole video in one sitting. You bring many good points and observations and we seem to agree on many things, like how horny the characters are and how the game can be immersion breaking due to all the 'messaging' done all over. But gameplay, story branch, choice and consequence and production value wise the game is great and easily a game of the year contender. Heck, BG3 made many other game developers from AAA-industry tell us not to expect same level of quality from other RPGs because BG3 was made in exceptional circumstances. And while I can see where some of them are coming from (I'm not expecting smaller indie developers, who are sometimes just one guy, making an RPG like BG3), I am also, as a potential paying customer, expecting the so called AAA-developers to learn a thing or two from BG3 and make better RPGs in general if they want any of my money.
One thing that I do disagree with you is regarding a voiced protagonist. The Witcher and Mass Effect games differ in a sense that in the former you play as Geralt of Rivia. A specific character who has a distinct voice, so it's easier and cheaper to voice a protagonist like him. In Mass Effect you play as either male or female Commander Shepard, so there's more voice acting work required, but they're both still humans. I can't imagine an elf, a dwarf and a half-orc male or female ever sounding the same, so hearing that same voice coming out of very different racial versions of Tav (the player character) would sound bizarre. Sure you could say 'hire more voice actors to provide different voice options in character creation'. Which would be great if Larian could've done that, but can you imagine how much work and thus money it would require to voice ALL of different Tavs' voicelines in the game? It's an impressive and no doubt costly achievement to voice every NPC down to every animal already. One of the reasons why I think Fallout 4 came out with only a few dialogue options compared to past games and limited roleplaying opportunities and choices is because the protagonist was fully voice acted. I rather have all the dialogue options possible and wide variety of choice and consequence over fully voiced player character in my RPGs any day of the week.
And lastly I'd have a request for your future videos; next time whenever you announce that you're about to start talking about spoilers, add the timeline we can click to skip the said spoiler section on the screen.
Thank you for the long, in-depth review!
Edit: Fixed some typos.
so much truth still
especially on the virtue signaling of the game that's often ignored in mainstream reviews
its all so cringe and propagandist
Thanks my man!
That was a long wait but worth it:)
27:55 ofc i remember that dlc, it has some gr8 fights
BG3 is a good game with some serious flaws. Still, it's the best cRPG in the last decade at least, the best game made by Larian (D:OS2 was really bad by the way) and it's main competitors: POE and PF are no match (more so with a trash like Wrath of the Righteous)
@poMocnyMichal
In the places that actually count no it isn't even close. You still got Tyranny, Disco Elysium, Pillars of Eternity, Age of Decadence, Wasteland 2, etc. All those have far superior writing which is the key element of CRPGs and are not even 10 years old by this point. Sad you would include POE and say it is no match. In terms of writing it is far superior even if many mechanics are much better in comparison with BG3.
Is a very good game but for me personally is not better than second one, my biggest complain is the 4 party members and the horrible act 3 in story and performance department, seems rush and bland when compare to act 1(amazing) and act 2.
I share your opinion. Act 3 is a atrocious performance wise, Larian needs to give us "disable unneccessary non quest NPC" option, not only do they kill performance, but they never shut.the.fuck.up. Repeat dialogue non stop is something that annoyed the hell out of me in DivOS2 and is even more out of place here.
Act 3 has some of the best and worst story moments, but yea performance is bad. It’s also bad that i hit level cap 50 hours before the end😂
@@Supadrumma441 Larian is infamous for they're stupidly fucking annoying town NPCs. No wonder why so many people love killing everyone in DOS2
Greta video man
Greta? how dare you! hehe. Thanks.
ahah involuntary joke is the best joke@@YeOldEntertainment
We did it. CRPG is mainstream again. 🥳
@flunkyballs4610
But at what cost? If a CRPG fails in so many ways to improve the strongest aspects of the genre to a 23 year old predecessor being mainstream might not be the best as this is what many would come to expect going forward.
I think they game would be much better if they didn't make companions playable and instead made a couple more Origins like the Dark Urge, basically did something similar to what Dragon Age Origins already did. What I really liked about DAO's system is that it grounded your character in the world, you were actually someone who lived there, you were a part of a group, you had family, friends, enemies etc. You weren't just another blank slate nobody and it made the game so much more immersive and enjoyable, I wish more games took this route.
About companions: I thought I'd hear you praise Minthara or Lae'zel, but you liked the most basic girl in the game .... I feel like she has a similar conflict to Lae'Zel, they both have to challenge their faith in their god\ god-queen, but I feel like Shadowheart's resolution to that conflict can be a little underwhelming. Otherwise yes, Wyll is boring af. They should've given him more of a conflict with his Warlock thing, cause they make it out to be such a big deal that he is a Warlock, but his reasons for making a pact with a Devil are perfectly reasonable and even admirable, he wanted to save his city and then he used his pact to protect people of the Sword coast lmao like ... WHERE IS THE CONFLICT??? Also you completely lost me on all characters having modern day opinions and zoomer mentality, I can concede about most, but again Lae'Zel and Minthara are clear examples of characters who are in opposition to modern day values or sometimes just alien to us, because they are literally aliens. These two by far are the most compelling characters for me. Definitly agree on characters having preferences, it's a little immersion breaking that Githyanki who literally moments ago told me how they are disgusted by my race, would drag me into bed the next moment?? Although they do make a point that it's not the physicality that attracts them, still it's strange how they are literal space-lizard communist-nazis??? and they are dtf with any race ...
For the eyes, Ye Old! For the eyes! A very fair and balanced review, indeed! I'm currently enjoying the game and despite it's faults, its a very impressive package, but it's not the best game ever, let alone the best Baldur's Gate game.....I'll take 1 and 2 over this....but, as I said, it's still enjoyable. I think a problem with us old farts, is we're still wrapped up in nostalgia and the oooo, ahhh factor. The other thing is the over horny characters seems so current generation, but is just a weird distraction to me. But for all that it's a fun jaunt, but once I'm done....I'll be back in Faerun via BG 1&2.....
I think you can play it twice over There's enough content to have a thoroughly enjoyable second run.
@@YeOldEntertainment Thx for the advice and response. Funny thing, though.....I've played BG 1 and 2, literally dozens of times since they first came out....and will continue to do so....this one, not so much......lol!
@@athenassigil5820 Oh of course. But I think you can milk the investment and the fun with two runs.
@YeOldEntertainment you can get 2 playthroughs just by doing a Dark Urge run-through. I'm definitely doing that when I finish my first run.
I tried to get into this game, put about 60 hours or so in (and it was fun) but all it made me end up doing was putting it down and re-installing the old games. Started a level 1 character and now I'm nearing the end of Throne of Bhaal. Nostalgia is a factor, but I'd argue it's less nostalgia and more that the first two are simply legendary games. They hold of very well.
Can't we just say it's one of the better, least expected games in a while without going for best game ever
Yes but the fans of Bg3 love fighting over whether or not it's a masterpiece and the greatest thing ever and any critique is blasphemy.
@@grizzlyadamblack BG3 fans blindly shill for the game and blatantly ignore the fact that the game is unfinished.
@@jimmythegamer2231 Oh ik.
@@jimmythegamer2231 Unfinished? The game is plenty long enough as is. Too long if you ask me. I can't be bothered to do every little thing in Act 3, I just want to finish it at that point.
Love the game, quite possibly the best game ever, in spite of the (extremely jarring) woke stuff. I could almost vomit at the relationship between Dame Aylin and Isobel and the other forced insertion of LGTV nonsense. But otherwise, the game is great - quite possibly the best game ever, actually. I fell in love with Shadowheart.
Dude! stop impersonating me XD haha. This is almost exactly were I stand, I don't know if the best game EVER, but so far, it's the best game of the decade for me.
Almost vomit? Why? Or is it your usual reaction towards same sex couples?
1:28:00 ironic
with the current state of the gaming industry anything above mediocrity is already celebrated as the greatest of all time
Dwarves women are supposed to be able to have beards.
Great review. Thanks for voicing out some of the criticism a lot of us old timers have about the game. As you mention, these critiques don't bring down an excellent game, one of the best we've got as of late, and one I'm still enjoying after a couple of hundred hours.
But my main complain is that BG3 isn't a real sequel. The story could've happened in any city of the Sword Coast. It's extremely loosely tied to the Bhaalspawn saga, but not near enough. But story aside, the whole artistic vision is nowhere near the other two games. The color palette, the architectural composition, the geography, the city itself, the music, the tone... none are even close to the other two games. The city doesn't look anything like the original one, neither do the rural areas. (Not to mention the population composition) The music from the two first games doesn't sound anything like what BG3 gave us, no matter how good this soundtrack is. It's incredible how this game is so alien to the other two but still considers itself a sequel.
As a standalone game. I agree with your score. As a sequel... well, it really ain't.
Yup, you pretty much nailed it. It would've been better if it had taken place in Waterdeep, Rashemen, the ten towns of Icewind Dale or somewhere else in Faerun and had had, of course, a different name. That is if they were all hellbent on making it a D&D game. Because they could've made it a Divinity Original Sin 3.
I played bg1 and it has the same problem with the soundrack as bg3. The soundtrack is AMAZING, but during combat it keeps repeating the same 3-4 tracks and it gets annoying
I mostly agree with your takes. For me, it's a mixed bag. When the game is good, its great. But, when the game is bad, its terrible.
The memberberries are both the best and the worst aspects.
The "current day" stuff was terrible, as well as the script and their treatment of the lore.
The ending sucked ass.
However, the exploration was awesome. The voice acting was superb. I actually liked Wyll and he was my favorite companion because he was the only unambiguously heroic companion until Jaheria and Minsc came along. I like Real Time with Pause combat for these games a lot more than turn based, but the combat was fun and engaging almost all of the time.
The problem is that my enjoyment for the game kept diminishing as it went on. Like you said, hitting that cap just as I start Act 3 was terrible because, since i played this at launch, the performance, bugs and glitches, plot and ending all came together at the same time as I am no longer rewarded for fighting since by that point my party was already decked out with awesome gear. Yeah there's some good things here and there but fighting started to feel more like a chore. Although I appreciate and recognize the ingenuity of it, I really dislike "barrelmancy" as too gamey for a game like this and there's some real stinkers in Act 3 in terms of combat encounters, like trying to save all those hostages. And then there's the wet fart of an ending and the Emperor doing a complete 180 because I chose Orpheus but instead of letting us die through the tadpoles by relinquishing his protection, he gladly allowed us enough time for Orpheus to protect us instead.
The ending was so abrupt and devoid of closure and showing meaning to the journey that really soured the experience for me. Even ToB had ending slides for your companions. Here? we get nothing. Withers doing a Marvel after credits stinger. That's it.
For me it is most definitely not the game of the decade. It is a very mixed experience that has some enjoyment to be had if you are a fan of the genre but it is not without having to look the other way more than once at its glaring flaws.
Still, I really enjoy your content and appreciate you took the time to be as thorough as you always are and I really liked your review so thank you so much for your hard work!
The Orpheus route is ABYSMAL. There's absolutely no reason for the emperor to turn on you... The Netherbrain is STILL his enemy. And it's the apex of plot-convenient bullshit that Orpheus is immediately capable of protecting you... and also capable of lowering your defenses against the brain just enough for you to become Illithid (if that's what you choose to do) only to raise them again so that it doesn't fully consume you. And I agree with you on the lack of Falloutesque slides in the end (An RPG that doesn't have that automatically gets a minus 0.3 in the final score). And there's more we could've said but man... this review was exhausting! some things had to be left out. Of all the games I've played this decade, this has been the best so far. But then again... I did have to look the other way as you say.
@@YeOldEntertainment Agreed.
I will wait for the eventual "Definitive Edition" rolls around and perhaps some mods to give this game a 2nd chance. Hopefully Larian expands on the ending but I think just letting time pass and replaying it knowing that the journey is going be way better and more enjoyable than the destination may lead me to enjoy the game more.
So far, after the ending credits rolled out I really felt, and still do, that the real BG3 was the friends we made along the way.
Anyways, looking forward to your next review. Always a happy time when I see your title cards on my notifications.
apparently it's not a very good sequel despite being an excellent game
Pretty much sums it up.
@@YeOldEntertainment
Haven't played BG2 for almost a decade and haven't been able to play BG3, but the inclusion of an Echo of FUCKING AMELYSSAN, who was a traitor of Bhaal had me laughing. Bhaal did not deserve that insult. No wonder BG2 fans were seething.
It really should be called something else. If they wanted to have USA level of diversity without fans calling it out perhaps Waterdeep should be the setting and not Baldur's Gate.
Which is honestly okay for me since the Bhaalspawn Saga was completed with Throne of Bhaal. We never needed a sequel tbh. Larian made the right decision making BG3 more or less standalone.
@@matternicuss
So the name IS bait, then. Even your character being a Bhaalspawn feels forced. Sarevok going back to Bhaal is almost absurd, too, even more so that Bhaal let him.
@@budakbaongsiahthat’s marketing my man. Not the first time this has happened with the name “Baldur’s Gate”. Remember Dark Alliance?
BG2 itself really should have just been called Shadows of Amn, but marketing logic says to call it BG 2…
😬...
Yikes bud...
I can understand each critique you made of the game but to be honest all of them are highly debatable. Is like there was no concrete or blunt critique at all, everything is subjective, personally I like 5e more than 3e but that is a personal taste that should not be a reason why bg3 will gain a critique, this is like an example just to make it a little more clear
Every critique/review everyone everywhere makes is highly debatable. These are just my opinions. I do not wish to establish the absolute truth of anything. I just like to structure my opinions with "This is what I like/dislike--> this is why" they don't have to be your reasons nor anyone else's, they are my reason just like, I imagine, you have yours to like/dislike things.
I encountered 3 game breking bugs in act 3, last drop was infinite loop dialoge with Steel Watcher and decided to stop and wait for DE.
Also Evil playthrough is more bugged and lacking, you lose or can't recruit 5 (or 6, if Gael is not convinced) companions and to replace them you get 1 (Minthara, that is bugged to boot). You close a lot of quests, but not open any new. I feel evil playthrough was not considered when making the game, and it treats evil as failure or accident instead.
Also 1 thing that grinded my gears in addition to what you said (inventory etc.), skill check rolling dice is good for first few times, but I would like option to skip the rolling as it gets annoying after 10th time.
What was your experince with/Did you try, evil playthrough?
Skill check wouldn't feel irritating if: 1st you could actually fail the damn things or 2nd, if you could fail them and they opened up different avenues of story progression instead of resulting in combat or failing the attempt. But as they are, they are so freaking annoying.
As for the evil campaign, about 10 or 15 years ago I decided I was going to play evil campaigns anymore, because game developers have forgotten how to make evil campaigns rewarding. Their approach is "you are bad and you should therefore be rewarded with a bad ending" which is more like a punishment. They have forgotten the concept of evil in D&D as described in the manual in the original Wizardry:
Good characters are really good. They go out of their way to help old ladies cross the street.
Neutral characters take life as it comes. They would help an old lady cross the street if they were traveling in the same direction.
Evil characters are not really evil when compared to some of the things they fight in the Maze. They are self-centered, and always want to know "what's in it for them." Evil characters help old ladies cross the street for a small fee.
So... I just don't play evil characters.
counterspell, sentinel and all the reactions are better than overwatch
Those are different talents that only apply under certain circumstances, not skills that you prepare. Solasta for example has counterspell AND ready (which works like overwatch). That's what I would've wanted.
This, THIS. Is a Review. Im currently on the wait for the "rumored" anyversary update, because it seemed obvious to me that the act 3 got butchered to get the game to release this year. MAYBE we get something even better then.
I really wanted to like Baldur's Gate 3. It was clear that Latian put thought and effort into the game. But the game just isn't for me. One, I hate turn-based combat (I prefer Bioware-style real-time-with-pause combat) and two, I dislike cutscenes. And, boy, does Baldur's Gate 3 have a lot of them!! There were times when I felt like I wasn't playing a video game, I was watching a movie. That just isn't my idea of fun. I wan't able to finish my first playthrough and I doubt I have the patience to attempt a second playthrough either. Fortunately for me, I didn't have to pay for the game: a very close friend (a moderator on Bethesda's Discord, ironically) gifted me the game for my birthday. .
But Bioware games also had a lot of cutscenes. 🤨
@@flunkyballs4610 You missed my point. I will simplify my words so that you can understand: "I prefer real-time-with-pause combat."
It all comes down to what kind of games you like. I don't get why you even tried playing a story-driven rpg if you don't like cutscenes. Seems like you have an issue with story driven turn based games
@@flunkyballs4610bg1 and 2 (superior BG games) didn't tho 😮
59:26 Encapsulates my mayor gripe with a lot of modern entertainment. They took the "northern Europeans" out and replaced them with the population mix of New York City or London, regardless if it fits the setting or not. The first game for me where this broke my immersion sometimes was Dragon Age Inquisition. The most egregious recent offender in that regard to me was Hogwarts Legacy, a game I nonetheless enjoyed quite a bit. In BG3 I'm still at Moorisetowers on my first play through, so I haven't seen some of the most annoying stuff, apparently.
I think the worst offender is still Pathfinder Kingmaker.
@YeOldEntertainment as I haven't played that one, I can neither agree nor disagree, but as we seem to share similar views on the matter, I'll take your word for it.
Yeah, it's very immersion breaking and reeks of real world politics jammed in. Both of which suck. And it's even dumber because the Forgotten Realms has distinctive regions, ethnicities, races, and cultures. In the first two games when you saw a dark skinned person you assumed they were Calimshan or something. And then you'd talk to them, and they'd have a Calimshan accent, say they were from Calimshan, and it would feel like a living breathing world.
Its not for me thats for sure. Writing kinda of sucks and i really dont like the characters. Not to mention the disrespect of returning ones like Viconia. That one hurt let me tell you.
I honestly feel this would have been better had it not been connected to Baldurs Gate and just been its own thing.
Viconia got done sooooo so dirty.
Same with Sarevok. My Sarevok was redeemed and even joined my party for the final battle in ToB.
And now suddenly it's like "yeah... I am evil again,"
Also the Dark Urge origin, supposedly DUrge must kill because he is a bhaalspawn. Ok... somehow my Paladin on the original saga was able to resist the urges and even use healing magic due to being a good aligned Bhaalspawn.
Basically, the lore is all kinds of f**ed up.
Finally, I wholeheartedly agree. I've been saying this since the game launched, this is Divinity Original Sin 2.5 in with a D&D coat of paint. It would have been much, much better as that instead of tacking on the BG name.
You can tell Larian really wanted to tell the story of mindflayers but had to tack on the Dead Three plotline just to have ties to Bhaal and thus to the original games.
@@GamerGarm yeah, the badly written lore and making to where you essentially have no impact by making character like Sarevok evil again really messed up the game for me.
Then the story itself was really not that great and yup you can tell this would have been better had it just been about Mindflayers. Maybe then actually using Mindflayer powers would have had consequences as originally promised. The dead three didn't need to happen. It honestly would have been better that way, more respectful to BG 1&2 in my opinion.
@@cadis4257 So much this. I refrained from using the powers as I really wanted to avoid becoming a mindflayer so much. And in the end you don't even get a pat in the back.
Also, if you end up becoming one, one the last lines the narrator says about your character is along the lines of "you've never felt so COOL". It really shows how much of a boner Larian had about mindflayers and making the Player into one.
I played the entire game trying to avoid becoming a mindflayer only to realize it is ME3 all over again and you either choose to become one or convince someone else to do it, or side with the Emperor and onwards to either Control or Destroy the Reapers, I mean, the Netherbrain and then pretty much the same ending cutscene happens and then roll credits.
What a terrible way to end a cRPG. What I don't understand is, when ME3 did it, EVERYONE gave them tons of flak, righfully so.
But, when Larian does it, everyone claps. Why? This game will not have a direct continuation nor having to bottle neck save imports from previous games, so we could have had wildly different ending scenarios depending on our choices and it would have been fine.
I understand that would require a lot of more work into it, and I am not really demanding it but, I do find curious that Larian gets a pass when Bioware got raked over the coals for doing the same thing.
@@GamerGarm yeah it is curious why people are giving such bad writing a pass and acting like choices matter in this game.
Might be a combination of hype, standards being lower than ever thanks to normies, and just people being desperate for something just a bit above the micro transaction live service current industry.
Gaming is worse than ever and keeps on getting worse.
Agreed. I don't think all the writing sucks, but it has a very 'modern day' vibe to it and much of it did suck. The mindflayer/githanki angle should have been the whole game and had nothing to do with BG at all. They could have even called it BG: Mindflayer something, something, and I wouldn't care. But when you call it BG3 I'm gonna compare it to the others, and that's a high bar to pass... which it does not.
Saying something is overrated isn't the same as saying it's bad, especially when most people are claiming it's the best thing ever. Personally, I don't think BG3 is bad, but I do think it's overrated and also not really to my personal tastes. There are so many CRPGs I would rate above it, it's not even funny.
As a huge CRPG fan, I honestly think BG3 has done the best overall. Yes if you look at specific things then other games have done better (even Larian’s own Divinity OS2 has a better combat than bg3 IMO). But if OVERALL, I think. bg3 is on top by far.
@@joshbarba2225I disagree about DOS2 being better combat wise. It’s just absurdly clunky, is there a bit more strategy at times. Maybe?
But the systems are not nearly as fleshed out as BG3 imo. Talent system with DOS was horrible. Hot take
Ffs don't say these things out loud. The Larian fanboys will stone you to death!
@@joshbarba2225bg2 is better.
On the flip side, saying you think something is the best ever doesn't mean you think it is perfect.
Personally, I think BG3 is the best CRPG I have ever played. Is it a perfect game? Hell no! Not even close.
Finaly XD
It wasn't easy my man... it wasn't easy.
@@YeOldEntertainment
Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar
Is a nice one, dont know if you tried it
I really like BG3 but I'm hesitant to recommended it to people who aren't already interested in CRPGs. It is a masterpiece _in its genre,_ but the genre is still pretty niche.
If anything I think this far and away the most mainstream RPG... probably ever. I'd be hesitant to recommend Underrail or any of the games by Iron Tower. But this one should be safe as sand for a casual.
Excellent review but may I offer a counterpoint to the wokeness? At what point do you consider something too woke or transparent? I remember Pathfinder WoTR have a pivotal character change gender via magic and was married to a tall, buff half-orc woman. Both of which were pivotal to your character's decisions and contextualized your choices, such as being a demon or lich and annihilating them or angel or avata and saving them. I believe Irabeth had a questline in the penultimate map to the Deskari fight.
Lets take for example an RPG that was critiqued HEAVILY based on it's involvement of real-world history: Pillars of Eternity. Judging off your review of the game you, like me, thought it was rather mature in it's themes and adequately contextualized it's various cultures, religions, geopolitical conflicts, and diasporas. Yet it was critiqued by people from r pgcodex and a basket-weaving forum (you know the one) for including themes like colonization. Many on those forums argued it was a "white-man bad" game for highlighting the conflict between natives and settlers. Would a game like that be too woke or political in your estimation? How would Josh Sawyer and Obsidian even go about "fixing" that game to remove the woke elements without damaging it's narrative?
I'm just trying to gather what's the benchmark here for wokeness. Great review otherwise and I agree entirely with all the QoL and combat difficulty assessments, albeit, I do like the immersive sim aspect of the game even if it makes it far too easy for seasoned players of the genre.
Well first of all I never used the word "wokeness" or "woke" in this video or in any other video (that I remember). I tend to avoid this term like the plague. I think the minute this term is used... any chance we had of having a healthy conversation about the topic in question goes out the window.
Some people use this word to quickly label films, games, shows, brands, people and worst of all ideas as something that is "unequivocally bad and comes from people who have ideas and points of view who are not worth discussing, people without whom the world would be better a place. Therefore it's not worth talking to them",
Some others, at the sole mention of the word "woke" immediately dismiss the point being made as coming from someone who is inherently evil/racist/hateful and/or ignorant and therefore not worth talking to.
And well. Needless to say that this is... not a great plan, because we need to live with each other. No community is inherently bad but they all have bad actors. And focusing on making those bad actors powerless over the people they seek to exploit is the way to go in my opinion (but that's neither here, nor there).
As for the depiction of characters:
I've been playing games and reading books for 40ish years, enough to know that inclusion, diversity and representation are divisive buzzwords that started to get thrown around the year 2016 by a certain faction. A faction interested in spreading the message: "You have been marginalized and discriminated and we are the champions who acknowledge this and who will "give you" the opportunities you so richly deserve"
We've always had characters from all sexes, ethnicity and sexual orientations in games. Take Rosella from "Kings Quest IV, the Perils of Rosella" ( as far back as 1987): a female protagonist who solves every challenge of the game through sheer creativity and intelligence. She's never sexualized and she never uses her sexuality to get what she wants.
Or First Citizen Lynette from Fallout 2 (1998), the black female of Vault City.
Or Steve Cortez in Mass Effect 3(2013) a gay Latin American character, who is one of the best NPCs in that game.
No one (who's not a fringe lunatic) ever had a problem with any of these characters. The developers and publishers of these games games also never used any of these superficial traits in any of these characters as a (promotion) flag for everyone to see how inclusive they were being.
I suspect the creative process in these games never involved discussions along the lines of "we have to have a -insert here racial/sexual/ethnic tag- character" . And that was a good thing. In some of these new games you mention you can clearly tell that there are calculated efforts that revolve around the inclusion of this or that token "ehtnically or sexually diverse" character.
And in some case, you can really tell that the writers went through some pretty weird mental gymnastics to include these characters. And these efforts end up feeling like they were screwing the house around the light bulb. (Which, they wouldn't have to do if they came up with new IPs instead of constantly using well established IPs with well established characters)
And I believe this stems from a lines of thought that is just wrong:
And it goes like this: People who are gay/trans/black/native/female etc NEED to see these attributes in a character to be able to RELATE to them.
This is incorrect. This argument conflates relatability and representation. These are two different things. When I was a kid, EVERY kid I knew (including myself of course) wanted to be Bruce Lee. It was everyone's childhood hero... we were all Bruce Lee, and none of us were Asian. We even mocked the lame-ass Caucasian knock off that was David Carradine and his films. When we were teenagers we all wanted to be like Michael Jordan and most of us weren't black.
We all routed for Ripley in the OG Alien film and its sequel Aliens and we were not women.
A character being of X color or Y ethnicity or having A or B sexual orientation isn't the problem (it's never been the problem). The problem starts when a character is gay, black, trans, female or Lantin American because "there needs to be representation".
I gave Shadowrun Hong Kong a 10/10 in the story department. It's just fantastic. And almost every important character in that game is female. Two of your three most important companions are female. One of them is a black female dwarf, the other one is a brown female orc (the other one is a gay male orc btw). The fixer (an important figure in Shadowrun lore) is female, her main rival, the person making your life miserable in the game is also female, and of all the Yama Kings that could've invaded this world, they went for a Yama queen. And the person who digs up the information on the Yama queen is also female. But there's also your foster father who makes the ultimate sacrifice and your companions Racter and Gaichu who are competent and driven male characters.
The way I see it, this game is not trying to weave in its subtext some bullsh*t message about women beinf awesome and men being incompetent and the sources of every problem.
This is not the case for example In Pathfinder Kingmaker and Siege of Dragonspear. In those games, every male character is evil or incompetent. And the ones who aren't, voluntarily submit to a female authority. These games also feature the text-book structure of the feminist agenda that we see shows like the new Masters of the Universe or Obi Wan amongst many others.
And that is --> One of the two main characters (AT LEAST) HAS to be female. In a game in which the player can choose to be male, the only way to guarantee this is to make the main antagonist of the story female. But.. females CAN'T be villains, because they are good. So of course they pull out the, by now, trite plot twist of -->the main antagonist was never the REAL villain, the real villain was a straight white guy who had coerced/lied/manipulated the antagonist into doing evil deeds. And of course the female antagonist redeems herself by turning against the true villain.
Kingmaker -->Antagonist: Nyrissa -->Real Villain: The Lantern King -->End Result: She turns against him and sides with you becoming the most powerful companion in the party.
Siege of Dragonspear -->Antagonist: Caelar Argent-->Real Villain: Haphernan-->End Result: She turns against him and sides with you becoming the most powerful companion in the party.
So yes... a mostly female cast is not a problem. Using the mostly female cast for agenda purposes is very much a problem,
Shadowrun Hong Kong -->no problem
Kingmaker and Siege of Dragonspear-->problem.
As for real-word issues and their representation in videogames. This is also not inherently bad. In fact... it's a GOOD thing. It serves as a template to establish believable motivations for the characters involved in the going-ons of your fictional world. In Mass Effect lore for example, the Genophage: the sterilization of the Krogan by the Salarians, mirrors the practice that Spanish missionaries had with indigenous Bolivian populations to prevent them from spiraling out of controls. The Quarian-Geth conflict is (somewhat) a representation of the Palestine-Israel conflict. These are all interesting templates to build your story around, but they become irritating and preachy when they are used to insert the author's idea of who is the villain in particular situation in current day politics and, worst yet, to judge you as a player for maybe having a different opinion.
As of Pillars of Eternity, which you mention in your comment, I don't think the devs were judging me for my political or social opinions in that game.
Even in Pillars 2, despite the fact that there were some decisions pertaining the races and the sex of some characters that were clearly the product of discussions along the lines of "we need to include these many /such/such/such" , I didn't feel like the game was all hell bent on selling me its idea of who's the bad guy in a particular modern day conflict or situation.
(In Pillars 2. Of the four factions: exactly TWO of them have female leaders and male second-in-commands and TWO of them have male leaders and female second-in-commands. And in all case the females are strong willed, disagreeable, take-action, driven individuals and males are laid back, calculating, let's-wait-and-see types (the exception being the Huana)).
And the game does favor the Huana ending as the good ending... but there are some shades of grey with the Valians and the Rauataians. They aren't inherently evil or good, they just look after their own interests.
Though I admit it did break my balls that (Spoiler alert) by the end of the game, the Vailians want you to plant a bomb in the Royal Deadfire Company's arsenal and when you ask about potential casualties, they don't give two shits about it.
But even then... Who even are the Valians and the RDF in the real world?
On the other hand, in Baldur's Gate 3, when you arrive at Rivington there is a situation with some refugees who are invading the toy maker's house. This quest very clearly tries to establish a parallelism with the refugee situation that some countries around the world are experiencing these days and the game takes sides, it passes judgement on you as a player. It clearly considers siding with the refugees to be the good thing to do. And to make it even more obvious, they even make the toy maker a bad (or at least cowardly) guy who is making explosive toys that are killing people.
If the game hadn't had an agenda, they would've made a strong case for BOTH sides and they would've left the player to be the judge.
So as it happens with characters... Depicting real-world problems isn't the problem... the problem is using that depiction to...not even emit an opinion... but to pass judgement.
@@YeOldEntertainment
Thank you for that excellent and in-depth response! I will attempt to parse and respond to select portions with quotations and arrows bracketing out your quotes. Consider quotes not mentioned either things I agree with you on or things I can’t comment on.
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>>>“I never used the word "wokeness" or "woke" in this video or in any other video (that I remember).”
I apologize if this was a mischaracterization of your argument. That said, I always see this term used in discussions for particular cRPGs which attribute any perceived overcorrection or political bias of the author in games as far back as the ones I mentioned. I completely agree with your further comments on this term and needing more nuanced discussions. Admittedly, I could’ve done better when making my response to this video.
>>>”This is incorrect. This argument conflates relatability and representation.”
My contention is that I’ve seen these critiques since Fallout New Vegas had fruity scientists that were secretly “fascist paramilitary organization”. Or Veronica being a lesbian only companion who fits the strong-female trope. And therein lies my problem with said critiques. It’s too broad of a diagnosis especially when we move onto your other contentions on other games.
>>>”This is not the case for example In Pathfinder Kingmaker and Siege of Dragonspear. In those games, every male character is evil or incompetent….But.. females CAN'T be villains”
I reject this premise entirely in Kingmaker’s case. Nyrissa is textbook selfish and evil despite whatever optional content contextualizes her pathos. Sure, she suffered under the Lantern King. Sure, she’s recruitable and part of a secret ending. But nothing in the game outright justifies her manipulation of the River Kingdoms and the countless humanoid lives lost at her plan. The game doesn’t justify or smack you in the face if you Jaethal’s highly unethical breeding program. You know, the part where we can allow her to continue reproducing new daughters to body swap to? I fail to see where the game explicitly makes clear this or Nyrissa’s turncoat are both “pro-feminist” message.
The game makes clear their crimes and their punishment. The game never sides with her and more or less holds her accountable even if you meet the romance conditions. Secret endings do not override evil alignment or accountability.
>>>“Even in Pillars 2, despite the fact that there were some decisions pertaining the races and the sex of some characters that were clearly the product of discussions along the lines of "we need to include these many /such/such/such" “
My reading of Pillars II was that it was taking more from the colonization of India rather than the Americas from how rigid the caste system was. It presented both sides: the rigidity of the caste system made it more likely that the Huana at the bottom would seek opportunities for themselves and their children elsewhere. Even in places held by the Vailian Republics where they may be seen as lesser. Because what’s the alternative? Starve because you were born in the wrong caste? We see real-world cases of this happening to this day such as with many Middle Eastern nation-states. At the same time the Valian Republics are all too happy to exploit and plunder the natural resources of a native population with little-to-no-regard for cultural customs. It harkens to historical instances like British-India or even the Banana Republics.
I quite liked this dichotomy especially with the Pirates and the oddly Imperialist Japanese feeling Rauataians thrown in the mix for good variety.
>>>”Royal Deadfire Company's arsenal and when you ask about potential casualties, they don't give two shits about it.”
Many such cases in irl history. I still wouldn’t say it’s leaning towards one political ideology or another based off this and other comments you’ve made.
>>>”Who even are the Valians and the RDF in the real world”
Some mixture of Spaniards, British, or possibly the French if you consider the Hauna caribbean-themed. See the Haitian Revolution. That being said, I think it’s best they take from multiple sources and mix them so as to never make their sources explicitly clear. Wouldn’t want to blame an entire people in a fantasy game about killing god.
>>>"parallelism... refugee situation that some countries... it passes judgement on you as a player... strong case for both sides."
Hard disagree. As early as the Druid's Grove, we see a degree of both-siding with the tiefling children never being reprimanded by the adults of their refugee groups even when they have obviously and clearly stolen multiple items from wandering travelers. The game designers even placed the thiefling in front of the entrance to the Druid section of the map to display the hypocrisy of the Tieflings. To further cement the issue is the fact that if you confront the leader of the thieflings, their ringleader rats you out to the adults and the adults take their side over yours. Another instance occurs when another thiefling child attempts to rob one of Aradin's group members of his mother's locket. Arabella almost causes an ethnic cleansing of her own people by attempting to steal the Idol of Silvannus.
It both sides this refugee issue very early on as preparation for the latter refugee crisis at Rivington proper.
Not to mention BG3 is not the only instance of doing this. Games like Disco Elysium mention migrant conditions in a far more politically charged manner while games like the FFXIV MMO mentions refugee crisis being an issue in the main quest storyline. The latter game humanizes and favors the refugees as a once proud, noble people being unfairly misjudged and assaulted by others. It gets to the point where a woman is implied to have been sexually assaulted by the evil tribal monsters hanging around their encampment, which is directly the result of their poor living conditions and ostracization from civilization.
Could you argue that a Japanese game made from a very different world view was making a so-called political statement? Mind you the main story for this MMO was released 8 years ago at the height of the 2015 European migrant crisis.
Just like that game I don't believe BG3 was making some elaborate statement on the state of the world or which real-life position is morally good or bad. The toymaker’s side-quest is a plot hook that’s being read too deeply into.
Disco Elysium takes inspiration and depicts many real-world politics, some of them contemporary even. I don't think these topics and references should be off the table. But that game is brilliant and its writer is waaay above petty simplistic discussions about "who's the bad guy". The game NEVER tells you what's "the right thing to think". In fact you can play Harry however you wish and the game does not judge for it. Representation of real-world events and history isn't bad per se, it's bad when they are pushing an agenda, being preachy or judging the player.
As for the Valians, I am well aware that there have been episodes in human history in which some parties have acted like the Vailians did in that passage of the game I described. I just didn't like that the Vailians did such an evil thing, because they where MY horse in the race, because I'm always up for technological innovation and progress. I would've preferred if they hadn't gone straight out evil. It still think the game presents the Huana as the best ending but it also doesn't sh*t on the player for siding with the Vailians or the RDF.
As for Nyrissa well... hard disagree with you. This character is redeemed in the not-so-secret ending. (I only played the game once and that's the ending I got) So everything the game did to depict her as evil and all the atrocities are swept under the rug in the end and I think the game very much expects us to buy into this. I think this is very much deliberate as was the case with Reva in Obi Wan, Evileen in the new masters of the universe and Caelar Argent in Siege of Dragonspear. All of them were "evil" but "aaah poor little things, they were the victims of..." I understand your analysis but I think that her "being evil" turns out to be pure red herring. (By the way I didn't romance her, I wanted to burn down every companion, NPC, and the writers of that game. I detested it to no end. That side-quest about Amiri sticking up to the patriarchy of the barbarians is clumsily preachy and agenda-driven as is Valerie's quest.. The writing in that series (both games) is atrocious: teenarish and shallow don't begin to describe it in my opinion.)
@@YeOldEntertainment >>>”Representation of real-world events and history isn't bad per se, it's bad when they are pushing an agenda, being preachy or judging the player.”
Agreed on the first but on the second segment I would have to ask what would be the specific criterion. I’ve seen many critiques factor in inclusivity, progressiveness, and implications of authorial intent behind many true cRPG games over the years, and it would seem that the criterion for each complaint varies drastically. Or is overridden by new thresholds being reached. It reminds me of how particular researchers presented the “boiling frog” study as an analogy for sitcoms changing their opinion and tolerance level of people of color overtime. The claim indicated that showrunners would bring in, at first, some small token minority (usually African-American) within earlier eras of sitcom television and gauge the temperature of those who watched the show. Slowly, but surely marginalized minorities, who in these earlier periods of television would be seen as tools for propaganda, would be tolerated until the next trend of marginalized groups would be slowly initiated into the pool of shows.
At what point do we create a sustainable benchmark to critique what is and isn’t propagandist or ridden with faux political bias? We both agree that Disco Elysium has far more to say than modern games that treat political correctness as set-dressing, but I distinctly remember people having critical views toward its more “communist” leanings. As one could argue that the anarcho-communist cop route was far more favored by the author, and that by locking the ethno-nationalist, crypto-fascist cop route behind a parody of an afronationalist the author makes a firm stance. That he believes the former to be a real theory and the other was reactionary drivel. And, the author only made it appear to be a “nuanced” political thriller sort of game because people lacked media literacy to get his joke.
At what point do we disregard or regard said critiques? At what point are these critiques even helpful to the overall product?
>>>”I would've preferred if they hadn't gone straight out evil.”
I wholeheartedly disagree. I roleplayed a Valian as an imperialist and thought that the sacrifices of taming the barbarian natives to learn of a better way of life was the only way to progress the world forward. Afterall, the Valian model for governments was superior, or so my character thought. You have similar arguments online over the impact of colonization - from the brits to the romans.
I agree to disagree on the Nyrissa point as I remember almost falling for the romance option (as I think my character had a few of the prerequisites for it) but finding her overall background history contemptible and her lack of accountability horrid. So I killed her. In another playthrough I roleplayed as a more chaotic good human male who was more horny than he was sensible and got the secret ending. Still didn’t see how the game justified her actions. I assumed Owlcat had a propensity for writing “irredeemably evil female seducers” such as Camellia and that Nyrissa fit under this trope. The femme fatale trope.
@@YeOldEntertainment Forgot to add this to previous post but thank you for this in-depth chat! I wasn't expecting such a thorough rebuttal to my response and it's always great to have a reviewer of your caliber give very robust answers.
Even just the House of Hope and hearing Rapheal singing his own theme song is enough reason to play this game. No one should miss that, it is the best side quest ever, period. It is so absurdly good the rest of the game just can't compete and goes down after that.