Mikey I have found that for me the Townshend podiums made a big difference on my wooden suspended floor. I tried spikes, no spikes, spikes on rock slabs. The bass and soundstage and instrument placement all improved. Not sure what your results on concrete will be but glad you are doing some tests.
This should be an interesting comparison. I have my listening room/office on the top/4th floor of a townhome connected to other townhomes on each side. My listening room has hardwood floors on joists. I had Isoacoustics Gaia I (which you should also compare for a 3 way comparison) on my Magico A3s. I heard a lot of good things about the Townshend Seismic Podiums and decided to give them a try. I removed the Gaia I pods and placed my Magicos on the Townshend Podiums. A definite improvement. Things tightened up. For me the Podiums are a keeper. Now the question is will the Townshend bars yield improvements under my pair of REL T/9i subs? Currently I have my RELs on SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System feet. I don’t really want coupling of my subs to the floor because when I had the RELs standing directly in contact with the floor the bass was boomy and shook the house. The SVS system solved that. The question is will the Townshend bars be better?
@@OCDHIFiGuy I would have to go look. But they have aluminum legs which screw into the bottom of the cabinet. I think there are thin rubber-ish pads on the bottom of those legs and they couple tremendous with the hardwood floor upon which they stand. The result it terrible. My initial solution while not elegant in appearance, but super elegant in terms of cost (you can buy them in bulk on eBay), was to put rubber hockey pucks underneath each of the REL feet. That raised the height by only the thickness of the hockey puck but it eliminated the coupling with the floor and the resulting boominess. But now they are on the SVS system feet, which are also good and look better. So the question would be which is better for RELs on hardwood: rubber game quality hockey pucks vs the SVS system feet vs Townshend bars (less expense than the Podiums and recommended for subs by Townshend)?
@@RJ_Chicago Ever consider the possibility it could be that you moved the sub an extra 1.5 inches away from the floor ? Pretty good chance. Rubber decouples.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Hi Mike, there is minimal and very thin rubberish material on the bottom of the REL legs. I think it is there mainly so you don’t scratch your floor. I think the resolution of the boominess from the decoupling of the RELs from the wood flooring is by the rubber puck. I don’t think it is the distance of the baffle to the floor in this case. The puck is at most 1 inch thick. It might be slightly less. I didn’t measure it. But I don’t think it’s the distance bc the SVS feet are a little shorter than the REL legs and bring the sub a little closer to the floor than the stock legs. But they also decouple. So I think it’s the rubber material of the puck and the SVS feet in this case. Decoupling of the subs works for me in my case as there is no flabby boominess. Bass is tight and detailed. This is what I also get from the low end of the Magico A3s on the Townshend Podiums.
Townshend converts vibration to heat energy as you said. You can find measurements of their platforms on CZcams. Conversion to heat seems to work very efficiently if you look at the measurements…
To isolate effectively the system resonance needs to be about 3Hz or below to work correctly, like the Townshend seismic sink i.e. slow motion "wobbly". My money is on the sprung platform, it would be interesting to find out the resonant frequency of them. I still use a sound organization glass and metal 5 tier rack on spikes for my gear, that's actually technically more like the item on the left. Good, interesting stuff all the same.
The Townshends don't drain anything out of the speakers,they just decouple them from the floor. The springs are effectively mechanical filters eliminating external vibration from about 3hz up,and are particularly effective on suspended wooden floors. To additionally drain energy from the speaker-depending on it's cabinet design, I've had great results using Black Ravioli feet between the speakers and the Townshend podiums. In my experience the Townshends are taking some of the room out of the equation-and keeping my downstairs neighbours happier-always a plus! Very interested to see how things go with a concrete floor. Great to see you addressing this issue Mikey,nobody else seems to have gone this far with any level of understanding of what the different factors involved are. Cheers from Sunny Scotland.
LOL, Nope.. I contacted Mark about set up and I simply did not get a good vibe from him and I know him from a while back. We used to show together with Lampizator. I traded 3 power cords for the DX Reference back right before that piece won Stereophile A rated component. He knows I think high price computers are bullshit and he talks to me like a dumb ass rather than helping me to understand why they cost what they do. I decided Fuck Antipodes and the horse they rode in on, Im not giving them any airtime on my channel, so I sold it without even listening to it. I back Playback Designs streamers due to them having glass fiber optic connections which mate with my PBD DAC for the best sonic. Mark cant do that. I am not a reviewer nor do I get paid to review so I dont review anything I dont feel like reviewing. This fell into that category. If Antipodes is great, then Im happy for them. Ill choose another brand. Taiko if Im going retarded...
@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks for the reply. I am not an Antipodes fan. Like you I just can’t fathom how they get to those prices. Looking at their forums they seem to have quality issues as well. At least Taiko really seem to have a relationship with their customers that is about more than extracting cash. But as you have exposed many times there is a hifi press that builds these things up way beyond their actual performance. I have built my own server for a fraction of the cost. Would just have been interested to hear how the Antipodes sounded. By the way, being a Brit I would put my Linn Organik DSM up against your Playback Designs any day, I use mine with a fibre Ethernet connection!!! Whatever, I love the channel!! You’re a fine chap as we Brits would say 😂
@@UKTyke yeah, that's because they are regular computers made in Taiwan. The DX Refs I sold are just now starting to shit the bed 8 or 10 years later. They are all too happy to upsell your ass as a solution. Joke is on the buyers. Have a Banger and Mash & some crisps for me my friend !
It would be nice to have an objective measurement. You could use your phone which has an accelerometer built in to measure these things. I've done it to meature turntables. It would be helpful to have data not just a subjective this is better than that.
Sure thing... When was the last time you heard a tube that measured horribly but sounded glorious, and on the flipside, Class D that measured PERFECT but sounded devoid of soul ? Then how many "experts" have you heard sing about something being so great that was not? Right... so this channel is for people that want to use my ears and sense of music to give them my opinion on one thing or another. In the end its not about the numbers, its about the sound. Id postulate we could inject noise into a rig and make it sound better than one without noise at all. Lets get real ... Numbers only tell the science. They dont indicate the humanity.
From what I've read speakers should be placed on spikes and be very rigid, while Hifi-components and subwoofers sounds the best with rubber feet. Let's see what these upcoming tests will show!
Years ago at a Linn dealer event in town, Linn demonstrated how the speaker needs to essentially be on spiked feet to keep it from moving even a millimeter, the idea being that even a tiny amount of motion blurs the image, the tweeter being most affected since its throw distance is short. I've heard the seismic sinks on some large speakers on a carpeted concrete floor but had no frame of reference to judge efficacy one way or another. But just lightly touching the speaker put it into motion and discussion on the design of them didn't make sense to me as the rep said something to the effect that an ideal situation would be for the entire floor of the room to be isolated in this fashion. So did he mean the listener should be isolated with everything else in the room?
@@mortlach186 Recording Studios tend to use secondary flooring and foundation springs along with sound deadening materials so I suppose what's 'sauce for the goose' as they say. The best results I've gotten is with gear's bottom plate supported with brass cones and carbon fibre discs on thick glass tiers and speakers on brass spikes/carbon fibre discs on our hardwood flooring. The combination of drain/isolate gives a clean, detailed sound with good slam and attack when I wanna crank it. Love the Mortlach 18 yo handle by the way...though at £170, it's a hella expensive tipple!
Gravity is a theory Mike things fall because they are heavy. We have never been in space and as for planets just lights in the sky. Sorry mike but i have to correct you on this!
Mikey I have found that for me the Townshend podiums made a big difference on my wooden suspended floor. I tried spikes, no spikes, spikes on rock slabs. The bass and soundstage and instrument placement all improved. Not sure what your results on concrete will be but glad you are doing some tests.
Thanks , what you state makes sense to me.
Hi. Mikey,,thanks for your educational content, I'm really learning alot.please crank out more of these videos 📹 👌
You bet John..
This should be an interesting comparison. I have my listening room/office on the top/4th floor of a townhome connected to other townhomes on each side. My listening room has hardwood floors on joists. I had Isoacoustics Gaia I (which you should also compare for a 3 way comparison) on my Magico A3s. I heard a lot of good things about the Townshend Seismic Podiums and decided to give them a try. I removed the Gaia I pods and placed my Magicos on the Townshend Podiums. A definite improvement. Things tightened up. For me the Podiums are a keeper. Now the question is will the Townshend bars yield improvements under my pair of REL T/9i subs? Currently I have my RELs on SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System feet. I don’t really want coupling of my subs to the floor because when I had the RELs standing directly in contact with the floor the bass was boomy and shook the house. The SVS system solved that. The question is will the Townshend bars be better?
Did the RELs have rubber feet ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy I would have to go look. But they have aluminum legs which screw into the bottom of the cabinet. I think there are thin rubber-ish pads on the bottom of those legs and they couple tremendous with the hardwood floor upon which they stand. The result it terrible. My initial solution while not elegant in appearance, but super elegant in terms of cost (you can buy them in bulk on eBay), was to put rubber hockey pucks underneath each of the REL feet. That raised the height by only the thickness of the hockey puck but it eliminated the coupling with the floor and the resulting boominess. But now they are on the SVS system feet, which are also good and look better. So the question would be which is better for RELs on hardwood: rubber game quality hockey pucks vs the SVS system feet vs Townshend bars (less expense than the Podiums and recommended for subs by Townshend)?
@@RJ_Chicago Ever consider the possibility it could be that you moved the sub an extra 1.5 inches away from the floor ? Pretty good chance. Rubber decouples.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Hi Mike, there is minimal and very thin rubberish material on the bottom of the REL legs. I think it is there mainly so you don’t scratch your floor. I think the resolution of the boominess from the decoupling of the RELs from the wood flooring is by the rubber puck. I don’t think it is the distance of the baffle to the floor in this case. The puck is at most 1 inch thick. It might be slightly less. I didn’t measure it. But I don’t think it’s the distance bc the SVS feet are a little shorter than the REL legs and bring the sub a little closer to the floor than the stock legs. But they also decouple. So I think it’s the rubber material of the puck and the SVS feet in this case. Decoupling of the subs works for me in my case as there is no flabby boominess. Bass is tight and detailed. This is what I also get from the low end of the Magico A3s on the Townshend Podiums.
@@RJ_Chicago you have SVS feet on top of pucks ? Thats "de coupled" although by science, its coupled inefficiently on purpose. Lets see what happens !
Amazing 👍
Rock on Sam !
Townshend converts vibration to heat energy as you said. You can find measurements of their platforms on CZcams. Conversion to heat seems to work very efficiently if you look at the measurements…
Cup with ball like Naim Fraim would be an interesting comparison too.
You should also add a "cup with ball" type of device to the comparison. Like the Symposium Rollerblocks.
Great idea.
Did you complete this test yet Mike?
I like the brass way rigid is key
I agree.
To isolate effectively the system resonance needs to be about 3Hz or below to work correctly, like the Townshend seismic sink i.e. slow motion "wobbly". My money is on the sprung platform, it would be interesting to find out the resonant frequency of them. I still use a sound organization glass and metal 5 tier rack on spikes for my gear, that's actually technically more like the item on the left. Good, interesting stuff all the same.
I prefer to let a RTA test on the room tell the story, Spec means nothing compared to results, if you know what I mean . ;-)
The Townshends don't drain anything out of the speakers,they just decouple them from the floor. The springs are effectively mechanical filters eliminating external vibration from about 3hz up,and are particularly effective on suspended wooden floors.
To additionally drain energy from the speaker-depending on it's cabinet design, I've had great results using Black Ravioli feet between the speakers and the Townshend podiums. In my experience the Townshends are taking some of the room out of the equation-and keeping my downstairs neighbours happier-always a plus! Very interested to see how things go with a concrete floor. Great to see you addressing this issue Mikey,nobody else seems to have gone this far with any level of understanding of what the different factors involved are. Cheers from Sunny Scotland.
Cheers Sir Wilson !!
Hmmm...are u getting into drones now????I've never seen these models before...how high can they go and for how long brother Mikey???
Well, if we blast off with a little Lyserge, perhaps the rest of our lives ... ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy If we're lucky! Ha,ha
So you are bot going to post the conclusions? Also the one on the left seems to be standing on 3 legs instead of 4?
Whatever happened to the Antipodes server that was big news a couple of months ago? Did they buy you off?
LOL, Nope.. I contacted Mark about set up and I simply did not get a good vibe from him and I know him from a while back. We used to show together with Lampizator. I traded 3 power cords for the DX Reference back right before that piece won Stereophile A rated component. He knows I think high price computers are bullshit and he talks to me like a dumb ass rather than helping me to understand why they cost what they do. I decided Fuck Antipodes and the horse they rode in on, Im not giving them any airtime on my channel, so I sold it without even listening to it. I back Playback Designs streamers due to them having glass fiber optic connections which mate with my PBD DAC for the best sonic. Mark cant do that. I am not a reviewer nor do I get paid to review so I dont review anything I dont feel like reviewing. This fell into that category. If Antipodes is great, then Im happy for them. Ill choose another brand. Taiko if Im going retarded...
@@OCDHIFiGuy Thanks for the reply. I am not an Antipodes fan. Like you I just can’t fathom how they get to those prices. Looking at their forums they seem to have quality issues as well.
At least Taiko really seem to have a relationship with their customers that is about more than extracting cash. But as you have exposed many times there is a hifi press that builds these things up way beyond their actual performance.
I have built my own server for a fraction of the cost. Would just have been interested to hear how the Antipodes sounded. By the way, being a Brit I would put my Linn Organik DSM up against your Playback Designs any day, I use mine with a fibre Ethernet connection!!!
Whatever, I love the channel!! You’re a fine chap as we Brits would say 😂
@@UKTyke yeah, that's because they are regular computers made in Taiwan. The DX Refs I sold are just now starting to shit the bed 8 or 10 years later. They are all too happy to upsell your ass as a solution. Joke is on the buyers. Have a Banger and Mash & some crisps for me my friend !
More coffee! Good morning
Good Morning John Wan !!
It would be nice to have an objective measurement. You could use your phone which has an accelerometer built in to measure these things. I've done it to meature turntables. It would be helpful to have data not just a subjective this is better than that.
Sure thing... When was the last time you heard a tube that measured horribly but sounded glorious, and on the flipside, Class D that measured PERFECT but sounded devoid of soul ? Then how many "experts" have you heard sing about something being so great that was not? Right... so this channel is for people that want to use my ears and sense of music to give them my opinion on one thing or another. In the end its not about the numbers, its about the sound. Id postulate we could inject noise into a rig and make it sound better than one without noise at all. Lets get real ... Numbers only tell the science. They dont indicate the humanity.
My wife just informed me that there are actually 3 different types of vibrations...
She nailed it. 🔨👷♀️
LOL, oh no you didn't..... You just mentioned the best vibration isolator in the world... (not YOUR wife per se)
From what I've read speakers should be placed on spikes and be very rigid, while Hifi-components and subwoofers sounds the best with rubber feet.
Let's see what these upcoming tests will show!
My experiments show that rubber deadens high frequency, and stiff materials preserve it ... But lets see !!
I’m no scientist, but downwards ’coupling’ whilst upwards ‘isolating’ seems the most logical option ✌🏻
I would agree.
Years ago at a Linn dealer event in town, Linn demonstrated how the speaker needs to essentially be on spiked feet to keep it from moving even a millimeter, the idea being that even a tiny amount of motion blurs the image, the tweeter being most affected since its throw distance is short. I've heard the seismic sinks on some large speakers on a carpeted concrete floor but had no frame of reference to judge efficacy one way or another. But just lightly touching the speaker put it into motion and discussion on the design of them didn't make sense to me as the rep said something to the effect that an ideal situation would be for the entire floor of the room to be isolated in this fashion. So did he mean the listener should be isolated with everything else in the room?
@@mortlach186 Recording Studios tend to use secondary flooring and foundation springs along with sound deadening materials so I suppose what's 'sauce for the goose' as they say. The best results I've gotten is with gear's bottom plate supported with brass cones and carbon fibre discs on thick glass tiers and speakers on brass spikes/carbon fibre discs on our hardwood flooring. The combination of drain/isolate gives a clean, detailed sound with good slam and attack when I wanna crank it. Love the Mortlach 18 yo handle by the way...though at £170, it's a hella expensive tipple!
3D sound test- Rod Mightys new release on youtube- Wake Up Neo 1
Ill check it if its on Tidal or Quobuz
@@OCDHIFiGuy Its just on utube I think
@@freeradical431 Not sure how to play YT on my rig
RIP Max Townshend, lost a great audio technologist.
Isolation can only exist in the absence of matter.
Tommy takes it to 11 !!! YES !!!
Gravity Kills
So does yoga.
@@alistairwilson5344 I call Yoga “Yogurt” to piss off girls
“Love Kills” (Freddie Mercury, 1984) 👊🏼
@@yulaswift2439 "Love Stinks" (J.Geils Band, 1980)
@@alistairwilson5344 So does Life
mmm i prefer the townshend
Have you had both to listen to ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy nop I just like Townshend design more.
@@net_news Well there it is .. ;-) Townshend for you !
Gravity is a theory Mike things fall because they are heavy. We have never been in space and as for planets just lights in the sky. Sorry mike but i have to correct you on this!
I have most certainly been to space and I had zero "weight" there. Only moving mass...
@@OCDHIFiGuy k