Ep 16 - Kauri vs Fender Acoustasonic Wiring - Building a Guitar from 42,000 Year Old Wood
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
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In this episode, Ben takes apart a donor Fender to supply the new Kauri with the electronics. He goes into great detail about how the guitar was built.
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:05 Beginning to take the donor guitar apart
4:53 Let us discuss Piezo.
8:41 Revealing the wiring and a PCB board
9:39 To begin - taking the battery off
10:12 The transducer and the pickup are both soldered to the PCB board
10:50 Beginning to carefully take out all the bits and pieces revealing all the secrets
19:07 We are left with an empty body - Ben gives his opinion on all things Fender
23:04 Ben is now having a Crisis. Higher prices or lower standards - that is the question!
Conclusion
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Ben's camera setup includes: the Blackmagic ATEM Mini Pro, Prime Cameras (Front facing and over the bench) Canon EOS 250D, suspended from the ceiling (bench side) Canon EOS 90D, and on the movable tripod a Canon M6 Mark II
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I’m an IT Professional working for a multi-national FMCG Company for 30 years. I would love to have had the balls to build guitars for a living. You have the best job in the world when you are in your workshop being that luthier you always wanted to be. Never give that up.
Find someone to run the day to day at Crimson and ben just do your custom pieces of art. Every Guitar builder wants to see their guitars used, but Ben's are not only functional but also Beautiful and needs to be on display when not used.
Oh man, that PCB board coming out gave me anxiety memories of going for the broken heart in the game “Operation”…. BUUUZZZZ! SOB!
Ya, don’t ever stop building guitars, Ben! If you need to take a break, do that. Just come back! Your passion and attention to detail in guitar building is inspiring.
The under bridge transducer is to pick up top noises. I believe for the percussive modern acoustic player.
Exactly! Brian, the designer, realized that when you tapped the top it "sounded like a cajon" so ran with the idea and put that contact pickup right there. It's for slapping the top with you hands or thumb the way Spanish flamenco guitarists do. You can also blend it with Fishman system in one of the settings. It has no standard piezo. Just the proprietary Fishman system designed just for it (With that contact strip under the bridge saddle.), that under the top vibration pickup, and the noiseless Tim Shaw designed humbucker style electric pickup.
You got it
"Percussive modern acoustic player". Is that a euphemism for Ed Sheeran wannabe?
@BoojayDeeth
Nah "Prodigy" types, and I mean that as a pejorative.
The types that use a chord a couple of hammer ons, then they just have a one arm seizure, so people can go nuts.
@@BoojayDeeth More like Mike Dawes, methinks. There are LOOOOTS of young players getting into this modern style. It's awesome. :)
Ben? Over the years, you've become kind of a role model for me. Not trying to symp here or so. Your approach on creativity and eye for detail is very similar to mine. In one of your clips you stated something about, that you were diagnosed with ADHD, if I remember correctly (if not, sorry). Last year I was (finally, after a decade long journey) diagnosed with ADHD, too. And what I've learned is, that our brains are so unique in their ability to see and approach these creative things. But there is a big difference between us. Additionally to my ADHD, I was diagnosed with PTSD and chronic depressions. That makes it hard, to believe in me and besides doing things I love (creativity), I'd rather don't, because I'm scared to mess up and be disappointed in myself again. But since years, when I want to be creative, I watch your videos, what calms me down and I just do the things. Somehow your overthinking and talking about it, gives me the confidence to accept my own mess in my head and "just do it!".
So, whatever you decide, how to approach your business in the future, is completely okay. If you need to make a change to survive, that's completely reasonable and I'm supporting that idea (even if it's just in my head, so there's not much to win for you... but still...).
But, and there is a big but in the room. You will not change. You will still be you, making videos about what your doing, holding hour-long monologues about that and giving at least one person his confidence to his own approach on live. You're just awesome (ups... now I'm symping... sorry 😅)
And sorry for my long monologue. I somehow needed to express myself (in a language which is not my mother's tongue. I hope it's understandable [my brain farts and also my lack of language skills..])
A significant fraction of people in positions involving extensive attention to detail are autistic/ADHD ... most famously computer programmers, but also artists and craftsmen.
the black box is a Fishman Tap Body Sensor from their Powertap Infinity Pickup system. Just a transducer for percussive sound really
As an avid consumer of your content, I would suggest, humbly, that you continue on your current high end creations and steer clear of mass produced items. As an artist, with a touch of perfectionist, it may be detrimental to your being to have to make 'that is good enough' decisions and not necessarily be happy with what you are putting out the door.
Stick to your strong points and elevate those through luthier classes and creating stunning musical art pieces. It is the way!
Theres another side of it entirely i think you are missing, another side of ben that is the entrepreneur, the innovator amd manufacturer.
There is a great art to that itself, he is greatly enamoured by the electronic design of guitars despite him somewhat if an electronical novice.
Combining qulaity with
F-NO! Don't quit. We do it because we love it. Love the show. God speed.
Your final thought is great. I’ve been lucky to be at Crimson and I’ve seen the familiar spirit in the place, and the seek for perfection in the little details. Don’t change that! 😊
Keep doing what you do best. Build beautiful guitars and inspire people to do the same. The school looks incredible, your tools are top end, so just keep to what you know. And keep the videos going. They are inspirational.
Please, please, keep building the things you build, the way that you build them. You're responsible for my growing collection of old tools, and the best instruments I've ever built.
The reason that Crimson Guitars exist is your utter chase for perfection don't change your own perspective just because you see how the other ones do it.
If your company can survive on making dare I say beautiful pieces of art go for It!
Hey Ben i have been a huge fan for years watching you build these guitars and you work is the reason i want to build guitars, also i am saving up to buy a crimson guitar eventually so please do not change how you do what you do
The reputation of all Crimson Guitars’ ventures is dependent you you, Ben Crowe, building no compromise guitars, and being transparent about when you make mistakes and how you rectify these rare mistakes. Think of them as essential marketing activity. If you want a mass market guitar brand then keep it at arms length. You design and manage quality control. Oversee the quality, but don’t touch them with a tool yourself. Designed by Crimson guitars or designed by Ben Crowe. You can then design in the compromises you cannot/should not make on your own projects.
Do what you love.❤
I've been working with wood as a hobby since I was a kid helping my dad do odd jobs here and there, 40 odd years ago. Expanding this hobby into making and restoring furniture. Watching your videos gave me confidence to take that and mix it with the passion for guitars I now share with my son and try my hand at building my own guitars. Production guitars can be amazing, but rarely built with the passion, skill and attention to detail you and your team constantly show. Watching honest builds, with mistakes and all is refreshing and reminds us we all make silly mistakes and that we shouldn't be put off giving it a go. Thank you and keep up the excellent content.
I feel very much as you do. There is always something to do better.
But, Crimson Guitars is what you have made it. It's an awesome place with perfect tools and Guitars.
Absolutely just do what you do. For the reasons you do it.
You may just be the last craftsperson holding to such a high standard. Everything is about ' to spec" in today's world. Cutting corners is the norm.
You make money enough so stay true to yourself.
I got to say Thankyou in person for your teaching videos that basically changed my life. You gave me a trade in being a guitar tech. All my reviews are 5 star. I think like you, perfection. But I owe my knowledge to you.
I refuse to work for any business. But, I'd work for you if I ever changed my mind.
Being the best is worth so much more than money. Pride in what you do is everything.
Dear Ben, it’s a very though world for perfectionists. And yet, because of this world, perfection is the only way. Keep rolling, Master Luthier, you are great!
You, sir, are the reason I have hope for the appreciation and revival of the guitar. You are at the top of your field. What excites me is the idea of the person you inspire to pick up the torch from you and expand the horizons you have created. Many can play, but few can inspire. Personally, probably selfishly, I would hope that you do not mass produce Crimson Guitars. There is a mystic I have for your guitars that would be lost if I saw a wall of them at every Guitar Center or Sam Ash I walked into. I have a bucket list of guitars and a Crimson Guitar is on that list because of the quality, care, and love that goes into making it.
You have a very rare level of passion, one that just blows my mind with the attention to detail, obsession over quality and simply pure love for what you do. Been following you from the very beggining of the channel, as Crimson was being slowly built and was growing rapidly - all of that revolving around that one thing: love for guitar building. And that very thing is the most precious element that no other company I know have. That itself is the single most important reason people choose Crimson to build their instrument! It is not just about having an awesome piece of musical equipment, but also about knowing that it is as good as it gets because you've gone not a single extra mile but a hundred of them with a wide smile on your face!
Going the mass prod way would make you more money. But would it make you happier or Crimson better? I feel like it would make you both loose the bit of soul that is so priceless for the reasons above. Don't change, be yourself and do what you do, because your dang good at it and it makes both you and your customers happy! ;)
At 9:55
Perfect application for some Monofilament fishing line to remove the adhesive. They use use this technique a lot for removing badges and nameplates and such from automotive painted surfaces. Being the Monofilament is plastic, you can't scratch the surfaces when removing the adhesive.
Works Very Well! 👍
Looking forward to the Finished Product!
Great Work! 👍
Mike in San Diego. 🌞🎸🚀🖖
Ben, you're a craftsman. You've built up a successful business (or two). Keep doing what you need to to keep the doors open, but also what brings you joy.
Times like these are an opportunity to take stock of where and who you are and refine things. I suspect you won't be satisfied with "lowering your standards", so maybe for your own time at the workbench, spend it on the high visibility, top class projects that give the brand it's reputation for quality and boldness (like the kauri build or the bog oak river build or complication, etc). And let us watch you do your thing now and then, so we can enjoy watching a master craftsman at work. Maybe do a few unfilmed projects also, see if you enjoy working without the audience pressure.
In any case, I want to thank you for your videos and continued inspiration you provide for the whole guitar-building industry, particularly us amateur wannabe builders who have learnt that we can do it by watching you, getting tips and tricks and seeing the process "unmystified".
I have one of your cigar box guitars and the finish on it is perfect. My partner bought it for me as a birthday present, so I'm not sure how much it cost, but I have a general idea. I fully support sticking to high-end, maximum quality products. Anything less is a quagmire of competition, and will be *very* difficult to survive in. Love your work Ben. Keep up the great work!
Ben, you're not just a guitar builder who started a business like Fender or Gibson.. You're an artist. There is a difference.. Some people are more commercial and cut corners in order to make more money. But I think this is not why you're doing this job. You love it so much that you're not willing to cut corners. That's why you're saying "perfection in everything", right? You're not just making guitars.. You're making pieces of art. Naturally you want every part of it as good as you can make it, because you deeply care about that sort of stuff.. I have this myself as well and it's sometimes caused conflict with colleagues in software development who just want to get the job done, while I want to make something beautiful that the customer can always be happy with. So there is nothing wrong with wanting to do a good job. In fact I admire you for it.
Ohhh and I would absolutely love more in-depth guitar building lesson videos.. For instance, I wondered about that piezo pickup inside the body and underneath the bridge.. So I went and did some research and found a difference between piezo pickups and under saddle pickups.. What's the difference? I'm building a guitar with an original floyd rose trem and I'm designing some electronics for it as well.. So I was wondering if I could also put a piezo pickup under the tremolo, if I cut a small groove in the top for it.. I found a lot about acoustic guitars when searching for piezo pickups. Would they only work on hollow body guitars? Anyway, when I've completely recovered from this damn burnout and I have some time and money, I'm definitely coming to visit for a guitar building course. So yeah, more building lessons would be awesome!
I'm a hobbyist woodworker, with a family history of joiners and have been a business analyst for many years after a technical career. I have worked with many people in all types of businesses. They all have a passion for what they do and a willingness to succeed. Each of them came to the same crossroad that you are now faced with, do I make more money, secure my future, make my mark in the industry or do I stay true to why I love my work and what I produce, they are seen as two separate paths. There are always options to satisfy both needs. Passion and purpose are the key, if you are clear on them, you will always win.
I would love online courses. I know these videos are basically that, and you give them away for free but you also have so much content online that dedicated reference material would be handy. But please never stop building. Your enthusiasm is infectious and great to watch.
We have tried to put videos in some sort of order in various playlists. We need to take some time and update it all. Thanks for the feedback.
Ben, this was a fascinating episode. I really appreciated the tear down
I’ve generally found Fenders to be pretty decent, but totally understand what you found there.
I don’t think you should give up what you’re doing - you put your heart and soul into those guitars.
As for the mass production side of things, I’m really not sure what the answer is - you could try a short run and see how it goes? I guess it wouldn’t be cheap but may pay off in the long run. I really like the mat, open pore finish too, and I’m sure that would be an absolute winner.
Yes, always fun to watch your videos. Think Acoustic! Would love to see you branch out into that.
Fascinating. What do you want, Ben? That’s what made the company successful. You, so far, have been wildly successful.
If I were you, I would just keep doing what you’ve got going on. Keep the prices reasonable for both you and the customer, figure where you can cut those non-essential corners and just keep on keeping on.
you are an artist sir so stay true to yourself and please don't cheapen the good name and good work you have all put in
The build videos are the best thing, I value the creative outlet. Do what you need to do to enable that. Look up process engineering to understand what fender are doing.
On a side note, I want to see what you can do with an acoustic build. Kauri is a pretty bright top wood, maybe make a dome toped selmer inspired thing. Would sound crazy loud!
Hey Ben! I think concerning the mass production you could consider a quality similar to the Wilkinson guitar kits. They are affordable, while also from my own experience high quality without many (to any) cut corners. Creating guitars to a similar standard and selling them fully built would produce high quality guitars at a fairly low cost, as well as having the capability to be easily upgraded in the future by more hardcore enthusiasts.
Great episode. I really enjoyed that.
Full on Fender autopsy with my Saturday morning coffee. Better still, I got to see the body parts removed to use for another guitar. I need to read Frankenstein again.
I can’t help thinking that I would love to see a full range of Crimson production guitars to choose from. It would be great to see Crimson style SGs and LPs and other models available on the website.
Always strive for what you want Ben, that is what makes you great!!! Don't take your eye off a world dominated Crimson Kingdom. Let that dream fuel your creative builds. Take your next step and make a line of custom guitars at Triple the cost. You will figure out the demand you can fill at that price point and always be learning about how to setup assembly lines, become more efficient, how to differentiate your product with growth towards your goal. Once you figure that step out you can look at larger scale or different models or custom tools or more classes. Never sacrifice your dreams of the future, but as you are doing, you must make sure the path you are on can carry you and your team. The path only needs to be in the general direction of your ultimate dream, it does not need to get you there tomorrow.
Great video. I’m a former student, and I’m loving the guitar I made at Crimson Guitars.
Hi Ben, I total agree with your philosophy of how to build guitars ! I am an acoustic guitar builder mainly doing Steel strings but have been known to make classical and violins too ! I too am a perfectionist which I feel as a hand builder is possible an unachievable goal ? I build because I love the process and and just love doing a shellac french polish finish. I could never charge what it actually costs in hours to complete an instrument. I make a small profit and each build funds the next project and that suits me and the customer is getting a bargain priced high quality instrument. I'll never be a millionaire ! but I have the privilege to be making a truly hand made guitar fully from wood...no plastic is involved in the builds.I say stay as you are, keep doing what you are doing and continue to be unique in this ever short cut taking,
cost cutting and cheapening business. Individuality is something to protect and allowed to continue to florish !! keep up the good work and thank you for your videos and the fine tools you manufacture !
Kind Regards, Midge.
I was the finishing sprayer for fender acoustasonic. The company that they use is Simtex urethane. One coat all around the guitar, three more on the face. It gets leveled, printed, and then two more coats on the face for finishing. No wet sanding or buffing.
I feel you Ben! I know the dilemma. But you went much further than I had the perseverance for. Your perfectionism and the inability to prioritize efficiency and postpone or give up less important or pressing matters are what makes your signature as a luthier in the custom field. Make it a brand, you already use it to market your business. Go deeper with it, have the others do the things you suck at and do what you excel at.
Also, if you yourself remain to be making the super high end guitars we all know and love to see being built, while the staff gets to do the mass production of a certain range.
What you can do every once in a while, is let one of the mass production staff, join in on you making a guitar with them and their input, i.e. the Crimson Crew Choice.
Taking a mass/kit production mold, but with wood and elements and finish of staff choice.
Kindof how, some whisky distilleries have their mass production, but also keep doing their limited editions.
Whatever you do Ben, i, for one, would love to see you keep doing what you're doing, learning, practising, and making beautiful unicorns of guitar goodness :)
Ben, i think you should get a Fylde guitar for the museum and luthiers tear down! Maybe even speak to Roger...sure with his wealth of experience he could help a young man like yourself find the correct balance to run a long standing wolrd renowned business.
I own 2 and they're absolutely fantastic instruments. The price point and attention to detail are in sync from my point of view as a customer.
I wish you all the luck in the world, your work is excellent and i love the content.
Ben: I've just listened to your ending soliloquy. I suggest, as long as YOU are making the financial living you want, you're ENJOYING what you're currently doing, your business is on a sound financial footing and you have both happy employees & customers... DON'T go chasing the pack!!!
I abhore the ridiculous prices of the "popular" brands!!! I could never afford one of your Crimson-built masterpieces, but from what I see, I consider any of those to be enormously more desirable than "... a '60s P-bass".... You're doing great, informing pros and weekend hacks like me, how to take self-building / maintenance to the best level... keep up the excellent work mate, best wishes, Mark.
Ben, you are a cut above...never compromise your integrity.
Very insightful video. Just my opinion, you offer a very premium product and you hold everything you put out to a very high standard. And that’s what you’re great at. Stick with that. You won’t be happy with a product you put out with corners cut.
Hi Ben;
the brass plate under the string holes is to ground out all the strings. That allows the bridge to be left ungrounded. At least that's my thinking, because that is the way I have gounded a guitar that I made, however; I only grounded one string, because the bridge being metal grounded the rest of the strings.
Yes, I am having fun!
I think the chunky foam on the transducer is to make it less sensitive, so it doesn't pick up light sounds. On CBGs they douse the piezo in hot glue for the same reason
I understand your struggle Ben! I'm an artist/producer myself, and calling a project 'finished' is the hardest part of the process!
For you, maybe an idea could be to do a Hybrid; keep doing what you love doing, put in the detail and the effort the project deserves! At the same time, you could bring back the uncut kit guitars, trusting in the knowledge of the customer to put in the hard and detailed work themselves, or maybe even set up a 'build along' online course! By combining those you never have to go to the middle ground of 'okay' guitars where too many corners are cut.
Just a thought!
Hard to tell but, as a watcher, I follow your videos because of creativity, perfectionism, etc. I will not watch builds that follow a price point. You share your knowledge and we appreciate that Ben. That said, in a commercial point of view it's more difficult, while you can't loose money just for us.
Be yourself Ben, it's the point, I think :)
I am doing final mixes of all of the ‘singing ghost stories’ tracks so that I can master and finalise them so that I can release the album on the 1st of September. I have to get to a stage where I say ‘it’s good enough’. Otherwise it’s not coming out in time. As there is a wider project attached that can’t happen. So, sometimes you just have to stop. Just keep doing your thing. It’s all great.
Ben please never stop making guitars. As a profession Im a carpenter/joiner. I live in Jersey, Channel Islands. im trying to convince my wife it would be a good idea to let me escape her and our 3 wonderful daughters for a week so I can come and do your 6 day luthier course. Not sure on the possibility of that actually happening. So if you could do online courses that would be awesome. 🙌🏻
you deserve that week!
Amen. Ben please stick to your dream. You are an inspiration to many. I feel the same way. I have NO desire to make cookie cutter mass produced guitars. I also make hand made custom built guitars and have a very small business that is just starting and getting off the ground. I will make pairs of guitars and nothing more. Mainly so I can keep one. I follow my inspiration. It would kill my dream to make an assembly line guitar. I pour my heart and soul into my guitar builds, repairs, and restorations. This gives me the most happiness. Keep up the great and inspirational builds. Thank you.
I love piezo pickups, makes your electric guitar sound like an acoustic one! Very very interesting donor guitar, although it's almost more of a computer isn't it 😂
Some day if I find myself in the UK, it would be the greatest honor to be one of your students. Great job!
Wow, thank you!
I'll be giving you my thoughts in long form, as trying to relay them here- even if I post one of my infamous TLDR's- just won't do. Digging out my good writing paper and choosing which pen I need to use to write this one may take me a good half hour, but it will give me time to sort my thoughts a little more than I usually do before launching into it, full bore.
from my point of view, could it be, the top piezzo picking up the tremors from the copper shielding plate from the bottom, through the wire you cut at around 14:00 ish ?
in my hone build, i also only sawed out the circumference of the pickups from my guitartop, leaving the mounting unsawed from the front, and everything tucking in neatly from the back. looks so clean, and a huge reduction of saw-loss from the beautiful timber :)
Keep it up Ben, you're still doing awesome work :D
This is exactly the video I wanted, to understand the way the humbucker is mounted with adjustment from the back.
Glad to help.
@@CrimsonCustomGuitars Sure.
Ben, I think the offer of Online Interactive guitar courses would be a great option. I can't travel very much and have struggled many times to try and figure out how to get to one of your classes, but just couldn't make it happen. Having the option to work with your luthiers during and online class would be great. BTW, there are plenty of others giving good business advice so I won't repeat what others have already said, but having ADHD and possibly OCD can cause one to overly focus on things that are trivial. Maybe delegate the quality decisions or "good enough" responsibility to Tom or another person whom you trust implicitly. Good luck and I hope you figure out how to continue with Crimson. And like many others have stated, you are a role model, and I have learned so much from watching yours and other coworkers' videos.
It's my understanding that the acoustasonic guitars have essentially three pickup systems. The magnetic, piezo, and body sensor under the top that helps amplify the vibration of the top while playing. Meant to sound similar to playing an unamplified acoustic through an outboard or into a stage microphone.
I think you can do both. Fender has masterbuilt customs, and a wide range of off the rack models all the way down to Squires. I'm a guy who has a bunch of fenders from many price points. and I love them all. Do some have cosmetic flaws? sure. Does it bother me when I play? not really. As you say, the acoustasonic sounds great to you. There's a danger in over-egging the pudding. I think between the school and a potential line of "mass" produced models, I think there is still room for your own custom pieces. Definitely something I would aspire to own, but I'd also definitely buy an off the rack model too.
9:00 in: That PCB looks like Austin, Texas circa 1975. North is to the right, south to the left. The big silver part marks Town Lake.
Thanks for the teardown Bun thats gonna really help me with my current and future GGBO entries, what is the thickness of the wood in the back and the thickness of the covers please?
Your too good, and enjoy hand tools far too much to keep trying to make production guitars man, you will never be able to lower your standards enough. Expand the school, keep making the tools and keep helping us with teaching us how to build 🖤
Ben, it's about pride. Like you, I spend way too much time on my craft. I turn bowls, boxes and things on my lathe. I am trying to start a small business doing this. Fortunately I am retired and do not depend on the income from my craft. If I am "done" with an item but see a small defect, I have to go back and correct it. Sometimes this means totally re-sanding which as you know, takes time. The result is that when someone buys an item that I have crafted with my hands, I know they are purchasing the best that my hands can make. I know it is easy for me to say given my situation but I doubt you will be happy if you compromise your standards. Pride in ones craft is paramount in my opinion. Best to you.
That's not a guitar, it's an overgrown calculator in a wooden box. Ben, keep doing your thing - you rock at it.
I putting Fishman Fluence in my ggbo2023scratch build. Cant wait to hear them.
If you wish to make a more budget guitar, for me the neck is the most important to have right. The body, not as important. You can use CNC machine, skip a stage with your finish, not worry so much about inside the cavity and use 'budget' pickups (some very good uk manufacturers out there, I've tried a few). Use cheaper caps for your tone and cheaper pots.
This is fun!
Love this 👌
A little magic black box that did absolutely nothing has been done in automotive before. Pete Brock did it with General Motors. It was called the “energy polarizer”.
Yes! I was watching another one of your videos, a few years old I think? You mentioned online luthier courses, I inquired, you didn’t have anything on offer. Make this happen! Not sure how (Zoom, MSTeams?), but I would love to become a distance student.
I suspect it could be a good idea to hire a business consultant who is specialised in analysing the operations and finances of a small business to come and have a look and give you some ideas on how to optimise. You have a rather complex set of interrelated activities for a small enterprise, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot you could do to streamline things. I think there are four main areas where you can look: improving product quality, improving production efficiency, making cost savings and increasing your customer base (marketing / market penetration etc.). If you don't want the expense of hiring a consultant (although a good consultant should save you money overall), maybe you can brainstorm with your staff how to identify, say, three concrete actions in each of those areas (and you could break those down into short term / quick win, medium term and long term). Disclaimer: this is not my area of expertise, it's just a bit of business knowledge and common sense (I think!).
You and your team create wonderful things. I would probably take the time to spec out the costs of every part of a build, with cost of the most automated level, the most elevated level and some in between. The ability to do one offs and separately to do mass productions. Even simple stuff like what is the day cost to have someone put shielding paint on as many guitars as they can in a day. And then find your price points from there, and your brand red lines that you won't cost. As well as pricing your custom instruments as genuinely as possible.
*Red lines you won't cross
Some piezos transform pressure to an electric signal, and some piezos resond to bending. So by having a pressure sensitive piezo you can get the bare bones string sound, and by adding a bending mode piezo, you can blend in the sound coming from the bending of the top, caused by the vibrations, for a more acoustic sound. And then add magnetic pickup for more body.
The type of adhesive for the bending mode piezo will be critical, it needs to properly couple the top to the piezo. I wouldn't just use any old foam doublestick.
Also, from the point of longevity, direct mounted pots really aren't that bad, as tinned cables (used for connection to non-PCB mount pots) can break due to vibrations. On impact, you might crack a PC board, put the top is also cracked, and I don't think we'll be hearing advice on making guitars out of rubber any time soon 😀 Don't drop guitars.
Hey I wanted to chime in about the ladder part of the video and mind you, I am not an executive in the company, nor do I fully understand how they manipulate their prices, but I work for a high end prestigious bass company out of Chicago. They've been producing at the highest level for nearly 30 years and have had some of the greatest player on their roster.
That's all a long way of saying, keeping production in house while maintaining affordable prices is extraordinarily difficult. I can go into further detail in a PM, but the thing I've learned is not necessarily cutting corners, but limiting options. Have your super high end with all the bells and whistles, but also have models that are simplified in shape and limited in materials and finish options. We actually get away with selling our relics at nearly half the price that we sell our fully kitted out customs, just bc there is less work and materials needed on the finishing end of the process.
In short, there are options and ways to create various price points of your guitars, but unfortunately doing anything for around 1k or lower is not possible outside of Asian manufacturing.
Good luck and sorry for the excessively long comment. Hopefully it helps getting the wheels turning on your options.
I once heard a luthier tell an aspiring luthier what to do if demand were to pick up. Either hire other people who you know cannot build to your own exact standards, but so you can build more guitars, or raise prices so you can build only a limited number, but to your exact standards. I thought it was good advice. Also the one you said, that in order to have a successful business selling large numbers of product you have to know when and where to cut corners and when and where not.
As someone who owns both expensive custom guitars as well as mid-priced and budget mass produced guitars I think both have their place. It’s amazing when you open a case for the first time and therein lies an instrument that has been crafted with care, attention having been paid to the smallest details. But I also enjoy modifying, doing repairs, tinkering, finessing etc. and that’s something I don’t typically get to do a lot with high end guitars.
Of course cheaper guitars should still be functional and too many corners can’t be cut, most people buying them probably won’t be as interesting in fixing them up as I am and when you buy a guitar you should get an instrument that works pretty much out of the box, corners should be cut with cosmetic things, not with function.
If you can make enough money doing what feels right to you, I say that is a joyful thing. Cherish it, my friend, and have no regrets.
The problem for most people nowadays is that we are not content with enough - we feel we have to have more than enough.
I'm paraphrasing John Seymour I believe, tremendously wise person who researched old crafts and skills long outdated. His comments are worth living by.
Whatever you decide, keep making your superb creations!
There's good guitars and there's good business. Pulling off both of those disciplines would be a miracle without farming out one or the other and I guess you've always known that.
£1000 price point production models,uniqueish body designs built outside the UK.
Go full Solar but your line.
Get player signiture contracts,thats your custom shop.
Feature your other custom bulders.
Design your unique production guitar.
Great work keep it up 🤘
Ben, you should build guitars in whatever way makes you happy.
I would say keep your guitar building high end / low production. You obviously love it and I have to assume you and your family are well supported by the tool sales, video's, etc.. Unless my goal was to become very wealthy and support hundreds of employees I would be hard pressed to make the compromises required to do mass production. The attention to detail you give obviously brings you great satisfaction. On a side note, if you notice a 90 minute fix on a guitar, ask the client if they want it done, you don't need to give your time away either.
Hi Ben! Not gonna go on a whole monologue about capitalism, but what you have been doing with Crimson feels *right* în a way that none of the mass produced brands can even come close to matching. You build guitars, yes, but arguably the more important work you're doing is building community and genuine, intimate, personal relationships with the craft and the instruments themselves. I have been playing guitar for nearly 25 years now, and I've played in public, sure, but my relationship to this instrument is not something for the public eye, it's mine, profoundly so. You're the first craftsman I have seen that understands that fact and caters to it. I believe you are the aspirational figure here, not Fender, or Gibson, or Danelectro etc. We love them, we need them, we enjoy them, but we need Ben Crowe and Crimson as a benchmark for what they could be, and as teachers and motivators to pick them up and make them better ourselves, make them more in-line with the respect we have for the idea of our ideal instrument, and for ourselves. This is the way. ❤
I have a teleacoustasonic. Seeing that wodge of 3M foam sticky sat under that piezo makes me want to see what happens when I replace it with something a bit less spongy. Maybe it will make the sound brittle. Maybe it will add some "air" to the sound. I adjusted the electric pup and improved the balance of sound from where it was set so...Hmmm...
Yes Ben I’m having fun.
This was very interesting. The direct mounted pots seem like a bad idea... One of the things youre most likely to have to replace..
I'd love to buy one of your guitars. I'm subscribed because I'm waiting for the day you start producing Nebula's as a production run (poke poke). But the parts of the guitar that I would care about are the parts that I would engage with, or are important to it's usability. It feels like you make guitars to impress other luthiers, the same way that some guitar players write music to impress other guitarist. Eventually you need to stop writing for the guy at the back of the crowd with his arms crossed, and start writing for the people at the front of the crowd who want to dance, mosh, etc.
Or not, it's up to you. But the masses would love for you to make them dance!!
Consider putting on courses that teach "mass production" by doing just that. Students are supervised to use CNC etc. on instruments that will be sold to cover the companies costs. Then you can be your very own Crimson Custom Shop...
I think there is a market for mass-produced Crimson guitars. Especially if you let people know which corners are cut, and which parts you consider to be of lower quality.
Ben, I think there's another way to think about this. Another way of looking at it that re-channels your perfectionism. It's this: don't think about it as 'cutting corners'. Rather, frame it in terms of creating the best guitar possible for a particular price-point. Think about it as one of your challenges: how good a guitar can you make when you only have £X to spend on materials and Y amount of time for labour? Make a video (or 19!) about how you meet the challenge. The outcome will be perfect (or as close to perfect as you can get) in its own way. It won't be as good a guitar as one that costs thousands of pounds to make; but then, you can't sell that guitar for £500.
The whole idea of Fender guitars was making guitars that could be easily mass produced and easily fixed. Very handy for the working musician. They keep it simple and use whatever material comes across. Is it art? To me Fender guitars are like T-shirts. You use them, they wear down, you buy a new one. Handmade guitars are priceless. Every guitar is a moment in time of the maker. I say, do both. Make cheap but playable hip in electric car colour sell out guitars (like strats) aaaand make high end gorgeous madness that lasts a lifetime. Cheers🤘🏻😎
I take it you have read Guitar Lessons by Bob Taylor.
It's a different direction but a good insight into building a guitar business
G'day Ben,
Thanks for another great video. And for another great question. Since I am not invested in the Crimson Guitars business, as you are, I cannot tell you what you should do. However, I do empathize with your dilema, & have a response for you. Not too sure if it will help, though.
I started work as an apprentice motor mechanic, for a large national company in Australia. After many years, & many different positions, the company decided that they weren't really a fleet company, & asked me politely to leave. Whist I was working in the workshops, it occured to me that my part in the company was to maintain the company's image to the public, which is different to a mechanic's role in a small business, and that is to provide a level of service to the customer, in a manner that supports the business. In other words, they would take short cuts that I could not. Strangely enough, that never bothered me, & I like to think that I have benefitted from my training & attitude.
Currently, I am working in a bicycle shop, in Melbourne. I still work as best as I can, to provide a high level of service to the customer. But I always consider that I also have to provide the business owner with good value for the money he pays me. I know I take a bit longer to service a bicycle than others, but I also know that I am the only person in the bicycle industry (in our quarter of Melb) who can service & repair hydraulic brakes. It seems absurd to me that others either don't know, just muddle their way through it, or are willing to replace an entire system, when I (& most mechanics) learned how to repair similar systems in my 1st year as an apprentice. I guess that I know what I'm doing, whilst others don't know, & are often charging custommers 5 times the cost for their lack of knowledge.
I'm obviously not an artist, but I do have a trade. I do what I do, & don't worry too much about others. To help with your dilema, I think that you should always do what you do. You shouldn't worry if you spend an hour & a half repairing a guitar, free of charge - the owner knows what you've done. And they're greatful. If you want to do something different, then you will have to change how you do things. Either that, or you will have to employ someone to do things differently for you.
Anyhow, I thank you once again for a great video. I'm looking forward to the next kauri video. Keep up the good work.
Andrew
I think potentially you need to know where to 'stop' with Crimson branded guitars and then have a custom 'Built by Ben Crowe' line where you build to your limitless perfectionism but the price has a premium on top for the ridiculous amounts of labour and craftsmanship.
If you do not make this separation and continue with limitless labour/perfectionism, you risk damaging the company financially.
Lots of love and admiration from the Cardiff!
I personally think for what it's worth the old descendants were brilliant.
Now in the UK we have Gordon Smith producing brilliant instruments that have so many options but not full custom shop and often undercutting the big boys we've seen pjd etc but they have had problems (Gordon Smith just bought their machinary I believe).
Either go total one offs custom only and charge £10k since a production line LP Custom is about £5K now.
And/or do limit to-a-budget runs of models at say £3k or maybe target that £1k break point but that's now Epiphone Chinese etc factory level.
Be well and enjoy that's the main thing to me Ben.
Know your customers, listen to them intently, and deliver what they’re prepared to pay for!
Don’t try to compete on price with the big boys… you won’t be able to, and the business you and your team currently love will be irretrievably destroyed in the process.
Nurture your company culture, understand what your customers describe as value, and keep YT build videos coming 👍
A friend, owner of a small web company, once explained me that he was seeking for self "feeding" money so that he has more time to do what he likes or concentrating on quality where it matters (he was also looking for pipelines to fuel some charities).
Have you considered out-sourcing a production line of Crimson Guitars to Korea or Indonesia?? It could bring a level of accessibility to more of us with a lesser budget. It is a formula that seems to work with major brands. 💜💜💜💜💜💜 Sarah
Hi, just watched your excelent video, "Kauri vs Fender Acoustasonic Wiring.. I MAY be changing the Way I BUILD Guitars - Kauri Build #16", (can't wait for what comes next to see what you do with it), I'd just bought myself an American Jazzmaster the same colour as the subject in the video, and did the same as you did to see what was inside. I have to say I'm only a "Hobby" builder/repairer, thats mostly been driven buy being broke, and I'm not even a good guitar player but enjoy making stuff. I've built a few cheap copies of the Tele version of this acoustasonic series for friends and by No.9 they are quite playable :-). Up till recently I have used cheap Tele copies bought from Ebay as a donor source, routed them out usig a sled and fitted a book matched soundboard but for the next two I'm starting with a body blank that's 55mm thick rather than the usual 43mm just to see what it sounds like unplugged, non of the previous one's were that good untill plugged in, which kind of defeats the object. For the sound hole I used a Bass Reflex Tube, like in bass speakers, rather than Fenders wooden one and experimented with the length of the tube to get a better Bass response. I used a Hotrail Mag p/u, a standard under saddle piezo and a 35mm disk type p/u for the body, (the later fitted behind and above the bridge). The latest project "vero board" cicuit is pushing my knowledge to the limit... but I'm getting there. I think I'll wait till you make the video of the next step to see what you come up with, thats assuming your not going to put the Fishman stuff back in :-)
My wish for Crimson is that they develop a store front on Amazon.
What do I think? I think I wish I could afford your time. Even though I don't play, I would love to own an instrument with the creativity and craftsmanship I constantly see in your videos. So I guess what I think is don't compromise your standards. You are just not cut out to do mass production, and that is ok. There is nothing wrong with that.
Have you even enlisted a business mentor to have non biased look at the business? It may be very eye opening. Depending on the skill set of the mentor they may even offer some sensible, pragmatic advise of how and where the business can be improved.